For those of you that don't want kids, what exactly is it that made you decide or feel that you don't want kids and that having children is not for you? And why? Is there just a single reason, or multiple reasons.
Typically, I'd expect answers that because kids are expensive, can't afford them, able to have more time to yourself and not have to babysit someone constantly, etc., I'm sure there are more, so tell me about it.
For me, it has to do with my "reality check" and "very deep thinking". I have a much more pessimistic outlook of this kind of a world. If any of you had ever read David Benatar, Arthur Schopenhauer, Emil Cioran, or even Percy Shelley's "Ozymandias", then you either would feel and think similar if not exactly how I feel about this kind of a world and reality.
I feel that it is better off that nobody else has to come into this kind of a world through me and have to see this world for what it really is. A world filled with cruelty, injustice, pain, suffering, etc. perpetually, a world that has perpetual conflicts.
A world where we all have very little to no control over what the fuck would eventually happen and then people have to DIE and it's INEVITABLE.
BUT WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO LIVE IN THIS KIND OF A WORLD AND MUCH LESS, EVER COME INTO IT AND BECOME PART OF IT?
Obviously, nobody was ever given a choice to pick and choose beforehand, but if you were, then would you have reconsidered?
And because of this, and the way how I see it:
NOBODY HAS TO BE BORN, NOBODY "NEEDS" TO BE BORN.
And if one was never born, one would have never suffered, and would never have to die inevitably some day, and all to repeat the process, again and again.
I just don't believe that is is right, fair or just to IMPOSE life and existence upon somebody else that had never asked to become involved and born into this kind of a world.
1/2 - You're a very pessimistic person and you always come around to this same topic again and again and I wonder why that is?
I too share your sentiments, or so I did, in the past. I'm more on the fence now and it's something my mind wonders to every now and again; to be or not to be? I'd say count your blessings, to be apart of such a cruel, yet beautiful world. There certainly is pain, pain beyond measure, but there's also pleasure, however small it may be; there's sadness... yet there's joy. Life is beautiful and if you look close enough you'll see that.
You seem to be the sort of person that likes to wallow in their pessimism and takes great pride in it like that's some sort of virtue; that you see the world for what it truly is... so what? It's not going to get you anywhere. It's not helping you and it's certainly not easing your suffering by any stretch of the imagination. You're young and I'm young and every young person probably shared the same thoughts we did when they were our age. But there's a point in your life when you realise that such thoughts will make day-to-day life harder and more unbearable. Many people can overcome such thoughts, such negative, negative thoughts and carve out a nice life for themselves, with time and effort. And with that time they may not have everything they wanted, but they may be content and peaceful and boy, that's more then enough.
You seem to be saying that it's a sin to bring an innocent being into this world, but that's from your subjective, pessimistic opinion. Isn't it a sin for no-one to experience the epic-ness life? Life is suffering yes, but I've accepted that and I've chosen to move forward despite that, I've grown content with having no control over my future, my destiny and I move forward in the darkness, the unknown, with my little light and that's thrilling yet unnerving. Life is a war and I hope to live and fight it for as long as I can; however long that may be.
Life is a blessing friend and life is a curse. Some of us a born into more of a raw-deal then others, maybe you did, I certainly did; but there's something great about going through the trenches because you come out the other side feeling like you've really lived. There will be peace in death and that's calming, I know it's waiting for me, so I’m going to experience as much suffering and pleasure as I can before I depart, no-matter how much it hurts, I owe myself that, I owe the universe that.
2/3 - Sure life and existence is imposed upon us to begin with at first, but from the moment after you’re born, you can make up your own choice; the only person imposing life/existence on you now is yourself. If you’re somehow dissatisfied, then stop your whining and go and do something about it, there’s always other alternatives (hint hint) and I don’t mean to sound harsh. You may be angry at your parents now, “how dare they bring me into this world and how dare others bring children into this world", but that attitude may soon come to pass, after all, you’re only twenty-years-old for goodness sake. That attitude certainly changed for me, I got over my victim mentality and once I did that, life got a little more easier and enjoyable.
3/3 “A world filled with cruelty, injustice, pain, suffering, etc. perpetually, a world that has perpetual conflicts.” Yet you fail to mention the opposites. It may sound inauthentic yes, but be the change you want to see in the world, where others show cruelty, show compassion, where others receive injustice, show justice, where there’s pain and suffering, show comfort and love. And with time and enough people that will slowly spread and soon the world and everyone in it will be a little better then they were before.
@Crumbles "And with time and enough people that will slowly spread and soon the world and everyone in it will be a little better then they were before."
There's already a drop in birth rates the last I've checked whether a large percentage of them share antinatalist beliefs I do not know, but things are definitely not the same way they once were. I honestly doubt things are actually going to get "better" in the future, but that's entirely subjective, yea sure, maybe for those that have significant financial resources and never have to worry about suffering an unexpected job loss and then becoming homeless and having to sleep on the streets one day.
Either way, each to their own, my real point with this whole question is really to make it clear that never expect everyone to have the same exact outlook on life, reality, existence, etc. and THUS everyone should NOT EXPECT EVERYONE to HAVE kids or WANT kids.
I did check your age, which said 20, then I checked your profile and I swear what's written at the top of your page wasn't there yesterday, why be so dishonest? Are you insecure about your age? If so I understand, really, it's not a big deal. But please, lets not bicker on about trivialities here. Just because there's been a drop in birth rates doesn't mean you can't strive to be a good person and do good to the others around you. And the world is actually getting better, you'd think differently right, like of course it's getting worse, but it's not; the media would tell you otherwise because it's constantly releasing streams of articles exploiting or making profit over mostly negative events. If you're up for a read, read 'The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined', by Steven Pinker, if you haven't already. It makes the claim that we are living in the most peaceful period in humanities' existence. Might be a nice change of pace from your pessimistic literature.
@Crumbles "And the world is actually getting better, you'd think differently right, like of course it's getting worse, but it's not; the media would tell you otherwise because it's constantly releasing streams of articles exploiting or making profit over mostly negative events."
I'd have to dispute this. To me, it's just a very long calm before a very very big storm. Although nothing happens overnight, nothing catastrophic or cataclysmic, but when it finally does, no one will be ready for it and see it coming. I figured that nobody has to become part of this world and come into this world either way, and most certainly not through me, just trying to find similar perspectives on this every so now and then here.
As for the age thing, I don't sign up with real birth dates or real information unless it's for official use E. G. for school, buying stuff online, etc. where I'm absolutely required to use real and legit information about myself. Certainly this isn't one of those sites.
