As a non-white woman, I feel more at a disadvantage because I have less money and status than certain people in the upper class. Rich people are allowed to flaunt their wealth in the faces of poor people who are living paycheck to paycheck. Classism is discrimination based on social class. The poor marry the poor, and the rich marry the rich. The rich don't interact with poor people and see them as inferior to them. The children of the rich go to private elite schools and don't have to work the same jobs as the working class. The rich live in segregated communities with almost no crime and can enjoy safe communities. The rich don't watch normie television or movies. Classism became a huge problem as soon as societies adopted agriculture. Hunter-gatherer tribes rarely had this problem, as they were nomadic. Overall, classism is a problem everywhere in the world but it's becoming more of a problem with how advanced technology is, making it easier for the elite to control the poor. Why are we okay with people like Jeff Bezos potentially becoming the first trillionaire? This is messed up.
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I’m more concerned about the technocrats having monopolies and controlling the rest of the population using false consciousness theories of “racism” and other “-isms” to further divide us.
Isn't classism more of a problem than sexism and racism?
As always, you have your finger on the pulse. I agree the issues are of class and not of race but I don't agree with resenting the successful. The internet is a perfect example of the power these people do process. Only 10 years ago the liberation of information online was celebrated and held in high esteem. Everyday people could become content makers and get their voices heard. 10 years later the power structure has gone into full authoritarian mode and is censoring ideas they don't like- the majority of the time without even a reason given.
Who has the ability to censor, control, prevent certain ideas from festering, or challenging their market share? Who has the power to influence such people?
It is complicated, your point on Jeff Bezos for example -It is insane for the likes of him and Trump to be richer than most nations while portions of the world are starving, but think about it practically. If you brought in a wage cap for example- if you said any one individual can only earn up to £1B in their life. You will have the likes of Jeff Bezos (give him credit, he's a smart man who is good at what he does) earning £100M per year lets say, producing £1B+ worth of productivity and expect him to work for free once he reaches the wage cap? This kinda system would ensure the most productive intelligent people retire earlier and less productive people would fill in the gapes.
If you remove all incentive productivity collapses. In Communist Russia, they gave possession of the farms to the lower classes who didn't know what they were doing, and millions starved to death. Let us be practical not resentful. I don't think wage caps are the way to go, but preventing monopolies or international corporations from becoming too big to fail. Close down the central banking system which charges us interest on every note we print, bring housing prices back to normality instead of being artificially high, and rents back down to a reasonable level. I believe these are much better solutions than going after the individual freedoms and liberties that we enjoy in the west. Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes. We have seen how that ends.
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I disagree, I would like to see wealth confiscation, government puts a cap on the amount of wealth you earn and take the excess, nationalizes it. I don’t care if Jeff Bezos worked hard lol he doesn’t need that much money anyways, no one does. The government can then use the money for social services which can then end homelessness. I don’t believe in a free-for-all for individual freedom, we need to care about society as a whole not for ourselves.
I think you are missing the point, it's not a matter of working harder but smarter, he is more initiative then the next man, more forward-thinking. You are arguing for removing the incentive for people to create wealth. Why is someone gonna take a risk, put their livelihood and maybe mortgage their house to start a business, employe people and built up wealth for the government to come along and nationalize it? Only if it is successful of course, these people will leave the country for more favourable conditions. But I agree something needs to be done, I just don't agree with earnings cap.
I agree with you The plutocrats only use race and sex to divide us! Just like they use capitalism and socialism It's just a hegelian dialectic used to conquer us
Things got bad when people applied darwinian thought to economics. We also abandoned the labor theory of value and now no longer value labor we only value capital.
