Another step forward: From walking in the shadow of men to being equals

[Ez-Bri-Z]

A women's rights article on G@G? I apologize to those in the comment section now.

Between all the headlines of the pandemic, vaccines, and politics you may have missed some pretty historic moments in the continued march to equality for women across the world. During the Tokyo Olympics, the German women's gymnastics team opted to wear full-body instead of bikini-cut unitards. In a European match, the Norway women's handball team were fined for opting to wear shorts instead of the required bikini bottoms mandated for women. Several other events this year have seen women fighting back against the blatantly sexist uniform requirements by leagues. How bad could it be? Here are the standard uniforms side by side for the Norway men and women's handball teams.

Clearly they ran out of fabric towards the end of the uniform design stage.

While the women's team did get fined, the governing body of that event did agree to go back and review standards going forward which hopefully they actually take seriously and change.

So why is this so historic? Well, because it is one step closer to equality for women in comparison to men. Now, for those of you rolling your eyes and groaning right now, please try to understand that whether you agree or not, there are still blatant things that women have to deal with daily that are degrading that some men either never notice or care about. Dress codes are definitely one of those. Take for example, Bartram Trail High School down in Florida. 80 different female student's had their photos digitally altered to cover parts of their shoulders and chests up. How bad were these photos?

Avert your eyes children lest you be lured into temptation!

So, what standard are women supposed to be at? If we wear too much clothes we are fined and ridiculed for not being sexy enough. If we wear something even slightly revealing we are censored and shamed as being whores. Way too many times, even here on this site, there have been the truly sick and depraved individuals who think that it is ever ok to blame the woman for her style of dress if she is ever sexually assaulted or raped. Let me just make something clear right now. It is NEVER ok to sexually assault or rape anyone else, regardless of what they were wearing or where they were walking. Stop victim blaming and focus on heavily punishing the morally twisted individuals who think those actions are ever justified. Speaking of morally twisted individuals being punished....

This guy, seen here measuring up the next body part to grab.

It is finally nice to see men in power get their comeuppance for years of abusing their powers to sexually assault individuals around them. I have said this before and I will say it again; I do not care if you are Republican or Democrat or a member of any other political party, people like Andrew Cuomo need to be punished and removed from office when credible accusations arise. Trust me, I am fully aware former president Trump has even more credible accusers and should be suffering through the same fate and hopefully he will. The problem we face is that people tend to get REALLY blind when it comes to people of their own political leanings and REALLY eagle eyed when it comes to members of another. We have got to stop playing political bias when it comes to people like those two. This is not a political debate point. These are the people we elect to lead us as a society, who are using that power, that we the people gave them, to sexually assault the same people who gave it to them. That should never be ok.

The #Metoo movement, originally coined in 2006 but really taking a life of its own in 2017, started giving women a louder voice in this space. Those brave individuals had to endure the initial abuse, as well as, secondary waves of those out there calling them liars while defending their fallen celebrity heroes. The steps they took is what helped get people to start believing women who have been assaulted and stepped forward to tell their stories in situations like the Cuomo case. The rich and famous should never have a free pass to sexually assault or rape anyone.

I already know now we are going to have all kinds of comments dismissing this MyTake. They are going to downplay the significance of a stand for uniform change in sports as meaning anything useful. That's fine because I know they are slowly becoming the minority in this fight for equality. Thanks to the brave women who take the brunt of those attacks for the rest of us and the support of men with a strong ego to not feel threatened by those same women, progress is being made. Yesterday it was forcing the issue in standing up against sexual violence. Today is equality in dress codes. Who knows what tomorrow brings as the next step in equality? I just know I am excited to see it happen so one day we can all start to walk beside one another and not have one sex walking in front of the other.

[exitseven]

You make a lot of valid points. I too am glad to dee Cuomo removed from office however it is disappointing he will probably never answer for killing all those nursing home patients and covering it up.
The girls handball uniforms are a prime example of sexism in the Olympics. Let's face it, the Olympic committee is as crooked as they come. Why wouldn't they be sexist too?
It is a shame this movement is only gaining ground because of politics. It cheapens it and brings it down to the level of Black Lives Matter as just a way for politicians to pander for votes.
I would like to know what ground breakers like Gloria Steinem think about the Me Too movement.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I feel the same way about pride and black history months. They use those events to get support for 1 month and don't care the other 11. Just slap a rainbow on merchandise and profit from us. I hate it

[exitseven]

Yes, I try to be honest about all this stuff. I work in higher education and it often does not mesh too well with them. I do my job and try to keep my mouth shut but I refuse to apologize for my anti PC attitude.

[supercutebutt]

It's also a shame Trump was never punished for raping the lady in the changing booth or for lying about the virus that went on to kill over 600,000 Americans or for inciting the insurrection that injured and killed those poor police officers. :(

[exitseven]

@supercutebutt Another country heard from/

[Michael49]

Well i both agree and disagree with u. They should be able to wear what they want but at the same time don’t complain about equal money because who in there right mind would watch most women’s sports unless they dressed scantily? Then it trickles down to losing ratings which leads to losing sponsors.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I don't watch any sports at this point, but I sure as hell wasn't watching women's sports for how they were dressed. I mean, look at women's soccer. It was way more popular than the men's team and they didn't have to do it in bikinis. The athletics are there, the problem is that people still don't take women seriously as athletes and they really should.

[Michael49]

I said that I agree with the fact that there are cases that their apparel is somewhat revealing. But please do not say they are not taken seriously. The biggest reason the women’s soccer team has had so much success is because it is so well funded compared to other countries. In the last women’s world cup the US team has more sponsorship money than over half of the other teams combined. I coach college baseball and every year universitys are dropping mens sports because of Title IX which makes colleges give scholarship money equally split between men and womens sports. College football and basketball generate billions of dollars meanwhile womens basketball is the only sport that is profitable and it was only $32 million. And i haven't seen any NCAA womens teams compete in bikinis. So if the mens teams funding full scholarships for over 100,000 girls a year isn't taking them serious then you are not seeing the big picture

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I promise you, 100% without a doubt, if Title IX didn't exist they would have cut those sports long ago. It isn't that they take women's sports seriously now nor does the general viewing audience. They get that funding because they have to do it.

If anything you help bring up my point for me. You bring up the profitability of women's sports. If society on the whole really took it as seriously as men's sports then funding would never be an issue.

[Michael49]

Title IX is an excellent statute and I support it 100%. I am around it daily and the women work just as hard if not harder then the men. But in the meantime you take a shot at the mens soccer team. You wanna come on this site and rant how womens athletics aren't taken serious but admit that you don’t watch them. Where do you think the money comes from? Ticket sales is about 5% and the other 95% is from TV rights. If people like yourself don’t watch the television ratings suck and they generate no money

[Ez-Bri-Z]

In all fairness, I don't watch TV whatsoever. I don't even have cable. I can't even remember the last time my tv was even on. It isn't that I am not supporting them specifically.

[Michael49]

Oops i replied to the wrong message. Hahaha stupid men

[Ez-Bri-Z]

lmao that poor guy is really confused, but you know what? Now we guarantee that at least 1 other person saw our banter

[Michael49]

Hahaha i can see him scratching his head now

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I think it has more to do with the simple fact that most men watch sports and most women don't.

Combine that with the fact that men's sports are usually the highest level of performance,

And the fact that most ladies who watch sports still watch men's sports more then women's and you see why the guys bring in ten times the audience and ten times the money.

I bet the uniforms make almost no difference to the profits.

Porn is free and readily available. Would you really pay per view a basketball game to see laidies in sports wear?

Hey, wait, doesn't women's basketball bring in way more money than most other female sports and have uniforms pretty much the same as the men's? 🤔

What makes you think that it has something to do with making more money? In my experience it's just what most women prefer to wear.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I would wonder if it is women's basketball or women's soccer because that is pretty popular in itself. I honestly don't know the answer to that one and I'm too tired to go look right now.

We haven't had the advertising revenue guys have because unfortunately women in general, not just athletes, still don't have that same level of respect in this country from both men and other women. Some are still buying into this mindset as women being second rate knockoffs and that simply isn't true.

My personal guess in the end is testosterone. Sports drive the testosterone level up and men's sports are the pinnacle of testosterone. Growing up, a lot more guys in this world played at least one sport and so still maintain a level of interest in it. It is also something more typically associated to bonding in men than it is in women. I know in my case, I only got into sports originally to spend time with my brothers (playing basketball or street football with them) and watched football because of my dad. I don't think I've watched a game in years because those bonds have sort of been broken between all of us.

As for your comment about porn, I'm sorry but that is such a bad analogy. Porn is free and guys still stare at women walking around them and make lewd comments or worse. So yeah, even taking into account posts from the guys on this take so far, yeah they only watch because they are hoping to see sanctily clad women bounce around. Once again, a testosterone driven decision.

Also, you have really got to stop with the thinking emoji in every single post. It makes you look condescending and you use it in the worst places.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Soccer is another perfect example where they wear totally normal uniforms.

I don't think anyone but you believes that women are or are treated as second rate in 2021. I think the revenue difference is between less people watch women's sports. There are as many or more women as there are men, so you can't blame men for that. Most women don't pay to watch women play sports. You don't. How is that my fault? How is that male opression?

Point is nobody is watching sports to see women in bikinis. I stand by that. You think it's sexual, I don't. I would watch porn if I wanted to get off on women without clothes on.

You have really got to stop hating the thinking emoji and start considering logic that doesn't support what you already believe. That smartest person in the world won't learn anything if they only consider what they already believe.