You just said it we're in a calm place at the moment. Today is the best time to be born and live. Just because there's a storm coming, which is sure, yet unsure, shouldn't hinder you or set you back; you should go out and live despite it or you'll just end up like the character Caden Cotard in the movie 'Synecdoche, New York', not the character of Adele Lack. We need to spend less time thinking about the things we have no control over because it doesn't lessen are plight any more and start focusing on the things that we do have control over. Pain and suffering, I'd say is a positive thing, it's necessary and without it we wouldn't enjoy their counterparts. It helps us grow as people and more so then we ever could without it. All I can say is that I love life dude, I won the lottery, quite literally as the chance of being born is one in 400 trillion. I've spent my fair share of time cursing at my existence and cursing my parents for bringing me into fruition; but now I've done a 180.
I understand that you don't want children and all the power to you. We're way to populated as it is and if you can contribute to lowering said population then we'll have a far better quality of life. I'm all for population control, like 1-2 children per women, that's something I'd proscribe too. So it's a good thing that more people are anti-natalist, it's a necessary evil, because it'll give a chance for society and the earth to have a breather.
@Crumbles I can't relate to the character of Caden Cotard, he has a wife and daughter. Give me a different character that is similar to Rust Cohl of True Detective. I wonder if there are any fictional characters out there that are single for their entire lives, don't care anymore about relationships, gave them all up a long time ago, since they don't believe it matters, don't believe in love, and don't believe it would make them happy, hold anti-natalist beliefs, and just deal with their emptiness and miseries from keeping busy with school assignments and work, and occasional video games here and there, bet there aren't many, if any such a character in fiction at all. Because that's how I am.
"I've spent my fair share of time cursing at my existence and cursing my parents for bringing me into fruition; but now I've done a 180."
I honestly still feel and wished that they never met. But there's nothing else I can do other than choose to never have kids and remain single indefinitely.
By referring to Caden I was meaning you're very similar in the way that you're both very pessimistic and obsess over the worst aspects of life which inhibit you from truly experiencing and living life in its fullness. If anything, I didn't start this chain of comments to debate being an anti-natalist, more so talking to you about your pessimistic outlook on all things, which I'm concerned for because I've been there and it's very damaging to mental/physical health and if you're not twenty and are a bit older and have had these thoughts for a while now, that's a very dark path and it doesn't end well. All I can say is have fun in that head space, dude, if that's what gets you off, then that's what gets you off I guess.
@Crumbles I tend to re-inforce my cynicism and pessimism. All to remind me to never get any hopes up on things getting better, because they unlikely ever will. You don't have to remind me of the dark path or whatever you want to call it. I just know we're all gonna be dead in the end one way or another. But since we're all stuck here, just do what you can do cope with it, either learn to live with it or don't. I really wished I wasn't part of this planet and species altogether, rather had not been given a frail and vulnerable form of existence. To me, being human is being trapped in a prison of flesh, blood and bones, "bio-organic matter", entirely a result from sexual reproduction. I rather had not been the results of sex or two people's genes, but it's not our say or choice in that matter. I always thought that if I existed differently or was CREATED differently completely, with a completely different physiology that isn't what I am now, then maybe I'd be feeling much better.
Alright then. I'd try not to get caught up on the "What ifs", that's just going to be make you all the more dissatisfied with your current form, or existence; be grateful for what you've got. The human body is a beautiful thing to study and behold. I know you're hard as a rock with your mental attitude so I won't try talking to you about this again. We're both pretty stubborn in our stances I guess; I'm on one side of the coin and you're on the other.
"I know you're hard as a rock with your mental attitude so I won't try talking to you about this again."
That's what I meant by "never expect everyone to have the same exact outlook on life, reality, existence, etc." You can't really change someone's outlook, etc. It is what it is.
Sometimes I wondered if there are any antinatalists out there that actually date and have relationships, etc., and if they do, it's probably with other antinatalists too, or at least with those in the "childfree" crowd, but it's probably rare. I even once asked if anyone ever had dated an antinatalist before or whether they'd be willing to do so.
"The human body is a beautiful thing to study and behold."
How it is created, generated and re-created over and over just isn't my thing, as I find the genetics system to be awful. I've ALWAYS favored things being assembled, built, engineered, processed and activated into existence, etc. Forever upgradeable and expandable , kind of like how technology is.
"I've ALWAYS favored things being assembled, built, engineered, processed and activated into existence, etc." Can't go wrong there. We've created some beautiful things us humans ;).
@Crumbles "Can't go wrong there. We've created some beautiful things us humans". But sexual reproduction is anything but that, and are limited, and thus limited results. It's too problematic, the whole process and then the results are just as frail and vulnerable.
I was thinking along the lines IF ONLY I wasn't created by or born from the results of two mere mortal human beings but rather if I was a sentient A. I.-like being, kind of form, created, assembled, built, engineered into existence by some other powerful, sentient A. I.-like being, residing on a completely different world, planet altogether; forever neutral and never involved in any sort of conflict, struggles, not aligned with anyone or anything. But that's just the thing, we can't pick and choose how we exist, what we want to exist as, how we are created as and what we're made up out of and consist of. The time I'd spent here in a mere mortal frail body made up of bio-organic matter sure isn't what I would've wanted at all.
Your fantasy for how you'd want to live sounds like a horror movie to me personally. I love the fact that we're frail and fragile and that we could die at any moment; this makes life so much more valuable and makes us realise that we could lose it all in a moments notice. I don't want to live forever because immortality isn't something I'd ever want. And to be neutral and have no negative emotions and struggles? That sounds fucking horrible to me man.
You probably misunderstood what I meant and implied when I said "I've ALWAYS favored things being assembled, built, engineered, processed and activated into existence, etc. Forever upgradeable and expandable , kind of like how technology is." That's basically what I meant by it wasn't the way how I expected and wanted my own being, my own creation of how I had came into existence, of how I was made.
"And to be neutral and have no negative emotions and struggles? That sounds fucking horrible to me man."
But there's void of all pain, miseries and suffering. Hard to have any sort of incentive to exist, ok I get it, it would be very hard to impossible figure out what would one do or to have any sort of purpose if at all, if one was completely void of all emotions, suffering, pain and miseries, at least, from the human perspective. Since we've always needed to suffer in some form or way FIRST, before good things have their meaning to us.
And only very few responded they're willing to give up all of the "good" to completely eliminate all of the "bad" in their existence.
