Equal Pay Is Bad Even For Women. Why This Must Not Be Part Of Public Policy.

Equal Pay Is Bad Even For Women. Why This Must Not Be Part Of Public Policy.

Yes, I know this will piss some people off. Of course organizations should be forced to pay women the same compensation as men you say? You are not even supposed to discuss this question because the thought police forbid it. But before getting your hackles up, please try to give some kind of cogent rebuttal to the following or allow it to be absorbed into your psyche with an open mind to sway your view.

My view…

In order to conduct an organization in a way that makes its product competitive and produce it at an optimal efficiency, compensation of employees has to be determined based on their EXPECTED net value and contribution to those ends. And, all else being equal, a woman’s EXPECTED value is simply not as high as a man’s in most (although I agree not ALL) jobs.

Simply put, all else being equal, a woman isn't worth as much as a man for any given job in large part because women have about twice the absentee rate as men and are far more likely to quit their jobs and leave the workforce for long periods than men which also means that when the return to the workforce, they have less experience than someone who spent that time on the job. You can't possibly perform your job as well as someone else if you aren't there to perform it. And it doesn't make sense for an employer to invest the same amount in training costs for someone who has a greater chance of leaving before the employer can get an adequate return on that investment, or to promote someone to a critical (and therefore higher paying) position in an organization who has a greater chance of leaving and causing an organizational crisis. You may not like it, but this is simple logic, economics and reality. On this basis alone, all else being equal, a woman's value to an organization is less than a man's.

To the extent that organizations are forced to provide “equal pay” it damages the organization and it damages the economy since any organization that is forced to make sub-optimal operating decisions is uncompetitive. And having uncompetitive organizations leads to failure in the global markets, domestic unemployment and eventually economic hardship and/or collapse. Forcing “equal pay” regardless of gender is a good way to ensure that women go from generally getting somewhat less pay than men -- based on fact based logical reasoning -- to having no jobs at all.

Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics
Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics

1|1
2141

Most Helpful Girl

Most Helpful Guy

  • Everyone, male or female, should be compensated based on their qualifications and performance, and that is exactly what is happening today in the western world.

    The so called gender wage gap is a direct reflection of the differences in men's and women's priorities in life, and the choices they make as a result. They choose to study different majors in school, they choose different careers. Women prioritize flexible work schedules and pleasant work environment higher than men do. Women work fewer hours on average than men, they remove themselves from the workforce for extended periods of time. Women leave their jobs to give birth and often don't return, which is extremely costly to employers when you factor in the cost of training and the loss of hard-earned knowledge that walks out the door with those women. The list goes on an on

    The wage gap is a direct reflection of those factors. What it is NOT a result of is sexism. Anyone who thinks we don't have equal pay for equal work is misinformed and/or dishonest.

    1|2
    0|0
    • That is an excellent synopsis of the reason women earn less than men on average and the implication is precisely right. They earn less because they CHOOSE to earn less. They choose a lifestyle that is not conducive to higher paying careers. When you make choices in life you are responsible for bearing the consequences of those choices. The only "injustice," if there is one, is trying to force other people to bear the cost of YOUR choices. All people in America have more opportunities and choices than anywhere else in the world or in the history of man. But along with that opportunity comes the responsibility of bearing the consequences -- good or bad -- for the choices you make. You cannot have one without the other.

    • Show All
    • Pay no attention to her. It's just another brainwashed liberal zombie with nothing to offer but hate, ignorance and anger.

    • Agreed. She's pathetic.

Recommended myTakes

Loading...

Join the discussion

What Girls Said 20

  • And people wonder why we still need feminism.

    15|6
    2|10
    • We don’t

    • Show All
    • @MementoMori_ You are right my friend. Thank you for supporting men's rights.

    • @Alfa_Male tink tink tink

  • One, we already have equal pay in the western world, it's literally illegal to pay a woman less than a man. Two, if I'm doing the same job as a man just as well, then I should be paid the same as him... which I already do cause of point #1.

