It depends on the circumstances. If it’s something that’s just to be polite, like opening doors for people, it’s not harmful. I open doors for everyone. If someone did that on a date, I would think it was sweet. But then I would do the same for them.
Some behaviors that are associated with “chivalry,” I don’t actually consider to be benevolent. For example, I find it quite creepy when guys put their hand on my back if we’re walking somewhere. Keep your hands to yourself, thank you.
And then there are cases where it makes sense to give more help to women in *most* cases. I don’t consider that sexism though. Offering to walk a girl home makes sense. Not because she’s a girl and that means she somehow doesn’t know the way home. But because women have a high chance of being assaulted -or worse - if they walk alone at night. Acknowledging that isn’t sexist. It’s just showing concern for someone’s safety.
Giving up seats to pregnant women makes sense. Not just because they’re women, but because they’re pregnant. They have an actual need for it which is greater than most people have. Even giving up seats to women wearing skirts makes sense, so they don’t have to sit on the floor. Because it’s hard to sit on the floor in a skirt without flashing people. But I also think guys should be allowed to wear skirts too. I would give up a seat for a guy in a skirt, if I wasn’t also in one. I also don’t mind when guys offer to carry things for me. Because I have no upper body strength. So it’s actually helpful. Most guys are physically stronger than most women. If there were guys struggling with the same things, I like to believe that people would offer to help them too. And I have plenty of girl friends who offer to help with things like that too. It’s not sexism to help someone who needs something more than you do, even if the person you’re helping happens to be a woman.
Basically, I don’t think benevolent sexism is a thing. It’s either not benevolent because it’s creepy. Or it’s not sexism because it should be done for everyone. Or it’s not sexism because women are actually more likely to need things like that.
"For example, I find it quite creepy when guys put their hand on my back if we’re walking somewhere. Keep your hands to yourself, thank you."
Isn't this completely situational and unrelated to "sexism"? Don't you find it "creepy" because you're not in a relationship with said guy, and you don't want him touching you anywhere, or anyway, yet? Seems to me that the creepiness comes from inappropriate behavior, which is much larger than just "sexism".
Other than that, I agree with your post. I don't think "benevolent sexism" is a thing either. I believe it's about appropriate sincerity. When that's present, and desired, a woman doesn't view it as sexist. And if she LIKES it, well then, it's benevolent !!
I brought that up because there are lots of guys who do that to all women. And they consider it chivalrous. The person who posted the question mentioned chivalry. The people doing this also probably think it’s nice, or that we like it. Meaning that they think it’s benevolent.
So women can't protect themselves while walking home? This is what people mean ny benevolent sexism, some men do these things (like walking a girl home) out of kindness and desire to spend time with the other person, but most do it because you are assumed to be incapable of protecting yourself... which is sexism because it assumes women are inferior to men.
Men are actually more likely to be assaulted on the steet, when women get attacked, statisically speaking, it's normally someone whe knows. I'm not saying that makes it better but statistically speaking, I'm more likely to be attacked on the street than you are. I can quote data and link you to studies on this if you'd like.
I can agree with the pregnancy thing, but that's because it's a health risk/concern, not because she's a woman. Sit on the floor? Pulic busses and trains normally have standing spots, don't they? (I'm from rural areas and I've never been on a train).
If you have no problem with forcing men into doing physical activities for you then do you have a problem with being nurturing and sensitive for your man since women are better at that?
It's pretty rare for someone to offer a hand with something physical unless the guy is really struggling. Sure, family will help you move, but if you expect someone to help you carry in the groceries then you're being ridiculous. You get told to man up. Your guy friends probably offer to help because they want a date with you. I don't know guys who go around helping other men without expecting something in return, that only happens with women and only because the guys are hoping for something instead of directly expecting it. But then I guess it would be a good idea to figure out what you define as "help", like if you were measuring something and needed a hand for a second most guys wouldn't care, but if you're asking them to help you fix something and it's going to take a half hour or so then most of my friends would expect to be taken out for lunch as repayment unless you were in really hard times or you guys have a habit of doing favors for each other. What is an example of favors you might ask for from a male friend?
