If you talk to ANY woman or girl you know she'll have at least a couple (to say the least) stories about sexual harassment that happened to her.
For those who say sexual harassment isn't that big of a deal - you've obviously never been sexually harassed, because if you have been you would know that it's a direct attack on your person.
Before I get into my own experiences with sexual harassment, I have to address the guys who are going to complain about how I didn't mentioned them being harassed. Guys: if you've been harassed I encourage you to write your own article about your experiences! You'll find an audience in me as well.
But this article is about women, their everyday experiences with sexual harassment and my own experiences throughout the years.
Whether you've been shouted obscene, sexually explicit content, been groped on the subway, been asked for sex in exchange for a job opportunity, it's all the same - sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment that women suffer from men is more often than not due to a crisis in masculinity and a thirst for some kind of power and a desire to feel superior, even if it is achieved with such crude and undignified behavior and, more often than we'd care to admit, explicit sexual assault.
Does it ONLY count if you've done it to many women or does it also count if you've done it to one women once? I think we can all agree the latter is correct!
First off, when it comes to my experiences, I've been quite lucky. Of quite a few of these disturbing instances, I've always somehow gotten out unscathed! And I am thankful every day for it!
One of the first stories I can recall is when I was little, going to elementary school, a man around 40 years old used to ride the bus whenever the school was in session (school buses don't exist in my country). He'd come behind little girls, me as well, and push himself against our backpacks and wouldn't let us leave the bus. I was lucky because one of the older couples on the bus took my hand and escorted me out of the bus before my stop. I remembered the man and knew how to avoid him ever since.
One of my next stories is a typical one, one almost all women can connect to and say "Me Too - I've experienced the same thing"...
Once, when I was going to work using public transportation I felt a hand touching my bum. Obviously, I though it was a mistake because of the crowded bus, but when the man pressed himself up against me and squeezed my bum, that's when I knew for SURE that was no mistake and I felt horrified!
After turning around I saw he must've been around 35. Looking at this man straight in the eyes, I realized he was grinning...and knew it was just another day, another woman's personal space and body violated.
One of the most recent instances happened just the other day around noon when I was walking to the store.
I was in the super market getting groceries. I was wheeling quite a heavy cart around hoping to get some tomatoes before they were all out of season when an old man approached me. He was wearing a tight pair of jeans and a blazer which was, quite frankly, meant for someone at least 30 years younger than he was. He asked me are the paper towels I got in my cart any good. I say yes, obviously... (why else would I get them) and I thought that would be that. He, however, took my response as an invitation to ask me personal questions and to comment on my looks - my face and my body. He said I looked beautiful and would I mind if he called me 'Beautiful'. I said that I very much would mind, that it's inappropriate and if he'll excuse me I have other errands to run. His old hand held on to my cart and wouldn't let me leave. I considered just leaving all of those things and just getting out of there, but I wasn't quite yet panicked enough, so I decided I might just reason with him to leave me alone. He asked me would I go for coffee with him or maybe a beer. I said I had a lot of work to do and couldn't, nor am I particularly interested either. He didn't look offended, he just kept pushing. He came closer to me and grabbed my arm squeezing it pretty tightly. I let go of the cart and ripped my hand from his, speedily walking away. He kept following me, so I though it best not to leave the super market but inform a worker there of the incident. The register was packed and I didn't see any other workers but the ones behind the cash registers, so I hurried there. I didn't want to look panicked so I didn't run. I just stood in line of the cash register between two people who were there hoping the old man couldn't see me. When I came up to the employee I warned him about the old man and the employee called one of the other workers of the store to check things out while the third employee escorted me out. I don't know what happened after that, but I know I'm not the first, nor the last woman on that old man's list...and I'm afraid not all women are as lucky as I.
If you're a feminist (in the true, egalitarian, sense of the word) you're more than aware of the little run of small cruelties and humiliations that women all experience! By Emma Thompson
I am 100% that 100% of women have experienced something like this in their lives. All of them have at least one story to tell, but more likely, the number of experiences vary, but they're never zero...
When will come a time when a woman can feel secure walking home from work at night? Not just at night, but at any time of day!? When will women be able to do all the things that they should feel free and safe to do no matter the time of day or the clothing they wear?
No, it really doesn't matter what your intentions were, no it really doesn't matter whether you were going for a laugh or you seriously just wanted to terrify the woman standing in front of you. No, it doesn't matter if you wanted to feel power over a person weaker than you, it doesn't matter if you had a bad day, it doesn't matter if you were harassed too when you were a child. There is no excuse for this behavior and it has to stop!
I am, must admit, very vigilant in my everyday life and I strive to keep my eye on the kids on buses to speak out and intervene if something is happening that shouldn't be. I think the world would be a better place if we all did that for one another.
