How do cities with the most restrictive Gun Laws still have so many shootings?

[berserk945]

https://youtu.be/qiyXRY8pSZk

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@ItsMeltsMe1989 pen and paper are just words. Its only as strong as the agreement between two or more parties. How you enforce the agreement? The pen was so mighty it caused more physical violence. AKA WWII

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There was recently a shooting that would had been a mass shooting. The shooter killed one person in an apartment complex, rounded the rest up that lived there and was about to execute the others on another guy that lived nearby got his hunting rifle and shot the shooter before he did. Its gotten no attention by the media because it didn't become a mass shooting. If that guy hadn't had a gun of his own, all those people would had been dead

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aleahmelissa94@gmail. com

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https://youtu.be/Oa-blbBw2UE

[Goforit1010]

Why? Because liberals (for some dumb reason) believe criminals will follow whatever laws they put in place.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

Yet this is how EVERY city, with restrictive gun laws, appears to behave. It didn't work in NYC, but it'll work here. It didn't work in Washington DC, but it'll work here. It doesn't work in Chicago, Seattle, L. A., San Francisco, Portland Oregon, Boston... pick a city/state with restrictive gun laws (it's ALWAYS liberals that do this too), and you'll discover they ALL think the same way - it'll work here, even though those restrictive laws don't stop shit anywhere else. And they ALL expect a different result (fewer shootings and mass shootings, lower murder rates, blah, blah, blah). The results prove their laws don't work.

So because those laws are soooo effective in the cities, now the idiot Dumb-o-rats want to push the SAME thing on the rest of the country - because it works so damn well where it's been in effect. Insanity.

[123lucy]

"elieve criminals will follow whatever laws they put in place." - Oh damn, guess we should just have no laws then since criminals won't follow them anyway.

No but seriously, does that not apply to every criminalizing law that exists?

"even though those restrictive laws don't stop shit anywhere else" - You mean apart from other countries that aren't so crazy about guns as the US?

[Goforit1010]

@123lucy - Liberals/Democrats/Progressives (whatever names they want to call themselves) all seem to think their laws will be obeyed by criminals. In effect, NONE of their "common sense" laws (they love to use words that make people feel good about what they're doing), has ANY affect against mass shootings. ZERO, NADA, NONE, ZIP. EVERY gun law enacted and proposed, has a negative affect on LEGAL, law abiding, gun owners.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING any of them has done or proposed as laws, or any combination of laws, will stop, reduce, or eliminate, mass shootings without a massive change to the US Constitution. We're not eliminating the 2A. Libs have attempted to redefine (another cute method they love to use to change the meaning of something to fit their narrative), the 2A multiple times, with zero success (thankfully).

Other countries don't have a 2A in their Constitution like we do. Americans are afforded the RIGHT to possess and own weapons (not just guns alone). You can partially blame schools and parents for NOT emphasizing enough that with ANY "right", comes responsibility. Along with responsibility comes consequences for YOUR actions, and not blaming someone or something else for what happened - another common liberal trait. Other countries have chosen to eliminate private gun ownership. That doesn't mean murders don't happen there, it only means guns aren't the weapon of choice. Knife crimes in other countries is FAR higher than in the US. They use vehicles to kill, home-made bombs, pressure cookers filled with ball bearings, poison, and other means.

[progboy]

Really? Liberals talk about common sense? It must be very different in the US. In the UK as soon as anyone talks about common sense you can be sure that they're going to come out with some over-simplified right-wing bullshit.

It's true that having strict gun laws in only a few American cities won't do much. It's so easy to drive for a few hours to a different state and get as many guns as you want without restrictions. A big problem is the way gun nuts frame the argument. If anyone proposes that it should be more difficult for dangerous people to have easy access to guns they make out that the government is trying to take everyone's guns from them which is utterly ridiculous. Even if the government did want to take everyone's guns the logistics of it would be completely impossible and the uproar it would cause would ensure that the party trying to do it could forget about being elected for the next few decades. No government, even a Democrat one, would would ever consider doing that.

While it's true that other countries with stricter gun laws still have murders and violent crime the rate of these crimes in comparable countries is far lower than in the US. It's insane that the absurd binary thinking of many conservatives stops the US from even trying to address the huge problems they have with guns and crime.

[berserk945]

@progboy You know that all states can't sell to every state right because of their gun laws right?

[progboy]

I never said that they could. There are 50 states in the US each with its own gun laws so finding one where you can easily buy a gun shouldn't be too difficult especially if you buy from a private seller.

[Goforit1010]

@progboy - "It's so easy to drive for a few hours to a different state and get as many guns as you want without restrictions."

Obviously, you don't live in the US, or if you do, you're believing the absolute LIES made up by the left wing media. You cannot just drive to another state and buy all the guns you want without any restrictions.

If you buy a gun in a different state you need to go through an FFL (Federal Firearms License) individual as the intermediary, buy it as a private sale (an extremely rare situation), or buy it ILLEGALLY. If you live in NY, CA, MA, NJ, you may NOT be able to buy the gun you'd like because of those state's gun restrictions. Interstate commerce laws will not allow the shipping of certain guns (and their parts) into those states. It's no where near as easy as you think!

Get your head out of your ass and read exactly how this works rather than make up shit you heard third hand from leftist talking points.

[kkirk4442]

These large cities with gun laws do keep criminals from getting guns from their city. However, states that have lax gun laws, are the pipeline for getting guns into these cities.

[progboy]

So you're saying that gun laws do work then.

[Goforit1010]

@progboy - Gun laws work AGAINST law abiding citizens. They certainly do absolutely nothing to deter criminals from illegally getting and using guns, which are the EXACT reasons liberals use to enact those laws. Liberals think those laws are stopping criminals, when in fact, they are not!

A law abiding citizen in NY or IL cannot buy the types of guns I can, living in OH. Their magazines are limited in capacity, certain guns cannot be shipped there, etc. Those people do not have equal protection against criminals. In several large cities, like NY specifically, it's damn near impossible to get a LEGAL permit to carry a gun, AND it costs you several hundred dollars which is non-refundable if you're denied a permit. Where I live, I can take the CCW course (about $120, and a 1 day course), apply for the permit, and within a couple weeks get issued a LEGAL license to carry concealed.

Lastly, the 2A says, "... the right to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed." That's a "right", not something that needs Gov't permission. Not something that needs a law to prevent me from obtaining. Those last 3 words are completely ignored by liberals, people who hate guns, and those who think guns should be Gov't controlled. It's also WHY the US has so many gun crimes too. With EVERY right, comes responsibility. There are a lot of irresponsible individuals who own guns. At the same time, there are FAR more RESPONSIBLE people who DO own them. With an estimated 400-450 million guns owned in the US, the gun crime is pretty low.

[progboy]

And gun nuts like to ignore the first 13 words, which you did just now. Which militia are you a member of? Is it well regulated?

