Outdated Gender Roles: What's wrong with society?

[LilWeezey]

I tend to be a very quite person, except on things that peeve me. One thing in the world that REALLY grinds my gears are Gender Roles/Stereotypes. These crazy outdating things that not only screw up the dynamics of relationships, but of society as a whole.

Because of these things it's hard for relations between men and woman to function normally. It's hard for people to embrace their natural selves because men don't want to be called "pansies" and women don't want to be called "butch". It's hard for LGBT people to be accepted into "normal society".

And it'll only get worse because these roles are being passed on from genertation to generation.

Both men and women are obviously victims to these things and thanks to: Google and https://www.healthguidance.org/entry/15910/1/List-of-Gender-Stereotypes.html .I've decided to list a few and whats wrong about them.

Women Gender Roles/Stereotypes:

1] Women are supposed to be pretty and be looked at: This one probably has to be the biggest downfall for women. From a young age we are told that we need to constantly worry about our looks and a man will only like us if we are attractive. They make tiny makeup kits marketed to little girls to "play with". Images of the "perfect woman" are thrown at us from every direction and if we don't adhere to the qualifications we are less of a woman, and not worthy. Look around GAG for instance and you will find dozens of girls asking if they are worth it. Woman go to EXTREME surgical measures to be "perfect" and/or diet to the point of starvation. This is probably the biggest thing that needs to stop. Because despite what society says it doesn't matter what you look like.

2] Women are meant to be the "damsel in distress"; never the hero: To me this can be interpreted multiple ways. Literally as to where in a bad situation we are unable to do anything, which is the biggest BS because there are MANY bad ass ladies out there in our military/police/etc which defend us every day. Not damsels but HEROES. I'm proud to say I'll be one of them soon. Another interpretation is in that men do EVERYTHING for the women. This is the BIGGEST pet peeve of mine. Nothing makes me more mad than a man who thinks I always need his help, that he needs to cater to my every whim and demand because "hes the man". Although I will never deny a mans help, if I can do it myself I will. Whether its lifting a box or paying for a date. Men should do things for us because they want to and because we deserve it, not because society tells them. Like wise ladies, spoil your man every once and a while.

3] Women are supposed to cook and do housework/Women are to be submissive and do as they are told: I put two together because I think these two go hand in hand. Although I do personally agree, any good woman should know how to cook, I don't agree they are SUPPOSED to. Same with housework. In a good worth while relationship things are EQUAL. Not one bossing the other around, which is why I combined the submissive thing. Because in a good worth while relationship there shouldn't be a submissive. Unless your talking sexually :p

Male Gender Roles/Stereotypes:

1] Men do not cook or sew or do crafts/Men do not do housework and they are not responsible for taking care of children: Piggiebacking off of the last female stereotype, I know plenty of men who cook. My boyfriend being one of them. He's actually very fond of it and I love it. We work together in the kitchen like a well oiled machine and it brings us closer together. I know, thry word of mouth of course, a few men who take care of the kids while mommy makes the bacon and these men love it. Some men have a better sense of being a parent than ladies do and thats completely fine. Said men shouldn't feel like less of a man because they rather stay home and cook and clean while their lady works. These men are bigger men in my opinion because they aren't afraid to bend and stereotypes.

2] Men are in charge, they are always at the top: Honestly this is kinda a poor attempt to piggieback off the second female one. I'm surprised "men always pick up the slack" wasn't more clearly defined on this list. Since its kinda of a thing. Stroll through this website and you'll find a lot of "men should pay first" "men should do this" "men should ask the girl out first" "men should initate sex first" etc. I honestly feel bad for men because you guys have a LOT to do according to society. I personally once again think the slack should be even. Women should pay for dates sometimes, women should ask guys out sometimes, and women should iniate sex (without being considered a slut, another steretype surprisingly also not mentioned). 50/50 equal partnership.

3] Men do "dirty jobs", they are not secertaries, teachers, cosmetologists/Men enjoy outdoor activities: This is more for those men who are under the LGBT caterogory but also for straight men for which "manly" things don't appeal to them. Straight or Gay or Trans, sports, cars, booze and fucking all the time aren't always appealing. Just like some chicks don't like shopping all the time. This is probably one of the most harmful stereotypes for men because they will get bullied if they don't fit in with the norm. Just as looks drive girls to do insane things, not fitting in with "the guys" can drive a guy equally crazy.

I can only hope our society soons abadons all these things and just let people be people. Just as we are not defined by our race, or our sexual orentation, we shouldn't be defined by our gender.

[Klara-Hitler]

"1] Women are supposed to be pretty and be looked at"

Women aren't supposed to be pretty and be looked at, Women "want" to be pretty and looked at innately.

