Chauvin and Floyd murder trial now, after three days of trial - what do you think?

[msc545]

The third day of the murder trial of the former police officer Derek Chauvin in the George Floyd matter has just concluded, with a lot of prosecution testimony and some defense cross-examination of multiple witnesses. Did you listen and see some of this? If you did, has your initial opinion of Chauvin's guilt or innocence changed at all? If so, how has it changed, and what did you think before the trial began?

[BCRanger10]

Derek Chauvin will be found not guilty. Here's why.

• George Floyd didn't die at the scene.
• Cops are trained to do what Chauvin did.
• The other cops with Chauvin did what they were supposed to do.
• They will have an extremely difficult time proving motive and intent to kill George Floyd.
• George Floyd had both fentanyl AND... COVID in his system when he died (again, not at the scene).

Then there's also the bodycam footage from Chauvin, which shows Floyd being clearly wacked out on something, claiming to be claustrophobic when they tried to put him in the police car, and begging to be put on the ground. Bodycam footage. You know, that thing that everyone was screaming that cops needed to wear after Michael Brown, but then was hidden from the public and had to be leaked online three months after George Floyd.

Derek Chauvin will not be found guilty of murder. The standard in US criminal justice is "beyond a reasonable doubt". The jury will not be able to prove that. At worst, he'll get assault or something like that. But not murder.

[msc545]

@BCRanger10 You said, " George Floyd didn't die at the scene." How do you know this? At least one trained observer, the Fire Department EMT spectator, thought he was probably dead, and the responding EMTs couldn't find a pulse. Do you have any evidence of this to the contrary or were you just expressing an opinion?

You also said: "Cops are trained to do what Chauvin did." There have so far been no allegations of this. Do you have evidence that he was trained to do this by the police department or were you just expressing an opinion?

[CrazyGirl2]

It is actually not just his opinion. It is in fact the policy of the Minneapolis Police to use a knee to the neck of a suspect who is combative, resisting, or presenting a danger to themselves or others. I guess he didn’t get your request. However It is true that the police ARE trained to restrain resisting suspects by placing a knee on their neck. Here is the “evidence” you requested. (Although this isn’t a court of law, so none of us can enter “evidence”, but his claim is accurate and I can back up his claim with documentation.)
www.thedailybeast.com/minneapolis-police-department-trained-officers-to-use-neck-restraint-that-killed-george-floyd-manual-shows
www.kstp.com/.../
That’s only two documents, but if you’d like to read the police policy and procedure manual, that is here: www.minneapolismn.gov/.../...-Procedure-Manual.pdf

[msc545]

@CrazyGirl2 No, that is NOT the policy and you have misread it.

[msc545]

you are not reading the manual correctly. For one thing, the word "knee" never appears. The restraint is done from the rear, with one arm, briefly. NOT with the knees, and NOT using body weight, and NOT from the side.

[CrazyGirl2]

Okay

[msc545]

@CrazyGirl2 It wouldn't matter that much except that the thing that Chauvin did was totally out of policy and it killed Floyd.

[CrazyGirl2]

Okay.

[msc545]

@BCRanger10J ust listened to more testimony. The EMT from the ambulance thought he was dead, observed his breathing, couldn't find a pulse *while Chauvin was still on top of him*. Do you think maybe he was dead then?

[msc545]

*observed his lack of breathing

[CrazyGirl2]

Okay,

[OlderAndWiser]

I have not watched any of the trial. I trust the jury to be attentive and to render a decision based on the evidence, as most juries do.

[Vickymoore9]

I didn’t watch seen a few clips everything is from a personal perspective still. I seen that knee on the video and I’m no genius I’ve always found the officer at fault. But you need to take everything into account the guy had resisted and was on drugs. I think yes the officer on trial was also a 20 plus year veteran who knew better. Unless they pull a rabbit out the officers ass he is pretty much guilty. I personally don’t thing the family should had gotten no dam 27 million dollars. Nor do I think the rookie officers should be charged with anything. The officer who had his knee on his neck was in complete control of the situation. At that point officers are going to have to take responsibility of offenders lives. But at the same time Goerge Floyd was a POS his whole life. This whole case leaves a shitty taste in my mouth from start to beginning. Figure what ever way it goes we are going to have protest and burning buildings in a few months geeezzz

[MrOracle]

Putting a knee to the back of the neck was literally what his department trained officers to do. There is lots of documentation of this, but the media has mostly ignored this because it doesn't fit the narrative. While I don't agree with that policy, it's going to be really difficult to convict him for following his training.
There's also LOTS of evidence of Floyd being on serious drugs. The coroner found fentanyl and meth in his system in the autopsy, the original complaining cashier (the police were called because Floyd passed a counterfeit bill) said he was acting like he was on drugs, and he'd swallowed his stash of drugs when stopped by the police at least one time prior to this.