I love the thinking emoji. The fact that it gets under your skin means it's making it's point.

But it's not an attack. It's a suggestion.

The two. most profitable women's sports don't wear anything different than the men do. So, how do you think the uniforms are forced on female atheletes to drive up profits?

It's literal just depends on the sport. People wear what makes sense.

[backblueblack22]

@ez-bri-z Title IX destroyed several men’s college wrestling programs. Lots of guys lost scholarships and opportunities thanks that crap. Meanwhile coaches had to recruit walk on women’s rowers.

[f_ckjoebiden]

bang on nine and your dead on time

[f_ckjoebiden]

How awesome did that WNBA Chicago champion welcoming committee go?

[ADFSDF1996]

Feminists back then: “Women shouldn’t have to cover up! Let women show off their bodies!”

Feminists now:” Women should cover up more often! Women are too sexualized!”

How about you wear whatever you want and stop blaming the fictional boogeyman known as the “patriarchy” and also stop telling your fellow women what to wear.

[Mia-Wallace]

"If we wear too much clothes we are fined and ridiculed for not being sexy enough. If we wear something even slightly revealing we are censored and shamed as being whores."

Well, there is something called context. If you can go nude on a nudist beach, that does not mean it is "sexist" to throw you into jail for walking nude on the streets. I'm quite sure you could program a machine to understand that.

It is possible to not be primarily motivated by misogyny or misandry and have different sexualization requirements (and yes, sexualization is a requirement in some careers for both genders) and opposite standards for dress codes in two different jobs and two different spaces and for different genders. In different contexts, like I mentioned. In each "context", it could be a group of men or women or just a group of people from both sexes that decide the dress codes for women or men. It could also be catering to women's or men's sexual desires or both. Sexual desires are not "sexist" in and of themselves and catering to them is not necessarily harmful, but even if they are statistically as/more harmful as/than they are beneficial in some contexts such as prostitution, there is no proof there is necessarily a causal relationship between sexism (as one variable between dozens) and the harms sexualization in that certain context causes. And it is certainly not the only factor that correlates with the subject, let alone the ultimate cause.

But are we actually after details and analyzing the benefits and harms of each and very factor? Or just feeling good or bad by painting a grim or rosey picture of a complex reality?

In general, spouting normative statements often based on false premises about complex issues that are based on dozens of variables is easy. Seeing the world in descriptive terms is hard, but often generates real results. You could passionately shout X or Y is a "step forward" towards Z (which might sound "true" in the theoretical context of an "ism" but hardly practical or different than or preferable to the status quo) and then see it backfire or cause another problem. Happened a bit too many times in history because humans partly function by making value judgements. It's just that their judgements can be based on nonsense and illusions.

Bottom line, I prefer to stay indifferent and look at the numbers.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Very interesting take.

Context in the case of either provided example in this case isn't really the issue here. If I were making a debate as to why girls couldn't take their high school photos in a bikini then I feel this would have been a better point to bring in context. My point was based solely within the 2 examples provided. When asked to be on the same footing as men and wear shorts, women were fined for taking a stance on equality. When girls wore clothing that was perfectly acceptable to walk around in school in, they were digitally altered without being told to cover their shoulders and chests.

Participating in the Olympics should NEVER be about the sexualization of any of the athletes. They are simply there to show off their hard work and training to compete against the world's best athletes from every country. We all know it is possible for alternate clothing to be worn during these events. Look at the Rio games when Egypt was competing in women's volleyball.

Normalizing the sexualization of females instead of focusing on their actual training in just about any sport is insulting. Making it ok and telling the general audiences that sexually objectifying women is fine has consequences in other areas as well. If it is ok to do on TV, why is it not ok for them to do in public too? In spaces where the whole idea is for sexualization to be prominent such as porn, prostitution, strip clubs, etc then ok I am with you that the job comes with an expectation of heightening the sexual desires of patrons.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

As for your last statements of spouting normative statements, no solution is perfect but we cannot let the fear of a possibility of failure prevents us from trying to make that progress regardless. It teaches us what mistakes can and will occur and gives us a road map for the next step forward. So I disagree that it isn't practical nor is the status quo preferable. If it was preferable then the women participating in both of these occurrences would have never stood up to begin with. If we feared the drawbacks of what change would bring or if it were practical, who knows if we even take the steps to get women the right to even vote.

You can approach this overanalytically and debate the rate of success and stand on the sidelines as change goes forward, because I assure you change will occur despite analysis. When it does occur, you are more than welcome to review and provide data as to the overall impact each step added to the overall picture. I, on the other hand, will be cheering on those who were bold enough to take those stances and drive that narrative of equality forward.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Unsurprisingly the ladies say it better than the men do.

But I do have 2 questions.

One, Did you just cite the Olympics allowing Egyptian women to play in head to toe religious gear as an example of systematic sexism forcing women to "strip" to compete?

Not to mention, they were allowed to play in their shorts for a negligible fee that was simply already a rule for anyone (male or female) who broke the uniform rules.

Two, if most women have a problem with it, why has it been unquestioned and uncontested for so long? Women were happy to speak out for wardrobe freedom in the 60's. Why would they not speak out about the oppressive bikinis sooner?

Why did only one team do it?

And why does a vast majority of women choose to wear a bikini Instead of a one piece or board shorts at the beach if it isn't preferable?

Just because one person or one team doesn't like it, doesn't mean it isn't preferable to most of the participants.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Three, what part of wearing athletic gear is sexual?

I get that you are gay, but guys are totally cool playing shirtless with other guys. It's not a sexual thing.

Even all out nudity is not the same as objectification. Some would say it's natural, and you are just being a perv.

Stop oggling those women and making them uncomfortable! Don't you know that is extremely offensive?

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

My cat is always naked.

It's not sexual at all.

My sister and I tried to make her wear clothes one time and she literally pretend she couldn't breath until we took them off.

I was furious with my sister for strangling my cat, but she is a vet and an animal rights/behavior expert. She checked, and nah, literally my cat is full of shit. She could breath fine she just prefers to be naked.

But, where does the sexualization come in?

Nudity isn't sexual until you look at it that way. It's 100% natural and not seen as sexual at all in any species other than humans.

I think being forced to wear clothes at all is a strange and oppressive social construct unique to humans.

And a lot of women agree. Haven't you seen the free the nipple marches?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I've already answered you in other locations. I can't take you seriously when you talk about your cat being naked and it being sexualized. You are just being weird now. Please review my answers to you in other threads since you seem to chain post in a lot of them

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I said it isn't sexual.

I don't understand how you don't understand and point or analogy that doesn't support what you already believe.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

*any

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I can't take you seriously when you think naked cats are weird and athletic gear is targeted sexual sexualized opression.

[LightEnd]

Women are already equal. Now all of this is just reaching. We're playing overtime even though the woman's team already won.

Women should be allowed to wear modest clothing whenever they want. I'm just confused because usually feminists are arguing against purity/modesty.

Oh wait now I understand!

Men "you should wear more modest clothing"

Feminists " I can dress however I want and I do it for MEEE! I'm not trying to attract attention!"


Men "You need to wear this tiny piece of cloth for a uniform"

Feminists " Ugh! I'm so embarrassed. Patriarchy!!!


It would really help if the Feminist message was coherent. We all agree with the basic idea that women are equal to men in everything except biology.


Feminism is ruining society and there are a lot of unhappy women because of what's going on.

If a women wants to have a career and just sleep around I think that's fine. Go girl!
If a woman stays happy single and working hard then great!

The problem is when a woman hits 35 and changes her mind and decides she wants a family and a husband. Obviously this doesn't happen to all women but a significant portion of them.

Now she doesn't have the same options she did when she was younger and more attractive/fertile. Now she has to pick from the leftovers.

I really really feel sorry for these women.

You can find them in their 30s and 40s on the internet writing articles like:

"where have all the good men gone"

"How feminism ruined my life"

One of the biggest 2nd wave feminists is now speaking against what feminism has become and regrets chasing her career instead of family.

I can't recall her name. I will find it and post it as a reply Incase anyone wants to look into it.

All in all, the battle is over. There are NO rights or protections that men have that women don't.

There ARE rights and protections that women have that men don't.

If you truly wanted equality you would be a MRA. Because average men are the persecuted gender in the western world.

[LightEnd]

Fay Weldon and her book "death of a she devil"

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Gosh I knew this article was going to draw you kind of guys out but you really went all in telling me about how we are equal.

Well, if LightEnd from G@G says the fight is over then it guess my work here is done!

Question though, just for curiosity sake... actually a few.

Now normally I wouldn't post such a non scientific site, but since the numbers are from the US Census Bureau I will make an exception here. Why is it that the marriage age has gone up almost a decade in the last 100 years? I am guessing it is because we are realizing we don't actually need to rush into anything like you seem to suggest.

www.brides.com/what-is-the-average-age-of-marriage-in-the-u-s-4685727

Picking from the leftovers, huh? I guess that is great news for the seemingly massive number of incels that seem to running around lately. All they gotta do is look for unmarried women in their 30s and they will get a free pass right to her bed so she can get pregnant. Sounds to me like we solved two problems at once, huh? Oh... something tells me your whole "significant portion" isn't quite right.

Men on the other hand...

www.census.gov/.../marriages-and-divorces.html

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Congratulations by the way on naming 1 person who ever had a personal regret who just also happened to be a feminist. I am a feminist and I got married and we had our kids. She choose not to. Feminism isn't to blame, her own personal decisions are. She is using feminism as a scapegoat.

