A thing I've noticed is that many people, especially on GAG, thinks there's a correlation between intelligence and nationality. They thinks education, nutrition, healthcare etc. doesn't have any impact, but that belonging to a nationality itself does. It's a common belief that people from European, East-Asian and North-American countries are more intelligent, while these ones from African, South-Asian and Middle-eastern aren't. There's even people pointing out indigenous people of Australia also scores lower. Some believes intellectual genetics are more prevalent in some ares than others. #Intelligence#Intelligent#Country
Why Do Many Believe Intelligence Is Correlated To Nationality?
I. Q. tests are updated to reflect increased education level, this is known as the "Flynn Effect" which causes average I. Q. in developed nations to increase by about 1 point per decade.
It's a fact that Asians, Caucasians, and Jews have the highest I. Q. scores in the world, while Africans have the lowest I. Q. scores in the world. China has the highest average I. Q. score, while the U. S. has the second highest I. Q. score, but the average African American in the U. S. has an I. Q. score of just 85, which is an entire Standard Deviation below the defined global average of 100; 100 is always defined as global average. Since Africans have been equally educated in the U. S. for generations now, something genetic must be causing this.
One of the reasons I want to marry an Asian woman is because white people and Asians are smart for different genetic reasons, so having inter-racial offspring with an Asian woman would maximize the genetic advantage of intelligence, AND because she tends to be bilingual, so we could raise our children to be bilingual pretty easily, which greatly increases their educational opportunities and employment opportunities later in life.
Also, Asian women live about 7 to 10 years longer than western women on average, don't smoke or drink, don't get heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke, etc, etc, and they tend to actually be more moral people than westerners too, in spite of the fact most westerners still "claim" to believe in a Supreme Moral God-Being (whom they in fact NEVER obey).
Their is correlation, but its not related specifically to nationality (you don't get stupid or smart by standing on a particular patch of dirt). Culture cultivates intelligence, so does the capacity to focus on intellectual persuits vs. just trying to survive. That is why you will find a greater number of intelligent people in industrialized first world nations comparative to non industrialized nations, not because this creates intelligence but rather it creates an environment for intelligence to develop and flourish (who cares if your a deep and intelligent thinker if it doesn't put food on the table? Mathmatical proclivity is worthless when your starving to death.). So their is correlation but again, that does not mean that their nationality creates intelligence, it means their enviroments allows it to develop just like everything else. If some one proclaims that all people are smarter/dumber in a particular nation then they are absolutely incorrect, individuals vary and their are brilliant people across the world in the worse kinds of situations, it just as I stated, harder to develop those traits when your struggling with just trying to survive (you lack the time and resources to fully develop what you have).
Generally speaking, IQ level is INHERENT from family to family, jumping from generations to generations without regard to race. And apparently IQ gaps varies from one person to another depending on genetics, gender and brain size (and even texture). While external stimulating factors like the environment, cultural upbringing and socio-economic needs are apparent to the ACQUIRED intelligence that is objectively defined based on circumstancial evidences. It proves that intellectual capability are due to the socio-cultural set up of a country where people were raised to believe that knowledge and education is power. Their drive comes from their competitive character to acquire deep and broad knowledge to have the advantage to adapt and have the upper hand when they associate themselves to other nationalities. I don't know which is right of the many studies made, but why do we have to compare, contrast and correlate when this topics could only result to cultural diversity and racial discrimination? No one is above anyone. And should be.
That is not entirely correct. We have noticed that IQ has increased in populations faster then what genetics can account for so I think its premature to claim that its the only factor along side the others mentioned (I think its probably very likely that epigenetics plays a noteworthy role in this as well as all the others because again, we are seeing jumps in IQ within single generations which evolution simply cannot do). That's why I tend to emphasis cultural and environmental influences as they seem to increase the probability of intelligence and explains why certain groups have higher IQs despite their relationships to other very closely related groups (the average IQs of Africans are lower then African americans for instance despite their similar heritage). I do think its important to research this to understand how it works but I also agree that this should never be used as justification of descrimination as its immoral one, and two individuals are highly variable and to proclaim some one has inferior intelligence because of their race while they as an individual exhibit much higher IQ then the average is not only immoral (as mentioned) but also highly destructive to every one as you lose out on what ever they could contribute as well as breeding resentment that could very well become destructive (and understandably so).
