Yes, but the point is largely irrelevant. Relations between states (and in this case peoples" in the international arena are not determined by morality, but by power.
It being wise to recall the words of Thucydides as paraphrased by Victor Davis Hanson: "Power, not justice... is always the final arbiter of state relations; self-interest, not morality, is what guides and must guide the behavior of states. Appeals to mercy or hope for reprieve are misguided, not rooted in logic or a realistic understanding of human behavior."
Insofar as the current Mideast situation is concerned, the conflict was born when under the Balfour Declaration of 1917, the British - then the imperial power in the region - made what is today Israel a homeland for the Jews. This being affirmed by the United Nations Organization after World War II.
As to who may stake an ultimate claim, under international law, the area was divided into two states, but the Arab states rejected this and attacked. In the end, the attack failed and the whole area became Israel and the Arabs who lived in the region considered themselves to be occupied.
As to who has the historic claim, it is lost in the mists of time. Strictly speaking the Jews arrived in the region well before the Arabs. The Arabs not arriving in the Middle East until 636 AD - long after the Jews had settled the region. The Jews themselves having not been native to the region but having arrived from the Semitic tribes of Mesopotamia in about the 2nd millennium BC.
Suffice to say, a problem with that historic an ancestry is not apt to be settled by appeals to the historical record, much of which is obscured in the mists of time. The twist being that a PALESTINIAN people - as opposed to more generic Arab peoples - is a recent invention. Born primarily in the 20th century as an outgrowth of - in another irony - European imperialism.
Thus, Palestinian national identity is relatively thin gruel and why, in fact, it has become less of a force in the Middle East. Indeed, it is why the Palestinian cause is now led mostly by pan-Islamist forces - see also HAMAS. Pan-Islam being a forced that defines identity not in national terms but in religious ones.
The further irony being that after the Palestinian nationalists supported Iraq against Kuwait in the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War, the Arab states began to abandon the Palestinian cause. Such today that the principle benefactor of the Sunni Muslim Palestinian Arabs is Shiite Muslim Persian Iran.
Thus today, the current fireworks in the Middle East is more deceptive than not. The Palestinian cause - as a nationalist cause - is largely dead. Being more akin to a civil rights movement than a nationalist cause. The Arab states have largely abandon it in favor of peace with Israel as a counterweight to Iran.
The Palestinians, never having had a deep sense of national identity, are recurring to a more general sense of Arab and Muslim identity. In this the Iranians are backing them largely as a way to pressure their Arab rivals - particularly Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, the latter two of which already have peace treaties with Israel.
Suffice to add that if Saudi Arabia - keeper of the Muslim Holy Cities of Mecca and Medina - were to make peace with Israel, it would likely split the Muslim world wide open. Particularly along the Sunni/Shiite divide but even within Sunni Islam.
CONT.
As it is Saudi-Israeli ties are actually quite good as both strongly oppose Iran. The Saudis however being understandably reluctant to formalize those relations in a peace treaty, though negotiations are ongoing. It is these negotiations against which the current exchange of fire between Israel and HAMAS in the Palestinian Gaza Strip is aimed at disrupting.
In a nutshell, this is less about Palestinian national identity - which is fading - than it is about Iran's conflict with the Sunni Arab world. The predominantly Sunni Muslim Arab Palestinians finding themselves in an alliance of convenience with Iran, and in effect being Iran's catspaw. It being added that unless things get wildly out of hand, the Arabs are apt to sit on their hands and let Israel and Iran settle the matter over the Palestinian's heads.
@nightdrot SERIOUSLY good post, citing the history, and I learned a lot.
My question is, "It is just FCKING DIRT, why do so many feel the need to fight, and die for this 'dirt' that Jesus, or Mohammed once walked on?"
What is it, about THIS FUCKING DIRT, that cannot be lived, and done, in ANY OTHER PLACE!!
I know many Jews, and MANY Muslims, and they live in the US. THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY from that "sacred dirt" and they live their entire lives, having never been there, or touched it, and they are still following their BELIEFS, and not killing!! Sometimes, they are neighbors, and even share "American Holidays" together, like the 4th of July, eating together, at a shared table.
The Jews bring Hebrew National hot dogs, Kosher, and the Muslims accept that, as 'close enough' to Halal!
"Why can't we all just get along?" --Rodney King
@JackSmy Because it is not just "f*****g dirt." It is their homes and the resting place for many of their deceased.
Trace it back to man's primate origins as a territorial animal if you wish to assign it its' anthropological origins. Alternatively, in the case of the Jews - to use an easy example - look what happened to them when they used any real estate as their home. The ovens.
They learned the lesson. Best to have a place that is all your own in which you reign supreme and have absolute claim and control. Rather than depending on the mercies - which cannot be depended upon - of others.
Man got to where he is via a combination of evolution and history. As man is imperfect and imperfectible, so the solutions he finds are apt to be. However, whatever their flaws and the trials and errors along the way, they have the advantage of having been time tested.
It is easy, in our minds, to be outraged by such things. We, in our supreme reason, can see the obvious weaknesses and costs. The problem with the solutions we concoct in our minds being that "their abstract perfection is their practical defect."