Now I will be the first to admit that there has definitely been some radical feminists out there. They give everyone else a bad name. They are the ones who give the encouragement to men like yourself to post things telling us the battle is over when it so clearly is not. Try reading some of the other messages here and see what men say about us and how we are useful for our sex appeal only. You know it really bugs me that some guys swear up and down that women are out here staring at a man's wallet and that is all they see of them, but then turn around and stare at her tits and think that is perfectly fine.

Feminism at it's core is about equality. It means if she wants to wait to have a family that she isn't going to hear someone say "oh your biological clock is ticking and you should put your career on hold." They don't do that to guys. There are many ways to still have a child even naturally if you want to wait til you are older than 35.

That equality means that I can feel safe wearing something that I like (and is perfectly legal) without feeling like I can walk somewhere without some guy feeling the need to follow me and make lewd comments or leave me worried that he might be the one to take it too far. Guys worry about maybe getting mugged. We have to fear that and things like being raped. Experience that for a while and tell me we are equal.

Being equal means not having someone like yourself tell me something I know is not true about our equality. Legally we have a lot of protections in place, but we shouldn't need them. That's the whole point. If we had equality those kinds of things wouldn't need to exist.

[LightEnd]

LOL. This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever read. You don't make any sense.

"Being equal means not having someone like yourself tell me something I know is not true about our equality"

? Didn't you just tell me something I know is not true about our equality?

Your double standards are showing. Please cover them up.

I have no energy to argue with you, especially when you can't make sense or argue logically.

I sincerely regret commenting on your post and I promise from this day forth I will leave every feminist alone totally and will not engage with them.

It's like arguing with a child.

Infact screw this app. I came here to try and help but reading this kind of nonsense has made me realize this is a total waste of my time.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I think as a woman I'm more qualified to speak to what setbacks we still face. You trying to dictate to me that they don't exist is laughable.

Also, sorry your brain broke. Probably for the best anyway, thinking doesn't seem to be your strong suit.

[LightEnd]

Wasting my time isn't my strong suit. Have fun, hope you become equal with us before you die

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I know you couldn't keep your promise of never talking to a feminist again. That lasted all of two minutes.

I'd make a joke about your sex life maybe having less stamina than your self control posting here, but well, that would just be mean.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I think you are right about most of that.

But I find it really strange how you think that letting women play sports in sports bras is sexist, and so is banning sexually provocative atire for school photos/dress code. At the same time.

The girls on my cross country team were furious that they had to wear shirts while running when the guys didn't. But it's almost always the female teachers who want to measure girls shorts and dress them like the Amish.

Guys really don't care. I don't know any guys who tried to enforce the school dress code on their female classmates or force them to run without shirts on. It's usually the women who make those rules. (The coach was a man. But he was very open about the fact that he didn't care what they wore he just didn't want to get in trouble with Deloris Umbridge)

Profesional sports generally have standard uniforms for everyone. Yes, the girls and guys are different, but the fact that all the players in league have to wear the same thing isn't sexist. Most women don't want to compete in shorts and a T-shirt. You don't see a lot of Olympians wearing board shorts, even most of the men wear Speedos because they run/swim/jump better.

What makes you think it's sexism? I would bet the ladies chose the uniforms. Even if there are some who don't like them. That applies to men too.

When women actually had less rights than men, short skirts were illegal and the ladies didn't like that.

But I've never seen a male teacher stand at the door and measure girls clothes to stop them from wearing shorts too short or straps too thin. It's always the female teachers. If the male teachers do get on someone's case, it's generally with an apology along the lines of "I just don't want to get in trouble with my boss"

You can't claim that just because the women's league has a different standard than the men's that it's systemic opression of females. Seriously. Are you an athlete? Do you know many athletes? Most female atheletes chose to wear sports bras. Most men either wear the T-Shirt or no shirt at all. There was one guy at the track who wore a bra but... It wasn't popular. A lot of people thought that was pretty strange.

In my experience, females are at least 100% more likely to attack another female (or a guy for that matter) based on what they are wearing, and demand that everyone dress they way they want them too.

I think freedom to wear what you want in sports is awesome. I think the example you showed of the school photo is a bit too far, but most reasonable people don't think underage girls should be wearing sexually provocative clothes to school.

But having one uniform for men and a different one for women isn't sexist. Sumo wrestlers are required to wear less than the girls in the photo and it's not because someone is opressing them, it's literally just that everyone has to dress the same. Female sumo is rare, but they probably wear tops, and that isn't sexist either.

Male swimmers wear the least. It's not systematic opression.

If you want to relax school dress codes, I disagree, but I stay out of all that.

If you want to let sports teams have more freedom when it comes to uniform selection I think that is awesome.

But you can't just go around calling everything you don't like racist sexist opression. That's why so many of your movements get rediculed. Most people wanted to support BLM and the Me Too movement, but when you get stupid with it you lose a lot of support.

Some ladies want to wear different uniforms? Sure, absolutely. Some guys probably do too. But you can't roll around and claim discrimination any time you don't like the rules. It makes you sound like a toddler and a lot of people will just brush that off, so you accomplish less than you would by just saying "let's change the rules so teams have more freedom, we understand that some clothes might give a slight advantage, but some people would rather just be comfortable"

Nobody would have a problem with that.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

First off, I dont think the girls in high school had sexually provocative outfits on, but I didn't say it was sexist. I said what is the expectation if one side says you are wearing too much and another says not wearing enough.

In this case the women did want to wear shorts. Other cases will just have to be handled by a case by case basis. They most definitely did not want those uniforms which is why they fought back against it.

Just because you haven't seen something happen doesn't mean it has never happened. That is just your own personal experiences.

Growing up, yes I was in athletics until the tendons in my leg were severed. Again your personal experiences doesn't mean that is the only experience so I would highly caution against you using them in your argument.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I'm confident enough from what I've seen in America and on the internet that most girls would choose to wear bikinis.

Go to any beach, you'll see what I mean.

But, here's a question. What if I'm right and some girls want to wear the bikini's?

And what if some of the guys want to? Surly if a guy showed up in the women's uniform he would also have had to pay the $50.

Isn't that equality unfair to the men?

Wouldn't that mean it's just a bad policy Instead of a sexist one?

Same goes for the dress codes. If I show my pubes they are gonna tell me it's inappropriate same as a girl showing a ton of cleavage.

Guys were heald to the same short length, actually... I think in my school ours had to be longer.

Isn't that just as oppressive to the men making it not exist but just a bad policy?

How do you figure it's sexist if it applies equality to both genders? 🤔

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

*equally unfair. Not equality.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

We've done this before where your points just keep getting more and more outlandish until something sticks, but im just going to stop it now.

I can tell you now most wouldn't unless they have a figure for it. I'd never go in just a bikini. What you see on the internet is just what people want you to see. You don't see the day to things that you would experience by actually being here.

Even if some girls did want to wear them, what the hell does it have to do with what I brought up? The women. I referred to did not want to wear them. If guy wants to wear them then go for it. See, I have zero problem with it because as I said, I am all about equality. Also it can be both sexist and bad. It is not like you are confined to one or the other.

Now we are gonna talk about your pubes... you do realize women grow pubic hair as well, right? Pubic hair is not the same as cleavage. Women have breasts, get over it. We are talking about cleavage, not full frontal nudity.

Your last little bit isn't even a great gotcha moment. It doesn't even make sense for the topic at hand. One, because these dress codes were most definitely not being applied equally and two, why do you men keep insisting on whataboutism? This was about women making a stand for their uniforms and making progress in getting justice from men of power who usually weasel their way out of it.

Instead of just saying, "yeah, I definitely could see you being happy with that progress" it has been post after post of guys making this about them. Sit this one out. Let the women have the victory on this one. If you want to fight for your right to wear a bikini, then you go fight for it. Stop co-opting our fight to make it your own.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

You call points you can't debate outlandish as a cop out. Yes, it's not a new thing.

"Unless they had a figure for it" you mean... Like an Olympic Athlete or something? 🤦🏼‍♂️

I'm talking about girls on beaches in general. If you think most girls wear one pieces in 2020, I disagree, but I'm not going to try to prove that especially after the point you just made on my behalf.

So people can wear either one, and you accept that some girls might want to. Awesome. We agree on that.

Of course something can be both sexist and bad, But If it applies the same to both sexes... it isn't sexist.
It's just bad.
Case closed on the sexism.

Pubes are not full frontal nudity. What if I shave them and just show that top inch or two below my waste where the v starts. Point is that would be pretty inappropriate at a school and I think we agree. The analogy to showing cleavage requires no explanation.

School dress codes at my school were applied very evenly. If anything they were more lax for girls. Again, you can say your school was different but I suspect most (public) schools let girls wear the same or less than the boys.

You can be anti dress code, but you can't call it sexist if it is the same for both sexes. That's the gotcha.

I don't know what whataboutism is but I'm pretty sure you made that up.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

We agree they should be allowed to wear shorts.

We don't agree that it's sexist systematic sexual opression by evil men who do it on purpose to have power over the Olympic fasion industry. It's literally just normal athletic gear for a lot of sports and the same or more than what most women choose to wear at the beach.

But sure, if you want to wear a full suit of plate armor that is 100% okay with me. I just don't think you are a victim for being expected to wear a uniform in a team sport. And I think the reason they are different is because guys and gals usually choose to wear different things.

I think it's awesome that they wore what they wanted to and they are going to look into expanding the uniform options so that everyone can be comfortable. I supported that the whole time.

But I think school dress codes are pretty reasonable, you don't need to show cleavage to learn and banning it for both sexes isn't opressive. I think they should make the girl change Instead of the terrible Photoshop though. That is pretty terrible work, but it's also not normal. Most schools don't do that.

