I've been noticing that some feminists have been trying to garner male support by saying that "feminism helps men too". Prove it.How does feminism help men?
How does feminism help men?
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TL:DR summary : feminism destroys gender assumptions for both men and women.
Some concepts feminism covers
1.) Men are not financially responsible for women! If you and your partner come to the decision that you both want the guy to be the bread winner, thats fine, do what works for your relationship. However, feminism addresses that there shouldn't be the expectation that you'll pay for every date or that you have to work yourself to death to support someone who doesn't feel like working. Additionally, its ok if your woman is the bread winner. You two decide you should be a stay at home dad? great! You aren't "less of a man" because you support your family in a different way than gender stereotypes say you should.
2.) Men have emotions and are allowed to show them! There's this silly assumption that men dont cry. Everyone cries. We're human. You aren't less of a man for showing emotion. Quite the opposite, beung comfortable showing your emotions improves your relationships with your female counterparts. Some men on here saying "no woman is gonna be turned on by crying ", uhm, men aren't either. Its not about being sexually attractive, its about having healthy emotional experiences.
3.) Men get raped too. Feminism is a great supporter of sexual assault and harassment victims, reguardless of gender.
4.) Feminism supports the breakdown of racial stereotypes. An assertive black woman isn't "bossy" or "sassy", black men aren't inheritly violent. Black hair doesn't have to be permed or fake to be "Professional "
5.) People are allowed to explore sexuality/sexual desires. Feminism supports sexual freedom. There's this unfortunate fear in straight men of doing something "gay". For example, you can be straight and still like ya girl to put a finger in ya booty hole. It doesn't make you less of a man. It means two consenting adults are doing whatever the heck they want without weird assumptions.
6.) Men aren't responsible for my well being. This isn't just about money as addressed in pt. 1. I am not dependant on my boyfriend for my happiness. We operate as two separate people. Of course as a couple we support one another emotionally but if I really have a probpen2I can't just sit and boohoo to my boyfriend, its not his problem!
7.) Men deserve PAID paternity leave! Your lady love just brought a new life into this world that is 50% you! We think you might want to spend some time with your family and not worry about work for a little bit. Mom is likely exhausted and healing and taking care of a new born is not easily a 1 person job.
8.) Its ok to take pride in your appearance that isn't just a muscular body. Why is it taboo if a man dyes his hair and doesn't like his grey showing through? Or maybe his beard grows in a few different colors and he thinks it would look better if it was a more uniform color. And on the opposite, no one bats an eye at men going grey yet women are pressured to dye their hair?
9.) Self care is for everyone. Its not any less masculine to get nasty calluses taken off your feet via a pedicure. Self care isn't feminine. Self care is genderless. Bubble baths feel amazing, and have great physocal benefits no reason you shouldn't enjoy one just because you have a penis.
10.) Feminism supports body positivity reguardless of gender. Men dont have to have that "dorito chip body ratio" to be attractive. Everyone finds different things attractive. Just let bodies be bodies.
Of course there are femnazis who really aren't feminists, but claim they are. Its unfortunate and they're embarassing to actual feminists. Don't let them speak for actual feminism.
We acknowledge male victims of sexual harassment and advocate due and just punishment for female sex offenders. We are aware that men don't take rape the same way and some actually enjoy it (in which case it's no more rape it's just sex) but it's just that men are equally deserving of justice if they want it. In fact, feminists pressured the FBI to make their definition of rape gender neutral and not something that only happens to women.
We do not shame men for being soft or feminine. More men are getting the opportunity to express their feminine sides in the age that we live in. Women mainly support them while men are the ones shaming them and harassing them. Of course it doesn't mean that we don't appreciate masculine men either. But it's just that, we have a more 'you do you' attitude. I'd never be in a relationship with an effeminate guy myself, however I don't support discriminating them either.
We don't believe that someone should be able to get away with doing something wrong just because she's a woman. Basically, justice shouldn't be favoring any gender. We want men to have it fair as much as we want women to have it fair too.
Many feminists advocate paid paternity leave.
Feminists also advocate increased accessibility of mental healthcare for everyone. Nearly 80% of all successful suicides are committed by men due to mental health issues and we want men to be able to get any treatment that they need. It again comes down to the point that men shouldn't be shamed for not being tough and rough all the time.
Feminists are also against body shaming and it applies for men as well. At least women got different body types and what not to appreciate but men are still all for that one v-taper... I don't support eating disorders or not taking care of yourself but it's just that, it's ok if you're a lean guy and can't bulk up a lot, it's okay if you are a little chubby especially for hormonal issues. We also support media inclusivity for men of all ethnicities as well.
We are against women who trick their men into pregnancy so that he stays with them. No feminist friend of mine ever thought that it's funny or cute.
"feminists pressured the FBI to make their definition of rape gender neutral and not something that only happens to women." no offense but that's horseshit. watch the video i posted on my comment from 6:30 and watch how feminists have changed rules to benefit women and not men. feminist only made gender neutral those rules that benefited women not the other way around
1) Feminism is meant for protecting rights on women. I don't see why focusing on women's rights is wrong then. Next what, religion is wrong for focusing on God? School is wrong for focusing on education? The problem here is that, men think that trying to change things to benefit women automatically means that it will be a threat for men. It doesn't have to be that way. 2) I know men don't enjoy rape. But this is what some MEN have told me themselves, that they would like it. Which is why I wrote 'some men' and also specified that if you have consent and are enjoying it it's no more rape it's just sex.
"men think that trying to change things to benefit women automatically means that it will be a threat for men" that has precisely been the feminist approach throughout the years. they keep governments from funding programs that help women because they believe all the funding should go to women's programs because women have been victims so they need support but men don't need any support because they're oppressors. feminists believe if governments help men then that'll reduce the help that women receive. so what you're accusing men of, is exactly what feminist believe. just look up the number of women's shelters in US and compare it to the number of men's shelters. The duluth model is an example of the laws passed by feminists that automatically recognizes men as perpetrators. i think you should compare your own ideology with feminist ideology because if you think this is unfair then you can't be a feminist but if you agree with things like the duluth model then there's no chance you care about men and their well being
but there are no more laws that benefit men. all those laws are gender neutral now thanks to feminists. i'm sorry you didn't get a word of what i said.
Bro you live in Bangladesh. Why are you talking from the American perspective? Feminism can help women in Bangladesh but feminism in America has run it's course. And just to be clear, feminism only helps women and not men. That goes for America and Bangladesh. Feminism won't help men in Bangladesh in any shape or form because it's a patriarchal society. We have all the rights that a man can have. It's like a paradise for us here. Feminism only seeks to ruin society and thank god it hasn't infested in our country or else we would've been finished just like other 1st world countries.
@UI_Vegeta01 i'm from a muslim country too. it's weird that we were discussing feminism in America but the reason that's important to me is because i can see the cultural changes happening in my country. i live in iran. and feminism and liberalism is becoming very popular here. seeing how that has ruined US, i don't want the same thing to happen to my country. i mean we already have a lot of the same problems that American men face but i don't want my country to be a hell hole for men like it is in so many other countries
Unfortunately much of the points you make involving definitions or institutional response is the result of feminist lobbying. Without a recognition of this and an apology you can't make progress. You don't praise an arsonist for putting out their own fire
"I'd never be in a relationship with an effeminate guy myself" Exactly this attidude is what defines feminism in the 21 century. The entire progressive agenda can engulf the world in the deepest most perverted barbarism as long as it doesn't affect me, my husband or my children. This individualist attitude is pathetic because you will be victim of the cannibalization sooner or later.
@morrowlow Then all we got to do is pray. Rest is out of our hands. And i hope Iran doesn’t go down that path because that’s the true definition of a nightmare. I was hoping that Muslim countries would tackle this feminism cancer well but what the fuck am I hearing about all this crap. We are fucked if we don’t do anything quick. And nice to meet you man. Are you a Muslim living in Iran throughout your life?
Rape is still rape even if I end up getting pleasure from it. You still forced me into something I didn't want to do against my will. Men are harder to rape because we are stronger and larger but don't think for a moment that we are in full control over or body functions, we might still get hard even if we don't want it. With your kind of think it would be okay to rape women aslong as you give her a orgasm, how sick isn't that.
@esotericstory lol what's wrong? Am pretty sure you don't like a woman bodybuilder does it mean that you will say all female bodybuilders should be banned? No! You let them be. Live and let live. It doesn't justify cannibalism, what the heck. Stop making stupid implications. I won't date a non-Muslim either does it mean that I suddenly believe people don't have the right to have other Faiths? You possibly won't even approach a woman who wears niqab does it mean that you suddenly want all women to stop wearing that instead of believing that they can mind their own business while you do yours?
@UI_Vegeta01 Only because I'm in BD doesn't mean that I can't answer a question that's not very relevant to our culture.
Also regarding Bangladesh, feminism has tremendously benefitted men here. Previously women were responsible for housework while men worked outside but now women take the load of BOTH office and household and men are already becoming useless vegetables not working very hard in workplace and chilling at home and hanging out with friends in the weekend with absolutely no desire to look after children. Fortunately very recently some guys are being a bit more willing to give time to their family but I can't count in how many families women have literally taken the charge of e v e r y t h i n g.
Nope you’re wrong. Nothing you said is true. You are just making shit up at this point. The only thing that’s true is that men in Bangladesh are avoiding marriage. I would know cause I am a man and I have a lot of guy friends. You don’t know what you are talking about. And no feminism didn’t help men in Bangladesh in any way. Sitting at home like a sloth and doing nothing while the wife is doing everything doesn’t really help a man. So as I said before, feminism doesn’t help men in any way. You keep your feminist beliefs and I will keep mine.
Pretty sure if I take advantage of an intoxicated man nothing would happen to me even if he reported it to police and I admitted to it. The law is sexist towards men.
Women also can get circumcised at birth if their family want it. Persobally I dont want to do that to my future son if i get one although I am a muslim
Dont know it. Where do you live? I think it is because of religious people. Muslims and jews do cricumcised little male kids. That is why here in the country I live, the law is not changed.
" I'd never be in a relationship with an effeminate guy myself" that's exactly the point right there though. Men discourage each other from acting feminine because we instinctively know it makes us less sexually desirable to women. Once a man turns feminised, the women around him instantly cross him off their list of potential sexual mates. So if he wants to find a mate without resorting to fucking dudes instead (or ultra-masculine women with short crop military haircuts and 30" biceps), then he has no choice but to drop the feminine act and get back to his masculine core.
I do agree that men should be free to indulge their softer, more vulnerable side, and enjoy less "manly" pursuits like reading romance novels, writing poetry, or just having a good cry. In my mind, I see "vulnerability" and "being feminised" as two very different things. A man being vulnerable is still just as masculine, it's just that he can't always be that strong fearless badass 24/7, life takes a toll on everyone. Vulnerability at the right time and place has improved every relationship I've held with a woman. But I never let myself become feminised, I always operated within the "range of tolerance" for masculine behaviour/ values. Because I'm a heterosexual man, and so I want the women I sleep with to CARRY ON SLEEPING WITH ME. If I wanted them to leave me for some other guy, the first thing I'd do is start acting like a woman all the time. Harsh but true. Women prove this for themselves in the men they select as sexual partners. It's actually so accurate, that I've been able to predict in the past when a couple will break up, based on who's acting more masculine and who's acting more feminine over time. It's ridiculously precise, I didn't wanna believe it at first, but women kept proving their own preferences for masculine men.
@SomeGuyCalledTom The only women who like a feminine man are women who are manipulators and looking for a weak fragile victim to destroy. This is why men discourage each other from being feminine.
oh hey, I just realised this is the same comment I was replying to yesterday lol. Hope you don't mind my mini essays haha, I'm just very interested in this whole subject of masculine vs. feminine roles. Even if we disagree in a lot of ways, I'm sure you'd make an interesting person to sit down with and exchange ideas over a beer :)
oh wait, no I'm thinking of another comment I was replying to yesterday. I think maybe you and I debated a little on another thread perhaps, @CubsterShura? Anyways...
@shinka1y234 hat part of its current definition are you unclear on? Webster says: "[masculinity is] the set of qualities considered appropriate for or characteristic of men"
@shinka1y234 what? I'm giving you the literal dictionary definition. And you realise a "characteristic" can refer to physical traits as well as behavioural traits right? A cleft palate is a physical characteristic. "Strength in face of adversity" is a behavioural characteristic, and perhaps also a psychological characteristic (since all behaviour starts in the mind). These are really basic levels of definition, so I'm not sure what the issue is here.
@shinka1y234 Masculinity is defined by the male sex hormones like testosterone. This masculinizes the fetus during pregnancy. Les testosterone exposure will lead to a less masculine boy being born, in the worst case with a micro penis. Exposure during puberty masculinizes the male body and mind further. At the end, the body and mind should now be so masculinized getting a partner should be no big deal, sperm production should be healthy, sex drive too, the parents should have given the man enough life skills and social skills to find a partner and procreate.
