No, the number of COVID-19 deaths has not been exaggerated 20x!

goaded

Since the beginning of September, Trump and the Republican party has been pushing the idea that the CDC has suddenly noticed that only 6% of recorded COVID-19 deaths were really deaths from COVID-19. They want you to believe the other 94% of deaths were nothing to do with it.

No, the number of COVID-19 deaths has not been exaggerated 20x!

That is a lie.

They claim it's a new study, but it's not.

It's based on a weekly report by the CDC that's been saying more or less the same thing since at least May. The right wing have just chosen to misinterpret it for propaganda purposes, because the truth makes them look terrible.

This is the report, today:

www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

"Comorbidities
Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities, . "

This is the report from May:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200531070735/https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
" Table 4 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 7% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.5 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups..."

They claim the other deaths weren't from COVID-19, but they were.

First off, why would you insist that a death from COVID-19 and, say, cancer, wasn't a death from COVID-19? They were likely to die some time in the next five years, so getting the virus and showing the symptoms of COVID-19 had nothing to do with it?

I'm not a doctor or medical professional, but I can spot BS. Here are some other resources, if you want to read further:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/false-claim-shared-by-president-trump-that-only-6-of-cdc-reported-deaths-are-from-covid-19-is-based-on-flawed-reasoning/

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/31/facebook-posts/no-cdc-did-not-quietly-adjust-us-coronavirus-death/

Back to "if you want to say it, own it", because anonymous replies are generally worthless.

Oh, and #TrumpKnew it was this deadly on February 7th. 195,259 Americans dead.

No, the number of COVID-19 deaths has not been exaggerated 20x!
4
21
Add Opinion

Most Helpful Guy

  • SirRexington
    Well it's a dumb cop out. It's similar to me saying that a person who died from a gunshot wound actually died because of blood loss, infection, ruptured lung etc instead of acknowledging that the bullet from the gun fired by the shooter caused those things.

    If someone has diabetes and it's under control, it's being managed and there are signs of progress but a deadly virus affects the diabetes which weakens the immune system and attacks the body then it is due to the virus that the underlying disability flared up. Without the virus the underlying cause would have remained just that, underlying. It would have continued as it were.

    For some reason there is a large minority of people who don't even believe Covid 19 is real. Those people are what we call TFGs and no one should give them the time of day.
    Is this still revelant?

Most Helpful Girl

  • 1truekhaleesi
    Thank you for writing a my take on this! I was considering to write a my take on this and turn off comments because I can't handle the conspiracy theories.
    Is this still revelant?
    • goaded

      You're welcome. It was debunked within minutes, but it doesn't seem to be going away, as we have come to expect from today's Republican/QAnon party.

      Turning off anonymous opinions reduces the number of really stupid responses quite nicely.

    • omg i hate the quanon. Did you hear that they think celebs eat babies I'm so disgusted. What's wrong with them to accuse them of that

    • goaded

      @Froyologirl I know, and they're given oxygen by top Republicans.

    • Show All

Scroll Down to Read Other Opinions

What Girls & Guys Said

320
  • Trump imposed travel restrictions quite early and drew heavy criticism from your Democrats. He could find a cause for all forms of cancer and you would accuse him of having invented cancer.
    • goaded

      It's a good job that one thing saved all those lives, isn't it.

    • blondfrog

      Didn't' do it early enough. I guarantee to you after this whole virus things blows over he will take the travel ban off of China. That's because that its too much of a power country to be controlled like that. Not saying the Democrats would have done any better, if anything they wouldn't have done it early enough either.

    • @goaded. In your mind, he only did one thing. Your boss is well known, be as is mine, and neither of us is going to win this debate. I really don't feel like sparring today.

    • Show All
  • WindAtMyBack
    You are doing the same thing you are accusing others of doing.

    Claiming that ALL of the 94% are due to covid 19 is just as bad as claiming NONE of them are. Both are wrong.