This may surprise you but I don't actually think that Americans should be disarmed. Guns are so ingrained in the American psyche that it would be completely impossible politically and logistically. There just aren't enough law enforcement officers to do and and I imagine most wouldn't want to anyway. Any party that tried would be in the political wilderness for decades to come. I know the pro-gun people love to scare people by saying that the libs are going to take their guns but it really isn't going to happen.

To be honest I don't really know what the solution is. I don't know where you get the idea that gun crime in the US is pretty low. If you compare the US to similar countries e. g. Western Europe, Canada, Australia etc., even ones with less restrictive gun laws, it has far more gun crime than anywhere else so you're clearly doing something wrong. Government inaction and fierce lobbying from the NRA after tragic mass shootings show that there's little appetite for change and that thousands of dead people a year is a price worth paying to keep the second part of the 2A.

[Dragonpurple]

Don't forget they always think bigger, if it doesn't work at the city level, lets try the county, doesn't work, lets try the state... doesn't work, lets try federal.

Then when it doesn't work on the federal level they will still make up reasons why and blame Republicans or god knows what for it.

[Goforit1010]

@Dragonpurple - Exactly like I originally posted, keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Insanity.

UNLESS.. that's their plan. Then claim guns are the worst thing on the planet (next to climate change, racism, white supremacy, etc...), so they can propose an Ammendment to the Constitution that outlaws civilian gun ownership. Democrats can be excessively sneaky that way.

[exitseven]

Because gang bangers don't care if gun ownership is illegal. In the city where I live the gun laws are pretty strict. If you get caught with an unregistered fire arm it is a mandatory year in jail. This is never enforced because the only people that would get arrested are gang bangers and that would be racist.
So they let the criminals walk around with illegal firearms and everyone wonders why there are so many shootings. A poor old lady was killed just sitting on her front porch a couple of weeks ago.

[exitseven]

Thank you for the MHO

[crazyish]

😂🤣😂🤣 seriously? That's why it's counter productive and dumb to restrict gun laws. Criminals can and will always get their hands on guns. Laws never stopped them and that's never going to change. Restricted gun laws just makes it harder for the non criminals to protect themselves. That's not just with guns.. look at drugs.. people over dosing when they are illegal. Making something illegal never eliminates the issue. When there's a will there's a way.

[purplepoppy]

They have the most restrictive laws BECAUSE they keep shooting each other. Does anyone really think if they had less law these people would stop shooting?

[goaded]

That, and the fact that guns are available a short drive away, in the next state.

news.yahoo.com/...bers-chicago-sues-184307730.html

[Jersey2]

@goaded But a short drive away they don’t have the murder problem the city does. And heroin isn’t legal for thousands of miles and yet it is within walking distance of any city corner. My neighborhood is crammed packed with guns and no problems.

[007kingifrit]

yes absolutely, you would be surprised how polite everyone is when everyone has a gun

[goaded]

@Jersey2 " They have the most restrictive laws BECAUSE they keep shooting each other. Does anyone really think if they had less law these people would stop shooting? "

So, where you are, everybody can afford a gun? Luxury!

[Jersey2]

@goaded Some types of people keep shooting each other. The rest of us are fine as we have been for two hundred years. There are about 300 million guns in the US and they won’t just disappear but if the did new ones would come up through Mexico courtesy of China and Russia. They would be as easy to get as drugs but only the criminals have them. Or they would be manufactured in the US as people do that today both legally and illegally.

Two hundred dollars will get you a decent used gun, you can pay less as well. Five hundred for a new gun and of course you can spend more but I have bought a brand name 9mm pistol and AR 15 for five hundred each.

Our guns protect us not just from criminals but from a government that can become abusive… many don’t trust the government and being armed scares the hell out of those who would abuse power. The government doesn’t care about the gang banger, they want an unarmed populace and that will never happen no matter what laws they try and put in place. The local law enforcement through the Sheriffs have signed pledges and stated that they will not comply will gun confiscation laws if passed. People will not give up their guns or register them as that is the first step in gun confiscation.

[goaded]

@Jersey2 "Our guns protect us... from a government that can become abusive… being armed scares the hell out of those who would abuse power."

No they don't, and no it doesn't; what is far more likely to happen is a minority party with no morals will convince civilians with guns to help them try to overturn elections they can't win democratically.

There are no "gun confiscation" laws even being proposed, it's a paranoid fantasy. Even Australia and the UK have guns, you just have to have a decent reason.

[purplepoppy]

Village has problem with speeding traffic.
British solution: lower speed limit through village and install traffic calming measures/speed camera.
American solution: scrap speed limit and encourage people to buy a fast car.

[Jersey2]

American solution: enforce speeding laws and use it as an opportunity to check driver for warrants, insurance, license, registration, smell for drugs and alcohol, do a visual of the interior of the vehicle for anything possibly illegal. If illegal things are noticed search car, search passengers and driver, arrest those involved. More arrests this way and less criminals.

[goaded]

@Jersey2 Especially if the driver is a member of those "Some types of people [who] keep shooting each other.".

[Dragonpurple]

@goaded We do have a decent reason, Right to bear arms... that is all that is needed and I'm part of a militia, all civilians are... the peoples militia.

[goaded]

@Dragonpurple That's a very recent right-wing conceit. I'll just note that Saint Reagan introduced gun control pretty quickly once the Black Panthers started carrying.

[Dragonpurple]

@goaded I support Black Gun Matters movement, I'm a constitutionalist which these days means I am a right winger for wanting to follow the constitution as written, with the current amendments.

I also support reasonable gun control so long as there is no poll like tax on it, no fees on owners to exercise a right. Even a background check fee is wrong, but I don't have issues with the government doing them all for free.

[goaded]

@Dragonpurple And yet it took 200 years for gun advocates to find a supreme court that would say anything other than the Second Amendment only protected the states’ right to maintain a militia, not an individual’s right to possess firearms.

Who do you honestly think better understood the original intent of the amendment? The Roberts court in the 21st century, or people who were around when it was written?

[OlderAndWiser]

Because criminals don't. . . criminals don't. . . criminals don't obey the law!

REALLY!

[progboy]

Let's get rid of all laws then as criminals don't obey them anyway.

[berserk945]

Laws are based of morals, there is nothing moral about banning guns.

[OlderAndWiser]

I agree!

[OlderAndWiser]

Previous responder - progboy - was just a keyboard warrior who posted their comment and then blocked me so I couldn't respond.

[progboy]

I haven't blocked you. Knock yourself out.

[OlderAndWiser]

@progboy Right.

[KneeDragger]

Do people really think a sign will stop a crazy person/s from going into the area with a gun/s if there is a sign posted on the front door saying, "No guns allowed?" It makes sense that most mass shootings happen in areas where having a gun isn't allowed. Even insane criminals realize that in a grade/middle/high school or a movie theater where guns aren't allowed, that is the best place to die in notoriety because there is nothing like an actual physical barrier or a person with high training who is going to stop the threat.