Soon people are going to break out of the dialectic and seek the 3rd way! Distributism
Valid points. I really think classism is related to racism/sexism, so in some areas they have things in common or work in a similar way. I think we as humans have many problems to deal with, but classism is very high on that list. I can't speak about the rasism poc have to deal with, because I am white. But I come from a lower class household and will most likely remain in it because of various reasons. I just wish this was more of an serious topic instead of the wealthy trying to make the general public focus on other issues (which won't harm them) I'm sorry if my English isn't the best, but I think you're right and wish this wasn't so brushed off as 'oh the young just don't want to work and want everything handed to them' or such
its a huge problem, wealth inequality is slowly crippling the world. I work with international aid groups and it can be so depressing to see how the actions of the wealthy can impact the world. Its even worse knowing theirs a small number of wealthy people out there that could basically wipe out poverty and still have the best lifestyle money can buy. People see acquiring wealth as a positive goal in life, its just carving out your own soul.
Very well said. The division is not about race. It is between the haves and the have nots. I am a white male from the deep south. However, I fit within the lower classes and poor white culture much of my life. Trust me! Poor whites get treated very poorly as well. In some ways, we get treated even worse sometimes. Those society often considers red necks or poor trash white trash are seen as being the lowest of the low. For example, the poor people where I grew up often got treated horribly by law enforcement. Since moderrn powers to be seek to divide us, poor whites are rarely even acknowledged or given a voice. This causes them to side with the wrong people. For example, Donald Trump got elected because so many poor whites voted for him thinking he is on their side. Truthfully, Trump doesn't care about them. However, all they hear is the left talk about racism and women's rights. Obama actually did more for them, but they don't hear it. The left needs to stop ignoring American white males in the lower and working classes and be more more vocal about giving them a voice. This will prevent someone like Trump from getting elected. Life in America is brutal for many poor whites. Martin Luther King once said, " the wealthy whites will use the poor whites to make them richer by manipulating them. This is so true.
I would agree that wealth is more important than race or sex. I would much rather be a rich black woman over a poor white man.
Another inequality that people don't talk about is genetic inequality. People who are born attractive and intelligent have significant advantages over those who don't and will have a much easier time climbing the wealth hierarchy. Like if I am born attractive and intelligent I honestly wouldn't care what race or sex I am. To me attractiveness and intelligence are far more beneficial than what race/sex you are.
Classism goes quite often hand in hand with racism and/or sexism. It's part of the problem.
There's nothing wrong if one person makes more money than another, but everyone needs to pay their fair share to make our society work. I feel that many extremely rich people pay relatively low amounts of taxes.
If at least there would be a minimum social security, it would be better. I think this is quite well in most European countries and Canada as well, but in the USA this isn't really a thing. I understand the cultural differences. But too often poor people can't even afford to go to the hospital when they need to, or it's extremely expensive. People need sometimes multiple jobs in order to make enough money for a normal live. That doesn't help either.
No, it isn't exactly an issue. Some people just perform betters than others and in order to stop that, you need to punish success. The very thing that lifted ALL our lifes living standards up. Just compare our living standard right now to 100-150 years ago.
The real problem is that wealth naturally transfers from the bottom to the top, because a) the ones at the top often performed better for various reasons, b) having wealth helps you create more wealth and c) wealth means influence and thus you can influence the environment to your favour.
Unfortunately we have NO solution to this wealth-transfer. It happens in all different political and economic systems and all the measurements we have taken (such as progressive taxes) did more harm than good. Some of the most intelligent people simply can't figure this one out.
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People who are in the poor stay poor, same as the ones in the rich, not all about success, but your family status. I don’t care about awarding overly successful people like Jeff Bezos, he’s a greedy man. Wealth confiscation is the solution, the government needs to get involved and take the excess, which can then be used for social services. You have a selfish mindset, we have a big homelessness and wealth inequality problem.
We tried wealth confiscation a couple of times in the 20th century. The result was about a 100 million dead people. Not exactly a good track-record.
The problem with this is: 1. You DO punish success by doing so. 2. You give government TOO much power so it turns authoritarian. 3. Giving people social services without a condition will lead to a lack of productivity. All data and real life examples are showing that.
I've said for a long time that America is a plutocratic oligarchy. Somehow we assume the rich become that way by merit, while nobody else does. How do companies become huge? What are the ethics behind growing a company.