One crazy person Photoshoping a girls school photo is not evidence of widespread sexist opression. I'd bet anything it was a lady who did that, but I can't prove it.

Pretty much everyone disagrees with your victimization complex. Neither of the two girls who replied supported it at all. I'm literally just trying to help you understand why so many people who are against sexism can't join your movements. They get a bit... Outlandish.

I'm not trying to rob you of your right to wear what you want to wear. I openly support everything from naked to full plate armor.

Im just trying to explain that you aren't a victim because someone else got to wear what they wanted to wear in the Olympics.

Or because teams have uniforms, and the women's are different from the men's.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

You make a big song and dance about the terible sexist opression but, it's like when NASA unknowingly scheduled the first all female space walk, then noticed and openly celebrated, then announced they would have to do it next time because they only had one suit that boobs fit inside of and people flipped out on them for being opressors.

That honestly only takes away from the real opression.

You don't seem to care at all about Chineese Muslims being cut open and having organs removed so they can be raped for days... But God forbid someone let's an Olympic Athlete break the uniform rules to be more comfortable and then considers changing them for next year. That is a MILESTONE in the DISMEMBERMENT of the TERIBLE SEXIST OPRESSION WOMEN FACE EVERY DAY.

Really? Like someone else said, you just make it obvious you don't have a lot of real problems.

I was dragging out of my house, locked up, and had my constitutional rights taken away for life without a warrant or a trial.

And you want to know why I don't support your rant about athletes being expected to wear athletic gear unless of course they don't want to in which case they can break the rules with a negligible penalty and the organization will consider changing them...

And how opressive that is/was even though so far as I know literally nobody even tried to make them wear the bikini's?

I wish we could fight opression togeather. Problem is you seem to just hate men and use any possible incident you can to attack them, when realistically nobody was opresed at all, and it was probably a lady who chose the uniforms anyways. 🤦🏼‍♂️

I agree that freedom of choice is good. Awesome. Absolutely the way it should be.

But the rule is the same for the men. It's not sexism. You just don't like it, so they changed it. You aren't a victim of opresion. It just comes across as throwing a tantrum over someone else getting to wear what they want to wear.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I'm glad you won. I don't think anyone even tried to stop you.

I just don't think that was a victory against sexist opression.

I wore a onsie to school one day. I was so proud of myself. They tried to take me off but it was absolutely and unequivocally not against the dress code so they had to let me wear it all day.

I'm on your side. You are just fighting an enemy that isn't there when there are plenty of real ones you could be focused on at all.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

But seriously, call it sexist if you want.

It really isn't a big deal to me.

I'm more concerned about the fact that you gloss right over the ladies in China, and joke about twisting the laws of nature to create a puritan society of women where men are "unnecessary"

I could get by just fine if there wasn't anyone around to stop me. But that doesn't mean I think we should do any sort of genocide. I don't think it's funny. It used to be, because I didn't know it was actually happening to a lot of people. But now it's not really a funny thing to joke about.

I think a big part of the reason you get so much push back is because you often swing the pendulum across the line and go from fighting sexism to encouraging it.

My mom called me sexist one time, my gay sister cut her off to tell her that she was the most sexist person my sister knew.

Some ladies get so wrapped up in hating men, they fail to stop and realize they already won and they are still trying to fight a war. I just find that extremely insensitive and counter productive.

But hey, it's a free world. You can think and you say what you want about it.

[Anonymous]

I think both genders suffer a lot of problems in society, but not wearing a uniform isn't exactly some crusade for women's rights. If anything, it's selfishness and narcissism to me, because they could've raised an issue about this LONG before the actual event, but chose to make it public, which shows to me, that they (like most women's rights campaigns nowadays) only wanted to make this all about themselves and get shameless publicity out of it.

And while all of this is going on, men still suffer from depression and suicides and get called incels for it, and women are still getting their clitorises chopped off in Namibia. I'm all for making this shithole world a better place, but I don't see how a bunch of narcissistic Olympic athletes is helping the little girl in Detroit not get raped by her creepy uncle. And the Olympics committee is woke, broke, a joke, anyway. This is probably the least awful thing they've done out of a thousand transgressions.

Women are told they are being "oppressed" because they're too narcissistic and entitled to wear a uniform while men are dropping out of school at alarming rate and depression is on the rise. And no, I'm not trying to make this a whataboutism, but merely trying to point out how privileged one must be that THIS is an issue to someone. I sure hope those women being slaughtered and raped in Afghanistan right now by the Taliban appreciate a bunch of pampered Olympic athletes whining about having to wear basic swimwear at a sporting event. Oh, the misogyny!!!

And Cuomo was a complete piece of shit. While what he did to those women weren't good (assuming it's true), he really should've been prosecuted and arrested for literally causing hundreds of people to die in nursing homes from COVID. But who gives a fuck about Grandpa? That's not "woke" enough to light Twitter on fire.

Yes, I am downplaying the significance of a stand for uniform change in sports as meaning anything useful. Because actual real world problems are happening in the rest of the world right now while meaningless garbage like this is what people care about.

And this is why the world will never get better. People's priorities are completely messed up. And no; there is no "you can worry about both" cop-out excuse when people CHOOSE to make this an "issue" while ignoring women (and men) in third world countries because they're not as visible on social media or can't be exploited into a hashtag.

Sorry, but it had to be said.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

It didn't have to be said, but here we are. I'm not going to respond to the whole thing because I actually feel the answer I gave to backblueblack22 would fit perfectly here as well. Just take a look at what I wrote there for my response to yours as well.

[ret04]

I fail to see how the same person who's against female athletes in bikinis (I'd have to assume they are mere spectators, not athletes themselves) are also in favor of freeing underage cleavage. Where is the consistency in the thinking, there?

Some women athletes might not feel that the uniform is meant to be sexaulizing at all, or don't have a problem with it. I have my doubts that anyone you see pictured there had an objection to it. Someone agreed upon that to being the standard, and I doubt it was an all-male perv committee doing it.

Secondly, when you're talking about anything high school, you're talking about minors. If a school wants to decide that anything risque is out of bounds, that's their prerogative. Legally, these are children.

I'm just not in favor of going so far down the PC road that we become afraid of everything that might make someone one out there slightly unconformable, or society thinking that men HAVE to be like women, or women HAVE to be like men. In some cases, it's okay, and even a good thing for there to be a distinction.

I feel that some of these minor things being made a big deal from, is like begging for this militant policing of all social norms. It's a scary thought. Especially considering those who yell the loudest about this stuff are never satisfied and their demands seem to contradict themselves.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

It is about choice and not the choice of men dictating to women what they can and cannot wear to be appropriate. That's the consistency. Feel free to go look up the story yourself. They all had a problem with it which is why they stood up together as one and took a stand against it. Also, I already addressed the committee in another post. All but two are men and I believe the women in the room had roles over the treasury.

Shoulders are not risqué. Their parents had already ok'd their outfits and none of the parents or children had been notified either during the photo session or before the alterations were made that it was an issue.

Then don't be in favor of it. Nobody is saying that either gender has to be the other. All that is being said is to treat them equally in the sense that men aren't going to be judged harshly for taking on a role typically thought of as feminine or that women won't be thought of as only allowed to be here to serve men. It is not a mandate it has to happen, just stop being an asshole to people who choose to do it.

Those who feel that is becoming militant policing usually have the most change to make. For those who are already cool with it, they realize it isn't that big of an ask.

[ret04]

Oh okay then, so I do understand. It's all a male vs female power struggle that you believe each of these issues are surrounded by. Men shouldn't tell women of any age what they should do. I can only assume it's appropriate if other women tell them what to do, instead.

Do you think that every board of education, literally everywhere, is only made up of men or majority men? Even if it was, how does that make the community standards they decide upon wrong? Obviously boys don't have cleavage, but they also have standards expected of them as well. Boys typically can't wear sleeveless shirts to public schools. So we'll suppose a bunch of men decided upon that, too. If boys even wanted to wear shorts as short as some girls, they'd be subject to the same penalty. That's as equal as it can get.

As for Olympics, I'd need to see some concrete evidence that this has actually been a problem women complained about for some period of time, and is not just the latest in many attempts to one-up "the man".

Frankly, the women's outfits look more comfortable to be used in international level sporting events, which has got to be very physically demanding. You don't want to be burning up in a baggy uniform, which I'd argue the men's uniform borders on that. I bet some of them would prefer to loose the jersey.

If shorts is what most of the female athletes prefer, then that's fine. But if it's just one or two making a big stink and trying to get noticed for their "activism", then that's a shame for all the rest.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

No it isn't a male vs female problem and if you see it that way then you are part of the problem. It is a sexist idea of what both men and women should be, exacerbated by both genders should present as (even about their own gender).

People shouldn't need to tell anyone what to do. They can ask like a normal functioning adult.

These girls in high school were wearing outfits that were fine in high school day to day wear. It was only censored in the yearbook and only of the girls. These are direct pulls from the NY Time article about it:

Many students and parents on Saturday were demanding an apology, and on Monday the district superintendent, Tim Forson, said there was “not sufficient review of the steps taken before the decision was made to edit some student pictures.”

At least 80 photos of female students were altered. No pictures of male students, including one of the swim team in which the boys wore Speedo bathing suits, were digitally altered, according to Ms. O’Keefe and parents who saw the yearbook.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I honestly don't care what you need to see to make a determination if this was a "one up attempt" or not. Feel free to go research on your own if you care. I dont even care if this was the first time it ever happened (it isn't). The fact that women are coming out and saying anything now about it is enough.

