Men have biological reasons why they don't cry as much.
You got some good reasons here. You haven't even pulled the "toxic masculinity" card. I'm going to be honest with you, just become an egalitarian.
Wild concept, you can support more than one movement.
If you are egalitarian, then why do you have to support feminism.
See my response above
I = stupid
"feminists pressured the FBI to make their definition of rape gender neutral and not something that only happens to women." no offense but that's horseshit. watch the video i posted on my comment from 6:30 and watch how feminists have changed rules to benefit women and not men. feminist only made gender neutral those rules that benefited women not the other way around
and this make come as a shock to you but men don't enjoy getting raped
1) Feminism is meant for protecting rights on women. I don't see why focusing on women's rights is wrong then. Next what, religion is wrong for focusing on God? School is wrong for focusing on education? The problem here is that, men think that trying to change things to benefit women automatically means that it will be a threat for men. It doesn't have to be that way.2) I know men don't enjoy rape. But this is what some MEN have told me themselves, that they would like it. Which is why I wrote 'some men' and also specified that if you have consent and are enjoying it it's no more rape it's just sex.So what's your issue?
"men think that trying to change things to benefit women automatically means that it will be a threat for men" that has precisely been the feminist approach throughout the years. they keep governments from funding programs that help women because they believe all the funding should go to women's programs because women have been victims so they need support but men don't need any support because they're oppressors. feminists believe if governments help men then that'll reduce the help that women receive. so what you're accusing men of, is exactly what feminist believe. just look up the number of women's shelters in US and compare it to the number of men's shelters. The duluth model is an example of the laws passed by feminists that automatically recognizes men as perpetrators. i think you should compare your own ideology with feminist ideology because if you think this is unfair then you can't be a feminist but if you agree with things like the duluth model then there's no chance you care about men and their well being
We're gonna ignore laws benefitting men 🙄 and focus on the fact that government somehow funding more for female victims is a bad thing 🙄
but there are no more laws that benefit men. all those laws are gender neutral now thanks to feminists. i'm sorry you didn't get a word of what i said.
Bro you live in Bangladesh. Why are you talking from the American perspective? Feminism can help women in Bangladesh but feminism in America has run it's course. And just to be clear, feminism only helps women and not men. That goes for America and Bangladesh. Feminism won't help men in Bangladesh in any shape or form because it's a patriarchal society. We have all the rights that a man can have. It's like a paradise for us here. Feminism only seeks to ruin society and thank god it hasn't infested in our country or else we would've been finished just like other 1st world countries.
@UI_Vegeta01 just wait buddy. it'll happen to your country to. because women are all getting these crazy ideas from America
@morrowlow Nah it won't happen. Muslim countries don't roll like that.
@UI_Vegeta01 i'm from a muslim country too. it's weird that we were discussing feminism in America but the reason that's important to me is because i can see the cultural changes happening in my country. i live in iran. and feminism and liberalism is becoming very popular here. seeing how that has ruined US, i don't want the same thing to happen to my country. i mean we already have a lot of the same problems that American men face but i don't want my country to be a hell hole for men like it is in so many other countries
Unfortunately much of the points you make involving definitions or institutional response is the result of feminist lobbying. Without a recognition of this and an apology you can't make progress.You don't praise an arsonist for putting out their own fire
"I'd never be in a relationship with an effeminate guy myself" Exactly this attidude is what defines feminism in the 21 century. The entire progressive agenda can engulf the world in the deepest most perverted barbarism as long as it doesn't affect me, my husband or my children. This individualist attitude is pathetic because you will be victim of the cannibalization sooner or later.
@morrowlow Then all we got to do is pray. Rest is out of our hands. And i hope Iran doesn’t go down that path because that’s the true definition of a nightmare. I was hoping that Muslim countries would tackle this feminism cancer well but what the fuck am I hearing about all this crap. We are fucked if we don’t do anything quick. And nice to meet you man. Are you a Muslim living in Iran throughout your life?
@UI_Vegeta01 yeah. i'm muslim and was born and raised here
nice to meet you too
Rape is still rape even if I end up getting pleasure from it. You still forced me into something I didn't want to do against my will. Men are harder to rape because we are stronger and larger but don't think for a moment that we are in full control over or body functions, we might still get hard even if we don't want it. With your kind of think it would be okay to rape women aslong as you give her a orgasm, how sick isn't that.
@esotericstory lol what's wrong? Am pretty sure you don't like a woman bodybuilder does it mean that you will say all female bodybuilders should be banned? No! You let them be. Live and let live. It doesn't justify cannibalism, what the heck. Stop making stupid implications. I won't date a non-Muslim either does it mean that I suddenly believe people don't have the right to have other Faiths? You possibly won't even approach a woman who wears niqab does it mean that you suddenly want all women to stop wearing that instead of believing that they can mind their own business while you do yours?
@UI_Vegeta01 Only because I'm in BD doesn't mean that I can't answer a question that's not very relevant to our culture.Also regarding Bangladesh, feminism has tremendously benefitted men here. Previously women were responsible for housework while men worked outside but now women take the load of BOTH office and household and men are already becoming useless vegetables not working very hard in workplace and chilling at home and hanging out with friends in the weekend with absolutely no desire to look after children. Fortunately very recently some guys are being a bit more willing to give time to their family but I can't count in how many families women have literally taken the charge of e v e r y t h i n g.
Nope you’re wrong. Nothing you said is true. You are just making shit up at this point. The only thing that’s true is that men in Bangladesh are avoiding marriage. I would know cause I am a man and I have a lot of guy friends. You don’t know what you are talking about. And no feminism didn’t help men in Bangladesh in any way. Sitting at home like a sloth and doing nothing while the wife is doing everything doesn’t really help a man. So as I said before, feminism doesn’t help men in any way. You keep your feminist beliefs and I will keep mine.
Pretty sure if I take advantage of an intoxicated man nothing would happen to me even if he reported it to police and I admitted to it. The law is sexist towards men.
@morrowlow but in iran women have to cover their hair
@UI_Vegeta01 sorry but women should have the same rights as men in bangladesh too.
@shinka1y234 Women should have the same rights as men? Men can get circumcised at birth without giving consent. So you want the same for women?
Women also can get circumcised at birth if their family want it. Persobally I dont want to do that to my future son if i get one although I am a muslim
@shinka1y234 Except the tiny little detail that its ILLEGAL to do it to women but LEGAL to do it to boys.
Dont know it. Where do you live? I think it is because of religious people. Muslims and jews do cricumcised little male kids. That is why here in the country I live, the law is not changed.
I think it should be allowed when the man want it but should not be done to lilttle kids without their consent
@shinka1y234 I live in Belgium. In Europe just like you. Science says male circumcision causes brain damage.
" I'd never be in a relationship with an effeminate guy myself" that's exactly the point right there though. Men discourage each other from acting feminine because we instinctively know it makes us less sexually desirable to women. Once a man turns feminised, the women around him instantly cross him off their list of potential sexual mates. So if he wants to find a mate without resorting to fucking dudes instead (or ultra-masculine women with short crop military haircuts and 30" biceps), then he has no choice but to drop the feminine act and get back to his masculine core. I do agree that men should be free to indulge their softer, more vulnerable side, and enjoy less "manly" pursuits like reading romance novels, writing poetry, or just having a good cry. In my mind, I see "vulnerability" and "being feminised" as two very different things. A man being vulnerable is still just as masculine, it's just that he can't always be that strong fearless badass 24/7, life takes a toll on everyone. Vulnerability at the right time and place has improved every relationship I've held with a woman. But I never let myself become feminised, I always operated within the "range of tolerance" for masculine behaviour/ values. Because I'm a heterosexual man, and so I want the women I sleep with to CARRY ON SLEEPING WITH ME. If I wanted them to leave me for some other guy, the first thing I'd do is start acting like a woman all the time. Harsh but true. Women prove this for themselves in the men they select as sexual partners. It's actually so accurate, that I've been able to predict in the past when a couple will break up, based on who's acting more masculine and who's acting more feminine over time. It's ridiculously precise, I didn't wanna believe it at first, but women kept proving their own preferences for masculine men.
@SomeGuyCalledTom The only women who like a feminine man are women who are manipulators and looking for a weak fragile victim to destroy. This is why men discourage each other from being feminine.
oh hey, I just realised this is the same comment I was replying to yesterday lol. Hope you don't mind my mini essays haha, I'm just very interested in this whole subject of masculine vs. feminine roles. Even if we disagree in a lot of ways, I'm sure you'd make an interesting person to sit down with and exchange ideas over a beer :)
@SomeGuyCalledTom can you define masculinity?
oh wait, no I'm thinking of another comment I was replying to yesterday. I think maybe you and I debated a little on another thread perhaps, @CubsterShura? Anyways...@shinka1y234 hat part of its current definition are you unclear on? Webster says: "[masculinity is] the set of qualities considered appropriate for or characteristic of men"
So the appearence has no influence on masculinity? It is just character that decide how masculine you are. Ok thanks hah😅
@shinka1y234 what? I'm giving you the literal dictionary definition. And you realise a "characteristic" can refer to physical traits as well as behavioural traits right? A cleft palate is a physical characteristic. "Strength in face of adversity" is a behavioural characteristic, and perhaps also a psychological characteristic (since all behaviour starts in the mind). These are really basic levels of definition, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.
@shinka1y234 Masculinity is defined by the male sex hormones like testosterone. This masculinizes the fetus during pregnancy. Les testosterone exposure will lead to a less masculine boy being born, in the worst case with a micro penis. Exposure during puberty masculinizes the male body and mind further. At the end, the body and mind should now be so masculinized getting a partner should be no big deal, sperm production should be healthy, sex drive too, the parents should have given the man enough life skills and social skills to find a partner and procreate.
@shinka1y234 that is the law but women in Iran break it on so many occasions and no one gives them any trouble for it. if you ask me women have too much freedom here. and they manipulate the rules like instead of covering their hair they just put a really small scarf on their heads which they take off in so many places like when they're driving a car
@morrowlow wasn't there a woman on trial in Iran recently for removing her hijab?
@Britantic yeah there have been a couple of them but they were politically opposing the regime. you can see women without their hijab in many public places in Iran. those women weren't arrested for just removing their hijab. they instead protested the whole islamic regime which is why they were arrested but all of them were treated very leniently and were let go after a short time. that's why i'm saying women have too much freedom here. they break the laws and still are free. imagine if a man had protested the regime. would he be free to go? that's why feminism in countries like mine would only make life more unfair for men. women have enough privileges as it is
@morrowlow then cover yourseld too
Sorry but in iran men have definetely more rights and you are complaining about women who taking their hijab off? So what. These rules are sexist and stupid
So protecting for their own rights is feminism? That is how it should be. Why do you get bothered by women who take their hijab off?
This is not feminism. This is about human rights. Men should protest then if they get treated bad instead of following the rules blindly and being afraid of the regime
@shinka1y234 You live in Europe now. Its time for you to get assimilated. Read lots of Nietzsche and listen to Richard Wagner or else go back.
Where? I am born here and have the citizenship ;)
@shinka1y234 You said you were a Muslim?
@shinka1y234 Islam is not a European religion so you are probably not from European ethncitiy.