Isn't it true that some people or families who have superlative IQs (like Mensa intelligent) are due to the genetic mutation of both parent who are also carriers of this dominant genes? Afterall, IQ is polygenic, which means that it is influenced by two or more genes that makes it possible for IQ or any dominant trait, as hereditary by 75% - 86%. And i know it's not from every single generation though (my mistake). Sometimes it's more likely that the grandchild or great grandchild will inherit the gene. Besides, did I say it's merely hereditary though? If you read further, I did have same prognosis as you are regarding other influencing factors that affects the variability of intelligence. Socio-cultural and environmental, right? (Although we might have a different explanation IDK) I learned in early studies in biology (as we all have access to the subject) that our genes are a combination of many, and some experiences we have from external factors affects the effectiveness of these genes. So if you're wondering, I'd say both plays an important role in passing the nueropsychological and neuro aptitude examinations. Deep knowledge vs broad knowledge. 😊
I didn't suggest that, I pointed out that IQ has been changing per generation and therefore cannot be genetic based (at least as a major component). I agreed with the rest as I stated. The issue is genetics cannot explain this IQ generational growth. As for the genes themselves, their are at least that we know of, 52 of them that influence intelligence (and I would point out that environment does affect your gene expression as you mentioned. Obviously it plays a factor but the percentage is what I am arguing based upon the information we have, not whether or not it is a factor (which it most definitely is)(hence pointing out how most overlook epigenetics as a possible answer for some of the descrepency). I would also point out that IQ test have been rathe flawed, they have actually changed them to now include five different tests so whether or not that will affect the data that has already been gathered isn't really known to my knowledge as of yet. I wasn't arguing against anything you said, I was arguing against the emphasis on the genetic (again, the question isn't whether or not it plays a part but how much of a part. I think its less then what most think (again, I lean towards epigenetics playing a bigger role and I think people underestimate its impact (as it is the only mechanism to my knowledge that can create those changes within such a short period of time).
Alrighty boss, you got it all pointed out.. Your epigenetic emphasis won over my genetic explanation.. I just meant to answer the initial question in layman's word because I'm sure not everybody knows about epigenome or gene alterations for that matter. But it is rather informative, thanks to you... But isn't it epigenetic inherited somehow?
Mmmm, I dunno about the particular IQ tests. All I had was a series of neuro exams that's been divided into more than five categories on restricted time (the most pressuring 2-hours I had in my life)... If I remember it's like 10 or 11 excluding neuro-ophthalmology. That's how I know my IQ level. But anyway, thanks for the enlightenment. Liked it..
Epigenetics is weird, and I'm no expert, but it is inherited but not like genetics. Its a much more short term alteration and far more maliable then genetics is so its hard to really describe. But it would be inherited but it is generational rather then multigenerational i. e. you have greater variability, and depending on how your environment is and your behaviors it will actually alter those gene expressions. Basically if your parents were vegetarian you with epigenetics would be better at digesting vegetables BUT if you went a meat eater diet your offspring would be more inclined towards that. Its genetics but a lot more maliable and deals with short term changes rather then the long term changes of genetics (genetic mutations happen rarely, alterations of epigenetics happens many times within your life time).
Also as I said I know they changed it but I am not too familiar in exactly how it changed only that they included more tests and subsets as intelligence is a bit more complex then what a singular test could show (we have subjective and objective intelligence, mathematical artistic linquistic etc. So having one IQ can be rather misleading (I point to Kim Peaks for example who had an IQ of 84 yet was a mathematical genius)). I'm not sure what you mean by "excluding neuro-ophthalmology".
Neuro-opthalmology is a test for color blindness thats related to brain processing. I'm not sure but some professions requires one to undergo that test. It's also quite proven to be hereditary although lot of prognosis are more connected to medical condition.
Okay I have never heard that as a test for color blindness (I know it was related to seeing and the brain structures for it). Yes color blindness is hereditary, most of my brothers are color blind. How ever I've never heard it as related to brain processes. To my knowledge it was due to the cones in the retina (though that could be different with full color blindness (which is much rarer). Also yes, their are profession that require you to pass a color blindness test, like pilots.