Although it's not the same as being able to pick and choose how one were to manifest into the physical world, and how one were to be created and come into existence into this reality, universe, etc., Otherwise I bet some of us would have rather been something entirely different, residing completely on a different planet and world altogether instead of the one we're all currently on.
I knew what you meant as we had this conversation a year or so ago. I went of track and was referring to other things humanity has build like great works of architecture and sculpture, and so forth. Probably didn't articulate myself fairly well there and I'm sorry for that. :) :/ :( I think I'm out for now man. It must be tiring being negative. You've drained my energy for the day. Misery loves company but I'm not miserable anymore haha. Happy Easter my man and I hope you're not pessimistic enough to not enjoy it. Have fun, eat some chocolate, and spend time family & friends.
@Crumbles I think I can help ease the miseries and sufferings that I have with pessimism and cynicism by getting a pet or something. That's all I can really think of. Kind of like some form of emotional support, well another form of coping mechanisms, but it will at least be much better than nothing. I haven't completely decided yet though.
What sort of pet are you thinking off? First things first, when the time comes, you need to name your pet Marty like the character from True Detective; you'll level each other out haha.
@Crumbles "There will be peace in death and that's calming, I know it's waiting for me, so I’m going to experience as much suffering and pleasure as I can before I depart, no-matter how much it hurts, I owe myself that, I owe the universe that."
That's about all we can really do anyway since it's completely futile in the end. Check the updates with a long ass quote from Emil Cioran, maybe it will entertain you and you might like it.
Couldn’t agree more with all these quotes and I love true detective. I’ve always had the view that nobody knows why were are alive or why we’re here so what’s the point in perpetuating this meaningless existence to another generation Having children in the past made sense when there weren’t too many people around and you needed more hands to tend to the farm to survive. Now a days I just think the world is vastly overpopulated and people that don’t reproduce are doing the world some good. Plus, in my opinion having kids is for the poor and uneducated, I’ve worked my ass off and saved money to get to where I am and I’m gunna enjoy it to the fullest with lots of fun, traveling, dating, and learning. All my siblings have kids and it’s like they’re trapped for the rest of their life putting all their time, money, and energy into these kids that probably won’t amount to much anyway.
@dolemite Check out the long ass quote in the updates, maybe you'll like it. Ultimately in the end, everything is futile. Creating life is also enabling the possibilities of misery, suffering and death, since all life comes with an expiration date, although no one can or will ever know exactly when their time will be up and how their exit from this world will actually be like until it finally occurs.
In all honesty, I do not subscribe to the notion of me controlling sentient beings; these include children and pets. Sentient beings are not returns on investments; thinking otherwise seems to suggest that freedom is outright dismissed.
Hypothetically speaking, having children under my custody implies that they are subject to heed my ideals, notwithstanding individual differences. My ideals may be flawed, and I do not intend to reflect these flaws unto feeble, young minds through procreation at the expense of an offspring's prospects for emancipation. Being a controller of a life separate from my own is to the least of my liking. In my view, parenthood is in the likeness of indoctrination; levels of benevolence and tolerance vary among families of different cultural upbringings. Indoctrination does not tolerate opposition, and ties based on consanguinity should never be considered as a reason to conform against one's will.
Parents' freedom to have descendants of their own comes with the deprivation of an offspring to exercise his/her freedom in his/her favor and towards his/her end. This is prevalent in the status quo; radically conservative households, particularly the religious archetypes, exemplify uniformity and the herd mentality in thought and deed in adherence to the ideals of parents rather than acknowledgment of differences. It seems hypocritical and counter-intuitive for adults to break themselves free from parental custody, only to find themselves eager of propagating the very familial setting they have disaffiliated from.
I disagree with your parenting style then, a parent should be there to protect and nurture not to indoctrinate. And even the most angry and outspoken of parents cannot stop someone from having free will, I was screamed at repeatedly for being an athiest and not believing in Jesus, but that didn't change my belief system. The amount of control parents have over their children is over stated.
But we ALL have been influenced by the people around us and the society and media that we observe. From my experience I know many children who have deviated from their parents ideals because of either their emotions, or because of the disagreement that the people around them share. The whole point of being human is that we are a social species. We take input, and then output it again whilst making connections to other inputs we might have had. Thats how we were eventually able to develop civilizations. If a parent believes the "earth is flat" for example, and they may share that with their children whilst they are taught in school that it is round, they might start to disagree with their parents eventually.
Instead of adding to the population and increasing problems, I want to sacrifice my natural instincts of reproduction in order to focus on the children that we already have, as well as, the realities that we are facing.
I can help provide better education, unconditional love, shelter, meet a child's nutritional needs to a child who was already born- not wanted or not able to be taken care of. I don't even have to adopt, I don't mind helping other families or single mother or fathers to keep their children. because I know that once they have a child, there is a deep and special bond. I want to help save that.
This world wouldn't go round without some people having children, but i'd like to sacrifice my time and purpose to helping others. I believe that if we take care of our neighbors, we are ultimately taking care of our brothers and sisters. I hope to help as many children as I can around the world so that they help build a sustainable future where they focus on unity. People disagree, but learning to understand others and learning patience can help us focus on the ones who need the most help.
No Apocalyptic Alien God is going to grace us by beaming us up into the sky to save us. All we have is each other and one planet. Like, living is painful but i wouldn't know what was good without that pain.
But I look at it thus way, no one needs to know anything about this world at all. Those that aren't born don't need to know the "good", the "bad" and the "ugly" things in this world. They don't need to know and experience pain and miseries, they can remain as they are unborn, unconscious and never involved into and become part of this world.
The "good" and "bad" part is completely and entirely subjective ONLY AFTER someone exists and is involved and had became part of this world, this reality. Because that is the ONLY way one can feel, think, and/or decide for themselves what is "right" for them, and what isn't; what is "good" to them and what isn't, and so on. Can't feel, think, decide, etc. when one isn't conscious and have self-awareness since one was never involved and became part of this world.
Yeah, they don't need to know it. For sure. But I mean, one could argue that the point of life is to face hardships so that our souls may grow? I guess it depends on their beliefs.
One can face hardship alright, but imposing life, existence which automatically comes with hardship onto another? That's where I find it questionable, and largely unfair and unjust. If one was ALREADY HERE AND EXISTING then yes, then one must face hardship, grow and or whatever indeed, because at that point it would absolutely meant that one can't completely avoid it at all forever anyway. If they aren't already part of this world then growth, hardship should not be created and given to them by conceiving them into existence as they have no need for it, nor demands for it.
hahah ya, I feel that! I'm just thinking of how the entire planet was originally created... All this beauty. Through a chaotic chemical accident. After disaster comes beauty and peace.