Everywhere in countries like Great Britain or Australia where they banned guns "with great success," what eventually happens? In both countries they have huge numbers of crimes committed with knifes, Australia has exceptionally high. Sure, guns are banned but the citizenry are weaker for it, to the point where people cannot protect themselves and they will be attacked and potentially die.

If you would like to know what will eventually happen, just look to history of the countries of the world. There is also a reason why our Founding Fathers gave us the Right to Bear Arms with the 2nd Amendment. We need to thank James Madison who wouldn't sign the Constitution without any of the first ten Amendments in place.

People need a way to protect themselves, the police are not going to be able to get everywhere they are needed in record time. If a state/city allows the citizens of the area to carry concealed, what do you think the likelihood of that population to be attacked? If someone breaks into the house where I live, should I just allow them to take all they can carry and potentially rape my family? Or would the ability to protect myself and my family mean something to a threat?

I know where I prefer to be.

[Dragonpurple]

That statement about when a lawful gun owner stops a crime, never hits main stream media... unless lawful gun owner does something wrong, say shots a innocent or bullet passes through a wall and get someone else. It happens thousands of times a year.

It doesn't fit the narrative of main stream media when things like that happen.

I myself had to shoot a guy who came at me with a knife, there was no way I was going to win a knife fight ever... I'd be dead had I not been carrying. If my state was liberal, I'd be dead right now. I have a huge scar where I got slashed and stabbed and will have permanent life time scarring that grows into my bowls and every so often has to have another surgery to clean it out, which then makes it even worse. Doctors don't want to do anything if they can help it to prevent causing more scar tissue that could cause more blockages.

The criminal that attacked me did not die, which is good. I did not want to kill him, I just wanted to stop him. Thing is he is long out of prison but I still have life time dealing with this crappy scar tissue the rest of my life... where is the bleeding heart liberals concern for me and this issue? all I get is crickets from them... or sympathy but no real effort to do anything. That criminal should be paying all these medical bills and all my missed work for the rest of my life... but nope.

[BeMuse]

Eventually they'll get to the point where they take away city dweller's guns. Then it will be a free for all like Nazi Germany... They use to just line people up in rows and go to town when people had no means of fighting back... That's what Democrats dream about.

[Miristheiss]

Usually because areas with the most restrictive gun laws are always democrat controlled areas which will usually have a big city with a bad area of town... a high crime, high gang, high drug use area of town... a "projects". New York, St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans, Baltimore... etc.

These projects are full of illegal guns and guns used by criminals. Gun laws are moot to criminals. There is an entire underground, illegal gun trade. Gun laws mean nothing to all of the high crime, endless shooting areas of Chicago. There's a shooting every day. I'm not none of these guns are legal or were legally purchased. It is all gangs and criminals and robberies, gang activities, home invasions... etc.

[supercutebutt]

Because restricting guns is like having a no peeing section in a swimming pool. Guns are EVERYWHERE in my backwards country. Any lunatic can easily get one and shoot it at anyone they like, anywhere in the country. Conservatards like that sort of thing. They have heads filled with cottage cheese. Fortunately, they often kill themselves. A Trumptard in my neighborhood blasted himself in the cottage cheese a couple months ago. Sadly, he murdered his 15-year-old stepdaughter prior to doing us all a favor and ending himself, however. :(

[BCA6010]

The short version is because criminals are more likely to get froggy when their victims are less likely to be armed.

Major cities also have pathetically long average police response times. Not sure what NYC is at right this minute, but 8 minutes was the norm for anything at the highest level of urgency not too long ago. I can say from personal experience that a shooter with training could clear out a decent sized building of other trained shooters in that amount of time; relying entirely on law enforcement to protect unarmed people is idiotic on the best of days.

[Kaneki05]

Let's put it this way, If a country has set up legal ways to get guns into there country. Then One part of that country bans guns.
You still have the problem the who structure of the country allows guns in therefore it's not hard to take them illegally into that one part that banned them.
It would be the same as saying Cocain is legal in most parts of the country then one place in that country bans Cocain the drug dealers would find it so easy to smuggle it into that one part that it is illegal.
Gun control can only been done by all illegal or all legal. Having it only lean one way but not fully don't work.

[berserk945]

Even if we banned guns we still would have illegal ones being trained among criminals

[Kaneki05]

If ya took down the whole infrastructure of how they get in and how there sold. The numbers would decrease by a lot. Sure there will still be cases. Like how we have in england even tho all banned. But it's much less than america's. Just due to we have much less easy way for them to get into are country. Not a hard logic really, less easy to get them in are country less there are.
For america it would take so long for the full process just due to the fact they've had them been flooding in ever since USA was created. If it was never made into an amendment 100%, there would be much less shootings in america. But the founding fathers could never predict there would be such advance guns in the future compared back to then with super slow hard to use guns so they thought it was fine and it did kinda make a bit of sense back then when first developing a country. But now they themselves would be like eh...

[berserk945]

You don't have the cartels on your bourder.

[Kaneki05]

No one is saying trained officers cannot have guns. Like the ones who protected the boarders. If they have security on them and checked people for guns/drugs whatever else on the way in. Like they should be anyway. That would be a small risk factor really. But yeah is much easier on island.

[berserk945]

Have you seen our border? Its why we wanted the wall. But Biden put a stop to the wall the the cartel can keep bringing in illegal guns and drugs. Actually the Obama administration let a bunch come in so they could track them and catch those buying or distributing them, but guess what they didn't follow through with it so now those guns are being used by criminals to kill people.

Guns made in the US or imported all go thro Federal Firearms Lincence holders to perform background checks before going to the individual.

[Kaneki05]

That sounds more like your country doing a bad job at building security which is whole other convo. And the point is not that guns are sold to people with licences so shrugs. Wasn't talking about that. Was simply talking about having weapons coming into your country legally means there is much easier way's to sneak them in illegally into another part of that country. Its a pretty simple logic that.

[berserk945]

What about them being legal makes it easier for illegal guns to get in?

[Kaneki05]

Do you need me to explain how if things are in your country it's easier for criminals to get them? I really feel like that shouldn't be needed to explain to anyone tbh i don't even know how to explain that cause it's basic logic.

[berserk945]

The most important thing is that law abiding citizens have the best tools to defend themselves. Taking guns away only makes normal citizens that do get attacked are at the criminals mercy and police arrival time.

[MarkRet]

The gun laws don't really work. Criminals and mentally unstable people will just do whatever they want, and guns are available everywhere. Every time there's some horrible shooting, people will yell, "The government needs to do something to stop this!" The elected officials will push some 'gun law' as political posturing, so they can look like they're 'fighting crime' and doing something about it, but the only people who comply with these laws are people who wouldn't commit a crime anyway.

