False Claims About President Trump

[ladsin]

So a lady on here recently asked the question- If Trump wins in 2020 will we still have elections?

In it she proceeds to make several claims about President Trump which I find to be disengenuous at best. Because the Trump craze seems so hysterical I thought I’d respond to a few of her points and see what y’all think.

1) Trump has expressed desire to be elected for life after praising the elimination of elections in China. -When did Trump seriously express the desire to be elected for life? A brief Google search led me to a WP article which stated, “The president... has previously joked about serving more than two terms, including at an event in April, when he told a crowd that he might remain in the Oval Office “at least for 10 or 14 years.” If even the WP can tell it was a joke, I think we can rest fairly assured that it was a joke.

2) Trump has threatened political rivals and the free press. -When has he threatened them in a manner that’s out of the norm? Obama’s administration actually prosecuted more whistleblowers under the WW1-Era Espionage Act than all other presidents combined. “Since Barack Obama entered the White House in 2009, his government has waged a war against whistleblowers and official leakers. On his watch, there have been eight prosecutions under the 1917 Espionage Act – more than double those under all previous presidents combined” (Guardian). On the other hand Democrats at the highest levels of power have been saying that Trump is a traitor and Russian asset since before his presidency and threatened “lock him up.” Ie. “I don’t want to see him impeached,” she told senior lawmakers Tuesday. “I want to see him in prison.” -Nancy Pelosi

3.) Trump has attacked the legitimacy of US institutions including the military. -Which institutions are you thinking of? All of our institutions should be routinely questioned and not blindly believed. As someone who had a left of center perspective for most of my life (still do, but dems have moved radically left placing me slightly on the right) I find it wild that “liberals” are now saying we should trust all the institutions. Do y’all not remember the findings of the Church & Pike commissions? These are the same institutions that tried to get MLK Jr to kill himself and assassinated Fred Hampton in his bed.

4) Trump has expressed nothing but fondness for Putin, Kim Jong-un, and Erdoğan. -Trump likes dictators... ok have you seen his letter to Erdogan? Have you seen his actions in Russia which led to actual Russian deaths? President Obama promised the Russians leeway if he won re-election and the Crimean annexation occurred under Obama’s tenure.

Anyways I look forward to yalls thoughts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-supporters-might-demand-that-he-serve-more-than-two-terms-as-president/2019/06/16/4b6b9ae2-9041-11e9-b570-6416efdc0803_story.html?outputType=amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/16/whistleblowers-double-standard-obama-david-petraeus-chelsea-manning

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/06/nancy-pelosi-doesnt-want-trump-impeached-i-want-to-see-him-in-prison/amp

[nightdrot]

As obvious as it should seem, I am not clear on the point of this MyTake. That there is a certain amount of hysteria and hyperbole surrounding President Trump is not that surprising. In a populist age, augmented by a technology that reinforces the very human habit of living in one's own head, subjectivity and hysteria prevail, albeit more than usual. By the same token, hyperbole is fairly common to politics.

Take Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. That decade was, on the whole, a stable, people and prosperous point in American history. Reagan's an emollient personality. Yet he was accused of being a doddering old fool who was losing his mental faculties and who was stealing from the poor to give to the rich. He was going to push the nuclear button and blow the world to bits.

That was at the time. Yet by the time he left office, he was the first President since Eisenhower to leave office more popular then when he came in. The economy was booming with inflation down from 14.5% to 1.1%, and what was, at the time, thought to be statistical full employment. (Economists would later, as unemployment continued to fall, revise that number downward.) Most of all, far from the world going up in a mushroom shaped cloud, the first arms reduction treaty in the nuclear ear was signed and, in due course, the Cold War ended and the Soviet Union fell.

Given the hair pulling during Mr. Reagan's presidency - particularly its early stages - one would not have expected that outcome. Thus, what Mr. Trump faces is pretty much the norm and deserves no tears. It is part and parcel of politics and the way to engage with it is to respond with dispassionate analysis.

In that, the bill of particulars against Mr. Trump is not wholly without its merits. (This I say as a Republican who is no fan of, and did not vote for, the President.)

To take a few - the motion that he will refuse to leave office if defeated is nonsense on stilts. It is a counterfactual and will only be disproved to those who are inclined to believe it with experience.

As to attacking the legitimacy of institutions. This has a grain of truth to it, if not as extreme as the hair pulling suggests. Mr. Trump is not a conservative. He is a populist. He routinely denounces "the swamp" and "the politicians." He bypasses the Senate confirmation process with breathtaking insouciance. (This Administration has more offices held by "acting" officials than any in American history.) Indeed, Mr. Trump's troubles in Ukraine are as much because he skirts the edges of the law - not necessarily breaking them but acting against their spirit - as anything else.

Reagan famously spoke of "We the people" and a "shinning city upon a hill." His rhetoric harked back to the nation's history and institutions. Mr. Trump rarely speaks of such things - generally speaking more of his own presumed greatness. Reagan calmed the social waters, Trump rubs salt in the social wounds.

To be sure, Trump is the symptom and not the first cause of his times. However, he is playing with fire. He does indeed reinforce the ethos of a people to quick to assume their own virtues and too slow to realize the value of their institutions.

As Disraeli said, "A nations freedoms are embodied in its institutions. The march of intellect is not enough." The only caveat being that Trump's appeals are to a "diffuse distrust and an indiscriminate suspicion," not so much intellect. Yet to Trump, all history was as nothing before he became, in his own words, the greatest President ever.

As to tyrants. Here Mr. Trump gets some slack, but it is not untrue. Lord Palmerston famously said, "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." Trump is, rightly, less concerned with how cuddly and lovable certain national leaders are than with Machiavelli's dictum, "Lay down with the devil and achieve your goals."

CONT.

[nightdrot]

However, even here, Mr. Trump is less impressive than he appears. As the recent situation in Syria demonstrates, it is less a matter of cold ruthless calculation than a vain obeisance to campaign promises without reference to the long term wisdom of the promises.

Trump in that case acted rightly, particularly as a way to draw Turkey back into the US orbit. Yet, because he had no long term plan, the domestic and international backlash against his action forced him into an awkward political and diplomatic stance that undercut much of what he had sought to achieve. In this Mr. Trump was less Bismarck and more Mr. Magoo.

Suffice to say, the list goes on. As Executive Head of Government, Mr. Trump's administration has been slipshod and chaotic. With frequent changes of personnel, policy flip-flops and muddled communications. This only being mitigated by his outsized personality and a strong economy. The latter of which he gets some credit for, though not nearly as much as he credits himself. (Compare the economy Mr. Trump inherited from Mr. Obama as against that Mr. Reagan inherited from Mr. Carter. By far, Mr. Reagan had the bigger climb and the more impressive accomplishment.)

Bottom line, this MyTake is not wrong. Rather it fails to acknowledge that there is a certain level of truth in the criticisms once the emotional hyperventilating and hyperbole are stripped away. In that, Mr. Trump is not as vile as the criticisms suggest, but paradoxically he is in some ways even more reckless and damaging to the nation - certainly not as great as he, and his less critical supporters, assert that he is.

[nightdrot]

Type-o:

This line - "That decade was, on the whole, a stable, people and prosperous point in American history."

Should read - "That decade was, on the whole, a stable, PEACEFUL and prosperous point in American history."

[nightdrot]

Apologies - second type-o:

This sentence - "Most of all, far from the world going up in a mushroom shaped cloud, the first arms reduction treaty in the nuclear ear was signed and, in due course, the Cold War ended and the Soviet Union fell."

Should read - "Most of all, far from the world going up in a mushroom shaped cloud, the first arms reduction treaty in the nuclear ERA was signed and, in due course, the Cold War ended and the Soviet Union fell."

[ladsin]

Hey there, as always thanks for the response.

The point of this MyTake is pretty much exactly your response. I’m personally no big fan of The Trump as you may remember from our previous conversations, but the hysteria that surrounds him is incredibly strange to me. As you say there are of course some truths to the claims and scandals that surround him, but as far as American politicians go, he’s not that far out of left field. That’s my point with this myTake, he’s not that crazy, he’s a New Yorker with a big mouth, and that’s about it. As for my points we’re agreed on 1, I don’t think you addressed 2 (threat to free press), 3 we may be agreed on although to differing extents (I’m probably more distrustful of the intelligence agencies than you are for some of the reasons listed), 4 we seem to be in lockstep. Trump at times can seem sycophants to these dictatorial regimes and at other times antagonistic (ie his actions with Russia vs his rhetoric about Putin).