If you do not feel this feeling maybe you're something super special. do not generalize your personal feelings to what women should be or believe in. it isn’t a good thing to do. If women themselves didn't want to be pretty and looked at then they would stop it in the last 50 years that they are fairly free. While we see It is the same as 50 years ago now and it even grew to an unnatural level in some countries like America with unhealthy pop cultures.

Also seeking physical beauty isn't something specific to women. Men too want to be good looking and handsome. But here the difference between sexual attraction of men and women puts less emphasis on the physical traits of men and more emphasis on the physical traits of women. But that difference is not even that great and physical and psychological traits both matter for both sexes when they want to choose a partner.

So women aren't supposed to be pretty and looked at, they simply want it.

"2] Women are meant to be the "damsel in distress"; never the hero"

Again, there were women in charge from very long ago. People who claim such things as women never did something because they were told they can't do it simply don't know history. We had queens and great women at least from 2500 years ago who had power in the most patriarchal societies like Greece and Persia. The Lacedaemonian women who owned lands, the Ionian Artemisia who was a queen and military commander, many poets either in Greece or in the east, there were many women who had important roles and never got degraded by the society or expected to be something else.

So if a woman truly wanted and was in the right place to be able to act upon what she wished she became what she wanted from ancient times.
And nowadays the only difference made for both men and women is that more of both of them...

[Klara-Hitler]

... are provided with the necessities of life and so more of them are able to act upon what they want and fulfil their dreams.

Now here the other women who don’t do anything special simply don’t seek that life. Not all women want to be policemen and firefighters and etc. The majority prefer many other styles of living.

“3] Women are supposed to cook and do housework/Women are to be submissive and do as they are told”

This is a funny one. Women were never supposed to “just” do the housework especially in the farmer nations. Between nations like Germans that their economy was based greatly on agriculture women worked shoulder to shoulder to their men outside of the house. We see it then we see it now.

But the reason that the main work of women was inside the house was greatly because of the heavy physical labor involved in any work and jobs outside of the house that made them almost impossible for women to do them. So when...

[Klara-Hitler]

…sharing jobs men chose what they were able to do best and their physical power let them to do and women chose what they were able to do best that was working in the house cooking, most women just love to cook, raising their children that again is a work loved by most if not all women and etc.

Some women want to show they were oppressed because of being expected to work in the house while it was actually 'Men' who had it worse in this sharing of jobs. It was men who died in battles, it was men who died in mines, it was men who died in timber industry, it was men who got tuberculosis working as blacksmiths and various diseases working outside.

So this sharing of jobs not only wasn’t for oppressing women but worked greatly in favor of women.
Still, women had many works outside of the house in farms or lighter industries.

Now in today’s world we don’t have the issue of the heavy physical labor in many works anymore.
For example you want to become a “police” in today’s world...

[Klara-Hitler]

…If you wanted to become a soldier 700 years ago you had to wield a 20 kilogram sword with one hand and a 50 kilogram shield with the other hand while wearing a heavy armor. You simply couldn’t even move with that equipment. And what would you do then? Sit and cry? No you had to do something to support your society and family and housework or taking part in light industries or agriculture was the work for you.

But now all you have to practically do is to learn martial arts and be strong enough to wield and shoot weapons that are fairly easier to use compared to a sword in a one on one combat.

So many works in general became easier to do especially physically, and so women are more able to take part in many of them though still many of them like mining are very hard and we see they are populated by men.

[Klara-Hitler]

So 1) saying women are supposed to work in the house and cook as something forced on women is corrupting the true image of working inside the house. Women love to work in the house and cook and take care of children.

2) Women did work outside of the houses but sharing jobs was and still is based on many physical and mental advantages and disadvantages that both sexes have and in the process most jobs outside of the house were and still many of them are more fit for men and their physical and mental traits.

3) Submissiveness is again a part of most if not all women’s nature. Many women like to be submissive and told what to do especially by someone they love. But apart from that, that is more of a sexual behavior, women were supposed to support not to do as they are told. And this is mainly because in the structure of family man stands as the leader of the family so the role of the woman will naturally be the supporter beside him. And based on their nature and their mental and...

[Klara-Hitler]

…physical abilities most if not all women willingly accepted and accept supporting and prefer it to leading.

So that’s for your misunderstood and rather silly descriptions of the roles. I can’t say it was an acceptable take. Next time read more and exercise your reasoning and have a better understanding of what you want to talk about before you talk about it.

[LilWeezey]

Are you for these stereotypes or against them?
Because i honestly have no clue what your trying to say

[Yc2K15]

Hahahaha @takeowner There you have it. You have no idea what she is talking about and I don't think you have very much idea on what you are talking about either. Sorry love

[ComDom]

Why Gender Roles are Natural and Okay.

The only way gender roles could be 'bad' would be if there was no such thing as evolutionary psychology and biology, probably among of fields of science. Fortunately there are both and we live in reality. Those stereotypes are not coincidence if a person takes in the whole picture. They emerged consistently and lasted for tens of thousands of years (if not more) throughout the world even among independent societies that had no communication with each-other.