In my experience, I was with a company that stole money from me in unpaid overtime, while bragging of record profits.
If you're a black millionaire, you will always have more privilege and advantages than a homeless white guy. If you're a trans woman who grew up with rich parents, then your life struggles will be incomparable to that of a straight Christian who grew up in the ghetto. I guess people just don't like to talk about it because your class, wealth and income are technically things you can voluntarily change with some effort while your ethnicity, gender or sexuality are not.
If I had to be class “equal” to everyone I’d start killing for power. Perhaps why poverty stricken places are so dangerous - power struggles at the lowest levels. They all share the same dreary appearance, existence, and lack of innovation. Since this is not the case, I am quite passive and content. I don’t have class envy. However, everyone being the same would fuck with my senses. I have been to those places where everything is painted gray and the people are all equally dreary both domestic and abroad. No thanks...
Thats a lame way to look at it. She didn't mean everyone being miserable. What if everyone is content. To think that somebody has to suffer for others to be happy is stupid. Original human teibes show that perfectly, they are equal and happy.
I know and have interacted with tribes. They have a division of labour and there are leaders. But there are no " poor" among tribes. They take care of each other.
You should learn from them and develop more empathy.
I will leave my empathy to you. My benevolence, my “Noblesse Oblige”, is reserved for those I wish to disseminate it with and not for someone expressing untested smug morality to question me on.
Smug morality? Dude you are being ridiculously edgy claiming you would start killing for power if everyone where equal. People leave in peace and harmony when everything is equal, you are just being a cunt on purpose.
Well the thing is they are sort of related. Racists and sexists lost their cultural war and as such became limited in their way to express their discrimination so they started trying to find indirect ways of doing it. Hence try put all the people you do not like into another group and discriminate against that instead.
There are many form of oppression and they all interlock and pile themselves onto another. For you personally classism might be the worst thing while a poor black man might feel even more oppressed by racism than by poverty. We all have our own, very personal, very complex problems. We should not forget however that we aren't the golden standard of how other people perceive oppression. If we want to achieve a truly equal society we have to acknowledge that fact and fight every system that keeps ourselves and other people down.
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Lol, that poor black man's worry is being poor, not because he's black. Poor black people don't give a shit about this stuff, the BLM protestors are mostly white entitled liberal college kids.
BLM is a terrorist group, and you don’t even live in the states, you live in Germany! You’re a privileged white girl who doesn’t know anything about black people. You said that a poor black man would feel more oppressed by racism than being poor? Really? Do you think they’re dumb or something?
I can read basic definitions and studies. That's a skill people can develop independently from their skincolor, their nationality and their place of residence. Also, we have blm here, I marched with them and it was very peaceful. No terrorising at all.
both are tied into socioeconomics and social immobility which is why most left leaning thinkers consider all of them together as social injustice rather than playing a game of pick one
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I don't think they are all the same though. Classism is obvious but hidden and no one seems to talk about it.
Not at the moment. Racial cleavages in society seem to be more at the forefront of political debate recently, especially in the midst of the BLM protests. Also, some people might argue that class and racial divides are not mutually exclusive. You could make the argument that society pushes certain races into certain classes due to pernicious societal structures. This is where the term systemic racism comes from.
It has nothing to do with being white. If you were in your own country like I am with no white or black discrimination, you would still be poor because corrupt bureaucrats would be fleecing your country
I wish I knew what privilege is. Try being an single, white guy with no kids, I get no hand outs, tax breaks, nothing. All I can do is straps on my work boots and work.
I doubt it because lets be honest how many times do We interact with a billionaires? I have never met one in real life and probably never will because they hang out in their own circle. I have met millionaires before and other than a great work ethic they are generally just normal people and believe it or not You would never know they were rich if You met them in real life.
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It's their influence on society which I am concerned about, many of them have monopolies over corporations in food, technology that influences us. I don't care if they're nice people or work hard. Plus they're hogging all the wealth.