The more women report these things, the more people get involved, the safer the world will be from sexual predators!
Silence in these instances won't help the bottom line, it'll promote the agony, promote the unhealthy behaviors. Turning a blind eye is a thoroughly harmful notion, your eyes and the eyes of all those around you should be wide open and their mouths ready to speak out!
The only way to beat this is by saying something - if you SEE something, SAY something!
While it is true that men are often the recipient of sexual harassment, I've noticed that the same dudes on here who are lightning quick to tell you women don't understand what it's like to be a man are the same ones who immediately dismiss what women say about what it's like to be a woman.
Anyway, I've had an ex boss try to kiss me in a private meeting, and a former employee who repeatedly tried to get me to sleep with her even though I made it clear I wasn't interested and also I was married.
My wife once had a coworker who "accidentally" touched her boobs too many times and a boss who gave her unsolicited shoulder rubs and even ran his fingers through her hair. She punched him in the face and got fired for it.
A couple of years ago, I was at a conference party with a female colleague and she told me she had to go to the bathroom but there was a couple of guys from another company in the way who kept being handsy every time she got close to them. Another guy we work with and myself ended up escorting her to the bathroom and then back to her hotel.
So, I have no problem believing that women have to deal with this on a regular basis.
Some of these guys seem to think that in order to prove it happens to guys too they have to disprove that it happens to women. Or at least not as much. You often see them state "Men are most often the victim of violent crime like muggings and murder etc" which is going totally off topic and derailing the conversation since other types of crime aren't even a part of the discussion. Men are sexually harassed too but these guys seem more concerned with trying to point out examples of sexism toward males than deal with the actual issue.
@Nyx_85 Eh, it is GAG - lots of fearful people here. I think most of them just haven't ever been put in a position where they have to discuss real issues in an adult way. Sometimes because they aren't actually adults, and other times because their mind just never caught up.
@redeyemindtricks No - the next day, her ex-boss's supervisor gave her the job back, fired the guy and apologized. She said "no thanks" and went somewhere else.
Very good myTake. Unfortunately I am one of these unlucky women and many times I was afraid to say something... Now I am trying to work on my assertiveness and I promised myself I would never let someone humiliate me!
That was a good read. I think the bottom line is this: Tackle the issue head on; report harassment, and if you witness it, step up and do something (like the couple on the bus).
Personally, I remember being "sexually harassed" once when I was in college a long time ago. I got "catcalled" by a couple of college-aged girls while while they drove by while I was out jogging on afternoon. I thought it was funny (as in comedic haha funny). I of course would draw the line at that.
However, on a more serious note, a lot of what was being mentioned here when sexual harassment becomes physical, it amounts to battery in a legal sense.
Now for my brethren who have never been sexually harassed or at least don't think it's a big deal, think about this: How would you feel if a female loved one had a similar, or even worse experience that what was mentioned here? What if it was your friend, significant other, sister, mother, or daughter who gets harassed? What would you do? How would you feel?
If you see someone being harassed or persecuted each of us has a moral obligation to intervene.
As for my sisters, learn to defend yourselves. I don't mean exclusively physically. People who prey on others are bullies and when they pick on you it's because they perceive you as being weak. As men, we are conditioned by society to fight back, and I think that may be a deterrent for both men and women from sexually harassing men. It's like playing football with a small cactus; sure you can do it, but you will get hurt. One disadvantage is that men are significantly more victimized by violent crime than women, and I think that is because we are considered a more "dangerous" target that require more violence to be subdued.
Of course physical confrontation may be difficult if someone with no physical self defense training is being sexually harassed by someone who is much bigger and stronger.
I can't say for certain how big a problem this following thought is, but I feel that society tends to defend victims who are sexually harassed by men, but not so much when the perpetrator is a woman. From a legal standpoint, both are equally liable, but there is a double standard in most societies in my personal opinion.
This could have gone in many bad ways, and i am very sick of 'The girl that cried rape' blurring the lines between flirting, sexual harassment and rape. Luckily the examples in your take are very valid but its good to define what makes them valid hence my comment here. The trend i observe here is not that guys made a comment that made you feel uncomfortable which to me is a very blurry line, the valid trend i see here is that guys did not allow you the space to leave. Thats where the line is crossed in my opinion. An individual should have the rights over there own body and what you are allowed to do with it. Blocking that body from leaving an area or a conversation is not a right thing to do especially if you are trying to force your will on the person while you restrict them of leaving.
I can see this as coming across very powerful and intimidating towards a girl for sure, and no girl should have to experience it. But lets never get catcalling be put on the same line as this. We don't want to make these actual harassment scenario's have less meaning.