Onto the biology: males are driven by a primary hormone, even today, called testosterone. Testosterone causes aggression, higher muscle development, lower body fat, and fat distribution among the mid section and upper body predominantly, among other things. Estrogen is the chemical that drives females and it is essentially the opposite of the male hormone. It causes traits that are more suitable for females to take a more gentle role for the sake of offspring.

Those hormones also caused psychological development that causes females to seek providers and protectors and males to assume those same roles. That is not stereotype. That is a fact.

Culture has developed based on those principles and has only skewed away from that in the last hundred years or so (presumably) due to feminism. But all feminism does, unless it somehow alters biology, is to cover up evolution. It doesn't remove its effects.

As far as LGBT goes they (mostly) are anomalies. They are genetic and environmental malfunctions, if you will. The point isn't to say they are bad it's just that biology has glitches sometimes. So gender roles are just a tendency.

Women are supposed to be pretty because "pretty" is a sign of health and the potential for healthy offspring. Women can be heroes. Most chefs are men, especially the most famous and successful. Women don't necessarily have to be submissive. Men were and probably are leaders because of evolution. Men were and are teachers.

[kheserthorpe]

TBH, I think these are a mix of cultural traditions and innate.

I grew up pretty much expecting almost no gender roles, though I would say number three for guys existed: I was expected to be fine with 'dirty' stuff, where my sister wasn't. But the other points, I was not raised with.

So I was pretty ill prepared for how dating and attraction actually work.

I think in a lot of areas that are probably more liberal, number three for women is dead, number one for men is dead. Women tend to do more housework, because women tend to care more. But most men i know do some, most men i know take pride in their cooking, and really nobody i know especially expects women to be better at cooking. And both are equally into their kids.

Number 1 for women? It's a massive driver of their dating success. That's just the reality. It's not likely to change any time soon.

Number 2 for men? I don't know if men have to be in -charge- but they have to have their shit together and be capable and confident. Otherwise good luck getting a woman who wants you.

I'm not sure on number 2 for women. I think some of it is letting men shine, but it's really hard to say if men pursue women who need help because they anticipate her being attracted to their ability to do so, or if they actually prefer it. I have known women here who commented their lack of 'needing' their husband was likely a problem in their marriage. And I must confess I feel an -emotional- draw to pretty women who -need- my help in some way. I don't consider that healthy, but it's there.

A lot of the simple 'conventions' like cooking have been destroyed at least where -I- live (I'm aware that's NOT true everywhere). But when it comes to who people actually want to sleep with and date, the old instincts are there: men look for pretty women who are sexually faithful to them and perhaps sweet, and women look for men who are powerful and capable.

Unless people start choosing sex partners differently, then kids will adapt to that

[JensonStatement]

I think the problem starts where people put rules.
Those stereotypes has always been there and they evaluate to stereotypes when you see that it's happening a lot and it looks like a kind of standard.
Sometimes it's pissing me off about how people want to break rules and be original and so and so. All those gender this and thats. That submissive and in charge thing just irritated people when the wealth became better. when the society was all about hoping and surviving nobody complained about this. Now wealth and health became better and people can have acces to making money everybody wants to do now.

This thing is that people now want to make money and so did feminism strikes in. They just complaining that females have to stay in house cooking and so on. They have more points to complain and protest but it all started with this and has a link with making money and be rich.

Everybody can say that it's not true but it all has to do with money but escalated that quickly to all the other stuff. They don't know what they want and not women but everybody doesn't know what they want. A lot of people are clearly not choosing for a big change.

Girls want to be a wife of a good men who has a good job.
Boys want to have a good wife and a good job.
But now people off everywhere and nowhere come to say what they want and using media and all to convice people that they are like that or shloud break of a chain. Which chain i don't know but there's a chain i see.
On gay guy tells that they... now everyone is doing.
On feminist tells that they... now everyone is doing.
One model tells women to be thin... everyone wants thin women.
Kim K got ass... everybody likes ass now.
And people get confused. I've got confused and i tell you. Out of the blue and out of the nowhere comes another thing. Fat is called curvy or shit. Trans people can get in normal people toilets, 31 genders in New York City.
It's not an chainbreaker it's a mindbreaker because people don't know what is happening right now.
Every year there's some chnge over here.

I can not understand what's happening right now.