    The truth is, that it's not known how many of those people might have died anyway. But it's a certainty that SOME would have died anyway. Which means those death numbers ARE inflated.

    But really, the number of deaths are irrelevant. People die all the time, and even with the inflated numbers, the covid deaths are small in comparison to the normal death rate. It doesn't justify the extreme over reaction.

    The virus is no longer relevant. The number of deaths is no longer relevant. The ONLY thing that the government and the people should be concerned about is to start fixing what is probably the biggest political, social, and economy blunder of the last hundred years.

    Forget the virus. Forget the deaths. We should be completely ignoring that and putting 100% effort into getting things back to as normal as possible. It will never get back to normal. Things have been screwed up too badly for that. Too much of the damage is permanent. But we need to put all of our effort into undoing as much of the damage as possible.

    Worrying about the exact number of deaths is nothing but a distraction from the real problem.
    • goaded

      No, not even slightly. Claiming the world is flat is not as wrong as claiming the world is a sphere. I guess I have to, once again, give the link to the excess deaths per week in the US compared with the last several years:

      www.cdc.gov/.../excess_deaths.htm

      But we should forget two 9/11's per week, the day after the 19th anniversary?

    • I'm well aware of the excess death metric. There is nothing in that link that refutes what I said. If anything it enforces it by showing how much error is in the data.

    • goaded

      I really don't understand this attitude that if something isn't 100% correct, it's 100% incorrect. It seems to be a right-wing thing.

      The Earth is not a sphere, but it's sure as hell not flat. In the same way, covid-19 has killed around 200,000 Americans, it sure has hell didn't just kill 12,000.

    • Show All
  • The_Sword
    take all the deaths of all the comorbid issues, and all flus, and pool them all together, for each year, to perhaps for the last 10 years, tally those up, get some averages, get some highs and low years.

    You discover that COVID is hardly noticeable, it's proportionate with a 'bad flu' year.

    You dishonest intellectuals have always been good at distorting data for your political biases... but seriously, Swine Flu under Obama was seriously more deadly than COVID, and your political hackery is disgusting.

    Its easy to do simply statistical checks, like the one I just mentioned, that debunk all your twisted fake news.

    But it you guys weren't so intellectually dishonest, you wouldn't have anything to spout about.

    The methodology used to arrive at the 6%, is not even something that you properly dispute, or underline, watching you debunk theories that you don't even bother to properly look at... let me guess... echo chamber made you do it, and helps cover up your embarrassingly thin and slimy reframing of reality, by sitting safely admit your mob-mentality.

    Grow a backbone already, and stop producing specious and salacious claims that are largely based on bad faith interpretations, and underhanded sophistry.. but then I guess, you just wouldn't be 'who you are', if you grew up and stopped your childish game of "intellectualism". Seeking narccistic supply through your pseudo intellectualism, having no other way to conceal it but for your tribe's ideological pack hunting, which let's you disguise your vulnerable narcissism: get help already, your thirsty intellectual parasitism is conspicuous.
    • The_Sword

      edit: admit ---> amidst

    • goaded

      The projection is strong in you! (The Swine Flu epidemic killed 12,000 Americans, about two weeks worth of COVID-19 deaths.)

      Go on, then, "take all the deaths of all the comorbid issues, and all flus, and pool them all together, for each year, to perhaps for the last 10 years, tally those up, get some averages" and present your results.

      Or you could just have a look here, where they've done something similar, and it's very noticeable that the number of people dying is way higher than it should be:
      www.cdc.gov/.../excess_deaths.htm

    • The_Sword

      Use the same methodology for swine flu deaths as you do for this novel virus; are you only capable of dishonestly reframing reality, in order to engineer apples and oranges comparisons. The conservatives didn't distort the facts and politicise swine flu, like you slimy ideologues are, yet you continue to echo the same double standards that your position is premises on, like it's Holy Writ.