@shinka1y234 that is the law but women in Iran break it on so many occasions and no one gives them any trouble for it. if you ask me women have too much freedom here. and they manipulate the rules like instead of covering their hair they just put a really small scarf on their heads which they take off in so many places like when they're driving a car
@Britantic yeah there have been a couple of them but they were politically opposing the regime. you can see women without their hijab in many public places in Iran. those women weren't arrested for just removing their hijab. they instead protested the whole islamic regime which is why they were arrested but all of them were treated very leniently and were let go after a short time. that's why i'm saying women have too much freedom here. they break the laws and still are free. imagine if a man had protested the regime. would he be free to go? that's why feminism in countries like mine would only make life more unfair for men. women have enough privileges as it is
Sorry but in iran men have definetely more rights and you are complaining about women who taking their hijab off? So what. These rules are sexist and stupid
This is not feminism. This is about human rights. Men should protest then if they get treated bad instead of following the rules blindly and being afraid of the regime
@shinka1y234 "Men should protest then if they get treated bad instead of following the rules blindly and being afraid of the regime" exactly. that's why i'm against feminism because one of the reasons men are treated unfairly is because of feminist ideology which has leaked into our culture. the ideology which gives all the attention to women and ignores men. but to answer why it's wrong that these women oppose hijab and islam i should say these rules were accepted by the people of this country and a lot of people still support islam and if someone doesn't like that, they can move to another place. i'ts not okay for these people to try and impose their own lifestyle on other people. that's not freedom and women don't have such right to defend in the first place. i'm not bothered by the fact that women take off their hijab. someone brought it up and i just explained it to them. and the reason men do not defend themselves is because of the gynocentric line of thought that is instilled in men all over the world, not just iran, from an early age which teaches them that they should sacrifice their convenience and happiness for the sake of women. i'm against that kind of thinking and i'm against feminism which is the product of such thinking. feminism is just a cult for masochistic, privileged women who feel entitled to everyone and everything to feel better about themselves. it's natural that a woman who doesn't have anything special to do because the men in their lives do everything for them to feel worthless and incapable. feminism gives these women a reason to feel influential.
@morrowlow politic and religion should be seperated. You can live your religion for yourself but can't force religion on other people. And it is not that easy to move to another country. I thought islam is a friendly religion that does not force people to do something. Look at turkey. The number of atheists is increased rapidly since erdogan regimes who try to islamize the country. We know have 8 million atheists. So you can't force religion. And you say people whant it that way. If people in iran wants it that way, why so many women want to takes off the hijab? So these women are the part of the society and we see that this part of the society does not like islamic rules. I agree with you at some points but does not agree with forcing the religionon others
@shinka1y234 but then the other side is also forcing their lifestyle on religious people. you cannot separate politics from religion because religion is a set of ideas that religious people want to live by. even atheists have beliefs that govern their lives. so under no circumstance can conservative and liberal people live together without some conflict. it's either the liberals who impose their ideas on conservative people like in the US or it's the other way. and i don't want to live in a place where i'll be persecuted for my beliefs which has already happened to an extent in my country. Islam is friendly in the sense that you're not forced to accept it as your religion but you cannot publicly defy it either in an Islamic country
But islam dont force women to wear a hijab. It is their decisions. So it is not islamic. Nobody stop you practicising your religions. And how do others force their lifestyles on religious people? You know you are not different than others if you force your religion on others? That is not democracy, thst is brainwashing and manipulating
It doesn't really. the word feminism should be so strongly used. The word equality should however be used in its place. Feminism, is a word that sets female apart from men. Sure men and woman are different sexes but in terms of how we live are life and the options available for human beings, we should be all be represented as equal. That's freedom. Freedom doesn't take gender into consideration. It is meant for humankind as a whole. Gender is used to describe your physical identity, your sexual preference, your DNA, and your health. Seperating one from the other in any other area is not beneficial to either gender. That being said, it's the way things should be- not necessarily the way things turned out to be, and I understand the need to use the word feminism. However at the end of the day, I think it giving off the wrong messege. We're not correcting the need for the movement by supporting something geared towards the theory of woman's equal rights. We're allowing it to remain comparable to the rights of a man. The word itself says we believe to have either less right or more rights.. to have equal rights would be to say human rights.. I know that the word would not exist if it didn't need to exist. And men have created that need, woman didn't place lesser rights upon themselves. But we shouldn't have to pay the price and prove our equality because men throughout history have landed us to do so. Men should be the ones fighting for the equality females deserve. There is nothing that makes anyone superior to another by being born as one instead of another when there is a 50/100 chance you could have been born as the other.. evolution has not created this superiority complex in the minds of men, it was done by those who's minds allow it. And it's playing god. No sorry douche bags who believe they have the right to more rights then a woman. You are not god. And all you've proved is that you, (not your race, your gender or anything other then you as a singled out person) have an unsuperior mind.
It doesn’t. Feminism has been around for decades and has done nothing to help men. Most of the stuff they claim is to “help” men is misguided since they don’t know nor care about what men actually want. They constantly shame masculinity, try to force what they think we want onto us and get confused when we reject it. If they truly cared about men, they would ask us what we want, respect our masculinity and invest efforts into trying to appease our true wishes.
As for male feminists, they are deluding themselves, they are deceived into believing that the 4th wave feminists actually care about them but in reality they are nothing more than propaganda tools. Eventually the 4th wave feminists turn on them due to the fact that they are pressured into portraying the feminist version of the “ideal male” and when they slip up, the feminists come down hard on these guys.
Furthermore, 4th wave feminism doesn’t help women either. It harms women because it tries to force women suppress who they are in order to be more masculine. It’s kind of ironic, they are actually considering femininity to be weak. When in reality femininity can be strong.
For these reasons, many people don’t consider themselves feminists, it doesn’t follow it’s on paper definition.
Feminism helps men by pointing out how they are all still responsible for the way women are treated, because of something that happened 5 generations ago.
I don’t think most feminists think that rape is still legal and such. But feminism tries to focus on the social effect these laws had on some members of our society. So in a way, feminist has a retrospective focus, yes, but only in the sense that it is investigating the ripple effect these old rules had on society.
Actually I was thinking more on the side of gender equality, of which i am a supporter. I work in a company that pays women the same as men for the same job. I find on this point feminist groups are stuck in the dark ages. So tell me am I speaking bollocks because i answered the original question, or because im a man?
But feminism includes gender equality? As well as more covert issues such as sexual harassment. Laws on their own don’t guarantee to stop discrimination, since much of society functions on unspoken rules that are a direct result of culture. For example, just because your employer pays you the same as your female coworker doesn’t mean that he doesn’t also feel like he has a right to inappropriately touch her thigh because she is wearing a skirt, or a bit of make up, because in his head a woman is inviting physical contact just by putting make up on her face. Some men genuinely believe that something as simple as wearing a skirt is a clear signal that she is interested, some men also believe that women play hard to get and a ‘no’ is actually a ‘yes’. So where do you think this sort of a mix up eventually leads to? Sure, we can make laws to combat sexual harassment, but only so many cases will be caught in that net. With things like sexual harassment, it is difficult to prove, and often the perpetrator is out the door before you even realise what has happened. Feminism tries to tackle things like this by changing the opinions of the public. So people no longer deem it acceptable to sexually abuse women or blame women for being sexually abused.
Ok, but do you see the problem? Why is the victim the one required to move away. People nowadays still treat sexual assault as a minor issue. Victim blaming is still very common. Sure, it is against the law. But when so many people don’t believe it to be a big deal, no real actions are taken and people suffer.
Feminisms does campaign for men’s rights also. The idea is that men and women are different but equal (well that is one of the subtypes of feminism). Most feminists I know do think that there are major issues that need to be tackled in regards to men’s mental health. For example, things like toxic masculinity, which stems from social pressures on men to always put up with shit. Even things like women campaigning for diaper changing facilities to be removed from women’s toilets is beneficial to men. Many dads voiced their issue with all diaper changing cabins being inside women’s toilets. Literally so many issues that feminism aims to tackle automatically benefits men. Things like the man no longer needing to be the sole breadwinner, so less pressure is placed on his shoulders, is something feminism is interested in. It is almost like women are cashing in some of their traditional benefits they used to receive for just being female for a set of different rights which also benefit men.
@victoriaxoxo No feminists are advocating shelters for abused men, and both the USA and Canada refuse to fund the creation of an organization to make them, even though 40% of abuse victims are MEN. Sure, feminism got rid of gender roles, but that would also benefit them as well, wouldn't it? This is the exact reason I asked this reason.
@victoriaxoxo The victim is needed to move away or seek power from a higher power because doing nothing is unproductive and will leave to repeated occurrence of this.
I think it’s helping men who aren’t interested in traditional gender roles to become more comfortable defining their own lifestyle and masculinity.
If a man wants to cook for his wife, he does it with a smile.
If a man wants to be a stay at home dad, he does so happily.
The film The Mask You Live In was a good effort on the part of feminists to explore the narrow ideals of masculinity and how it’s harmful to boys and men, and what can be done in an effort to improve on that.
I agree with your first part, I totally give you the credit for that one, but how we act is just in our nature. This is how I am, and how I want to be.
Cooking dosen't have to do with anything that claims equality or real equality for that matter, it's a survival skill for more than 10000 years no matter gender. hope you realize that.
The mask you live in was pretty funny in that I basically disproves toxic masculinity. In an endeavor that set out to describe toxic masculinity, it inadvertently illustrated that feminist interpretation of men is ridiculous from the outset.
The narrow ideals of masculinity built the world you now live in. Traditional masculinity isn't harmful. What is harmful is feminists using it as a weapon to shame men
Didn't you know that an alpha is a low status individual also a selfish insecure loser that has a need to control people to lift themselves and to be secure in difference to an omega 😉
I’m a feminist, one of my female friends isn’t. Short summary of my relationships in comparison to hers:
She thinks a man should be the breadwinner, monthly she depletes her bfs finances without feeling two ways about it.
I think that relationships should be 50:50. I always go out my way to get my boyfriend gifts, take him on a holiday and do whatever to make him feel special. Rent is also 50:50.
She expects her man to defend her in any situation. She literally calls him to beat up gangs of guys just for looking at her?
My boyfriend isn’t anymore responsible for my health and well-being that my average friend. I don’t expect him to defend me anymore than he should expect me to defend him. He is also a human being, his well-being is more important than my ego, therefore I wouldn’t risk putting him in a dangerous situations just because he is a male.
She has proclaimed before that if she had a husband and walked into the room to see him crying, she would slap him. He is a man and can’t be a ‘pussy’ and sit there and cry. She confirmed that she would do it even if he is crying over his mothers death.
When I see my boyfriend crying, naturally I will comfort him and inquire into what made him sad. Perhaps I’ll make him food to make him feel better. Not that long ago my boyfriend felt blue because he had an iffy day at work, I ordered him a pizza and we stayed up till late gaming.
My friend spends her days doing nothing and expecting her guy to pick up after her.
I carry my own weight. In fact if I happen to have more experience, at say filling out tax forms, I’ll also help him. That way everything will be way more efficient.
So because you have a shitty friend all nonfeminists are like this? No, the vast majority of people who aren't feminists (The majority of women btw) aren't like this however look at feminists the nice ones are the minority.
Well, sounds like your friend has a very misguided view on relationships, but I wouldn't attribute that to "not enough feminism in her life" (I'm paraphrasing based on inference ofc). That said, if what you just described is how you view feminism, then more power to you. Not all feminists would see it the same way, though. Personally it just sounds to me like you have an emotionally mature outlook on relationships, regardless of whether you identify as feminist or not. Emotional maturity is the constant in all healthy relationships, if you happen to be emotionally mature and also a feminist, then fine by me. But a feminist who is emotionally immature will often do a lot more damage than a non-feminist who's immature.
But I am kinda splitting hairs a little, what you're doing is obviously working, and I applaud you for not just dumping all life's burdens onto your man's shoulders like some women often do. For most men this is enough in a partner, we'll love such women regardless of whether they hold up the feminist placards at local women's protests. But a woman who attends those protests and DOESN'T treat her man in this manner will be viewed with suspicion and even contempt.
@SomeGuyCalledTom perhaps not all aspects of the said behaviour stem from feminism, that is true. But I do sincerely believe that much of the reason why my friend acts the way she does stems from sexism. Sexism towards men that is. If she did ever care to study the rationale behind first and second wave feminism, she would understand that it emphasises equality between the sexes. That is not to say that someone can’t think of themselves as equal to the opposite sex without declaring themselves feminist. After all we live in a society where most people are to some extent money driven, but I doubt most would consider calling themselves capitalists. I do, however, claim that feminism, for me personally, has helped me understand and treat the opposite with more equality. Hence why can’t I proclaim that, in my opinion, the positive aspects of feminism are such and such?