[Gray-Wisp]

The demographics that do the shootings live primarily in these cities. The same demographics also primarily vote for leftist hoplophobes.

Gun laws won't change it because obviously criminals won't follow laws and many people are too lazy or hoplophobic to own/carry guns, not to mention how many places restrict guns.

If gun carrying 24/7 was mandatory for 18+ would that lower gun crime? Yes.
If we lived in a totalitarian police state that banned guns would that lower gun crime? Yes.
We have neither.

[RCLJT]

I’m surprised I actually have to say this… CRIMINALS DON’T OBEY LAWS !!! You can create laws to Jupiter and back, criminals don’t give a fuck, they get guns the same place the Mexican cartels do, from our inept ignorant government. The only people these laws effect are good law abiding citizens who now cannot protect their families because they cannot have guns. So places like Chicago, New York, California are shooting galleries because only criminals have guns. You can thank leftist democrats for that bull shit, it is 100% their doing.

[legalboxers]

Im in NYC - what they dont get.. its illegal guns. BUT.. If the FAR RIGHT is so much about people having guns and their 2nd Amendment with open carry and concealed carry. Why the fuck can't criminals have guns too.. You want your guns too right. You dont know if the person with a concealed or open carry is a felon (SINCE YOU STAND WITH YOUR 2nd AMENDMENT) you can have your OK Corral and shoot the person right there.. say you feared for his life.. hold them at gun point.. and empty your 12 round magazine and 1 in the chamber.. say you 'feared for your life" and "stood your ground"...

[darkcloud1945]

Our stupid govtmnt thinks that the more laws they put on the books against people owning guns will solve all gun problems
. The only thing it will do is make sure the bad guys gangbangers thieves have guns because they could give two shit s about the law. Plus the defund the cop idiots want no police at all just send social workers to an armed robbery [ yeah like that will work ] and murder locations See how good that worked in England it is so bad they are banning the sales of hunting knives because the murder rate is so high by knife So If THE DIMMOCRATS get their way only the bad guys will have gun and law abiding people are killed IMPEACH BIDEN AND HARRIS

[BlacklightShade]

Maybe something to do with carrying guns across state lines? Let put fences around Arizona, Idaho, Alaska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. and check everyone for guns as they leave.

[berserk945]

This is dealing with cities not states. Why cities have so much crime is because they are vast majority are left leaning.

[Miristheiss]

Since all the gun violence zones are usually in the big cities... more specifically the slums... the projects of big cities... the part of town you don't want to ever go to... like in Chicago which has a few thousand shootings each year. Entire neighborhoods of crime and gangs and drop outs and fatherless homes... crime, shootings, death are the way of life there.

I'd be curious how these other countries compare in having these hopeless wastelands and high crime, gang, drug use, drop out slums... like in Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Oakland, New York... etc.
If these countries don't have these areas... why does the U. S. have them in such high numbers?

Gun laws have no bearing on these areas... they are all illegal guns anyway.

You want to look at the gun itself. I want to look at the people.

[BlacklightShade]

@Miristheiss So you are saying crime is greater in areas where there's more poverty? No way!!!

[berserk945]

@BlacklightShade and guess who causes poverty? The left. Who whsts to remove firearm? The left.

Coincidence I think not

[BlacklightShade]

Democrats tend to be less wealthy than Republicans. Which could explain why Republicans vote for 81% tax benefits to go to the wealthy, policies that benefit higher drug prices, and higher education costs.

[berserk945]

Hmmm I wander why Democrats are less wealthy as you say

[Miristheiss]

No.
Poverty... it can some some affect on crime sure... but I'm talking a bigger picture.

Poor doesn't make people ruthless killers who do not have any value of life.
You can have a wonderful, stable, loving, law abiding family that is "poor".

Drugs, gangs, selfishness, violence and disregard for life... you cannot call that "poor"
The USA is a rich, westernized country. "Poor" is a loose term.
The USA has welfare, food stamps, unemployment, government housing... the poor in the USA are fat and live in air conditioned apartments with TV and phones. Poor is a loose term.

Now whether they have destroyed their lives via drug use and addiction may be another story.
Usually if they have no money... are homeless... that is usually drug addiction. You can work if you want to work. You can get on assistance programs to get back on your feet if you choose want.

Crime, robbery, home invasions, endless drive by shootings and murder... that is usually gang related and fatherless kids growing up raised by the street and gangs rather than a father.

Why the fatherless, broken home levels... are rampant in certain inner city areas is a different issue all together.

Just being poor isn't a black/white issue in high levels of certain types of crime.
Like I say... I'm sure the "poor" in the USA have it much better off then poverty is other places.

[007kingifrit]

@BlacklightShade actually democrats make more money than republicans, and tax cuts help EVERYONE become richer by encouraging investment

[BlacklightShade]

@007kingifrit - So called "trickle-down economics" which is a hoax. Rich people use the money for stock buy-backs, stock investments, and savings with very little investments into things that actually help anyone but themselves

[007kingifrit]

@BlacklightShade wait do you even know what stock buybacks are? stock buybacks help the middle class

if i own stock in X company and they buy their stock back... my stock value goes up meaning i have more money for retirement. stock buybacks are a GOOD THING

and did you say stock investment doesn't matter? more than half of americans have their savings in stocks so if a company invests... the American people win

thanks for proving trickle down economics works lol

[Soteris]

Because Americas gun problem needs a multiple step solution. Just because you have taken a step in the right direction does not mean you have made a significant difference when you are trying to travel a massive distance. Even if you did every correct decision the time it would take to fix USA would still probably be over a generation.

[JennieF]

We don't enforce any standards anymore, which is the root of the problem, but the reason it happens in places with restrictive gun laws, I think, is because the law-abiding are disarmed but the criminals aren't.

[The_Maphio]

Getting a gun if you want to do something criminal is fairly easy. If you want to be a law abiding citizen and get a gun you have to go through legal paths that cost wise or just hassle wise might not be worth it.
Also read, strict regulations on weapons is a great way to simplify criminal lifestyle.
But I suppose that some people are too dumb for simple logic. Especially those who'd contest the fact that 2+2 is not 5. Looking at you, American liberals.

[jshm2]

It's a spurious correlation.

Just like countries with high spending on science and technology have the most suicides by hanging or suffocation.

There are many different reasons for gun crime, and most are nothing to do with laws or regulation.

[DarcRefractions]

They have the most lenient policing and jail time served. These people don't believe in mandatory minimums or stop and frisk.

[berserk945]

Thats exactly what the offer in time Square was saying before cutting him off. Lol he wasn't saying more gun control he was saying stronger punishment for criminals.

