Enough with the Alpha-Beta nonsense already!

[Anonymous]

Did you know that this Alpha-Beta nonsense got started from a misunderstood, now debunked scientific study? In the 1970s Canadian Scientist L. David Mech observed wolves in a National Park where one "alpha" male and one "alpha" female appeared to be in charge, get first pick at the best parts of a kill, and boss the others around.

When observing wolf packs in the wild, he made the discovery, that these weren't "societies" they were families! The "Alpha Male" was "Dad" and the "Alpha Female" was "Mom."

"The younger wolves were submissive to the parents. The parents controlled the distribution of food. The couple prioritized the youngest puppies to ensure they would get enough food if it needed to be shared. Older siblings may do the same thing, Mech wrote."

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females.html

This short clip explains some of this:

Mech, L. David. 1999. Alpha Status, Dominance, and Division of Labor in Wolf Packs. Canadian Journal of Zoology 77(8):1196-1203.

Some in society, however, had already latched on to the idea that "alphas" are a thing, not only in wolves, but in human beings as well! This has lead to our current culture where modern day bullies simply relabel themselves as "alphas" or sometimes even "betas."

Yes "betas" can be bullies too

In truth its all a load of crap, designed to put people, usually men, into a box or make them feel left out that they aren't in the "alpha" "beta" or whatever club. Some are now adding omega, sigma, and in the future I'm sure a different class for every letter of the Greek alphabet!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2021/01/26/the-pseudoscience-behind-the-sigma-male-explained/

My advise, we should stop trying to excuse this. Either you are forever bullied because you are a "beta" nerd, and "Alpha fucks beta bucks," or you are forever a stupid lumbering imbecile because you aren't one. Real men, and real women, don't need to be put into a category!

Real Men don't need to be put into a category!

One final thought the whole Alpha-Beta, Delta, Gamma, Upsilon, whatever is incredibly creepy, straight out of Aldous Huxely's "Brave New World." A dystopic novel on par with George Orwell's "1984" where all of human society is divided into castes; Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Epislon.

Straight out of dystopia!

[Anonymous]

Finally someone is saying it.
People have to be a sheep and a wolf depending from the situation. I don’t understand this alpha and beta thingy either; it’s so stupid and it’s toward man only! Time to leave male gender alone honestly I have brothers , I will have a future som who knows point is I don’t want him to live in such a toxic manmade ideology environment.
I remember once I was at Starbucks I heard a women asking the guy if he was a beta or alpha noooo jokeee🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ I was like damn.
Oh this guy is so confident he is an alpha 😂
Hallelujah

[kc_4308]

I’m sick of these guys who call themselves red pill , blue pill, MGTOW, and incels. Entertaining this type of behavior is childish and now men who are like this are immature, weak, childish, and toxic. They can’t attract a leveled up woman and or quality women. Any man labeling himself this I’m gone !

[R4zor]

gtfo die alone

[marish01]

Define quality women

[Ousaf1]

Guess who made those men exist, the answer is very close

[FraITA92]

I always thought it's nonsense 😂
I value humans much more than animals (despite all the scum that there is 😂)
And reducing people and our complex society to a simple hyerarchical pack structure is bullshit and offensive.
Take this as a reasoning point:
Let's define alpha = "dominant" and beta ="submissive", in normal terms 😅
Think about somebody who is huge because he trains at the gym everyday, but is poor and is ugly. He could kill everybody else in the gym, but he could become homeless in 2 months if he gets fired.
Someone else is super rich but has no care for his body and consequently his sexual performance.
Another guy is a hot playboy but also broke and not very strong.

Now put them together in a room with a cop (authority) , and pick the alpha and the betas... According to which characteristic, each of which has advantages in our society? 😅🤣

Also, they told me a couple times that I am an alpha 😂, but I am sometimes aggressive, and sometimes I just avoid confronting with idiots and let them have it. I am attractive for women but I am not very good with them. I am neither alpha nor beta, I am a man with various sides and moods and interests 😅

[J2ohhhhh]

2 out of 3 jobs before I was self employed I got leadership positions and when I was gaming and led my own guild, I really built my confidence in my leadership skills. But it is nothing sort of being an alpha. It's like fucking diplomacy, just because you're the boss there are people who with their connection hold shit load of power over you. Forexample in a 40 member guild there are group of friends, 10 people and if one is not happy with your decisions you have a 10 people problem. In work place that's the same. In politics some of your supporters are not happy with you, they'll spend some £ on spreading a bed narrative and you're fucked. Fairness is quite a thing even among animals. When they fight for leadership it's mostly 1v1, but if the leader is really a piece of shit they do 2,3 or whatever versus 1. It's an equation, people who are led will tolerate some bullshit, but they will never tolerate more than the benefits of following their leader.