@bubblezzzz this whole thread is based on generalisations. Didn’t you below comment that feminism nowadays is a bunch of men haters? Isn’t that generalising feminists, eh?
That's a fair analysis, and the version of feminism you speak of (1st/2nd wave as you put it) is the version I can really get behind. I also realise that people can live according to principles fought for and won by previous generations of feminists. I do still feel like much of 3rd/ 4th wave feminism has strayed from those ideals, even though it sometimes pays lip service to "equality". But those founding principles of gender equality, I can 100% get behind, and they are still needed in many parts of the world. In many African countries FGM is still used and encouraged, for instance. And in other places, women can be executed for aborting a pregnancy from rape, or "honour killed" by her own parents for the "crime" of being raped. Truly abhorrent shit. Needs sorting out. Whether the people sorting it out call themselves "feminists" or not doesn't really matter, as you point out. Gender equality should be a basic human right. Just some of the more ideologically-driven 4th wave feminists are fighting over shit like "microaggressions" and "manspreading", because gender equality already was achieved in their country, and so their wheels are kinda spinning, and they want a new "enemy" to paint a target on to give them a sense of purpose. If more post-modern feminists stopped attacking men and started getting back to those grassroots ideals of fighting for the truly disempowered... then more men would give feminism more serious treatment and consideration.
All said and done though, I'm watching all this as an observer. Feminazis and alt-right trolls yelling over each other on twitter and whatnot is kinda just funny to watch at this point. It's just that sometimes, all that noise spills over and affects ordinary working people in a negative way.
And just to clarify, I think it's great you got positive takeaways from feminism that helpd you relate better with men. Whichever feminists you've been listening to must have their heads on pretty straight.
Honestly, I do kinda wonder if "feminism" even has meaning as a term, since in many ways feminism is so fractured today. For some it is a political ideology, for others a set of principles for equal treatment, for others it's an excuse to hate on men, for others it's a reason to make peace with men. There's no one "right" version of feminism, just as "capitalism" as a term doesn't say much about how a country's financial system is actually structured in practical terms. A capitalist society with corporate tax loopholes and a welfare state is very different than a purely market-led society with zero hand-outs and "do or die" mentality.
@SomeGuyCalledTom honestly, feminism that preaches things like castration or segregation is nothing but sexism dressed up as feminism. Feminism is definitely needed in many parts of the world. And I still believe that even in the West there is still fighting to be done. Stereotypes and gender roles are still pushed onto both men and women. That is not to say that people can’t choose to partake in traditional relationships and follow stereotypical career paths but it would be pleasant if they were allowed to start from scratch without any presumptions about one gender being predisposed at doing better in certain fields.
I very much agree with what you said about feminism being very stratified. I have myself witnessed feminists argue over the right ‘type’ of feminism, just the way people argue about what capitalism is or should be. But as you had mentioned previously, feminism for me had a transformative effect, helping me relate to the opposite sex.
yeah, makes sense, @victoriaxoxo. I generally take a 'functional' stance on big trends like feminism. If it serves a useful function with a net positive benefit for the intended recipients, and doesn't take away anyone else's rights or freedoms, then I support it-- or at least, I don't oppose it actively. If it serves a negative or destructive or manipulative function, then I call it what it is-- "bollocks" lol. "Feminism" can go either way, given how many "versions" of it exist.
Because I don’t think one excludes the other. They stem from the same idea. In fact, earlier forms of feminist are literally = egalitarianism. And I’m not ashamed from identifying with feminism because a couple of a**holes made it out to be something else. In fact, sometimes, I use it as a way to judge character. When I tell someone that I’m a feminist, without going into the buts and ifs, their facial expressions will usually tell me how much they studied feminism, and how easily they are moved by tabloids. And this I can use to estimate other characteristics.
I think the only way to understand how feminism helps men is to first educate yourself on politics and sociology. Without the awareness of how gender is conditioned, the effects of conditioned "toxic masculinity" on mens health and how that plays out socially, or even a certain value perspective on how humans of different sexes should relate to one another, you probably won't buy it regardless of what is "proven."
You might think fathers beating the tears out of their sons eyes (figuratively or literally) and teaching them to repress all non-aggressive emotions and view women as objects so they can go on to become adults with intimacy issues isn't a big deal. Psychologists and leftists do. It just depends on whether you acknowledge the problems that an ultra masculine archetype can present to most men. It hurts women more, absolutely, but does hurt them as well.
there's also the evidence of what an added huge chunk of a labor force does for economies and supporting families. While some men are up to the task of the pressure of supporting families on their own, not all men want that burden. Some men would rather the woman also work to provide for the family as well. That may not be you, but it sure as hell helps lessen the economic burden of a whole damn family, especially in expensive cities. It also expands opportunities of life possibilities. This is especially true for non-wealthy people. More educational and employment opportunities probably helps a lot of families of married couples avoid poverty. One income for the average man only goes so far.
Less conservative ideas on sex. This depends on the person. You may be ultra conservative, so maybe not you. But for men that want women to feel confident and okay with having sex with them before marriage as a cultural norm, kind of a big deal.
There have been other specific legislative victories you can research. For example, the FBI changed the definition of rape to include men after the "Rape is Rape" campaign by the Feminist Majority. There was some drinking law that was based on gender stereotypes. The Family and Medical Leave Act is an example of many victories for women that also benefited men by default. The priority was women, as they are usually caretakers in families but the Act itself gives 12 weeks of time off from work for all workers who need to take care of a loved one. The Department of Defense ended discriminatory policies that barred women from combat roles, which takes some of the burden off men in military combat. And one of the largest ways feminists have helped men is for all non-white men, as feminists have historically fought side by side with abolitionist and civil rights movements fighting for the end of slavery and civil rights for minorities. Pretty sure that helped a lot of men.
There are literally a ton of other ways that opportunities and justice for women, as a central goal for feminism, have helped men throughout American history and abroad and how it can help men Although, having a defensive "prove it" posturing when you ask the question kind of betrays a lack of a genuine quest for knowledge and shows more of a willful ignorance and lack of education.
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Also radical feminists work with many men to fight for economic justice. the victories they have accomplished, whether campaigning for progressive candidates that are doing great things for everyone struggling with health care, economic issues. housing, etc or fighting for specific policies that work for the majority of people, help men by default.
i hate feminists but i have to admit you lot make great entertainment when you lot spew this nonsense with a serious tone. paternity leave only benefits the mothers not the fathers who take the leave. and i don't care the FBI changed the definition of rape because the Duluth model still exists and it was created by feminists. and letting women in the army in combat roles has lowered the standards for enlisting soldiers which results in more burden on male soldiers. because now they can't rely on other competent male soldiers instead they're left with a bunch of little girls. if feminists really cared about men they would have addressed all those false rape accusers.
I wish that you hadn’t replied to this anonymously. You shared many well-thought/written statements while providing information regarding each. You seem well-versed, and it’s be great to pick your brain about such things with genuine, open, and forthcoming feedback. You get an up-vote from me. Feel free to send me a message if you’d like to share further. Thanks for your contribution.
I’m also curious to hear your thoughts upon why many females commented rather negatively, often in simplistic fashions lacking substance, upon feminism. Why is this, is this simply due to a knowledge gap (versus a genuine contrary perspective), or what? This is quite fascinating.
1. Feminism helps men by number making it okay for men to show and feel emotions a. k. a the term toxic masculinity which is not masculinity the two are not the same there’s toxic masculinity and just normal masculinity and the difference is one puts you in a box and the other is freeing a man to actually be human. 2. The MeToo movement is for men as well and a lot of feminist want to raise awareness of boys being victims of sexual abused as well and a different kind of oversexulization than woman. How many times has a little boy been raped or molested by a grown woman and society applauded him or made little boys feel like shit for speaking up. How many little boys still to this day don’t say anything because their scared their going to say “weak” which is also a deviating affect of toxic masculinity 3. Bisexuality for men is completely viewed differently than bisexuality for woman and that’s a problem. 4. Courts siding with woman when their are toxic mothers and a household should not be seen in roles between the feminine and masculine because that is a huge problem in court because a mom is seen as a better option for the kids to stay with vs the father like courts will purposely try and make it workout in the moms favor 5. Abuse towards men And how a lot of it isn’t reported because once again toxic masculinity and being seen as weak. Also men defending themselves lands them in jail which I think is super fucked.
Kill all men , men need to be taught not to rape, too many men in high positions, changing words like fireman , policeman, chairman, manpower and inventing made up ones like womyn , herstory. Saying that men have no right to an opinion about abortion. Proposing a 90% reduction in male population. Julie bindel proposing that men be put into concentration camps , saying " when they start behaving like humans, maybe we'll look at you".
Sarah Silverman saying " sorry, it's a boy" to a pregnant woman in a phone service ad.
Gillettes ad about men.
Men this , men that.
This isn't helping men. It's blatant hatred of them
1. Meh, I doubt men some feminists to tell us we can show emotions; how much a man shows emotion is dictated largely by temperament, not by feminist's encouragement. Some men are quite sensitive and emotionally attuned by their nature (I consider myself somewhat like this although can also be very logical and stoic, it shifts from day to day really). Other men are very much the strong silent type, and no feminist is gonna convince them to be any other way. That would be like a man telling a woman "stop being so emotional!", only feminists have reversed it. If women are allowed to be emotional and dramatic, then men are allowed to be logical and stoic.
2. If there are feminists out there campaigning for this, then I'm glad. But the MeToo movement overall is becoming increasingly anti-male. I don't even blame the garden variety feminist, who likely believes she's just helping victims gain a voice. But there are some sociopathic women out there who are exploiting the power of Metoo to advance their careers... by destroying that of a man's.
4. Sorry, I'm confused as to what you're saying here. Do you mean to say that feminists are trying to change the court system so it DOESN'T favour women automatically? Or are you saying that single mother SHOULD be given preference over the fathers?
5. I agree that a lot of abuse against men isn't reported or convicted or even admissible in court. But I don't see any evidence that some ephemeral concept like "toxic masculinity" is to blame. This is just shifting the blame back onto men; it's saying that there's a "wrong version of masculinity" at the root of all men's issues. Why not look at how women can contribute to those issues? Why not look at the inherent corruption of a legal system that "protects the female" above all else-- BECAUSE FEMINISTS SPECIFICALLY CAMPAIGNED FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF SUCH A LEGAL PRECEDENT?
Actually its women not men who call the men weak! women want men to be supermen hence the common saying "I like alpha males" because women don't like weak men they actually want hard emotionless men and when a man shows sadness pain and tears he's seen as weak and she loses all respect for him
I’m gonna put it one last time there is toxic masculinity and also let me add it no it did not start with woman that historically is innaccurate woman never held power like that to actually control gender roles and gender roles started after war. Also I wouldn’t that since I know most woman do want their man to show emotions why would they not? Also back to the men getting raped and it being a toxic masculinity issue yes it is men applaud little boys for getting raped or molested and last time I checked men seem to be the only gender proud to have slept with a grown woman at 13 even though it’s definitely rape. Look at the little boy who fucking married and got his teacher pregnant like no one though this shit was wrong and it was because he’s a boy only feminist and woman were trying to call it out while men said men are different and we like it blah blah blah
Also the metoo movement is not anti male is anti toxic masculinity you as a man shouldn’t have problem if you respect woman and don’t bother them just because you think their attractive. There’s a time and place for that and also if most rape cases are reported by woman and done by men than I don't know what to tell you that’s just the way things are. Also I don’t think there’s just feminist is so who and how exactly would that work?
That’s why I think men should stop thinking their just supposed to naturally want sex no matter what and telling each other that and also report things when it happens
Well that's true a lot of guys do that but that isn't masculinity its just being a degenerate those men aren't masculine don't confuse those men with masculinity because they sure as hell aren't
But the thing is men who do it tend to use the I’m just a man excuse and use that to pretty much do things like that and overall that line of it’s pretty much in a mans nature is what I mean there’s nothing wrong with masculinity at all but just things like that, that can be associated with masculinity due to the it’s man nature line and such
Except its not a mans nature they are just twisting and contorting it its a mans nature to want sex that's true but not being fucked by a grown woman when their still a kid they say that because it amuses their fantasy saying its toxic masculinity is to characterize them as normal men there's a saying don't generalize a whole gender based on the actions of a few these aren't your a typical men just a few idiotic individuals
This was the norm though and tbh I don't know how far ahead we are from that but if you want I can take a poll on here? i have a strong feeling a lot of men still genuinely think like this, I know there’s good men but honestly majority would think like that and you would seen the nice men get called gay or something for speaking. Also this was a whole internet sensation lol I think you can still look up the video look up this one isn’t it but if similar case https://youtu.be/k2xZlng0f34 like look through these comments a lot of people are blaming the husband and saying he didn’t give her enough sex and someone said he later died from high fives from all his buddies just pretty foul shit honestly
https://youtu.be/x3lqA20-X7E look at this bs now 🤮 lol I swear this was really majority men’s mentality before feminism started getting more noticed by society
it kinda just seems like your argument boils down to "men are the source of all of men's problems", and yet in the same beat you support the legal system favouring single mothers over the fathers, just because of their gender, that's literally an anti-male position to hold. So I still don't see how any of this connects with "feminism benefiting men".