      Your intellectual bad faith is beyond delusion, its a way of way of life for your pseudo intellectual, fascistic cult members. The Nazi's did the same thing to the sciences, in order to back up their ideological narrative, at some point, you have to realize just how brittle and slimy your neat rationalisations, and convenient talking points are, in order to conform with your already preconceived political attitude.

      Like I said, swine flu was objectively, a more deadly virus. It's doubling time was shorter, it had more people in hospital than COVID did (there were many hospitals that ran out of capacity), it's symptoms were worse, and there was no earlier exposure to the public from a COVID strain, so there were almost no immunity factors in play. The pandemic just wasn't politically trumped up like this one is, because vulnerable narcissism ideologues weren't given the green light, and a array of fake news talking points to give you the wedge you need to collect your sadistically edged, emotional sustenance from propping yourselves up as intellectual authorities.

      lies lies and statistics, the perfect way for pseudo intellectuals to take advantage of any situation. But please, just manufacture some more numbered reasons why your narrative deserves respect, because you've got this issue writing from day 1, leveraging crazy skeptical concerns about antibodies not conferring immunity, and leveraging other delusional, anti-scientufic conjecture that suited you, using pure technical doubt to shape your delusional reality.

      cont.

    • Show All
  • Agape93
    They’ll dismiss you. They care about trump and conservatives. They don’t care about this country or anyone else inside it. To them, the 195,000+ that Trump has allowed to die are nothing.
    • goaded

      I know, it's just to save the time of repeating myself every time this BS comes up. It's the other people reading it that matter.

  • oddwaffle
    If you fall to your death does it count as "fall to your death" or is it because of "coming into an abrupt stop upon contact with the ground"?

    Covid disproportionately kills elderly people because complications arises when they get focus as elderly people tend to have more illness than young people.

    You have to be really dumb or crazy to not see that.
    • goaded

      The underlying cause of death (in the terminology of the CDC) would be the fall, the final cause of death would be what happened suring the sudden stop at the bottom, there wouldn't be any co-morbidities, in that case, because even if you had final stage cancer, it didn't affect the outcome.

    • oddwaffle

      Still, if you get into the details people didn't directly die because of covid-19 but because of the complications.

      The distinction is useful if you want to know the primary cause of death to prevent it. For example, unable to breath, low oxygen in blood or heart failure... etc.

      Useful for academic purposes but not that useful for public consumption. So they are saying the truth, just that they were misleading the public.

    • goaded

      It's still not really the truth, because, like you say, it's the complications/reactions to the disease that killed all of them, it's just in 6% of cases, they weren't listed, presumably because they were the standard complications.

    • Show All
  • marshmallowblue
    Well, technically it is, you see when someone dies and they have 2.5 other serious health issues on top of having a very mild virus like Covid. Doctors don't say that person died from the mild virus, they'll add it the list yes but its not that main cause of death.

    It would be like someone with lung cancer/a heart disease/possibly something else. Only expected to live a year at most, and then when they get the flu, you say they died of the flu.
    • goaded

      If it were a "very mild virus", nobody would be making such a fuss about it.

      COVID-19 is the cause of death in all of those cases. It's exactly like you say in your second paragraph - if you shoot someone who's ill, they die of bullet, not the disease.

      "comorbidities are aggravating factors that decrease the overall health of the patient and weaken their ability to survive COVID-19. Hence, the major difference between a cause of death and a comorbidity is that comorbidities do not trigger the series of events leading to the patient’s death. A person dies from an underlying cause of death, but dies with comorbidities."
      healthfeedback.org/.../

    • Was covid the cause of death for the man that was shot several times and then shot in the head when trying to enter CHAZ? Because his death is added to the covid deaths.

      With diseases the cause of death is what ever had the most influence in the death. Again its stupid to say someone whos has lung cancer and only projected to live for a year at most died from covid or the flu or anything so weak that it takes 2.5 other serious health issues to died.