[EternallyCorrect]

The first part is a midwit argument. Alpha/beta has been debunked in wolves, but this is irrelevant. Firstly there are alpha/beta animals in many other species: lions, apes etc. Secondly if we’re going to be compared to any animal we’re more closely related to apes than to wolves. Thirdly it was debunked because this was only observed in wolves kept in captivity, as in not living in the wild, which we also are not.

Plus, if I say beta male and alpha male you already have a picture in your mind of each type. The beta is a wimpy, effeminate, nerdy, shy or “nice guy” type who women don’t tend to find attractive and who other men don’t tend to respect. The “alpha” is the opposite.

Self-identifying as “alpha” and obsessing over it is cringe, but that doesn’t mean that there’s no truth to it at all.

[weeee]

Agreed. Its just insecure men with this type of 2 dimensional thinking who are desperate for some form of external validation to feel good.

Imagine genuinely believing animals like humans who have such complex and intricate systems of social interactions in place can all be boiled down to just 2 boxes.

[Soremain]

"In truth its all a load of crap, designed to put people, usually men, into a box or make them feel left out that they aren't in the "alpha""

That right there is your problem. You feel left out of the alpha category so you want no one to use the terms. But actually the fact that you feel that way, proofs that you believe those categories exist. You wouldn't be able to feel bad about not belonging in a category that doesn't exist in the first place.

It's true that it's all mostly nonsense, childish, dumb, unscientific and unnecessary and doesn't make the world any better place, but it shouldn't bother you. If it bothers you, it means you also play the game. By resisting the game, you're playing the game.

[Nightroads]

Cool, love that episode. I do tend to agree with that shows findings, but just because the symbolic origins of the term are incorrect does not mean that overtime the perceptions on which are based on the symbol did not become the societal norm.

Military has used the fictitious social system to generate functional platoons for years.

[bamesjond0069]

Categorization is normal human behavior. One who wants to pretend categories don't exist is living in a fantasy hallucination. They exist and are categories and make sense to many many people. If they don't make sense to you, thats just you failing to understand the concept everyone else gets.

I don't hear many alphas upset about or arguing these categories don't exist. Only betas do it. Probably because they understand beta male is not a good category to be in. They would benefit by people not calling them out all the time on their personal failings. Very obvious their motivations.

[weeee]

The problem is not the category's existence, but the fact that its so overtly simplified and completely devoid of all nuance.

Its a shitty model for representing human behaviour, which is why you dont see any level headed people using terms like beta and alpha in an meaningful actual convo.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee uh huh. And you are the definition of "level headed"? If you're complaining about this you're probably a beta. If you are a beta you are morally deficient. If you're morally deficient im going to say you're not level headed.

"the fact that its so overtly simplified and completely devoid of all nuance" is precisely why its so useful. If we wanted more in depth information then maybe myers briggs or other similar tests would be used. However that information is not usually readily available. Whats the cashiers myers briggs? I don't know but i can tell he's a beta after our short conversation. In this instance myers briggs is useless because its too complex and specific.

[weeee]

Alright starting off with ad hominem, you then go on to conflate a social hierarchy model with a personality test. Alright. there's some similarities i guess, but the two are way way far apart to be compared like that in the sense that myers briggs does not concern itself with hierarchies as far as im aware. Alpha/beta bullshit doesn't give us "insight" into anything, it is almost always used as a way of putting other men down and thats it. Even you did it like twice up until now. On top of that myers briggs is not that credible either so yeah.

By level-headed people i mean, and i guess i should have worded it better, the people who are actually concerned with categorising human behaviour. The point im making here is that alpha/beta shit is no more credible than horoscopes and fortune cookies.

And a little side note, i dont know how myers briggs is a beta since he's two people—isabel myers and katharine briggs. Eitherways this just reaffirms a point I made earlier for like what? The third time now...

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee "Alright starting off with ad hominem..." maybe you just don't realize you're rude but you started it.