My argument is exactly as I've laid it out. If anything, you're the one who's brought hebephile schoolteachers and male rapists into the discussion, as if those issues are somehow intrinsic to "feminism helping men". So I'm not sure where you and I are failing to find common ground, as we seem to be having two different conversations at this point.
Its amusing an easy to have a laugh about it when your hearing it and seeing it on the internet but when it comes to real life you'll take it more seriously and go for it create the poll when you see things on the internet its just funny I think every boy has fantasized about getting it on with his teacher your young full of testosterone and she's a fully developed woman your bound to find it attractive until you actually get your wish your now in a room with her and she's naked and a lot bigger than you and suddenly you start realizing this isn't fantast anymore this is actually happening and you start asking yourself do I really actually want this? So you can laugh about it when its a fantasy but when it comes down to it in real life peoples reactions will be different because their taking it seriously now
@SomeGuyCalledTom I’m not gonna sit here and waste time trying that here Oh well Tom guess feminism doesn’t help men 🤷🏼♀️ And @cocalaadict yes sure we all have fantasies of that one good looking teacher when we’re young but normalizing a teacher taking advantage of a child is what’s foul and yes when it becomes reality that’s different and it’s not this little cute kid fantasy it’s actually a very disgusting and foul situation in real an adult taking advantage is what’s really going on
Yeah I agree with you 100% it is pretty sick but my point here is your saying the people agreeing with it are a result in toxic masculinity when I disagree its just a few people who don't represent the whole I don't believe in toxic masculinity there's just decent people and non decent people because toxic masculinity isn't part of masculinity its just individuals
@RoxiFromTheDark "I know most woman do want their man to show emotions why would they not?"
Why are you arguing with men's lived experiences? Us men know what its like to be men, you need to listen to us and accept our stories. I've never met one woman who wanted me to open up and be emotional. In fact a few times i did even just a little bit and women immediately put me down and disrespected me. That is why i would never cry or talk about my problems to a woman ever again. I've also had other dudes gfs come try to hook up with me after they saw their boyfriend cry. This is all fact. Other men are telling you similar things. This is us opening up ever so slightly about our problems. Prove all women aren't the same and empathize with us and admit this is a problem and caused by women or get defensive and prove women do jump on a man's case whenever we try to open up. Now is your chance to walk the talk and back up what you are saying.
#MeToo is an ideal "feminist movement". it's waiting for someone else to make the first move, then herd mentality. it's basically saying "I can't do it myself".
@cocalaaddict yes but it comes historically from gender roles created after the war and woman were not in power but I do agree either ways woman do enforce it and it is wrong
@bamesjond I can sympathize with you and everything but the same could be argued woman complain about men not being emotionally open and we know we’ve all heard this before but regardless this came from gender roles the idea that a man should be emotional started somewhere and was enforced by everyone but it’s wrong
Like I said its just some individuals it dosent matter who started what when and that's assuming your information is even correct those individuals aren't part of masculinity plus I see far more women putting down men rather then men putting down men some do but its mostly women they call them beta males which essentially means your worthless because all women are into strong men what they like to call alpha males so no actually I think its women putting down men not men so much putting down men
It actually does matter and assuming it’s even correct? Look up history where gender roles come from and no woman did not hold power and I would have to disagree with that I see guys put down guys too especially in groups of friends calling each other fathers for not wanting whatever is seen as manly in the moment and guys are also more physically violent with each other because men have dominance issues and okay I agree with woman still saying stuff to but where do you think woman learn it from to start, men we figure out quickly men do not like being seen as “weak”,
The guys in this thread are 100% correct, please understand, this is our daily reality. We would LOVE to be all vulnerable and mushy with our women. But when we do, they lose respect for us and potentially even cuckold/ cheat on us/ start inviting sexual opportunities from other men. You wanna know why men are strong and stoic and don't show weakness around women? Because WOMEN PUNISH THAT WEAKNESS-- even if they also complain about "men not opening up" to their girlfriends. Yes this is a generalisation, I have met women who actually value more sensitive traits in a man. But showing weakness to a woman almost never benefits a man in the long run, and he almost always comes to regret it. You can deflect all you like by saying its coz of "toxic masculinity", but fact is, women know instinctively that they wield immense power as the decider of who gets to mate with her, and who doesn't. We also know that women like strong alpha male providers. So it's not so hard to conceive of an evolutionary adaptation strategy... in which women selectively punish male weakness to ultimately weed it out from the 'tribe' over generations. I doubt women do it consciously, hence they say in public "I want a sweet nice sensitive man who tells me all his insecurities and fears". Because that's what a "normal, nice" member of society is supposed to say. But their responses to male vulnerability, for the most part, do not support what they say in public. Stoicism is a male reproductive strategy in response to women's tendency to punish deviation from the "strong, stoic" ideal. Women reap what they sow every time they punish male vulnerability, and then wander why men stop opening up altogether.
Sigh arguing with you is pointless even with the evidence sitting in front of your face your still denying it and insisting men are bad and quite frankly I'm tired of talking to a wall good day
What do you even mean "gender roles came from men"? Human behaviour didn't just emerge from a vaccum in the mid-20th century you know. And frankly, the post-WWII period in Europe saw more peace and prosperity for men AND women than was ever known in any other time (well, until the Vietnam war, I suppose..). And you know why we were able to enjoy all that peace and prosperity? Because MEN fought and died in the millions so that *actual* tyranny could never take over their respective home countries, and those of their neighbors. You could try being grateful to what men did in the 20th century, every freedom you enjoy today can be directly attributed to their sacrifices. Also, the fact you ignored all my points about evolutionary predictors of male/ female behaviour differences... and are still pushing this "men invented gender roles" theory... tells me you have a very narrow interpretation of history. Those feminist bloggers who harp on about "1950s gender stereotypes" as if they're the birthplace of patriarchal tyranny... are focusing on a drop in an ocean. A century's worth of societal change and supposed gender type-casting... is nothing compared to the billions of years in which the human organism-- and its genetic ancestors-- grew and adapted to become what it is today. /ctd.
Gender differences exist because WE exist. The human organism replicates itself by mating with an opposite-gender version of itself. This has been so since the dawn of man. So guess what-- those with XX chromosomes develop behavioural patterns that help them optimally reproduce with those carrying XY chromosomes, and vice versa. These days, we understand those behavioural differences through the lens of "femininity" and "masculinity". These distinctions help us to understand ourselves, and our place with the social world we inhabit. But to say that all this is null and void, and that men just "invented" these behaviours in the 20th century, and demanded that women conform to them, is absurd. It's just absurd. I'm sorry, there's no other word for it. Sure, the 1950s had some cringey adverts for ironing boards and washing detergent, and women had to campaign for the vote, and didn't have full equality in the workplace at the time. But there are biological constants running through human behaviour, and social engineering can only supplant them temporarily, it cannot scrub them out entirely. Women will act as women feel compelled to act, as will men-- just as it's always been, and always will be. There's no need to attribute this to some widespread act of patriarchal social engineering.
Feminism is supposed to "help" men by attempting to deconstruct the roles of male and female (in a postmodernist fashion), in an effort to synthesize the qualities of what makes each tick. For example, it might have explained how men's assumed stoic, calm nature is a societally-imposed gender role because men are the hunters of the community and are expected to handle all dilemmas that require strategy and risk-management, while women's more emotional nature is attributed to their expectations as mothers, who are to nurture the young of the next generation into healthy, well-adjusted adults equipped to handle the rigors of life.
Notice I said "supposed", because feminism has morphed from a philosophical look at elements of human nature into a quasi-religion that divides the genders into the roles of oppressor and victim. Any concept of helping men that feminism was ever to deliver has now become diluted and contaminated by a cult of dogmatic allegiance to thought conformity and tribalism.
All of this is a really long-winded way of saying "it doesn't".
P. S. To any person downvoting me, show me at least 5 examples where modernism feminism produced a positive outcome for a man. Because the random, odd show of kindness by one woman or man who define themselves as a "feminist" is probably not a big enough sample size to represent "feminism" properly, especially since feminists are increasingly-vocal minority in the "we need diversity because of inclusion" crowd, where diversity is desired, not of different minds and interests and skin color is just a happy coincidence, but because it means "we get more people who don't look stereotypically [insert normative race or gender here, usually white and male]". There's nothing wrong with diversity, but diversity for its own sake is appeal to equal result, not equal opportunity.
It doesn't help men in general. It only pretends to.
You'll notice that most feminists talk about toxic masculinity and freeing men up to be more feminine, but that's not really about helping men at all. It's about emasculating them.
These same people are the first to call men whiners and losers when they complain about the things that men actually give a shit about. Most men dont give a shit about the toxic masculinity bollocks or crying. They care about the way men are treated in divorce, child custody, double standards when it comes to domestic abuse. Feminists won't do anything about any of that, in fact feminists cause a lot of problems there by lying about such things, and preventing mens groups from being able to help men.
If they cared about men they wouldn't try to do that, and they wouldn't mock and shame men for talking about these things. But they do, all the time. They always come with this argument that only a small minority of radical feminists hate men, but the reason they get this reputation for hating men is because of the things they say and do themselves. They just seem to lack self-awareness and they believe their own bullshit.
So men in general do not benefit from feminism. Some men do though, not for the reasons feminists think. With feminism came hook-up culture. Feminists were influenced to believe that being promiscuous is empowering. Now for any man who is confident and even moderately attractive casual sex is easy to get. Players get to play because of feminism.
Paid paternity leave? Is that a thing? I don't know. That might be the only thing of substance I can think of. The only things I see feminists do are complain about things and shame people.
Also, I think this quote from one of the female users here sums the 'benefits' of feminism for men quite nicely. "We do not shame men for being soft or feminine. More men are getting the opportunity to express their feminine sides in the age that we live in. [...] I'd never be in a relationship with an effeminate guy myself, however I don't support discriminating them either."
So basically, they support our right to be emotional, but wouldn't date us because of it. Oh boy, so much incentive to share my feelings. Quick, where's the nearest soapbox so I can vent. Don't forget to bring the kleenex, I'm gonna need it. Pleeeease. If sharing my feelings comes at the cost of being in a relationship, then I'm gonna cork that shit in a bottle and chuck it in the ocean.
Some other women suggest it liberates us from the shackles of our gender roles as men. Yet how many women claim that it's a man's job to pursue and initiate and pay for shit, and so on? Because if he's truly interested in a woman, he would. Right? I've seen that so many times on this site over the years. Clearly we are not quite as liberated as some women let on. Sure, we have choice of not pursuing and taking a more passive role, letting the women come to us. But we can all predict how that will turn out for most guys.
I heard that it apparently freed men from their gender roles (a change we didn’t want) and allows them to cry (I don’t think that’s true) and even if any of that is true, I don’t think it is enough to make amends for the damage feminists have done against men. Examples include: shutting down any conferences that supports men’s rights, the rise of false accusations of sexual assault, being able to rape a man, get pregnant and sue the victim of child support (Hermesmann v. Seyer), completely remove any legal possibility that a man can be a victim of domestic violence (Duluth model), say you can’t be sexist against men and think all men are rapists (rape culture) (btw RAINN, the USA’s largest anti-sexual assault organization, denies the existence of rape culture. See their letter to the White House in 2014)
Now I know that you are going to say something like “but feminism is for equality, it says so in the dictionary” or “those aren’t real feminists”. First of all, actions speak louder than words and the same dictionary never implies that women are the only victims of sexism. Second, isn’t the very core of the ideology that we live in a society that benefits men over women (aka patriarchy)? If so, then any acknowledgement that men don’t have it so great would completely invalidate your movement. You are also evoking the no true Scotsman fallacy for that reason.
I support equal rights and that is why I am NOT a feminist. If feminism was ever for equality, it certainly isn’t now. I’d rather support equal rights than engage in damage control and defend the reputation of that ideology.
It doesn't help them at all. Let's look at 2 things feminism does and has done so far and then look at the effect it has on men.
One :Many companies and even governments around the world have policies geared toward if not outright stating that they will reach a certain ratio of female employees or members of parliament.
Another: Universities have lowered the entrance requirements for females to study certain subjects lower than what is for males.
So what does this mean for men? It means less jobs are available to men and it means less University places are also available and by an unfair advantage.