The problem is that too many people don't want to know these facts and don't care - they saw an ugly incident on video (and it WAS ugly, and again, I don't agree with the official policy of the department, but the neck kneeling was exactly that) and they want to convict Chauvin based only on that, which is WRONG, and is exactly why we have a system of due process and the assumption of innocence.

[David92506]

I enjoyed reading your comment and gave it a "thumbs up." I hope there isn't any burning of buildings! Target and Walmart haven't done anything wrong.

[David92506]

@Vickymoore9
Sorry, forgot to put your SN in my comment.

[msc545]

@MrOracle The knee was on the side of his neck, not the back, as his head was turned to the side. This compresses the internal carotid artery which supplies blood to the brain. Compression for long enough starves the brain of oxygen which is what killed Floyd. No police department teaches this. He had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his blood, but not enough to render him unconscious much less kill him.

[MrOracle]

Again, I'm not defending this restraint technique - I'm appalled by it except in the most extreme of circumstances, which the Floyd situation was no where near. I'm well aware of the risks involved with such a restraint. The biggest problem for the prosecution is going to be the fact that the Minneapolis police department specifically TRAINED their officers to do this. This wasn't Chauvin going rogue - he was following his training.

Floyd may not have OD'd, but he was a habitual hard drug user, and both meth and fentanyl aggravate cardiac issues and the coroner notes that they were a contributing factor to his death, which should be obvious.

The whole point is that the media spun this as "Chauvin the racist killed Floyd because he was black", but there is zero evidence of that. NONE. Instead, there is ample evidence that this police department had awful training and, at most, Chauvin used poor discretion. Negligent homicide or manslaughter might be realistic, but murder 2? Not even close, and he's going to be acquitted, and the place will burn again (as will Portland, Seattle, and other hotspots), all because of a manufactured narrative.

Do we need to mention that these cases of abysmal police training that leads to such issues always happen in cities that the left controls at every level? The very same people who claim to be against racism, but provide such poor training that will be used against the very people they claim to protect?

[msc545]

@MrOracle You said "The biggest problem for the prosecution is going to be the fact that the Minneapolis police department specifically TRAINED their officers to do this. This wasn't Chauvin going rogue - he was following his training."

I am unaware of any evidence that supports your statement. Do you have any, or is what you said simply an opinion?

[msc545]

you also said "both meth and fentanyl aggravate cardiac issues and the coroner notes that they were a contributing factor to his death, which should be obvious."

Again, same question - any supporting evidence, or is this just your opinion?

[Vickymoore9]

@MrOracle yeah I agree with you on your points they are very true let’s hope the jury is very thorough before concluding. We can talk till we are blue in the face we can scream even cry about our points in this case. The unfortunate fact as illegal and unfair as it is this jury may convict regardless if evidence proves her innocent. I believe the jury will judge on a fear of the same riots we went through starting right back up. Living in that city the fact you know Al Sharpton got the names and address of the jury already regardless it’s illegal it’s already in an envelope read to be unleashed. That fact and the jury knowing how this could ruin their families lives. I wouldn’t be surprised he convicted no matter what evidence proven he’s innocent. That being said I don’t believe no innocent person should be convicted of a crime they didn’t commit. I guess hold on to your asses this is going to be crazy one way or the other.

[MrOracle]

This info was made public last July:

www.insider.com/minneapolis-police-trained-to-use-neck-restraint-george-floyd-2020-7
www.usatoday.com/.../

And the autopsy:

www.hennepin.us/.../floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf
www.usatoday.com/.../
[snip]
Monday's medical examiner's report indicates that its finding "is not a legal determination of culpability or intent, and should not be used to usurp the judicial process."

That autopsy found "no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the document, which suggests Floyd’s existing health conditions – coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease – combined with being restrained by police and any "potential intoxicants in his system" contributed to his death.[snip]

This isn't saying that the police restraint didn't significantly contribute to his death - clearly it did and the autopsy confirms that - but it also states that there isn't any evidence of gross injury that would make it the sole cause or even necessarily the primary cause. In any case, Chauvin was using a technique he was trained to use (which is due to the decades-outdated training policies of the Minneapolis PD), and there has never been a shred of evidence that his actions were racially motivated.

[MrOracle]

I'm not a cop, but I have a brain and I'd never have used such a restraint in this situation (it would have to be a suspect who was fighting much more vigorously, and even then, that kind of restraint should only be used briefly), and in my opinion, if the charges against him were more reasonable, I'd say that, despite his training, common sense would have told him that he held that restraint FAR too long on a suspect that didn't warrant it. But the media spun a very different narrative and have (along with the left) pushed for much more serious charges, and short of some crazy new evidence, or the judge not allowing reasonable evidence to be presented, Chauvin will be acquitted of all the most serious charges, because he was VERY over-charged by over-zealous prosecutors.