@shinka1y234 "Men should protest then if they get treated bad instead of following the rules blindly and being afraid of the regime"exactly. that's why i'm against feminism because one of the reasons men are treated unfairly is because of feminist ideology which has leaked into our culture. the ideology which gives all the attention to women and ignores men. but to answer why it's wrong that these women oppose hijab and islam i should say these rules were accepted by the people of this country and a lot of people still support islam and if someone doesn't like that, they can move to another place. i'ts not okay for these people to try and impose their own lifestyle on other people. that's not freedom and women don't have such right to defend in the first place. i'm not bothered by the fact that women take off their hijab. someone brought it up and i just explained it to them. and the reason men do not defend themselves is because of the gynocentric line of thought that is instilled in men all over the world, not just iran, from an early age which teaches them that they should sacrifice their convenience and happiness for the sake of women. i'm against that kind of thinking and i'm against feminism which is the product of such thinking. feminism is just a cult for masochistic, privileged women who feel entitled to everyone and everything to feel better about themselves. it's natural that a woman who doesn't have anything special to do because the men in their lives do everything for them to feel worthless and incapable. feminism gives these women a reason to feel influential.
You mofos are flooding my notifications god dammit.
@morrowlow politic and religion should be seperated. You can live your religion for yourself but can't force religion on other people. And it is not that easy to move to another country. I thought islam is a friendly religion that does not force people to do something. Look at turkey. The number of atheists is increased rapidly since erdogan regimes who try to islamize the country. We know have 8 million atheists. So you can't force religion. And you say people whant it that way. If people in iran wants it that way, why so many women want to takes off the hijab? So these women are the part of the society and we see that this part of the society does not like islamic rules. I agree with you at some points but does not agree with forcing the religionon others
@shinka1y234 but then the other side is also forcing their lifestyle on religious people. you cannot separate politics from religion because religion is a set of ideas that religious people want to live by. even atheists have beliefs that govern their lives. so under no circumstance can conservative and liberal people live together without some conflict. it's either the liberals who impose their ideas on conservative people like in the US or it's the other way. and i don't want to live in a place where i'll be persecuted for my beliefs which has already happened to an extent in my country. Islam is friendly in the sense that you're not forced to accept it as your religion but you cannot publicly defy it either in an Islamic country
But islam dont force women to wear a hijab. It is their decisions. So it is not islamic. Nobody stop you practicising your religions. And how do others force their lifestyles on religious people? You know you are not different than others if you force your religion on others? That is not democracy, thst is brainwashing and manipulating
If you only focus on women's rights, you are ignorant. It's 2019!
I agree with you, I'm with equality not with feminism.
This man needs likes.
Marital rape, for example, was outlawed in 1991. Unless you’re from the future, you’re talking bollocks.
@victoriaxoxo That is a horrible thing but I think he was focusing on the fact that feminists think they're in the mid 20th century.
I don’t think most feminists think that rape is still legal and such. But feminism tries to focus on the social effect these laws had on some members of our society. So in a way, feminist has a retrospective focus, yes, but only in the sense that it is investigating the ripple effect these old rules had on society.
Actually I was thinking more on the side of gender equality, of which i am a supporter. I work in a company that pays women the same as men for the same job. I find on this point feminist groups are stuck in the dark ages. So tell me am I speaking bollocks because i answered the original question, or because im a man?
But feminism includes gender equality? As well as more covert issues such as sexual harassment. Laws on their own don’t guarantee to stop discrimination, since much of society functions on unspoken rules that are a direct result of culture. For example, just because your employer pays you the same as your female coworker doesn’t mean that he doesn’t also feel like he has a right to inappropriately touch her thigh because she is wearing a skirt, or a bit of make up, because in his head a woman is inviting physical contact just by putting make up on her face. Some men genuinely believe that something as simple as wearing a skirt is a clear signal that she is interested, some men also believe that women play hard to get and a ‘no’ is actually a ‘yes’. So where do you think this sort of a mix up eventually leads to? Sure, we can make laws to combat sexual harassment, but only so many cases will be caught in that net. With things like sexual harassment, it is difficult to prove, and often the perpetrator is out the door before you even realise what has happened. Feminism tries to tackle things like this by changing the opinions of the public. So people no longer deem it acceptable to sexually abuse women or blame women for being sexually abused.
@victoriaxoxo Yet, feminists thwart efforts to give abused males resources and housing.
@victoriaxoxo That woman should probably report that to corporate then, or try and find another job.
Ok, but do you see the problem? Why is the victim the one required to move away. People nowadays still treat sexual assault as a minor issue. Victim blaming is still very common. Sure, it is against the law. But when so many people don’t believe it to be a big deal, no real actions are taken and people suffer. Feminisms does campaign for men’s rights also. The idea is that men and women are different but equal (well that is one of the subtypes of feminism). Most feminists I know do think that there are major issues that need to be tackled in regards to men’s mental health. For example, things like toxic masculinity, which stems from social pressures on men to always put up with shit. Even things like women campaigning for diaper changing facilities to be removed from women’s toilets is beneficial to men. Many dads voiced their issue with all diaper changing cabins being inside women’s toilets. Literally so many issues that feminism aims to tackle automatically benefits men. Things like the man no longer needing to be the sole breadwinner, so less pressure is placed on his shoulders, is something feminism is interested in. It is almost like women are cashing in some of their traditional benefits they used to receive for just being female for a set of different rights which also benefit men.
Toxic masculinity doesn't exist, only ignorant people. I agree with your other points.
@victoriaxoxo But, for the first time, I can show someone their ignorance.
@victoriaxoxo No feminists are advocating shelters for abused men, and both the USA and Canada refuse to fund the creation of an organization to make them, even though 40% of abuse victims are MEN. Sure, feminism got rid of gender roles, but that would also benefit them as well, wouldn't it? This is the exact reason I asked this reason.
@victoriaxoxo The victim is needed to move away or seek power from a higher power because doing nothing is unproductive and will leave to repeated occurrence of this.
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I agree with your first part, I totally give you the credit for that one, but how we act is just in our nature. This is how I am, and how I want to be.
Cooking dosen't have to do with anything that claims equality or real equality for that matter, it's a survival skill for more than 10000 years no matter gender. hope you realize that.
I realize that, Crazy, but not everyone does apparently.
The mask you live in was pretty funny in that I basically disproves toxic masculinity. In an endeavor that set out to describe toxic masculinity, it inadvertently illustrated that feminist interpretation of men is ridiculous from the outset.
The narrow ideals of masculinity built the world you now live in.Traditional masculinity isn't harmful.What is harmful is feminists using it as a weapon to shame men
What about the men who use it to shame men? That’s ok apparently?
It helps men become subservant and submit beneath females nothing more
Why can’t women and men just stand beside each other?
@MzAsh Why dont you ask the female feudal rulers who have sent thousands of men into their deaths during wars?
@esotericstory hitler is a man too. So why do you bring the gender here
@Cocaolaaadict you sound like a wanna be aplha
Didn't you know that an alpha is a low status individual also a selfish insecure loser that has a need to control people to lift themselves and to be secure in difference to an omega 😉
@shinka1y234 I dont know what were talking about since my opinion has been deleted.
This boi spittin facts.
Also radical feminists work with many men to fight for economic justice. the victories they have accomplished, whether campaigning for progressive candidates that are doing great things for everyone struggling with health care, economic issues. housing, etc or fighting for specific policies that work for the majority of people, help men by default.
i hate feminists but i have to admit you lot make great entertainment when you lot spew this nonsense with a serious tone. paternity leave only benefits the mothers not the fathers who take the leave. and i don't care the FBI changed the definition of rape because the Duluth model still exists and it was created by feminists. and letting women in the army in combat roles has lowered the standards for enlisting soldiers which results in more burden on male soldiers. because now they can't rely on other competent male soldiers instead they're left with a bunch of little girls. if feminists really cared about men they would have addressed all those false rape accusers.
I wish that you hadn’t replied to this anonymously. You shared many well-thought/written statements while providing information regarding each. You seem well-versed, and it’s be great to pick your brain about such things with genuine, open, and forthcoming feedback. You get an up-vote from me. Feel free to send me a message if you’d like to share further. Thanks for your contribution.
I’m also curious to hear your thoughts upon why many females commented rather negatively, often in simplistic fashions lacking substance, upon feminism. Why is this, is this simply due to a knowledge gap (versus a genuine contrary perspective), or what? This is quite fascinating.
"Be more feminine so you don't kill yourself". Good message.
So because you have a shitty friend all nonfeminists are like this? No, the vast majority of people who aren't feminists (The majority of women btw) aren't like this however look at feminists the nice ones are the minority.
Well, sounds like your friend has a very misguided view on relationships, but I wouldn't attribute that to "not enough feminism in her life" (I'm paraphrasing based on inference ofc). That said, if what you just described is how you view feminism, then more power to you. Not all feminists would see it the same way, though. Personally it just sounds to me like you have an emotionally mature outlook on relationships, regardless of whether you identify as feminist or not. Emotional maturity is the constant in all healthy relationships, if you happen to be emotionally mature and also a feminist, then fine by me. But a feminist who is emotionally immature will often do a lot more damage than a non-feminist who's immature.But I am kinda splitting hairs a little, what you're doing is obviously working, and I applaud you for not just dumping all life's burdens onto your man's shoulders like some women often do. For most men this is enough in a partner, we'll love such women regardless of whether they hold up the feminist placards at local women's protests. But a woman who attends those protests and DOESN'T treat her man in this manner will be viewed with suspicion and even contempt.
Lmfao stop generalizing. 😂
@Ámayas_20 because you don’t consider yourself a feminist doesn’t mean that you don’t live by feminist principles.
@SomeGuyCalledTom perhaps not all aspects of the said behaviour stem from feminism, that is true. But I do sincerely believe that much of the reason why my friend acts the way she does stems from sexism. Sexism towards men that is. If she did ever care to study the rationale behind first and second wave feminism, she would understand that it emphasises equality between the sexes. That is not to say that someone can’t think of themselves as equal to the opposite sex without declaring themselves feminist. After all we live in a society where most people are to some extent money driven, but I doubt most would consider calling themselves capitalists. I do, however, claim that feminism, for me personally, has helped me understand and treat the opposite with more equality. Hence why can’t I proclaim that, in my opinion, the positive aspects of feminism are such and such?
@bubblezzzz this whole thread is based on generalisations. Didn’t you below comment that feminism nowadays is a bunch of men haters? Isn’t that generalising feminists, eh?
That's a fair analysis, and the version of feminism you speak of (1st/2nd wave as you put it) is the version I can really get behind. I also realise that people can live according to principles fought for and won by previous generations of feminists. I do still feel like much of 3rd/ 4th wave feminism has strayed from those ideals, even though it sometimes pays lip service to "equality". But those founding principles of gender equality, I can 100% get behind, and they are still needed in many parts of the world. In many African countries FGM is still used and encouraged, for instance. And in other places, women can be executed for aborting a pregnancy from rape, or "honour killed" by her own parents for the "crime" of being raped. Truly abhorrent shit. Needs sorting out. Whether the people sorting it out call themselves "feminists" or not doesn't really matter, as you point out. Gender equality should be a basic human right. Just some of the more ideologically-driven 4th wave feminists are fighting over shit like "microaggressions" and "manspreading", because gender equality already was achieved in their country, and so their wheels are kinda spinning, and they want a new "enemy" to paint a target on to give them a sense of purpose. If more post-modern feminists stopped attacking men and started getting back to those grassroots ideals of fighting for the truly disempowered... then more men would give feminism more serious treatment and consideration.All said and done though, I'm watching all this as an observer. Feminazis and alt-right trolls yelling over each other on twitter and whatnot is kinda just funny to watch at this point. It's just that sometimes, all that noise spills over and affects ordinary working people in a negative way.