If you want to run around in a bikini to compete in sports, knock yourself out. The women talk about why they don't like them. They are being over sexualized when they just want to be an athlete, some are more focused on keeping their uniforms in place that doesn't expose parts of their bodies when they should be focused on the competition and some are just self conscious about it.

[ret04]

If you need to make me the "problem" so you have some one to shake your fist at, then by all means. I'm just handing out a few theories as to how your theory is not bullet-proof, concrete evidence of some type of oppressive norm within our society. I think it's all more complicated than you make it out to be.

On one hand, there's a moral panic over what's inappropriate for minors due to exploitation of minors in recent years, and so certain administrations try to correct for that. On the other hand, there's more moral outrage over the fact that young women aren't allowed to be "themselves" (present themselves in a suggestive manner). So you have two sides tugging at these issues. Protect the children conservatives, and women's lib types, both swinging their clubs over everyone's head. Both sides failing to recognize the actions of the other.

As for adults, Olympics have been around for a minute. In decades prior, bikinis were seen more as a standard in sportswear (hence the brand Speedo's popularity), both men and women wore them in some sporting events. Nowadays the notion of masculine presentation isn't as flamboyant, so shorts are the thing. I would chalk this up to nothing more than an ageing wardrobe selection that someone was probably too young to fully comprehend the circumstance around, so they frame it into their pathology of victimhood.

If they legitimately want to make the change, that's fine. But I will not grant you that wearing shorts is some kind of triumph in women's liberation. I feel that your take is dramatically exaggerated to be something it isn't. The sexual abuse allegations? A very serious thing that needs to be exposed, but the rest is fluff made to appear like problems run rampant for women. You think you "walk in the shadows of men", give me a break.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm not making you the problem. I said it isn't a male vs female problem and if you think that then you are the problem. I didn't make you into it, you did it yourself if that is your mindset.

Minors have been exploited for centuries. This isn't a new thing that popped up suddenly out of the blue and now we are reacting to it. This was a person or small group of administrators who made this call (incorrectly) and enforced their ideas of how women should dress on others. This wasn't even a "protect the minors" stance or did you miss the part where male students were left completely untouched while in speedos?

The condescending tone about them having a pathology of victimhood just clearly let's me know exactly how privileged you have been. It is ridiculously easy to sit back and say "oh they are just playing victims" not taking into consideration that they might actually be victims. You haven't lived their life. You haven't experienced what they have. Hell you haven't experienced a day as a woman on this earth so for you to speak on the matter as if you were some sort of expert on womens victimhood is laughable.

Again your condescending tone comes through. I dont NEED your approval or acceptance of what this movement means to me or others. You don't like it or even think it means anything.

Cool. Nobody asked you.

I posted and you gave your thoughts and I am fine with that, but please don't make it sound as if this whole thing hinges on your approval. What they did is still brave, is absolutely a step forward for a lot of us and whether you agree or not, me writing about it got your attention so that is one more set of eyes who is now aware that the status quo isn't going to be the status quo for much longer.

So thanks to them, job well done. Another person educated about something else in the world they didn't bother to take the time to learn beforehand.

[ret04]

Actually, exploitation has cropped up as a major issue lately. I seem to remember a lot of people upset about those dancing pageants which some saw as exploiting young girls inappropriately. Then there's been the extensive "clean up" of porn websites due to it being found that underage girls were on some of them. It sounds as though you're trying to throw the issues of exploitation under the bus to serve your own point, like nobody cares about those sorts of things. But yes, some people are on edge when dealing with minors and how to present them appropriately, clearly you are not.

No I don't like the victimhood song and dance, even when someone has been the victim. I happen to think wearing a bikini is not tantamount to abuse, but that's beside the point. The woe is me, we shall overcome stuff? I'm not into it most of the time. I don't find it inspiring, I find it a grating display of histrionic behavior. This is brave? Come on, what does that word even mean anymore, then?

I understand that the status quo will just become another status quo - as dictated by some loud group of controlling type of people, who are handed the authority and power to be loud and tell us all how we should think and act, lest we be "part of the problem". Yeah, I get it. The other side of the same coin.

No I'm not deluded enough to believe that my thoughts count. I'm not self-important enough to be the owner of a Twitter account, much less involve myself if this sort of minutia day in and out. I'm only writing for the sake of conservation. But clearly, you are annoyed that my opinion even exists. You'd love to cast me, or any of us who didn't cheer your take, as the villain in your ongoing narrative.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm not annoyed your opinion exists. It is annoying in the method of which you choose to express it. You can say any view in opposition without being condescending, but you have picked that route.

[ret04]

It's a complicated subject. I could just plainly state "I don't agree with this take" and allow you to assume whatever as to the reasons why. To express one's own thought, carries the risk of offense.

I don't like to just be told what to think. When something doesn't add up, I want to check out the math. To me takes like this are misguided, exaggerated, and overly dramatic. There's so many problems to work out... not the least of which would be your premise, or the title you give this take. That's a huge and loaded assertion you've made. Can you reasonably expect me to avoid matching that level in response?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Thing is, outside of your perception of this MyTake, the only thing that was escalated was your response to it.

It is easy when you don't experience an issue to dismiss it as not being an issue.

For example I will use this made up scenario: "I see nothing wrong with only needing stairways in every building. I can walk just fine."

I dont need an elevator so to not have one isn't a problem to me. To you, dress code differences and societal expectations on women are not a problem to you because you aren't a woman. You don't experience the day to day problems. You may even be acutely aware of them, but they seem out of proportion to you because it isn't a problem you face directly.

Now the appropriate response to this article if you didn't agree could have been you saying "I'm not sure I think it is bad as you are making it out to be, but I understand I'm not in that role so maybe I should research a bit more or maybe listen to your experiences to learn more about it." Unfortunately you didn't take that stance here and came on the offensive.

[ret04]

It just can't be made that simple! There are dress codes for boys and men, in different situations and within different institutions. Then there's a deeper look at this equivalency you're making, like how much does a dress code adversely affect a student's education?

I find it hard to believe that it significantly does. For the disabled stairs are a no-go, but I'm pretty sure a standard modest dress code is not an impediment to an education, even if it's a rigid one. Private schools mandate uniforms, and do they perform worse because of it? I don't know that there's evidence for that.

I think, especially with this issue, you're looking at the this through the wrong lens, and reading into it as being more of a problem, than it could ever possibly be. Editing a year book, maybe that's a bit overzealous, but then I think this is an example of taking an extreme and usually incident and using it as evidence of something rampant and oppressive.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Again I point out that the boys in the yearbook showed up in speedos and there was no censorship but a girls shoulders were exposed and they censored it. See the problem there?

[ret04]

Yeah I do, as I have alluded to they had this overzealous editor bent on "cleaning up" the book, and most people when they think of inappropriate or potentially risque attire, they think cleavage, or midriff, thighs, etc. Issues not commonly attributed to boys clothes. Maybe they weren't even looking at the boys for that reason?

Either way, I'm not saying I even agree with this level of censorship. I just think they had the odd moron at the editing desk that day who did a real bang up job, ruining a year book. I think it's an isolated incident and not evidence of some systemic problem. I had a year book once upon a time, and even though the girls predictably wore less fabric in than their male counterparts, there was no editing. I've seen no evidence that this is a common practice.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

And that's all this has been about. Getting rod of the double standards. It may not be systemic everywhere as far as this in high schools but it is as far as standards between men and women everywhere. Read other messages here. To see guys on here excuse men's ability to physically touch a woman if she is dressed a certain way is gross. It doesn't matter if she is naked. Nothing gives him that right. We should not be subjected to a certain set of rules in our clothing because it sells the sport better or because "girls should be more modest" all depending on who is speaking.

Yes, guys do have places with dress codes, but that isn't what I'm referring to here. Women generally have the same kind of dress code in those locations, but it is just a weird line where someone sexualizes a body part on us and suddenly we either need to show it off more or cover it up immediately.

[ret04]

It's still complicated. No one should blame the way you dress on doing harm to you. However, that issue is separate from the concerns of a school dress code. Distracting clothing is anything that diverts another student's attention away from their studies. I recall boys being told to turn their shirts inside out whenever it said something offensive on it, or if they'd try to wear a shirt with the sides ripped out. Generally tank tops weren't allowed, male or female kinds. It just so happens that there's more female fashion which oversteps the bounds than male. How can anyone say that for the this fact the dress code discriminates? It only discriminates if it has different standards.

Going back to adult league sports, I just do not see accusing the Olympics of trying to use sex appeal to sell their events. Bikinis are mainly known as a type of sports and swimwear that's been in use for many years. Why is it now a problem? Why not 5 years ago? 10? 15?

What worries me is when people start to moralize something like a bikini is an affront to women, that's when I start to worry about the direction of our free society. Sure people can technically wear what they want, but you're taking part in this stigmatization process. Your messaging is that bikinis are oppressive, because they're sexual, because men make women wear them, etc. It's a subversive means to control what people think and do in our society. Ultimately trying to convince women that everything men do and have is advantageous, and that they need to be just like the men. I think that's pathological and can lead to some very regressive thinking in our society.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Ugggh... I had this whole long response typed out, hit send and the app bugged out and didn't save any of it.

Shorter less eloquent answer:

Guys deal with a lot of stuff. I'm aware of it and embrace it as something I'm willing to take on as more things become equal.

We work better as a team not as individuals. Don't assign me a role in this world just because I was born a certain way.

My problem is more lack of choice more than it is anything else. These women are being told compete in this or forget about your dreams. Whether you think a uniform is important to the overall fight or not, doesn't matter. It is their lack of ability to choose that is.