Thanks for writing the take from the right perspective :)
The best thing women can do is take some sort of self defense class and if you you have children may it be boys or girls to make it a family thing.
Unfortunately there will always be men that will sexually harass or abuse women and there is no way of stopping this. It was only a few days ago I was in my office and part of my job requires me to wear protective clothing that makes me look different and a male co-worker calls over "I didn't recognise you with all your clothes on" then wolf whistled. This was a loud incident and everyone in the office could hear him. I came back with a quirky comeback but yes this is a form of sexual harassment.
In the old days I owned a public house and there was a "grab" corridor where regular customers all men would try grab any woman as they walked past and in once incident I hit a 70 year old man grabbing my bum as I walked past it was reflex and yes he did deserve it!
You can't change the people in the world around you, you can only modify yourself
well written take. You're very brave for writing this, because most people here don't like these kind of topics. The most sad part is, because of these incidents, women try to protect themselves by never walking alone in the dark, not-crowdy places, not trusting strangers, never travel alone, not looking at people in public, not laughing out loud or attracting too much attention to yourself, cover yourself up with clothing and take self-defense classes to protect yourself. These all add up to some sort of isolation and make the world smaller. I read an article about this recently and a professor in sexuality at the AMC says that the judgement of men towards other men is more important than the judgement from women to men. So I think it's important that men can also send a message with 'it's not cool to catcall'.
Disclaimer for my opinion: I'm not saying men never experience this. I'm not saying men are all monsters. I'm not saying that the importancy of judgement from men to men is sexist and I'm not saying that men never have to adjust themselves in public to protect themselves either.
If you want to give your own story, even as a male. Write your own take, tag me in it and I will gladly read it and give my opinion on it.
Oh shoot.. And silly me here thought, men as young as myself putting their life on the line and going out to protect one's country is brave. But i guess writing "MyTakes" on a website called "GirlsAskGuys" is considered brave these days. How stupid of me.
All of the harassment stories or instances that you point out are by old men or a perve child molester so really this is just about the dregs and the undesirable to you that are subhuman. I am a guy that women tend to pursue and maybe I should start whining and screaming about harassment and write a damn take about it but nobody would read it because of the reverse sexisim. But you don’t have to concern yourself with someone like me because I avoid women and look the other way and a few more stories like this maybe shun them off if the approach me and ask me out. And then we hear “Where have all the good men gone?”… “how come men don’t approach women anymore?”…”is it just me or do men not ask women out anymore?”. Woman up! Everyone has had some creepy ass experiences or mortal enemy people stories to tell. Don’t even get me started on being raped/molested by a woman at 13, having my hs teacher hit on me at 16, some old horrid bitch think she was going to pick me up and start grabbing me, and the stories go on. Whatever happened to real women that could handle real life?
You were "lucky?" As if he was going to violently assault you or something. I think you're jumping the gun. I think it's more accurate to say you're unlucky to have gotten that far. This is not the norm, which is why you can even tell the story.
"woman can feel secure walking home" Just women? Doesn't matter what men feel? Women are *demonstrably* safe walking home at night, sooo... They are safe no matter what they wear.
Yes, it does matter what your intentions were it's called 'mens rea' *and* what you did, especially in the social landscape where you're trying to navigate a subjective realm where you want to get close to people but don't know how they're necessarily going to react to you.
If there was a different woman in that store then maybe she would have liked the things he said and it all would have gone more positively, who knows. Not that criminal behaviour isn't a problem that should be addressed but your experiences are not authoritative and can't be applied to the whole of a population.
If I'm walking down the street at night and a woman crosses the road because she's scared of me, then that Is *entirely* on her. It's not me that being scary, it's *her* that is making me scary.
I've literally never done anything like sexual harassment or seen anyone else do it, so I don't know what more there is to say.
Uh no sorry that old man WAS being a creep. He grabbed her and followed her after she made it clear she wasn't interested. If you can't see the issue with this you should not date because you lack important social skills.
@Nyx_85 Didn't say he wasn't being creepy then, I said it might now have gotten to that point if *a different woman* liked the things he said. But it doesn't really matter if he was being creepy. It does matter in the sense that people should ideally get along perfectly, not commit crimes, amass excessive wealth or whatever else, but it doesn't matter in the sense that it's not like anyone thinks getting grabby and all that jazz that is okay. All these concerns you have like walking home at night blah blah blah are not really valid to complain about in the context of how it affects women.
Wow you are being delusional and in denial. No some people DO think getting grabby is ok. And no woman around her age is going to be into an old man hitting on her. Sure they may try to be as polite as possible but that's it.