I mean, we never know the true purpose of life, but we can gain an understanding by observing science
Purpose? Does there ever had to be a purpose or any purposes at all? Who said there had to be any purpose at all? Or is it only because some of us "desire" there to be a purpose or merely because some of us "want" it to have a purpose?
Survival as a species, but not individually or in general. Even your own offspring can die before you do.
The latter would meant whatever you want your life to be about and decide what you want to do. It's really all just in our heads in regards to what really matters at all, if at all.
Some of us are just meant to think more deeply into things to figure out what others can't for the sake of everyone. I respect you for digging persistently. What are some new things that you found about this topic?
I'll let you know if I've discovered anything else new about this topic. My point really is it's a big gamble, if you can accept the risks and consequences of whatever the outcome may be, then go ahead and take those risks, otherwise, forget about it completely.
Most individuals with a pessimistic outlook such as yours do not achieve or get far in life in my observation and analysis of various sources. Suffering, hopelessness, perpetual conflicts, and death are all part of the world and give our life much more meaning. Perhaps we, as humans, will evolve and develop technology that will allow us to transcend the rules of physics, consciousness, and death and create a world or galaxy where the word “life” is different from how you and me define it. We’ll never know how far we’ll come unless we live and strive. Pessimism never amounted to anything at all. It wouldn’t have even amounted to you developing the level of intellect in creating this question of yours
You're going off topic bro. Was trying to find and see if anybody didn't want kids for similar or exact reasons here or if it's for the other more typical reasons. @PoliceLivesMatter
And just for the record, I really don't need to achieve a whole lot, just by having enough to get by is all that really matters. And besides it comes down to what exactly is it that one really wants to achieve, if at all?
I know what you were doing, but I was also addressing your pessimistic attitude. If our ancestors were pessimistic, we probably wouldn’t have evolved to be this self-conscious or intelligence, hence, you not even asking this question of yours. It was the optimism of our ancestors that allowed them to hunt and explore uncharted lands that eventually progressed into us evolving and bettering our lives in all ways possible. The nihilistic approach probably is based in a faulty processing of the brain. It’s similar to when a machine becomes too self aware and starts to overly questioning their life and it’s meaning. The thing about meaning is, it’s not only what you make of it but it’s also something that has no limits. We can be living on multiple planets, galaxies, and universes in the future. We can discover the gods... all of this needs to be done by optimism and human beings who don’t think life is meaningless and do not want to have children
Your thinking is faulty and hasn’t produced quality human beings. Imagine a world where we can upload our consciousness unto machines and once we die we can put our consciousness unto another body. Wouldn’t that change the meaning of life? Wouldn’t that make life worth living more than now? These things wouldn’t be possible, with a pessimistic attitude. Pessimism is lazy, unintelligent, and doesn’t allow for the progression of things.
@PoliceLiveMatter I rather never had ancestors at all, at least, not human and frail mortal ancestors that became destructive, chaotic, greedy, violent and corrupt as that's how it became throughout history. But again, not my decision or choice. I don't know them personally, and sometimes I think it would have been better off they didn't "evolve" only for us to get to where we are now. I can even say that our species did not need to exist either and things would be just fine as it is, there would still be suffering and pain but we would have never been involved and experience them. We may need our planet, but our planet don't need us, and it probably could have been better and balanced WITHOUT us. Humankind's history is very dark, it shows how we had been destructive and chaotic throughout, we've done many horrible and harmful things to each other, the planet and all other living things on it, and this kept on going. More harm and damage than "good", but it's all subjective. @Unit1?
Humans are what you should care about, not the planet. The world doesn’t have a good or bad element to it, but people do. For some reason or another, some people want to see death and destruction, some also want are negative and just don’t care about others. These individuals could be a product of faulty biological calculus and their environment. I have goals, wishes, and dreams and frankly don’t care whether or not there’s a afterlife or someone says there’s no meaning to them whatsoever. I FEEL it gives me meaning and maybe in some larger sense, it does impact the world and other lives in a better way. Human beings are only progressing and the sky is the limit to our evolution. Pessimism won’t bring us to new heights, but optimism and people who want to live and find meaning, will.
Either way we're never going to agree. Because we're not the same, goals are not the same, outlooks are not the same. You're optimistic and would rather take chances that there just might be a "good" or desirable outcome, I see it differently. Each to their own. You can't change me and neither am I trying to change you. I think our species is more likely going to destroy itself at some point eventually than ever making any real progress to technology that allow us to beat or cheat death by uploading our consciousness. I did want such a possibility for a long time since I find that the physical body and form I and consist of to be a prison of blood, flesh, bones, pain, etc. requiring perpetual maintenance. Either way that's only speculation and probably nothing more than "wishful thinking" realistically.
@policelivesmatter Either way it comes down to how and what we feel is the most appropriate choice for ourselves according to our outlooks and perspectives. If more people aren't having kids, I see it as less possibilities of suffering, miseries, pain and deaths added into this world altogether, but that's just the way how I see it.
@policelivesmatter If death didn't exist then reproduction and procreation wouldn't even have its purpose at all. But even then, reproduction and procreation does not ensure that any species will survive indefinitely because nothing is ever 100% permanent.
@MzAsh Don't forget the possibility of losing your child to something horrible if you had them that is. You may feel much grief or even regrets about it afterwards. Because the truth is, how much control do we really have over what can happen and what will happen @MzAsh?
@MzAsh Losing a child would be even more severe than losing your time, energy, freedom and money. Especially if it happens all of a sudden one day completely unexpected.
Why just western civilization? Isn't all of humankind and all life slowly decaying one way or another either way? Why worry? The number of people that want kids and have kids still exceeds the number of people that don't want kids and don't have kids on the entire planet. We're at over 7 billion humans plus all other life forms on this planet with a limited number of resources and the numbers are still increasing and will surpass 8 billion eventually, and so on.
I worry because I feel that humanity deserves better, but we can only attain a better existance if we keep collecting knowledge and expertise and then handing it down to the next generations in the hopes that eventually most of the serious problems will eventually be solved. That way, natalists won't really have an argument anymore.
As for the numbers - they are gradually skewing more in favour of the people who don't want kids than those that do - and I'm refering to the West in particular. I believe that if anyone is to achieve such technological and social progress that they rid themselves of most of the great ills, it has to be the West. But alas, young Westerners like you do not want to procreate much whereas I'm a friendless loner who can't do it due to circumstance, even though I very strongly want to.