    2|3
    1|0
    • Ya so what is everyone here talking about. It is the same lol

    • As with many subjects there is a difference between a discussion about what "should be" and "what is." "What is" is not always the best choice. That's why what "should be" should always be an open topic. This topic is about what "should be," not necessarily what is.

  • Women are usually absent from the workplace for usually one reason: MATERNITY! So your data is kind of bias because unfortunately we can't help that were the gender who has to carry and nuture the child. Second, when faced with the situation that either mom or dad pick up the sick kid, it's usually the mom.. again another reason women are absent. Women also have more health appointments and also usually are the ones who take their children to these appointments etc. I worked in different daycares in different cities for over a decade and rarely saw dads pick up kids early for those matters.

    It doesn't matter what gender, it should be paid equally and based on the work ethic and professionalism of the employee. I know females who were paid more than me and were worst employees then myself. One girl called in all the time while I always stayed later and covered any shift. But seniority takes precedence in the workplace not work ethic. So it shouldn't be about gender, it should be equal pay regardless and up to the employer to decide wether and employee deserves to stay at that pay based on their employment record.

    5|1
    0|0
  • All pay should begin as equal and then be adjusted over time according to the quality and productivity of the employee regardless of gender.

    It could end up that all the girls end up making more :)

    4|2
    0|0
  • I disagree. You are still looking at things from a very old school point of view. I do agree that in general, women's physical presence in the workplace may be lesser than men due to maternity leaves, checkup, looking after children etc. However, with the onset of technology, we are no longer confined to the limits of a physical workplace. Be creative, people are now working from homes and mobile devices, many people are bringing work home or to places of their convenience. There are already online training sessions in most org that could be done at the convenience of the trainee.
    Even when I'm not present at my workplace due to some illness, I'm still able to continue with my work from home, so your basis that women are less work-productive and inefficient is really unfair. I feel the real reason for your take is not because you desire to see organizations do well, but because you fear women taking on more higher-level positions and doing better than men in some aspects. You still want to see women as being the inferior gender, and they should be subservient to men.

    1|1
    0|0
  • If I’m doing the same job as my male counter part and doing a a good job or even a better job as him then I should get paid the same...

    5|2
    0|1
    • Well put.

    • Show All
    • Have you seen any dad benefits while his wife is pregnant?😒
      Doing same job is different than doing same amount of job.

    • @ROCKS128 they have paternal leave.

  • Women deserve equal pay for the same job a man does, end of! It still annoys me that in this day and age women are, through financial remuneration, termed as "second class" decades after the Equal Pay Act was put into law decades back. I've heard all the tripe and excuses over the years but it's rubbish, women are equal to men and should be treated as such.

    3|1
    0|3
  • You get payed for the work you do, the hours you put in, and your level of training. If a man and a woman have the same credentials at the same job they need to be payed the same amaout per hour. Period. It's not that hard.

    0|1
    0|0
  • We should get more money than men. Fuck the patriachy!.

    5|1
    0|5
    • Too bad honey that ain't ever happening. Now keep crying.

    • Show All
    • You should also be drafted for war and be mandated equal responsibility for equal pay and equal rights, but hey never mind all that. Men should give women money because they have vaginas. Oh wait. That’s already happening. Like alimony which as far as I can figure is payment for previous use of a woman’s vagina.

    • @Exterminatore
      Someone's bitter🙄

  • I dont think you know the first thing about what you are writing and even less about actual "logic"

    0|1
    0|1
    • Yet you offer no rebuttal. Hardly supportive of your assertion.

    • I very quickly realized how long it would take to thoroughly refute your assertions only to be faced with continued ignorance you’d shown in your drivel above. And it was at that point I decided to spend my time more wisely. I’ll end with this though, you can’t use the term “with all else being equal” when you ascribe such generalizations to one gender and not the other.

    • Still no rebuttal, just excuses to hide the fact that you have none.

  • “Expected value” lmfao my ass.

    2|2
    0|1
    • When you hire someone you determine how much they are going to contribute to your business based on what you EXPECT them to do. You cannot KNOW how much their value will actually be because they haven't done the job yet. So the only rational way to determine compensation is based on expectations of future performance. What other method would be rational? And absent any specific reason to assume otherwise, if you hire a woman, the rational expectation is that she will be absent from work more often than a man would be.