[Werewolfy]

I don't get it. First women moan about the lack of gentlemen, the next they refuse to use old models. Well you can't have both! Establishing some sort of gender roles ensures conformity and order. It is supposed to maintain stable society as a whole and efficient. Not damage it. I'm not saying it is good or bad. Only that it has been working quite well for millenia. Furthermore to slap all societies under the common denominator of the United States is simply wrong. There are plenty of countries around the world where more or less stable gender roles are not only maintained but demanded by both sexes. Where more traditional values are not only harmless but widely accepted as the best possible structure of society. Just because American women demand to be treated as men does not mean it is the same everywhere. The former USSR had very strict rules when it came to equality. Women worked alongside men in most professions. Guess what. They didn't like it. In fact most women in Eastern Europe demand to be treated as equal only in the legal sense and as women in the interpersonal relations. In fact they go to great lengths to be more feminine (including those stereotypes) to make sure they end up with a man who treats them like that. They had all of what American women demand to have and they ran from it like it's a curse. I belive it is exactly our genders and sexuality that defines how we live out our lives. Otherwise you get chaos and end up unhappy. Then again this is just my opinion.

[Mesonfielde]

It is not chaotic if you bother to see people for who they are and not just what you assume them to be like based on their sex

[Werewolfy]

I rarely make assumptions when I meet strangers, however some basic expectations are always necessary just like you expect the laws of nature to be the same at a different country. Everyone has them. Otherwise you get exactly the chaos and confusion I was talking about. If you grow up in a society that says men should be tough and women gentle you expect that to be the norm for the future. Then suddenly it changes. There is no longer that unwritten rule. You end up unprepared and incapable of finding a mate. And even if you do, you'll seek someone who has your point of view. Not the popular one. Is that a better alternative? I think no. Then again I do not force my opinion. I simply voice it.

[bomba78]

Yes those "standards" annoy the hell out of me as well. Thankfully, at least in western Europe , this is shifting more and more towards equality. Many young men I have talked to are much more "neutral" and don't make much of a difference anymore between gender roles.

I am against gender roles myself, but it is important to appreciate gender differences. Men and women have different traits and are better at different stuff. The important thing is to put those strenghts to work and let them complement each other.

Also, I believe, the word "feminism" and what it means has been misunderstood by both women and men somewhat.
It doesn't mean that a woman has to be anti-men, not at all. All it has to mean is that women should have the right and the possibilities to do whatever it is they decide to do with their lifes. Freedom of choice.

Feminism doesn't mean that men are not allowed to be a gentlemen anymore. I have heard women say "I can open my own goddamn door". I think this is the wrong attitude about it.

I am a modern woman, who will gladly pay half of the bill of everything and insist on equal oportunities. But I also appreciate men for all the good things they are.

[Izzy2102]

Obviously there's a problem with putting people into categories as traditional gender roles do, but I don't even think that's that bad.

What I think is way worse is that we selectively took out some parts, but not others. Overall leading to a lot of confusion and frustration
Going with damsel in distress thing, well ya but at least in the 50s and 60s it was right in your face
3.bp.blogspot.com/.../...neath-planet-apes-007.JPG
Whereas today you have those weird characters like tomb raider who seem like strong women at first, but really are more liking fighting sex toys. Or that chick from transformers who is essentially a pretty girl that knows stuff about cars and is otherwise completely irrelevant to the plot
static.tumblr.com/.../tumblr_static_large.jpg And I don't know if you've seen that pompeii movie that came out last year but those people sure as hell couldn't decide what they wanted. They were trying to make her independent and strong, standing up to social norms, yet she was a liability to everyone around her and need saving at every turn

I can relate more women in the media but I see that for men too. I think the 80s and 90s were more liberal than today. Full house after all is a show about three men raising kids.
In in sitcoms today on the other hand fathers are more of a liability to their wives who screw up their children's life constantly

[Mesonfielde]

That is why we would need female characters in movies like what we had in the game called Remember Me

[ladsin]

First, I agree with part of your statements. It is true that there are some gender roles impressed by society that have either are no longer relevant, or were sexist and ignorant originally. These sorts of gender roles should be destroyed for the freedom of all peoples. That being said, I do think we as a society are making leaps and bounds for equality of all peoples regardless of race, creed, sex, or sexual orientation. By no means am I insinuating that we are perfect, but we are trying to better our society. Now, on to the specific situations that you mentioned starting with the women. 1.) Yes, and no. If you wish to find a suitor (whether you're male or female) attractiveness and cleanliness are imperative. This does not mean that woman's only worth should be from her appearance, but you must admit that as visual creatures appearance does matter (for both men and women) 2.) To an extent I agree again, women should not be coddled and treated like babes who cannot defend themselves, that is derogatory and demeaning. However, looking at biology it is evident that males (to a great extent) are the more physically powerful of the two. Even in the military and police forces women are held to lower standards to enforce "equality" and this is BAD. It tells women they cannot perform to the same standards of men, and is especially detrimental in combat units you are putting peoples lives on the line with people not held to the same standard of fitness. 3.) This is probably one of the few I totally agree with you on, it is a disgusting practice. This is largely due to antiquated moral codes passed down through religions that say women are not as capable as males, and therefor, in order to ensure female subjugation women are deprived of a means of self sufficiency. MALES: 1.) This is historically based when men were the hunters and females the homemakers, but yes in today's society no longer necessary. (answer too long, last two for males covered in next answer)