What if the man puts a hand on your back in order to protect you from some guy who was eyeing you up from across the street? Why is it creepy? You mention that men should walk women home and protect them but also tell us not to put our arm around her protectively? Do we make her feel protected and scare away potential predators or not?
It's like women both want traditionalism and dont want traditionalism, and you really need to make up your minds. You can't want a man who treats you traditionally and with chivalry, but also expect him to not be protective, also, in my opinion, if you expect traditionalism then you should be traditional (in this case a stay at home wife). Imagine the crazy ass guys who want a traditional house wife but they dont want to do their traditional task of protecting and providing? Traditional roles were only acceptable because they applied to both genders, if you expect your man to be traditional while you abandon tradition, then you're being selfish and spoiled, that goes for the genders reversed too.
Then you have terrible comprehension skills. I read what she said and understood her just fine. She’s saying that women don’t need to be protected 24/7 and that we can defend ourselves sometimes. That doesn’t mean when you see her in danger, you don’t try to help. It’s the same reversed.
@Virgo31 they understood/misunderstood what she said as an extreme end so they're responding with their own opposite extreme end which is stupid and unproductive, just an energy-consuming hate train.
I wish more people would think differently and not waste their time and energy with bullshit like this.
You women start most of the shit... ok let’s make this super simple. If a woman punches a man as hard as she can in the face. Should a man be able to return her punch to the face as hard as he can?
The chances a man will be strong enough to help compared to a woman’s different. Women are the weaker sex period this is proven by every trans medal in women’s sports...
Okay... wtf happened here xD... I was saying that no, men are not supposed to think women are some weak helpless beings unable to protect themselves. I was not saying that we shouldn't all act like normal human beings and help fellow people if we can
I understand that, but why should the behavior be discouraged? Why is it even sexism? Opening a door is polite. Feeling a protective instinct toward women and children is an instinct, and one that aids in our survival as a species. It's the men who don't do these things that are more likely to be dismissive or abusive toward women.
@jerdanro Feeling you have to protect someone or take care of someone just because of their gender (and assuming you're basically strangers) is like treating someone like a child...
I disagree. I'm not talking about taking care of a stranger. I'm talking about what the original post says. I'd never pat you on the head and say "there there", but if you were attacked I would protect you to the best of my ability.
@jerdanro We should all feel protective of our fellow people, regardless of gender. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't actively have the impression that women NEED to be protected by men
@Nachowedgie Nah, I don't block people, I just would rather have constructive argument over... you know... name calling and blatant rudeness... Yes... very mature
Agreed, but coming from a place where the streets are fairly safe for women to walk on even at night, you have to understand, that I don't see it exactly the same way. But I do completely agree when it comes to places that are not safe
Agreed. And I'm happy you live in a safe place. My opinion comes from my experience as well. I would never assume a woman is incapable, just more at risk in some instances.
@jerdanro @IveGotNoName @Nachowedgie@VanillaSalt@Virgo31 + 3 others, I would just like to let you know that in my 2 year on G@G, this is the first time that an opinion has had more replies than all the guys who have given their opinion at this point in time 😄 Thank you to Madamoiselle NoName for sparking it 👏🏽
I would prefer to encourage something resembling it although I would not call it sexism since my variant does not have anything to do with a person's sex. If a building erupts on fire and someone -- whether male or female -- is unusually brave and competent in such situations, I think it's admirable if they guide other people (including men and not just women and children) to safety. There should be no need to infantilize or idolize anyone or want to get in their pants in order to protect them when they are unable to protect themselves. Such a protector quality of the proper sort lacking ulterior motives should be encouraged rather than ridiculed.
The last thing I want to encourage is desperate ass-kissing and putting women (or men for that matter) on a pedestal like a simp. Yet the reason I think we're breaking people down into simps or self-serving loners these days is that we are failing to encourage and raise the type of man who can combine masculinity and leadership qualities with a sense of honor.
It's like all the people these days who think "man up" is a hostile and bullying term suggesting that a man should stifle his emotions. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of its origins which had more to do with thinking positively and productively enough to solve problems rather than endlessly dwell on them and complain about them and make them worse.