    • Show All
    • You don't understand the issue and in your case helping you understand it would be beyond the scope of these myTake forums. So I gave you the last word.

    • Oh okay, we have a consensus over the fact that this take is nonsense then it seems :)

  • You're incorrect bye

    4|2
    0|3
  • equal rights all the way!

    2|0
    0|1
    • Men more rights all the way 😛

    • Repealing women’s rights to vote all the way. What are you doing commenting on here anyway, shouldn’t you be doing a man’s laundry or something?

  • damnnn people like you...

    1|0
    0|1
  • Good take

    0|0
    5|3
  • I partly agree. Not on the sense that womens value in worth is less. But in the sense time off etc should be evaluated. But given the references and the background checks I think they should be the bases on pay rate, not the off chance the woman's off sick. That's basically saying as some women have higher off rate, for say pregnancy, what about the women who can't get pregnant so that's not an issue?
    Up until last year, I'd never had a day off sick in the 7 years since I was legally able.
    I think to solve that they should just do better checks in people, how often have they been sick in X amount of years? How much experience do they have?
    Luckily in the care sector the pay gap isn't really noticeable.

    0|0
    0|1
  • I’ve never missed a day of work. I hope you’re never part of the hiring process for jobs I apply for. Or perhaps I’d be the one hiring you. (didn’t check your age. Maybe you’ve never worked a day in your life. haha)
    Stinks that you’d refuse to hire half the population because of stats from 20 years ago.

    Also considering women are raped more often, left with caring for children, are more often victims of domestic violence, and have to give birth, missing only one day more on average is pretty good.

    3|1
    0|0
  • I am not sure. Equal pay for exact same jobs for sure.

    0|0
    0|0
  • good presentation

    0|0
    1|0
  • What I believe this largely fails to take into account is WHY those women take leaves of absences and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Typically these are due to either pregnancy or children. Now as far as society has come along, it still generally regards the rearing of children to be more of a woman's job than her husband even if they both equally care for the children in reality. That woman in that relationship is more likely to be at home when the kids are sick or when she is pregnant or god forbid there are any complications. This in turn allows those same men in couplings where they have children to continue to work uninterrupted climbing corporate ladders and such. Now if these same women decided, screw the children, they prefer to work non-stop and they decide their husbands should then take care of the kids more often, I'd wager those numbers would change.

    So your solution then is to forever punish women for having children and reward men for doing so. The only way for a woman to then get equal pay is to stop having children. This means, there would be no more men or women for that matter, and everyone would die ensuring that everyone can EQUALLY die in the interest of fairness and equality.

    You should probably look into companies that actually invest in women and provide things like childcare onsite and account for pregancy/time off that is basically essential for the continuation of life as we know it rather than just conveniently ignoring this part of "reality."

    Even beyond that, what of the women who do actually choose not to have children? You forever punish them in this scheme by the assumption that just because they can, they should not be paid equally.

    4|1
    0|0
    • *just because they can get pregnant, they should not be paid equally

    • Show All
    • The solution is to find solutions like childcare onsite that benefit both parents or a work from home option. It's the same exact reason a company has a health plan---if it's employees have insurance they are more likely to use it when they get sick to take care of themselves to get back to work. And paying women less "just because" of a possibility of pregnancy is incomprehensible. That's like saying you may get in a car accident so don't give anyone a car.

    • Not sure I agree with the onsite child care argument. Who's paying for the onsite child care? The company or the parent? If it's the parent, than I could fully understand that, but the company shouldn't have to pay for child care when it was the parents of the child that chose to have the child in the first place. And if the argument is for at work child care than couldn't you make the same argument for at home child care aka a babysitter or daycare services?

What Guys Said 40

  • You make a great point. Too bad society doesn't function on logic alone.

    0|1
    5|0
  • Your opinion is flawed in several ways, which will take longer to explain than I have time to do right now, but briefly fall under three headings.