Also, the Earth can sustain us all, the only reason it doesn't seem that way is because of poor resource distribution and wastefulness. But those are also problems that can be solved over time.
If antinatalists are right, then there wouldn't be anybody left to argue and debate about it, although it's very unlikely to happen unless somehow the world we live in mysteriously ended in a childless dystopia/apocalyse human sterility scenario like that of "Children of Men".
Extinction is still an inevitable outcome for all life forms on this planet regardless. Other life forms on this planet had came and gone. We aren't exempt from this pattern in any form or way. If the sun can expire, so would our planet follow as well. Yes, we cam try and delay, postpone or ignore and deny it, but it's going to result in that final outcome either way.
Well if there is any possible way to be able to live on indefinitely then there's no point of reproducing at all anymore. It's death that gives birth any sort of purpose. Won't need to add more people and new people if people didn't have to die in the very first place. But if nobody is able to reproduce somehow, then we better find a way to live indefinitely or just accept extinction altogether. With the way how we are as a species I highly doubt we'll last that long. I would rather that we changed and evolved so much that reproduction is no longer required altogether. That we are no longer restricted to being confined in these mortal prisons of flesh, blood and bones. Prisons of perpetual desires to fill some void in our entire existences.
I'd still procreate. The prospect of spending time with a child in and of itself sounds good to me. That if I was immortal, I'd be a better parent with each child since I can keep learning indefinitely from my mistakes and eventually raise a very exceptional person.
Evolving to the point that procreation is not necessary is dangerous since if a sudden or gradual die-off happened, we wouldn't be able to replenish our numbers. That abandoning these bodies kinda diminishes our humanity. I don't know where the line is when a human is no longer human after having replaced all of their natural body with machine parts.
Not if the immortality is on the level where almost nothing can kill us anymore and that we are no longer required to maintain anything at all anymore to keep living and existing; indestructible and fully adequate, but very unlikely which is why I said extinction is the inevitable outcome. If that was attainable reproduction and procreation becomes entirely redundant and probably shouldn't be possible at all anymore. Odds are those wouldn't be humans at all anymore even if they were somehow descended from humans. Probably wouldn't even be made out of bio-organic matter or materials anymore.
That kind of immortality isn't happening, I'm pretty sure. By immortality I meant we don't age and are pretty durable to diseases but not indestructible - that's impossible under the current laws of physics.
Still requires constant maintenance to keep living and stay alive, gonna just run up the fucking bills. Just like how weddings and having kids would as well. If we go by current law as physics then extinction IS the inevitable and final outcome. I even said "near" indestructible assuming humans can even evolve and get that far, which is highly unlikely. Because if the universe dies actually comes to an end and dies then so too would everybody and everything within it. But it would be quite an accomplishment if humans "evolve" and got up to that far and found a way to almost defy and break those laws of physics somehow.
"For those of you that don't want kids, what exactly is it that made you decide or feel that you don't want kids and that having children is not for you? And why?"
I was a kid myself. I was suffering a lot, dealt with incredibly difficult times, suffered from everlasting depression and so on. The bad far outweighted the good in my life. Bringing a kid into this kind of reality? That's what I would consider to be immoral and cruel because nobody innocent (who never asked for this in the first place) deserves any of this.
Oh and they are expensive in our overpopulated and capitalistic world, which is so money oriented and we don't get to see any more money than maybe just enough for our basic needs.
"Obviously, nobody was ever given a choice to pick and choose beforehand, but if you were, then would you have reconsidered?"
Ja. If I was able to review my life in beforehand and then be presented with the buttons [Accept] [Pass] or [Exit] I'd press the Exit button.
Life is a constant process of dying very freaking slowly.
I made the decision not to have them because I'm an egoist. I don't want to lose the freedom I have to choose how to live, my habits and how and when to die. I don't want to keep on living because of a mother- child bond. I mean I don't hate children I love them and I still look forward to be the cool aunt someday maybe who now's. But I don't want to bring a child to this world when I don't want to be in it. So it's confusing because everyone in my family want me to get married my parents expect grandchildren but I've been very honest with them since I was young. And it's not like I lack the maternal instinct I do, I even went though a stage of my life when I wanted so much to have one, a family a loving husband but I'm done with it. That doesn't mean that if I somehow get pregnant I wouldn't love him. I would and I would be the best mother I could for him or her even if I have to do it alone. But since I'm the older child who was always reminded to be the cause my parents got married and fucked their life's for. I would be very afraid and probably running to a therapist for nine months until the birth and probably after that I would hate to repeat my childhood. And yes you're right bringing more children to this world as it is now... It's dangerous, scary and a huge responsibility.
I'd consider sterilization altogether and not take any chances of having a pregnancy accidentally or one that is completely unplanned for if I were you. Take no chances with it, or maybe you're still on the fence and have second thoughts?
I'm seeing a therapist now. He told me that maybe is my depression talking so he encouraged me not make any rush decisions And I don't now I've read somewhere that people's personality and feelings can change every four years. So yeah I'm having second thoughts although if I do change my mind is because I'm in love with someone and willing to bond nothing else would do and that is in my opinion something difficult taking into consideration my trusting issues so... How about you, any chances hypothetically talking that you would change your mind?
Impossible to change under any and all circumstances. Did you go through the entire description? I can Never agree to subject another life or person to come into this kind of world where they must face harm, pain, suffering, death, as I see that this is a world in which NOTHING IS EVER SOLVED. Since all life consists of such I refuse to since I don't agree with it at all. We can only make more mortal fragile human beings, we can't create a sentient being completely immune to all the bad things like pain, harm, suffering, etc. and immune to dying altogether, an immortal being now can we? Well, other than just in fiction. Since that's only possible in fiction it makes it merely wishful thinking and are merely concepts, well you get what I mean. Those limitations of life and existence in reality are the reasons why I WON'T re-consider or change my mind ever.
Well, I respect your opinion. I understand why you made it. And I totally share the feelings although I wouldn't close that door too many regrets in my life.
Well. The guys I dated and some friends told me I'm the most selfish person they knew so far because of the decisions I take. But thank you you're a sweet guy :).
@AbbyC What do you think of this quote?: "To procreate is thus to engage in a kind of Russian roulette, but one in which the 'gun' is aimed not at oneself but instead at one’s offspring. You trigger a new life and thereby subject that new life to the risk of unspeakable suffering. -David Benatar
Or how about any or all of the quotes in my description?