I think we are failing to raise men properly more often than not and so I think that leads to a lot of confused men. Many of the more masculine and dominant ones often become self-serving like players who exploit women and ruthless bosses who exploit their workers like a lion using its claws to prey on the weak. Many of the less masculine and more submissive ones turn into asskissers who idolize women and resemble their servants like timid sheep who have no claws in the first place. It's the lion who can conquer but also retract its claws in the right situations that are becoming so rare, and I think that's in part because we threw the baby out with the bathwater when more extreme feminist ideologies starting assaulting masculinity in general.
All I know is that one day women are going to be sorry that there are no real men left. That is when they are going to realise that many of the traditional roles weren't so bad and in fact they were pretty good.
I grew up in a family where my dad worked a 9 to 5 and my mom worked 24-7 as a wife, mother, cook, maid, nurse and life coach with somehow enough time to take care of herself and do the things she wanted to do for herself. Even though my dad was the head of the household, it was my mom that really was the glue that held the family together.
She respected my father as a man and he respected her as a woman. She made sure us kids wore clean underwear, brushed our teeth and hair, did our homework and made sure we knew how to behave in public, at school or at a friends house.
My father would defend the family, make sure the broken water pipe was fixed, see to it the trash was taken out, make sure my mom always had a good reliable car with a tank full of gas, made sure she could treat herself and have nice clothes, work long hours in the heat and cold and he made sure we respected our mom and all women. (Ok a few didn't deserve it but you know what i mean)
Their relationship wasn't perfect, none are, but they each had a role that they knew was essential to the success of the family they chose to start. They worked well together and made sure they had some fun along the way. Some of my mom's friends that worked as real estate agents or lawyers would often ask her why she accepts being a housewife and she would say because that is what she wanted to be. There is no problem with women being successful but there is a problem when they don't see how valuable a good wife and mother is to society.
Not saying every woman is supposed to stay home and have babies. These days it is more difficult to have a one income family. But I do see a lot of women chasing a career when they don't need to. Chasing a career while their kids go to daycare everyday.
So they're calling it 'benevolent sexism' now are they? I prefer the 'old-fashioned' term of chivalry, and the world was a much better place when it was accepted as being normal and expected. My understanding of chivalry isn't just about being nice to women, but being an overall decent person with manners. For example, I often hold open shop doors to allow customers who are either entering or exiting to do so safely, because the alternative (to simply let go of the door or slam it in their faces) is disrespectful, rude and potentially dangerous. The people (both men and women) I do this for are always thankful and never rude about it. Chivalry must never die, and as long as I am on this earth it never will.
@devilman666 Did you even read what I wrote here, or did you just skip to the bottom where I say that chivalry must never die? Do you have something against behaving decently and respecting others? This isn't about being 'traditional', but doing that which is right, about having basic manners.
Yeah, I did read it, but I'm still confused. I live in Canada so small politeness is just part of society, it isn't viewed as chivalrous here, as chivalry is associated with "white knights", it goes back to medieval european tales of saving the damsel in distress. So holding the door for people is just politeness, holding the door for a woman because she would be in distress having to open that heavy door on her own then it's chivalry. In my view chivalry is necessarily sexist because it assumes women need men to do these things for them or else they would be in distress.
Would you consider it chivalry for a man you're dating to walk you home or to pay for the date? why or why not?
To many people are narcisists and have no empathy for others. Sadly your comment is lost on them because they only care about their own world and instant gratification.
When did I white knight? Do you know what that term means? It's a man who will defend women no matter what. They always view a woman as a damsel in distress and will rush in to save you from wasting your time in a pointless argument when they can waste their time for you. I don't think I've defended women once in this comment thread lmao. by the way if you want to accuse me of mansplaining, go ahead, I really couldn't care less.
I have plenty of manners and etiquette, you're just mad because I'm not simping for you. I haven't said or done anything rude, I'm merely trying to get my feelings across on why I think men are also oppressed by society, but everytime I try to do so I get shut out by women who refuse to accept their own sexism and hear out the other side. It's like trying to convince your creepy Uncle Ron that slapping girls on the ass as you walk past on the street, is not okay. And he just responds, "It's just a game, harmless flirting, no one's REALLY being hurt by it".