Lack of education and ignorance.. They probably don't know that the world's first civilizations originated from Sumer and Mesopotamia. Not to mention ancient Egypt and India. The Chinese also invented the compass, umbrellas, gunpowder, the world's first seismoscope, paper and printing. The Arabs the numeral system we're using today. If people from Africa, Asia and the Middle East are dumb, how did they invent all these things?
PS: please don't thumb me down again CuriousNorway. For some reason, you usually tend to disagree with my opinions, which is fine, but at least tell me why
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Opinion Owner
+1 y
There's a reason Pakistani are the best hackers and Silicon Valley is full of Indians
I’m not aware of people that say that. I’m aware of people that think that ethnicity is a factor as some research like The Bell Curve may indicate such, but that’s presumably different than nationality
Intelligence is a combination of education and upbringing.
Places people consider not as high IQ also lack a good education system, let alone basic needs like clean water and food, health, and so on.
Most would say America has pretty well educated people, but we also have a heavy emphasis on education in our country while some other countries dont have as well educated educators or education systems due to lack of money and so on. America tends to remove highly intelligent educators from their native country and bring them into our country, making our access to good educators far superior to many.
However I would say somewhere like Japan has a far more rigorous education system and also a far more rigorous emphasis on doing well in school from family and educators. To the point where something like the SAT's in Japan are life defining.
Its why so much talent comes from Japan.
Intelligence does have some genetic influence as well, but in my opinion genetics play a minor role in most cases. Some people are born savants or extremely gifted, but anyone can achieve the same level of talent with enough desire and determination to do so with a strong support group encouraging you to do so.
It's not nationality, it's race. National boundaries are artificial, separating often genetically close people. People believe there is a difference because there is a marked difference on testing (White IQ between 100-105, East-Asian 105, Sub-Saharan Africa 70, African-Americans 85, who are mixed, for example), and economic social achievement. Just look at the civilizations created by whites and Asians (e. g. Rome, Greece, the British Empire, America, Imperial China, Imperial Japan, etc.), and then compare it to a whole lotta nothing in Africa, and even in the Americas (i. e. Inca, Aztec, Maya) came thousands of years after early White/ Asian civilizations to offer only a modest comparison.
It's not race either. Racial identity is highly superficial as well.
Race and IQ disparity simply shows a correlation, but correlation doesn't mean causation. It's individual genetics (as well as the environment) that determines IQ. Your membership, in a particular racial group, does not guarantee your IQ will be high or low, which explains why there are intelligent and unintelligent people in all races. Also, using averages doesn't prove your point either as it shows IQ varies greatly even within races.
As for the civilization argument, I guess we're just going to pretend that Ancient Egypt, Mali Empire, Songhai Empire, Aksumite Empire and etc did not exist. Also, the Incas, Aztecs and Mayans building the civilizations that they did while being isolated from the rest of the world is highly impressive. They were able to build something without even a reference point, something that most of the empires in Eurasia had the luxury of having. The fact that they accomplished this only a mere 2000-3000 years (which is nothing in relation to the age of our species) after the earliest Afro-Eurasia civilization is remarkable.
Intelligence linked to nationality? sounds like people supporting that nonsense, lack the intelligence they think they are talking about! I don't really put a lot of trust or faith in 'Intelligence' tests, because of how they can be culturally biased, and biased in other ways, based on education. I've taken several, and the scores vary a lot more than I would assume, based on simple statistics. Everyone has their own special gifts, and to judge someone based on a number, from a test, is just short-sighted, and ignorant!
It's true. Other nations tend to have more intelligence because of their school systems and WHAT they educate people about.
However, I highly disagree that North America has more intelligence. We are actually behind quite a few nations and do not educate people on the kinds of things that other nations do. Furthermore, many black Africans are also intelligent. If you actually talk to an African immigrant in the United States, they will tell you things you don't normally hear in this country, and if you ever want to know for-real African history - especially about slavery - you need to talk to an African.