"... alpha/beta shit is no more credible than horoscopes and fortune cookies." If you really think this then what i said in my first post is my response: "If they don't make sense to you, thats just you failing to understand the concept everyone else gets."

[weeee]

All im saying is if you actually cared for actual categorising this is the last model to pick, and the only real reason this exists so that men have something to insult eachother with. My comment on equating it to horoscopes is means that this shit basically has no actual scientific credibility.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee "All im saying is if you actually cared for actual categorising this is the last model to pick..." So what is the first model to pick?

I think you just dont understand the concept tbh. I find it highly useful and accurate. I can drive 5 hours meet some men i dont know and bam they know what it is too. Highly useful and well known. The fact that you dont think it makes sense doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. Seeing as everyone else thinks it makes sense would mean everyone lives in a collective delusion except you OR you just do not understand a concept everyone else gets. Which do you find more likely?

[weeee]

You dont understand what im saying. It doesn't matter what it means. I know what it means, thats not the point. What im saying is that its literally never used to do what its supposedly about, in all practical contexts it's only used to insult, shame or shutdown a convo.

It has no real academic weight to it as a theory, and im not expecting people to care about that either, but the fact that some people pretend that it has any real merit to it in that regard is where i have my problem.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee "its literally never used to do what its supposedly about" you mean wolves? Irrelevant. All that matters is if it applies to human males. Thats the context.

"in all practical contexts it's only used to insult, shame or shutdown a convo." ... with morally deficient people. An example would be beta says "you should let your wife be gangbanged by hung men its fun and strengthens your marriage" alpha responds "your opinion on the matter is irrelevant because you are a beta. Whether you experience positives from such a situation, it is not appliciable to alphas... so essentially stfu beta thats obvious nonsense to any alpha" yes ik usually it would just be like "damn you beta cuck stfu" and so what? This does not negate that is a useful category to have. If i scream "maaaaaannnnn... wooomanan" at people to shut them up does that negate the catgeory? No. Its irrelevant.

"It has no real academic weight to it as a theory" says who? And in regards to humans? My understanding its nowhere sufficiently studied due to its taboo and non PC nature.

[weeee]

So all of academia is scared of it because its taboo and non-pc and only smart people like you see the real merit. A very likely scenario.

>"you should let your wife be gangbanged by hung men its fun and strengthens your marriage"
Literally no one speaks like this and your terrible example just further proves it how bad this is at capturing real human behaviour.

"you mean wolves?"
wolves are entirely irrelevant here. I meant humans and how it doesn't accurately apply at all.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee wheres the scientific proof it doesn't apply to humans?

And yes beta cucks are all over the place talking about beta crap. there's articles on articles talking about how great beta stuff is such as cuckolding. The proper response is that is beta cuck shit. It needs no further response. here's an example shesaid.com/.../

[weeee]

How does that help your case at all lmao. There are articles out there promoting scat fetishism too, why don't you also add a Shitfucker category to this alpha/beta hierarchy.

Regarding "wheres the scientific proof it doesn't apply to humans?" is a bit strange since the burden of proof is on you. I've made it clear from the beginning that i believe all of this is just a pop culture phenomenon with no real worthwhile application to it. It is as grounded in reality as astrology.

I would ask for you to search out an actual scholarly article validating its existence because i have not yet came across one.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee "There are articles out there promoting scat fetishism too," exactly so if there are articles about scat fetishism then one would safely assume there is a type of person called a scat fetishist. Just as there are beta cuck beta simp articles there is such a thing as a beta. he's the kind of man who would write about why beta life is so great just as a scat fetishist would write about how scat is so great. (Your argument is pure shit when you have to use scat as an example lmao)

"since the burden of proof is on you" how so? Everyone and their uncle believes there is a thing called an alpha and a beta. Its up to you to prove the world is flat when everyone believes it to be round. And why are you so obsessed with scientific journals? Is there a scholarly article that says you exist? No? So are you my imagination? Smh. Scholarly article is in no way a requirement to something existing.

But as i said, its very common for betas to not like the label and get butthurt about it and make ridiculous claims like this. If it doesn't make sense to you it makes sense to everyone else. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 😂

[weeee]

>then one would safely assume there is a type of person called a scat fetishist.

Who said im disagreeing? The point being made here is why dont scat fetishists get their own label and position in the hierarchy the same way beta cucks get theirs cause of a few article's existence. There's a forum on the internet where people staple bread to trees too, so now your hierarchy needs to accommodate them too. If you still don't realise how full of holes your justification was, i dont know what to tell you.