For the record, I'd also fully support if the men's team wanted to wear bikinis in solidarity. My wish for equality works both ways.

[ret04]

Uniforms are standardized thing. One of the points I keep repeating is it's someone choosing for everyone else, regardless of which any player prefers. Notice they all still have full midriff exposed and the men do not. I wonder if that "should" change as well? According to the theory of absolute egalitarianism, it should. Heck, that's a competitive advantage compared to those men's jerseys.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

They are a standardized thing meaning they could be set up for them to wear the same kind of thing. Why have anything different?

[DWornock]

What you and other lesbians fail to understand, if the men don't watch the sport, there is no money and the sport dies or slowly fades away. Or perhaps you do understand and you wish to eliminate women's sports. Perhaps the governments can rob money at the point of gun from the public to support women's sports but the support will be limited and, if the men don't watch, there is no TV advertising money.

Men want to watch the best and in sports women cannot compete with men. Or else, men want to watch the very best girl athletes that are young, beautiful, and sexy. That is why, women's figure skating is popular.

The revenue of the NBA is $7.4 billion. More than 100 times the $60 million revenue of the WNBA. The reason is few men watch the WNBA. The best players, are big, tall, and look a lot like men. With the exception of a few guards, they are not beautiful and sexy. Of course in the aforementioned Olympic sports, the women can dress. act like, and/or be lesbians; but then the men won't watch and there is no money for the players or the sport.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

What you and other incels fail to understand is that the sports don't need those drooling fans to survive.

[Chthou95]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 What a simp like you fails to understand is that sports are a business and fans are the ones that contribute to making it successful by watching it. Men get paid more because people truthfully don't care about women's sports as much. Has nothing to do with sexism

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Chthou95 "hey he stated a fact! What a simp!"
Children please...
I know sports are a business. I know views bring in money and that is why men are paid more. That was not what I said.
I said that the guys that only see women's sports for the small outfits can all stop watching and the sports will survive. They are not needed to keep women's sports alive since they are not the majority of their audience.

[Chthou95]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 Yeah they'll still be here. But that's not the main issue. The issue is women thinking they're oppressed in sports when again the honest truth no one cares about females sports

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Obviously people care or those sports wouldn't exist at all, but please do try to generalize more.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Chthou95 people care less for women's sports that's for sure.
I believe they train and work very hard, but people simply chose to see men's sports. Nothing that can be done about it.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Clearly it is because they are more attracted to watching men's body's in action. Very athletic people are participating in both, so if it isn't the athletic part and they have already established people watch women's sports for women's bodies alone, clearly we can only assume the same for men's sports.

[Chthou95]

Let me word it diffrently for you. People watch women's sports but not nearly as much as they do men's because most people would rather watch men's sports. I guess you're gonna say that fans are oppressing you at some point

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Oh, I think I've already covered the why people watch men's sports in my post. That isn't oppression. That is just sexual attraction at play.

[Chthou95]

But why do women complain about it though

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Chthou95 oppressing? People are not oppressing women just because they prefer to watch men's sports.
Do you take me for one of those extreme woke snowflakes don't you?
I don't think women are oppressed in sports. I can argue that women should be encouraged to practice sports. I know that the little support they have does not come from the men who watch the sport for the sake of their outfits. That is all.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Why do we complain about what? My whole topic is about women standing up to a blatant bias in uniform standards. I never once said we were being oppressed because people refuse to watch.

It does make you a bit of an asshole though to say that you only watch women's sports to see their bodies and not admit you do the same for men's sports. There are great athletes on both sides. I also don't want to hear nonsense about how men could easily beat women in sports. The women in these events are not trying to compete against the men. You either watch sports for the athletic competition or you are watching sports because you like to watch both a man's or woman's body move around and get sweaty. I dont begrudge either, just own up to it.

[Chthou95]

Where did i say i watch womens sports for their bodies? I don't watch them at all. And women have their own leagues and men have their own leagues for a reason. They're not the same or eqaul. That doesn't mean it's sexist. That's just reality.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I apologize, not you specifically, just anyone who watches them at all. How's that?

Of course they have their own leagues. That wasn't up for debate. I'm just saying the reason for watching clearly has to be the same.

[DWornock]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 What you [believe you] know, is fantasy. Of course, you provide no evidence because evidence of your fantasy beliefs doesn't exist.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@DWornock wasn't you that at some point said that girls wearing a bikini was the same thing as rape? Because they forced men to look and to feel horny?
You say shit like that and you expect you opinions to be taken seriously?

[DWornock]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 You can't defend your fantasy argument. Instead you are resorting to name calling and stupid lies.

[DWornock]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 Furthermore, you don't provide a link supporting your false accusation because it doesn't exist and you know it. I'm done with you and will not reply further. I'll debate any reasonable person but not someone like you that, instead of valid arguments, resorts to lies and personal attacks.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@DWornock note that I didn't insult you. I asked if you had said something in another question. And by the response I am right aren't I?
As far as logic goes, do you really think that the perverts are the ones who keep women's sports alive?

[es20490446e]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 True, we don't need that kind of fans.

[Anonymous]

I'm totally for equality and female empowerment however some of the "movements" like "me too" and " Cancel culture" go too far and it really just looks like sexism on men. For example most of my friends are girls and I commonly use the word sweetie and there's never been an issue before and then suddenly a few months ago I got harassed at a cafe I regularly go to though I usually go there at a different time and know everyone who works there at that time

And on these particular occasions I went at a different time and just made my order and spoke very nice and friendly to the cashier and said "Thanks sweetie" and waited for my drink and when the barista called out my drink I took it and said "Thanks sweetie, Have a good day" and then she basically harassed me for using the word "sweetie" and saying I'm not allowed to use that word because it might make some people uncomfortable And I explained to her that I always say that and it's meant in a friendly way not a flirtatious way but if she doesn't like it I won't say it to her.

Meanwhile a girl said sweetie and hunnie to them a few minutes later and it's totally fine so I brought that up to her and said "So, Only girls and gay guys can say sweetie but I'm not allowed to?" And she didn't know what to say back. So basically there are a lot of double standards in society and if people really want equality then that also means there can't be double standards like that. And also men are generally expected to dress a certain way too.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Me too was FAR from being sexist on men. It was men and women finally getting to find their voice against those who had harrassed/assaulted/raped them. The reason you hear more female voices was because we are more likely to be victims of all three of those things.

Your friends are a different story than random strangers on the street. What they are ok with putting up with does not mean it is universally accepted. I wouldn't be ok with you calling me sweetie. I dont know you. My wife can say it. Like maybe 2 of my friends can get away with it. I have a name though, so use that until we have a better relationship at the very least.

It's not about a double standard in this case as much as it is what she is comfortable with. Let's reverse this, shall we? I have a friend that I am super comfortable just referring to as an *sshole constantly and he has a name he uses on me too. We are perfectly fine with it. If I walk up to you in the street and just say "Hey *sshole" you may not be ok with that.

All you had to do was say sorry and move on. Also men have WAY less of an expected requirement for how they should dress.

[Opinion Owner]

There's actually more to it than that but I just wanted to not make it so long, I did apologize if it made anyone uncomfortable but also explained my side of it and also as I said I know most of the people who work there and she's seen me many times so it's not exactly a stranger lol. And all the girls at night are very nice and are totally cool with me. And I complained to the company and received an apology.

Also not exactly true about clothing requirements except for going completely topless girls can pretty much wear whatever they want.

And the issue here is you aren't willing to see other people's perspectives and don't see the negative side of those movements which there are. As I said before I'm in favor of equality and girl empowerment but not double standards and accusing all men of being a certain way.

And by the way I am more on the feminine side and am bisexual and almost all my friends are girls so I'm very obviously not like those guys.. And also a large portion of those "Movements" have not been for men it's been mostly exclusively for women only I agreed with some of it but not the over the top man hating stuff and double standards and I literally said a woman said the same stuff but that was fine and you disregarded that part lol

I agreed with some of what you wrote and took the time to read it and give my opinion on the topic so I'd appreciate some understanding and respect fir that. Thank you.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

What negative side did I not see to those movements? I've already stated in the past that those who abused those movements by lying and just getting revenge are human trash, but a majority of those who spoke out told the truth and it gave courage to other victims as well. I have zero sympathy for anyone was guilty of what they were accused of and how it affects their lives now.

I did address the part you mentioned about women saying it. I said it wasn't a double standard as much as it is what she is comfortable with. Maybe dont overlook that part before saying I disregarded it. If you need another example of this, let's use your same example. You walk up to a random stranger (and don't presume just because she has seen you multiple times means she recognizes you) and call her sweetie you think it is fine because all your female friends don't say anything about it. You walking up to a male batista and calling him sweetie too? It is about equality, right? Do you think he would be good with it too? If not, ask yourself why. Is it because guys don't feel comfortable with terms of endearment from other guys like that? Maybe it is seen as degrading or emasculating? Then ask yourself if you wouldn't be ok doing that to another guy, why do you think it is ok to do to a woman? Is it because you think it is just a cute nickname thing? Is it not possibly degrading to her? Did you even take that into consideration or is that just something you think is ok to say to all women? If you think it is ok to say to women and not just random guys then that is a double standard.

[Opinion Owner]

Wow, You are being totally ridiculous.. And she actually did know me.. She knows my name and everything!! I've been going there for years and again you literally just made a really mean and disrespectful assumption about me and accusing me of stuff I didn't do.. Pet names? Wow.. So women do it it's friendly and endearing when a guy does it's a pet name or flirting? You pretty much proved my point you just hate men.. You did actually disregard it by basically saying it's okay for women to say whatever they want but not men. It IS a double standard and just one of many of them. If you don't like my opinion just delete it because I do not want to argue with you about this. Have a good day..