    1) In the vast majority of jobs today the majority of training costs are either a) Bourne by the employee, i. e. Doctors, nurses, engineers, must have degrees, or b) are related to the amount of time spent working, so, less work, less training costs.

    2) A well designed employee management system should be able to manage employee absenteeism. If it can't, that's the fault of management, not the employee.

    More than that, however is that a central tenet of your argument, that women are absent more than men, is in fact incorrect and unsupported by the data.

    3) The biggest problem with your argument, and the one that shows that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, is your "competition" argument.

    It is so poorly thought out that I weep for any company that you ever attempt to run.

    EVEN IF your other arguments were true (higher training costs, greater female absenteeism) Your "competition" argument BY ITSELF is enough to demonstrate the folly of your entire argument.

    Here's an intellectual exercise for you and the rest of GaG As I said, I don't have time now to go the many errors in your argument: WHY IS THE COMPETITION ARGUMENT FALSE? HINT: In England jivkeys of all different weights race horses - HOW?

    2|0
    0|0
    • "More than that, however is that a central tenet of your argument, that women are absent more than men, is in fact incorrect and unsupported by the data."

      Not supported by the data? Not supported by what data? I posted a graph created by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics that shows women are absent from work nearly twice as often as men. I you have a more reliable source of data than that please post it. Otherwise it is your view that is not supported by the data.

    • Show All
    • no response? Exactly what I thought. Back to your pasement Joseph

  • Pay should be based on things like ability, productivity, hours worked, experience and education. Gender shouldn't be a factor. There should be no special treatment due to what reproductive organs you have.

    1|1
    0|0
    • How true. The real racism and sexism comes from those who seek special treatment for women and minorities. Treating people differently because of the color of their skin or what they have between their legs is the very definition of racism and sexism. Value for any job should be determined by free market forces only. An employer should be free to hire or not hire anyone they choose for any reason they wish. And the compensation should be determined only on the basis of what the employer and employee agree to.

  • Here ALL women are USELESS !!!

    Thats what your text looks like to me from point of work and economy. I Disagree!!!

    I agree feminism deals more damage to women then helping them. And I disagree with feminism because of it.
    But your arguments are far away from what agree with. They sound more like a person who is angry on women.

    And Did I understand you right you think women shoud not work in general?

    The are women out there who dont like to work and a lot of them are great.

    Just and example. For decades a nurse was usually female, because she is in general more empathic and saint. Ofc the are men who to better or women who do worse. But in general it a womens thing. And that is good! I prefer a caring heartful nurse over a rough careless person. Women usually not always dont better than men.

    And in modern world are more opportunitys that before.
    If a company decides to use womens skills to do harmfull things you would say the is a devil. But if a guy builds tanks and says If you dont do what I say he is less evil? ?

    We have useful options for women and we should use it.
    Everyoe can decide himself if where to go and do his / her best.

    If someone is just playing videogames 6h a day and proclaims everything is bad, it this / her own fault. And yes many women to it do.
    I dont say it is bad but just dont proclaim your miseraby

    0|0
    0|0
    • And to clearfy this. Forcing anything by law just hurts the women who dislike doing something. eg Working

      But when people try to enforce them not to work at all. I can at least understand why we have this law.

      If you really wanna change something. Stop hating anyone. (Same for feminism girls) and establish a world where everyone can do its best instead of enforcing and fighting all the time. It just drains energy for nothing

    • It appears to me that you completely misunderstand my post. I didn't say, and don't think anything even close to that women shouldn't work. I don't have any idea how you could interpret it that way. And you didn't say anything of substance to rebut what I actually did say. You just repeated "I disagree" in several different ways and ascribed things to my comments that were neither said nor implied and motives to my reasoning that are both imaginary and irrelevant. Sounds to me like you are the angry one in this conversation.

  • Businesses exist to make money for the owners. That means paying as little as possible for the desired results. Logically, if they could get the same results by hiring women for less, the men would be out of jobs.

    0|1
    0|0
    • Correct. There is no effective economic argument for equal pay, it's all about imposing subjective "social justice" on private sector enterprise by force of government. To my mind it is an attempt to replace one form of perceived injustice with another. I don't blame women for trying to use whatever means they have at their disposal to gain economic advantage. That's rational behavior. But the question is not about who gets their way, but whether or not the result is the best thing for a society overall.