>And why are you so obsessed with scientific journals?

... because we are literally discussing how humans are supposedly organised a certain way on a fundamental level? Just like i would consult a painter when i wanna learn more about painting? A photographer when i need to know more about photography?

>Is there a scholarly article that says you exist?
What even is this comparison. Maybe it would make sense if i was a social hierarchy model.

>Everyone and their uncle believes there is a thing called an alpha and a beta. Its up to you to prove the world is flat when everyone believes it to be round

The general populace is dumb. So many people believe that eating carrots is good for your eyesight. doesn't make it true.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee i get from multiple points you made its the hierarchy that causes you problems. Are you by chance quite left leaning politically ie socialist or something?

[weeee]

Im not. And even if i was, why does that matter? you're supposed to debate the points being made, not the person making them.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee well just seems like you have an irrational dislike of hierarchy for some reason.

[weeee]

I dont know why you're derailing the discussion, oh wait i do.

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee are you too slow to understand how Alpha and beta is a heirarchy? That would certainly explain why you're so confused by something so simple.

[weeee]

When did i say i dont understand it? You haven't even understood the premise of my argument smh

[bamesjond0069]

@weeee you think hierarchy is "derailing the conversation. Its actually quite on point. Sorry im not looking to converse with a brick right now. Bye felicia.

[weeee]

Are you even reading? You asking if im a socialist instead of refuting my counter arguments is the textbook definition of derailing.

I can understand why you're "not looking to converse" anyways, you have no defences left. Back to ad hominem.

[Anonymous]

What is it about the terms alpha and beta that hurt so many people's butts? I don't get it. They are terms used to describe certain human behaviors and personality types, that's all. No one thinks these people are wolves for fuck sake.

An alpha is a person who is a natural leader, has a charismatic personality and tends to be dominant, not submissive. Use whatever term you want to describe that, but the term "alpha" is fitting and easy to use rather than explaining all those characteristics each time.

Likewise, a beta is someone who tends to be more of a follower, more submissive in nature. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a personality type, and a common one. Again, use whatever term you want but the term beta fits well and is easy to use. And again, there is nothing wrong with the term unless you have some irrational aversion to it. And that's fine too, but don't act as if others should have that same irrational aversions to these descriptive terms.

[Opinion Owner]

"This has lead to our current culture where modern day bullies simply relabel themselves as "alphas" or sometimes even "betas.""

No, the terms alpha and bet have absolutely nothing to do with bullies or bully culture. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of humanity. Using different terms to describe certain personality types has zero impact on that.

[R4zor]

some people struggle to realize a man is about being a warrior and when you say alpha a fk boy pops in their head nvm my man keep grinding you got this

[tupacs_only_wife]

Have you realised that these terms also endorse toxic masculinity. I bet you know the characteristics you're expected to have if you wanna be an "alfa" or "sigma" Even im a female yet it doesn't sit right with me. Literally abandoning your social life and emotions all because you wanna be strong yet your slowly killing yourself with crippling depression. Aside from that if Jesus himself wept yet he is the son of God then what denies a mortal human being the right to express their emotions?

[Opinion Owner]

@tupacs_only_wife The term 'alpha' itself has absolutely nothing to do with toxic masculinity. It has nothing more to do with it than the terms leader, dominant, charismatic. THINK about it.

[Rachelspiks]

YES! This needs to be said, loud and clear, far and wide! Preach! :)

[tupacs_only_wife]

True. I can't wait till the day men stop thinking they are fucking wolfs🤦🏾‍♀

[R4zor]

I am not wolf but you're a cunt

[Rachelspiks]

@R4zor And you're clearly a pathetic loser, judging by your comments here.

[tupacs_only_wife]

Seems like some one is not willing to have a reality check🤣. Did i bite too hard Mr. R4zor wolf🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣☠️☠️

[R4zor]

@Rachelspiks yeah I judge so what?

[Inexpensivefurniture]

THANK YOU I am sooo fucking tired of hearing about "alpha guys". You aren't an "alpha" you're just loud and rude.