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I dont hate men nor did I say it was ok for women to say and not men. Pay attention. I said it is all about HER comfort level. Maybe she is ok with one and not the other, I dont know.

And yes, whether a man or woman says it, it is still a pet name. My name is Bri. Anything other than that isn't the correct name. Some people I am ok with them using something different and most I am not.

[Opinion Owner]

I call people by their names too, Sweetie is just something I say and I actually have said it to men too so wrong again!! lol it's not a pet name when I say it it's meant as just a sweet thing I say to people who I feel like are nice. You've been wrong about pretty much everything you said so far. As far as comfort level I already said I told her I won't say it to her if she doesn't like it and she said she's not uncomfortable but someone else might be lol it was harassment simple as that the company apologized to me and said she was treating me badly and gave me a gift card so obviously I was in the right. I'm not going to change everything I say I will be myself abd isn't that part of being progressive? Being allowed and being "Brave" to be yourself? My point isn't even about that one example it's that everything is becoming tense and you shouldn't be harassed be in trouble for being a nice person because that's literally what my example was.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Your intentions don't make it any less of a pet name. That's not how it works. Again, it is how the recipient takes it that matters here. Again, if I call you *sshole, you are going to probably be offended. My friend would just laugh and call me stupid and it's fine. He has that kind of relationship with me.

I'm pretty sure given how she reacted to your "niceties" and how I have also tried to explain it to you and your reaction that you may be the one in the wrong here, but you do you. You are only seeing it from your point of view. You got offended that people aren't ok with you using a name we find insulting without having that kind of relationship with you. Your response so far has been, "well that's not how I meant it so start getting ok with it or I am going to force the issue on you." You went to her management because she didn't want you to call her sweetie and you think SHE is the problem? Dude, look in a mirror.

Let's be honest, that company couldn't care less about how she reacted. If they did, she wouldn't still have a job. They did it placate you and get you off their backs. All companies do that to avoid bad press.

[Opinion Owner]

Those words are no where near the same lol once again you're wrong I was in the right you do not know what happened and you are being total bitch leave me alone I do not want to have anymore conversations with you. You are a very mean person and I hope you learn how to treat people

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Oh good lord. Are we pouting now? You posted here about how you used a term a woman wasn't comfortable with and I offered a reason why it makes sense why she wouldn't. Now you are calling me mean too? I am really sense a victim mentality from you

[Opinion Owner]

No, It's because one of her co workers use to be a friend of mine who wasn't my friend anymore and who disliked me she kept bad mouthing me to a few people who worked there so that woman was just trying to find a way to mess with me.. And like I said she wasn't offended by that term she was just looking for something that she could say lol that simple that's why I said you don't understand but anyway that wasn't even the point but you kept holding on to that situation instead getting the main point I was making is there are a lot of double standards and one sidedness in society and I was standing up up for women too as I clearly said I'm for girl empowerment and equality. I've even voted for more women than men.. I basically agreed with your mytake I just disagreed with a couple things and you don't like me for that? Sorry I even brought it up I should have just said the first part and moved on because you clearly misunderstood me..

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Again, you keep saying I don't like men and I don't like you and it is just blatantly false. I like guys just fine and I barely know you to form a judgment of whether I like you or not. If I hated you, I would have blocked you. I'm just debating right now with you on this topic. Please stop taking a victim stance and just debate if that's what you came here for.

I also pointed out a double standard using your own words and in reverse. You keep taking this stance in your post that you were to be held harmless for what you said, but I have pointed out that in her case it was obviously an issue of she felt it was enough to make a stand. Your story has also modified with each iteration you have told it. It started with you calling everyone sweetie and the barista asking you not to because it can be seen as offensive (and in some ways it can be condescending, so I agree with her. Im from the south so I am fully aware of how friendly interactions work down here, but not everyone is used to or even likes them so just be mindful of it.) Eventually your story has now become an old friend of yours who had a falling out with you who was looking for revenge. That is a huge swing in circumstances don't you think? How could anyone jump to the conclusions you are trying to imply now compared to your opening post?

Even if all of it were true about her just being vindictive (and I find the truth is always somewhere off to the side of the story being told by one of the involved parties) it doesn't change anything I said about the terminology themselves. Im not a man hater or a mean person just because I am not ok excusing a term that can be very condescending to use.

[Opinion Owner]

I didn't go on here to debate with you though, I just said my opinion and that's all.. Thanks..

[JoJoiLL]

It's a really important issue and one that I'm surprised hasn't been addressed sooner - I struggle to find my daughter appropriate swim-wear for gods sake. Why should any girl let alone a child be expected to wear what is effectively 'lingerie' for swimming?

To mandate 'sexy' clothing for women in sports is simply an abuse of power by sexist men.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Yes!

This exactly. It is ridiculous how clothing is becoming more revealing for even younger girls and it keeps skewing downwards. Every woman should have a choice in what she wears, but oversexualization also has negative effects.

¹ it normalizes the idea that women are just here to be sexual eye candy for men and I sure as heck don't want that being forced on my 6 year old daughter.

² it reinforces negative body images for women who don't look flattering in the cuts of fabric on the shelves.

I'm not saying they can't or shouldn't exist, but it should definitely not be forced upon women as the standard even as a team uniform when the men have alternate options the women can choose from.

Thank you so much for understanding what that section was referring to!

[Anonymous]

Gotta love how women like you list every challenge and disadvantage that women ever face and pretend they somehow mean women are "oppressed" or disadvantaged without giving a single thought to the challenges and disadvantages men face that women don't, or the privileges that women have that men don't. And, of course, when those are pointed out, feminists scoff at, dismiss or minimize them.

This is the feminist definition of "equality" that has made modern feminism such a joke and resulted in feminism no longer being supported by the vast majority of people, both men and women.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Well, well... Im guessing you have never read my past post history because I ABSOLUTELY covered this before. This wasn't about the trials of men, but instead of acknowledging that yeah women haven't exactly been treated fair in these areas you came on here and started whining about how bad men have it.

Here is what I will do for you though. I am going to sum all my previous posts about this before in bullet points for you

¹guys have different challenges that are hard for them as well. I fully acknowledge that
²I have said on several occasions what I want is true equality. That means for us women, if we can't accept the sh*t guys put up with and their disadvantages then we don't deserve equality.
³I dont want men to be judged as being "weak" for taking on stereotypical female roles. I want them to be able to go to the park with their kid without being stared at weirdly.
⁴I want to eliminate gendered roles altogether. They are completely asinine

You didn't come to this post and ask me my feelings about what guys go through. You assumed just because I use the feminist title that I am some man hating b*tch.

I dont hate guys. Far from it. I think guys are great except for the really shit ones who try to use force to take what they want from women. Those guys can go die in a fire.

When I say I want true equality, I mean it. I do realize that there are going to just be some things a guy can do better than a woman. I realize there are things a woman can do better than a guy. What I dont want is for either side to be eliminated from trying just because of how they were born.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

^ I'm glad to see this and really agree with pretty much everything you said.

To be clear, I don't think the uniform/comfort issue isn't real. I understand that is something women face a lot more than men do for a lot of reasons.

I just don't think that having standard uniforms is sexist opression. Especially when the ladies were allowed to play in what they wanted to and they are considering changing the rule the first time someone said they were uncomfortable.

If a guy said he felt the shorts were slowing him down and he wanted to wear a speedo, they probably wouldn't let him, and then make fun of him for it.

But some laidies were uncomfortable, so they are probably going to change the rule to make them more comfortable.

I'm not saying that isn't a problem. I just don't think it's opressive sexism.

[ToastyOats]

Im tired of being lumped in with Billionaire Pornographers, Cuomo, and Degenerate Rappers just because Im a man!
I like women to dress comfortably and I don't have a problem with some skin, but there is a time and place for dressing sexy.
This is not a male vs. female issue as much as corporations and governments using women's sexuality to manipulate men.
Im just a regular guy, my daughters will not be wearing bikinis till they are at least 16. I work at a state college in america and many young girls are walking around with their asses literally hanging out of their skirts and shorts. This is not cool.
Who cares what these rich assholes think, not me! There is a simple and satisfactory compromise here between looking like a whore and feeling oppressed by thr patriarchy. Plenty of intelligent men out there. Lets work together on this rather than be divided.

[cjmtherfcker]

I agree with a lot of what you said here. I was glad those ladies organization supported them in their decisions. They should be able to be comfortable when they play.

I also hope they broke the viewership numbers down for them. So they know like hypothetically 12% of their viewing time per match, is men 18-70 who watch 5-10 mins, primarily to see the attractive women. That equates to roughly 20k in revenue from advertisers and sponsors Per match. That sort of thing so that they have the relevant info to decide if its really worth it for them to push this.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Oh it is absolutely worth it. Look beyond this event. The more places women stand up and say we are done being sexualized for the most inane things and force people to respect our contributions despite our looks, the better. It was steps like this that forced the issue and got us the right to vote, the right to serve in the front lines, be coaches on professional men's sports teams and in the vice presidency of the United States. 20-30 years ago that would have been unheard of. It was those small stances here and there that became impossible to ignore as each one became bigger over time. These trailblazers and strong women, who make these stands and have to listen to guys try to explain to them how nobody is going to take them seriously or even bother to pay attention unless their tits are out, are showing everyone that those kinds of mindsets aren't going to be accepted anymore. They are forcing people to pay attention with their skills and bravery and they are normalizing the idea of women being in male dominated fields and not only just being there, but being equal contributors.