Personally, the thought of having children is terrifying to me. Part of me wants to have children. I want a little person that is half me and half the person I love. A part of the new generation that I can raise right and do good. The world is terrifying and I would hope to bring a little bit of good into it. But the thought of being pregnant is alien like to me. No part of me desires to go through that. Then I think of all the things that could go wrong and would I be able to handle it? What if my child has a disability? What if they are diagnosed with cancer? What if they're bullied? What if I'm not a good parent? I'm a messed up person who comes from a family of messed up people, I don't want to mess up an innocent kid.
At least you kept all those what ifs in mind. Others are overly optimistic about it thinking that nothing can ever go wrong. They're deluded to think that nothing can ever go wrong.
That's true, I don't think people truly realize how hard it is. I have a lot of experience working with kids so I know just how much can go wrong. Honestly, people should have to work with kids before deciding if they want them so they know what to expect.
@angelgirl7? It's either that or try getting a pet and taking care of it, although taking care of a pet is largely different compared to taking care of a child.
Something like that. I mean more so a required high school or college class. I remember my cousin having to take care of one of those robotic baby things when I was younger. I took some child development classes in college. Plus just learning things from people I know and on the internet that I didn't know could happen when you have kids (to your body, to your kids). A pet would be a lot different but it could teach responsibility and pets are much like children (getting into everything).
@angelgirl7 Either way it's absolutely right in regards to the endless amount of things that can possibly go wrong. Sometimes it's not even your kids' fault or your fault but someone else's fault. I mean things that are completely unexpected and beyond our control, as in the way how this world really is: when people are in the wrong place at the wrong time, they're fucked. I mean you can only reduce the odds of bad things from happening but you can never absolutely guarantee that they won't happen. People can die from a natural disaster, become a victim to a horrible, die or become crippled for life because of accident and vehicle accidents are quite common, there's also various illnesses as you had mentioned, and then the worst of the worst, tragic or even gruesome crime all just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and nobody knew or expected something like that to happen to them or would happen to them. Shootings are enough evidence for this kind of a horrible outcome.
I have read "better never to have been" (and "the second sexism") by David Benatar. I think it's a compelling theory and would explain why people yearn for an ultimate meaning to life, otherwise we go through suffering for nothing. However, Benatar's theory is based on an atheist worldview. This could explain why European countries, which are largely irreligious, have low birth rates. As a Christian, I would say that my kingdom is not of this world, hence the suffering that we endure in this world is not meaningless.
Ok, you have a point. How you believe and see things will factor into what your choices are. At least you also had read "Better To Never Have Been". Although it does make me wonder if there are anyone that has religious beliefs and are still antinatalist and believe that procreation would result in more harm and bad than good, or are all Christans or religious folks pro-natalists?
Sigh... I guess that's how it is. I've yet to encounter anyone that is Religious AND Anti-Natalist. I wouldn't mind hearing from them and hear what their perspectives and perceptions are.
@smart_alec It appears there are religious groups that had antinatalist views, ever heard of Marcionism, or how about the Encratites?
The following are Not my words, but from an older Wikipedia entry:
"The Marcionites believed that the visible world is an evil creation of a crude, cruel, jealous, angry demiurge, Yahweh. According to this teaching, people should oppose him, abandon his world, not create people, and trust in the good God of mercy, foreign and distant."
"The Encratites observed that birth leads to death. In order to conquer death, people should desist from procreation: 'not produce fresh fodder for death'."
So perhaps, antinatalism does exist and occur even in religions? The Wikipedia entry also said Buddhism had some relevance according to how one of it's followers had interpreted it with this quote:
"Buddha states his propositions in the pedantic style of his age. He throws them into a form of sorites; but, as such, it is logically faulty and all he wishes to convey is this: Oblivious of the suffering to which life is subject, man begets children, and is thus the cause of old age and death. If he would only realize what suffering he would add to by his act, he would desist from the procreation of children; and so stop the operation of old age and death."
But I guess it all comes down to how people that follow any religion interpret the teachings and text of those religions and how they see things in this world.
I totally get that having kids is important. Otherwise the human race--and on a smaller scale, a civilization, a family line, a people--would vanish.
For me. Me: "I'd probably consider suicide if a girl told me she's pregnant and it's mine." Her: "And that's why you're 26 and no kids." 1. It's hard for me to find someone I've attracted to, who has a personality I like, also who likes me. I wouldn't want to risk that with the stress of kids. 2. I'm not rich. I don't want all my money to go towards a kid and be poor and stressed out. 3. I don't want to be the expendable third wheel like so many fathers are. 4. Lots of women just get married, have a kid, then leave once the kid is 5 or so. 5. I don't want to be a babysitter and have a constant responsibility. Life is hard enough. 6. If I have a solid relationship enough that she would want to have my kids, why on earth ruin that by having kids? Enjoy the gem you found and be together.
"I totally get that having kids is important. Otherwise the human race--and on a smaller scale, a civilization, a family line, a people--would vanish." Even this is entirely subjective, depends how much value, importance, worth, etc. you perceive or feel that humanity and humankind has, or is it only because you want it to be important, have value, worth or matter? Inevitably nothing lasts indefinitely and permanently, not forever, there is always a finality, even our sun and solar system will expire eventually and die, so what makes you or anyone think or feel that we won't too? We can only post-pone and deny the inevitable for as long as possible, but it's still is what it ultimately is and will be. Anything you guys want to add to what I just said? @Unit1? @serious? @menina?
Well, I can only agree with the both of you is all I can say.
Why throw your life away for having a kid or kids? We don't get enough free time to enjoy our lives since we are occupied by 1. Sleep, 2. Work, 3. Studies (as a young adult at least) and 4. Life related maintenances like Hygiene and hunger (on top of the sleep of course).
We are left with so little free time and a kid would drain just this little leftover piece out of us. When civilization, society and the government come to a better way of the living norm, so that we aren't threatened by unemployment, financial problems, political conflicts and so on, THEN there may be a possibility to actually debate about bringing children here.
But things didn't change so far, so I rest my case right here.
@RationalMale This post is very dark, it's full of hopelessness and cynicism to the point that I can't help commenting on it. A lot of GAG users --the majority, actually-- post really dark things on this website but I wasn't expecting it from you. Don't let your soul wither.