And just to clarify, I think it's great you got positive takeaways from feminism that helpd you relate better with men. Whichever feminists you've been listening to must have their heads on pretty straight.Honestly, I do kinda wonder if "feminism" even has meaning as a term, since in many ways feminism is so fractured today. For some it is a political ideology, for others a set of principles for equal treatment, for others it's an excuse to hate on men, for others it's a reason to make peace with men. There's no one "right" version of feminism, just as "capitalism" as a term doesn't say much about how a country's financial system is actually structured in practical terms. A capitalist society with corporate tax loopholes and a welfare state is very different than a purely market-led society with zero hand-outs and "do or die" mentality.
@SomeGuyCalledTom honestly, feminism that preaches things like castration or segregation is nothing but sexism dressed up as feminism. Feminism is definitely needed in many parts of the world. And I still believe that even in the West there is still fighting to be done. Stereotypes and gender roles are still pushed onto both men and women. That is not to say that people can’t choose to partake in traditional relationships and follow stereotypical career paths but it would be pleasant if they were allowed to start from scratch without any presumptions about one gender being predisposed at doing better in certain fields. I very much agree with what you said about feminism being very stratified. I have myself witnessed feminists argue over the right ‘type’ of feminism, just the way people argue about what capitalism is or should be. But as you had mentioned previously, feminism for me had a transformative effect, helping me relate to the opposite sex.
@victoriaxoxo I said a bunch of men haters, I didn't say all.
@bubblezzzz exactly, so apply that logic to my replies as well please.
yeah, makes sense, @victoriaxoxo. I generally take a 'functional' stance on big trends like feminism. If it serves a useful function with a net positive benefit for the intended recipients, and doesn't take away anyone else's rights or freedoms, then I support it-- or at least, I don't oppose it actively. If it serves a negative or destructive or manipulative function, then I call it what it is-- "bollocks" lol. "Feminism" can go either way, given how many "versions" of it exist.
For what reason do you call yourself a feminist, rather than an egalitarian?
@victoriaxoxo I don't I live by egalitarian principles, feminism is toxic.
Because I don’t think one excludes the other. They stem from the same idea. In fact, earlier forms of feminist are literally = egalitarianism. And I’m not ashamed from identifying with feminism because a couple of a**holes made it out to be something else. In fact, sometimes, I use it as a way to judge character. When I tell someone that I’m a feminist, without going into the buts and ifs, their facial expressions will usually tell me how much they studied feminism, and how easily they are moved by tabloids. And this I can use to estimate other characteristics.
You can identify however you want but it's clear you're the one with no idea what you're on about.
@Ámayas_20 I’m sorry but are you just talking to yourself? I wasn’t even replying to you?
I know lmao other people can also point out your stupidity.
@Ámayas_20 PREACH SIS
@Ámayas_20 ahh what a well developed argument! So much I can take away from it!
Not much anyone can really say to you anyway hun.
Kill all men , men need to be taught not to rape, too many men in high positions, changing words like fireman , policeman, chairman, manpower and inventing made up ones like womyn , herstory. Saying that men have no right to an opinion about abortion.Proposing a 90% reduction in male population.Julie bindel proposing that men be put into concentration camps , saying " when they start behaving like humans, maybe we'll look at you".Sarah Silverman saying " sorry, it's a boy" to a pregnant woman in a phone service ad.Gillettes ad about men. Men this , men that.This isn't helping men. It's blatant hatred of them
The toxic masculinity thing isn't helping men at all.You don't help people by insulting the very fibers of their beings.You may think toxic masculinity and masculinity are different but it doesn't feel that way for men.Toxic behaviours are present in all people and masculinity is not to blame.If it was really to help men it would be called toxic behaviours not toxic masculinity as toxic masculinity feels like an attack on men to us.
Men dont want to cry or be gay nor do they get metood wtf?
1. Meh, I doubt men some feminists to tell us we can show emotions; how much a man shows emotion is dictated largely by temperament, not by feminist's encouragement. Some men are quite sensitive and emotionally attuned by their nature (I consider myself somewhat like this although can also be very logical and stoic, it shifts from day to day really). Other men are very much the strong silent type, and no feminist is gonna convince them to be any other way. That would be like a man telling a woman "stop being so emotional!", only feminists have reversed it. If women are allowed to be emotional and dramatic, then men are allowed to be logical and stoic.
2. If there are feminists out there campaigning for this, then I'm glad. But the MeToo movement overall is becoming increasingly anti-male. I don't even blame the garden variety feminist, who likely believes she's just helping victims gain a voice. But there are some sociopathic women out there who are exploiting the power of Metoo to advance their careers... by destroying that of a man's.
3. I agree with this, and if feminists are trying to change those stigmas, then I support them in that line of effort.
4. Sorry, I'm confused as to what you're saying here. Do you mean to say that feminists are trying to change the court system so it DOESN'T favour women automatically? Or are you saying that single mother SHOULD be given preference over the fathers?
5. I agree that a lot of abuse against men isn't reported or convicted or even admissible in court. But I don't see any evidence that some ephemeral concept like "toxic masculinity" is to blame. This is just shifting the blame back onto men; it's saying that there's a "wrong version of masculinity" at the root of all men's issues. Why not look at how women can contribute to those issues? Why not look at the inherent corruption of a legal system that "protects the female" above all else-- BECAUSE FEMINISTS SPECIFICALLY CAMPAIGNED FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF SUCH A LEGAL PRECEDENT?
Actually its women not men who call the men weak! women want men to be supermen hence the common saying "I like alpha males" because women don't like weak men they actually want hard emotionless men and when a man shows sadness pain and tears he's seen as weak and she loses all respect for him
I’m gonna put it one last time there is toxic masculinity and also let me add it no it did not start with woman that historically is innaccurate woman never held power like that to actually control gender roles and gender roles started after war. Also I wouldn’t that since I know most woman do want their man to show emotions why would they not? Also back to the men getting raped and it being a toxic masculinity issue yes it is men applaud little boys for getting raped or molested and last time I checked men seem to be the only gender proud to have slept with a grown woman at 13 even though it’s definitely rape. Look at the little boy who fucking married and got his teacher pregnant like no one though this shit was wrong and it was because he’s a boy only feminist and woman were trying to call it out while men said men are different and we like it blah blah blah
Also that’s NOT true the only way a female is protected in court is mothers in courts which I agreed with
Also the metoo movement is not anti male is anti toxic masculinity you as a man shouldn’t have problem if you respect woman and don’t bother them just because you think their attractive. There’s a time and place for that and also if most rape cases are reported by woman and done by men than I don't know what to tell you that’s just the way things are. Also I don’t think there’s just feminist is so who and how exactly would that work?
That’s why I think men should stop thinking their just supposed to naturally want sex no matter what and telling each other that and also report things when it happens
Well that's true a lot of guys do that but that isn't masculinity its just being a degenerate those men aren't masculine don't confuse those men with masculinity because they sure as hell aren't
If we were to report "these things" we would be laughed at and considered worthless and no woman would date us because we are seen as less of a man
But the thing is men who do it tend to use the I’m just a man excuse and use that to pretty much do things like that and overall that line of it’s pretty much in a mans nature is what I mean there’s nothing wrong with masculinity at all but just things like that, that can be associated with masculinity due to the it’s man nature line and such
Except its not a mans nature they are just twisting and contorting it its a mans nature to want sex that's true but not being fucked by a grown woman when their still a kid they say that because it amuses their fantasy saying its toxic masculinity is to characterize them as normal men there's a saying don't generalize a whole gender based on the actions of a few these aren't your a typical men just a few idiotic individuals
This was the norm though and tbh I don't know how far ahead we are from that but if you want I can take a poll on here? i have a strong feeling a lot of men still genuinely think like this, I know there’s good men but honestly majority would think like that and you would seen the nice men get called gay or something for speaking. Also this was a whole internet sensation lol I think you can still look up the video look up this one isn’t it but if similar case https://youtu.be/k2xZlng0f34 like look through these comments a lot of people are blaming the husband and saying he didn’t give her enough sex and someone said he later died from high fives from all his buddies just pretty foul shit honestly
Also that’s recent so it’s not too bad but now let me show you something from a few years back
Before we got the conversation going
https://youtu.be/x3lqA20-X7E look at this bs now 🤮 lol I swear this was really majority men’s mentality before feminism started getting more noticed by society
it kinda just seems like your argument boils down to "men are the source of all of men's problems", and yet in the same beat you support the legal system favouring single mothers over the fathers, just because of their gender, that's literally an anti-male position to hold. So I still don't see how any of this connects with "feminism benefiting men".
You’re trying to put two different arguments together and treat them like their the same argument and that the problem we have here.
Also one clearly referred to toxic masculinity and one clearly did not
My argument is exactly as I've laid it out. If anything, you're the one who's brought hebephile schoolteachers and male rapists into the discussion, as if those issues are somehow intrinsic to "feminism helping men". So I'm not sure where you and I are failing to find common ground, as we seem to be having two different conversations at this point.
Its amusing an easy to have a laugh about it when your hearing it and seeing it on the internet but when it comes to real life you'll take it more seriously and go for it create the poll when you see things on the internet its just funny I think every boy has fantasized about getting it on with his teacher your young full of testosterone and she's a fully developed woman your bound to find it attractive until you actually get your wish your now in a room with her and she's naked and a lot bigger than you and suddenly you start realizing this isn't fantast anymore this is actually happening and you start asking yourself do I really actually want this? So you can laugh about it when its a fantasy but when it comes down to it in real life peoples reactions will be different because their taking it seriously now
@SomeGuyCalledTom I’m not gonna sit here and waste time trying that hereOh well Tom guess feminism doesn’t help men 🤷🏼♀️ And @cocalaadict yes sure we all have fantasies of that one good looking teacher when we’re young but normalizing a teacher taking advantage of a child is what’s foul and yes when it becomes reality that’s different and it’s not this little cute kid fantasy it’s actually a very disgusting and foul situation in real an adult taking advantage is what’s really going on
That hard here *
Also cocalaadict I’m going to conduct the poll because I’m curious as well to what would even be the answer
Yeah I agree with you 100% it is pretty sick but my point here is your saying the people agreeing with it are a result in toxic masculinity when I disagree its just a few people who don't represent the whole I don't believe in toxic masculinity there's just decent people and non decent people because toxic masculinity isn't part of masculinity its just individuals
@RoxiFromTheDark "I know most woman do want their man to show emotions why would they not?"Why are you arguing with men's lived experiences? Us men know what its like to be men, you need to listen to us and accept our stories. I've never met one woman who wanted me to open up and be emotional. In fact a few times i did even just a little bit and women immediately put me down and disrespected me. That is why i would never cry or talk about my problems to a woman ever again. I've also had other dudes gfs come try to hook up with me after they saw their boyfriend cry. This is all fact. Other men are telling you similar things. This is us opening up ever so slightly about our problems. Prove all women aren't the same and empathize with us and admit this is a problem and caused by women or get defensive and prove women do jump on a man's case whenever we try to open up. Now is your chance to walk the talk and back up what you are saying.