Essentially what feminism is doing to society is forcing a world where only the very best men can get jobs or places at University and the majority of men are left behind to likely live fruitless lives of poverty and or crime. Whereas for women it makes the world theirs where they don't even have to get as good marks to get into University or have as good credentials to get a job.
Oh so feminism helps men but still attacks me for being trans? They keep telling me and I quote "your a man invading our spaces and you put us at risk" at risk for what! Taking a really big shit? "Feminism doesn’t support men!!! And your a just a man pretending to be a woman!!!" Would you like more? Or is that enough to answer your question?
It is better for everybody if you use your gender assigned bathroom, even if you identify as something else. These laws the trans are pushing would allow ANYONE to enter a women's bathroom. This opens the door for perverts and pedos to freely enter without question and would give them the power to cry discrimination if they're asked to leave.
They are lying cunts. Hell feminazis dont even help women. They are getting women fired from stuff like cheerleading and pit girls (car racing). They ruined womens sports by letting in trans. Honestly that is the best part to me. Is that the whole womens movement has been highjacked by men in dresses. Just goes to show you how stupid these pigs are.
@TheFlak38 screw you feelings, trans is not a man or a female its a trans, and they should not compete in male or female sports. Every transman (aka man who thinks he is a girl) will outperform females in said sport. MMA or box can be fatal for female fighting trans. Man is just way to strong for female to compete in sports.
@TheFlak38 you can support whatever you want, doesn't make you any less wrong though. Men-turned-trans women utterly DESTROY female athletes in every competition involving pound-for-pound strength (and by extension, speed and power).
@TheFlak38 in what kind lunyland you are living? Man are way stronger than woman, and if you aren't well you are weak as f**k. Yes im sexist because bout sexes are different, so sue me. Google world records at sports, no woman is stronger nor faster than man.
@TheFlak38 get into a weight lifting session with women then come back to say a man is naturally physically stronger than a woman is true we are made to be stronger but that dosent mean females are a weaker gender we both have our strengths and weaknesses a mans strength is providing and protecting a women's is making children nurturing them and raising then we both have our roles and nobody is saying men are superior
@TheFlak38 so pointing out basic anatomical differences via gender-derived gene expression is sexist now? Must be real airtight in that ideological bubble of yours. But, you know, nice try at using ad hominem to deflect logical arguments you don't know how to refute. Real sharp critical thinking skills there.
Well I don't know if this may be labeled as "feminism" but sometimes traditional roles put too much pressure on men (women too, but in a different way). I want to pay for my own things too, I can treat a guy for dinner too, I don't expect to receive free stuff, get a seat or anything just because I'm a woman.
Actually the woman behind modern feminist is a man hating bitch that tells woman they should be strong, and that they don't need a man to open a door for them and that chivalry is arrogant.
But here's some facts about chivalry for you ladies.
When walking down the street a man should be on her right side closest to the street. Why you ask?
Because in the wild west days people had chamber pots in there upstairs bedrooms. There was an awning over the entrance of most buildings. A woman would walk under the awning and the man would not. So when the people woke up in the morning they threw the contents of their chamber pot out the window. Guess who got covered in shit ladies? Guess who didn't get hit with urine and shit ladies?
Also it was for when horses would run by they would splash mud on the man while she remained clean.
@jiffyjeff1029 If a guy wants to keep the door open for me I'm grateful, but it's not something I'd expect from every guy. Some women expect the guy to do all those gentlemanly things for them and get pissed if not.
Barf. Welcome to attracting broke men and scaring away successful ones. That's what that attitude does. Broke men would love a girl who pays their way. Successful men don't. Im rich, im always paying and i expect to pay for a woman ie not someone busting their ass at a job but someone who cooks and cleans and will make a very attentive mother.
@bamesjond0069 If you like entitled women just bc they have a vagina between their legs, good for you. I hate traditonal men who would lock me inside home.
This wouldn't fit the definition of a modern feminist, but I'm glad you see things this way, it's very reasonable and considerate without being preachy or standoffish. Quite classy, actually.
@jiffyjeff1029 realy? I never knew that, I always walk closest to the curb when with a woman or child so they wouldn't be hit if a car jumped the curb. Funny how the historical explanation for this behaviour contrasts with the modern interpretation.
@pleasestopthis what do you mean "entitled"? Women who embrace a feminine role are rarely entitled. Its usually women who demand to contribute financially who are entitled.
And lmao who the fuck gets locked in a house? You watch too many movies or something and have a very overactive imagination. Why couldn't you leave? So freaking weird.
It doesn't matter if some of their arguments make sense or if some of them don't, the way you see a hefty amount of the people with that mindset go about implementing it (and some interacting with men in general, they way they speak to them, treat them ect), it's harmful to guys interacting with them and not helping them mentally at all is the conclusion I've unfortunately come too.
It helps men during the divorce to get rid of unnecessary stuff they've earned with their hard work, such as money, house, cars etc.
It also helps men to discover more job opportunities (in low-paid, high-risk sectors especially) by denying them higher positions due to pussy quotas.
It helps men to discover new places (such as high security prisons) and kinks (such as forced anal sex in said prison) due to girls nonchalantly suing guys for "rape" whether one was committed or not and status quo "believe her" in courts. Even if a guy miraculously turns out to be an innocent, it helps men to discover the world, as by the time he'll be proven innocent whole city will assume he is guilty, therefore a man will have to move elsewhere.
I did not say that modern feminism is about equality. I also dont think that modern feminism is a good thing. However, what annoyes me is that some whores try to be an antifeminist aka womanhater to get attention by men. They act like a "beta" male who tries to get easy pussy by agreeing with all feminist ideas.
@shinka1y234 Coming from someone assuming men for being butthurt for downvoting their controversies. You're saying you're not a feminist but you demonstrate what they do. Also that's why I said "I hope you don't go too far but I appreciate that."
Yes, they are butthurt men who dislikes everything when it comes to feminism. Not all feminist ideas are bad. Look I dont support the modern feminism but there is nothing wrong with first and second wave of feminism.
If you say hello in a provocative way out of nowhere outside to a stranger, it is a little bit inappriate but to beat up someone for that is too extreme. Just change your environment.
@shinka1y234 "Yes, they are butthurt men who dislikes everything when it comes to feminism." <-- In your assumptions. And my comments and claims gets deleted by feminists a lot just like the anonymous opinion owner on here while they justify im being butthurt that's what they do it but not realizing how that makes them sound. Like trying to dismiss arguments by calling us butthurt thinking that makes them valid in everything.
A quote from you "Butt hurt men disliking hahaha" <-- Also butt hurt feminists about men having such "privilege" without even checking their own, butthurt feminists about men addressing their issues, butthurt feminists using feminism as a blockage for egalitarians which prevents egalitarians from voicing out their ideologies and butthurt feminists feeling the need to call themselves feminists, claiming it's equality and only caring about the label because of their notion that there exist a patriarchy and we're living in a patriarchal world where women are oppressed. And little do you know the opinion owner was indeed not butt hurt for deleting this response from you. (sarcasm)
"Not all feminist ideas are bad." When there is only one. I'm gonna repeat it again. Feminists feeling the need to call themselves feminists, claiming it's equality and only caring about the label because of their notion that there exist a patriarchy and we're living in a patriarchal world where women are oppressed while ignoring the issues faced by men. It's only equality if it benefits them. That's what they mean by equality.
Feminism has done nothing to help men, but it has done a hell of a lot to hurt men, AND women. Let's have a look at the "accomplishments" of feminism:
- Made public schools cater to the needs of girls only and treat boys like defective girls - Made the two genders hate one another - Demonized masculinity - Convinced women they are all victims who can’t survive without help - Misled women into believing they could “have it all” - Made stay-at-home moms feel worthless - Convinced women that anything but vanilla sex was “disrespectful to women” - Told the lie that males and females are the same - Convinced women they are better off raising children without a father - Propped up women by dragging down men and telling them they are worthless - Lied to both genders about what the other gender wants
@SwordShield Thanks bro. They are indeed true facts, but of course it is not politically correct to acknowledge all the negative things feminism has done. Instead, the "correct" thing to do is attribute only positive things to feminism, even if feminism had nothing to do with those things, and we must believe the feminist revisionist "history" even when that "history" is completely inaccurate and not supported by facts.
There are very positive responses for men, yet men are still disliking them. BUT, If someone makes a joke about feminists, or says "NOTHING. FEMINIST HATE MEN". It has 12+ likes.
You have feminists, then you have the radicals. That's in just about any movement or group. Bunching in a whole group because of a handful is bad. "Well they think all men are evil". That's a broad statement.
So, radicals are ge realizing, and some men are generalizing. It's a lose lose.
@Guffrus Me saying dudes are disliking every positive comment and liking everything that says "women are bad", "feminist are bad" is being out of touch.
And yet the radicals seem to control the entire narrative. Why don't moderate feminists speak up more? (There are some here on GaG, in all fairness, and yes sometimes it can be a problem when the moderate voices get downvoted just because we *expect* them to be "radicals in disguise" or something.) I genuinely am curious, because whenever I see a radical spouting off about some bullshit, I never see other feminists call it out, I just see them nod their heads all like "preach it sister!"
Quote: You have feminists, then you have the radicals. That's in just about any movement or group. Bunching in a whole group because of a handful is bad.
@Guffrus I'm stating how some people feel. They see a few bad people that claim to be apart of a movement that is supposed to be peaceful, but these people are everything but. So I stead of understanding that's not ALL , they'd rather bunch the bad with the good and leave it at that.
@Mil00 I dont consider feminism to be a broadly positive movement given a bad name by a few bad apples.
I view it as a predominantly bad movement which still manages to maintain the support of some very confused people who claim to be proponents of equality but who fail to realise that modern feminism is nothing to do with equality.
The intellectual property, the branding of the movement still holds currency and people have a romantic attachment to the name.
It is my opinion that anyone who stands for equality would be better served by using the term equality as there is no ambiguity as to its meaning.
@Guffrus oh, okay. Thanks for sharing. Despite my comment being about likes and dislikes, not my views (views that I didn't even share, leading to me wondering why you shared that with someone that didn't say they were a feminist or anything)
Speaking for myself, I feel like I truly lack knowledge and awareness about what Feminism truly involves, the ideas/stances held, or what goals/actions are sought. I feel like I understand much less given the responses.
Look it seems to me that you have a horse in the race and you are pretending that you dont.
You dont understand why the comment you view as positive comments are being down voted, well maybe there is something about them that you didn't understand which makes them not so positive.
For me and some others too feminist is synonymous with misandrist, thats literally what i hear when you say that so obviously a statement that says essentially misandrists hate men is going to be upvoted because its true.
It doesn't. Feminism is misandry. It's about hating men and taking men down. Same with #metoo. It's another form of feminism. To take down innocent men. And saying that feminism is about equality is the biggest lie young girls are told. Now, the Men's Rights Movement is about equality. Everyone who needs help should have access to help. Man, woman, white, black, old, young, etc. And judges need to be fired and replaced by people with common sense. Being a man does not mean he deserves more jail time. Being a man does not mean he is the criminal. Being a man does not mean he's a rapist. Being a man does not mean he shouldn't be allowed to defend himself. There is no such thing as Toxic Masculinity. There is no such thing as Manspreading or Mansplaining, and whatever other sh*t that came out of feminist's mouths. Watch "The Red Pill Documentary"
It doesn't it makes them miserable, it associates male image with oppression by default on account of the past, which they saw as an oppressive patriarchy, hence something which is necessary to be torn down, to rip it apart you need to first destroy the strength and vitality of men themselves. The problem is in a western society where no right afforded to men is not afforded to women, you are trying to disenfranchise men simply for being men, the essence of sexism which is what feminism is in ideal suppose to remedy. Fighting something by using the very thing you are fighting against is both purely ironical and the definition of insanity, which is what third wave feminism is, insane. It victimizes women, oppress men and makes up lie to keep breathing
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
It helps a lot, my girlfriend works, thus, we have more money. Besides, she made the first move, without feminism, she would probably be passive/submissive and wouldn't be able to take initiative. That means that feminism has freed us from primitive gender roles which were constructed by the malicious religious institutions. Logically, I don't support feminazism, only genuine feminism. I say, every man should be a feminist, because feminism is for equality of genders. Dumb guys, I wasn't talking to you, yeah, you just go mgtow, more women for us ;)
@AmandaYVR Thanks, yeah, some of us know the truth, even though, the truth bothers the uninformed bigots and misogynists (mostly incels and mgtow fanatics).
Imma admit, you got some facts that are right, I give you that, but your idea of feminism is clouded. You should just be an egalitarian, fighting for men's, and women's rights.
Exactly, the facts, key words are: On the basis of the equality of the sexes.