@rose004b There would be even more hopelessness and suffering if one were to either lose a child of their own to something absolutely horrible or gruesome OR if they turned out to be someone horrible, a monster and done horrible unspeakable things to other people. As that is something that would scar someone forever and they'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives. As David Benatar had said "To procreate is thus to engage in a kind of Russian roulette, but one in which the 'gun' is aimed not at oneself but instead at one’s offspring. You trigger a new life and thereby subject that new life to the risk of unspeakable suffering." Meaning either way it's a gamble. Look before you leap and be ready to accept all possible outcomes and consequences for one's choice and decisions, because you can't rewind, undo, take back, or "put the genie back in the bottle", whatever happens, happens and is reality one must face.
"I totally get that having kids is important. Otherwise the human race--and on a smaller scale, a civilization, a family line, a people--would vanish." Even this is entirely subjective, depends how much value, importance, worth, etc. you perceive or feel that humanity and humankind has, or is it only because you want it to be important, have value, worth or matter?"
Well, what is important to you, may not hold any importance to someone else so you saying that kids are important is a subjective type of perception, it really depends as to how a person sees that and various other factors for example whether the person is responsibility and family driven or not and so on.
However in the following sentences of yours I do agree that not having kids meaning your generation will end with you and family line will vanish, correct.
"Inevitably nothing lasts indefinitely and permanently, not forever, there is always a finality, even our sun and solar system will expire eventually and die, so what makes you or anyone think or feel that we won't too? We can only post-pone and deny the inevitable for as long as possible, but it's still is what it ultimately is and will be. Anything you guys want to add to what I just said?"
Well, your logic is correct. Yes everything inevitably will come to an end, be it our Sun or anything else.
Too many people I know with kids are absolutely miserable. I’m already clinically depressed now; I don’t need screaming kids making it worse. Also I severely dread joining the argument about what constitutes good parenting. Mothers so often tend to be at each other’s throats and constantly criticised over everything that they do and I’d rather not be part of it. I want to enjoy my life.
I think your view is flawed. Without life there is no meaningful existence.
I may dislike my life but like my existence. I love being alive and able to think, to sleep, to learn. Even in depression I had things I wanted in life, both short term and long term.
The world is filled with pain yes, but it's also filled with happiness, positivity, and good.
I am not positive, I am not happy, but I have done good, and people have done good onto me.
And I appreciate the sacrifice my ancestors went into order to ensure a better life for me. And I will do the same by providing my future children a chance at life, and before during, and after their birth I will fight against the evils I can combat.
And if I die, I die. I don't want to simply because I desire just a few things before I go. And one of them is to experience the love of my child. The love of a woman.
If I was given the option to be born I Would say yes. Because the only way for me to even make that decision is to first be born as a conscious being and then contemplate qhat I'd decide. But without life there'd be no contemplation. So at least there's one positive to our lives, contemplation.
Each to their own. I can never agree with creating new life through me. I even forfeited on all things relevant to dating, relationships, etc. Decided to remain celibate and abstinent indefinitely instead.
Everyone has different mindsets and pesrpectives. That is the whole point, neither should we always expect everyone to have the same mindsets and perspectives, either opimistic or pessimistic. I think the more pessimistic or realistic a person is the less likely they'll ever want the traditional life path of becoming married and having their own family. To me I find it to be a complete fallacy that it would result in absolutely "happiness" or "lived happily ever after" after on has found "love", married and have their own family with kids, etc. More often than not divorce are about half or 50 percent and people can change their minds about how they feel etc. about their spouse, and maybe other things too. Thinking or believing that someone else is the only way to "complete" you and make you "happy" or "fulfilled" is a recipe for disaster, as you're solely depending and relying on them for you "happiness". To me, it's all but delusions and lies we constantly tell ourselves.
@Naydyonov The way I see and feel about existence here is that we're all trapped and imprisoned in these prisons made out of bio-organic matter or bio-material, prisons of blood, flesh, bones, etc. and these prisons absolutely require perpetual maintenance to sustain ourselves and so depending upon how able we are to continue to maintain our "bodies" will determine how much suffering and miseries that we'll be experiencing since there's no other way or alternative, even attempting to escape this kind of a prison would still result in great pain, misery and suffering before it all stops. And then you also have all the negatives and bad things that you'll absolutely face while being in this kind of a prison. You also become trapped by all that which you desire and have desire for, all just to fill that empty void to a futile existence. That cold empty void will always return eventually even when you had thought you had it all completely filled.
Well, the answer to your title question, which is how do I know if wanting kids for me is for me or not?
Well, the reason is I only find kids/babies cute but only from a distance and in videos and images only, in reality and honestly speaking I am a very selfish type of person and I don't want to take the responsibility of bringing up a child, in fact I want a life where I can live that by my own rules and do things I love to do, I don't want to lead my life fulfilling only responsibilities all the time.
Bringing up children is a big responsibility and I don't want to take that responsibility.
I hate kids, always have hated them. They're loud, annoying, rude, drain you in every way possible. Emotionally, mentally, physically, financially. I can't stand them. Ruin your body with pregnancy. I'd be more fulfilled doing other things in life like traveling and continuing working towards my dream job of being a funeral director and when I am one. I'm going to see my doctor soon to take the next steps in getting my tubes tied. If someone wants kids and likes kids that's fine. I just don't. Some people are fulfilled raising a family and some people wouldn't be. I personally wouldn't find it fulfilling. Why waste my time on them?
Okay, not gonna lie, I stopped reading your post halfway through... You can totally judge me for that..
From all of the couples with whom I have discussed this topic & then further researched it myself... Here is what I found:
(1) Couples won't have children, but will adopt them bc of their legit love of children. (2) Screaming children cause unnecessary migraines. It's unbearable for them, physically. As a result, they feel inadaquate to be fit parents. (3) They don't want to have kids... If one doesn't have an obession with one day having kids... THAT'S okay!
If more people aren't having kids that's actually a good thing. Less people added into this world, less people become subtracted from this world, and since everyone will eventually become subtracted either way? Well, you get what I mean. More adoptions are also a good thing, as that's actually being resourceful instead of imposing life onto someone that may not like this world for what it is and how it is, and may wished they had never been born, or wished that their parents had never met or known each other.
We've got some problems with this world right now and I wish more people would start worrying about that instead of trying to have more babies. Let's make sure they have a world to grow up in first, huh?
@Bananaman177 It's "depressive realism". If things all went to shit some day and the shit hits the fan, where we are all in a world of hurt that when we are all going to get a very rude awakening. So far it's just the calm before the storm. And in this kind of world, EVERYTHING and ANYTHING can absolutely go wrong completely unexpected and unplanned for AT ANY TIME.