I agree billionaires should not be able to influence our politics unless they run for office. I also think that corporations and billionaires should be limited to one media outlet also to keep propaganda down to a minimum.
Yes it does. Money isn't unlimited. When a small pool of individuals possess a lot of money it reduces the share among the rest. This hapoens between people organisations and even countries. Its pretty much the reason most wars and uprisings happened.
@startingfitness You couldn't be more wrong. 30 years ago were there people who became millionaires by putting up videos on youtube? Where did that wealth come from, then? Why does the GDP keep growing?
No you idiot, money doesn't grow on trees. And if that were the case printing more money would solve all problems. It doesn't it just leads to inflation. One person getting richer doesn't make others richer, it makes others poorer.
30 years ago social media wasn't a sophisticated business platform like today, thats why there were less people in it. But to make a point, where do you think the money these camgirls and onlyfans models make come from? It comes from people who pay for it.
By your retarded logic, it should make those simps richer. GDP is a completely different topic and a countries GDP growing doesn't indicate that people are no linger poor. Go and study econimics because this is ridiculous.
You are a useful idiot who doesn't see the larger picture because you have a small brain. You dont open your eyes and see the real world. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer and you dont see the problem. Even though issues are happening all around you still dont get it.
New industries "springing up all the time" doesn't negate the 100s and thousands of businesses that close down, does it? Answer that first. How many companies are surviving this pandemic with relative easy? Go ahead and tell me about how apple is doing fine. Retard.
@startingfitness once again. Stop being a loser and produce something. Then you'll stop whining about people you're jealous of because they have more wealth than you.
And you have nothing to say other than " go make something" , you are 38 years old and on gag so stfu. You can do anything you want and you will mever be as rich as the elites are. But keep argueing for your elites who enjoy milking the poor as much as they can dumbass. Idiots like you existed at every point of humanity.
No you idiot. Im in college. In fact i study business thats why i have a better understanding of it than you do. Many of my professors are successful entrepreneurs and businessmen. But unlike you they aren't dumb low iq retards who think that the systen is fair. And the dumbest thing is to be an idiot who doesn't see when he is being taken advantage of.
I study economy , finance, accounting, management and statistics. You can't tell nothing because you dont understand any of it. You just listen to some capitalist politicians and think their word is the bible.
Ah there you go. You are a capitalist thats why you are defending the undefendable. My college teaches statistics and facts , there is no political agenda.
You guys are so brainwashed by your politics, capotalists and socialists, both sides are retarded brainlets. You could have been free but you prefer being a minion.
Try to use your brain for this one? Is millions of people losing their jobs and having their businesses shut down a good thing? Or is it all okay because like you mentioned a few youtubers made money?
Extreme captialism is hurting the world and you are blind to it. wake up
@startingfitness No you fucktard. People didn't lose their jobs because of capitalism. Government taking control of what industries can open and which have to close is the complete opposite of capitalism. No one who even went to their econ 101 class thinks that it's capitalism.
Who do you think controls the government? Who funds the government? Big businesses do. So it is the fault of capitalism. Capitalism enables big businesses to throw their weight around and destroy smaller businesses. And that is exactly what is happening.
People like you think that capitalism helps businesses thrive but the reality is that only big businesses thrive while it ahuts down smaller ones. That is the reality of capitalist systems. In capitalist systems the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
You guys who support this system are the exact same as communists who still support communism in the 21st century. Its a nice ideology but flawed and impractical. Ideologocally the opposite but neither of you understand you are being taken advantage of.
printing money doesn't make more money... but wealth is not a fixed amount, it depends on WHEN you print money because money is a measure of wealth, not wealth itself
if someone invents a new way of doing something that is faster... that makes new wealth
@007kingifrit no money is not an accurate measure of wealth. Money is just a medium of transaction. I find it hillarious that you call me economically uneducated while you still dont seem to understand the principle of inflation.