Chauvin was an out-of-touch cop who forgot what his job was, and maybe enjoyed "cop power" too much, and it resulted in a death that his actions directly contributed to. He deserves to be charged for that. But he's been "convicted in the court of public opinion" of being an anti-black racist on virtually zero evidence other than that Floyd was black. Minneapolis police contributed to the death of a white suspect in similar circumstances with the same restraint technique a year or so earlier, and there was barely a peep of it in the press. Why was one racist and the other not? The answer, of course, is that neither were racist - rather, it was poor training and poor judgement of the officers. That's a real problem, but it's not Murder 2.

[CrazyGirl2]

Not following it! I guess I’m one of those people who believe that being born AFTER the OJ trial was a massive blessing!

[David92506]

@CrazyGirl2
I was watching "Oprah Live" waiting for the verdict to be announced for the OJ Trial. When the verdict was NOT GUILTY you should have seen the disappointment in Oprah's face as her audience cheered and rooted for OJ.

[CrazyGirl2]

@David92506 I will definitely have to look for that on YouTube! One of the benefits of growing up in my generation… never really remembering a word where you couldn’t just Google something on YouTube and see it for yourself, immediately, for free!

[CrazyGirl2]

Okay it’s 2:15pm And I JUST watched the Oprah reaction… it was definitely mixed in the audience, although you wouldn’t have known that to watch JUST the 10 or so seconds after the verdict. They focused on the cheering members of the audience. But Oprah… WOW! She just stood there almost angry, her arms crossed, her posture stiff, her face was stoic to say the least! She was NOT happy about something!

[David92506]

@CrazyGirl2
In the mid 90's things were changing in the USA. I had friends who were Black who believed even if OJ was guilty he should be set free. They cited examples of where Blacks were beaten by police and the police were set free.

[CrazyGirl2]

@David92506 Yeah, but that’s not how our justice system works! Just because ONE possibly guilty gets off, does not mean we have to let another possibly guilty person get off just because they are the right (or wrong) race!

[David92506]

@CrazyGirl2
You are right. I'm reading comments that are saying the police officer should be found guilty regardless of what the evidence says. It's so sad to read them.

[CrazyGirl2]

@David92506 Honestly, I am purposely avoiding reading them! I really (seriously) don’t want to loose respect for people I may otherwise like.

[pokerbot]

I'm not following the trial. I don't wish to do jury duty on my own time. Anyway the defence hasn't presented their case yet.

Gag Users: "We have reached a verdict, your honour."
Judge: "Wait you need to be sworn in first."

[Celtero]

Eh, don't really care. BLM is full of hot shit anyway, so it's going to be a disaster regardless of the outcome.

The true problem is our vile media, and the fact that the average American is incapable of thinking for themselves for a split second.

[na2398]

I'd be elated the day I see WLM or ALM movements. It's not as if only one community is being brutally assaulted. Hypocrisy at its best from the wokeys

[CrazyGirl2]

@na2398 WLM? You ARE kidding, right? I mean America DID have the KKK for a couple hundred years, I’m no fan of BLM, but we ALREADY HAD WLM!!!

[na2398]

@CrazyGirl2 You mean Ku Klux Klan? Well, I do feel sorry for whatever injustice meted out in the past, but have a look at the US- White guilt is on the rise!

[CrazyGirl2]

@na2398 No, sweetie you missed my point. You said that you would be “elated” when we have White
Lives Matter, I’m simply pointing out that for WELL OVER a hundred years we’ve HAD a WLM movement, and they STILL EXIST! Meanwhile BLM has existed for what? TWO years? And white people are running around like it’s the end of the world! Also, wdym “have a look at the US”? You do know that I AM an American, right? I’ve lived here my entire life, and I don’t have any “white-guilt”!

[na2398]

I'm sorry. I get your point, hun! The problem with BLM is that it has been politicized. I know you live in the US haha. I just wanted to point out that a lot of people have white guilt. It is totally bizarre.

[CrazyGirl2]

@na2398 Oh! Then why didn’t you just say that?

[na2398]

Because I didn't know about KKK until you stated it

[CrazyGirl2]

@na2398 Oh, okay well I’m glad I could enlighten you on that.

[na2398]

Thanks a lot for that! :)

[CrazyGirl2]

@na2398 YW 😊

[na2398]

How sweet! :)

[Stoner710]

I think they’re playing this really on the emotional front, But if everyone was convicted on emotion everyone would be in jail. The evidence isn’t there to convict Derek Shawen of anything and according to some people in the news our nation is on trial if Derek Chauvin goes free then it means we’re racist and if Derek Shawen gets convicted that means we have no justice under law

[BarryLiverstone]

Think there’s a long way to go, and networks have lots of soap to sell so it will last a while

[exitseven]

There is plenty of blame to go around.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully these heroes aren't found guilty.

[Iron_Man]

I haven’t watched it

[msc545]

It's painful but interesting...

[Iron_Man]

That’s why I don’t watch it

[msc545]

good idea really.

[Iron_Man]

Thanks

[Anonymous]

i hope that they riot either way