How much are parents to blame?

[OddBeMe]

On one hand, all the blame. They raised the criminal child during its formative years. Other hand, individualism.

Mass shooter in middle. Parents who enabled on either side.

All or most the blame. Proper parenting woulda stopped it.

Individualism. We all make our own choices.

Mix: 70% parents, 30% individualism

Mix 70% individualism, 30% parents

Other

A total of 23 votes were cast: 5 girls and 18 guys. See detailed results

[DaisyM23]

It depends on the age - if you're under let's say 16, that's 90% the parents' fault, if you're 16-18 you SHOULD generally know better and that'd be maybe 80/20

But it also depends on the kind of crime - some people are just born with innate qualities and the parents don't have anything to do with it but the environment they grow up in does foster certain behaviours sometimes BUT say someone was abused their whole life and turned into an addict or alcoholic to cope that's not really their fault - it's actually an interesting case when someone who was sexually abused goes on to sexually abuse someone themselves, because that could be a child mimicking something they don't properly understand or it can be an adult doing it to a child which loses much more sympathy

Either way, i think it depends on the age and crime - because people can grow up in relatively normal households but end up fucked up anyways so who knows but i do think the nurture side has more strength than the nature side

[Chazmatazz269]

The ONLY reason we “SHOULD generally know better” by late teens is parenting. Just saying. Socially prescribed behavior MUST be taught. Even “lesser” animals have discipline and social order.

[OddBeMe]

Good points. There is a scary thought that bad parenting can wire kids violent behavior without their choice.

But how that violence is let out is a choice.

[DaisyM23]

@Chazmatazz269 i mean yeah parenting is the big thing but when i was a kid/teenager i spent more time at school than with my parents so parenting is one of the main and longest factors but it's also to do with school, your friends, what you see on the internet as well, obviously internet goes back to parenting but for schools and friends, parents can't control what their kid does away from them, a good kid could fall into a bad crowd and vice versa

[Chazmatazz269]

Indeed. That’s what the old adage “It takes a village to raise a child,” means. And that’s why my own comment on the topic goes into those points. Where the parents can’t be, adult family, neighbors, friends, teachers and administrators need to pick up the slack. That also means dropping frivolous lawsuits. Parents with rowdy kids suing the skools when their kids are reprimanded. The system calling disciplinarian parents “abusive” and then filing charges against them for their kids’ bad behavior because they couldn’t control them without discipline. What in the actual f*ck are they supposed to do? Ell oh ell!

[ohsheeT]

I believe it's all the above but it does start with the parents. . . There are some couples that just should not have kids..

If you cannot put 100% of yourself into that child growing up and teach them morals values and ethics then you should not have children..

If you do not know how to communicate or discipline the child you should not have that child..

Most parents if you pay attention to them it's all about them and not about their child and that's just wrong when you have a child your job is to make that child become 100% better than you are. 24 hours per day you have to be there you are a parent you are their best friend you are their guide you are their teacher you set the foundation because they will become a moment where they are on their own and there's not one thing in this world you can say to change that..

But if you have said that foundation with morals values and ethics love trust and respect you will always have that they will always come to you they will always want your advice even though they know which way they're going to go they're always going to run it by you.

But as a parent you teach your child by action by your words by your demeanor by your tone if you do not set a good foundation a real foundation and honest foundation then you're going to have children they don't have anything they're basically lost and then when they get to the age of where they start following it instead of leading that's where things go crazy

[OddBeMe]

Technically every case is all the above. there's so many facets. But what I like about the crumbley case it proves the parents culpability. Sets the precedent.

I’d go back to sandy hook and if the shooter didn’t kill his mom she’d be charged.

[Chazmatazz269]

I’m in favor of holding parents accountable for minor children. I think a lot of easily preventable accidents, crimes and tragedies could be avoided if we went back to that system. We know that the prefrontal cortex doesn’t finish developing until our mid to late twenties. We also know that that late development has a major impact on our reasoning skills.
It’s my opinion that “progressive” attitudes toward parenting are at least partly to blame. It’s nothing short of insane to suggest that people who prevent their children from doing terrible things through proper discipline are somehow “abusive”, and then turn around and jail parents whose undisciplined children commit crimes. It’s LITERALLY “damned if you do and damned if you don’t”.
That said, it’s not just the parents. Teachers and administrators, hell even skool bus drivers see enough of these kids day in and day out to observe questionable behavior. IF the parents are to blame, so are all of the adults who “just didn’t want to get involved”.