[ladsin]

Also sorry for the delayed response. I had ~800 notifications so I just cleared them all the other day and only found this today.

[nightdrot]

Very sorry. You say you missed my response - I just now, by pure accident, found yours. I won't bother, after all this time, to hash out what you wrote above. Other than to add that I think you made some very fair points.

At any rate, so sorry to have missed your reply. I don't know how I did and I have less excuse for having done so. You are one of the folks I most enjoy on this site and I only hope that my not replying to you was taken as my ignoring you.

[BlacklightShade]

I’ll start with The Trump Foundation

A charity he used to avoid taxes. He had put zero money into it since the 80s. Other people would put money into his charity as a way for him to avoid taxes. Rather than donate his own money to charity he used the Trump Foundation as a way to pay himself.

The wrestling foundation he appeared on played his fees to the charity.

He took money from other donors then used that money to donate to (bribe) a political campaign for the Florida attorney general who at the time was investigating Trump University (remember that?). With charity money from his Foundation he paid off a lawsuit where he tried to cheat a million dollar contest winner for getting a hole in one at his golf course. Because donating money to a political campaign using charity money is illegal he doctored his books to make it look like he paid a legitimate charity.

He bought a $10k painting of himself to put in one of his clubs. He bought a Tim Tebow football helmet with charity money.

He was forced to close down his charity for several reasons including STEALING MONEY FROM A CHILDRENS HOSPITAL.

He took money from one charity owned by someone else and turned around and donated it to Florida police ball as his own money as a way to gain business.

‘“The foundation was accused by the attorney general, Barbara Underwood, of “functioning as little more than a checkbook to serve Mr. Trump’s business and political interests,” and of engaging in “a shocking pattern of illegality” that included unlawfully coordinating with Mr. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign.“

www.nytimes.com/.../...rwood-trump-foundation.html

Sued for self-dealing
www.reuters.com/.../new-york-sues-trump-and-his-charity-over-self-dealing-idUSKBN1JA26G

Trump foundation admits it
www.washingtonpost.com/.../...15787add0_story.html

www.wsj.com/.../new-york-attorney-general-sues-trump-foundation-alleging-illegal-coordination-with-trump-campaign-1528988443

www.vice.com/.../donald-trumps-charity-foundation-scandal

Read about Trump Foundation’s “critical” rating from a charity rating website.
www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm

I could go on and on but I’m bored now. Next time I’ll maybe talk about Trump University.

[Paige90]

So you only quote liberal publications?

[ladsin]

That’s all well and good. I’m perfectly willing to accept that Trump is a crook, my point is that he’s not radically outside the norm in American politics for the aforementioned reasons. If you want to talk about crook politicians we’ll be here till the sky falls.

[BlacklightShade]

@Paige90 - It seems that only liberal publications care to report that the Trump family can no longer run charities after they broke every law on operating a charity. Since all charities must have public tax documents, show me a Conservative publication that criticizes Trump's charity for self-dealing, using charity money for political campaigns to bribe a DA who's investigating another Trump crime, using a charity to pay off lawsuits, etc. Show me a conservative newspaper that mentions Trump's Charity in the non-political, non-partisan www.charitynavigator.org with a rating of "high concern".

Next @Paige90 will ask me to show her a positive rating of "Mein Kampf" in an Israeli newspaper.

[jiffyjeff1029]

Hmmmm the Clinton Foundation...

The Clinton pay for play money machine. Selling influence and favors for the wealthy. Ripping off people in Haiti. 33,000 deleted emails after the supena was served no less. She destroyed emails after she was ordered to turn them in.

[jiffyjeff1029]

Um good joke for all of you.

Know how you can tell a politician is lying?

His lips are moving.

Trump is not a politician he's a business man.

Research when Clinton was running for President.

There was a gentleman named Ross Perot he was a business man also. And when they started talking NAFTA he told the American people exactly what was going to happen. We lost our industrial base to Mexico, Canada and the Asian countries. Business men Know economics, they know how to handle money. Every Since Reagan left Office (he was an actor before entering politics and was originally a Democrat but switched sides)
And Bush Sr got into office we have been in a downward spiral. Bush screwed up and lied to the American people when he said Sadam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. When him and his son took out saddam hussein they destabilized the whole middle east. Saddam was not a nice guy and I'm sure we all agree on that, but he kept Iran in check and the one thing Saddam hated more then anything was TERRORIST!!
He would burn them alive, bury them alive, beheaded them and hung they're dead body's outside of the city as a warning to any terrorist that wanted to enter the city to stay away.

They took out Libyas leader also, know why?

Because he was going to start minting Gold coins for Libyas currency.

See there is one country left still using precious metal to back they're paper bill.

Who is it you ask?

The UK remember the British pound?

It's still backed by a pound of British sterling.

[GreenPenguin]

1. His repeated jokes about being president beyond the two four-year terms could easily be a joke, but repeating it this many times shows that he's got it on his mind a lot. As a president you're not a private person anymore and need to remember that what you say is more than just your view on things, it's your entire administration's view. He keeps doing things that is unfit for a person with such importance.

2. By threaten political rivals, I don't think people mean that he is using a law to defeat his opponents. Check the link below. It says "he implicitly threatened the life of officials in his administration who had helped a whistle-blower reveal Trump’s abuse of power"

And that^ is just the most recent one.

3. It is important to question things, but remember that as a president, he can order an investigation into it, going public to say that something is corrupt is creating chaos for that institution, it literally makes their job harder even if it is 100% legit.

4. On this one... He's back and forth, one moment he loves them, the next he hates them. I have no clue what the man's thinking. I think he has expressed a that he likes the fact that they hold absolute power for a lifetime, and feels that is the way to go. No sources on that, but I faintly remember something along those lines a few years back when he was in his Putin loving mood.

www.bostonglobe.com/.../story.html

[ladsin]

Hey at least a thoughtful response, thanks.
1) You won’t find me defending Trump’s rhetoric. He’s certainly not very presidential, but that doesn’t mean he’s planning on doing away with the democratic process.
2) There’s a reason that I specifically said, “Out of the norm.” I’m not a fan of a lot of political rhetoric which I think is inflammatory without cause, but this isn’t out of the norm. I couldn’t read your link (they wanted me to sign up), but I presume it’s about the recent “treason” debacle. Lots of people have accused Trump of having committed treason. Hell for the entire Mueller probe we had to hear people claim that he was a Russian asset (committing treason). Trump has also accused nearly everyone and their grandmother of treason, it just seems to be how our current president blows off steam. That’s not a defense of his conduct, but it does have to be noted that he’s not rounding these people up.
3) He has ordered an investigation into how the Mueller probe came to be. Particularly were interested in knowing if President Obama directly ordered the intelligence agencies to spy on now President Trump for political gain. We should know the results soon.
4) President Trump does ACT rather sycophantic toward dictators. I presume he just likes strongmen and this is how he does business (obsessive flattery to try and eke our a better deal). This seems to be the case to me because he also wants people to treat him that way. The main point here is that while verbally Trump is rather kind to them his actions are quite different. Either way he’s hardly abnormal in this realm. Again see Obama’s comments to the Russians, Bush’s statements about Putin, etc.

[silvermoon84]

I’m not good at political discussions so bear with me here. I’m going to try. Mind you I’m not defending Trump per se, just stating my observations.

1.). When did Trump ever say he wanted to be elected for life? And even if he did, people seldom understand the system of checks and balances. The president only gets a portion of federal control over the law but before he puts anything into effect it requires approval from congress and the Supreme Court. For those that don’t understand checks and balances, it’s a process in which all three branches of federal government check each other to ensure full power doesn’t go to only one branch, which means even if Trump did say he was going to do that, he might not be able too asl long as democrats keep fighting him.