  • This sounds like the same kind of thing as how car insurance for teenage boys is freaking high.

    Statistics can be a bitch, does not represent the whole but if you go against the norm you still get screwed anyways.

    0|1
    0|0
    • To further add, the argument for equal pay is to take gender out of the equation regarding pay rates.

    • Show All
    • PS: If after 3 months I was happy with you, I'd probably also give you a bonus that reimburses you for the 20% that you didn't get the first 3 months. I want productive employees, I don't care one wit what color or sex they are.

    • Yes you do. You wouldn't ask it expect a man to say that it take that deal. So it's sexist either way because you have a bias regardless. Even if she had to work harder to prove herself to you, she shouldn't have to just because she's a woman. She should have the benefit of the doubt just like a man.
      Another thing is that men are harder on equipment then woman. I know a guy who hires women because they take care of the $4 mil wood chipper as opposed to their male counterparts. Most work injuries are also sustained by males, which results in higher pay outs and coverage of WCB claims, so having these expenses doesn't help your company financially, it causes trouble for it and WCB rates increase with each injury, so your paying more into it for the liability coverage. You and I are not gonna see eye to eye on this, so let's agree to disagree and move on.

  • Even if they get paid more than men for less hours they will still be out there with their signs. Nope, not until men are exterminated will the signs go away.

    3|1
    1|0
  • It seems to me that absenteeism isn't really an issue here. Hourly workers are paid for the hours they work, right? In this digital era with home offices, can't they do home office sometimes?

    I may be more sympathetic on this than some men because I have three kids and have had to miss work in order to stay home with a sick kid or take them to the doctor.

    2|0
    0|0
  • I think a lot of people on all fronts misunderstand the gender wage gap. America is described as the land of freedom and opportunity. There is 325 million people with slightly more females within standard divination. With 325 million data points who supposedly can do whatever they want, there is a noticable deviation. We want to know why. I don't think it's people twirling there evil mustaches just to make a buck where they can get away with. But a society level question on why it is.

    You mentioned child care and if a family chooses for one parent to be a primary care taker while the other parent works it's there choice. Now the wage gap questions is "is that choice going to the family?" people scoff the stay at home dad or at least a hmmmm at the notion. With millions of data points of a free nation it should even out, its not.

    Also look at nursing for an example. Nationwide worker shortage, why is that. Moderate education compared to doctors. Decent pay. Sure it demands a level of warmth and caring. It's deemed women's work. Males are afraid of great potential, and being wonderful contributioners of any community based on society's pressure. I don't think that should be acceptable.

    The wage gap question is a bench mark on our society. If we as a society don't like it, we should break it down and see what's going on. The wage gap hurts all of us then just female pocket books. It's a force that controls all of us in a land of pursuit of your own happyness.

    I feel like I should disclose my annoyed stance today on the matter that is tandem to all those national men day posts recently. They all cry about men being abused with higher risk work. Go figure it goes with higher pay hence the wage gap hence my point. I could be connecting unrelated dots but think anyone shouldn't beable to eat there cake and have it too.

    0|0
    0|0
  • Well then... Haven't you just got it all figured out
    Guess everyone who thought equal pay was just silly

    1|0
    0|0
    • If they can't make any logical case for equal pay, yet still believe it is the best choice, then yes, they are silly. You can distinguish yourself from those silly people by making a logical case for it. So far you have not.

  • In that case, organizations should pay Asians a lot more than white people because Asians as a whole have higher work ethics than whites.

    See what I did there.

    0|0
    0|0
    • Pay shouldn't be determined by "work ethic," it should be determined by the value the employee contributes to the organization. And when you are absent from your job, you are not contributing value.

    • Right. I love your argument how "work ethic" isn't a thing.
      Of course, you should just stop this farce and come out and say "Yes, I believe White Men should be paid the most, because we are always there working, and we contribute value by being there." Because surely, only white men have what it takes to contribute "value" (see, I can use parentheses too) to an organization :)

    • Your case is based on some kind of emotional problem, not on facts and logic. Since I'm not a psychiatrist I cannot address it.