[ladsin]

Males: 2.) Again, this is largely from an historical and religious context that taught women were not as capable as men and therefor must be lead. For example, the Bible tells women that it is a shame to speak in church and if they wish to learn they must ask their husbands and obey him. This again is sickening, women are cognitively equals, well... mostly bell curve shows some discrepancy but for all intents and purposes we are equal in cognitive abilities. 3.) what you said in the title and what you said below are different. I think you are guilty of stereotyping here. I know many homosexuals who are extremely masculine and enjoy many of the same things I do... Just because someone is homosexual doesn't mean they're effeminate... BUT moving past that, there are some biological reasons why men prefer competitive sports like football etc (testosterone) and why women tend to prefer social "games" (estrogen?), but sure we should all be able to work. getting long again so goodbye for now!

[ManaX]

I relevance to the bible quote, there is historical reasoning behind that. Although, I doubt you'd be bothered to look into it even if it would be a cure for your sickness ;p

[ladsin]

@ManaX my sickness? I admitted that there was a historical reason behind it, same as the biblical condoning of the act of raping women. Morality evolves as a culture and society as a whole does. A few thousand years ago oppression of women was not deemed to be bad. This could be to many factors, of which one is that they are the truly "sinful" creatures (not just the bible but many other religions, but now, in the vast majority of the world we find those notions sickening and thus outlaw them.

[LilWeezey]

Thanks @ladsin your one of the only ones who seemed to actually read my article fully and understood im against these stereotypes. Or at least your phrase your comment properly.

I feel like everyone else thinks I'm for the gender roles

[ladsin]

lol but you said the exact opposite?

[LilWeezey]

I know. Maybe im misunderstanding what they are trying to tell me. But like i said i think they think I'm for.

Someone said " i want guys to spoil me" I'm positive that what i said in 2 under men will show i want the opposite

[PonyCar]

I hate gender roles for the simple reason that it frequently ends up with the less-qualified/skilled person doing the job. In the same vein that gender roles prevent people from being themselves, I know many females who are far better managers of their time than males and are able to get far more done in the same amt of time, yet the male is the one asked to accomplish a long list of tasks (because 'he's the man and supposed to provide a good home for his family to live in') while the female is 'supposed' to just take care of the kids.

My dad was a way better parent than my clinically narcissistic mom, but because he was the man, he wasn't allowed to stay home and parent. My mom, who had a way higher education level (& job prospects) could've gone into the medical field and made a MUCH more efficient provider than my dad, but because she was the woman, her job automatically became parenting (which she sucked at).

The crap-tastic thing about all this is, (aside from my family literally breaking apart thanks to the above issues), even if my mom HAD gone into the medical field, gender roles would have automatically made her a lower salary earner than my dad because women weren't supposed to be doctors (the shot-callers) they were supposed to be nurses (the support). For those wondering, my mom was valedictorian of the college with the top medical program in the country.

Whoever is better at the job, should do the job. That's it.

[BarbaraP]

I have to say that I grew up listening to all those stereotypes and I am a victim of them. It's when I started thinking for myself that I understood how stupid they all are. They make us think that's how things go and how they should go... they make us think it's necessary or else the whole world would fall into pieces.

I won't say that men and women are absolutely equal biologically speaking, because we all know it's not true. But we're civilized enough to overcome each and everyone of these prejudices and consider ourselves as equal in other ways. Maybe women tend to have less physical strenght than men, but do they have to be the ones in charge because of that? Absolutely not. And nobody should be in charge, actually, whether we're talking about women or men.

I know many women who are afraid of starting sex when they're in a relationship because since they were little they were told that women shouldn't do that, that girls should always be pure and classy. And sex is not classy.

Aren't we all human beings?

[Mesonfielde]

I will never know how those prude women end up having kids to indoctrinate with their noise

[BarbaraP]

Well, the women I'm talking about know that it's not good to be so prude and they're trying to overcome it. They're also victims of this prude mentality that their parents taught them. But you're right, there are many women who actually believe that girls should be kind of asexual and have sex just to conceive or satisfy their partners and that's so sick.

[heavensgift2girls]

The problem I see is that the traits that men and women tend to be attracted to are directly linked to gender roles. While people shouldn't be made fun of for not fitting into a gender role, the fact is that people that are too different will have more difficulty finding a partner.

Women are far more likely to be attracted to men that serve as warriors or protectors such as cops, firemen, or a member of the military. Men on the other hand are far more likely to be attracted to women that serve as nurturers, and caregivers such as nurses or maids.

If we never encourage our children to develop at least some traits the other gender will find attractive then they will end up like the whiny nice guys that can't get a woman interested, or the whiny career woman that can't manage a relationship. We have to make some compromises in our life to please our partners. It is unreasonable to think that we should never compromise and work on traits the other gender actually cares about.