2.) these same people pushing to impeach Trump and lock him up where also thinking it was utterly ridiculous to even consider putting Hillary away for mishandling classified information, an act that resulted in the death of an ambassador and four special agents. Trump is definitely not an angel at least he’s not a lying criminal either.

3.) Sorry, but as a veteran I have seen more vitriol against the military spewing out of liberals themselves.

4.) Trump likes dictators? If that’s true, I’m guessing names like “rocket man” are really a term of endearment rather than contempt?

And to all the leftists who want to call me a brainwashed moron, go ahead. After five years in the military I’ve definitely been called worse so nothing bothers me.

[Sabretooth]

point 1: https://youtu.be/09ZCJnf-qMw?t=63 point 2: not true-in fact-it seems backward-people condemned Hillary for defending a pedophile-yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL8zDigxOzo&t=3s it seems like those offended by past actions committed by past presidencies are completely fine when trump does those same things. 3: trump lashes out at anything and mocking everything about the law and constitution-as well as his low-balling of McCain and disconcern of soldiers who die-he doesn't care. 5: Putin has him wrapped around his finger-Erdogan was able to get what he wanted easily by strong-arming him. as for Kim Jong-un... well, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0awE-rnL4 trump tells people how he feels about Jong-un.

[genuinlysensitive]

@Sabretooth Point 1, since you think that what is clearly a joke, is serious you will appreciate the fact that the Washington Post once "fact checked" Donald Trump for saying we have burgers stacked "a mile high". What a liar!

Point 2: Saying some nice things about someone who just died is totally the same as a lawyer, volunteering to defend a pedophile that gang raped a little girl until her cervix collapsed and she almost died, and not forget running state secrets on her illegal server that even James Comey admitted she broke the law:

Violation of 18 U. S. Code § 798 — disclosure of classified information

Anther law, 18 USC 793 — gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

Scratch that multiple laws.

3. I don't know WTF your point is here

4. You skipped 4

5. I'm old enough to remember back when democrats didn't want endless wars. In fact they were the party of anti-war, "bring our troops home." That was before November 2016. Since then EVERY time Trump has tried to negotiate peace, or actually BRING OUR TROOPS HOME, as in Afghanistan or Syria, he is lambasted by democrats. They even want to go to war with Russia! Gee I wonder why so many people are leaving the party in droves? #walkaway

https://youtu.be/4Pjs7uoOkag

https://youtu.be/4Pjs7uoOkag

[Sabretooth]

@genuinlysensitive yes, yes-EVERYTHING crazy that comes out pf his mouth is a joke-that covers a lot. jackson was a known pedophile. as for ''Saying some nice things about someone who just died'' i doubt the widow and her family who lost a husband, son, and father benefited from trump saying ''it's what he signed up for-but i guess it still hurts anyway'' trump is known to have no real concern for laws or the constitution-as he's constantly breaking them and no respect for the soldiers. Syria was for him-even the soldiers have spoken out about it-we abandoned our allies to get slaughtered-allowing isis to be freed-all because of his towers in Istanbul-and it's suspected that Putin might have also been involved-but as it stands-it's all circumstantial. you are desperately defending an immature and incompetent person who doesn't really care about you or this country-and who can't even BE defended anyway-those who try only look like idiots... or, if they work for him-they can also further incriminate him-as this fool did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxL6WE3Ob8&t=19s even trump can't defend himself. here is a tweet by trump-giving a weak defense in regards to Ukraine: “Neither [Bill Taylor] or any other witness has provided testimony that the Ukrainians were aware the military aid was being withheld,” Ratcliffe said on the show. “You can’t have a quid pro quo with no quo.” according to nsnbc-Ukraine already knew-plus, there are the transcripts. watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC1VAPJ5cgE

[Sabretooth]

@genuinlysensitive only thing i'm not too sure about is just what in the hell i'm looking at-incompetence? mockery? sabotage? or all three?

[genuinlysensitive]

Wow, I never realized how many democrats are hypocrites! Prior to Nov. 2016, we were pro-free speech, anti-war, "give peace a chance", now they hate free speech, and want to feed our soldiers into the meat grinder of endless foreign wars for the Military Industrial complex! It actually turns my stomach I believed my fellow democrats when they said they stood for these things!

As for the transcript of the phone call:

www.scribd.com/.../President-Trump-Telephone-Conversation-with-President-Zelenskyy-of-Ukraine-Unclassified09-2019

Here is what Adam Schiff said the conversation was:

https://youtu.be/GN4CJ8MYLTY?t=215

When called out for lying to congress Schiff said it was a "parody" but of course that was not reported by any of the Corporate media including BSNBC!

Note I am providing actual clips and documents in full context rather than just a bunch of random cherry-picked "quotes" like O'Donnell?

Anyway since I know you are so concerned with quid pro quo here is Biden with proof of Ukraine quid pro quo:

https://youtu.be/urTk6O4c0mU?t=27

He also implicates Obama in his admission. I wonder do you actually care about corruption, or will you let Obama/Biden off the hook because they are apart of "the party"?

[Sabretooth]

@genuinlysensitive oh, please-trump is the one calling his critics scum and followers of fake news and whatever. don't know what that video proves-this was already known to us. trump and even his chief of staff admitted it was. course i won-i'm part of no party. as far as that prosecutor -from what i keep hearing-even trump wanted that prosecutor gone.

[jiffyjeff1029]

Thanks for your service and thanks for the intelligent response and clearing a few things up.

[jiffyjeff1029]

Thanks For your service Young ladie!!

[jiffyjeff1029]

Love 💘 💘 Love Love you!!

And I call you Smart, tactfull, Honest and eloquent.

By The way I agree with what you say and I am even a Trump fan.

I have a couple jewels of History for you to watch.

#1 Trump.
Lincoln.
Jackson. and
John F Kennedy.
All had the same enemy,
Who was it?

Go to YouTube and type into the search bar :

The money Masters
How international bankers gained control of America.

Watch this documentary.

#2 watch this documentary next.

Search online for :

The 911 conspiracy solved.

Should be under top documentaries.

#3 search YouTube for :
Trey Smith.

God in a nut shell.

"The Trump prophecy "

Now since you were in the military this should make sense to you.

The world trade center was not brought down by the terrorist plane flown into it. It was planned to come down. The plane was the cause ( so they say) NO!! It was a controlled demolition!!
Here's Mathimatical proof.

Jp8 jet fuel it highly refined diesel fuel.
Burns around 1000 degrees F.

Steel turns white hot around 2500 degrees F

Jp8 can't melt raw steel let alone steel covered with fire proofing rated for 1000 degrees F.

Steel is harder then aluminum.

An aluminum airplane can't not damage steel.

A person trained to fly a piston engine plane with gauges, dials and a single engine can not fly a all glass cockpit multi engine jet aircraft.
And he can not defend from 20,000 feet and pick a floor and actually hit the target.

When they brought down another building during the towers burning after the attack. How did those men prepare the structure, set the charges and clear the area in less then an hour?

The plane that crashed in the field was headed to one of two places.

The pentagon or building 7or 6 ( I can remember the one they brought down).

Hope this all Interests you Young lady.

Be good, be safe, and Thanks for your service!!

[Anonymous]

With trump I am back and forth.
1) I doubt a man like Trump would willingly leave office. I think he will find some loop hole to try and stay there. However I think he wasn't joking. In 87 Regan wanted to start a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment (that's limits 2 terms). Trump could try and abolish the term limit, I don't think America would allow for it though...
2) I don't know all that Obama did in office because I was fairly young when he was elected however in the Trump situation and "threatening" press and rivals I believe has little to no proof. Things online can be twisted SO many ways
3) The legitimacy of everything should be attacked, I for one am glad he spoke against them. The military hides too much from the American public. I believe every organization has a secret agenda and it's be a lie to say everyone isn't driven by money. Hell, you can't even trust pharmaceutical companies anymore because why would a doctor heal you completely? Hed be without a job.
4) Dictators. They have completely control of their people some Koreans even worships kim or so I've heard. I think it's a plus for America as long as the complete control isn't put into effect here. I don't believe any other president has been allowed im North Korea... that's good on our part because with the nuclear weapons they have we need eyes so we can better prepare if they do turn on us.