@Nyx_85 WHile There's always some exception, it's not an accepted behaviour to get grabby in western society so there's little more to say about it. In Saudi they have male guardians, different sections in restaurants and what not specifically for single men so they stay separated from women. In Saudi they might cut your hand off for touching a women, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure it's not comparable to any western country (that isn't full of Muslim immigrants). I think everyone has problems in Saudi, but you don't get to claim their problems or victimization as your own and neither will I.
Again, there maybe a younger woman that is okay with it (we don't even know the guy's age btw) you don't speak for all. But okay, she wasn't into it, it's an awkward moment, these things happen. But whatever, even if there isn't a woman who would be into it, it doesn't matter. We don't fault people for just speaking to one another. Getting grabby is the only *real* problem here.
@Nyx_85 Also, I don't need to be a woman to understand that you're relatively safe walking home at night. Being a guy may even help me understand it better.
" I think everyone has problems in Saudi, but you don't get to claim their problems or victimization as your own and neither will I."
Jesus Christ where did you get THAT idea from? I meant that Australia is supposed to be more progressive.
No most people know that sexual assault isn't ok. Even many of those who commit it know this (or else why would they try to cover it up and lie?) HOWEVER you seem to be making the assumption that when she says women are harasseed at some point she means all men are harassers. First off a degree of harassment isn't just from men but other women as well (some lesbians can be awfully aggressive) but NO that isn't what she is saying. Men and women who sexually harass others typically make a pattern out of it. They do it repeatedly. They may be less than the majority of the population but they just do it often enough that it makes a difference. Nobody if calling YOU a predator. RELAX!
And no the issue wasn't that he talked to her. It's that he grabbed her after she turned him down. And I'm not sure what she meant by 'old' but I'm imagining someone at least 60.
@Nyx_85 It is more progressive... so? What's your point?
Not all men no, but it's like we're being made out to be complicit. Like there's some systemic problem. There's literally nothing to be done about that guy, assault is illegal, talking to people isn't, and getting grabby is either illegal or inappropriate depending on what's going on so I don't see what there is to change. The reason this really gets my goat is that I'm seeing it constantly, just endless complaint about sexual assault against women as if it's the worst thing that's going on in society. It's the being safe on the streets at night and the clothing choice thing as well, it doesn't make sense to me to complain about them. Women are not perpetual victims.
"And no the issue wasn't that he talked to her. It's that he grabbed her after she turned him down. And I'm not sure what she meant by 'old' but I'm imagining someone at least 60" That's what I said. "Old" isn't a number. so I'm not just going to assume a number.
Ok I'm sorry for thinking that because you are from Australia you'd have any idea about the things I'm talking about. My bad.
"Not all men no, but it's like we're being made out to be complicit."
Ugh see THAT is what I'm talking about. Nobody here said that.
Look lots of women get harassed and assaulted. Most don't even talk about it openly but when women do talk about it you act like it's a personal attack. No it's not. They are just sharing their experiences. Experiences many people are afraid to share because they are worried about how others will react. It may not be intentional but by deflecting like this and acting like this is somehow a war against men you are belittling their experiences. No women aren't perpetual victims but you know what helps a person get away from victim status? Not hiding. Don't make people hide. Abusers keep their victims isolated because they know that's how you keep someone down. People (men and women) who share their stories are healing!
@Nyx_85 Not telling anyone to hide. On the contary I'm telling people to be honest.
"Nobody here said that." Well who's copping the blame then? Who's responsibility is it to make "women feel safe at night," I'm saying this dude in the store acting inappropriately. An individual acting on their own that has been denounced. Isn't that the end of the story? What do you actually want? As an example, what do you actually think about the title?
What the writer was talking about was that people shouldn't ignore this nor should they 'turn a blind eye' if they see something. She was trying to help people to realize it's not uncommon.
Yet certain people like to act like sexual harassment is this incredibly rare phenomenon and that admitting it's not is about placing blame. You place blame on those who perpetrate these acts. If you aren't one of those perpetrators you have nothing to worry about. People like you act like women are running around blaming all men when most of us DON'T believe that. We just want to be taken seriously.
My guy friend made a fake online profile pretending to be a woman. He got a lot of sexually explicit and harassing messages and sexual photos. He was shocked. He said "Yeah I've heard from chicks that this crap happens but I just figured you were exaggerating. I mean I would never do that."
"I WOULD NEVER DO THAT"
See there's the problem. You hear about an issue like this and you automatically think about yourself when it has nothing to do with you.
When we ignore and don't support each other and don't allow a platform for those to come forward... When stories like this are met with negative backlash.. then we are ALL to blame. Because we are not joined as a society.