  • True.
    Not to mention a women even gets soo much benefits while pregnant. Not that its unnecessary, but a dad is left out!

    This i strongly agree. I have seen many women doing enjoyable work beside during working hours. Not many men do that.
    And later whine things.
    Private groups may know how to handle it better, since they are set for profits!
    But Govt groups get de-accelerated while keeping many such women in jobs. They may want to develop a country from both genders, but no eqaulity in that!

    0|0
    2|0
  • You know women in some cases make more than men? Are you going to tell me women teachers make less than men? Also women get pregnancy leave , men don't and they must hold job for her. Women take more personal days than men. Other words companies lose more money with women than men. How could any woman argue that point?

    0|0
    2|0
    • Because depending where you live, you don't always get maternity leave. In my country (Canada) Men can take paternity leave and stay at home. There are also parental benefits That get paid to either mom or dad depending on whose on leave. Men can choose to stay home but it's usually the mother for breastfeeding reasons.

  • I support women getting equal pay, like when they get drafted for war. Oh wait that’s right, that doesn’t happen. Well so much for feminism being about equality because I’m pretty sure feminists aren’t pushing for that.

    0|0
    1|0
  • The sad part behind this is people are going to give you attention. Because honestly you crave that more than being paid if you write something like this.

    1|1
    0|0
  • this site is full of the dumbest humans on the face of the goddamn earth... i swear to jesus.

    4|0
    0|0
  • Equal pay was meant to be for equal work. Feminism killed that and rigged the game. Quit playing their game, and quit playing with them. Period.

    0|0
    0|0
  • We are taught that denying a job because of race or gender is wrong - So with that mindset it is wrong to give women equal pay just because they are women. And unfair to men that have earned higher pay- Even if the experience level is the same. Men are worth more to a company and will work longer than women in most cases. I love women and have many women friends, but from a business standpoint, Committing a company's resources on employes, I agree that it is not good to give women equal pay. It is not about what is correct - It is about what they are worth. This is business, and in business a women is not as valuable as a man to that business. ( Their are some exceptions here. ) You have done a good job explaining this from a business standpoint. The excuse " It's only fair " means nothing in the business world.

    0|0
    0|0
  • Equal Pay Is Bad Even For Women. Why This Must Not Be Part Of Public Policy.

    1|0
    0|0
  • Equal Pay Is Bad Even For Women. Why This Must Not Be Part Of Public Policy.

    0|0
    0|0
  • An interesting take that warrants further examination.

    0|1
    3|0
  • Assuming your figures from 1998 are correct, have you researched why women have more absenteeism than men?

    0|0
    0|0
    • No I haven't. But I think the reason is clear and I discussed that with someone on this page earlier (because they bear the primary duties of childcare). This topic though is not about "reason" but about the fact that they have more absenteeism. The discussion about reason has to do with "fairness." That's a different topic and a subjective issue whereas the fact that they have higher absenteeism is not subjective. And, even assuming there is something "unfair" about a lack of equal pay, yet another discussion is what should be done about it. Is forcing equal pay in order to remedy potential unfairness the best solution for a society? And is THAT fair or just replacing one injustice with another? And yet another discussion... should forcing equal pay be something that falls within the scope of what government should be doing? All of that is related in some way, but not the topic of this post.

    • PS: If the figures provided by the BLS are correct, then my figures are correct because that graph was created by the BLS.

  • I just came here to laugh at the triggered comments tbh

    0|0
    4|0
  • I totally agree with equal pay. That means a TON of women will be getting pay cuts.

    0|0
    0|0
  • You think you should earn equal pay as a construction worker?

    0|0
    0|0
  • Equal pay for the same work! What's so bad about that, and for whom?

    0|0
    0|0
  • Yeah, GaG has seen better days.

    2|0
    0|0
  • Good point. Thanks for the take.

    0|0
    2|0
  • Nice topic... I support feminism.

    1|0
    0|0
  • Show more from Guys
    10

Recommended Questions

Loading...