    • goaded

      Yeah, that first part sounds exactly like fake news; do you have anything to back it up? Like the death certificate, for example?

      You know even 6% of the nearly 200,000 US deaths is about the total number of Americans (counted properly, like the 200,000) who died from Swine Flu, which I'm sure you'd have said was a disaster under Obama until quite recently.

    • Show All
  • wankiam
    great my take... i read just yesterday that 48 percent of americans still believe the trump spin eventhough he himself now admited he played down the truth... says it all really
    • goaded

      Scary stuff. He's always been a jumped-up used-car salesman. Why can't people see it?

    • wankiam

      hypernormalisation dictates that they dont want to see it... truth being scarier than lies makes it easier to just accept the lies... it works on an element of ''ignorance is bliss'' if you like

  • Ad_Quid_Orator
    The true cause of "death" for many leading causes of death are what the people putting fourth the claim that COVID-19s death toll has been inflated 20x would consider to be "secondary". Also as for the case that many coronavirus victims already had pre existing conditions, most people who die of the flue weren't exactly in tip top shape before contracting. Although the Spanish Flu was different and targeted the young and healthy for reasons that are debated to this day.
    • goaded

      The true cause of death for most of them was Trump.

  • NatalieKeller95
    some people died from other things, some people were old and died of natural causes, yet were counted among covid deaths, seems the NWO will exaggerate and lie to us, because they want to control all of us,
    • goaded

      No, not really.

    • um yeah covid deaths weren't the only deaths that happened this year

    • goaded

      No, it just caused more deaths than accidents. (Less than heart attacks and cancer, yay!!)

    • Show All
  • jakerson181
    It seems a pretty simple concept. No matter how sick you were, if but for Covid-19, you'd still be alive, then it's a death due to Covid-19. End of story.

    I admire your attempt to try to educate his supporters with actual information and willingness to chalk it up to the right wing misinterpreting the data rather than knowing exactly what it says and just lying about it. But if they are so brainwashed, so feeble minded that some of them can listen to the Woodward tapes and still think well maybe the tapes take what he said out of context, or are not crazy about what he said on the tapes but it's not his fault anyway, it's all Cuomo's fault cause he put a few hundred recovering patients in a nursing home 6 months ago, if they can believe that, then actual information like what you've shared will bounce off these imbeciles like bullets off of Superman.
    • goaded

      It's not for them, it's for the people who think they might have a point (and to avoid having to repeat myself, over and over).

    • Fair point.

  • I find it comical when a political party knows more than science. Could you imagine spending your whole life studying in this field and running all these tests only for it to be spat on by a large group of people? Then again this is the same party who were anti vaccinaters a couple years ago. This is how you know our country is in trouble. We really are number 1 in everything.
  • MountAverage
    First we had to explain these wackjobs how exponential growth works, then how face masks work, and now what "comorbidity" is. What will be next?
  • SjE78
    actually it's been stated even here in Britain that anyone who dies from something but had covid at any point before they died, even if they recovered from covid... death certificates state they died from covid...
    • goaded

      Really? Who stated that, exactly?

    • SjE78

      pretty sure there have been a post or two, if i am mistaken, however it is actually a proven fact that anyone who has had symptoms of covid or suspected and then died of other injuries have had their cause of death marked as Covid

    • goaded

      I have my doubts, especially as it's in the government's interests to keep the numbers down, not inflate them.

    • Show All
  • Regmorus
    1. Well, first of all: I would never have shared opinion on this question if you hadn't had invited me.

    2 . In my opinion it looks like that: You give the fault to CoVid, they give the fault to other conditions. Each of you is simply pushing their own agenda - as evaluated by me with no regard of possibility that you or them might be or might be not right in reality.

    3. This changes however if you have already aquired certain knowledge from reliable sources with solid medical/scientific background that the majority of these deaths should be accounted as primarily caused by CoVid.