Here's something to burst your bubble... "In 2008, it was estimated 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, according to the Department of Justice figures. "
The National Crime Victimization Survey turned up a remarkable statistic. In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men. https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245
According to Rainn, there are 213,000 victims of sexual assault in the US every year. More than 9/10ths of those victims are women and girls. The numbers Rainn uses come from the DOJ National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). The NCVS, though, is clear that its methodology for gathering sexual assault stats is pretty limited, and probably doesn't present a 100% accurate picture of what victims experience. www.theguardian.com/.../us-more-men-raped-than-women
Now obviously, rape is terrible and sexual harassment is terrible. To say, "Being a Woman Means Being Sexually Harassed" is just as ignorant as saying Being a Man Means Being Sexual Predators" This isn't the Middle East. Now have a good day Madam!
"When will come a time when a woman can feel secure walking home from work at night? Not just at night, but at any time of day? When will women be able to do all the things that they should feel free and safe to do no matter the time of day or the clothing they wear?" - When will come a time when anyone can feel secure walking home, without fear of getting robbed or getting hit by a drunk driver? When will we ALL be free to do all the things that we should feel free and safe to do, no matter the time of day, or the clothing they wear, or which opinions we have? You need to realize we live in a dangerous world and stop being angry at it and adapt. Learn how to protect yourself, you can't expect beasts to behave like men, but you can learn how to defend yourself and others... Learn self defense, also tasers and pepper sprays are quite effective, but only if you're not afraid to actually use them, and if you really learn how to use them... But the best is naturally if you have someone stronger with you who can protect you...
@ThatonehO well the point I tried to make was not that you should rely on becoming able to protect yourself, even the strongest man on the Earth could be defeated by 2 nearly as strong other men. You can never reach the level of self protection that would save you from any harm... And that road (of increasing that level) very is long and tiresome... You as a woman, no matter how hard you train, would probably never reach the strength of an average physically active male. And abusers know that, and will always attack girls who are alone. On the other hand, if you're with, for example your brother, or a male friend, they would almost never approach you.
Well frankly most women don't have the ability to have a "personal bodyguard" with them at all times. So it's really just a useless comment that continues to enforce the belief that women are helpless, which turns women away from adapting. 🤷♀️
Maybe this will help. I've seen a lot of people on here putting MGTOW down but MGTOW is changing those situations by eliminating such possibilities through steering men away from women altogether and some of the reasons do include for example a screen shot that was shared just the other day. In this screen shot there was a couple of comments made between to girls. The first girl, she told about a unattractive guy approaching her to ask her out. In her response to him she was very rude to him according to her and she was referring to him as sexually harassing her by asking her out. And then the other she replied with her advice to the first girl by suggesting she should have called the police on the guy for asking her out. The girls pictures were real and their comment were real. Bottom line is you probably won't have to worry about your situation much longer because MGTOW is pretty much on fire right now growing rapid rate each and every day and it includes teens all the way up to men in their 70's and so on. I don't know, maybe that's a bit good news for you or encouraging news. And yes I am also MGTOW by default because I haven't as much as touched anyone in over 30 years.
That doesn't really help anything because sexual predators will still be out there. Sexual predators often already have relationships or are married. The situation you are talking about is totally different from ACTUAL sexual harassment and assault. A guy asking a chick out isn't harassment. Doesn't matter how creeped out she is. Him groping her or following her or attacking her after she rejects him is. The only real issue that separating men and women is going to fix is that people who shouldn't be in relationships will learn how to hopefully be happy alone. But the thing is no matter how YOU feel most people don't want to be alone. It's unnatural. Men and women were made to compliment each other, not to compete.
I'd bet anything that at least 75-90% of MGTOW would turn their back in it if they felt the system was fair and if they found their ideal partner.
I'm also willing to bet a chunk of MGTOW are autistic. This is nothing against anyone but dating tends to be quite hard for many autistic men so I don't think this is beyond the realm of possibility. I'm also not saying one must be autistic to be into this. Just saying I can see some of those guys finding solice in it after having a lot of issues socializing with women.
@Nyx_85 I haven't found that to be true. Most men like myself, found it impossible to associate with women that didn't or don't want to be associated with. We are tired of being punching bags for society, the system, and women alike. And no, we don't hate women at least 99.999% of us don't, anyway. However we find ourselves on a impossible path with women. There is no satisfying women and women have a advantage over men in nearly every way, what women want, women get. What pertains to men however especially when it comes to society, family, and system with its biased laws and punishments against men, those things don't pertain equally to women. We MGTOW men we clearly acknowledge the biasness, we are not blind. We have walked away and it's that simple I did over 31 years ago long before MGTOW even had a title. I still find women attractive that will never change, I like younger women I don't care who cares and I go to my favorite places like Twin Peaks and I leave the way I arrive.