[DarcRefractions]

I agree. More black people like me gotta speak up its the only way.
White Liberals and black woman are gonna protect. Bad men.
It sucks that it's 75% time us. I'm not a criminal so harsher punishment won't bother me
And drug offenses need to be charged higher

[berserk945]

Glade to hear! I'm sorry if you get accused of being a sell out or Uncle Tom tho

[DarcRefractions]

I do. But Doesn't bother me. What bothers me is I'm trying to help them. They the ones who live in the ghetto getting shot by their own men.

[goaded]

If you stop and frisk someone and find a gun, what then?

[DarcRefractions]

If they a felon put them in prison for mandatory minimum of 15 years. Plus what ever else like payroll the crime. Etc
If it's linked to a crime they get mandatory 15 years or higher.
If it's legal then nothing.
I'm a big fan of body cams because it protect the officer and civilians.

[kingofthellamas]

The basic problem is founded on two misconceptions:
1 That guns provide a defence against people who would seek to do you harm
2 That guns keep the government scared of the people
Both of these points fail on calm analysis.
Sadly, too many Americans can not see through the romance of the gun and get very excited about the possibility of living in a safer gun free nation.

[Anonymous]

Once you make something illegal you end up having no way to regulate it. Take alchool, it was banned 100 years ago so instead speakeasys and illegals bars opened with no drinking age, consumption restrictions, etc. Once it was legal again they could enforce it. Right now there's places to buy illegal firearms prett easily. Guess what? There won't be waiting periods, ammo restrictions or restrictions on automatic weapons.

[Anonymous]

The city in the USA with the highest gun murder rate is St. Louis. Gun laws are very weak there. Doesn't that disprove your theory? If we had strong national gun laws, then we would have far less murders. Just look at Canada. Murder rate in their cities are 1/10th what we have in America because they have strict gun control laws.

[zagor]

No; reread his headline. His point is that strict gun laws don't help, not that they increase crime.

Canada has a different culture in their inner cities than we do. Does any city in Canada compare to St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, etc? Mexico has stricter gun laws than the US, as does Brazil, but both have significantly higher murder rates. So much for your 4th sentence.

[Opinion Owner]

@zagor You are just cherry picking, 40 European countries all have strict gun control, and very few gun murders. USA has extremely (almost insanely) relaxed gun control laws and have incredible amounts of gun murders, mass murders, and school shootings. Dude, it's not worth it.

[zagor]

Yet many Latin American countries have strict gun laws and out-of-control murder rates. Who is cherry-picking? And many US counties have lower murder rates than most European countries. If you discard the stats for the 30 worst US counties the US rate is probably comparable to Europe's.

[Opinion Owner]

@zagor lol, that isn't anywhere close to true. Let's just take mass murders and school shootings with guns. The usa is AN ORDER OF MAGNITUTE worse than every other developed country. You have to delude yourself to think guns and the idiotic culture that surrounds them are not a major problem in America.

[zagor]

Mass shootings get the publicity, but they are a small portion of murders.

We have Sandy Hook. In China a guy went into a kindergarten and killed 9 kids with a knife.

Eliminating gangs would have a MUCH more significant influence on the murder rate than eliminating guns.

[Opinion Owner]

@zagor lol, look up the stats, America has more mass shootings than every other country combined. And the more so. America has more gun accidents than anywhere else (a child dies every 8 hours in the USA from a gun accident). America is psychotic with guns.

[zagor]

You look up the stats. See how many shootings are gang-related.

[Opinion Owner]

@zagor look up how many kids die from gun accidents because of how many guns there are in the USA. A kid dies every 8 hours. Is that worth it to be legal to own a gun? Look at mass murders, America is by far the country with the most mass murders all with guns.

[berserk945]

Kids die due to irresponsible parenting and teaching kids to respect them and storing them properly.

[Opinion Owner]

Or you can not have guns and save thousands of lives? Or are guns more important to you than thousands of people not dying?

[berserk945]

Guns used 500,000 to over 2 million times a year defensively.

[Opinion Owner]

Lol, developed counties with stricter gun control laws have way way way fewer murders, mass murders, school shootings, gun accidents. Gun culture without question kills more people than an anti-gun culture. I think lives matter more than guns.

[berserk945]

Freedom above all else.

[Opinion Owner]

Freedom of life is more important than owning a stupid murder toy

[berserk945]

Murder toy? Its self preservation and anti suppression tool.

Europeans are not free, they are slaves to their government. May be safe but only because the government lets them be safe.

[shalt]

A funny thing. Talk your grandparents. Ask them about guna in school, every old person i know brought a gun into school, had gun in the locker or their truck. Or just had it because, granted I don't live in the city, but if you ever saw the movie idiocracy? Yeah, that's how we populate lmao, it's just dumb people doing dumb shit. Has nothing to do with good law abiding citizens or criminals. Bring back asylums

[slatyb]

Because the country is awash in guns. The "good guy with a gun" theory is just silly. The real question is why does the US have by far the highest number of gun deaths of any western democracy?

[berserk945]

We aren't a democracy.

Why is it silly? It happens everyday!

[TommyMountainFigure]

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"


Fine, just ban the bullets. What will shooters do then? Have to yell 'BANG' instead? That's safer. No?

[Anonymous]

Because anyone can import a gun from any state without strict gun control laws, duh.

But why are gun homicide rates so low where there are strict gun control laws over the entire country, not just a few states? Because abolishing guns or strict national gun control laws reduce gun homicide rates. And Australia, England, Japan, and other countries proved it.

[John_Doesnt]

They don't. States with strict gun laws have lower gun violence than states without strict gun laws. Lying doesn't help, it just makes you look stupid.

[berserk945]

You clearly don't listen to the news. 34 people were shot in Chicago a lone last weekend. Thats a daily occurrence. And Chicago isn't even the most dangerous city.

Also these cities are populated by majority leftist, so why do they have more gun crime?

[John_Doesnt]

oh so you listen to main stream media now?

[berserk945]

Did I say main stream media?

[John_Doesnt]

so just random media?

[berserk945]

Media in general covered it not just mainstream.

[John_Doesnt]

So you just listen to when media hypes up a story and ignore all the statistics?
You have very funny retardation.

[berserk945]

I want to see your proof of states with more gun laws have less violence. I asure you its not. Because Illinois alone Because of Chicago is murder capital of the the US.

[John_Doesnt]

it took me 5 seconds of google to find this: www.cnbc.com/.../...-how-your-state-stacks-up.html

[genericname85]

yeah no. trust the nra. more weapons equals less violent crimes and accidents involving firearms and less shootings. just keep sellig guns. the problems will solve themself.

[berserk945]

Gun laws been being added for over 30 years and still hasn't done anything.

We even had a Assault Rifle ban and it still didn't do anything to change anything

[genericname85]

well i see there's only 2 possible solutions. 1: make sure that weapons don't get in the hands of wrong people. and if that fails (which to me, it looks like it did), get the weapons out of the hands of all people.

[genericname85]

the issue in america is that people are so god damn criminal. it's a country full of criminal fucks, and with a bunch of other issues. so people would probably still find ways to murder each other if firearms were banned... but at least it wouldn't be that easy then.