    I personally am not up to researching these sources at least for now and hence to me statement 2 is the truest for time being.
    • goaded

      OK, I guess expecting you to read the links is unreasonable.

    • Regmorus

      Well, I had the impression (I did not read) these links will only support your claim that the logical interpretation of the quotation of statistics, the interpretation given by Trump's administration was wrong, but will NOT give clear scientific/medical evidence that those 93% or 94% of deaths had as their primary cause CoVid.

      Am I wrong?

    • goaded

      Yes: "the death certificate explicitly defines comorbidities in Part II as the “other significant conditions contributing to death but not resulting in the underlying cause of death”. In other words, comorbidities are aggravating factors that decrease the overall health of the patient and weaken their ability to survive COVID-19. Hence, the major difference between a cause of death and a comorbidity is that comorbidities do not trigger the series of events leading to the patient’s death. A person dies from an underlying cause of death, but dies with comorbidities"

    • Show All
  • RolandCuthbert
    You are wasting a lot of good information here.

    :D
  • bulletbob555
    Here's the thing I've been thinking about this a lot. During some war the U. S. started making counterfeit money in what ever country it was. The idea was to shake the peoples confidence in their monetary system. I think its kinda like that now. Everything and everybody is lying that way people won't believe the truth about whats being said. Everything is false news part of a conspiracy etc. I still believe most news and reporting to be factual.. I'm sure there is at least one network that doesn't tell the truth the enquire mag that doesn't care to vent or verify their articles. Most journalism is factual with a slight bias towards their ideology but pretty much the truth. BBC is supposed to be the only reporting without bias
    • goaded

      You mean the country's being flooded with fake news in an attempt to destabilise trust in the media, in the same way that counterfeit money was supposed to destabilise the economy? I think that's right, but it's not just coming in from overseas, there's a whole political party that's using it as a weapon (again).

    • Yes and I didn't say which one party either. Although only one seems to be involved. Yes you are correct in people losing confidence about the facts

    • goaded

      Oh, I don't mind saying which party, especially with Trump's administration just sanctioning one of Guiliani's contacts for being a Russian agent and interfering in the election.

      " The U. S. Treasury Department on Thursday placed sanctions on a member of Ukraine’s parliament for running an “influence campaign” against former vice president Joe Biden, dubbing the lawmaker “an active Russian agent for over a decade” who has maintained “close connections with Russian intelligence services.”

      The sanctions against Andriy Derkach — who in an attempt to tarnish the Democratic nominee for president released pilfered and edited phone conversations that Biden had years ago with Ukraine’s leadership — come less than two months before the 2020 presidential election and mark the most aggressive public action the U. S. government has taken to date to staunch foreign interference ahead of the vote."

  • *Yawn*
    The flu has been around for so long, it's almost sad watching people get so worked up over it. It's unfortunate old people are so susceptible to it and that many have auto immune disorders and whatnot. But it's the same with a regular flu. It only seriously affects those with already poor or compromised health.
    And before you say it's killed people who were perfectly healthy; they were not. They were overweight or had some other condition that compromised their health.
    • goaded

      Am I keeping you up? It's not flu, it's a different virus, and it's killed many times more people than any flu epidemic in the last 100 years.

      It seriously affects people who haven't got poor or compromised health, and 40% of Americans are obese, let alone just overweight.

    • Wewladdy

      Uhhhhhh... buddy, you haven't looked up the number of deaths from the regular flu, have you?
      "40% of Americans are obese."
      Well now they have extra incentive to get in shape, don't they? I used to be fat myself. It's not impossible like they seem to believe.

    • goaded

      I'm guessing we've never had a conversation. Of course I've looked up the numbers of flu deaths, and even in a bad year, with no masks, social distancing, or lockdowns, it kills far fewer people than COVID-19 has in the US. Look it up.