Egalitarianism is belief in human equality especially with respect to social, political, and economic affairs, it's not specifically gender based. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/egalitarianism
You can interpret it in any way, but I'm just saying, a term having the meaning of a neutral political standpoint within the gender area would be a more sensible thing to be called as.
Of course, I said I'm a feminist, I don't like feminazis. Egalitarians support lots of other things not related to gender equality, like different political, religious and philosophical views which I don't supports.
Feminism isn't necessary anymore. Women have the rights they need and now they're just making up silly stuff to try keep it going like the gender pay gap. There's also always going to be sexists just like they will always be racists, there's nothing you can do to change that.
There are still girls getting married off to older men, girls that get their vulva sewed up and ripped off by a man that their parents gave them to. You're 15, your can look up what's happening to women outside of the United states and any other country that has it "made"
It discourages harmful masculine gender roles based on shaming men for being "feminine" (being emotional, enjoying fashion, liking stereotypically feminine sports/other activities). It recognizes that sex based family expectations are unfair (men being the main money makers, men not being good caretakers for children). It addresses intersectional issues (black men being seen as more aggressive, gay men being looked down on).
I was just at friends birthday party. All I saw was guys bragging about how good they were in bed and how many chicks they slept with. If a women did same sort of thing. She would immediately get labeled SLUT. As though if having sex Is a one way street for men. I do believe it take 2 to do the deed. So slut shaming in my view needs to stop and thanks to Feminism they are half way there.
@SwordShield: Thanks, I appreciate that. Also, I'm interested in what your take on "toxic masculinity"/the use of that term is. Personally, I agree that the concept it describes exists, but I think the term itself is a bit too charged to effectively communicate the meaning.
To me, based on the ways I've seen it used, it means social expectations that encourage men to behave in ways that are potentially unhealthy for themselves or others. That's things like not acknowledging your own emotions (other than anger, in many cases) and not being sensitive to the feelings of others, being violent, doing dangerous things to show bravery, being competitive/dominant, showing sexual interest in women, and not asking other people for help. That doesn't necessarily mean that doing things like that is 100% bad or 100% socially and not biologically based, or that if someone naturally enjoys those things that they shouldn't do them at all. It just means that expecting men to act in these ways and shaming them if they don't is harmful to the health of many men, and to the health of those around them. So basically, act in whatever way brings the most happiness to yourself while avoiding hurting those around you, and don't expect yourself or others to act in specific ways just because it conforms to typical ideas of "masculinity".
Do you see the term differently? If so, can you explain why/where you've seen it used that way?
I just do not get you. Shavin has really nothinh to do with feminism. It is a trend. For 100 years ago nobody shave themself. Also in Europe a generation ago shaving was not tgat common
@shinka1y234 Modern feminism is misandry. If you support equality, then just talk about equality. Its not complicated. The womens movement was over a long time ago, quite a long time before you were born actually. The other thing you didn't get was a joke. So as you clearly dont understand very much about what is going on around you perhaps you should listen more than you speak.
@shinka1y234 yepp your right. I shave and am girly, yepp im very anti woman👍
Fyi you're 19 and muslim, you're not even a woman yet but a girl. Nothing you say is even fyped in correct grammar and no one and taking you seriously. So do yourself a favor and get off my post amd take your hijabu or whatever the fkk y'all wear there , with you. you're annoying at this point hun💋
Feminism doesn't even help females. Toxic masculinity is such a broad term. They use it to describe minor alterations, they use it to describe the weather. Cmon. Women are equal to men, but we are programmed with roles in mind. Men try their best to lead, women pick the man they want to follow. That's how our brains naturally want things to go. Stripping a man of his manliness just makes a world full of women. Women are not sexually atracted to a man with feelings. They are attracted to a man who takes charge. Feminism will destroy us all.
Imagine a female President in WW11 telling the army to use the atomic bomb. It would not have happened and there would have been millions of more men killed by the Japanese. Very few of you women in America would have been born, under Japanese Dictators. So FEMINIST CARRY ON.
So many feminists are at their core dishonest people. They will confuse suffragettes with modern 3rd-wave feminism, and ignore the long train of mentally unstable contributors to what feminist thought. They will also ignore that a vast majority of feminist thought leaders are lesbians. This is because their worldview is fragile and can bear no rational analysis. That is why lies like the college rape epidemic (strange that this happens in 2013 to now, when everyone has a portable camera in their pocket, right), abortion is healthcare, equal pay, and all men are rapists, must be shouted and everyone who opposes them vilified. Feminism is not about truth. It's about mass insanity and the triumph of unhinged emotionalism over observable reality.
Feminism was about women and the rights of women when it was started. That's why the word.. is called feminism, it's centered around femininity and femininity is mostly referred to us women. That's what most movements are about, it's usually centered around one thing or people to try to make a change either for better or worse for those groups of people. For example, the civil rights movements was about and for us blacks to get rights, the anti war movement was about being anti war, etc...
So technically speaking, feminism wasn't focused on men it was focused on women and still is for the most part. That's just the honest truth. But let's not act like there wasn't movements centered for just men, the anti draft movement (anti war) was soley centered for men and their right to not be forcefully drafted into a war they did not start or want to take part in. That movement had really had nothing to do with women, cause we didn't have to worry about being drafted.
@Gabrielskaddadle Ugh yeah.. that's kinda why I mentioned it, and if you actually READ then you would of seen I said that: "That movement had really had nothing to do with women, cause we didn't have to worry about being" Derp moment there buddy. lol
@Gabrielskaddadle You do know there was and is a movement for men right? And men's rights movement as well.. there's plenty of movements catered to just men.. I only mentioned Anti draft as an example to show that their have been movements only for the male sex.
very simple, femisnim frees both genders of gender roles eg. if women didn't have to be submissive men wouldn't have to be dominant instead we would both see each other in terms of personality rather than gender gender would only matter when it comes to sexuality there would still be dominant men and submissive women that are that way by their personality but it would make anyone not fitting that norm free not to be that way
If that were indeed the case. Why are feminists complicit in bringing millions of migrants who want nothing but establish patriarchal rule? Dont give me that bullshit that your work is not over yet, feminist savagery will never be over.
@esotericstory um issue of immigrants has more to do with nacism conflicting with humanity not really feminism; I have not seen feminist promoting migrants coming tho
Feminists in Europe refuse to speak out about migrant rape gangs. If you care about women's rights, they have to speak about it. If not, they are betraying their own principles.
@esotericstory I dont really think it goes that way. As a feminist i dont think you MUST be active and passionate about ALL gender issues. And let along doesn't make it right that anyone damands for you to care about specific issue. Also i dont see rape as feminism issue really. Rape is generally by society an issue that is already regulated by laws. Be it by immigrant or anyone.
So campaigns like metoo should deal with rape, but not with immigrant rape gangs roaming the streets? 12dezibel is an organization started simply to deal with feminist censorship of migrants raping little girls. If you speak out about one type of rape but not about the others you are a hypocrite and you have betrayed your own values.
@esotericstory as i said i simply dont agree with your logic, if you are only active againt racism in the USA cause you live there doesn't mean you must be active against racism everywhere, which doesn't mean you think racism there is ok, but that you have enough on you plate dealing with racism in your own life. And men often dont get this, you tend to DEMAND that if someone is feminist they MUST resolve men issues too. You may be feminist and feel for men issues but it doesn't mean one MUST actively resolve someone elses issues. Being activist about anything is someones choice, doesn't mean if someone is not an activist that they dont care about the issue nor that they must do something about it
there's no logic to it. If thousands of girls are being raped and molested, that becomes a topic you should get active about it, instead feminists are PREVENTING women from speaking out about it.
@esotericstory I don't know who pissed you off but I see no feminist preventing anyone talking about it... if someone identifies as feminist and prevents such talks then I can understand your anger but i dont think you can say all feminist do that. I compltely agree that migrants issues are prominent but im unsure of details about it. Sometimes its just about promoting hate against migrants. I sencerly dubt that most men in those countries are all rapist that molest women.
The driver in the handmaids tale is a decent example. The guy in power is holding some nice earrings on a woman out of a dozen under his leash. He asks "dosen't it look beautiful?" The driver says "yes sir." Not oppressed in the same way but exploited. An injustice for one is an injustice for all.
Unless you have the power to exploit or want that power yourself, you have nothing to gain fighting feminism or any others fighting the powers at be. You might not be oppressed but exploited by being the willing punching bag for the same powers of abuse that the others want to fight.
Some facts. Feminism is about making the sex fair by focusing solely on the problems of only one sex.
Far left feminists would rather tackle mythical pay gaps than the maltreatment of women is extremist Islamic countries.
Feminists believe that men have oppressed women for as long as we have recorded history. While the actual facts are the a minute number of men oppressed everyone including almost all men and the women.
If we want equality promote equality of opportunity and openness about sexual harassment in the work place.
Women have been more disadvanteged in the past therefore there were more groups what im trynna bring to ur attention is that men have a completely different support system to women. There were farrr less male groups in the past and in the present. I am not trying to piss u off im just saying i wish there were more groups for things like male rape and immascualtion becuz men turn to things like MGTOW which have become convoluted and changed into a incel pumping machine. The immasculation of men is just as big an issue as the empowerment of women. Women have been forced to be subservient for a long time and the opposite for men. This has left both men and women with misconceptions about how they are supposed to be or that they can be what they want. I didn't mean to offend u with my first answer i was more angry at the fact that there are no groups that teach men about masculinity and how to be a man.
You talking about feminazi’s or feminist rights sorts feminists? Personally I think the word “feminism” doesn’t serve justice to “we want rights for everybody”. They say that “feminism” helps mean to, but nearly all they argue about is oppressing men and empowering women over men
I've seen feminists argue for equal parenting rights, which also includes men getting appropriate paternity leave and visitation rights, they also quite often focus on domestic assault and rape which men suffer too from too. Feminists are also generally quite pro-LGBT and this can help LGBT men, and a lof of feminists are active in matters regarding race, which would help men of colour. Not sure if the last few are direct ways feminism helps men or more like an outside thing.
@CLASSYMUTT I recommend taking a quick google if you're curious. I'm not a feminist so I'm not the best person to direct questions to, though my search has found these:
I hope any of this helps. I can't give the sources of what I've seen as this has been over the course of my lifetime and, since I'm not a feminist myself, I haven't exactly been keeping track of the information I've read. Just been reading their view points and then moving on.
Should also clarify again for all the men downvoting this opion: I'm not a feminist. Simply saying what I have observed over the years. Thank you for your time.
Actually, if you delve further into it, the rape part was actually an accident. When feminists were fighting for the definition of rape to be changed so women who were unconscious would be included, they accidentally let men be defined.
Whether the origin was an accident or not, I have seen feminists fighting for awareness regarding male rape. I can't give you an example of feminists fighting for a men's shelter, I've just seen them talking about needing more awareness for male victims of domestic abuse.
It helps us lose our children! It helps us lose our self worth! It helps us lose our value! It helps us lose our freedom! It helps us lose our soul! It helps us lose our family's! It helps us lose our lives! Feminism dosent help men it destroys men plain and simple!
2&5. No attention is on Male victims. Men's lives are being destroyed over unproven accusation, while women's aren't. And there is no push for demestic abuse shelters for men.
3. That has more to do with LGBTQ then feminists. Why are you taking credit for that?
4. What have feminists done or talked about with this? I've never heard anything about it.
1 was already talked about so I'm not going to repeat it
feminism helps men by letting women show their true colors. a man who is observant enough can tell sane women apart from the legions of insane women out there. lots of women here are saying that feminism helps men by freeing them from gender roles. BULLSHIT! making men more submissive and helping women be more dominant helps women, NOT MEN. feminist has helped governments to further oppress men not free men. but adversity makes strong people stronger. certain men are getting stronger because of the hatred they receive from and the oppression they face because of feminism. hopefully one day these men can destroy feminism and the people who pushed it all together
"feminism helps men by letting women show their true colors". So that means feminism help woman to show their true nature instead of acting like one. Well, women actually are hypergamy. So that means they are very selective and picky when it comes to dating. If you are not tall enough, average looking or good looking etc. women would not even look at you. That is how it is. It is their nature. Why do you complain. A woman is like that. Anyway you can choose to be gay.
@shinka1y234 Did i mention Hypergamy? anyway i don't care if women are selective but women should be careful what is their own worth. every woman wants a tall, rich handsome guy with great personality who adores them but do all women deserve that? no. that kind of guy is out of almost all women's league. that's why most women end up single and childless because they ignore men in their own league. i'm straight and can't just switch to be gay but sometimes i think about it and honestly those gay men are smart for not letting women in their lives
I personally feel that feminism is a bad term. If the movement is truly about equality, then why put an emphasis on females. I understand there may be things wrong with society towards females, but that still doesn't excuse it. Especially since it has turned lopsided with women trying to have almost the rights over men.