@Nyx_85 Continued. As I pointed out in a earlier comment, the two women conversation, this is real it's not a joke and this is what men face today. Men can no longer voice their comment to a women girl whatever that it's not seen as offensive. And keep in mind now while men have been trying hard to give women positive attention against their own odds such as like bashfulness, rejection, and self dignity, to show their interest in women rather it be sexual interested attraction or however it is perceived, women have summed up nearly everything men have tried to break the ice with as offensive such as cat calling etc. Instead of women seeing cat calling as a man's way of trying to break the ice, it's seen as offensive. Never mind that the man stuck his neck out trying to let her know he's interested, never mind the man gave her the attention he secretly longed for himself down inside what has spoiled her in every way, never mind any and all man's efforts, never mind the man.
Your view is premise for a very valid take - I think I said somewhere that social change doesn't happen overnight but as the result of thousands of events that keep the issue in the spotlight - So it has to be kept in the public eye until whatever the current percentage that think it is okay is reduced to close to zero - Society has to change its attitude to it like for example discriminatory laws were normal in parts of the US with separate schools for whites and non whites etc in the 1950s because it was just "the way things were " now it would not be tolerated.
Where I live, this kinda thing just doesn't happen. I've had guys flirt with me and ask me out, sure, but the only time I had a guy touch my boobs or butt on purpose was a guy that was trying to pick a fight with me. The rest of the time was just being run into or pushed into. The times that guys do flirt with me I just respond with, 'Sorry, I'm a lesbian.' If they don't believe me, I show them my sketchbook, where I have many draws of my girlfriend and me kissing her as well as just generally girls kissing, hugging, etc.
(I don't count perverted comments and flirting as sexual harassment.)
Ehem. I am a girl, and I do not have any stories about sexual harassment to tell lol. Neither me nor my bestfriend do. Does that mean that we are less female in your opinion? Or are most of the girls who are saying this already taking a simple hello from a guy as a sexual harassment?
It just means you have not experienced it. Do you ever feel warier in social situations, on the subway train, at night walking down a lonely city street? That would be the collective female pain-body that has accumulated over the centuries. Think about it. Men have been abusing and raping women since the dawn of time. HOWEVER, is it always better to not identify with your emotions and pain, but to watch them, expose them, and to be present at all times and take things as they come. Live in the now rather than the collective female past.
@freakyzeaky well, there are also females which had raped or abused men so what? Are we all supposed to be afraid of the other gender and ran away screeming every time we see someone from it? I dont say that it isn't a horrible experience to get raped or abused, it sure is and people who suffered from it need help and time to get over it. But in my opinion it is not the reason to assume everyone to be a rapist and every contact to be sexual harassment...
Oh, I agree completely. All I am saying is that this pain has been accumulating over millennia. To let go of this inherited past and live in the moment is what I think all people, both men, and women, should strive for.
Being aware is fine, but making it into your identity like some feminists do? That is far from healthy.
Yes, women deal with more sexual harassment. But they also receive much BETTER treatment than men in many situations. Men are also the biggest victims of violent crime. So at least statistically, the streets are more dangerous for men than for women. For a boy, being bullied doesn't mean people gossiping behind your back, it means getting beat up. And boys are still very much at risk from sexual harassment and assault by gay men.
I've been beat up, fondled and sexually harassed before. The difference is that if I complain about it, no one will care. It's terrible that such harassment happens to women every day but at least their complaints are taken seriously. We certainly don't live in a "rape culture" where predators like Harvey Weinstein go unpunished. He has already lost everything over this and the criminal cases against him haven't even begun yet. Sex crimes can go under the radar for years but once they become known, society takes them very seriously.
Yes it's awful that harassment towards men isn't generally taken seriously but you are mistaken if you think it's always taken seriously for a woman. We still get accused of lying and crap constantly. There wouldn't be such an argument regarding this issue if we weren't. I've seen many friendships torn apart because sexual assault. Also women are GENERALLY (not always) more likely to be supported of males that has been harassed. It's more often other men that make things difficult. By acting like a guy isn't a 'real man' or is gay if assaulted. Even men who are assaulted can have doubts about their masculinity and so forth. And it's not considered 'manly' to need help. You could offer support but if enough men won't take it then it's pointless. Especially when most help centres, shelters etc are government funded. You have to change attitudes first.
@Nyx_85 It's of course not surprising that a woman would be accused of lying by the person she's accusing. But in the court of public opinion, the "burden of proof" really seems to be on the man to vigorously assert and prove his innocence. Guys have been summarily expelled from college based solely on one girl's word which later turned out to be false. Being accused of mistreating women is very serious. The cases where women are disbelieved at first tend to be those where the man is a known important figure and the women are relative unknowns. Like no one wanted to believe Bill Cosby, "America's dad", was a sex offender! When that scandal first broke, my friend was defending him and I was the one saying 50 women can't be wrong. But if the genders were reversed -- like if Oprah were accused of impropriety by some random anonymous guy, we'd all rush to believe her and disbelieve him. That's what happened in cases brought against Paula Abdul and Britney Spears by non-celebrity men.