I don't want trump to babble for longer than he already has but the majority of america will decide wether he is fit for us. If not, its a least a learning lesson.

Just my opinions though. I don't have a political background so don't hate if this isn't 100% factual.

[ladsin]

Hey another thought out response! I’m always happy to hear one, so thanks for commenting.
1) it may be true that Trump WANTS to maintain the presidency, but I’ve not seen compelling evidence of that. All I’ve seen are jokes as the WP has pointed out. I’ve seen no action towards repealing the 22nd but if he did I’d be staunchly against him.
2) That’s my primary point. Let’s assume Trump’s tweets indicate an actual will to prosecute political dissidents in his administration (which I find gullible) it’s the case that his actions do not reflect that. At least not outside the normal boundaries for American politics as demonstrated by the Obama administrations handling of whistleblowers.
3) That last comment seems a little conspiratorially minded, but in general yes. Skepticism of purported authorities is good in my book.
4) N Korea has jokingly been called an necrocracy as the “supreme leader” is still Kim Jong-il despite his death nearly a decade ago.

[FunkyMonkee]

Barry spent most of his time taking vacations at our expense and playing golf.

[NewUser19]

We should abolish President term limits. Republicans could have a Trump just as Democrats had a FDR

[FunkyMonkee]

Seeing as how he has the power to rescind the two-term limit, if he wanted to, if he WANTS to remain President longer than two term, why HASN'T he already rescinded it? Think of it this way, he's already 73 years old, by the end of his first term, he'll be pushing 75 and at the end of his second term, he'll be at least 78! Even if he DOES rescind it, I doubt he's gonna wanna stay in power into his early 80's.

[Paige90]

Where did you get all this information from? Reagan never tried to repeal the 22nd amendment. Trump knows there is a two term limit.

[Opinion Owner]

@Paige90 www.nytimes.com/.../...-end-of-two-term-limit.html

[jiffyjeff1029]

And for all you climate change people that think we are all going to die in 12 years. AL Gore said that back in the 90s. Hmmm I'm still here.. Now AOC is tooting the same horn. Any of you ever take science classes in school?
We have oxygen in the atmosphere right? Where does this oxygen come from? Hmmmm TREES AND PLANTS CORRECT?

So of oxygen comes from Plants and Trees and Trees absorb Carbon Dioxide then we are safe right?

NASA has a photograph of the Earth right now... Guess what folks?

The earth is greener now then it ever has been. The left wing globalist are using scare tactics to to get the uneducated, misinformed and otherwise complacent population to vote for this Green, New deal. And Guess what this deal is going to do for you. You will pay a carbon tax on every gallon of gas you buy, you will pay a carbon tax on every piece of beef, pork, lamb or poultry that you buy. It's all to further impoverish the people of the United States. The 15 dollar and hour minimum wage will force employers to fire workers and replace them with kiosks because they have to cut cost and raise the prices of they're products to cover the extra expenses. Free education and health care? That will raise our taxes even higher. Trump took us out of the Paris climate accord for a very good reason. The United States was paying the whole bill that would cover all the free loading countries of the world. We have an environmental protection agency here in the states. We scrub our coal emissions before releasing it into the air. NOW WHY SHOULD WE THE American PEOPLE PAY FOR PLACES LIKE CHINA THAT HAVE NO ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION WHATSOEVER? THEY PUMP THEY'RE INDUSTRIAL WASTE INTO THE RIVERS. The free health care and college will raise our taxes sky high. So if you like to pay your bills and eat you all better wise up or your actually going to vote in someone just like Hitler.!!

[goaded]

Does this question mean that you accept that: "The GOP have stacked the maps with gerrymandering and illegal election tricks. The GOP has refused to pass comprehensive voting system protections. Trump has offered pardons to government agents who break laws by following his orders. His, and many GOP'ers are currently under the protection of President Trump. This all ends if Trump is no longer president."?

1. I think the only way he'll get away without prison time when he steps down will be if they can argue that he can't get a fair trial, especially as his co-conspirator pleaded guilty. That's quite an incentive to try to stay on. What sounds like a joke can also be testing the water (like Clinton threatening to run again - do you really trust her not to try?)

2. You're talking about what the media say about Trump, that's not important. He's been talking about having his political opponents arrested, and gone so far as to extort an announcement of a fake investigation into another from a foreign government. And let's not forget about the constant "fake news" mantra.

3. You can question what you're being told by your intelligence agencies, but dismissing something they *all* agreed on (and stood up in court) on the say-so of the leader of the accused nation, is attacking those institutions.

4. You're talking about the letter that looks like a joke? It sounds like something Baghdad Bob would have written; Erdoğan already had what he wanted, and felt free to ignore the letter. The Saudis murdered someone in cold blood, with no repercussions. Russia interfered in the 2016 election (and is still working on it), with no repercussions. Kim is still building and testing missiles and nuclear weapons.

Maybe he doesn't love them, but he sure as hell doesn't stand up to them.

[ladsin]

No, I just figured I covered enough for a start.

1) For what?

2) I didn’t say that... did you read this one? “Obama’s administration actually prosecuted more whistleblowers under the WW1-Era Espionage Act than all other presidents combined. “Since Barack Obama entered the White House in 2009, his government has waged a war against whistleblowers and official leakers. On his watch, there have been eight prosecutions under the 1917 Espionage Act – more than double those under all previous presidents combined” (Guardian).“ Also the quote from Nancy Pelosi isn’t a quote from the media 😂 she’s the Speaker Of The House.

3) Not sure what you’re arguing here.

4) Sure? And Crimea was annexed under President Obama and Obama promised the Russians “flexibility” if he won the 2012 campaign. Not to mention giving Iran boatloads of cash so they could continue to sponsor terror.

Trump isn’t widely outside the norm of American politics. He’s a little more exaggerated sure, but this mad fervor that’s sweeping through the left that Trump’s the second coming of Hitler (or something) is incredibly odd. The dudes really not that odd. He’s a crappy businessman and reality star who won because all the politicians just suck.

[goaded]

"1) For what?"
Really?

[goaded]

"3) Not sure what you’re arguing here."
Come on. It's one thing to choose between competing US intelligence agencies, it's another to choose Putin's word over all of them. And an FBI investigation, which lead to indictments of Russians.

[goaded]

OK, keep pretending that he and Michael Cohen didn't break campaign finance laws. It's been 2 days.

[ladsin]

1) yes, what’s he done that’s outside the norm of American politics to the point of warranting incarceration?
3) still not sure. I’m willing to believe US intelligence more than Putin, I’m not willing to uncritically accept their claims because I know what they’ve done. I know that they smuggled Nazi scientists into the US. I know they’ve murdered dissidents. I know they’ve tried brain washing control techniques. All of this is a plain matter of public record.
—Campign finance law is oftentimes silly. He and Cohen may have violated it by paying off hookers... I honestly don’t care.

[2os4ngeles]

1) I think is okay. The other two, I think you're blinkered.

Trump's rhetoric alone is extremely damaging, and has lead a large part of the electorate to blindly follow their leader and attack the press that is meant to hold him to account. It has resulted in FOX News turning into a literal propaganda channel for the President, full of boot-licking anchors. It has resulted in the Republican party turning into a group of unprincipled boot-lickers. And he lies all the fucking time. That is so damaging a norm to set and so unhealthy.

About institutions: Trump has encouraged police to beat up suspects. He has accused judges of being partisan on account of their heritage. He has - again - made a large portion of the electorate write off the FBI, simply because they investigated him - an investigation that he himself ordered.

If you are apologizing for Trump, sorry, but you have no principles worth having, and your whataboutism isn't going to change it.

What a profoundly damaging man for the world, and for his country.

Regarding dictators, sure, sometimes MSNBC and CNN exaggerate, but he has been far too cosy with them compared to how he has behaved towards others. The fact that he just accepted that the Saudis ambushed and murdered an American resident in their consulate is outrageous.

The defense of him is so staggeringly hypocritical, because everything he complains about, he is himself guilty of. E. g. corruption.