And you too dont see the bigger picture. The amount of wealth there is in this world doesn't change by printing money. Instead it only lowers the value of money. In order for wealth to increase , the substance of value needs to increase. This means there needs to be more oil more gold, more houses, more buildings etc. Things of value.
But in the end none of it matters when PEOPLE CANNOT ACCESS that wealth. What good is more oil when oil prices increase? What good is there in more gold when price of gold goes up? What good is there in more houses when people cannot afford more houses?
Do you have answers to that? Its very basic stuff that kids understand but apparently grown men dont. Kids understand that when one kid has most of the toys that means less for the rest. But you grown men dont see that the resources on this planet are limited and that they are being taken by the greedy rich leaving nothing for the poor AND THE MIDDLE CLASS. if anything its the middle class that gets milked the most. And dont delude yourself, you are middle class, none of you are rich , you are being taken advantage of like everyone else.
@007kingifrit you didn't answer my question. The world only has a finite amount of resources and a big chunk has already been used up. There isn't really much growth in wealth happening compared to n shifting of existing wealth.
And you dont have an argument. Like i said, what good is it if wealth increases when its only the already wealrhy who get it?
@007kingifrit also you said one person being richer makes others richer. That is the dumbest shit i have read on this thread. One person getting richer doesn't make you richer. Especially if they are getting richer off you. Tell me again how rising oil prices is making you richer?
@007kingifrit lol stay delusional 1 percent ahhhahhha. space mining he says lmao. We can barely reach mars and you think we can harvest gold from the asteroid belt? Its not gonna happen in your lifetime.
And like i said, when it finally does happen, waayyy down the line, do you get it? Does your wralth increase? Not it doesn't.
Its mot the wealthy who get wealth? Yes it is. Are you an idiot? Did you get computers for free? Your wealth only increases if you get computers for free. You had to buy it. Which means bill gates got wealthy not you. You got nothing. Bill gates can invest that money somewhere else now. He is the one who is wealthy not you.
@007kingifrit no people dont get richer. Everyone doesn't get richer only a small percentage of people do. Like i said, how do increasing oil prices make you richer? Go ahead and answer that.
They dont make you richer they only make the oil owners richer. Dont be an idiot who says "you just hate the rich" because you have no argument. Grow a pair of balls and speak up against injustice instesd of being a coward.
@007kingifrit you know the funny thing is, you probably had ancestors who took wealth from the rich by force. Many revolutions and wars happened and it only makes sense that most people alive today are descendands from the victorious side. And yet here you are defending the greedy rich people even though they are taking advantage of you.
@007kingifrit change your name to slaveifirt ahaha. All the businessmen i know would have a laugh reading how naive you are and how you think the nice and sweet "wealthy" are making your richer too. "They are fucking you in your stupid small brains" as my finance teacher would say.
@startingfitness look the 3 responses indicates you have deep emotional problems and highly aggressive tendencies you don't collect your thoughts you just spew them all over the place. how many times have you been in therapy at your young age?
you don't have any logic behind what you say just hate
@007kingifrit no im perfectly logical. Im saying that if you there are 10 resources and one person takes 8 that leaves others with 2. Simple logic. You are delusional because ypi dont understand that simple logic.
@007kingifrit and you are resorting to personal attacks because you have no argument against my logic. I ask you again and again, how does increasing oil prices make you richer lol.
Still no answer. I guess your small brain short circuits when you hear that.
@startingfitness You are correct if you're talking about apples. And if you only have one apple tree that gives 10 apples. However, if you plant two more apple trees, then you have 30 apples. That's how wealth works. We create new markets and new opportunities.
And rising oil prices make me richer because I have investments in oil companies. A rising tide lifts all boats.
" And rising oil prices make me richer because I have investments in oil companies". Exactly it makes you richer because you are part of the company. It doesn't benefit anyone else. So no, the rising tide isn't lofting all boats, its lifting your boat. You need to be specific with that, since both of you are claiming its benefitting everyone. Its not.