I don't dispute that way too many men are unsupportive and even mocking of other men being harassed and assaulted. When a female teacher rapes a boy, it's assumed that the boy wanted it. When Britney Spears behaved just like Harvey Weinstein towards a male employee -- repeatedly flashing her private parts and summoning him to her room when she was naked, looking for sex -- that employee was widely ridiculed and called gay for rebuffing her. Now the incident has been mostly forgotten and had no impact at all on Britney's career or reputation.
I've experienced and seen other women being disbelieved. It's common where I'm from. My uncle is also an ex crown prosecutor turned judge and he can attest to the way that many alleged sexual assault victims are treated by the system. Yes it's better than it was years ago but it is nowhere close to perfect. There are still many times that law enforcement automatically disbelieves claims. They aren't SUPPOSED to impose their personal opinion but my uncle says it happens more than you'd think.
My friend was raped by her ex in spite of even police saying it was clearly rape the judge dismissed the case because in his 'opinion' you can't rape someone you are in a relationship with. This is not some third world country with backwards laws. This is Canada.
Yes men are ridiculed when they come forward but to assume that coming forward is going to be a walk in the park for anyone is just somewhat misguided.
Usually it happens because they think the guy being accused is too 'nice' to do something like that.
Unless it was some creep jumping out from behind bushes or a thug beating her half to death most people don't want to believe that a nice seemingly normal individual could commit such an act. People say things like "But you weren't injured" and "Don't accuse him because you regret your choices" and "I don't believe it. He's such a sweet guy" etc. From what I've seen it's only a handful of individuals that are actually supportive in a social group. And besides social groups just look at comments online when a regular case pops up. A LOT call that person a liar. Yeah they get support but it's barely even that. It's just people arguing with those accusing them of lying and making it political. That's not really support.
@Nyx_85 Women are people and therefore quite capable of lying and making false accusations, as all flawed human beings are. If you believed in true equality, you would insist that women NOT be automatically believed. Nor should they be automatically disbelieved. Our justice system is supposed to be "blind" and only consider the evidence. That is what women's rights crusaders can't stand. "How dare you treat women as though they were anyone else and expect them to prove their case? Victims should always be believed!" Sorry but just taking someone at their word because they wear a dress is not fair treatment.
@Nyx_85 Lol. That's what someone says when confronted with an argument they can't refute. They get flustered and walk off. Doctrine and emotionalism don't stand much chance against reason and truth.
No you are making assumptions and jumping to conclusions about what I mean without even really reading what I wrote. I do not want to waste my time with someone who does that. It's annoying.
I NEVER ONCE said a woman claiming sexual assault should be believed NO MATTER WHAT and that men should have their name dragged through the mud...
I meant that I have SEEN social groups TURN AGAINST chicks who came forward with accusations of sexual assault. Be really nasty to her. Even if you don't believe her it's up to the legal system to find out what happened. Not you. If you don't believe her then FINE but no reason to be nasty to her. If it's PROVEN she did lie (which by the way lack of evidence isn't the same as lying) then by all means judge her. Because that is VERY VERY VERY wrong.
But no I'm not saying always believe her. I'm saying let the justice system deal with what happened. I've seen women become suicidal over how they are treated by their friends and the community here.
Sexual assault is an awful thing. Most of us know it's wrong. However I think we are typically so disgusted by it that's it's often easier for us to believe it didn't happen. Plus people are inherently good right? Only the truly depraved and mentally sick would ever think of doing such acts and no way is my friend, brother/sister/ father/mother, coworker, boss, significant other etc like that...
^ A family had their house burned down because people in their community thought their daughter was a liar. Another girl killed herself because of the abuse from her peers. How harsh is that?
"That's what someone says when confronted with an argument they can't refute. They get flustered and walk off."
Another thought popped up. Ok dude think of it this way. Imagine you asked me "Do you prefer dogs or cats?" and I said "Well I love BOTH but if I HAD to pick only one. Like I was being forced to... I would choose cats" and you come back saying "You hate dogs! You awful nasty dog hating low life!" and I respond with "Ok this conversation is pointless..." it's because I know your reading comprehension is off and therefore the conversation is INDEED pointless. I'm not giving up because I can't refute anything. I'm giving up because I honestly feel talking to someone like this is a waste of my time. Get it?
Unless we are dealing with things like science, math and what not most human things involve emotions. Having an attack against our bodies, our minds, our characters etc are emotional. We are emotional beings. Even science has shown we are more emotional and less logical than we think.
I love the title "being a women means being sexually harassed".