#MeToo is an ideal "feminist movement". it's waiting for someone else to make the first move, then herd mentality. it's basically saying "I can't do it myself".
@cocalaaddict yes but it comes historically from gender roles created after the war and woman were not in power but I do agree either ways woman do enforce it and it is wrong
@bamesjond I can sympathize with you and everything but the same could be argued woman complain about men not being emotionally open and we know we’ve all heard this before but regardless this came from gender roles the idea that a man should be emotional started somewhere and was enforced by everyone but it’s wrong
@jSG4 I have no idea what you’re talking about
Like I said its just some individuals it dosent matter who started what when and that's assuming your information is even correct those individuals aren't part of masculinity plus I see far more women putting down men rather then men putting down men some do but its mostly women they call them beta males which essentially means your worthless because all women are into strong men what they like to call alpha males so no actually I think its women putting down men not men so much putting down men
"the idea that a man should be emotional started somewhere and was enforced by everyone but it’s wrong" you see this is what I mean
It actually does matter and assuming it’s even correct? Look up history where gender roles come from and no woman did not hold power and I would have to disagree with that I see guys put down guys too especially in groups of friends calling each other fathers for not wanting whatever is seen as manly in the moment and guys are also more physically violent with each other because men have dominance issues and okay I agree with woman still saying stuff to but where do you think woman learn it from to start, men we figure out quickly men do not like being seen as “weak”,
The guys in this thread are 100% correct, please understand, this is our daily reality. We would LOVE to be all vulnerable and mushy with our women. But when we do, they lose respect for us and potentially even cuckold/ cheat on us/ start inviting sexual opportunities from other men. You wanna know why men are strong and stoic and don't show weakness around women? Because WOMEN PUNISH THAT WEAKNESS-- even if they also complain about "men not opening up" to their girlfriends. Yes this is a generalisation, I have met women who actually value more sensitive traits in a man. But showing weakness to a woman almost never benefits a man in the long run, and he almost always comes to regret it. You can deflect all you like by saying its coz of "toxic masculinity", but fact is, women know instinctively that they wield immense power as the decider of who gets to mate with her, and who doesn't. We also know that women like strong alpha male providers. So it's not so hard to conceive of an evolutionary adaptation strategy... in which women selectively punish male weakness to ultimately weed it out from the 'tribe' over generations. I doubt women do it consciously, hence they say in public "I want a sweet nice sensitive man who tells me all his insecurities and fears". Because that's what a "normal, nice" member of society is supposed to say. But their responses to male vulnerability, for the most part, do not support what they say in public. Stoicism is a male reproductive strategy in response to women's tendency to punish deviation from the "strong, stoic" ideal. Women reap what they sow every time they punish male vulnerability, and then wander why men stop opening up altogether.
Sigh arguing with you is pointless even with the evidence sitting in front of your face your still denying it and insisting men are bad and quite frankly I'm tired of talking to a wall good day
Okay but it’s factual gender roles came from men like there’s not way around that of course there’s an affect to that
What do you even mean "gender roles came from men"? Human behaviour didn't just emerge from a vaccum in the mid-20th century you know. And frankly, the post-WWII period in Europe saw more peace and prosperity for men AND women than was ever known in any other time (well, until the Vietnam war, I suppose..). And you know why we were able to enjoy all that peace and prosperity? Because MEN fought and died in the millions so that *actual* tyranny could never take over their respective home countries, and those of their neighbors. You could try being grateful to what men did in the 20th century, every freedom you enjoy today can be directly attributed to their sacrifices. Also, the fact you ignored all my points about evolutionary predictors of male/ female behaviour differences... and are still pushing this "men invented gender roles" theory... tells me you have a very narrow interpretation of history. Those feminist bloggers who harp on about "1950s gender stereotypes" as if they're the birthplace of patriarchal tyranny... are focusing on a drop in an ocean. A century's worth of societal change and supposed gender type-casting... is nothing compared to the billions of years in which the human organism-- and its genetic ancestors-- grew and adapted to become what it is today. /ctd.
Gender differences exist because WE exist. The human organism replicates itself by mating with an opposite-gender version of itself. This has been so since the dawn of man. So guess what-- those with XX chromosomes develop behavioural patterns that help them optimally reproduce with those carrying XY chromosomes, and vice versa. These days, we understand those behavioural differences through the lens of "femininity" and "masculinity". These distinctions help us to understand ourselves, and our place with the social world we inhabit. But to say that all this is null and void, and that men just "invented" these behaviours in the 20th century, and demanded that women conform to them, is absurd. It's just absurd. I'm sorry, there's no other word for it. Sure, the 1950s had some cringey adverts for ironing boards and washing detergent, and women had to campaign for the vote, and didn't have full equality in the workplace at the time. But there are biological constants running through human behaviour, and social engineering can only supplant them temporarily, it cannot scrub them out entirely. Women will act as women feel compelled to act, as will men-- just as it's always been, and always will be. There's no need to attribute this to some widespread act of patriarchal social engineering.
P. S. To any person downvoting me, show me at least 5 examples where modernism feminism produced a positive outcome for a man. Because the random, odd show of kindness by one woman or man who define themselves as a "feminist" is probably not a big enough sample size to represent "feminism" properly, especially since feminists are increasingly-vocal minority in the "we need diversity because of inclusion" crowd, where diversity is desired, not of different minds and interests and skin color is just a happy coincidence, but because it means "we get more people who don't look stereotypically [insert normative race or gender here, usually white and male]". There's nothing wrong with diversity, but diversity for its own sake is appeal to equal result, not equal opportunity.
So you are an equalist?
No idea what that is. Im person who was taught right and wrong.
Literally an egalitarian.
And also, "toxic masculinity" doesn't exist. It is simply in our nature.
And also, men's nature is to not express their feelings as much.
I hate to break it to you, but "toxic masculinity" is only a tool so feminists can say they are "helping" us.
Well “your nature” is whats killing you. Telling guys to “suck it up” and “man up” instead of trying to help them emotionally is whats the problem
That's not the problem at all. Women stabbing us in the back after we've provided for them is what causes men to kill themselves. If women weren't so overly critical of men we wouldn't have the pressure on our shoulders to make absolutely no mistake, no hesitation, and never lapse in our better judgement in front of our woman, should she think we are inferior and as a result, cheat on us with a more worthy man.
Sorry but feminism is a load of crap that's just designed to ruin how things naturally work and make everyone's lives miserable with the same stone. No doubt it was created by women who wanted to watch the world burn.
@sunchips how do things 'naturally work'? what does mean?
The psychology behind being a man and women. Feminism pits men against their own nature that not only creates dissonance inside us but also pussifies us. And in doing so, it jepordizes the nature of women, because women are not psychologically attracted to pussy men.
I never said to suck it up, if you have a problem like that, go see a therapist.
@sunchips I'm a psychology student and a feminist and you are just wrong. I would explain to you how you are wrong but you don't seem to be the open minded type. Your belief about what toxic masculinity is and what feminism is seems to be set in stone
I am also a psychology student, although it has been a while. I come to conclusions based on facts and I pursue plausable outcomes. I have field research to back up my claims. Although I am interested in why you believe I am wrong. Tell me just for the sake of proving to me that you know what you are talking about. Even if we disagree, I can't help but respect an intellectual. So please, enlighten me.
Not realizing that claiming feminism is about quality only proves inequality. I'd care to elaborate. So let me ask you what's the male counter part of feminism? and what's the counterpart of equality? If you can give me that answer then that will only prove superiority. Ignoring the fact that there is a middle ground to it. You're not saying feminism is equality. You're just saying that our gender is superior and the rightful ones and of course they think it's fair for whatever bias reasons.
I fail to see how the first sentence applies. The next bit also confuses me. If meninism is the opposite of feminism, and inequality is the opposite of equality, I fail to see how knowing those answers proves superiority to you. And superiority to what? Are you saying I'm superior for knowing the answer? Or that the answers together equal superiority? I fail to see the correlation. Please explain your logic. I never said females were superior. I said they were genetically inclined to act a certain way, as men are their own. As for anything after "the rightful ones.." I can't make it out. It's gibberish.
@sunchips I'm happy to talk to you but I prefer to do it in private messages. getting into it on a public post gets messy
Do it. I wanna talk for real. We need to establish what we define feminism as. This will avoid senseless babblings and assumptions by hot headed fools such as the one above.
We're at a loss. I can't send private messages.
Nice attempt of private messaging there. It's just like the clan of brainwashing making people ignorant about the public in society. By the way why not choose to speak out in public and see how many agrees with you?
Y'all are arguing that her personal interpretation is incorrect because it doesn't line up with the popular views of feminism. It doesn't have to, though, if it's just how she puts a name to her views on gender.
That isn't feminism though. That is just simple equality.
Jesus. I go to study and this is what i come to find 😂Look idc what you guys say, but if I want to say im a feminist than I say that. I believe that each gender should be able to do things at the other gender can. If a women wants to work or be a housewife than go ahead. If a man wants to be a house dad or work than ok. Either way we should try to help one another rather than tear eachother down
@sunchips how come? what settings do I or you need to change so we can PM.
by the way Aiko_E_Lara, I don't want to the feminist having to argue with 3 non/anti feminists at the same time and i frankly don't care to hear the opinions of people whining "feminism is cancer! feminism is misandry!" I've already tried having a discussion with you about feminism and to honest, you were a complete asshole. You didn't listen to me, you would repeatedly ask the same question as if i never answered it, even though i did and u just didn't like my answer. Having a one-on-one discussion with someone shouldn't be the fucking nightmare it was with you. you were completely disrespectful and irrational while I tried my best to be nice and comprehensive
@Staiby "i frankly don't care to hear the opinions of people whining "feminism is cancer! feminism is misandry!" <--- Just like being comfortable with their own ignorance? I'd say go ahead and not care. We already know what that means. And ironically speaking coming from a movement who screams "men are rapists and misogynistic pigs" who invents the word mansplaining by womansplaining it to everyone.
@Aiko_E_Lara who screams that? you can't just attribute those quotes to a whole movement when that movement is made up of individuals with their own ideas, their own forms of feminism and identify with different schools of feminism, schools that contradict each other so it's impossible to identify with all of them. that's why I blocked you because u're so ignorant and uninformed
@Staiby You asked who? It doesn't take a genius. It's so called feminists who do that. And yeah calling me ignorant as an excuse to block is really lame by the way. Like trying to dismiss argument by calling me ignorant when I literally presented something you were in denial about. And yes they're feminists. They claimed to be feminists. As the history shown that women started feminism because they feel "oppressed" is just like how those feminists feel. You like "I'm so oppressed because I'm cat called" Oh yeah so oppressed because men don't have any problems. I can already hear you saying "those aren't feminists" yet the history of it still stands. Actively fighting for their rights which you think it's applicable these days?
@Staiby And that something I shown is what common people have seen. Not something from the very back of google where people can barely reach. Just because many people agreed, doesn't mean it's fact? Is that your justification? If so, what makes you say you're being truthful? Because it says so in your book? Puhlese this isn't all about your book. If that's what you're saying then everyone is wrong and you don't realize how that make you sound.