[R4zor]

It depends on your presumption of being rude

[Inexpensivefurniture]

@R4zor Interrupting, talking over people, not listening, not taking others into account, thinking that every disagreement has to become an argument tgat he will win by calling others names and being louder, etc. Those are the rude things I see self proclaimed alphas do

[R4zor]

True and this is not alpha by the way this is some cunt faking strength

[anon1903]

Also, stop telling people the only way to win is through dominance. Even submissive guys can be happy!

Great share.

[R4zor]

their girlfriends wives will never be neither will them

[Rachelspiks]

And if that's the only way to "win", then I would rather lose.

[purplepoppy]

Put ten guys in a room, ask them to close their eyes and raise their hand if they're the room alpha and you'll get ten hands in the air.

Usually a barebottom spanking off granny shuts them up

[marish01]

The same applies to women. Ask them if they think they are strong independent women. Lol

[hahahmm]

Nobody ever said that bully is synonymous with alpha and for you to think that tells me that you were bullied a lot and still haven't learned how to stand up for yourself. Yes, there are weak people and there are strong people. I tend to think that one can learn to be strong but the older you get the harder it is for (most) people to change.

[myTake Owner]

Alpha is typically what modern day bullies use as an excuse, at least for tradition physical type "gimmie your lunch money" type stuff. As I pointed out, but you obviously didn't read, "betas" can be bullies too.

[hahahmm]

You were talking about labels. Nobody who talked about alpha & beta ever said a bully was either one as far as I've ever seen. Context matters in how those terms are used. And no, it doesn't matter why the terms first started being used, just like when people talk about race and it doesn't matter that race is a silly concept to people who really think deeply.

[Rachelspiks]

"Nobody ever said that bully is synonymous with alpha and for you to think that tells me that you were bullied a lot and still haven't learned how to stand up for yourself."
Right, because it's the victim's fault they were bullied. Idiot.

[hahahmm]

@Rachelspiks Actually it is if they get bullied more than once... it's called being a doormat. I saw it first hand when I would try to rescue bullied people in high school and later in life when I saw women who claimed to want to be saved from a bad boyfriend, only to see then date the same type of guy over and over and over again. No, it's not 100% their fault since the other person is involved but there is such a thing as personal responsibility when you're old enough to use your brain.

[Anonymous]

Yes exactly. I hate alpha beta delta etc. I am really tired

[TheMijopapii]

I don't care about any studies. Clearly some are alphas and some are betas. The captain of the football team is an alpha. The leader of a gang is an alpha. Followers and cowards are betas but sometimes someone is neither and they are an omega a lone wolf.

[Mofunfour20]

you're responsible for getting what you want, nobody else. You. People that complain about stuff they can't do anything about will drive themselves crazy. Not me, i got shit to do

[R4zor]

You are an alpha

[Mofunfour20]

@R4zor im a comedian first, too many funny mfs to get jokes from

[RenegadeSailor]

Your entire opinion here is bullshit.

Humans put things into categories and use those categories to describe them.

The wolf nonsense you are spouting is a talking point some numb skull feminist who hates men came up with.

The only reason you're pissed about it is you know that you're not the alpha.

[bingbongbangbung]

The way you use ad hominem shows you're possible self projecting

[RenegadeSailor]

Who you kidding, who ever wrote this isn't going to respond to intellectual discourse.

[R4zor]

@bingbongbangbung stfu and speak with facts he's right

[R4zor]

@bingbongbangbung no wonder 6% mho

[myTake Owner]

@bingbongbangbung Exactly! If only someone had literally just pointed out that douchebag bullies use the "Alpha-Beta" bullshit to excuse bullying, ad hominem attacks, etc. The irony would be hilarious!

[Rachelspiks]

@R4zor Why the hell don't YOU shut the fuck up, you knuckle-dragging imbecilic moron. You no doubt think of yourself as being "alpha", but in fact you're just a complete cretin who thinks that violence is sometimes excusable, and that others are there just for you to use, for your pleasure. This whole alpha/beta garbage is just that - GARBAGE!

[R4zor]

@Rachelspiks hoes mad?

[R4zor]

@Rachelspiks :))))

[RenegadeSailor]

Weak men always despise the strong for being everything they know that they will never be.

[goaded]

I love the Adam Ruins Everything series. Still haven't finished Brave New World, though. :(

[Anonymous]

Whether it does or does not exist amongst wolves is one thing. The fact that you appear to be so concerned about it shows that it does exist amongst people. And anyone who would watch and or reference, "Adam Ruins Everything," as a legitimate source, has proven themselves to be a Beta.