[berserk945]

It be easier to kill people if their prey aren't armed.

[genericname85]

you made an interesting point there. i know there's not gonna be studies about this but i'd wonder how many people in every single shooting in america had weapons to "theoretically" stop the mad person. i mean i would make the argument that killing armed people is pretty much as easy.

[berserk945]

Its not as easy to kill armed people when you don't know who is or isn't armed. Concealed carry gives ordinary citizens the element of surprise, even tho they are responding to the shooter.

[genericname85]

if it's not easy to kill armed people, then why do shootings always happen in america, where carrying a firearms, sometimes even concealed is legal? i'm not buying the excuse that "just nobody there happened to have a firearm".

[genericname85]

cases where people are actually responding to the shooter stopping them with their own weapon force are super rare events. so you see to me those facts don't really fit together well.

[berserk945]

Because shoots got to places where people are most like not armed. Gun Free zones

You call 500,000 - over 1M a year rare?

[genericname85]

i said it is rare for a shooter to be stopped by people that are armed and that i am not buying the argument that "there just happen to be no armed people around". that "might" be true for "some" of the shootings but is certainly not the case for the majority... sonsecquently that argument that "more weapons prevent such things" is pure nonsense.

[berserk945]

Where is your proof the there where people armed?

The fact is they majority happen in Gun free zones you can't dispute that

[Anonymous]

The different gun laws spanning across state lines are as effective as having a no peeing section in a swimming pool.

[Rangers]

That must be why the state surrounding those zones have the lowest rates of gun ownership and most unconstitutional gun laws in the country. You lose, again

[Opinion Owner]

@Rangers
What exactly are you disagreeing with that causes me to “lose, again?”

[007kingifrit]

if that were true then the areas with no gun laws would see equal or higher gun crime... but they don't

[kkirk4442]

Because most of the guns come from states that have lax gun laws.

[007kingifrit]

that's a lie, if it were true why don't those areas have higher gun crime?

[kkirk4442]

@007kingifrit You obviously ignore facts. It is very true, that many guns in cities come from states that have lax gun laws. And listen to your logic. "if it were true why don't those areas have higher gun crimes?" Your logic is, if a gun exists, there will be a crime. The reality is, that if there is high crime, then available guns make it much worse, and much more deadly. As well, guns in big cities with strict gun laws, often do come from states with lax gun laws. It's a quick and easy source.

[007kingifrit]

aaaaah so its the rural areas faults that you have such high crime... even though you just admitted hte crime is there already with or without the guns

[kkirk4442]

@007kingifrit Actually, you changed the topic from so many shootings, to why so much crime. The initial post was why the most restrictive cities have so many shootings. It's because guns are available, and guns are available in these cities, largely because they are so easily purchased in states with lax guns laws.

[berserk945]

@kkirk4442 Then why are ther not as many shootings in rural areas and the country

[kkirk4442]

Thee happens to be a lot fewer people living in rural areas, so there are fewer people to do the shooting. And you are missing, that many people who live in rural areas commit suicide with guns. And, perhaps you have not thought of this, but shooting only happen where there are guns, and if there were no guns, there would be no shooting. If people in large cities didn't have guns, there wouldn't be shootings.

[berserk945]

Cities have very strick gun laws and they still have more shooting even tho no one is to have any.

Thats like saying if you ban cocain then there will be no cocain. Oh wait, is a huge problem.

[007kingifrit]

stop jumping all around and changing the topic.

PER CAPITA there are less shootings in rural areas. so you cannot use the argument that there are fewer people and thus fewer shootings in rural areas. that simply isn't the cause.

suicides are not important to this discussion either. its not your job to protect people from themselves. that isn't the role of government

[berserk945]

How is that changing the topic. But if guns are highly regulated in cities they shouldn't have any shootings right?

[blondfrog]

Simple stupid its because the correct answer is to just make it harder to get access to guns. I can also name plenty of states with easy access to guns with lots of mass shootings.

[berserk945]

Why is making getting guns harder to get the answer?

[blondfrog]

Because that way mentally ill people don't get access to them so they don't commit mass shootings.

[berserk945]

Known mentally ill people unless turned themselves in to get help lose their right to own a firearm or be in possession of them. Most mass shootings are performed by people that had no previous diagnosis. And the times that there was evidence that they might do something the authorities did nothing.

Mass shootings are a very small fraction of homicides in the US, the biggest problem are these gang wars that kill more people that any mass shooting per year.

[Archerer]

The only solution is to give everyone guns and have them pointed at each other at all times, and anyone who isn’t pointing a gun at you should be shot on the spot because they are a risk to the rest of us

[captain_voidwalker]

Simple because when the average person cannot defend themselves crime rates sky rocket. Eventually people will learn that anti gun nuts have lived in a sheltered bubble thier entire lives and have no perspective on the real world.

[Not_Average]

Liberal states and cities also have the most relaxed punishments for crime. That’s why crime is higher tagged with gun violence.

[Leavesbound]

Because criminals don't obey gun laws and most shootings are done by criminals.

[Rangers]

Because they only virtue signal by taking away people's rights instead of dealing with the actual problems.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Because when less people have legal guns, you get less people giving a would be shooter incentive to not shoot, you also get more shooters who get off a second shot.

[grega239]

Gun laws mean nothing if the weapon was aquired illegally

[Soteris]

Well good. Because most of those guns were not acquired illegally and most illegal guns in USA has its origin in legal gun sales so its still attacking the problem at its source.

[FilmGuy93]

The cities aren't dealing with the problems that bring people to gun violence. You're talking lack of job opportunities, drug addictions, etc...

[hellacray]

Cause the gun laws don't do anything. All it does is make it harder for good citizens to buy guns.

[Waldoe]

because gun laws are ignored by criminals, and the law-abiding citizens are defenseless... and the criminals know it.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

It's just like how cities without gun laws have more crime than cities who never started legalizing guns in the first place.

[berserk945]

Well guns have always been legal here since our founding

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And that's exactly why it's too late to disarm guns now that illegal gun owners got the hand of it. It's still gun's fault why gun violence happens there often compared to countries that never legalized guns from the start.

[berserk945]

Even if we never had guns there would still be a "gun problem" here because of Mexico.

I don't believe Guns simply existing in a country causes gun violence. Violence is violence it will existing with or without guns. Violence existing because of their being underlying problems not just because a certain tool exists.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Except violence alone is not always enough or guarantee to kill. Violence + gun almost guarantees death to anyone. And it doesn't matter what country is to blame. Making guns legal in the first place is the issue talked about here.

[berserk945]

Violence + knife almost guarantees death as well.