[cjmtherfcker]

So if they league becomes unprofitable due to loss of revenue, and these girls can no longer play the sport they love professionally. Would it still be worth it to them? I don't know that answer

[cjmtherfcker]

I personally was much more offended by the Ukranian military organizing women's day parade for female service members and putting them in fatigues and high heels.
Than women's beach handball team wearing bikinis.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Both are bad and that's the point. We shouldn't need to do those things just to exist and do the things we love. Could you imagine these NFL players being asked to play in nothing, but a pair of boxers? Yeah, I couldn't imagine it either, but women are asked to do it and not only just have to play like that, but also while delivering hits at full speed. That's the kind of stuff that needs to stop.

[cjmtherfcker]

Well i'm glad their league supports them. And wish the much success in growing a new audience that supports them in the way the wish to be.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Where are you getting those numbers from?

I bet changing the uniforms will make almost no difference to their bottom line.

But, I bet making it out to be some sort of SJW fiasco has lead to a bunch of extra money coming in.

They should wear what they want to wear, but I'd love to see them try to force all the ladies to wear shorts and T-shirts. I've seen that before and most of them get PISSED.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

Fact check:

This is what the WNFL actually wears.

You probably wouldn't know they were a women's team unless I told you.



And this is what the men's Olympic swim teams wear.



The uniforms seem to have a lot more to do with the sport than the gender to me.

[ThatNoUVAtYourEyes]

I couldn't wait for the equality to palpably be there, and for a very simple reason,

As a man, you can only delude yourself into being able to be a 'player'/a playboy - _and_ be in a fulfilling committed serious relationship.

Yet, there are so many women who expect that those two things can happen concurrently - and even a larger number who simply won't take any responsibility for themselves/where you neither get a yes nor a no, but rather - father me (the 'girlchild' problem - if only she found a good man to set her straight, a bit like the 'manchild' problem of some 50 years ago where 'good guys' were drunks etc until a good women set them straight)

[Bluemax]

Good mytake. Only disagree with one thing you said.

"punished and removed from office when credible accusations arise."

No. A person should *only* be punished by a court of law when those credible accusations are backed up with credible proof.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Punished by law enforcement yes. Unfortunately I lot of these people in power may never even see a courtroom. When I say punish I don't necessarily mean thrown into jail. Of course that would require being found guilty in a court of law. Sometimes that could just be a loss of funds and stature in a civil case or just certain procedures available to the local governments like censure perhaps.

[Bluemax]

What constitutes "credible accusations?" How do you define "credible accusations?"

The punishment you're describing doesn't necessarily sit well with me, either. However I am open to having my mind changed.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I get that it can be a very slippery slope to walk, but let's be honest, these guys with connection and money can tie up the court systems for years and in some cases just get away with it even when forced to actually go to court. That is a lot to put victims through.

Every case is different but when you have multiple victims come forward that have had no verifiable connection to one another except the accused all tell the same story, that has to really raise some red flags, yeah?

[Bluemax]

I have more to say on this, but it must wait I'm afraid.

I will say this for now. I have a three tiered system of belief, and no, I most certainly do *not* automatically believe all accusers who claim sexual assault/harassment/rape. But nor do I disbelieve them in every case.

1. If it's a friend, I believe her. This is because my friends don't lie very much. If they do, then they don't remain my friend. s.
2. If it's someone I don't know, then I believe it possibly could have happened. But it possibly also could not have happened.
3. In a court of law, I believe the defendant until proven otherwise. If ultimately it comes down to word vs. word, the defendant walks. Even if in my heart I believe the defendant did it.

[Bluemax]

It is a very slippery slope indeed. One I seem more reluctant to go down.

Whereas the conditions you mention *do* raise red flags, red flags are not enough for me to want to prosecute in a court of law, or turn their whole lives upside down out of court. I understand that that is heartbreaking to a lot of victims and will leave them with great anguish. But that's how much I value presumption of innocence and how much I am unwilling to go down that very slippery slope.

By the way, I'm less willing to consider multiple accusations as a red flag when dealing with a public or political figure. Political figures *especially* have made a lot of political opponents and enemies who are willing to say and do anything (ir get someone else to for them) to knock 'em down. If it were Joe Everyman, it raises *far* more red flags when multiple accusers come out of the woodwork than when multiple accusers point the finger at a high profile person who has had decades to make rivals, enemies, and pissed off employees.

The fact that the accused is rich, powerful, and has connections does not mean that he/she should therefore not be afforded the same rights, courtesy, and respect as anyone else.

And I do indeed understand that victims will be put through a lot of anguish, hurt, and frustration. And I am heartbroken for them. However, I WANT to make it difficult to accuse people. I WANT the prosecution and accusers to have a very difficult time and have them prove their case, even if they are not doing it in court, but through the media (who often stand to profit from these accusations). This goes for ANY type of accusation of something heinous. Be it rape, murder, assault, theft, arson, etc. I don't want to make it easy for the accusers.

[Malik00]

Meanwhile in Denmark the government practically has to BEG its men to have sex with its women.

Do it for Denmark

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I... I dont know how to feel about that hahaha.

I learned something new today. Take my upvote.

[oddwaffle]

It boils down to money. Sex sells. If you have to choose between shutting down and selling scantily clad young women then the everyone choosing the former would quit and you will be left with people choosing the later and continue the sport.

A lot of popular sports are violent. That's why they try to sell violence. For women, it's harder to sell women's violence (like women MMA). So they op for more sex.

Money talks, honor walks. It has always been the case.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

Losing the guys that only watch it because they want to drool all over the athletes is not what is going to have a significant impact on their earnings.
Serena Williams is an extremely well paid athlete and I can assure you people don't watch her because of her looks.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Or the US women's soccer team who is arguably more popular than the men's team.

[oddwaffle]

US has never been popular at soccer. Does the team make a lot of money? And how many Serena Williams is there in all of tennis as a sport?

People need to take a hard look at the sport industry and realized it's smaller than the cardboard industry. It makes a lot of noise but has little meat for the athletes. Most athletes don't make money.

Even sports with more popular wages for athletes don't really pay the guys who didn't make it to the top that well. Most have to work on other jobs to pay for a chance.

Forward this to the newer sport and you will see. eSports. Mostly guys with some girls but at some point only the pretty girls count!

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Sounds to me like I am right then. Women are not respected like their male counterparts. Guess that equality thing isn't quite done yet. The fight continues.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

What I said holds even more true for sports with little to no audience.
In men's case, in sports like football, you want to get a bug audience because they bring thousands.

But even men in a sport like rowing? It actually has less viewership then women's tennis.
Sports with little viewership don't live out if their fan base. Literally you can cut the audience in half that they are not going to be affected.
So yes, take away from the stands the drooling perves all you want. Won't make a difference.

[PAcc92]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8

Serena is well paid because she is good at the sport, not because she is attractive (I don't think she is).

Women's sports are the exact same as Men's sports but with weaker competitors. You can't expect people to view a middle school soccer match (Which the Women's team LOST in) to the best physical opponents competing.

Women's sports will always be second to men's sports because women are not as physically capable, that's just reality, it doesn't mean Men don't care about Women or that women are "oppressed" or any such nonsense. Sports are created to watch humanity at it's best, if you desegregated women's and men's sports, women would never win again this is why Trans athletes have generated such an uproar.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

I don't expect women's sports to have the same spectators that men's sports have. That was not what I said. I also didn't said that women are oppressed because less people chose to not watch them.

What I said was "Losing the guys that only watch it because they want to drool all over the athletes is not what is going to have a significant impact on their earnings."
So let them wear whatever they want.

[FakeName123]

Are those athletes forced to play at the olympic games or any other league? Is someone holding a gun at the head telling them they have to?

No? Well, then don't play there.

Oh wait, you want the money that the league and olympic games provide. How do they get that money? By viewership. How do they get more money? Sex sells.

This really isn't rocket science.

[Anpu23]

No I applaud them. Well done. It was one of many stupid Olympic rules (banning co-ed fencing is another I would like to see changed).

[Ez-Bri-Z]

That actually would be kind of cool to see. Thank you for reading this!

[Anpu23]

The international fencing committee allows coed fencing so any competition that is not an Olympic qualifier is coed. It's an Olympic rule not a fencing one.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I tried it. She kicked my ass. Fought the instructor next and it was terrifying. I don't know who won.

They put me up against an 8 year old girl and I think she beat me too.

Fencing is weird though. I was way better at the open field stuff without all the rules. Sword fighting with rules was a strange concept for me.

[Lost_in_the_Woods]

I agree it was a good change, but yeah... Nobody really put up much opposition to it.

The team who got charged $50 probably spent thousands of dollars per person on plane tickets and hotel rooms. It obviously was on the books to be a slight deterent, but if the goal was to oppress female athletes or make money, it would be way more than a $50 fine. That is nothing to the teams. And the first time someone had a problem with it they agreed to look into changing it.

[wingattebaby16]

one thing i can comment.

i prefer seeing women in bikinis becoz they have better bodies.

Men should stay in full outfits as most men do not look a good in skimpy clothes as women.

women in bikinis.. Yes
Men in Speedos, esp fat men.. NOOOOOO

[Cathy7734]

I enjoyed reading your comments and gave them a "thumbs up." I agree with what you wrote about equality and that society oversexualizes women. This is where I get confused. It does seem to me that women are oversexualized. But when I go on social media all I see are women flexing their sex for views. Would you agree that both men and women oversexualize women?