And the rich get to plant their 8 apples to get more apple trees while you need a permit to plant yours because its their apple garden. And you have to give one apple to plant your remaining apple. and you would need to give them 8 apples again leaving you with 2 apples. So you are left with two apples again like at the beginning.
And thats a nice way of putting it. with how extreme capitalism is becoming you might just end up with 1 apple. So you aren't getting wealthier even though there are more apples.
Think im lying? See how much prices have increased. Did people start making more money too or are they struggling? Has it become easer to get a job or harder? I dont see why you arr trying to mmpaint this nice picture when everyone is miserable?
Yes thats more of a security issue, modelUN. I was talking about wealth inequality. Anyway these 2 delusional oldheads prefer living in their matrix where they think the elites have their best interests at heart.
I dont know how you can live in this world and be so delsuional and disregard the gap between the rich and the poor. They could just ask middle class families how they are doing or poor people but they dont care. Im done with those useless balless punks.
You have classic jealousy. The Democrats have succeeded with you creating hate of the rich. Without these people you would have no job at all, would be living on the street selling your body to strange men. Greed is good, it makes them invest money and build buildings in hopes of making more money. It is called supply side economics and it works no matter how much liberal democrats lie to you that it doesn't. Most rich people end up in Hell after they die , but so will you with your jealousy.
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I do hate the rich, but I'm not jealous. I don't wish to be as rich as them, I believe that it hurts the lower class. Anyone who isn't part of the rich should hate them. The rich hates us poor people so it goes both ways. Greed is not good, that's immoral.
Supply side economics cause the 2008 recession, all the deregulation under Reagan, Clinton, and Bush, led to the recession. It worked in the 80s, boomer but it can’t work in the 21st century. You think you’ll be rich someday edgy 13-year-old libertarian.
I am already, if silver reaches $50 again , i will have $250,000, and if gold goes to $2000 an ounce ,$200,000 more, and I also have Platinum , Palladium, Copper, Nickel, and Copper. Supply side as always worked. It works when Gov't has nothing to do with economy. Gov't prevents it with high taxes, hiring millions of workers it doesn't need , and heavy regulation with environmental bull shit. You can't have a free market system if Government interferes. But losers like you that don't want to work or try beg to live off the government tits. The liberals sabotage the economy and say see it doesn't work , no it works , quit interfering with it. I know it won't work when you try to put businesses out of business. The American liberals are like the Jewish People in bible that would not do what God told them so they went into the wilderness and never saw the Promised Land.
No, I don't live off government welfare, I have a job and I'm a student, you're just a greedy boomer who doesn't care about the rest of society. You support monopolizing corporations. We have a serious homelessness problem and inequality in wealth. And you're old, that's why you think you're better off.
She isn't a liberal or democrat for calling out what should be called out. The rich dont have your interest at heart, you aren't part of their club no matter how much you try. If those people are so generous then how come they have more wealth and power than the rest? How come it became harder to get jobs than before and why dies the gap between the rich and the poor keep widening?
Does trump work as hard as a coal miner or a construction worker? I think he is a bit more comfy than that. And do you know that there are people who are making more than what trump makes and who do very minimal work? Must be strange for you to comprehend that there are people who are much richer than you without working hard at all. While others are working multiple jobs and hardly scraping by. Welcome to reality.
In this world, you get to the top for being intelligent , selfish and plainly lucky. Lucky to be born into the right family. Lucky to be born with good looks. Nothing about this is fair and those of you who think working hard will get you there are idiots.
That's not an explanation, how do you know that it does? Is it greedy? You have to know about how it all works before you can know if it's greed or not.
It's easy dude. When you get enough money, you can buy politicians for a pittance of a price and skew the laws in your favor at the expense of poor people.
I mean, ffs America is already a plutocratic oligarchy masquerading as a democracy as it is.