      No, the number of COVID-19 deaths has not been exaggerated 20x!
      No, the number of COVID-19 deaths has not been exaggerated 20x!
      https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/

  • 007kingifrit
    i think you're just desperate to make the virus seem worse than it is so you can push your agenda, its the only time you and your silly kind get paid any attention.

    here is one line that debunks your whole post

    "They were likely to die some time in the next five years, so getting the virus and showing the symptoms of COVID-19 had nothing to do with it?" yes, if they were already dying then it isn't really a covid death.

    now go on, list the same tired statistics you do everytime you're challenged and we'll all go back to ignoring fearmongers like you
    • goaded

      Amazingly I wasn't saying that they all were really going to die in the next five years, but trust you not to understand. (You know when Trump says he was asking something "sarcastically", this was an example of what that really looks like.)

      Those tired statistics? You know, just two months ago, you were saying "per capita is the only statistic worth using as it accounts for different population sizes", and I was saying "The best you can hope for is that Brazil and Russia overtake you as France, Spain, and Italy get it under control (although a second wave seems to be coming)."
      Did America handle the pandemic well? ↗

      Well, the US is now at nearly 600 per million, up from 363, back then, having overtaken France, Sweden and Italy. You'll probably have overtaken Spain in three weeks time, and I was right that Brazil did overtake you.

      France had 20 deaths per million since that post, the US has had over 230. I'm not saying the virus is the end of the world, just that almost every country in the world is doing ten times better than the US, in dealing with it right now.

    • it was your example, from your own post, and now you refuse to respond to it

    • goaded

      "Amazingly I wasn't saying that they all were really going to die in the next five years, but trust you not to understand. (You know when Trump says he was asking something "sarcastically", this was an example of what that really looks like.)"

    • Show All
  • pizzalovershouse
    great post an i get people here keep telling me covid19 is not real i believe its real an kills no matter what the fools say
  • captain_voidwalker
    Yes they are over inflated, covid may ha e complicated these peoples conditions but so would the flu and we don't shutdown for the flu. Covid is just a mild flu always has been always will be. I won't begrudge the initial shutdown because we didn't have as much data back then, but we peaked in April and all shutdows after April are purely political in nature. The entire argument about covid needing to be contained went out the window when democrats said its 100% ok to go out and riot and burn shit to the ground, but if you want to protest having your business shutdown or not bieng able to go back to work you will be arrested. As if a virus would actually be able to tell the difference between one group of people or another. Stop letting the mainstream media play you like a fiddle they are using your irrational fear of basicaly the common cold with a scarier name for ratings and political leverage.
    • goaded

      I don't suppose there's any point in pointing out the difference between a few thousand mostly local, mostly masked, people exercising their first amendment rights, and, for example, holding a meeting of 400,000 mask-less people going to bars from all over the country? Or campaign rallies with people you've convinced the virus is a hoax?

      The numbers are not over inflated, and a "mild flu" does not kill nearly 200,000 Americans in less than a year. And, yes, it's killing many of the same people who would have been killed by the flu (funny how nobody says those numbers are over-inflated), but even discounting them, it's killed a lot of people more than would have been expected to die this year.

      public.tableau.com/.../WithAndWithoutCOVID

    • Well let's just take a lookin see shall we flu kills on average between 25000, to 62000 per year. And i can already hear your a ha captain clearly you are wrong flue is kill 1/4th the people. But as grump always likes to say "Wrong" flu deaths are only counted when it is strictly death by flu not with comorbiditys like corona. So an accurate comparison is to take the 200,000 covid deaths and multiply that by 0.06 which gives us 12 deaths by covid. So no covid is intact when counted correctly half as deadly as influenza. Next time you wanna shoot with math guns you best get accurate statistics and check your methodologies

    • goaded

      12? C:

    • Show All
  • yulbsari
    Wonderful my take!
  • startrooper2345
    Good post.
    • goaded

      Thank you. It's amazing how many people will continue to defend things like this, even when they must know they're wrong.

  • Browneye57
    More whining. Just put your mask on and STFU. LOL
Loading...