Here there were made legal so it evened the playing field and it was to give The People the power to hold the Government accountable.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

What does guns do other than to shoot? What does shooting do to benefit a life style? Can a kitchen work without knife? Can a lumber jack do his job without any axe, saw or chain saws? Well sure you can use guns to defend yourself against wild animals if you're not living in a city but the thing is even back when guns were never a thing, there are always ways to defend yourself against wild animals but after all, the question is talking about cities here. Also FYI, knives are already a thing even before civilization so was there guns before civilization?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Comparing guns to the other tools, the only purpose of a gun is to kill.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And ordinary civilians are not suppose to be in a position to initiate divine judgement to anyone unless they're certified officials who's job is to do so.

[berserk945]

So ordinary citizens are just slaves? They shouldn't have any power?

Guns are the most effective tool at self defense when all other courses of action fail. Yes they haven't been around as long as a knife but they have existed for well over 600 years ever since China accidentally developed black powder. So you can't say they are new either.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Because you like to view ordinary citizens as a slave just because they don't have the rights to own guns. Really is not even comparable to actual slavery like what the real African americans faced back then? How is it impossible for you to start a business or become a successful whatever field your studying without owning guns like what does it have to do with it if you are considering them as slaves? Guns are the most effective tool in self-defense but it is also the most effective tool in offense. And i said before civilization started. 600 years ago is not that old by earth's standards

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And you know it also depends on what you call self defense. Someone trying to slap you and you shot the person in exchange is also a form of self defense. If you are not being specific, self defense can be just anything and can be just as immoral as being an offender. But i'm not saying you shouldn't defend yourself but i still like to bring out how self defense can be unfair.

[berserk945]

Exactly thats why guns are the ultimate equalizer.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And as for the self defense culture, this is exactly why people in example united states have really bad communication with one another. You're all expected to do everything by yourself because you all have guns. Not all but thats just a hyperbole. And this is exactly why there are so many political issues going on and people are so divided despite them being so free to do whatever they want.

[berserk945]

No we have so many issues because of different ideals and we are the biggest melting pot in the world.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Biggest by comparison but it's a slight difference compared to Canada and UK which are also big melting pots. The thing is they just never started guns unlike the wild west making it a trend.

[berserk945]

Because the people are more enslaved than we are, they alway were under government control and don't have true freedom of speech and don't truly have the right of self preservation. Its been so long that thats how their cultures are and accept having less freedom.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You just repeated that "enslave" notion again which is what I already talked about

"Because you like to view ordinary citizens as a slave just because they don't have the rights to own guns. Really is not even comparable to actual slavery like what the real African americans faced back then? How is it impossible for you to start a business or become a successful whatever field your studying without owning guns like what does it have to do with it if you are considering them as slaves? Guns are the most effective tool in self-defense but it is also the most effective tool in offense."

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You already have a lot of things you need in the USA to survive. It's a first world country where people are barely starving and you call yourself "enslaved" if you don't get guns? This is what im talking about. Greed

[berserk945]

Without the right to bear arms you are truly not free. Because if the government decides to ignore its people, Without guns what can you do?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

That's just how you interpret "freedom" anyone can also say it's not true freedom unless anyone can fly planes, unless anyone can own nukes, unless anyone can just go to the moon or etc. Feeling oppressed just because of whatever silly reasons. That's indeed a first world problem

[berserk945]

Tell that to the jews that lived in German controlled Europe before and during WWII

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Still comparing not owning guns to jews oppressed by hittler? Oh sure you can also feel like those jews because you can't eat your new cereal because you have to finish the old one you just open.

[berserk945]

Without how we view firearm we would not be the nation we are today or the soul super power.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Then tell that to China who also happens to be a global super power in terms of military and also mass production. Despite their issues going on in there, no country is perfect and that includes USA with so many issues as well. The difference and comparison here is they don't own guns they're safer https://www.quora.com/How-safe-is-China also if you so call them "oppressed" i would say disciplined is more accurate and if they're really slaves, they all have the opportunity to be millionares and a lot of them are.

[berserk945]

No they are not a super power yet. Super powers is able to take on 3 large scale wars simultaneously. China has nothing close to our tech and individual training. They are catching up and so is India.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

worldpopulationreview.com/.../world-superpowers then i can give you a link about those. All links talking about super powers there's always china in it. If you're such in denial about it can you even explain how it even got the title?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

deloitte.wsj.com/.../ and here is more

[berserk945]

We have the largest active force in the world. Our navy and air force is so large that all the main powers of the world combined still don't match our force.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Which only made a slight difference to it's runner ups. Also, while your country may have a "better" military, it doesn't always mean it's better at anything else. China is also the best mass producer in the world and even better than USA but does that mean anything?

[berserk945]

Yeah best at poluting the earth as well with cutting corners on CO² emissions. Best at orphaning girls because of religious reasons. We use to be the best producers in the word, but all those jobs went to china because of how much cheaper things are made there.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Also the best at looking for ways to clean the environment as we continue producing for you. But promise producing country they are not that dirty compared to other countries that don't even produce. But they are filthy anyways. And the reason why china produces so cheap items is because they have better equipment that can make more things than any other factories in the world. You cannot blame china that every other countries including the USA with so many debts buying from them. Also i am not saying china has no issues but it doesn't or form in us a has no issues. But still has nothing to do with gun laws but the issues here we're talking about is gun violence which china has less of it

[berserk945]

Maybe so but also just means that everyone is venerable to criminals. Everyone is helpless when criminals have and government have the bigger stick.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

But then again if they are so helpless, why are there a lot of successful people there? Really though there are those people experiencing living in china but they don't have problems with it yet they feel safer like the example i gave. The problem with us you just like to cherry pick with a problem here to make the issue you're talking about a less of a problem.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And while other countries have less issues with china, it seems like only you usa seems to bash on them a lot. While you control the world news media, it's easy for your media to be so one-sided about the situations there. Isn't that like a fear that someday they might surpass you usa? Because really it's starting to look like it

[berserk945]

I am talking about self preservation not success here. People of China are being ruled my a dictator, the government can remove anyone they want without a trial, they have no freedom of speech, can't own anything to defend themselves with against criminal.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Or it just seemed like they're "ruled" to you because of their choices. Really tho, it's ironic that you tell want them to be free yet you still feel like you hate their choices. What makes you so sure that they really "can't" or they really "won't"? Is china even a broken country? Is china even like north korea? FYI, no. Because they can speak up if their government has gone too far. Chinese government just not allowing guns for chinese citizens to own is not a big deal for them. Why should they make it a big deal for them? I thought you want them free, yet there you are being a supremacist telling them what they should do.

[berserk945]

If any even thinks about standing against the government they are eliminated. Thats not a choice.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Or you mean to say standing up with their government like how the USA citizens do it like thrashing, vandalizing buildings, threatening the cops, swearing, tantrum and more things. Because yes that's a good reason to eliminate someone. This is exactly why they don't do that but debate with a proper manner and they barely get executed that way. USA in the other hand, no matter how proper you reason out, there are always SJW that's gonna scream at you even if you made a point. Worse, they can kill you for it so difference is?