Okay, so my whole point is the lack of understanding of the complexities about how these systems work. I get that you look at rich people and get salty that it’s not you, but they don’t have vaults of cash they hide away from the public, and most countries design their economy to set inflation targets which encourages spending. By hoarding money you lose money. But putting aside deliberate inflation, it’s just a trade medium. So if you hoard cash, then the value of everyone else’s cash stabilizes to a new value. Money and value are not the same thing.
There is only a finite amount of money. Money isn't a real substance it is only a medium of exchange. It only has value for what can it can be used for. So of we just print more money it will just cause inflation and doesn't solve any problems in the long term.
So since money is finite, if a small amount of people possess a lot of money then that leaves the larger population with much less money which means they have much less access to things which the elites do. This creates a power imbalance and impoverishes people. Its really simple, I don't know what you dont get.
@startingfitness “There is only a finite amount of money.” Not really. There’s as much money as you want to print. The problem is that the value of everything in the world doesn’t change just because you make more of the trade medium. That’s why inflation occurs.
So since whether money is finite or not is irrelevant, if a small amount of people lock away half of the population’s money, then everyone else ends up having to use half the existing currency to trade everything, which still holds the same value. So basically, everyone would have half as much money and everything they want to buy is half price, but it wouldn’t change people’s access to resources such that anyone became impoverished.
But even that does not happen since federal banks regulate in order to hit inflation targets usually around 2%. So not spending money just means it’s slowly depreciating. That’s why most rich people don’t have that much in the way of liquid assets. The value you see quoted for billionaires’ net worth is not money that’s being withheld from you, they literally can’t just hand you that “cash” because it’s not cash, and they *can’t* even turn it into that amount of cash – because not only can they not hand you that “cash” but it’s not worth the same amount if they could give it to you. It’s only worth what it’s worth while they are holding it and in the exact way that they are holding it.
I understand what you are saying and yes the richest people dont literally "hoard their money". But they do invest their money in their own businesses or businesses involving their associates and that way their money circulates among themselves.
So you are right about them not withholding cold cash from us but they are keeping the wealth among themselves. And whatever profits are made goes to them not us. All the while the middle class is getting taxed , the prices rise while salaries dont catchup. And poor remain poor unless they are really lucky or they decide to become wealthy through illegal means. In this way, the rich are impoverishing others. Im sure you see the point.
I am talking about the elite rich and powerful, not the guy next door with a big house and a sports car.
So in a way something similar to what you wrote is happening. Except that its worse. A large amount of wealth is circulating among the extremely wealthy while the rest is accessible to us. But the problem is that a lot of of the resources are owned by them and they set the proce for their products and services. So basically they have their own wealth circulating between them but theynalso have our wealth circulating through them. And they can choose to take as much as they want because they set the price.
Taxes keep rising oil prices keep rising and prices in general are rising BUT salaries are not catching up. You know what that means. Thats how the gap between the rich and the poor widens.
“they do invest their money in their own businesses or businesses involving their associates and that way their money circulates among themselves.” That’s fine though, it doesn’t mean people are being impoverished. At worst is doesn’t mean anything, at best that circulation isn’t totally insular and those businesses being fuelled provide income to lower classes.
“they are keeping the wealth among themselves” See I don’t think so. In order to hold wealth while minimizing depreciation, rich people do things like buy art – which retains value better than fiat because they literally just won’t sell it for less than they bought it and it’s less susceptible to forex market forces. So what does it mean to be rich then? You can live a comfortable lifestyle similar to middle-upper class with similar liquid assets, the difference being that you have millions tied up in fancy paintings that only have value in the eyes of other rich people. But fancy paintings mean nothing to normal people. You can’t feed people with a painting, so it’s not impoverishing people by them having a piece of canvas that we just “say” that is worth a lot -- but really it’s worth is contextual. The worst we can say is that theoretically it can be converted into infrastructure that could potentially benefit people and grow wealth faster, but building businesses is risky and you can not only lose wealth, but you can destroy it. It’s a complicated system, and I’m not saying that you can’t cause financial harm to people, but I think people’s certainty that it’s greedy rich people dragging everyone else down is misplaced.