[ladsin]

Alrighty, so let’s go step by step here, it may help you to know that I don’t consider myself a always Trumper. My point here is that the vitriol and apparent exhasperation about him being wholly out of place in American politics is incorrect. He’s not that out of place for the reasons I stated. I do find that Trump’s divisive rhetoric is deepening a growing political divide, but this has been happening and would continue to happen regardless of whether or not Trump was in office. Ie Former VP Biden claiming that Mitt Romney wanted black people back in chains.

“If you are apologizing for Trump, sorry, but you have no principles worth having, and your whataboutism isn't going to change it.” This statement is so strange to me that I can’t believe you actually thought through it. My claim is that Trump is not far outside the normal realm of American politics. How the hell am I supposed to make that case without referencing other American politicians? That’s not whataboutism, it’s literally the entire argument. Secondly I’m not apologizing for trump. I’m making a case that he’s not outside the norm for the reasons listed.

[2os4ngeles]

But he is outside the norms. Just his language. You are young, but just consider previous presidents. There would be an outcry if they had done a fraction of what Trump has done. He just called his opponents "human scum" on Twitter FFS. He has changed the entire public discourse.

[ladsin]

And in 2012 then VP Biden said that Mitt Romney wanted to put black people in change. Accusing your political opposition of being a racist and desirous of slavery > or = tweeting that someone is human scum.

[ladsin]

Chains not change 😑

[genuinlysensitive]

Trump called his political opponents "human scum" = True

The media, and democrats have called Trump Hitler,

https://youtu.be/ZSGkD01lMaw

claimed falsely that he was running "concentration camps" at the border,

www.washingtonpost.com/.../...9b36b64ad_story.html

Openly death threated him personally:



https://youtu.be/090qmm3qRuo?t=15

external-content.duckduckgo.com/.../

Death threated his son:



The media said anyone who supports Trump is a nazi:

thehill.com/.../393618-msnbcs-deutsch-equates-trump-voters-to-nazi-guards-if-you-vote-for-trump-youre

Called for them to be "euthanized"



and where was all this outrage as these events were happening?

[2os4ngeles]

@genuinlysensitive The difference being, none of those people are President of the United States of America.

[genuinlysensitive]

Really its ok to death threat politicians you disagree with? It's ok to death threat their kids? And yet you bitch and whine about "going against social norms" and "dangerous rhetoric"! You are a hypocrite to the extreme!

[ladsin]

I agree with this deli Agee with this fella in that your demonstration that he’s “outside the norm” seems rather moot. He’s done less than others, and the fact that he’s president may be important, but the point is moot so long as we allow everyone running for president to do the same if not worse.

[Anonymous]

Your region is apparent by use of the word "ya'll"-you're obviously one of the bat shit crazies in the South. Trump has trampled constitutional norms, obstructed justice and solicited foreign assistance in his campaign both 2016 and 2020. He is about to be justly impeached and, while Republicans are to cowardly and craven to follow their oath and remove him he will be resoundingly voted out and the Republican party will probably become a regional party, influential only in the South as to your "points"-Trump often claims to be "joking" when he floats ideas and they get huge blowback. That joking excuse is threadworn. No on believes it. Trump HAS threatened his political rivals and even sought to have other countries target them. He is about to be impeached for this and, yes, there is plenty of evidence. Attacking the legitimacy of institutions? Yes he has-from the military to the free press. He even has usurped Congressional powers which he had confirmed by his lickspittal court which he stacked using a stolen seat. Trump's letter to Erdogen? Hardly threatening and Erdogen hardly felt threatened. The betrayal of our commitments has allowed Putin to move into the vacuum-probably Trump's intent the entire time so Putin won't release the Piss Tape. In sincerely doubt you have been "left of center" all your life unless you are judging by southern standards where Fascism is considered the "center".

[ladsin]

Lol that was rather vitriolic. If you’d like to have a more civilized conversation then I’d be happy to do so. As for my personal political views, I was always a slightly left of center libertarian particularly on social issues. In the past decade however the democrats have shifted leftward at twice the rate that the republicans have shifted rightward (Pew research). Because of this shift I’ve now been placed slightly right of center but still libertarian. (Obviously I’m a fan of the four quadrant model)

I’m not sure what being from the southeast has to do with my positions. If you’d like to know my positions you can feel free to ask them.

[ladsin]

P. S. I prefer talking with people who disagree with me more, because that’s the only way to really learn. So if we can have a calm discourse I’d be happy to.

[genuinlysensitive]

It seems the democratic party has adopted a new platform since November 2016: Agree or you are Racist/Sexist/some kind of phobic/Russian agent. Its like writing a computer program. Anything other than "I agree 100%" gets you one of these responses.

[TylerC137]

I like how everyone that hates Trump never points out the actual good things he's done and countries he's aided. I'm not saying he's 100% perfect. Nobody is perfect. That's just like watching a movie and only remembering the bad parts. Trump is obviously sick in the head, but the people that hate him are also sick in the head and need to get a life. The government is controlled by the IRS and corrupt people that have massive amounts of currency. They don't care about the people. Anything you say or vote involving the president is just seen as an opinion to them. They will continue to elect who ever they want based on Congress majority vote.

[ShortCircuit]

I'd like to add that...

1. The only president in history to *actually* serve more than 2 terms was FDR... a Democrat--which is especially relevant in this case because FDR ran and was elected on the Democratic platform *after* the so-called "platform swap" that modern Democrats love to use in order to distance themselves from Dixiecrats. In fact, it could be argued that it was FDR's very own New Deal that single-handedly *caused* the "platform swap".

2. The Espionage Act was passed under Woodrow Wilson (another Democrat) 's administration, in the first place.

... just sayin'

[ladsin]

To be fair though those were both in wartime. Lots of things get suspended during war, just look at Lincoln’s suspension of habeas corpus and jailing of a Supreme Court Justice.

[ShortCircuit]

Just because some principals *are* often sacrificed during wartime doesn't mean they *should* be. War is no excuse.

[ladsin]

Hmm. Hard to say really. Do you, for example, extend this to the seizure of personal assets to assist in a war?

[ShortCircuit]

Um... duh. Lmao

[ladsin]

Interesting, so even though it’s in the national interests (as well as the individuals presumably so they’re not killed by invaders) the government shouldn’t be allowed to seize property. My position would probably be that at that point, the safety of myself and others would override the right to private property. Ie all the action films where a police officer commandeers a citizens vehicle to chase down the bad guys.

[Z3ID366]

I can't see in the near future that the US government won't have presidential election, the US is too much of a stable democracy that a single man could ruin it, as much power the president has he can't make the Congress and the supreme court not rule out some outrageous bills so no he will have to tems tops

[TITAN-IDC]

Trump has to much power, he says criminals go to jail.. 😂👎🇺🇸trump 2020🇺🇸

[ladsin]

Not that Trump wants to, but he certainly doesn’t have that power. The two-term limit is enshrined in the constitution and would require a 2/3 vote in Congress to overturn.

[Anonymous]

Trump haters are idiots. I am concerned about the people who attack him no matter what. I honestly feel bad for some of them, because they are just believing what they're being told. As they've done their entire lives. I'm surprised a bigger deal isn't being made about ABC editing video footage to make it appear to be bombings in Syria when it was in fact, an event taking place in Kentucky. You can't get any more "fake news" than that. Freedom of the press is meant to protect a press while telling the truth about a government and what's taking place. Nowhere does it defend the press's "right" to falsify news and to invent lies about a sitting president. I fear some people will take the lies that the media feeds them about Trump all the way to bed. They just don't care enough to learn the truth.

[supercutebutt]

Real brave, Mr. Anonymous. You know the guy who you support sucks balls when you have to hide your identity to defend him. Sad.

[JohnnySigma85]

I don't hide. Most people who hate Trump can't even give valid reasons as to why they hate the guy.

[Sabretooth]

@JohnnySigma85 there are plenty.

[JohnnySigma85]

I said most. Not all

[Sabretooth]

@JohnnySigma85 it's also important to note that to most-if not all of his supporters-there IS no valid reasons-no evidence will sway them... despite trump's desperate attempt to showcase it... but then, he did call them all idiots live.

[JohnnySigma85]

That's true but others can't even come up with their own reasons as to why they hate him other than just to hate on him.