@Staiby I'm so ignorant and uninformed just like billions of people on this planet. Of course because we're living in a real world. Where's your world?
@Aiko_E_Lara i asked you for the names of people who have said what you claim feminists have said. I asked you to put names to those quotes instead of just unnamed anonymous sources. and you have failed to do that. not just failed but you are probably avoiding doing it because you can't name a specific person who has said "men are pigs" etc.I also blocked you because you go on a bullshit-rampage. just like you have just done know. assuming that I would use a no true Scotsman fallacy when I wouldn't. I openly disagree with other feminists but I wouldn't ever tell someone they're not a REAL feminist. And yeah men have their own unique problems and suffer similar issues as women do. I'm aware and I'm still a feminist. Not despite men's problems but partly because of men's problems. here's a story about a man who is an ex men's rights activist and now a feminist. He still cares about the same problems that affect men but he realized that feminism had everything he needed. narratively.com/.../and what fucking book are you talking about? u see. you go on a bullshit-rampage. this is why i gave up on talking to you
@Staiby Lol that source? He's a man's rights activists however we're an anti feminist because we are not getting brainwashed like him. Oh and by the way an angry men's rights activists is just like feminism. Both gendered counterparts. And for your lists of those who buzzfeed feminists who screams "men are misogynistic" Well here they are https://www.buzzfeed.com/tag/feminism You can see their names there and here's their video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuRTS9oFGwc&t=72s Ofcourse they're not named in there but there are still lists of feminists from buzzfeed I gave which has been destroyed by popular youtubers like Dr. Shaym https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuRTS9oFGwc&t=72s who also got support in Patreon https://www.patreon.com/DrShaym and also the ever popular Ben Shapiro who have been destroying that movement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtsFHiaAuwM Go skip at 0:47. "what fucking book are you talking about?" <-- The one you're talking about. And of course you don't remember it.
I mean here's the list https://www.buzzfeed.com/tag/feminism I copy pasted that video twice,
I mean you can't see their names in the video but the fact that you can see them and hear what they're talking about is not anonymous. So yeah there are many feminists from buzzfeed there and they're a few of those in the list.
@Staiby And by the way I thought you were done a long time ago. You don't wanna deal with 3 anti feminists you say? Because you're about to deal with thousands of them.
@Aiko_E_Lara Ben Shapiro is not someone to take seriously...i watched 2 minutes of the first video and omg ffs that guy is an idiot. i dont know where to start. he says "buzzfeed is demonizing men" and the woman specifics that's she is talking about 'catcallers'. one woman talks about a construction worker commenting rudely on her tits and his response was "why do u care about what some low life thinks about u"... wtf he is such an idiot. she doesn't care what he thinks about her, she cares that she was cat called and wishes he didn't catcalled her. I've been catcalled about my tits and i dont care what they think about me. i care that it happened because it made me feel violated that someone thought they could make such an intimate comment about my breasts. It made me feel dirty. I doubt you'll ever be catcalled so you won't understand what it feels like. maybe you should listen to the people who have been catcalled when they tell you what it is like and u know u make very little fucking sense. what fucking book are u fucking talking about? U're right. i should stop talking to u. i don't know why i bothered to talk to u. u're a pain in the ass
@Staiby See? That proves it. We're all a pain in the ass. And we're all stupid. Just better not exist if that's the case. Like yes that's how feminists see the world. I mean according to you, saying hi is a catfish. Lol how oppressed. Here's the original video for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_rgz7RX-WE&t=2s And tell me what threads you see
@Staiby Oh he's talking about "women" and that got you triggered right? This one is for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS46dD7W0yY&t=32s Also to be specific, skip at 0:28
@Staiby Well guess what? I got I got cat called by my female classmates because my dick is showing and I don't care. Because I'm not a snowflake like you.
@Aiko_E_Lara you misconstrue what i say so severely you don't realize how ridiculous you are being. you tell me im getting triggered? u're the one who is getting triggered just because i called u a pain in the ass, making it a gender thing? who is "we"? u make no friggin sense.
@Staiby And you don't realize how ignorant you are. This is like clock work really. You called me a pain in the ass just because I claimed something *Shrugs* So I'm a pain in the ass? Jeez thanks. truth hurts by the way and you're just proved me right
@Aiko_E_Lara prove u right? what is even your point
@Staiby wow this is still going. I refer back to what I already wrote as my whole argument for this long thread
@OfDeath Well don't worry. We're not the only ones she's against at. She's against reality.
@Aiko_E_Lara I won't lol
@OfDeath my response to what you said is: equality is a feminist goal. equality is a component in feminist ideology and no single ideology or movement owns the concept of equality. black lives matter has equality as a component in the movement. egalitarianism has the component of equality.
@Staiby With all the propaganda just like saying MGTOW's goal is equality because of how much men is oppressed and feminists be hating. The hypocrisy is real.
@Aiko_E_Lara it's not like that. it's not the same.
@Staiby Oh really? Do you think it would automatically be different just because they said so when they obviously have the same principles and mechanics? In that case "feminism is about equality" <-- My response to that is "it's not like that. it's not the same."
@Aiko_E_Lara how it is "obvious"?
@Staiby And how is it different? Or how is it not obvious? They both fight for "equality" PFF. You know like feminsts hating on men like in the video I presented? Yeah MGTOWs do those on women. Spreading their propaganda about women being gold diggers or some sort.
@Aiko_E_Lara i watched 2 minutes of the first vid and couldn't stand it anymore because the youtuber makes the dumbest arguments. but all i saw was women complaining about being catcalled. the focus was on cat callers and not ALLLLL men.
@Staiby And MGTWO "just" complaining about gold diggers and sluts right? Well sure they're complaining about cat calls but they just explained what catcalling is and according to them, It's saying "Hi" "Don't wear a demin jacket" and even compliments are cat calls now. Oh only if a guy does it he debunked it right there. And I still like how you're trying to dismiss arguments by calling everyone dumb. As it didn't work before, what makes you think it'l still work now?
@Staiby In other words they're talking about cat callers but explains what men do normally. And look at the original video again and comeback to me after you see the votes ratio.
@Staiby And what about women who cat calls? That's something they never even bothered doing. And I thought it's about equality. Like the asker's question "How does feminism help men?" <-- All I can say is they think cherry picking is their way to help men.
@Aiko_E_Lara i specified previously what was wrong and dumb about his arguments.You make a very irrelevent comparison between feminist and MGTOW. they both 'complain' about stuff... really? best u got?You can say hi in a sleazy way, getting up someone for the way they dress as you walk past them is harassment. i got told off very rudely to dye my hair while walking past that person. Noun. catcall (plural catcalls) A shout or whistle expressing dislike, especially from a crowd or audience; a jeer, a boo. A shout, whistle, or comment of a sexual nature, usually made toward women. (historical) A whistle blown by a theatre-goer to express disapproval.
"And what about women who cat calls?" what about them?
@Staiby Oh now I'm irrelevant? And ofcourse you don't think you're irrelevant for what ever reason. You're comparing equality to feminism. How could a gendered label be equality? Something that is gendered have their own counterpart to it FYI that is why MGTOW is a male version of feminism because? FYI they like to talk about men's suicide rate, men being told to man up, men losing the child custody, the double standards and so on like claiming men are so oppressed that they want "equality" just like what feminists do. So MGTOW claims their movement is equality. And yes that's the best I got and it doesn't take a genius to understand that. "You can say hi in a sleazy way, getting up someone for the way they dress as you walk past them is harassment. i got told off very rudely to dye my hair while walking past that person." <-- As if women don't do that. Well they do but do we even care? Like what I said we're not snowflakes like them because it's a rights to do that. So what if a man says hi in "sleazy way"? Oh no that hurts your feelings and what are you gonna do? Kill him just for saying hi? It's just like an instinct of shooting someone just because someone said "fuck you" when you can just not care and not be a snowflake.
@Staiby And you explained what cat calling is according to the dictionary. They explained cat calling according to them.
So what if he wasn't being "sleazy" at all but according to your feelings, he is? Accuse him of sexual harassment and have his life ruined? I thought this is equality.
@Aiko_E_Lara bias against men in court during custody battles is a myth
@Staiby In your opinion. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_are_wonderful_effect www.huffpost.com/.../men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742 Just looking for something at my last respond to disagree at?
This is a video. It wouldn't be any different if this is in a written form.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOP793671p0
@Aiko_E_Lara men's suicide. yeah men make up 80% of all suicide victims while women make up the majority of suicide attempts and experience more suicidal tendencies then men. Men use more lethal methods (gun shot to the head and jumping off of bridges) while women use less lethal methods like overdosing on pills. If you want to actually do something to fix the issue instead of whinging and bitching about women and feminism all day, you could advocate for gun restrictions because gun restrictions have been shown to lower suicide by gun rates
@Staiby "women make up the majority of suicide attempts" <-- to see if who really cares. Actually men does that too but does society care? I mean men are stronger and emotionless and not to mention a lot of women likes strong men. The article "women are wonderful effect" still stands.
@Staiby Whining about women? No. I'm whining about feminists whining about men's privilege. I'm an anti feminist not an anti women. There's a big difference before you start strawmanning
@Aiko_E_Lara it should be called "women are wonderful WHEN effect".
lol u admit you whine. good. because u are a whiner
@Staiby Then go make that article if you wish. He used that article at the end of that video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO9nUBazWEg&t=181s Now I challenge you to spot someone who tried to disagree with him
@Aiko_E_Lara it's already in wiki's criticism section
@Staiby And how many people criticized? 9? 10? 100? over 18k people
@Staiby And by the way sure and I do it with logic too. Unlike feminists who don't.
@Aiko_E_Lara lol you think you r logical. you. are. deluded.
@Staiby by the way I'm just sticking by your rule because according to you, presenting something is "whining". Yeah sure I only to it the right way.
@Staiby I don't think. I know. And by the way what happened to your logic? All you're doing right now is just saying things as and hope it'l become true like that's how the world works, Pff
@Aiko_E_Lara thats what uve been doing the entire time. saying things u want to be true and present weak ass evidence if u could even call it evidence.
@Staiby Or that's what "WE" have been doing the entire time. Like what you said all of my claims are stupid? Again sure it is stupid according to you. We're all stupid according to you. Hey at least what we do is so much better than just saying shit just because we don't like what they're saying or doing shit just because we don't like human rights.
@Staiby So you're gonna be in denial with all those people who are actually people making threads and supporting Shaym. Sure those people who voted are "weak ass people" Only those who down voted his videos are the rightful ones. You surly don't know what number's game is
@Staiby And what about your evidence tho? Ohhhhh your claims only matters lol. Your book
So what happened to that"it should be called "women are wonderful WHEN effect".""it's already in wiki's criticism section"?Are those really your claims? Lets be real. You're not a goddess who makes things true by only saying it. And you're calling our evidence "weak ass" PFF.
@Staiby And lastly, you said you were done talking a along time ago because of those 3 anti feminists. That just proves you don't know what your saying.
Can I actually make it to 100 replies?
If you chose to. Go ahead. You can say random things until you reach 100.
Yeah no can do. I have this thing called a life. But feel free to keep mindlessly bickering
So do I and I have something called time management. Just say you don't want to if you don't want to. Saying you have a life is not an excuse. Everyone does have.
that is a nice fact. while i don't agree with the trans thing-i do take pleasure that it pisses the feminists.