You meant by looking at the bright side if things? Well, all I can say is that, hey at least we're still alive and kicking! Well for now, at least. Now let's hope it stays that way for another 60 or 90 years at least.
A. I have a huge major blockade in my brain when it comes to pregnancy. Just thinking about it shuts my head down with a big, fat "NO!". B. I'm not good with children. I can't do children's talk & I get annoyed when children talk to me because I have no idea how to deal with them. C. They're utterly disrespectful. When I'm busy, then I'm busy & don't need someone screaming for me, expecting me to drop everything I'm holding at once to take care of them (the same reason I don't want pets, lol. & why I don't work with customer service.) D. Children are so irrational, it's driving me nuts.
I had gotten impregnated on purpose at 19. Not my choice. My sons father claimed "he was pulling out" but wasn't. I was mortified because I never wanted kids. I love kids just not my own. I considered abortion but didn't follow through. Now I'm stuck playing both roles as mom and dad to a onrey, hyper active four year old. I work as a nurse now, go to school, house etc and trying maintain a social life is unreal. I'm miserable 86% of the time because of my son. I can't do nothing because he is so clingy. I can't go out on weekends because I can't afford baby sitter. I can't even shit with out him. I love him but I find myself wondering what life would be like with out him. I envy you for not having kids.
I'm truly sorry you were put in this situation. This is also similar to why I don't want kids. Even people who wanted kids, a lot more than you'd think end up regretting it. But it's too late, they can't do anything about it if they decide to keep it. I think after a certain age it's too late to adopt him out. Because there's already an attachment. In the unlikely event I change my mind that can be easily fixed by adopting a kid. Having one, the fix isn't going to be easy. Or one wouldn't exist at all. I am curious why you didn't put him up for adoption right away. Forgive me if my post depressed you.
It's definitely unfortunate. But after carrying a baby for nearly a year you just can't give it away like that. I know it's temporary and the e older he gets the more independent he gets. I'll have my life and freedom back one day. But I have learned my lesson. I'll never have anymore kids.
I have a hard enough time taking care of myself, let alone a kid. We have created a shitty world and I do not want to bring a life into it to suffer and die.
Also, I have bad genetics. Multiple mental illnesses are common in my family and I don’t want to further spread that through the gene pool. I want to experience this life on my own and check out when I’m ready.
@theoneironaut I personally find and think that the genetic system is fucking awful either way. You either end up with great genes, okay genes, mediocre genes but still enough to get by, or the worst possible genes with the worst conditions. I never liked the fact that we are all part of this awful fucking system that is completely part of life, at least when it comes to all Earth-based carbon-based life. Always have resentment over it because I rather had never been part of it at all. But it is what it is. If I got to pick and choose how I would exist then I wouldn't want to Earth-based and carbon-based life at all. Why even be human at all?
I am not anti children.. I know many people who absolutely love their children and I’m happy for them and their children. For myself if I had kids I’d adopt. Kids don’t have a choice entering the world and so many don’t have a bone so I wouldn’t bring new kids in. Kids who are not born will not know they are not alive... Kids that are here stuck without family will know very well they are miserable..
Nothing has made me decide having kids isn't for me. I think if I had a good woman by my side then I'd make a great father. I still am unsure if I want kids though, I've never had a real urge or desire to be a father, maybe I'm just too young or haven't gotten far enough into a relationship though. Mostly I just want to live for my hobbies and I feel like I could be very happy just living my life for my to please my SO and enjoy the hobbies we share together, without children.
It's a beautiful experience having a child and watching them slowly develop their unique personalities. I don't look at life in such a negative way nor keep my focus on it. Therefore I see more of the beauty it has to offer. There's usually something good that comes out of something bad even if it's just a lesson you had to learn. And I believe most people think the same way. Because if they didn't why would they even try to live out their life. No one would care about staying healthy or fighting illness if this world had nothing good to offer.
I recognized there is much more bad in the long run. Great amounts of suffering, pain and miseries one has to go through in this reality, and none of it exactly was our "choice" to begin with, we did not pick and choose to come here into this world and reality, and some of us feel out bad and negative experiences are greater than that of our "good" ones. The only two things that are GUARANTEED for people to go through and experience is suffering and then a death at the end. I question if that's what I want to subject a new person to, and the conclusion ultimately is no and never because I will never accept that. They have no need to come here and become involved into something they never willing signed up for or volunteered for and thus it will never happen through me. I even remain celibate completely sometime after I realize that's just how this world really is to me.
In other words, some of us like myself that feels this way, feels and think it's already bad enough that we ourselves have to go through all of this and because it wasn't our "idea" or "choice" to come here to begin with, and we can't change that. We can't somehow magically make it possible for our parents to never have met in the first place, etc. so that we never had to exist and come here to see, experience and know what this reality is like and realizing that the bad does outweigh the good, at least eventually.
Thus we don't want to subject somebody else new here to repeat this process all over again, for someone else to be set up for unhappiness, suffering and then have to die eventually also. They are fine for never having existed, for they have no need to exist and be involved into this reality and this kind of a world.
They might not have had the free will to be born into this world. But most are not unhappy that they were. I've had some really shitty things happen to me in life but I keep a positive perspective on things. And what doesn't kill me has made me stronger. I don't know about other people but I feel a great deal of accomplishment knowing what I've been through and that I can stand here today a strong woman that refuses to walk this life with fear of the unknown. I truly feel bad for you that you do have so much fear in your heart. But I also know you are capable of facing it and possibly able to give yourself a better experience with life. But that's your battle to conquer and I wish you the best.
I'm an anti-natalist at heart. I believe in the long run it's unfair to the new person added into this world since they cannot possibly give me the consent to create them and may end up just as unhappy or even more unhappy than I am. Since every life and existence comes bundled with suffering, pain, hardship, and an inevitable death ALL IN THE SAME PACKAGE and can't be changed in any form or way or returned. And I frequently hear people always speak of how life is "unfair", so how is it justified to enable and create more of this "unfairness" for someone new?
Even if I were to go back into trying to date, in which I had long given up, I'd only be limited to the dating pool of those that are also 100 percent certain that they don't ever want kids either, but even then, just because they have that one thing in common, it does not absolutely guarantee that we'll be "right" for each other.
And my age is actually older than what you see here in case you never clicked to view my profile
Home > Society & Politics > Questions > How come you don't want kids? How do you know that having children is not for you? (ChildFree or Anti-Natalist)?
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