[Sabretooth]

@JohnnySigma85 shouldn't be hard. frankly, i saw his insanity during his campaign speeches-talking about watching people suffer-then that ''WHAT DIS I SAY? I DON'T REMEMBER!! OH, I DON'T REMEMBER!!! and now, ... i think he did the trans community a huge favor with his ban-he has no idea what he's doing-nor does his administration-watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxL6WE3Ob8&t=9s i've never seen anything like this. and speaking of Syria-he gave his reasons for pulling out in first year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuKxzHSpQY0

[genuinlysensitive]

I remember way back before Nov. 2016 back when the democrats called for Cease-fires and end to wars in the middle east. But because Trump does it they are all of a sudden for endless foreign wars. Its pathetic #walkaway

https://youtu.be/4Pjs7uoOkag

[FunkyMonkee]

What? False claims about President Trump? WHO would DO such a thing? I've never HEARD of anything so ridiculous!!!
1. He HAS the power to rescind the two-term limit, if he wants to! And, even if he doesn't, there's nothing to stop him from taking 2 terms and then running again in 2028 AND WINNING!!
2. Yeah? SO WHAT? How many people have threatened him? Let's see, Johnny Depp, Madonna, little Bobby DeNiro, some woman I just saw downtown today while he was speaking, several hundred others. But THAT'S OKAY!!! Nothing wrong with any of THAT!!
4. To the lefty snowflakes, just saying, "Hi" to Putin & the others is displaying fondness for them!! If he passed one of them on the street and said, "Hey, man, you're shoe's untied." They would've had him taking it up the ass in the heat of passion with each of them!!!

[Randomawkwardness]

Actually, it is illegal to take more than two terms. Regardless of who is running, we have laws against it to protect our country.

[ladsin]

Hmm. Can’t tell if sarcasm or...

[FunkyMonkee]

@Randomawkwardness We do, now, but one of the presidents from the `40's had 3 terms and, like I said, he has the power to rescind that law! How would a two-term limit protect our country... except for keeping crooks, assholes and dictators like Bush, Clinton and Soetoro from staying in power forever? Even if they did, The Constitution is on OUR side! THAT'S what the 2nd amendment is all about!! THAT'S why Hitlary wants it removed so badly!! Without that, we have no (or VERY little) power over them!!

[Randomawkwardness]

It is actually illegal to remove anything from the constitution, we can only amend it hence the amendments. The 2 term would have to be voted on by Congress and Senate and it would be very likely it would not be passed, a 12 year term for a president is far too long. Not to mention, just because you think someone is great and should be president forever doesn't mean they're not a dictatorship. Wanting trump in power forever and for him to get his way would be a dictatorship. Bringing up Hillary has nothing to do with this, the 2016 election was almost 4 years ago and to my knowledge, she isn't running again.

[FunkyMonkee]

@Randomawkwardness Not if he has the power to do so.
Why would 12 years be far too long, as long as he//she isn't screwing over the country and actually doing good things for us. Why would you NOT want to continue on with a winner once you found one?
His way is to make the country as great as it can be! what's so terrible about that? A dictator is someone like Hitler who forces you to do shit you know is wrong threatens to harm or kill you if you don't follow his/her insane rules.
Yeah, it does! She's evil and WOULD be a dictator if she got in! SO FAR, she's not running again! Who knows? She just might! And so might her spawn, Chelsea!

[Janncis]

@FunkyMonkee lets look at it from a bit different angle, anyone who does not allow (by any means) to have a competition for office is dictator. Yes he might not kill his people and be good but still he is dictator.
As far for Trump, while some of his ideas are great and should be implemented. he has no idea of what he's doing, nor have an idea how things should be done. I think he's trying to lead USA as bully trying to lead company. Look art Hitler, there are a lot of similarities to Trump. In fact you guys at USA can do what ever you want, but im afraid that you an drag rest of world into an other terrible war.

Trump is trying to be a bully but he's so deam bad at it. Worst will be when someone will cal him upon it, will call his bluff. At that point all beats are off.

That said i do see why a lot people like him.

[Randomawkwardness]

Hitler wanted to make Germany 'great again' after the end of ww1. They had had their army stripped away and had been utterly defeated. To the common people, the knowledge of the death camps weren't prominent. To them, hitler was in fact restoring their power and making them great again - by any means necessary. A dictatorship wins the people. The people might starve but he wins the people by any way he can. Look at Kim Jung, his country is falling apart and his citizens still worship him as they've been taught to. Even if you think someone is great, a dictatorship is never the answer. Placing that much power in one person is never a good idea, especially someone who is inexperienced.

[FunkyMonkee]

@Janncis "lets look at it from a bit different angle, anyone who does not allow (by any means) to have a competition for office is dictator. Yes he might not kill his people and be good but still he is dictator."
>>>>And, when did Trump EVER do that?
"As far for Trump, while some of his ideas are great and should be implemented. he has no idea of what he's doing, nor have an idea how things should be done."
>>>>He's doing a GREAT job, so far!!!
"I think he's trying to lead USA as bully trying to lead company. Look art Hitler, there are a lot of similarities to Trump."
>>>>Except for them both being guys, I don't see any similarities!
"In fact you guys at USA can do what ever you want, but im afraid that you an drag rest of world into an other terrible war."
>>>>>Yeah, we WOULD have if Hitlary would've won!! She was ready to push the button the second she took the oath!! We certainly dodged THAT bullet!!! You should be kissing our ass for that!
We were you pissed AT ALL with Bush when he started a war with Iraq because he claimed some people in Afghanistan supposedly took down three of the WTC towers with two aluminum cans?
"Trump is trying to be a bully but he's so deam bad at it. Worst will be when someone will cal him upon it, will call his bluff. At that point all beats are off."
>>>>If you say so! So far, no one's been able to top him!! SO WHAT if he wants to be a bully? what'd you EXEPCT him to do, kiss everyone else's ass like Barry did?
"That said i do see why a lot people like him."
>>>>>A lot of us see why we like him, too and it has NOTHING to do with ANY kind of dictatorship!!

[FunkyMonkee]

@Randomawkwardness "Hitler wanted to make Germany 'great again' after the end of ww1.
>>>>>And, you know how he did it? In part, by killing ALL Jews, Jew sympathizers, anyone SUSPECTED of being Jewish or any fags or any blacks!! And starting WWII!! Have you seen Trump doing ANY of that?
"To the common people, the knowledge of the death camps weren't prominent."
>>>>>Kinda sounds like common people here not knowing what's REALLY going on because all they bother to listen to is the fake news and the lies they perpetuate onto the dumbed down masses that blindly believe in all that bullshit unquestioningly!!
"To them, hitler was in fact restoring their power and making them great again - by any means necessary."
>>>>>Aaaand YOU think NOBODY else in the country KNEW it was wrong to kill innocent people for no reason at all, right?
"A dictatorship wins the people."
>>>>>A dictatorship kills and forces people to do shit they wouldn't normally do! Any of that going on here?
"The people might starve but he wins the people by any way he can."
>>>>How many people are starving here? None that I can see!! And, if there are, shouldn't OTHERS that AREN'T starving help out those that are? I'm not a religious nut by ANY stretch of the imagination but, doesn't it say SOMEWHERE in the bible that you should love and care for each other as thy brother/sister?
And, the ONLY way he's winning over the people is by the incredible job he's doing as President!! Now, just IMAGINE, if you CAN, how much MORE he could've accomplished if you nut jobs hadn't been putting him through all the SHIT you've been dumping onto him the past 3 years!!
"Look at Kim Jung"
>>>>>WHERE? WHERE? DON'T LET HIM HURT ME!!! DON'T LET HIM HURT ME!!!
"his country is falling apart and his citizens still worship him as they've been taught to."
>>>>>Yeah, BECAUSE they've been TAUGHT to and, anyone NOT worshipping him will get thrown in jail or killed!!! THAT'S a dictatorship!!! Do you see ANY of that going on here?