Yes, I admit, I sexually harassed a woman. Yup, I am a pig as I gave in to her repeated sexual innuendos and eventually responded with a joke that was on the more racier side, without being vulgar.
Well, it was all a trap as she simply wanted to get me to that point and then go berzerk on me for sexually harassing her, tell me how much of a scum I am and that "all this needs to stop". Some people are out of their mind.
Check out the images I have attached to this post. They are taken from "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. I believe they are very relevant to this discussion.
How to be present and expose the pain-body? Tolle suggests:
"Yes. Make it a habit to ask yourself: What's going on inside me at this moment? That question will point you in the right direction. But don't analyze, just watch. Focus your attention within. Feel the energy of the emotion. If there is no emotion present, take your attention more deeply into the inner energy field of your body. It is the doorway into Being."
AND
"An emotion usually represents an amplified and energized thought pattern, and because of its often overpowering energetic charge, it is not easy initially to stay present enough to be able to watch it. It wants to take you over, and it usually succeeds -- unless there is enough presence in you. If you are pulled into unconscious identification with the emotion through lack of presence, which is normal, the emotion temporarily becomes "you".
"So do not use the pain-body to give you an identity. Use it for enlightenment instead. Transmute it into consciousness. One of the best times for this is during menses. I believe that in the years to come, many women will enter the fully conscious state during that time. Usually, it is a time of unconsciousness for many women, as they are taken over by the collective female pain-body. Once you have reached a certain level of consciousness, however, you can reverse this, so instead of becoming unconscious you become more conscious."
"When you know that the menstrual flow is approaching, before you feel the first signs of what is commonly called premenstrual tension, the awakening of the collective female pain-body, become very alert and inhabit your body as fully as possible. When the first sign appears, you need to be alert enough to "catch" it before it takes you over."
"For example, the first sign may be a sudden, strong irritation or a flash of anger, or it may be a purely physical symptom. Whatever it is, catch it before it can take over your thinking or behavior. This simply means putting the spotlight of your attention on it. If it is an emotion, feel the strong energy charge behind it. Know that it is the pain-body. At the same time, be the knowing; that is to say, be aware of your conscious presence and feel its power. Any emotion that you take your presence into will quickly subside and become transmuted. If it is a purely physical symptom, the attention that you give it will prevent it from turning into an emotion or a thought. Then continue to be alert and wait for the next sign of the pain-body. When it appears, catch it again in the same way as before."
"Remember: Do not let the pain-body use your mind and take over your thinking. Watch it. Feel its energy directly, inside your body. As you know, full attention means full acceptance."
Women always make everything about women. Men get sexually harassed as well, but nobody says shit about it because they expect men to suck it up. Actor Terry Cruise was sexually harassed, and a lot of other men are sexually harassed daily.
We get sexually harassed all the time but we don't kick up a stink because we aren't little shits out to antagonize someone. We just cope with it. But what really gets out of hand is the drama surrounding the incident, more so than the incidents themselves, and men don't want that cause exasperates everything to unreasonable levels but we sometimes get caught up in it.
Yea no it's actually quite false and stereotypical. With rare exceptions women you talk to typically haven't been harassed. And ofcourse the typical sexist propaganda that all men are harassers, and women should be believed with no proof is quite literally trying to turn the justice system into a modern day witch hunt.
@genuinlysensitive I don't think that this myTake is offensive to anyone. She didn't say that all men are harassers. We just can't ignore the facts. She also mentioned men being hurt/harassed, so it is not that only men do that.
@genuinlysensitive No it's not rare. Almost every female I've known has been harassed in some way and they have stories of other girlfriends that were harasseed. And no I don't know EVERY female on this earth but given what I do know I highly doubt it's 'rare'. Also if it was rare the statistics would be much lower. Even if they are only an estimate since the majority don't report sexual harassment. Also a lot of women either won't admit to being harassed or they sweep things under the rug because that's easier. Sometimes they are unsure if it even was harassment. Like a date gets aggressive and really pushes for sex even when she protests but she gives in and thinks "Well it was a bit too soon but we probably would have done it eventually so it's ok" This has happened to a lot of women I know and most of them do not call it assault. In our society we see sexual assault as someone jumping out from behind the bushes and beating us half to death. Or by some guy we aren't interested in.
@genuinlysensitive And no offense but you aren't a woman (just like I'm not a man so I don't pretend to know stuff I don't know) so for one you haven't experienced stuff a lot of women go through. You also aren't in on the girl talk. You don't hear the things we talk about in private.
While the social convention is that the male is supposed to make the approach, this sort of thing will be unavoidable. Some men will be scumbags. Some men will be socially inept and leave women feeling harassed, when that was not their intention. I plead not guilty. During the past 16 years I have approached one woman, who rejected me. I walked away.
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