They type of men that enjoy having hedonistic sex with stupid sluts
Yeah, those guys are fking rolling in it right now, more than ever before. The empowered mom will ditch her kid for 5 minutes of tyrone's big blackie assuming she even has kids, because she can just KILL EM!
Basically, feminism has strengthened all the worst traits in men. Now, the successful man must be one of two varieties to succeed with the average girl. The player, or the appeaser.
It doesn't help men, it doesn't even help women. I am all for women breaking barriers and having good pay and to be taken seriously. But if a girl is a feminist and acts like a b**** then she's no different then the guys/men she complains about who are assholes.
4th wave feminism does not help men, and in many ways it can actively harm them (especially when it dovetails with adjacent movements... like #metoo... and 'cancel culture', etc.).
Classical feminism (ie: equality of opportunity for both genders) is a net positive for both men and women; since it gives everyone a chance to contribute their most potent skills to society (whether in career, or in child-raising, or personal passions/ the arts, etc.)
Feminism helps no one but the fat angry pinkhairs who have used it to outwardly justify why no one likes or wants to date them, instead of looking at themselves as the problem.
I always laugh when women say this. See how stupid women think that men are when they are the dumbest creatures worldwide. Yeah sure feminism helps men. It helps men to shut up. And be controlled by ball-busting, bitchy women. Being unable to tell a joke. It helps men to just sit quiet while a woman throws objects and punches at them.
3
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
First of all, ignorant guys (including their fake female profiles) should learn that femi-nazis are not feminists, they are female supremacists and misandrists.
How did feminism help men? Women have became much more confident, it helped men achieve better relationships and more satisfying sex (I know that incels are butt-hurt about that).
@Aiko_E_Lara Oh the asker did? No he didn't, you just proved how dumb you are. I deleted your ignorant comment, and I always will, cause you don't know anything about the truth. I talk only with smart men, who know the difference between feminism and femi-nazism, and who know that egalitarianism is equality in some other terms, not just gender based. I know that word "sex" bothers you cause you're a pathetic incel, but hey, what can you do ;) Good bye, don't bother to troll again, because you'll get deleted, along with all of your fake profiles, both male and female :)
@Syrian_survivor Not as stupid as you, cause it takes just one small movement for me to delete your spam, while it takes more effort for you to troll around, well, there are some male feminists in here, why don't you ask them how did feminism help them... bye bye :)
My question was about how feminism helps men achieve better relationships and sex (which I guess you've since deleted.. okay?). Are saying that because feminism makes women more confident, that men have better relationships *because* their partners are more confident? I'm just trying to ascertain your reasoning on this. Usually when one makes a claim, one gives some kind of supporting argument for why the claim is valid. What's the supporting argument for feminism improving men's relationships and sex life?
@SomeGuyCalledTom Ok, I'll give you one more chance to understand. I know many guys who are in happy relationships with strong women who are feminists (not femi-nazis like those ugly & fat freaks with purple hair).
Would you, as a man, prefer a confident woman, or a crybaby? Would you like a woman who would take initiative and ask you for a date, or would you rather embarrass yourself by getting rejected? Would you rather be with a woman who would work and contribute to the family, or would you rather have a burden of financially supporting the family all by yourself? I hope you understand now :)
-- I'd prefer a confident woman, and have met many such women. Some may consider themselves feminist, some may not (frankly, I never asked, it doesn't really affect my decision of whether I wanna keep seeing a girl). I don't believe confidence comes from a political ideology, it comes from how one conducts one's life. But sure, gender equality tends to produce more capable, self-assured individuals, as opposed to tyrannical societies where women have no rights or are viewed as "inferior" to men. So let's say we're on the same page here.
-- It makes no difference to me whether she asks me on a date first; if I'm interested, chances are I'll ask her out first as I'm quite direct in my intentions. I've had girls approach me before, but it didn't seem like a feminist thing, they were just comfortable in their own skin and not playing games
-- if a woman wants to support our (theoretical) family financially, in addition to my own financial providing, then I've got nothing specific against that, and I do not want to marry some gold digging whore who just runs off with the fruits of my labour at the first chance. So in a broad sense I agree with what you're getting at here. Although I can also see the benefits of a marriage where man works full time, while woman provides "full time" child-rearing, home-keeping, etc. In either case, the division of labour should add up to around 50/50. I'm also fine couples who have the man stay at home with kids and the woman is the sole breadwinner. It's not a relationship model I would want for myself, but if those couples like that arrangement and it works for them and the kids, then more power to them. I suspect they will never constitute the majority of couples, and in some ways are kinda "outlier" cases. But I don't hold anything against them for their choices.
So, I'm still not convinced that feminism directly and measurably improves men's relationships and sex life. But I can, if nothing else, appreciate your reasoning that's brought you to such conclusion. Thankyou for clarifying your position. Best wishes :)
@OrangeBoy2 I'd appreciate you not to invoke spam on my opinion by that pathetic loser who can't tell the difference between feminism and femi-nazism, who misuses the term "egalitarianism", because he doesn't know what that really is, and who is a quasi-philosopher, who always uses "ad hominem" bullshit because he doesn't know what else to say, cause he is too ignorant to say anything smart. It's always important who said it, I strictly differentiate words of a dumb person (who doesn't know anything about the subject and can't tell apart different terms) and smart person (who knows the differences between those terms). Pseudo-science of various mgtow freaks on youtube is not an argument. I hope you understand, I won't tolerate trolling and spamming anymore :)
@OrangeBoy2 From him? Only a psychiatrist could have learned certain mental problems in incels, but I doubt there are any psychiatrists on the GaG ;) Ok, nice talking to you :)
Feminism doesn't help men at all it's just a lot of bullshit feminist do to shame men for being men and play the victim card whenever a guy tells her logic.
My version of being a feminist is about equality for both men and women. For example I take males that were victims of abuse just as seriously as a women. I would encourage men to express their feelings more (because thats one of the reasons a lot of men commit suicide, because of toxic masculinity). Also I believe if a women punches a man he is 100% ok to defend himself.
That's not the problem at all. Women stabbing us in the back after we've provided for them is what causes men to kill themselves. If women weren't so overly critical of men we wouldn't have the pressure on our shoulders to make absolutely no mistake, no hesitation, and never lapse in our better judgement in front of our woman, should she think we are inferior and as a result, cheat on us with a more worthy man.
Sorry but feminism is a load of crap that's just designed to ruin how things naturally work and make everyone's lives miserable with the same stone. No doubt it was created by women who wanted to watch the world burn.
The psychology behind being a man and women. Feminism pits men against their own nature that not only creates dissonance inside us but also pussifies us. And in doing so, it jepordizes the nature of women, because women are not psychologically attracted to pussy men.
@sunchips I'm a psychology student and a feminist and you are just wrong. I would explain to you how you are wrong but you don't seem to be the open minded type. Your belief about what toxic masculinity is and what feminism is seems to be set in stone
I am also a psychology student, although it has been a while. I come to conclusions based on facts and I pursue plausable outcomes. I have field research to back up my claims. Although I am interested in why you believe I am wrong. Tell me just for the sake of proving to me that you know what you are talking about. Even if we disagree, I can't help but respect an intellectual. So please, enlighten me.
Not realizing that claiming feminism is about quality only proves inequality. I'd care to elaborate. So let me ask you what's the male counter part of feminism? and what's the counterpart of equality? If you can give me that answer then that will only prove superiority. Ignoring the fact that there is a middle ground to it. You're not saying feminism is equality. You're just saying that our gender is superior and the rightful ones and of course they think it's fair for whatever bias reasons.
I fail to see how the first sentence applies. The next bit also confuses me. If meninism is the opposite of feminism, and inequality is the opposite of equality, I fail to see how knowing those answers proves superiority to you. And superiority to what? Are you saying I'm superior for knowing the answer? Or that the answers together equal superiority? I fail to see the correlation. Please explain your logic. I never said females were superior. I said they were genetically inclined to act a certain way, as men are their own. As for anything after "the rightful ones.." I can't make it out. It's gibberish.
Do it. I wanna talk for real. We need to establish what we define feminism as. This will avoid senseless babblings and assumptions by hot headed fools such as the one above.
Nice attempt of private messaging there. It's just like the clan of brainwashing making people ignorant about the public in society. By the way why not choose to speak out in public and see how many agrees with you?
Y'all are arguing that her personal interpretation is incorrect because it doesn't line up with the popular views of feminism. It doesn't have to, though, if it's just how she puts a name to her views on gender.
Jesus. I go to study and this is what i come to find 😂 Look idc what you guys say, but if I want to say im a feminist than I say that. I believe that each gender should be able to do things at the other gender can. If a women wants to work or be a housewife than go ahead. If a man wants to be a house dad or work than ok. Either way we should try to help one another rather than tear eachother down
by the way Aiko_E_Lara, I don't want to the feminist having to argue with 3 non/anti feminists at the same time and i frankly don't care to hear the opinions of people whining "feminism is cancer! feminism is misandry!"
I've already tried having a discussion with you about feminism and to honest, you were a complete asshole. You didn't listen to me, you would repeatedly ask the same question as if i never answered it, even though i did and u just didn't like my answer. Having a one-on-one discussion with someone shouldn't be the fucking nightmare it was with you. you were completely disrespectful and irrational while I tried my best to be nice and comprehensive
@Staiby "i frankly don't care to hear the opinions of people whining "feminism is cancer! feminism is misandry!" <--- Just like being comfortable with their own ignorance? I'd say go ahead and not care. We already know what that means. And ironically speaking coming from a movement who screams "men are rapists and misogynistic pigs" who invents the word mansplaining by womansplaining it to everyone.
@Aiko_E_Lara who screams that? you can't just attribute those quotes to a whole movement when that movement is made up of individuals with their own ideas, their own forms of feminism and identify with different schools of feminism, schools that contradict each other so it's impossible to identify with all of them. that's why I blocked you because u're so ignorant and uninformed
@Staiby You asked who? It doesn't take a genius. It's so called feminists who do that. And yeah calling me ignorant as an excuse to block is really lame by the way. Like trying to dismiss argument by calling me ignorant when I literally presented something you were in denial about. And yes they're feminists. They claimed to be feminists. As the history shown that women started feminism because they feel "oppressed" is just like how those feminists feel. You like "I'm so oppressed because I'm cat called" Oh yeah so oppressed because men don't have any problems.
I can already hear you saying "those aren't feminists" yet the history of it still stands. Actively fighting for their rights which you think it's applicable these days?
@Staiby And that something I shown is what common people have seen. Not something from the very back of google where people can barely reach.
Just because many people agreed, doesn't mean it's fact? Is that your justification? If so, what makes you say you're being truthful? Because it says so in your book? Puhlese this isn't all about your book. If that's what you're saying then everyone is wrong and you don't realize how that make you sound.
@Staiby I'm so ignorant and uninformed just like billions of people on this planet. Of course because we're living in a real world. Where's your world?
@Aiko_E_Lara i asked you for the names of people who have said what you claim feminists have said. I asked you to put names to those quotes instead of just unnamed anonymous sources. and you have failed to do that. not just failed but you are probably avoiding doing it because you can't name a specific person who has said "men are pigs" etc.
I also blocked you because you go on a bullshit-rampage. just like you have just done know. assuming that I would use a no true Scotsman fallacy when I wouldn't. I openly disagree with other feminists but I wouldn't ever tell someone they're not a REAL feminist.
And yeah men have their own unique problems and suffer similar issues as women do. I'm aware and I'm still a feminist. Not despite men's problems but partly because of men's problems. here's a story about a man who is an ex men's rights activist and now a feminist. He still cares about the same problems that affect men but he realized that feminism had everything he needed. narratively.com/.../
and what fucking book are you talking about? u see. you go on a bullshit-rampage. this is why i gave up on talking to you
@Staiby Lol that source? He's a man's rights activists however we're an anti feminist because we are not getting brainwashed like him. Oh and by the way an angry men's rights activists is just like feminism. Both gendered counterparts. And for your lists of those who buzzfeed feminists who screams "men are misogynistic" Well here they are https://www.buzzfeed.com/tag/feminism You can see their names there and here's their video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuRTS9oFGwc&t=72s Ofcourse they're not named in there but there are still lists of feminists from buzzfeed I gave which has been destroyed by popular youtubers like Dr. Shaym https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuRTS9oFGwc&t=72s who also got support in Patreon https://www.patreon.com/DrShaym and also the ever popular Ben Shapiro who have been destroying that movement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtsFHiaAuwM Go skip at 0:47.
"what fucking book are you talking about?" <-- The one you're talking about. And of course you don't remember it.
I mean you can't see their names in the video but the fact that you can see them and hear what they're talking about is not anonymous. So yeah there are many feminists from buzzfeed there and they're a few of those in the list.