[FunkyMonkee]

@Randomawkwardness>>>>>NOBODY'S MAKING ANYBODY switch over to Trump's side, they're doing it COMPLETELY of their own volition!!! And, if they don't, oh, well! Their loss! It's a FREE country!! NOT like Korea. GET IT? Maybe they'll eventually figure it out and come over to the right side.
"Even if you think someone is great, a dictatorship is never the answer."
>>>>>Yeah? Who said it was? Why do you think I refused to vote for Hitlary?
"Placing that much power in one person is never a good idea, especially someone who is inexperienced."
I reiterate! Why do you think I refused to vote for Hitlary? Could YOU get a good night's sleep knowing the button was under HER hand?

[Janncis]

@FunkyMonkee do you really need a history lesson on Hitler? There are a lot more in common about them. And about being dictator, joking once about having more than two terms well yee its a joke not multiple times.
Listen i see you will defend everything he says or do. So do it, but be deamed if if you white wash him or pretend that some hidtory doesn't exsit.

[FunkyMonkee]

@Janncis No, but YOU apparently do! There's a number of books about him.. I'm sure you can find lots of videos about him here on YT.
And I see YOU will tear down everything he says or does! You're the one being whitewashed!! You blindly believe EVERYTHING the fake news tells you to believe!! And then you make up all KINDS of lies based on some incredibly small detail about something he said or did 30 to 60 years ago!

[Janncis]

What ever, you dont seam to be up for discusion, so what ever floats your boat.
by the way im history nerd, i probably know a way more than you on europs history.

[FunkyMonkee]

@Janncis What's the point? No matter what you say you're NOT going to be able to prove that Trump is ANYWERE NEAR as bad as Hitler! It's like trying to compare a Winnebago to tse tse flies!

[Janncis]

Goosh, im saying there are simularities in words and actions, not that he is as bad. Not all things Hitler did were bad, building hightways isn't bad.

[FunkyMonkee]

@Janncis Similarities are there for nearly ANYONE you want to compare! That still doesn't make Trump exactly like those people you want to compare him to. Hitler and Trump both ruled a nation for a short time, therefore, Trump is Hitler! Genghis Kahn and Trump were the same height, therefore Trump is Genghis Kahn! Glenn Close and Trump were born the same year, therefore, Trump is Glenn Close. Farah Fawcett and Trump are partly famous for their hair AND are born the same year, therefore, Trump is Farah Fawcett.

[Janncis]

Well hitler rulled longer than trump by that logic 6ypurs) you gave false statement. Ehh you can defend him till death, if you want. Its obvious that you dont want to see bad side of him. he's just human as you he makes mistakes just as you. Just his mistakes can cost a lot lot more than yours.

[FunkyMonkee]

@Janncis The point is, neither of them ruled forever! Hitler was in for 6 years (according to you) and Trump has only been in for 3, so far and will probably not be allowed to stay in beyond 8 years. Hardly a lifetime ruling. Therefore, it WASN'T a false statement, it was misunderstood!
Ehh, you can put him down your whole life but the fact remains, he's done a WORLD of good things for us and for the entire planet!! Try to ignore it all you want, it's still there and it's still a solid, rock hard FACT!!!
there IS NO bad side of him, so far!! You just keep making shit up out of little pointless nothings!!
Yeah, he's just a human and CAN make mistakes!! Big fucking deal!! So, leave him the fuck alone and let him get on with his work that WE HIRED HIM FOR and he can get even more good stuff done and, like it or not, YOU'LL benefit in the end, too!!
So far, none of his so-called, "mistakes" have cost us anything at all!! Where the fuck were you when George killed over 3000 people on Sept. 11th, and a shitload more in Iraq when they had NOTHING to do with Sept. 11th? Where the fuck were you for Barry's 8 years of illegal presidency where he spent MILLIONS of our tax dollars on vacation after vacation and golf outing after golf outing? Somehow, those facts don't seem to matter to any of you! Only the ones you've made up out of NOTHING just because you wanted us to go to WWIII by having Hitlary win!! A 26 year old boy knows more about this stuff than I do? RIIIIIGHT!! You probably still think Oswald killed Kennedy!!

[Janncis]

Listen thinking that there is no bad side of some human (dont care who) is stupidity at the best. Its like saying you have never ever lied what is a lie in it self. Fact is you dont want to see bad side of Trump, every human has one.
I dont think this discussion has any future, you dont want to see Trump having bad side and im not going to close my eyes on it. So there is simply only dissagreement beatween us. So lets end it here.

[FunkyMonkee]

@Janncis I never said some people, or any specific people, don't have a bad side. Your TDS causes you to put words in other peoples' mouths. Fact is, I HAVEN'T seen the bad side of Trump! Fact is, you REFUSE to see the GOOD side!!
I think this discussion died several comments ago!!
It has NOTHING to do with what I WANT to see!! It has EVERYTHING to do with what YOU want to see! There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see!!
Why the hell not? You've ALREADY closed your eyes to his good side!! Just switch gears!!
You could've ended it before your first comment!

[Dargil]

Thanks to mass media and government schools, half the US population is incapable of logical, fact based, serious thinking. They think that their force of will will get all those unrealistic things they want. But what they are becoming is tomorrow's proletariat, living in an emotional, materialistic, sensual fantasy world, while the other side ("my") side, gradually assumes all the reins of power. Not by choice, but by forfeit of the other side abandoning their constituency and good sense.

[ObscuredBeyond]

The Tide Zombie Level Rating System was developed specifically to measure degrees of anti-Trump lunacy and hysteria by comparing insanity levels to Tide Pod eating. The "eater" who eats the most without complete self-destruction levels up to the point of being able to create Downy-nadoes (like a sharknado, but with purple Downy beads) - all while mutating into something that looks like the troll from Cat's Eye.

The number of times I've had to use this index on some Facebook users, frankly saddens me. They don't even try to be modest anymore. If you wish to know more about this index, there's an article about it on Uncyclopedia: "How To: Survive the TidePodcalypse." Google it.

[ObscuredBeyond]

And to those below curious, Super (not) CuteBehind below is wrong on all counts. She is about a level 5 zombie. And when they make one unsubstantiated accusation of character to back up another, and can't cite a single incident, and call you "racist" when you run them out of unsubstantiated claims, it tells you that they know they're wrong; but are too full of Tide to concede.

Let these types continue to scream helplessly at the sky, while you smile and MAGA. With or without Trump; the New World Order needs to be terminated with extreme prejudice. All their evil human trafficking and power grab desires need to be put to death. And in their place, a divine order over all nations should arise.

[TITAN-IDC]

Supercurebutt is a clown butt. she's atheist, spewing hate by not finishing first debate.. What a clown.. 😀👎

[Anonymous]

Trump doesn’t help himself with his antics. But if you really look at what position he’s in there are people in all directions trying to undermine INCLUDING tax payer funded people in his own administration.

Now the NYT is claiming that an active member of his team is coming out with a “leak” story about Trump... but the guy is STILL working for him!

[ladsin]

Yeah, I’m certainly not a big Trump fan, but the mainstream left response to him is insane.

[Opinion Owner]

Neither am I. But it’s a choice between bad and radical insanity.

[ladsin]

Yeah, I think I’ll have to vote for him next round.

[Opinion Owner]

I will (again). Not because I’m a “trump supporter” but because the left believes ALL trump voters are “trump supporters” makes me want to vote for even more.

[Opinion Owner]

If that makes any sense

[RHK36]

If you can't see why he's an embarrassment then no amount of debate will come close to convincing you otherwise. It's not even hard at all to see why he's bad. Not just as president, but as a person. People that continue to support him are either too stupid or willfully ignoring how bad he is for whatever reason.

That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Enough with the I want to see proof or evidence. The moment anyone shows someone something they'll have excuses ready or ignore it. Y'all just as bad as flat earthers.

[ladsin]

I’m presuming that you also didn’t bother to read the myTake? If that’s the case do you not feel rather like the pot calling the kettle black? You’re literally ignoring what you think might be an argument that goes against your beliefs.