Currently I see such a push away from gender roles that I for one think it is unhealthy. It has reached a point were women feel ashamed of wanting to become housewives, and boys are being shamed for wanting to play cops and robbers. There is a balances between forcing kids down an gender role, and trying to completely stamp out all signs of gender roles. Society instead seems to only be able to reach towards one extreme or the other.

[ReneDS]

i partially agree and disagree. I do think there should be clear distinctions between men and women. First of all , our physiques, and i know a lot of women don't want to hear it but women aren't special ops commandos in the army, never seen one. Did i see women in the army, yes and they all got the respect they deserved. how do i know because i was in the army myself. Anyway, lets continue. Actually everybody should do his or her best to look the best they can, not for others but for yourself. the way you look most of the times reflects the way you feel. thereby i disagree with your statement that its only women who have to look good. actually men stand longer in front of the mirror than women, when they have a date. i see so many guys working out for just 1 reason, not for themselves but because they want to look good for the girls. I think its a sort of narcacism feeding of from each other, men want women to look good, and women want men to look good, and thereby we forget the things that really matter in relationships , its called love. it is truly sad that the media creates such stereotypes, thats the part i completely agree with. also concerning the things we should do what first, like paying for a drink or aproaching someone they are interested in. Normally its men who do so, because we feel its our duty. we feel proud when we get a girl we like to talk to us, date with us and actually let things go as far as a relationship. would i like it if a girl aproaches me, yes i would but i also like to aproach a girl. i think its natural behavior, i see it in the animal kingdom and thereby woman are sometimes far more valuable than men , because you just need 1 men to creates hundreds of babies , but a women can only get 1 child at a time ( yes twins i know.. ) well anyway well written take!

[Accipiter]

I don't think there's anything wrong with gender roles. However I think they can be overstretched and extreme in certain circumstances.

Men are attracted to women with feminine traits, and women are attracted to men with masculine traits. Being a guy, I love women who try to look pretty, have home making skills, nurturing and caring. I want a girl who I can open up to on an emotional level. Most girls I know like men for strength, protection, comfort, etc.

I think gender roles originated thousands of years ago back to primitive history where technology was limited and males and females were certainly better at doing certain things. Testosterone and estrogen affect people differently.

However, I don't think we need to live by gender roles as if they are a doctrine. For example, I hate it when people say that construction, mechanics, engineering, fixing stuff, politics, etc. are "men's work." And I hate it when people say nursing, teaching, interior design, cleaning, cooking, sewing, etc. is "women's work." You'll be interested to know that I know how to sew and I taught my older sister how to use a sewing machine. I also love working with tools and fixing cars.

Therefore, gender roles hold the fabric of society together just as long as they aren't used to ridicule and discourage others from doing what they want to with their lives.

[bloodmountain1990]

That wasn't the case when women liked guys who wore girls pants. Luckily that trend has been over for awhile.

[Roycaryn]

The actual origin of modern roles trace their way back to the invention of the plow. Non-state societies have overwhelmingly been documented as having significantly less rigid gender roles than civilizations. The idea that a woman's unique, traditional sphere is the home for example only first appeared in the late 19th century.

[Yc2K15]

ok mate, lets give our nail bags and our 400kg tool boxes to the ladies and see how long it takes to build a house. Physical strength is needed for this job. Women are very much involved in all of these jobs so If anyone says women aren't in construction then they are fucking stupid. Women dominate the BOH in construction. HR, Site supervisors, project managers and even factory managers. Women are more than welcome into trade but that doesn't mean they can do physical work.
I know this might sound bad But I am in construction and I have met about 20 women on site, All were either on steroids and had tattoos or were cage fighters.

There comes a harsh reality with even men who think they can do construction because they are men. They realise the job is far too difficult and physically and mentally exhausting. If I was a girl and my partner worked as hard as I do (16 hour days), I would be more than happy to cook him dinner...

[Anonymous]

I'm in something of a neutral agreement with you. I don't disagree with the points here, but just have a different line of thinking.

Despite what most people believe, the world can't make you hate yourself or hate what's expected of you. It can definitely provide plenty of incentive, but you're not obligated in any way (other than social pressures) to actually conform to these standards.

I fortunately learned this in my already short 25 years of living. Again, I don't disagree with your points, but I still consider them to be on the minor end of the "find something to blame" spectrum. If you look to others for your SELF-image, if you look to others to determine your behavior, your values, your beliefs... if you rely on others to mold you- then you shouldn't be surprised when you feel self-conscious, frustrated, and hemmed in by social expectations.

Alternatively, if you learn how to blaze your own trail, how to make up your own mind, and how to deal with resisting/tolerating the pressure to conform (or the criticism you receive for "acting out")... that too is also a struggle. It's easy to be a sheep, but it's not rewarding. It's hard to be a wolf, but it's very rewarding.