@Staiby And by the way I thought you were done a long time ago. You don't wanna deal with 3 anti feminists you say? Because you're about to deal with thousands of them.
@Aiko_E_Lara Ben Shapiro is not someone to take seriously...
i watched 2 minutes of the first video and omg ffs that guy is an idiot. i dont know where to start. he says "buzzfeed is demonizing men" and the woman specifics that's she is talking about 'catcallers'. one woman talks about a construction worker commenting rudely on her tits and his response was "why do u care about what some low life thinks about u"... wtf he is such an idiot. she doesn't care what he thinks about her, she cares that she was cat called and wishes he didn't catcalled her. I've been catcalled about my tits and i dont care what they think about me. i care that it happened because it made me feel violated that someone thought they could make such an intimate comment about my breasts. It made me feel dirty. I doubt you'll ever be catcalled so you won't understand what it feels like. maybe you should listen to the people who have been catcalled when they tell you what it is like
and u know u make very little fucking sense. what fucking book are u fucking talking about?
U're right. i should stop talking to u. i don't know why i bothered to talk to u. u're a pain in the ass
@Staiby See? That proves it. We're all a pain in the ass. And we're all stupid. Just better not exist if that's the case. Like yes that's how feminists see the world. I mean according to you, saying hi is a catfish. Lol how oppressed. Here's the original video for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_rgz7RX-WE&t=2s And tell me what threads you see
@Staiby Well guess what? I got I got cat called by my female classmates because my dick is showing and I don't care. Because I'm not a snowflake like you.
@Aiko_E_Lara you misconstrue what i say so severely you don't realize how ridiculous you are being. you tell me im getting triggered? u're the one who is getting triggered just because i called u a pain in the ass, making it a gender thing? who is "we"? u make no friggin sense.
@Staiby And you don't realize how ignorant you are. This is like clock work really. You called me a pain in the ass just because I claimed something *Shrugs* So I'm a pain in the ass? Jeez thanks. truth hurts by the way and you're just proved me right
@OfDeath my response to what you said is: equality is a feminist goal. equality is a component in feminist ideology and no single ideology or movement owns the concept of equality. black lives matter has equality as a component in the movement. egalitarianism has the component of equality.
@Staiby With all the propaganda just like saying MGTOW's goal is equality because of how much men is oppressed and feminists be hating. The hypocrisy is real.
@Staiby Oh really? Do you think it would automatically be different just because they said so when they obviously have the same principles and mechanics? In that case "feminism is about equality" <-- My response to that is "it's not like that. it's not the same."
@Staiby And how is it different? Or how is it not obvious? They both fight for "equality" PFF. You know like feminsts hating on men like in the video I presented? Yeah MGTOWs do those on women. Spreading their propaganda about women being gold diggers or some sort.
@Aiko_E_Lara i watched 2 minutes of the first vid and couldn't stand it anymore because the youtuber makes the dumbest arguments. but all i saw was women complaining about being catcalled. the focus was on cat callers and not ALLLLL men.
@Staiby And MGTWO "just" complaining about gold diggers and sluts right? Well sure they're complaining about cat calls but they just explained what catcalling is and according to them, It's saying "Hi" "Don't wear a demin jacket" and even compliments are cat calls now. Oh only if a guy does it he debunked it right there. And I still like how you're trying to dismiss arguments by calling everyone dumb. As it didn't work before, what makes you think it'l still work now?
@Staiby In other words they're talking about cat callers but explains what men do normally. And look at the original video again and comeback to me after you see the votes ratio.
@Staiby And what about women who cat calls? That's something they never even bothered doing. And I thought it's about equality. Like the asker's question "How does feminism help men?" <-- All I can say is they think cherry picking is their way to help men.
@Aiko_E_Lara i specified previously what was wrong and dumb about his arguments.
You make a very irrelevent comparison between feminist and MGTOW. they both 'complain' about stuff... really? best u got?
You can say hi in a sleazy way, getting up someone for the way they dress as you walk past them is harassment. i got told off very rudely to dye my hair while walking past that person.
Noun. catcall (plural catcalls) A shout or whistle expressing dislike, especially from a crowd or audience; a jeer, a boo. A shout, whistle, or comment of a sexual nature, usually made toward women. (historical) A whistle blown by a theatre-goer to express disapproval.
@Staiby Oh now I'm irrelevant? And ofcourse you don't think you're irrelevant for what ever reason. You're comparing equality to feminism. How could a gendered label be equality? Something that is gendered have their own counterpart to it FYI that is why MGTOW is a male version of feminism because? FYI they like to talk about men's suicide rate, men being told to man up, men losing the child custody, the double standards and so on like claiming men are so oppressed that they want "equality" just like what feminists do. So MGTOW claims their movement is equality. And yes that's the best I got and it doesn't take a genius to understand that.
"You can say hi in a sleazy way, getting up someone for the way they dress as you walk past them is harassment. i got told off very rudely to dye my hair while walking past that person." <-- As if women don't do that. Well they do but do we even care? Like what I said we're not snowflakes like them because it's a rights to do that. So what if a man says hi in "sleazy way"? Oh no that hurts your feelings and what are you gonna do? Kill him just for saying hi? It's just like an instinct of shooting someone just because someone said "fuck you" when you can just not care and not be a snowflake.
So what if he wasn't being "sleazy" at all but according to your feelings, he is? Accuse him of sexual harassment and have his life ruined? I thought this is equality.
@Aiko_E_Lara men's suicide. yeah men make up 80% of all suicide victims while women make up the majority of suicide attempts and experience more suicidal tendencies then men. Men use more lethal methods (gun shot to the head and jumping off of bridges) while women use less lethal methods like overdosing on pills. If you want to actually do something to fix the issue instead of whinging and bitching about women and feminism all day, you could advocate for gun restrictions because gun restrictions have been shown to lower suicide by gun rates
@Staiby "women make up the majority of suicide attempts" <-- to see if who really cares. Actually men does that too but does society care? I mean men are stronger and emotionless and not to mention a lot of women likes strong men. The article "women are wonderful effect" still stands.
@Staiby Whining about women? No. I'm whining about feminists whining about men's privilege. I'm an anti feminist not an anti women. There's a big difference before you start strawmanning
@Staiby Then go make that article if you wish. He used that article at the end of that video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO9nUBazWEg&t=181s Now I challenge you to spot someone who tried to disagree with him
@Staiby I don't think. I know. And by the way what happened to your logic? All you're doing right now is just saying things as and hope it'l become true like that's how the world works, Pff
@Aiko_E_Lara thats what uve been doing the entire time. saying things u want to be true and present weak ass evidence if u could even call it evidence.
@Staiby Or that's what "WE" have been doing the entire time. Like what you said all of my claims are stupid? Again sure it is stupid according to you. We're all stupid according to you. Hey at least what we do is so much better than just saying shit just because we don't like what they're saying or doing shit just because we don't like human rights.
@Staiby So you're gonna be in denial with all those people who are actually people making threads and supporting Shaym. Sure those people who voted are "weak ass people" Only those who down voted his videos are the rightful ones. You surly don't know what number's game is
So what happened to that "it should be called "women are wonderful WHEN effect"." "it's already in wiki's criticism section"?
Are those really your claims? Lets be real. You're not a goddess who makes things true by only saying it. And you're calling our evidence "weak ass" PFF.
@Staiby And lastly, you said you were done talking a along time ago because of those 3 anti feminists. That just proves you don't know what your saying.
So do I and I have something called time management. Just say you don't want to if you don't want to. Saying you have a life is not an excuse. Everyone does have.
It helps us realize how inferior males are to females in every way and that we should serve women or obviously just kill our selves. It enforces the ideal that men are indeed completely worthless and should have been born female. It is why so many young boys are getting sex changes.
It is absolutely complete and utter rubbish as they don’t want equality in any way. If you need clarification, the first paragraph was pure sarcasm
Well for example feminists in Sweden pushed legislation that gave men an equal paternity leave as women have maternity leave so they can also be home with their children as they grow up.
Are they now? And besides for the purposes of the example I gave does it even matter? An equal maternity and paternity leave is the obvious feminist position, its just a question of being able to push through the legislation in question.
It doesn't. If it were actually about gender equality then it would.
When was the last time feminism advocated for men in the areas of life expectancy, mental health, resources for the homeless, prostate cancer, bias against men when it comes to the courts and custody, alimony? That's right, it doesn't.
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It has relieved men of the social obligation of relationships and marriage and has exposed the innate manipulative evil nature of women. Feminism has made men independent and free thus helping men and really screwing over women. Women now carry the full burden of reproduction and support while men can become minimalists.
In the past one wage was enough to sustain a family of 5-6 children. Now people complain both men and women working doesn't sustain even having 2 children.
@esotericstory One wage, but the man didn't work only 40 hours a week. 40 hours/week was NEVER enough to provide for a family of 5-6 children. Men in biblical times toiled in the blazing heat from sunrise to sundown, 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, to provide for their families
Let me tell you something. Before the French revolution workers had 82 days vacation a year. After it the workers only had 3 days vacation a month. Today, we have about 20 days vacation a year. The more there are leftist revolutions the more acquired rights we lose.
@esotericstory why did the French revolution happen? Could it be despite all those holidays the people were starving and paying huge taxes while the super rich did not. #letthemeatcake @mistixs men still do all the outside work and DIY plus thanks to modern conviences housework is a doodle. No more doing laundry by hand with washers & dryers, vacuums hoover dust up, detergents make cleaning quick and easy, ironing clothes is easy, electric cookers make cooking easy etc
Feminism gives women adult mentalities instead of childlike "I need you" attitude. Only strong men appreciate women who act like women instead of children who need to be controlled.
I'm sorry, what? For a start, that statement does not match my lived experience with feminism, which has actually attempted the opposite. Secondly - what man wants to effectively be a single father to an adult child?
@JSG4_ that isn't true. If it was, every men would support feminism which purpose is to relief and free women from men's domination. Domination that control both sexes except men benefit. Freeing from that would mean women independent physically, mentality, and emotionally
This is bizzar, and only reinforces the impression that feminism creates children who can't react rationally.
@foriWish dictionaries are descriptive not prescriptive. I invite you to look at urban dictionary so you can see how words are used by people other than yourself.
The issue with 'no true feminist' is that you can, if you wish to, never attribute anything to anyone who uses the label in a way you don't like. I have, for example, seen some 'feminists' claim that equality is not part of feminism because in some cases it disadvantages women.
Your church needs orthodoxy, and until you get it then you're doomed to being represented by your worst members.
@flowers70 I'm looking at my response and scratching my head, wondering where I asked for an explanation. If people don't want to talk about their ideas then they are free not to, but are naive if they think they won't be challenged.
@sheepdip Do you refer to transgenders by their desired pronoun? I know numerous people on this site and in real who do not. If they (and most likely you) can do it so can I when referring to REAL feminists. You can't just call people something they are not.
Women still act like children who make emotion based decisions though... well, from what I've observed anyway, there are an amount out there with some sense, not sure if they are really the majority though from everything I've seen.
@tree02 women and men both make emotional decisions. Its not like men only use logic and women only use emotion, we both use each one. The issue is that I've seen feminism try to justify the use of women's emotional decision making.
@sheepdip My point is, it's common sense one should not call people something they are not. I'm female. Just because I go around saying I'm male doesn't mean people should call me male. I don't have a penis, I do not have XY chromosome, I'm not as strong as a man, I don't carry sperm, etc. And just because you may call people something they are not doesn't mean many people will
@TreeO2 well obviously they aren't the majority, just as there are men who make decisions based on their emotions as well. Acting like children isn't gendered based
This conversation has meandered somewhat, but I do see your point (people are not necessarily what they label themselves) but I think you are missing mine (you don't get to decide what a real feminist is).
Its got nothing to do with common sense; the west borough Baptists are 'not true Christian's according to some, but they tick all the right boxes. Similarly feminists like Christina Hoff Summers, Germaine Greer and Camile Paligia have all been simultaneously praised as example of the best of feminism, and the worst of feminism.
Like I said earlier, your religion needs orthodoxy.
@sheepdip Yes I do get to label what a real feminist is because I base it on the definition. If a person is fighting for the equality of women; BOOM real feminist. Ohh he/she hates men and wants to destroy men; not a feminist but a sexist. It's that simple
It's sad 😢 that some females are not good mother's 💔 breaks my 💓 it brings a bad name on others sadly nothing can be done about it cause no one is perfect and no one has never done any wrong. But we try and those that do try often get the bad end of the stick cause it's so much easier just to lie and cheat then to. Accept things that happen and move forward
Feminism does nothing to help men. All it does is paint males as “stupid sex addict beasts” and they blame all their problems on some mythical patriarchy
It doesn't. xD they claim they want equality but since they assume by default that men are privileged, men won't profit untill they think they finally have enough rights for women, which won't ever happen.
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