[loveslongnails]

Some people go overboard, but the facts remain that he's a narcissistic, pathological liar. He makes up stories, tries to create his own "facts", and is constantly walking back statements because "nobody understands them but him". Eventually, even his own appointees leave because they can't work with him, or any good ones get fired. As the woman pointed out is her reply, he DOES love dictators, except for one, and that's because he told Trump to fuck off. He's also broken enough laws to deserve his inevitable impeachment, many times over. The sad part is, trumpettes actually DO believe that he's never told a lie... about anything. That too, is an illness. By the way, Pelosi wanting to see him in prison is NO different than trump wanting to see Hillary there, or ANYONE who opposes him. That's why Cohen is there already, because he chose to lie for the liar. Had he turned him in and quit his lucrative job, he'd be a free man today.

[ladsin]

Did you read myTake? My entire point was that President Trump isn’t wildly outside the norm for American politics. Case-in-point, president trump calling “lock her up” isn’t radically different from democrats chanting “lock him up”.

[loveslongnails]

Yeah... you make 4 rather weak points which I didn't feel like debating. Nor did I care to bring up about 500 OTHER idiotic and irrational remarks he's made. We all accept that politicians exaggerate, tell partial truths and spin, so it's up to us to read between the lines. Trump on the other hand, NEVER stops lying, and by never, I mean that 75% of what he says at any given time is anywhere from a partial truth to a full blown "I'm making up shit as I go" lie.

His biggest, most glaring fault besides the lies however, is that he continually disregards his oath to uphold the Law by placing himself above it. He continually looks for ways to get around the law while accusing others of breaking it. As to the "lock her up/ lock him up " chant, he is being mocked for what he started, as he deserves it.

[ladsin]

It’s weak to point out that Trump hasn’t jailed political dissidents whereas Obama did when I’m simply saying that Trump’s not as out there as you claim? What the hell could be a strong point to you then? Christ.

[loveslongnails]

Hmmm... Christ. Yeah, now that you bring it up, he's the self-declared "chosen one" to deal with China. Another joke, no doubt, that we just didn't get. Or maybe Jesus told him ! Yeah, that's the ticket.

[ladsin]

Umm former President Bush said that he spoke to god too. He also said that he knew Putin was a good guy when he saw Putin’s rosary (or whatever). American politicians frequently cite their religious belief, even Buttigieg. So that’s not outside the norm. What’s the most outrageous thing you think Trump has done, that’s a good place to start because presumably if I can show that the worst thing isn’t abnormal then I will have proven my case. If I can’t then you will have proven yours.

[loveslongnails]

You're proving MY point. Bush talked to God, Reagan talked to God, Sarah Palin (not a president) talked to God, and so on. God didn't seem to give very good advice in their cases, did he? It's NOT the norm to cite divine intervention, even though it's been done by President's before. They were just as unhinged as Trump is now, using God as a justification for their bullshit. I'm NOT going to debate or discuss how Trump has lowered the bar, disgraced the office even further, or made a mockery of the law, with you or anyone. It's a waste of my time and energy. It's either obvious to the observer, or not. If not, I can't help you or change your mind because if facts won't do it, I can't do it. So thank you, we're done here.

[ladsin]

Your case then is that while trump is not abnormal in US politics, he somehow is. That’s an incoherent argument as best I can tell. That said it seems apparent that you don’t wish to engage in further discussion and that’s fine, I can’t and won’t try to force you to talk. Have a nice day bud.

[loveslongnails]

What YOU don't understand... is that Trump... has NPD, a real disease, and is a fucking lunatic. We've had many crazy politicians, yes. We have over 500 representatives at any given time. But Trump's psycho behavior is NOT the norm, not by a long shot. That is why I won't continue this discussion. Be well.

[ladsin]

I actually work in mental health for my profession so I think I understand mental illness rather well, at least compared to your average joe. That said I’m not big on psychoanalysis people I’ve never met. But yeah, stay out of trouble.

[jiffyjeff1029]

Um I have an ex wife who is a documented pathological lier and sociopath. I don't think you have the education or experience to be calling Trump a narcissist or pathological lier. I had a narcissistic ex girlfriend also. Bernie sanders called Trump a pathological lier. Number one Bernie is pushing communist lies. Bernie was in the soviet union in 82 rubbing elbows with the communist. A pathological lier, lies so much that he believes his own lies. That Would be Bernie for you.
He lived in his parents basement till he was in his 40s, never held a job therefore has no economic experience whatsoever. A pathological liers first trick is to call others pathological liers to cover the fact the he can't, won't and is unable to tell the truth. Bernie uses Denmark as his model or example of a socialist paridise?
The people of Denmark are not socialist, they are a free market country. Sure they have free education, free health care and other things. But go ask the people of Denmark what schools and hospitals they prefer to use.
They prefer to send they're kids to private schools because the quality of education is better. They prefer to use private health insurance also. Don't believe me then look it up. Trump derangement syndrome is REAL!!
AND WE ARE SEEING a lot OF IT IN THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE THE LAST 4 Presidents have screwed with the education that our kids received for the last 25 years. We have a whole generation of kids that have not been taught proper math, history, Christian values, they have no daily living skills like cooking, budgeting money, work ethics, heck we got kids calling the United States of America a DEMOCRACY?

When the hell did we go from a constitutional republic (like it's stated in the pledge of alligence that we said every morning before class started.). To a DEMOCRACY?

Without the constitution and this being a republic we'd all be speaking German right now

[loveslongnails]

@jiffyjeff1029 Trump is BOTH a narcissist AND a pathological liar. The evidence (thousands of fabrications in entirety, thousands of willful exaggerations, and an undeniable egotism) is overwhelming in both regards. If you can't see that, the problem is with you. What you've presented to refute that, is nothing more than bullshit.

[supercutebutt]

Trump is an idiot. I am concerned about the people who defend him no matter what.

[ladsin]

Did I do that here? Did you read the MyTake?

[GreenPenguin]

While I agree that Trump isn't fit for the job, I still gotta say that your comment really lacks substance. Do you have a reason to say what you said?

[supercutebutt]

@GreenPenguin A reason? SERIOUSLY? How about three years of childish ridiculousness. The guy is an embarrassment. If an individual is unable to recognize it, I can't help them. Every day is nuttier than the last. :(

[ladsin]

So you didn’t read myTake. That’s fine I can’t force you too. I must say it seems willfully ignorant to comment on something with no grasp of what was said.

[GreenPenguin]

Miss... All I asked was that you give us an actual example to show your point. "Three years of childish ridiculousness." isn't an example.

I can say that George Washington was a beaver, but I would never be able to convince anyone of this unless I have anything that actually suggest that he might've been a beaver (He's obv. not a beaver, it's just an example of a statement without substance.)

[Sabretooth]

@GreenPenguin here are a few examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7JvFMpw_ro&t=1s www.youtube.com/watch www.youtube.com/watch

[JohnnySigma85]

Ignorance is bliss.

[Sabretooth]

@GreenPenguin oh, and these drunken ramblings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auEYTG6vg5s there's also Syria-where he help our revivals and out enemies-including isis.

[TITAN-IDC]

The only reason why trump is a idiot is because illegal aliens are going to over throw America.. 😨👎

[GreenPenguin]

@Sabretooth Yes, I know there are a lot of reasons, I was simply asking her to actually make some substance to her opinion here instead of just spewing shit without actually having any clue.

You'll see from my own opinion that I'm not a huge fan of the guy myself.

[FunkyMonkee]

No, it's the lefty, wacko, snowflakes that are the huge embarrassment in this country!! People from ALL OVER THE WORLD are laughing their asses off at JUST YOU!!! They can't BELIEVE how incredibly infantile you are!! If some other country invades us, it'll be YOUR fault for making them think we're all just a bunch of self-important, whiney little pussies!!!

[Sabretooth]

@GreenPenguin plus, i don't particularly appreciate being insulted on live t. v.

[Sabretooth]

@GreenPenguin he actually reminds me of a certain villain “Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! You know, I just... *do* things.”

[morbidmind]

If he's an idiot, then politician's like AOC, Beto, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton. Are mentally ill and should be drugged up on amphetamines locked up in a funny farm.

[Isabel102]

LOL😃

[FunkyMonkee]

@Sabretooth A few examples of the bullshit spewed by fake news every day!

[MarkRet]

There's already enough 'fake news' out there, and there's no need for news outlets to make false claims on Trump, because the reality he gives us is entertaining enough.