I do not think a lot do but to your point... it isn't nationality... it is culture. For example a lot of Asian countries have mainly intact families and they stress academic success. They take it very seriously and have leading worldwide math and science scores.
The USA in the 50s and 60s had intact families and had teams of engineers and scientists... we launched rockets to the moon and back. A leading math and science leader.
Families fell apart and the government decided to take over education system so they fucked that up. Diversity and social indoctrination is all they are about now... education sucks now... the world rankings prove it.
Some cultures have great schools, teachers and education is stressed, some do not. In some countries girls do not even go to school... it is culture.
Statistically, IQ (which is the best measurement of intelligence we have, is culturally neutral, and is used by the US military to rest the intelligence of recruits) is associated with nationality. Now, on an Individual level, a person with an IQ of 108 is a person of IQ 108 no matter where they come from. However, we dont walk around with little cards displaying our SAT scores. When you see a person, or hear about a person, you have to make assumptions based on what you do know. Stereotypes are the biological equivalent of machine learning, and they're about as effective - assuming someone is statistically average for the group of people who possess their traits is inherently going to be effective.
Xenophobia. Every culture/nationality collectively thinks they are the most intelligent.
I think your post is also from the perspective of western culture, as I’m sure in the Middle East they don’t view Americans as intelligent lol.
I think different societies also have different opinions on what makes a person intelligent. One society may view someone with a knowledge of computers or coding as highly intelligent, but in Africa they may view that type of intelligence as useless and value something else. This can even be used as an example within one society, what good is it to know how to code if you live in a rural area where money is made farming and you’re needed to tend to crops?
The fact is: every nation/culture has intelligent and... not so intelligent people.
18.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Age old racist trope. Look up the Charles Murray debacle, still being argued. People in America point to test scores between the races which sometimes does correlate to blacks being lower, whites being good, and Asians being great.
But I think it’s less to do with race and more to do with environment. The black community is more likely to be poorer and have worse schools (abominable but a fact). Asians are most likely to come from immigrant families who tend to work harder. And white people like myself are given a lot more advantages in life.
Critical thinking and the ability to find variables is the key. And don’t believe my thoughts outright. Do the research yourself.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
Usually these intelligence survey base their idea of inteligence on education, but some of the most inteligent people have no formal education. a lot of people who go to college are not actually that inteligent or educated, they are what you call sloggers who slog their way through a degree with just the bare minimum to pass and even then that's weak degrees like gender studies that you can only get a job with as a barista which if you had been inteligent would have already known before doing that degree.
a lot of it is opportunistic not to meantion structured or lack of. I think that in good ol USof A the chance is there but more than most would rather sleep till noon and party the night off instead but the fortunate few with strict boundaries and repercussions are more than likely to stretch their intelligence for workout because ma and papa are going to make sure their little Metesh lives a better life than they were alloud to educate themselves not to meantion play the cello better. As far as other countries i could not tell you only because I've never been nor studdied daily routine and or habbits not to meantion accessibility to such an intelligent influence.
Because first wold countries have more education opportunities. Many of the countries in the world, kids don't have any schools at all. So your first impression if you hear someone is from the Congo or something like that, is they will be much less intelligent. That may not be the case, but until proven otherwise, that will be the view.
In nationalities witb lower income countries you would assume them to be less educated in general because they can't affirm it and with higher income countries they have more money to spend on the quality of education. Not saying its true for everywhere and everyone but I guess that would be the reason
It is not directly connected to any one nationality. However some are seen as smarter due to there culture.
But pretty much anyone have the ability to be intelligent. If they try hard at it. Just being book smart is not the only form of intelligence though. Things like street smarts or life smarts can also be useful in the long term. Since you have more of a hands on training.
Well, there are countries whose education system just isn't as good and doesn't have any cutting edge research. There are countries that dont have the accessibility to the education that would put them on par as others. Where are the majority of these countries? The places you listed.
However. That does not mean that the people are incapable of being intelligent, or even smarter, than the countries seen as more intelligent.
Because governments continuously promote the notion that their people are the best in the world. In other words they teach others are second best at least.