There isn't a 'best of both worlds' option, unfortunately. But that doesn't mean being that lone wolf isn't the best and healthiest way to live. Obviously, people crave and thrive on social interaction. We're very social animals, so it stands to reason that we're going to be interdependent on average.

But in the marvelous words of Les Brown: "See it’s easy to be on the bottom, it doesn't take any effort to be a loser. It doesn't take any motivation and any drive in order to stay down there on a low level. But it calls on everything in you. You have to harness your will to say I’m going to challenge myself."

[Yc2K15]

Im disagree strongly because I am not a living stereotype like most of you fools.
My relationship would blow people mind if that is how the world is perceived.
I think this post was made for 1920. The Men and Women Gender roles you have described are completely not even close to how I was raised. Maybe its because too many parents aren't training kids to look after themselves and spoon feeding them so men are being lazy.
Most girls I know can't cook at all or don't know how to use an ironing board. These things mean and meant absolutely nothing to me because I know how to do it and it gives me something to do. Also the control thing should be irrelevant. Why the hell does any gender want to be in control.
Seems like you've had a real bad run with guys or I am living in a parallel dimension.

[bunniexx]

That's weird to me people not knowing how to cook especially when they're adults. My mom never taught us how to cook but, all us ( except one brother) taught ourselves how. I took classes. There is just no excuse for either gender not knowing how to feed themselves or their family.

[Yc2K15]

I think this post is extremely sexist and this is the REAL problem with society. That and Women's massive urge for materialism and cosmetic surgery... 99% of women I know make their own choices.
You chose to be with that man so thats your fault. YOUR FUCKING FAULT NOT MINE!!!
ALL it says is a bunch of bullshit that to be honest the more I read the more it pisses me off!!!
You have basically just attacked men with a massive generalisation and stereotyped us all. Your post says nothing but bad about men.
Men and women for fuck sake!!! WE ARE DIFFERENT please girls when will you learn! Women have to give birth and have periods almost their whole life and all the things girls go through. YET you will sit here and complain men do all the hard work... well OH MY GOD !!! take it as a gesture. Men are physically stronger than women so it makes sense for us to do the hard work because unfortunately a lot of women's body's are extremely fragile. get off tinder!!!

[Yc2K15]

plus your vagina is extremely powerful and you have been taught by your mothers and sisters to use it to your advantage. If you are dating a man like this. Then simply don't give him the pussy. If he changes great, If it just makes it worse, leave him. there's plenty of dicks on the street.

[Yc2K15]

@bunniexx
I was a boy who liked good food so I learnt how to cook it. I also was inspired by old school gangsters etc. to keep tidy and have n ironed shirt and clean clothed and a clean house. I was kicked out of home at 13.
I know one group of about 30 girls who are all beautiful and love to party. Not one could cook to save their lives, and I mean as bad as can't cook toast without burning it. ALL of these girls chose Home economics in school, while boys chose sport and wood or metal work.. MEN AND WOMEN had a chic to do any of these classes and YES there were men and women in all of the classes. I never studied home ec.
Also these girls eat out almost every day and take pics of their food, then go home and watch master chef, Then their man cooks them dinner.
@LilWeezey just sounds like a raging sexist, or one of those feminists that don't understand equality and want to be treated like a princess.. ITS NOT A FUCKING FAIRY TALE IT IS REL LIFE.

[LilWeezey]

How do i sound like a sexist? I'm against these stereotypes. @Yc2K15

I dont want to treated like a princess. I want the opposite. I dont want men to worship the ground I walk on because society tells them to.

[Yc2K15]

If you read your post again it is very bias towards men. all of your points regarding woman state that women are supposed to be treated like slaves and all your points on men state men think they own women.
What if I were to meet you and fall in love with you, we were alone on an island. You were so fascinating to me that I started to worship the ground you walked on. What if I found you so beautiful in body and spirit that I wanted you to be my princess. These feelings aren't bought on by society. These feelings are called love. When you love someone you care for them as if they were a princess. The word is a metaphor.
Who the hell wants to be a princess! They live horrible lives and are controlled by their parents and all of their surrounding peers. Not to mention paparazzi.
You need to stop thinking a princess is Cinderella and that she is real.

[BZerpy]

Lets look at this in a broad perspective. Humans, by their very nature are evolved that our genetics determine the best course of action we take in life. Cavemen didn't just decide that the men would hunt. No, genetics determined that.
Like a river flowing it is pre determined by its river bed, if you dam the river the water will find other ways to flow. Much like gender roles. You cannot stop a genetic urge from both genders. Men will do men things women will do women things. Try to stop these urges and the natural flow of life will be interrupted and other things will change, like the damming of a river. The flow will change but the natural urge of a river to keep flowing will continue!!