[dustybiker2]

100% + outside forces.
I have a neighbor family like this. "Can do what we want" attitude. Anti social. Parent, stepmother and grandmother (who did a hit and run on my vehicle recently) all with experience inside the system had the police talking to their eldest daughter (16) out front for half an hour, yesterday. Doesn't surprise the neighborhood at all. lol The stepson is the one predicted will be the next local school shooter with a family like this. Is it a universal law that every neighborhood has to have one, or two really bad apples? Further.. can damage be reversed if the kids were removed or just allowed out to play with the other kids?

[dustybiker2]

This sounded like gossip? Did it sound like gossip? 😈 I hate gossip but the rl example came out regardless.

[strateguy632]

we al hav trauma from parent mistake but we don't all choose crime! a criminal is the criminals choice n action only.

any shift of blame from the one doing the action is the woke agenda to increase crime in u. s. blame gun instead of shooter blame parents instead of the one doing the crime. to increase crime.

[OddBeMe]

I’m with you. But I do read about how shit the parents were. And there’s a part of it…”was there any chance for this kid to not commit murder?”

[RainbowMarinade]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
In this case….. absolutely. This child reached out to his parents on many occasions telling them he’s struggling mentally. It breaks my heart to think of this poor child, scared, alone and not sure where to turn….. being ignored by his parents.
In this case, they literally created him for this inevitable outcome.

[exitseven]

It's more a 50 50 split. There are kids that are just psychos and the parents know but refuse to do anything about it. Then the kid goes off with a gun and shoots up a school. Everyone could see it was just a matter of time but people do not wasn't to acknowledge the fact t their kid is a nutjob.

[OddBeMe]

Agreed. Obvi it’s a custom thing per family. But I read about these sick parents who slap their kids around. How aren’t they gonna use violence to solve everyday problems?

[Juxtapose]

It's a small percentage of the parent's fault but most of the fault lies with the person themselves since they're the one who reacts to the trauma and makes their own choices.

We either believe in personal agency or we believe that free will is an illusion and in that case we only punish people to manipulate the behavior of other people.

[OddBeMe]

I agree. I’m totally on the environment over genes. Shit parents should be prosecuted, like Crumbleys, when it’s shown they fucked way up.

[b_lova]

Before I start, I'm a firm 2A supporter.

They bought an admittedly mentally unstable juvenile a gun and pretty much gave it to him. If memory serves he even said that he wanted to be a school shooter and fantasied about killing kids he attended school with.

He needs therapy and they need jail time.

[Anonymous]

I love how in the image you put states that the only bad thing they did was give him a gun. They totally didn't abuse the shit out of him to the point where he hated the world and wanted to take some of it down with him.

[OddBeMe]

As I texted, the image was just an example. Presupposing the image was correct.

Someone did link to the real case which the kid in the pic was a trans girl. But alls fair.

[Opinion Owner]

Ah ok

[OtterMan68]

nurture over nature.

In most cases, parents should have done a better job identifying children who were having problems

[OddBeMe]

Agreed. Each case is different,

[CaptainSmartass]

A little from Column A, a little from Column B.

Simples...

[OddBeMe]

Such a smartass

[RetroReviews]

It starts when they're young how did you raise them did you discipline them or did you enable and cuddle and baby them as much as you could. You must discipline and show tough love or else you are creating a monster

[DrPepper12]

Genetics. Over 300+ traits are baked in regardless of upbringing. Nature seems to be winning over nurture the more we pull the curtains back...

[gorydetails]

I’d love for you to start blaming parents for their children’s crimes.

[goaded]

Oh, here we go again. Either nobody should be held responsible for any of their children's crimes or everybody should be responsible for all of them.

Do you understand the fallacy of the false dilemma? ↗

This is at the same time as Trump's lawyers are arguing (before a court where he nominated three of the justices and the wife of a fourth was involved in the attempt to steal the presidency, none of whom recused themselves) that a president should be legally entitled to order the military to execute a coup or the assassination of a political rival unless impeached. If the coup involved "removing" the opposition in the Senate, how would he be convicted in an impeachment? Hell, with just 1/3rd of the Senate on his side, it couldn't happen!

files.mastodon.online/.../d03e2f4aef854211.mp4

If SCOTUS decides in Trump's favour, Biden should immediately have the ones who voted for it locked up indefinitely and propose a constitutional amendment that restores sanity.

[gorydetails]

@goaded aah, I see. It's always (d) ifferent.

[goaded]

No, strangely enough, that's bullshit. Now answer any of the points I actually made.

[gorydetails]

@goaded lol, go fuck yourself.

[msc545]

Hard to tell...

[OddBeMe]

Agreed. Custom cases,

[Sevenpointfive]

it's his gun dude. let him do what he wants