[berserk945]

Lol glade we see I to I on SJW's, trash people.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Too bad there aren't any on those "overly free" country.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Oh and before you say people in China are just so sad, last I checked, their suicide rate is not even as high as USA suicide rate. Not even close.

[Twalli]

Because it doesn't work when they aren't widespread. If you can drive 3 hours and buy a gun out of a dude's pickup truck it doesn't matter how strict your city's gun laws are.

[007kingifrit]

1. nobody buys guns like that
2. if your concerns are valid why don't we see higher gun crime in areas with lax gun laws?

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit we don't if we look to areas that have universal gun laws. Japan and Australia for example. The Yakuza, organized crime in Japan, won't even let their members carry guns because the gun laws are so strict

[007kingifrit]

this conversation is limited to america. why don't areas in america with lax gun laws have high gun crime?
the answer is that GUN LAWS CAUSE GUN CRIME

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit only when they aren't widespread

[007kingifrit]

you didn't answer my question: why don't areas with lax gun laws have gun crime?

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit they don't have more crume than those with stricter gun laws Iin the YS because what constitutes a crime with a gun is different.

[007kingifrit]

nothing you just said makes any sense. areas with low gun crime and ease of accessing guns do not have different definitions of crime. federal crime is federal crime and everyone uses the same definition

the correct answer is your beliefs are wrong

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit Federal crime hs federal crime, but areas that make it illegal to carry guns make it a crime to carry a gun +1 crime, while those that don't, don't. So we have two people doing the same act where one ja violating the law while the other isn't.

[007kingifrit]

those aren't the kinds of crime we are talking about. murder, rape, robbery... all higher in areas with strict gun laws

all have the same rules of reporting in all places... so you're wrong

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit to save time just give me a lots of all the caveats and exceptions in your questions.

[Twalli]

*a list of

[007kingifrit]

there are no caveats or exceptions. YOU tried to find caveats by not looking at all crime and finding individual crimes that existed in one place and not the other

YOU looked for an excuse

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit you asked about crime. Not specific crimes. You asked about gun laws, not only US gun laws. I can't read implications in this format.

[007kingifrit]

an adult responds to the point someone is making, not the specific wording they used to make it

your technical argument is immature

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit If you stated your point clearly and didn't ask me to guess the implications of typed words it'd be easier

[007kingifrit]

the mark of a reasonable man is he can find a reason for whatever he already wanted to believe: you will always find a way to twist the truth to your fake reality because you're a weak person

for crimes recognized in all areas; places with stricter gun laws will have higher crime per capita

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit focusing on the US ignoring all other contributing factors?

[007kingifrit]

we can't compare across international borders as there are billions of factors that make countries different and its not possible to draw meaningful conclusions from it

"contributing factors" is an excuse to ignore the obvious. more gun laws = more crime in america

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit more people=more gangs

[007kingifrit]

no, gangs operate in all areas of the country. gangs are very prevelant in new hampshire for example... but they do less crime

you know why? because they'll... get shot

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit you're saying that NYC gas fewer gangs than Wyoming?

[007kingifrit]

no, im not counting gangs at all. not in any way relevant to my point

im saying that areas with higher crime have stricter gun laws

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit and I am saying that you can't look at it without considering any other factors if you expect to be taken seriously. Look at it this way. My family doesn't allow any guns on our property. In the 29 years we've been here there have been 0 shootings. To use this is an argument to say gun laws work is pretty stupid. To say there's more crime in an area without looking at anything else is equally asinine.

[007kingifrit]

your property is not the same scale. totally irrelevant. but we can compare 2 counties or states

and what we find is the places with more gun laws always have more crime. no other factors are needed

[Twalli]

@007kingifrit if you don't want to make a compelling argument I agree.

[007kingifrit]

every1 is more polite and less willing to break the law when everyone is armed. this is proven by red states vs blue states

[pigoat]

You tell me not to do it something

It makes me wanna do it even more

[front2back]

Because those cities are also known for being our greatest strength.

[007kingifrit]

what? that wasn't a very articulate answer

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Obviously it’s not a gun problem, it’s a people problem.

[OddBeMe]

Because they’re the most populace and are surrounded by guns stores just beyond city limits.

[Archerer]

Finally some logic

[OddBeMe]

Funny that city by city laws never work too well

[JesseJayNeak]

Criminals don't follow the law. Citizens do. And since they can't afford weapons they get robbed by armed criminals

[Anonymous]

People are just getting stir crazy and gun laws don’t stop outlaws, you cannot even have a gun in Manhattan but criminals carry them

[Jakeofalltrades93]

because its the people who don't follow the law doing the shooting

[msc545]

People have guns, and are also apparently pissed off.

[najekim]

Because the mind dead idiots knows nobody will shoot back.

[JamieLoves]

There are insane people wanting to kill!
Not hard to figure out..

[007kingifrit]

that's an overly simplistic answer; there are bad people anywhere. why does it only manifest in certain places with the strictest gun laws?

[JamieLoves]

@007kingifrit
I don’t have the answer. It’s very telling and interesting.

[NoManTwo]

If cities got drug delears and gang members off the streets 80% of gun violence would disappear.

[jimmy2]

There it is take guns, away from people criminals get them anyway

[Oppressed_Leecher]

criminals laugh at your gun laws

[Oppressed_Leecher]

socialist Brazil has some of the strictest gun laws on the planet and gun crime is extreme and rampant. criminals make their own guns and kill cops and military daily.

[Oppressed_Leecher]

the recent house party shooting was caused by a black guy.. just saying

[HongKongMong]

Criminals don't follow gun laws

[sixtyeightplusone]

because liberalism is a mental disease

[Gespenster_division]

Nobody informed the criminals?

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

Why do guns have to exist?

[Oppressed_Leecher]

why not lohow else will we fight tyranny?

[Oppressed_Leecher]

slap each other to death?

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

you don't need guns to fight tyranny

[Oppressed_Leecher]

okay how will we fight tyranny?
and do you think china by your no gun rule?

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

The pen is mightier than the sword

and it's not china dude

ITS FUCKING RUSSIA

ITS ALWAYS BEEN FUCKIGN RUSSIA

STOP WITH THE FUCKING CHINA

TRUMP, AND HIS RUSSIAN COHORTS, ARE PIECES OF SHIT, WHO DESERVE TO ROT IN HELL

[Oppressed_Leecher]

WHAT ABOUT BIDEN AND HIS COMMUNIST OVERLOAD XI ZING PING AND THEIR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY? STEALING US PROPERTY?
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE ALL THIS NEW TECH AND CLONE PRODUCTS?

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU"RE FUCKING TALKING ABOUT, YOU FUCKING IDIOT

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

Huh, interesting, i pointed out the truth, and i still didn't get MHO

how like a republican, fucking idiot