[muspelhem_5]

I think there is more variation within the genders than between them. I have met lots of women for whom the 'natural flow' is more masculine than it is for me. I have also met lots of men for whom it is more feminine. Take Owner is advocating freedom to be how you want, and I agree with that.

[LilWeezey]

Thanks brah

[Jersey1]

Imhave a traditional marriage and it works well. Your take has some simplistic views of it though. My wife is happy, we have a great family amd pretty much everything we want. It has worked this way for thousands of years so it works. Oh, and my wife wanted to stay at hime and raise the kids... In many ways she is lucky in the life she has had. You just dont understand it.

[Anonymous]

I'm a gay trans guy and I actually tend to enjoy dirty jobs, it makes me feel better about myself, because I'm doing something most people don't want to do. Although a lot of guys hate doing dirty jobs. I like to clean, I hate cooking, I know how to sew, knit, crochet and cross stitch and I know straight cusguys who do as well. Almost all the men I know love taking care of children (I don't though, kids dont like me :(). I am extremley dominate and lead whever no leader has been clearly identified.
Whether people saw me as a girl or as a guy these things have always been true and I'm a great example the gender stereotypes are BS.

[LilWeezey]

Thanks for your insight :)

[neofuture]

Holy fetus on a stick, gender roles only exist if you think they do, do whatever you want you wanna be a dolled up preppy girl do it, if you wanna be a feminist downer of all men do it, if a dude wants to fucking knit a scarf do it. I have no idea why it's so hard for pepole to just do what they want. Just fucking do it don't think about it

[HuckyHucky]

THIS. Some people go around acting like anti-gender superheroes ridding the world of inequality one unnecessary rant at a time (not aiming this at you @Asker, just speaking in general). I say, shut up and do you. All the talking is bullcrap. Actions will always speak louder than words and most normal human beings seriously do not give a crap about what you're doing with your life anyway because they're too busy worrying about themselves. Go find people who share your viewpoints and interests instead of trying to get the whole world to agree. Life is too short to be ranting about this crap instead of just doing you.

[neofuture]

Amen sister

[LilWeezey]

@neofuture @HuckyHucky

I totally agree. But I needed to vent because I hate being told by people that I shouldn't feel bad that my boyfriend pays for basically everything we do. Because " it's his job as my boyfriend"

I certainly dont feel worthy of spending his hard earned money

[muspelhem_5]

If no one spoke about these things, only the bravest would dare break the mold. Sometimes people need role models, inspiration, and the belief that something is even possible.

[neofuture]

No one needs to belive anything if they just actually do it, how is this a hard concept just do what you want, simple as that end of story, a girl playing with an action figure or a boy playing with a fool is no "role model" just fucking children playing, if pepole just weren't weak enough to think about others there would be no need for this shit, it's incridebly basic do what you want, fuck the rest

[bijinbijinbijin]

I agree with @jersey1
I think marriage tends to work out best for the couples who do it the traditional way. People complain that people are so old fashioned and that times have changed but yet its always the old fashioned types who are more equipped for marriage whereas the newer generation just can't do it, they have so many children out of wed lock and also fatherless children, they can't even find a compatible partner.

My fiance's parents have been married for over 30 years. His mom makes way more money than his dad but They are still extremely old fashioned and they are both happily married and continue to go on dates with each other.

I don't see anything wrong with traditional roles because they do work and they keep the household together but if you are not going to do it the traditional way then two people have to establish some kind of roles and acknowledge them and that's hard for the younger generation to do, they just don't know how to work together with a partner.

[Punkbuster107]

But raising your children and having a happy family isn't as important as standing up for your own rights and well being.

*Sarcasm!!! Don't worry, I totally agree with you. =)

[pooper89]

exactly, the woman in the marriage can still make a lot of money but there's nothing with still adhering to gender roles

[Anonymous]

There are reasons those roles have been in place for eons. There are some very fundamental differences between males and females and they are genetic in origin. Believing men and women are the same and that gender roles are just social constructs is pretty naive.

[ThreeMonkeys]

Well said. I would just add that the only place men and women need to be equal is in the political and professional arena. Both sexes need to be treated equally and should have equal power.

[Opinion Owner]

Women do have equality in the political and professional world. Or more accurately, they have equal rights and opportunities. The only differences arise due to what men and women choose to do with those rights and opportunities. Men and women make different choices, on average. Women will never earn as much as men on average as long as more of them choose less demanding and less lucrative career paths. Nurses will never get paid as much as engineers, nor should they be. But women are just as free to choose an engineering career as men are.

Men and women are different, with different priorities and needs. We need to stop trying so hard to attribute the outcomes of those differences on sexism because it sends a bad message that women are not in control of their own outcomes.

[Jager66]

There is a sever lack of compassion for men and a sort of over protection for women, like treating them as if they are children. This is at the heart of traditionalism and feminism.