Nationality doesn't. But your ability to score high on an IQ test is 100% determined by your education level. This is why an ape in the us that was taught from childhood and was used to logic problems scored a 95 while an average human from Somalia where education doesn't really exist, scores 59. There is no objective way to quantify "intelligence" and any existing test is one way or another flawed
Although some of the scores may be questionable, there are a couple of web sites that list IQs by country. I question if Vietnam is only 94 since they are probably closely related to other Asians who in general have the highest IQs. I also question the low IQ score for India since all the Indians I have met are very bright.
Not necessarily nationality because a lot of global migration has occured in the last 100 years or so. However, it is true that people with ancestors who were educated have evolved traits which help the to learn easier from educational institutions and appear to have a higher IQ
I don't know why racists like republicans. Personally i judge someone on their own character and achievements, period. Democrats are the ones obsessed with race. You would think the racists would prefer them.
@MoscowMitch That was a mistake to mention you, sorry.
@MajesticTwelve I didn't know you were a racist. I saw one of your old answers somewhere where you said black men's penises are like poop after you watched an interracial porno before. Yes, you may block me if it helps.
@ManOnFire Yeah I'm kind of racist. So what? I've never kept it a secret. Regardless of my personal feelings, that doesn't change facts, does it? I do love how everyone who disagrees just thinks they can shout people down with the label of "racist" and completely invalidate any point the person may make. Grow up BoyOnFire, people on this planet are free to think and say what they feel.
@ManOnFire I don't really care about your take on anything. You can think whatever you want. Worry about yourself. If your views on things are so correct, you really shouldn't need validation from others on the internet about them, after all, the truth needs no defense. Move on with your life.
@MajesticTwelve I'm not concerned about any validation from anybody, nor is me addressing this subject to you about any search for validation. My posts get enough traction and support, and I wouldn't stop posting even if they didn't. I do what I want because I want to.
I addressed you because of your racist comment I saw. And you defend it as right.
@ManOnFire It is a right, in fact, it's a 1st amendment right. If you don't like what I say, block me and don't read it. I don't have to censor myself, my thoughts, or my words, simply because you don't like what I say. You think being offended by something gives you special rights? It doesn't. It shows me you're a many baby that will cry if he sees something he doesn't like. Get lost, cuck.
Intelligence is determined by DNA. There are huge racial differences in intelligence and personality traits. Look up the IQ map of the world.
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Anonymous
(18-24)
+1 y
"If people from Africa, Asia and the Middle East are dumb, how did they invent all these things?" The answer is that they all had their golden ages and currently its the western golden age. Durring their golden ages they invented such amazing things and one day someone will be asking the same thing about the west. The past is not the same as the present. I predict a new golden age of india to come soon.
Also why ask a question than block all replies when you can block individuals?
Some do catch my attention in positive ways, such as so much great technology coming from Japan, but it doesn’t make me think any less of others in any way. None have a sense of stupidity or anything like that to me.
Because 'murica! Jk, but there is a difference in education ratings between nations, which could lead to people thinking one nation is "dumber" than another
Because studies seem to indicate this to be true. Jews and Asians have the highest IQs. Even if they are born in their countries or abroad it doesn't seem to matter.
Perhaps there are more Indians in silicone valley, where are the Indian Bill Gates and many more white men leading the program in silicon valley. Asians work harder to accept less money for the job.
It's not racism, its science. you can check the research, do a google search for example, the highest I. Q. in the world on average are Chinese people. The lowest I. Q. in the world on average are Africans at just 60-something, but "African Americans" only have an average I. Q. of 85, in spite of generations worth of educational programs to attempt to correct the problem.
It is genetic.
Genes matter. Learn something about the livestock industry. They selectively breed livestock because genes matter.
This is NOT racism. It is scientifically validated fact to 5th sigma evidence. It is literally a Scientific Law at this point, not just a hypothesis or theory.
The science community is well known for being racist and machist. The lack of opportunities or even education can affect to the development of cognitive skills (Poor countries). So this means my friend, you are another racist covered up for slanted researches. Good afternoon.
@AbleLearner If IQ test where based on real life skills and experiences, you would get different results. IQ is relative to you daily lives, not some random questions on things that have no possible use to you.