It is better for everybody if you use your gender assigned bathroom, even if you identify as something else. These laws the trans are pushing would allow ANYONE to enter a women's bathroom. This opens the door for perverts and pedos to freely enter without question and would give them the power to cry discrimination if they're asked to leave.
@CLASSYMUTT i'm sure some are desperate enough-i won't be shocked
I'm with you on that one.
N. OT. T. H. IN. G can shock me anymore.
so you're a transphobe as well. This is so offensive. Trannies should be accepted in womens sports.
@TheFlak38 screw you feelings, trans is not a man or a female its a trans, and they should not compete in male or female sports. Every transman (aka man who thinks he is a girl) will outperform females in said sport. MMA or box can be fatal for female fighting trans. Man is just way to strong for female to compete in sports.
@Janncis women can be just as strong as men. How can you be so sexist? Girlpower! I support trannies in women sports.
@TheFlak38 oh stfu trans are men in dresses nothing more
@TheFlak38 you can support whatever you want, doesn't make you any less wrong though. Men-turned-trans women utterly DESTROY female athletes in every competition involving pound-for-pound strength (and by extension, speed and power).
@TheFlak38 in what kind lunyland you are living? Man are way stronger than woman, and if you aren't well you are weak as f**k. Yes im sexist because bout sexes are different, so sue me. Google world records at sports, no woman is stronger nor faster than man.
All I see here is a bunch of sexists who say that women aren't stronger than men.
@TheFlak38 get into a weight lifting session with women then come back to say a man is naturally physically stronger than a woman is true we are made to be stronger but that dosent mean females are a weaker gender we both have our strengths and weaknesses a mans strength is providing and protecting a women's is making children nurturing them and raising then we both have our roles and nobody is saying men are superior
@TheFlak38 so pointing out basic anatomical differences via gender-derived gene expression is sexist now? Must be real airtight in that ideological bubble of yours. But, you know, nice try at using ad hominem to deflect logical arguments you don't know how to refute. Real sharp critical thinking skills there.
@TheFlak38 stop being so chronomentrophobic
You are my everything. Nothing really matters but the love you bring.
@Vivaldi lol why thank you dearheart!
I hope you don't go too far but I appreciate that.
So it is ok to be a meninist aka womanhater?
@shinka1y234 Did I say that? No lmfao.
@shinka1y234 You know I could ask you the same thing. Quite a hypocrisy to say feminism is about equality but meninist is about women hating.
You say, you are a meninist
@shinka1y234 And what about you? Nice try blocking me tho. That's not gonna work on this thread lol
What about me?
@shinka1y234 Well I don't wanna sound like a broken tape recorder for you. At least bother to read the thread
I did not say that modern feminism is about equality. I also dont think that modern feminism is a good thing. However, what annoyes me is that some whores try to be an antifeminist aka womanhater to get attention by men. They act like a "beta" male who tries to get easy pussy by agreeing with all feminist ideas.
@shinka1y234 Coming from someone assuming men for being butthurt for downvoting their controversies. You're saying you're not a feminist but you demonstrate what they do. Also that's why I said "I hope you don't go too far but I appreciate that."
Yes, they are butthurt men who dislikes everything when it comes to feminism. Not all feminist ideas are bad. Look I dont support the modern feminism but there is nothing wrong with first and second wave of feminism.
@shinka1y234 Saying hello to a girl means getting beaten up in today's world
If you say hello in a provocative way out of nowhere outside to a stranger, it is a little bit inappriate but to beat up someone for that is too extreme. Just change your environment.
@shinka1y234 "Yes, they are butthurt men who dislikes everything when it comes to feminism." <-- In your assumptions. And my comments and claims gets deleted by feminists a lot just like the anonymous opinion owner on here while they justify im being butthurt that's what they do it but not realizing how that makes them sound. Like trying to dismiss arguments by calling us butthurt thinking that makes them valid in everything.A quote from you "Butt hurt men disliking hahaha" <-- Also butt hurt feminists about men having such "privilege" without even checking their own, butthurt feminists about men addressing their issues, butthurt feminists using feminism as a blockage for egalitarians which prevents egalitarians from voicing out their ideologies and butthurt feminists feeling the need to call themselves feminists, claiming it's equality and only caring about the label because of their notion that there exist a patriarchy and we're living in a patriarchal world where women are oppressed. And little do you know the opinion owner was indeed not butt hurt for deleting this response from you. (sarcasm) "Not all feminist ideas are bad." When there is only one. I'm gonna repeat it again. Feminists feeling the need to call themselves feminists, claiming it's equality and only caring about the label because of their notion that there exist a patriarchy and we're living in a patriarchal world where women are oppressed while ignoring the issues faced by men. It's only equality if it benefits them. That's what they mean by equality.
@shinka1y234 And lastly in case if you don't realize that calling themselves feminists just simply means they're butthurt about men.
Epic, I get the meme, but you should be an egalitarian. All people's rights count.
@shinka1y234 It's a meme ffs.
@shinka1y234 Just because you said meninists are woman haters, I get to call all feminists man haters, but that isn't true, is it?
Actually the woman behind modern feminist is a man hating bitch that tells woman they should be strong, and that they don't need a man to open a door for them and that chivalry is arrogant.But here's some facts about chivalry for you ladies.When walking down the street a man should be on her right side closest to the street. Why you ask?Because in the wild west days people had chamber pots in there upstairs bedrooms. There was an awning over the entrance of most buildings. A woman would walk under the awning and the man would not. So when the people woke up in the morning they threw the contents of their chamber pot out the window. Guess who got covered in shit ladies?Guess who didn't get hit with urine and shit ladies?Also it was for when horses would run by they would splash mud on the man while she remained clean.
@jiffyjeff1029 If a guy wants to keep the door open for me I'm grateful, but it's not something I'd expect from every guy. Some women expect the guy to do all those gentlemanly things for them and get pissed if not.
Barf. Welcome to attracting broke men and scaring away successful ones. That's what that attitude does. Broke men would love a girl who pays their way. Successful men don't. Im rich, im always paying and i expect to pay for a woman ie not someone busting their ass at a job but someone who cooks and cleans and will make a very attentive mother.
@bamesjond0069 If you like entitled women just bc they have a vagina between their legs, good for you. I hate traditonal men who would lock me inside home.
It goes with equality because what you are rejecting is positive sexism.Feminist neeeveeer would go against those privileges, instead of it, would try to justify them on any form.
This wouldn't fit the definition of a modern feminist, but I'm glad you see things this way, it's very reasonable and considerate without being preachy or standoffish. Quite classy, actually.
@jiffyjeff1029 realy? I never knew that, I always walk closest to the curb when with a woman or child so they wouldn't be hit if a car jumped the curb. Funny how the historical explanation for this behaviour contrasts with the modern interpretation.
congratulations! you're not a feminist because the first prerequisite of being a feminist is entitlement which doesn't appear in your comment
@pleasestopthis what do you mean "entitled"? Women who embrace a feminine role are rarely entitled. Its usually women who demand to contribute financially who are entitled.And lmao who the fuck gets locked in a house? You watch too many movies or something and have a very overactive imagination. Why couldn't you leave? So freaking weird.
@jiffyjeff1029 chivalry lol pretty sure a chivalric knight was a cross between the local thug, rapist and murderer
Yo, why this boi getting downvoted, he spittin true facts.
@SwordShield Thanks bro. They are indeed true facts, but of course it is not politically correct to acknowledge all the negative things feminism has done. Instead, the "correct" thing to do is attribute only positive things to feminism, even if feminism had nothing to do with those things, and we must believe the feminist revisionist "history" even when that "history" is completely inaccurate and not supported by facts.
It tells me that you are out of touch.
@Guffrus Me saying dudes are disliking every positive comment and liking everything that says "women are bad", "feminist are bad" is being out of touch. I mean, you can look at the comments
And do you wanna talk about the 20k upvotes he got from the video from men AND women? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THuA82rSn58&t=53s
I mean that guy cared to explain rather than just saying feminism is cancer or whatever.
And yet the radicals seem to control the entire narrative. Why don't moderate feminists speak up more? (There are some here on GaG, in all fairness, and yes sometimes it can be a problem when the moderate voices get downvoted just because we *expect* them to be "radicals in disguise" or something.) I genuinely am curious, because whenever I see a radical spouting off about some bullshit, I never see other feminists call it out, I just see them nod their heads all like "preach it sister!"
Thinking that feminism is being given a bad name by a few bad apples makes you out of touch.
@Guffrus I didn't even say that. Please, read carefully. I said some guys think that. Not me. Again read carefully.
@SomeGuyCalledTom I see many call that out. Just because you personally dont doesn't mean it's not happening.
@Mil00Quote: You have feminists, then you have the radicals.That's in just about any movement or group.Bunching in a whole group because of a handful is bad.
@Mil00 fair enough
@Guffrus no clue what your point even is. Kinda annoying.
@Guffrus I'm stating how some people feel. They see a few bad people that claim to be apart of a movement that is supposed to be peaceful, but these people are everything but. So I stead of understanding that's not ALL , they'd rather bunch the bad with the good and leave it at that.I dont know how you aren't getting that.
@Mil00 I dont consider feminism to be a broadly positive movement given a bad name by a few bad apples.I view it as a predominantly bad movement which still manages to maintain the support of some very confused people who claim to be proponents of equality but who fail to realise that modern feminism is nothing to do with equality.The intellectual property, the branding of the movement still holds currency and people have a romantic attachment to the name.It is my opinion that anyone who stands for equality would be better served by using the term equality as there is no ambiguity as to its meaning.
@Guffrus oh, okay. Thanks for sharing. Despite my comment being about likes and dislikes, not my views (views that I didn't even share, leading to me wondering why you shared that with someone that didn't say they were a feminist or anything)
Oh come on are you just going to talk shit the whole time?I had to fucking quote you earlier when you claimed not to have said something which you explictly stated.Now you want to fucking play games pretending you are a fairy dancing along a waterline with perfectly dry feet.You are full of shit.
@Guffrus I was quoting what has been said. No clue why you're so angry.
@Guffrus you're really getting angry and trying to debate with someone that is showing clear signs they have no interest. That someone is me.I'm not even going into detail with what you're saying, because I have no interest. It's been 3 days. You're 40, you should be able to read the room.The room says this person isn't interested in debating.I have no interest. There. I have said the same thing, but worded differently. 4 times
Speaking for myself, I feel like I truly lack knowledge and awareness about what Feminism truly involves, the ideas/stances held, or what goals/actions are sought. I feel like I understand much less given the responses.
Look it seems to me that you have a horse in the race and you are pretending that you dont.You dont understand why the comment you view as positive comments are being down voted, well maybe there is something about them that you didn't understand which makes them not so positive.For me and some others too feminist is synonymous with misandrist, thats literally what i hear when you say that so obviously a statement that says essentially misandrists hate men is going to be upvoted because its true.
You're so awesome!Hallelujah praise the lord, a sane, rational man speaking words of wisdom on this subject. (I don't blame you for going anon.)
@AmandaYVR Thanks, yeah, some of us know the truth, even though, the truth bothers the uninformed bigots and misogynists (mostly incels and mgtow fanatics).
feminism[ˈfeməˌnizəm]NOUNthe advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.