"Equal"
I think your premise and agenda is off.
Why do you expect it to be "equal"?
When Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait in 1990... were the results between the Coalition allies and Iraq equal? No, they were obliterated.
Are we so blind with this new woke agenda that now we even search for equality it military actions?
If one side is winning or dominating a war... that is "racist" or a sign of inequality?
They are indiscriminately launching rockets into the populated cities of Israel... threatening its citizens. Israel is under no "woke" obligations to be equal in its defense of a military threat against its country.
Wiping out the threat is its only righteous goal and objective. If Mexico started launching missiles at the USA... terrorizing populations centers and killing Americans... I'd demand we wipe that threat off the Earth. I couldn't give a rats ass about the results being "EQUAL".
Don't fire rockets at Israel. That is the common sense BOTTOM LINE. Don't fire rockets at Israel and they won't attack militarily. Once you start launching rockets at them... an act of war then does sit back and whine the results aren't "equal".
That government's ONLY righteous obligation is to utterly destroy and wipe out any deadly threat attacking its people. They are better armed... have a standing army and an air force. Hamas and company does not. The results won't be equal. When Hamas starts killing Israeli's and sending rocket attacks... the response won't be equal.
Hence... don't launch rocket attacks against a country. Don't bitch when that country opens a can of whoop ass.
absolutely not Israel is not defending themselves, they are killing innocent civilians.
To be fair, killing innocent civilians can happen even if you’re trying to defend yourselves. That’s because a warzone in a urban area will always pose a risk to civilians, unfortunately.
That said, Israel does of course have the obligation to minimize the innocent civilians it kills.
Opinion
20Opinion
Okay, none of these numbers in any shape or form take into account the sequence at which violence takes place or the actual attempts at which violence takes place.
For example, in 2014 (which the image is referring to), Hamas launched over 4500 missiles at Israeli territory.
Why should Israel hold off on any response just because the Israelis have a sound enough system to deal with such missiles? For all intents and purposes, any missile launched is attempted murder.
In what way is attempted murder okay and requires no punishment just because it didn’t kill anyone?
Sure, we can argue that Israelis strike too many people not directly involved in combat or something like that, but disproportionate numbers in itself mean quite little for a) the sequence at which violence happens and b) the attempts from the Palestinian side.
One can easily argue that the main reasons no more Israelis die is because a) the Palestinians are incompetent (both on Gaza and West Bank) and b) Israel has extensive operations in place to prevent deaths.
Should people who attempt murder be left unpunished because they didn’t get to complete the kill?
The basic idea that Israel tends to defend itself (though you may argue that as the conflict progresses Israel also doesn’t seek de-escalation sufficiently) is that if zero missiles are launched from Gaza, the Israelis are basically going to do absolutely nothing in Gaza. The Israelis are not interested in waging war there, are not interested in holding any land there and are not interested in setting up any extensive military operation there.
The fact is when it comes to this whole issue what matters IS these statistics. Hamas launching whatever at wherever is a not actually affecting people whether they intended it to or not. Therefore it should not be the issue discussed. If you want to discuss it from a moral standpoint, then morally how do you support condemning hundreds to thousands and probably a lot more in the upcoming days of children and civilians over one organization’s “attempted” murder. From a moral standpoint you have no leg to stand on so lets not focus on morals and focus on the issue. The fact that the people of a whole country have been living in fear and been banished from their homes, killed off in bombs meant to abolish their city, killed off because a racist soldier got up on the wrong side of the bed, and killed off period. And its fucking stupid at this point to say Israel is “defending itself” because “you don't get to drop an entire colony on top of an inhabited country, grind those inhabitants into the dirt for generations and then claim self-defense every time they retaliate.” -last part is from a post i saw
Today I learned: Attempted murder should not be punished it doesn’t lead to the murder of the person targeted.
Fucking ridiculous
And for the record, terror does have an impact, even if people don’t die.
Should I remind you that these missiles condemn millions to run towards bunkers every day? How do you approve that by saying “nobody gets killed”?
And according to your post, attempted murder should also not even be discussed because people don’t get murdered lmao
Im saying it should be overlooked in this case because either way israel’s bombing of gaza is not a valid punishment for hamas’ doings, so we can't justify the bombing of civilians and children with “oh they were just defending themselves” and in any case we should be concerned with the lives of civilians period and not look at whether theyre at the side of hamas or not, and since actually dying trumps almost dying it is what should be addressed, and the party responsible for the murder should be held responsible.
Im not saying its not important. Im saying its not important when discussing a course of action in dealing with the killing of all these people
Eh, yes. That is why in war you are allowed to bomb legitimate military targets in civilian areas.
And that is generally speaking what Israel is doing.
Now we can argue that Israel bombs for too long or disproportionately in number. But that is not at all captured in these numbers alone.