Put a city dweller in the woods, and no matter how city smart they are and most of them would starve to death. Because they have no nature survival skills, put simple survival in nature questions to and urban dweller and they would score pretty low.
So putting questions to someone that lives in the forest or jungle about science and other things not related to surviving in the forest or jungle. Of course that person will score low on an IQ test, not related to their life experience.
IQ test as they are written today and how they are used, are just a way of trying to say one race is genetically superior to another and it does not stand up to real life. Take a new born baby from every race country and environment, raise them in the same environment same conditions and see if the IQ test supports the bs about one race being genetically superior to another.
LOL. I am not a racist. I am dating a woman from another race. How the hell could I be a racist?
I think the Declaration of Independence is mistaken when it states that "All Men are Created Equal". I'm 100% certain that good science shows all men (and women) are in fact not created equal.
I've never been one to claim that Peer Review was perfect, it's not, but this has been Peer Reviewed by thousands of Psychologists and Psychiatrists, and African Americans score 20-something points lower on I. Q. tests than the rest of the U. S. population, and native Africans score 40-something points lower.
That's not racism. That's a scientific fact, and stating scientific facts does not make one racist or prejudicial.
I could post links to the actual test results or a scientific paper about it, but if you just use Google for 2 minutes, you could find it yourself. So I'll spare the community.
You are wrong about education being the problem. There have been generations of attempts to correct the educational shortcoming among Africans both in Africa and the U. S. and it has never even remotely solved the problem for anybody. In fact, African Americans are doing worse in High School and College right now than ever before, even though we have more technology and educational programs than ever before.
I. Q. tests are designed to test General Intelligence, by asking abstract problem solving skills, such as pattern recognition and "Working Memory". The Vocabulary test is given in your own native language, and if you are bilingual you get to choose what language to take it in, so that isn't the problem either. They are not biased by your city experience or woodsmanship experience. They don't ask you stupid shit like how to skin a deer, or what toppings to put on a pizza.
The tests are Double Controlled to make sure they are not biased in any way. They have found that education provides a 1 point per decade upward bias towards highly educated populations, for example, but they are aware of it and adjust the score for that. Compared to someone like Einstein or Newton, this bias is so small that it does not matter, with this bias it would take 1000 years before the average educated person becomes as intelligent as Albert Einstein.
Sorry, "city vs country" has been Double Controlled for centuries, and has no appreciable, measurable impact on I. Q. scores.
I don't think you know how modern Science works. The Nazi's were racist, but modern scientists are not.
In order for an "Apparent Discovery" to be considered a Formal Discovery, one must rule out all bias and error with five Sigma certainty, which means there must be less than a 1 in one million chance that the data or conclusions happened by chance, fraud, bias, measurement or theory error, or any other wrong-doing or mis-perception.
Just recently, "Dark Energy" was discovered to have FAILED the Five Sigma requirement, and was reduced to a Three Sigma result... after the Nobel Prize was incorrectly awarded to this team. the Science community did the right thing, and down-graded it, and it will probably be ultimately shown to be faulty science.
If they thought that race didn't play a role in I. Q. tests, they wouldn't publish data on race, but the data on race is basically 9-sigma certain that BOTH Native Africans and African Americans severely under-perform the rest of the world population, and every manner of control mechanism to rule out error or bias has already been tried.
They only need FIVE Sigma for it to be considered a Formal Discovery, and they have a NINE Sigma result.
Some lower primates have I. Q. in the 40 to 50 range, which is as high as a retarded human. So the fact the African Average is 60 shows that they are literally evolving into a completely different, inferior species, and I do not say that with any hateful or racist intentions to them, it's just the Scientific Fact of the matter. How many Standard Deviations difference do we need in Intelligence before you are considered a different species?
And I am NOT racist, not even towards African Americans. I have two African American women in mind who I am pretty close to at the moment, not really "friends" but acquaintances, and if they weren't already dating somebody, I'd be willing to date them. A couple months ago, I gave my number to a different African American woman and told her to text me. She did, but it didn't work out, she's too young and uneducated for my liking, but I gave her a chance nonetheless.
Sorry, you are just mistaken about your accusation of Racism on my part.
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