Imma admit, you got some facts that are right, I give you that, but your idea of feminism is clouded. You should just be an egalitarian, fighting for men's, and women's rights.
Exactly, the facts, key words are: On the basis of the equality of the sexes.Egalitarianism is belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs, it's not specifically gender based. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/egalitarianism
egalitarianism[ēˌɡaləˈterēəˌnizəm]NOUNthe doctrine that 'all people' are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.
You can interpret it in any way, but I'm just saying, a term having the meaning of a neutral political standpoint within the gender area would be a more sensible thing to be called as.
I'm not here to judge, I just hope that you are way less radical than those portrayed upon history, and the news.
Of course, I said I'm a feminist, I don't like feminazis. Egalitarians support lots of other things not related to gender equality, like different political, religious and philosophical views which I don't supports.
There are still girls getting married off to older men, girls that get their vulva sewed up and ripped off by a man that their parents gave them to. You're 15, your can look up what's happening to women outside of the United states and any other country that has it "made"
@Mil00 Yeah probably should've added in countries that women still don't have rights. I was talking about where they do.
hehe preach girl
@Mamamialetmego i mean its true🤷♀️🤷♀️
I didn't say it isn't ;)
Not shaving has nothing to with feminism.
*in comes a feminist. I guess it was another personal attack. Sorry not sorry. Truth hurts
Feminism also suppurt sluts? :)
Apparently if you are part of the mix. Now good night☺️💋
I just do not get you. Shavin has really nothinh to do with feminism. It is a trend. For 100 years ago nobody shave themself. Also in Europe a generation ago shaving was not tgat common
Whatever, thanks for reply then
Ashh you are savage :D
Feminists are also against slut shaming but yeah. You are right. Everything what feminists is bullshit so we should shame on you then
@shinka1y234 Modern feminism is misandry. If you support equality, then just talk about equality. Its not complicated. The womens movement was over a long time ago, quite a long time before you were born actually. The other thing you didn't get was a joke. So as you clearly dont understand very much about what is going on around you perhaps you should listen more than you speak.
I say what i want and i am not a feminist but some people here do nothing than being an antiwoman.
@shinka1y234 you are right they are losers
@shinka1y234 yepp your right. I shave and am girly, yepp im very anti woman👍Fyi you're 19 and muslim, you're not even a woman yet but a girl. Nothing you say is even fyped in correct grammar and no one and taking you seriously. So do yourself a favor and get off my post amd take your hijabu or whatever the fkk y'all wear there , with you. you're annoying at this point hun💋
This woman preaching straight facts.
@angstySynAlmost married you just now
@JayLiche I'll buy you the ring...
@angstySin it gives us all headaches, not just the men😄
Imagine a female President in WW11 telling the army to use the atomic bomb. It would not have happened and there would have been millions of more men killed by the Japanese. Very few of you women in America would have been born, under Japanese Dictators. So FEMINIST CARRY ON.
Lol the only reason the draft group was just for men is cuz u couldnt be drafted as a women
@Gabrielskaddadle Ugh yeah.. that's kinda why I mentioned it, and if you actually READ then you would of seen I said that: "That movement had really had nothing to do with women, cause we didn't have to worry about being" Derp moment there buddy. lol
*darfted. Didn't get copied in there.
Soz i read it again i see what u were saying bout it now. Just thought it was telling that that was the only u mentioned
@gabriel can you read? Good god
Yup, why, are u struggling to understand what i said
@Gabrielskaddadle You do know there was and is a movement for men right? And men's rights movement as well.. there's plenty of movements catered to just men.. I only mentioned Anti draft as an example to show that their have been movements only for the male sex.
@britt dont waste your time he's slow
I'm so with you. I read and see your likes and it's just sad to see so many idiots.
Butt hurt men disliking hahaha
@Thomas_Shelby Because I can be, I don't want trolls to send me messages on the inbox.
@Syrian_survivor No, it's not the only thing, it's just an example.
@OrangeBoy2 You're totally right, thanks for the support :)
@shinka1y234 Yeah, hahahaha, they always do that 😂
Many countries are still patriachal.
Can i follow you?
@SomeGuyCalledTom I already said, it gives women more confidence. By feminism, I actually mean feminism, not femi-nazism, learn the difference.
@Aiko_E_Lara Oh the asker did? No he didn't, you just proved how dumb you are. I deleted your ignorant comment, and I always will, cause you don't know anything about the truth. I talk only with smart men, who know the difference between feminism and femi-nazism, and who know that egalitarianism is equality in some other terms, not just gender based. I know that word "sex" bothers you cause you're a pathetic incel, but hey, what can you do ;) Good bye, don't bother to troll again, because you'll get deleted, along with all of your fake profiles, both male and female :)
@Thomas_Shelby Nobody is more pathetic than you (mr fake profile of that incel loser) 😂
@shinka1y234 You already are my follower :)
@Syrian_survivor Not as stupid as you, cause it takes just one small movement for me to delete your spam, while it takes more effort for you to troll around, well, there are some male feminists in here, why don't you ask them how did feminism help them... bye bye :)
My question was about how feminism helps men achieve better relationships and sex (which I guess you've since deleted.. okay?). Are saying that because feminism makes women more confident, that men have better relationships *because* their partners are more confident? I'm just trying to ascertain your reasoning on this. Usually when one makes a claim, one gives some kind of supporting argument for why the claim is valid. What's the supporting argument for feminism improving men's relationships and sex life?
@SomeGuyCalledTom Ok, I'll give you one more chance to understand. I know many guys who are in happy relationships with strong women who are feminists (not femi-nazis like those ugly & fat freaks with purple hair). Would you, as a man, prefer a confident woman, or a crybaby? Would you like a woman who would take initiative and ask you for a date, or would you rather embarrass yourself by getting rejected?Would you rather be with a woman who would work and contribute to the family, or would you rather have a burden of financially supporting the family all by yourself?I hope you understand now :)
To answer your questions:-- I'd prefer a confident woman, and have met many such women. Some may consider themselves feminist, some may not (frankly, I never asked, it doesn't really affect my decision of whether I wanna keep seeing a girl). I don't believe confidence comes from a political ideology, it comes from how one conducts one's life. But sure, gender equality tends to produce more capable, self-assured individuals, as opposed to tyrannical societies where women have no rights or are viewed as "inferior" to men. So let's say we're on the same page here.
-- It makes no difference to me whether she asks me on a date first; if I'm interested, chances are I'll ask her out first as I'm quite direct in my intentions. I've had girls approach me before, but it didn't seem like a feminist thing, they were just comfortable in their own skin and not playing games
-- if a woman wants to support our (theoretical) family financially, in addition to my own financial providing, then I've got nothing specific against that, and I do not want to marry some gold digging whore who just runs off with the fruits of my labour at the first chance. So in a broad sense I agree with what you're getting at here. Although I can also see the benefits of a marriage where man works full time, while woman provides "full time" child-rearing, home-keeping, etc. In either case, the division of labour should add up to around 50/50. I'm also fine couples who have the man stay at home with kids and the woman is the sole breadwinner. It's not a relationship model I would want for myself, but if those couples like that arrangement and it works for them and the kids, then more power to them. I suspect they will never constitute the majority of couples, and in some ways are kinda "outlier" cases. But I don't hold anything against them for their choices.
So, I'm still not convinced that feminism directly and measurably improves men's relationships and sex life. But I can, if nothing else, appreciate your reasoning that's brought you to such conclusion. Thankyou for clarifying your position. Best wishes :)
@SomeGuyCalledTom You're welcome, I'm glad we agree on most things, thanks, best wishes to you too :)
@OrangeBoy2 I'd appreciate you not to invoke spam on my opinion by that pathetic loser who can't tell the difference between feminism and femi-nazism, who misuses the term "egalitarianism", because he doesn't know what that really is, and who is a quasi-philosopher, who always uses "ad hominem" bullshit because he doesn't know what else to say, cause he is too ignorant to say anything smart. It's always important who said it, I strictly differentiate words of a dumb person (who doesn't know anything about the subject and can't tell apart different terms) and smart person (who knows the differences between those terms). Pseudo-science of various mgtow freaks on youtube is not an argument.I hope you understand, I won't tolerate trolling and spamming anymore :)
What... You could have left the comments, someone could have learned something from it, we both wrote a lot. Done here...
@OrangeBoy2 From him? Only a psychiatrist could have learned certain mental problems in incels, but I doubt there are any psychiatrists on the GaG ;) Ok, nice talking to you :)
I honestly don't think this is helping men it's rather ruining us
I was just at friends birthday party. All I saw was guys bragging about how good they were in bed and how many chicks they slept with. If a women did same sort of thing. She would immediately get labeled SLUT. As though if having sex Is a one way street for men. I do believe it take 2 to do the deed. So slut shaming in my view needs to stop and thanks to Feminism they are half way there.
So, "act more feminine so you won't kill yourself"?
@FaisalR Explain how it's ruining men.@SwordShield Nice strawman, but no. Do you actually disagree with me? And if so, could you explain why without attacking an argument I didn't make?
Yeah, that was pretty stupid of me to say. I was pretty heated from people using "toxic masculinity" over and over again. Forgive me.
@SwordShield: Thanks, I appreciate that. Also, I'm interested in what your take on "toxic masculinity"/the use of that term is. Personally, I agree that the concept it describes exists, but I think the term itself is a bit too charged to effectively communicate the meaning.
So, what does toxic masculinity mean then? How should I act?
To me, based on the ways I've seen it used, it means social expectations that encourage men to behave in ways that are potentially unhealthy for themselves or others. That's things like not acknowledging your own emotions (other than anger, in many cases) and not being sensitive to the feelings of others, being violent, doing dangerous things to show bravery, being competitive/dominant, showing sexual interest in women, and not asking other people for help. That doesn't necessarily mean that doing things like that is 100% bad or 100% socially and not biologically based, or that if someone naturally enjoys those things that they shouldn't do them at all. It just means that expecting men to act in these ways and shaming them if they don't is harmful to the health of many men, and to the health of those around them. So basically, act in whatever way brings the most happiness to yourself while avoiding hurting those around you, and don't expect yourself or others to act in specific ways just because it conforms to typical ideas of "masculinity".Do you see the term differently? If so, can you explain why/where you've seen it used that way?
Great job, devil!
If that were indeed the case. Why are feminists complicit in bringing millions of migrants who want nothing but establish patriarchal rule? Dont give me that bullshit that your work is not over yet, feminist savagery will never be over.
@AmandaYVR tnx :)@esotericstory um issue of immigrants has more to do with nacism conflicting with humanity not really feminism; I have not seen feminist promoting migrants coming tho
The least they can do is protest migrant rape
@esotericstory I think anyone can protest against thatI see no sense in saying someone must care about certain issues like its their responsability
Feminists in Europe refuse to speak out about migrant rape gangs. If you care about women's rights, they have to speak about it. If not, they are betraying their own principles.
@esotericstory I dont really think it goes that way. As a feminist i dont think you MUST be active and passionate about ALL gender issues. And let along doesn't make it right that anyone damands for you to care about specific issue. Also i dont see rape as feminism issue really. Rape is generally by society an issue that is already regulated by laws. Be it by immigrant or anyone.