That inherently involves the attacks against Israel, which Israel has a legitimate right to respond against. So yes, you cannot disregard that these attacks happen against Israel and they have a legitimate right to bomb military targets in the Gaza strip
After all, Israel has no other way of actually stopping the bombing of their cities except for bombing themselves. And no, allowing their own cities to be bombed in mass but not responding is not what a single self-respecting nation does that cares at all about their own population
Watch these and if you still think Israel is just defending itself then I don't know how to help u
www.instagram.com/.../?igshid=1tell6nqqwucn
www.instagram.com/.../?igshid=nn9x37dc5qz2
www.instagram.com/.../?igshid=1eidabj7k041c
www.instagram.com/.../?igshid=1ro1fdj56le8u
www.instagram.com/.../?igshid=1x08x8bznneba
www.instagram.com/.../?igshid=aai7ehwecris
So what exactly of that is supposed to disprove that missiles of Hamas were indiscriminately launched at civilians in Israel? If that happens and Israel responds, it is always self-defense.
And by the way, footage of Israel bombing or stuff like that isn’t really proof of anything except that bombing happens. I do like that you use Instagram as source material lmao
Yes.
Britain won WWI, it decided to give a portion of the otoman's territory to Israel, another to a completely new concept called Palestine which was just a source of slaves for the otomans before.
Those around acted like hitler and didn't liked the deal.
So they gave been terrorists ever since, hiding behind civilians who only let them hide there because they are cowards who approve of their genocidal message but aren't brave enough to carry it themselves.
So, the vivid fascist state of Israel is just defending itself while it puts a yellow star of David on it's unvaccinated.
Lol!
"How is this a fight between equals?"
You might want to look up the word "Attrition". Pronounced "Ah-Trih-Shun".
What the jihadist savages are counting on is an attrition strategy, that their number of attacks will overwhelm Israel's firepower. Israel, in turn, counts on their firepower to overcome the "human wave" strategy of their foes.
They have always had to defend themselves. They get blamed for every depression and recession. They have a country the size of some people lawns and are told to give up more of it. They offered all captured land from 1967 for peace and Palestinians refused. Hitler tried to kill them all. They have nothing to say sorry for.
War is not about fighting between EQUALS!! Where did you get that STUPID IDEA?
Palestinians send ROCKETS, BOMBS, in to Israeli territory, and kill their people, and destroy property, and they should just take it?
PISS OFF!! How stupid are you!! What person, in their RIGHT MIND fucks with Israel? They are surrounded by nations that HATE THEM and want to kill them, so YEAH, they defend themselves!!
Ok, and posting Statistics, post the SOURCE, so it can be verified, and NOT BULLSHIT!!
Yes, there's no amount of Palestinian lives that would ever equal one Israeli. Israel is home to wonderful people, Gaza is home to two kinds of people, terrorists, and terrorist sympathizers. That's it, and Hamas keeps launching missiles at Israel, they shoot them down and punish them for the missiles by firing their own back at them and they deserve it.
Of course Israel is just defending itself. The only shame is that they’re not going in a lot harder.
Slaughtering children is an unorthodox way of defending your nation, wouldn't you say?
@Sargentcaptain
It’s alright for Hamas to kill Israeli children though isn’t it,
Nope.
Israel killed thousands civils since 1948. Germany did genocide to jewish but they attacked Muslims. If sionists are honest they seek the right to of Germany and another european country. Let them want land from Europe. Muslims have no fault in this matter. On the contrary Muslims always protected the jews. For example The Ottomans protected them when they were subjected to genocide in Andulusia.
Maybe you should be asking why Hamas decided to start the war by launching missiles at Israeli civilians. Surely the money spent on those missiles could have been better spent on Gazan civilians, who Hamas has intentionally endangered.
The part where Hamas attacks first and uses scummier tactics while doing it. They don’t care about casualties and won’t back down, so of course they’re going to have number like that.
When you kill someone attacking you, you’ve successfully defended yourself and the ratio is 1:0.
But how else are they going to call themselves the Israeli "defence" force?
It doesn’t matter if they are equal. If they were attacked they have the right to defend themselves and more.
I think they are, but, at the same time
I ALSO KNOW ABOUT THE FUCKING GOD DAMN EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN PROPHECY
I'm jewish
SO FUCK OFF EVANGELICALS
And where did you get that information - on the back of a milk container?
Yup... you attacked. They’re cleaning you up! You stupid morons! You picked a fight with giants ! Suffer !
the israeli's are the victims here not the palestines
This is all being caused by attacks on Israel from Palestine areas.
Absolutely not, just like blowing up the King David Hotel was "self defense".
We shall consider dont buy killer's products
Report.
I will not tolerate any anti Israeli propaganda on this site
Get a life
Fuck israel. I hope it all gets blown to pieces
@Potatofacebarbie, what country you from? Why you supporting terrorist Muslims?
There is a reason Israel is the most advanced nation in the Middle East.
If things go your way, will happened to Israel what happened to Lebanon.
Never did think that.
You can also add your opinion below!
Girl's Behavior 
Guy's Behavior 
Flirting 
Dating 
Relationships 
Fashion & Beauty 
Health & Fitness 
Marriage & Weddings 
Shopping & Gifts 
Technology & Internet 
Break Up & Divorce 
Education & Career 
Entertainment & Arts 
Family & Friends 
Food & Beverage 
Hobbies & Leisure 
Other 
Religion & Spirituality 
Society & Politics 
Sports 
Travel 
Trending & News 