If the communists and socialists stopped trying to “redistribute” wealth and started focusing on creating it for themselves, then we’d all do a lot better.
“they set the proce for their products and services.” Sort of. There are rules about these things, which provides a socially constructed constraint and then also there’s only so much you can manipulate pricing before it simply doesn’t work, which is a more tangible constraint. But also, the problem is that the prices are actually good. I’m about to go buy fast food, I want to buy from an Australian franchise to keep wealth in the country, but I can get a slightly bigger and better product for slightly less from a US chain. The jobs and ingredients are still Australian of course, but the control of at least a portion of that wealth give up is now American, and that’s because they give me a good deal. The fat cats get fatter not because they’re causing me to be impoverished, they get fatter because they allow me to be less impoverished through better deals.
“Taxes keep rising oil prices keep rising and prices in general are rising BUT salaries are not catching up. You know what that means. Thats how the gap between the rich and the poor widens.” That’s not necessarily the fault of the rich though. Oil prices should go up, that’s expected – it also creates opportunity for alternatives. Taxes I think are tricky, there’s good arguments for flat, progressive, and regressive taxation in different areas. I think I lean more for lower taxes and smaller government, but I don’t think poorer people are going to find relief from simple tax changes – as much as it seems like it would help. The poorest people in the US have an effective negative tax rate and stretching it further just makes rich people leave with their wealth. I think what’s impoverishing people the most there is broadly speaking culture and automation. It makes sense that salaries wouldn’t scale up because of automation.
"you have millions tied up in fancy paintings that only have value in the eyes of other rich people. But fancy paintings mean nothing to normal people. You can’t feed people with a painting, so it’s not impoverishing people by them having a piece of canvas that we just “say” that is worth a lot " that's actually proving my point. if they had invested that money in something which circulated among ordinary people then we could have some use of it. instead they are investing it in something only other similarly rich people are interested in. this is a perfect example of them keeping wealth for themselves.
And you can't create wealth when there isn't much to begin with. The argument that ordinary people should create wealth is absurd. the reason communists and socialists talk about redistributing wealth is because they realized that that is the only way they can attain wealth. They experienced the greed of the rich and this is their solution. extremists don't come out of nowhere.
you don't see the answer if you think theoretical about it. you need to look at the situation how it plays out in reality. and the truth is that rich people don't care about other people. they only care for themselves.
" There are rules about these things, which provides a socially constructed constraint and then also there’s only so much you can manipulate pricing before it simply doesn’t work, which is a more tangible constraint" - those rules only apply to us. they don't apply to the rich and powerful. they can buy politicians, judges, lawmakers , whoever they want. so how exactly is it fair?
and how do you know that its bigger and better. its bigger, but is it better? in principle, if its cheaper its usually not better. food control has gotten better, but food quality hasn't really improved, depending on the country food quality may have dropped.
and yes the oil prices are going up anyway but they are going up too fast for people to afford. when people can't afford it then the benefits stop.
and you are giving way too much benefit of the doubt to the rich and powerful and their hand in the system. I don't know why you are protecting them when news of corruption is all over everywhere. what makes you think that they aren't greedy when all the evidence proves that they are? they are the ones with true power, if they wanted to change the system they could, but they don't. so it is their fault, there is no point in taking their accountability away.
there were times before where nations and civilizations thrived with less poverty and related problems than today. even though they were less advanced technologically. it all depends on the ruler. the people in power make that difference. communism , which sounds nice in theory failed because of bad leadership. Because of human greed. Capitalism in theory is nice to but it too fails due to human greed. The way extreme capitalism is practiced is why the issue, not the theory. I don't know if we discussed that but just to be clear, im not really anti or pro-capitalism. I blame human error.
Not necessarily. A poor person can become rich. Poverty isn't inherent and unchangeable. Likewise a rich person can become poor. On that basis alone, I believe it's less of an issue, even if it impacts you more.
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