So campaigns like metoo should deal with rape, but not with immigrant rape gangs roaming the streets? 12dezibel is an organization started simply to deal with feminist censorship of migrants raping little girls. If you speak out about one type of rape but not about the others you are a hypocrite and you have betrayed your own values.
@esotericstory as i said i simply dont agree with your logic, if you are only active againt racism in the USA cause you live there doesn't mean you must be active against racism everywhere, which doesn't mean you think racism there is ok, but that you have enough on you plate dealing with racism in your own life. And men often dont get this, you tend to DEMAND that if someone is feminist they MUST resolve men issues too. You may be feminist and feel for men issues but it doesn't mean one MUST actively resolve someone elses issues. Being activist about anything is someones choice, doesn't mean if someone is not an activist that they dont care about the issue nor that they must do something about it
there's no logic to it. If thousands of girls are being raped and molested, that becomes a topic you should get active about it, instead feminists are PREVENTING women from speaking out about it.
I'm an activist myself, dont give me that bullshit. Migrant rape is more of an issue than gender neutral toilets and you fucking well know it.
@esotericstory I don't know who pissed you off but I see no feminist preventing anyone talking about it... if someone identifies as feminist and prevents such talks then I can understand your anger but i dont think you can say all feminist do that. I compltely agree that migrants issues are prominent but im unsure of details about it. Sometimes its just about promoting hate against migrants. I sencerly dubt that most men in those countries are all rapist that molest women.
Hahahahaha that's funny.
I also heard one where they put the bulb in the socket and let the world revolve around them.
I have another one. What's the difference between a baby and a feminist?The baby eventually grows and stop crying.
Indeed, it actually does nothing for anyone.
It has been the 4th wave of feminism for over a decade already and the 3rd wave was not about bringing men down.
How are you doing?
Give some sources please. I've never seen feminists talk about those topics
@CLASSYMUTT I recommend taking a quick google if you're curious. I'm not a feminist so I'm not the best person to direct questions to, though my search has found these:time.com/.../www.theatlantic.com/.../repository.uchastings.edu/.../viewcontent.cgiwww.theguardian.com/.../paternity-leave-women-equality-gender
tandfonline.com/.../09589236.2014.959479www.pulp-usu.com/.../opinion-on-gay-men-and-the-feminist-movementI hope any of this helps. I can't give the sources of what I've seen as this has been over the course of my lifetime and, since I'm not a feminist myself, I haven't exactly been keeping track of the information I've read. Just been reading their view points and then moving on.
Should also clarify again for all the men downvoting this opion: I'm not a feminist. Simply saying what I have observed over the years. Thank you for your time.
Actually, if you delve further into it, the rape part was actually an accident. When feminists were fighting for the definition of rape to be changed so women who were unconscious would be included, they accidentally let men be defined.
Give me ONE example of a feminist fighting for the idea of a men's shelter.
Whether the origin was an accident or not, I have seen feminists fighting for awareness regarding male rape. I can't give you an example of feminists fighting for a men's shelter, I've just seen them talking about needing more awareness for male victims of domestic abuse.
GIVE THIS MAN LIKES.
"feminism helps men by letting women show their true colors". So that means feminism help woman to show their true nature instead of acting like one. Well, women actually are hypergamy. So that means they are very selective and picky when it comes to dating. If you are not tall enough, average looking or good looking etc. women would not even look at you. That is how it is. It is their nature. Why do you complain. A woman is like that. Anyway you can choose to be gay.
@shinka1y234 Did i mention Hypergamy? anyway i don't care if women are selective but women should be careful what is their own worth. every woman wants a tall, rich handsome guy with great personality who adores them but do all women deserve that? no. that kind of guy is out of almost all women's league. that's why most women end up single and childless because they ignore men in their own league. i'm straight and can't just switch to be gay but sometimes i think about it and honestly those gay men are smart for not letting women in their lives
I feel exactly that way about the term, and sometimes I want to mansplain why it ought be changes, but then sanity returns.
1) No we still can't show emotion. I've never heard any woman say "Oh my God, his crying makes me hot". Women say "You should show more emotion" like they say "Sure go out with your friends. It doesn't matter to me :)".
Men showing emotions disgust women a woman will lose all respect for a crying man
@Hypnos0929 I was waiting for this response. No I don't ridicule men for crying. When I see a man crying I figure he's hit is limit. I prefer being with a man who shows his emotions versus having him end up with emotional problems because of it or having a heart attack or something.
@Cocacolaaddict No I respect a man who cries. I figure he's hit his limit at that point. It is a lot better than a man going and getting drunk or being depressed and withdrawn or worse. I a
tell me what you're thinking = give me ammunition for the next time we have an argument
But can you say the majority of women think that way?
The emotional response is a false flag. What you mean is that feminism has asked men to surpress their natural response to emotional distress and instead emote how women emote. In other words ignore your own biological response to emotional stimulation and instead respond how women naturally respond to emotions. Otherwise it is called toxic, or suppression.
@JSG4_ actually my ex did that to me. I told him something and I asked that he never bring it up in a fight because it was painful to me. He did bring it up in an argument.
@Hypnos0929 I have no idea but that is how I function. I think there are more women than you think that get hurt by seeing their man cry.
@Anpu23 I'm not saying men have to run around crying all the time. If a man cries a lot he's either depressed or has some coping skills issues. I'm talking about when a man cries because he's legitimately sad or afraid like when he loses his job after 30 years, some he knows is sick or dies, if his child is having problems, things like that. Real reasons that anyone would cry. If a man starts crying all the time when it isn't his norm it's time to get it checked out medically.
You misunderstood, according to FMRI men's emotional centers are tied to the areas for action and movement, while women's centers are tied to communication. Therefore it seems to be natural for guys to act on their emotions while it seems to be natural for women to talk about there emotions.Therefore a constructive way for men to address emotional distress would be something physical, working out, building something etc. Yet these behaviors have been labeled as avoidance or to take a more popularistic term toxic. Therefore this campaign to get guys to open up is actually counter to biology and not helpful, instead it is a control technique to force men to emote in a way that women relate to. And is probably effecting the emotional health of many men.
@Anpu23 ah that makes sense. I do believe there is some truth to that. I meant more like a brief crying spell if something came up. Most men aren't prone to talk in great depth about something unless it is pretty overwhelming.Side Note: i think if boys (well girls too) had more time to be active like when I was in school with three recesses and free playing instead of organized activities all the time I think that there would be more well balanced boys and men.
Oh! You made a typo! What you actually meant to say was "be more feminine so you don't kill yourself".
Oh? Prove it.
LOL, dude, you know it already, I don't need to prove to you, cause you're one of them :DYou have only three followers, and you're following only 10 people, if we disregard the admins, almost all the others (both male and female) are duplicate accounts of one and the same male chauvinist, a bitter and pitiful incel, who is using proxies, or VPN, or a software for hiding IP, in order to prevent them from discovering your little secret... but unfortunately for you, that trick doesn't work on me, I can see right through you ;)
PS - I also know about the others, you have a full grid of them, including at least one of the mods, male, 36 years old, sounds familiar? 😈 I can go on you know 😁Yup, dude, you have no life ;)
Meh, whatever you want to think. I'm no chauvinist.
You can go on, but I doubt that any of it will mean anything because I'm not an alt.
In fact, this is most likely a tactic to wind me up. Nice try, how about you answer the question?
Also, those longwinded posts with all those passive-aggressive emojis make it look like you are quite mad. Relax, watch some relaxing videos, then come back and answer my question if you want to.
Ah you're no chauvinist, really? Wow, I'm stunned :DSure you aren't, oh, does that mean you're the original and all the others are your alts? Good to know ;)Tactic to wind you up, interesting, I never thought of that... I guess it's cause of your experience, after all, you're 103 years old 😂Aha, passive-aggressive emojis, I heard that one before, but from some of your alts :PNo problem, here are some of the answers:www.dailyedge.ie/.../Note that those accomplishments are deeds of actual feminism, not feminazis (every sane person knows the difference).
That article is legit pandering and guesses.
Hate to break it to you, women have been in the workforce for literally AGES.
And, one more thing before I leave, how can you prove I have alts?
The article is legit, most men agree (except incels, mgtow, religious fanatics and their duplicate accounts) ;)I know that women have been in the workforce for ages, I never said they weren't. You're hiding it pretty well, but it took you awhile to answer this, which means you were busy with your other profiles :D
I was doing something called living and sleeping. Goodbye.
Seriously? You sleep very long, like Summer hibernation... okey dokey, if you say so dude... Goodbye :)
I see so many girls waking up to this feminist bullshit, but then again I see many that love all the feminist shit.Nonetheless, it's nice to see women like you who are not giving into feminist BS.
Pink downvotes without any posts tell me I'm right 😂😂😂😂😂
Yet feminism says it's for equality...
Oh! Wait! I forgot, we can't exactly do that because we'll be belittled endlessly, have counter protests at every event, and be called "male supremicists" by the media. This all happened in Australia already.
Nah we can. But men secretly are happy with the system of employment, the entertainment industry, our political structure etc. That’s why we never created a movement for equality. Right? Feminism was started and created by women. Not men. Because we liked the status quo. And I have some advice for you. Try being a man. Trying having integrity and some honesty about this.
I need you to elaborate on your statement "be a man". What do you actually mean?
And, I must elaborate on my question. This question was made because of the influx of TED TALK speeches that have said that "feminism helps men".
Oh, I created a take on "Masculine traits". You know. . . on that being a man thing.What Are Masculine Traits? ↗I was surprised that so many of you young fellas as GaG think being a man is supposed to be about whining about feminism. Weirdness.
And they are wrong. Feminism was not invented to "help" men. We have to invent a movement to help men. But the truth again, is that we did not think we needed help. Because the systems in place, were to our liking. Mostly.One for the Boys! Samuel L. Jackson's Charity Focuses on Men's Health Issues ↗This organization "helps" men. Unfortunately, it was started by a woman. I know I would not start an organization to help women.
I know it wasn't invented to help men, old-timer, but if the majority says they are for equality, and feminists create TED TALKS saying "men need feminism", what am I actually gaining?
I whine against feminism from a neutral standpoint and from the experience of my problems being ignored while EVERYONE ELSE gets charities, days, and even months to support them.
Look, man, I get what you're trying to say here, you got good ideas and good intentions, but I myself am fed up with stuff like the lack of abused men's shelters, not enough representation for abused men, and no voice.
And I am extremely offended that feminists would claim that "toxic masculinity" is the main problem instead of their own ignorance, and that they are for equality but have not donated anything to men.
There is only believed to be TWO shelters in the USA for abused men, yet there is an agency for abused women in every single one of your states.
There's about 2 in Canada as well, all unfunded by the government.
I'm not a political man, but I want only simple things out of the bountiful resources that our countries have on hand. I am extremely sorry for the pandering.
Well young whipper snapper. . . if you know feminism was not created to help men. . . why all the whining? Oh, so you actually admit to whining. Wow. That's amazing. Well, at least you are honest.But yeah, stay here and whine about how women don't create men's shelters. You don't seem to understand how hilarious you sound. Well. . . there is sad too. I uncertain as to which is worse.But if men do not help themselves. . . they really can't complain about anyone else not helping them. It ain't like we lack the resources, dude. But well. . . it isn't like you practice that thing that men are supposed be good at. . ."logic"..