I guess oppressing men and forcing them into traditional gender roles is proper etiquette? If so then I suppose you're right, I don't understand the value of oppressing men and forcing them into traditional gender roles, do you? Can you please explain it to me?
meh no sometimes i think feminism has gone too far. If a guy opens the door for me i'm just going to think he's being nice.. why would i bite his head off for that
Exactly. And men are usually bigger, stronger, and more agressive than women (physically). That's not to say women are weak. Even the wealest femake mma fighter could kick my ass. Also, in terms of the species women are more important. One healthy man can have children with multiple women. Not all instincts are bad. Some increase survival and some are just a sign of respect (like opening doors) Rant over. :)
@jerdanro Agree honestly, my problem with the current feminism (liberal feminism) is that it comes off as men hating for literally anything. Also when there are actual problems in regards to sexism/misogyny, it seems like it takes the focus away from it. This benevolent sexism is very dumb in my opinion, most of it just seems like a guy who's being nice. Then again I avoid the types who spew this drivel
@GirlyGal30 You may not bite his head off, but some women may mistake an act of kindness for a guy wanting sex or persuing a relationship 🤷🏽♂️ I. e. selfish motives
@girlygal20 I’ve been the man yelled at for holding the door. It happened about 8 years ago I held the door for a woman at the milk and said excuse me at Walmart. She started yelling at me in the store like I assaulted her or something.
This was my introduction to the things I hate about women today. Your not free of blame either though. You and other women like you should be far more vocal then these psycho feminists letting men know you appreciate their sacrifice and that these women do not speak for all women. But you have millions of women screaming at men and a handful shielding them... I mean we literally have men choosing not to pursue a relationship ever in their lives. If women like you don’t defend us we’re not going to protect you anymore. Sure you got your husband but what about your daughter? Do you want her growing up raped and assaulted in the streets and nobody responds like videos I’ve seen in New York? Do you want your son arrested for “rape” for helping change a strange woman’s tire? Also got a video of this.
@VanillaSalt That's true and I do talk to some sometimes, and I see your point. I do try but it's very exhausting speaking to some who just don't want to consider that they could tone it down a notch. Don't know what else to do honestly. I just think American women don't understand that the situation is worse in other first world countries (ex. women burned alive by some men). That's insane that some lady screamed at you for that alone, I don't understand acting like that.
If women can’t treat men right then men need to cut them off. But men are thirsty hoes. They won’t do what is necessary. They got sex dolls that can hold a conversation now lol. Fully automated and everything. And the price is less than you think. Sex dolls are prostitutes are the future. But our children if not raised right will be completely screwed.
Sure. A woman and man of equal age, equal health are about to be crashed into by a car you can save one. If you save the woman just cause there a girl that's unfair on the man. Your choice here should just be random or who is easier to save not based on there gender. Like titanic it should of been half men half women who got in the boats not just women. And of course family first father and mother and child. The opening doors thing ya should do that for everyone or no one, or pick out of some other bias than just gender like maybe there your friend.
I have to laugh, many times, and not in a MEAN way, but so many women want this "EQUALITY" but they don't know what it means!! A female friend, that I had recently debated "sexism" with, called me, in the rain, with a flat tire. "Call Triple A," I said, because she didn't "NEED A MAN" but didn't know shit, about her car. She called back, saying it would be a 2 hour wait. SO? Not my problem, I wouldn't want to be "SEXIST" and offer to come help. But it REALLY FUCKING HURT, to go against everything that I grew up with, and knowing, and respecting, caring, loving, BUT SHE CHOSE THAT!! 3-1/2 hours, and almost $200 dollars, getting screwed by the towing company, and not having any roadside insurance, or AAA! Maybe some need to learn lessons the HARD WAY. Is it Sexist, or just something else. . .
I hold open for men and women because I believe its polite. I wash the sheets, clean the dishes, and vacuum because my wife is tired, and she will do the same when I'm too tired. I think this whole "women are oppressed" nonsense has gone too far.
A famous female British politician, Anne Widdicombe, said "women have reached the goal of equal rights, and now that they have it, they don't know what to do with it. Now they are looking for special privileges".
And for a woman approaching 75 years old. Has seen 2 female prime ministers, A Queen reign 60 years, and she herself having served over 30 years in politics, im prepared to take her opinion for it. Bear in mind that women were MPs when she was born. it would be almost another 30 years before the first British female MP, who would later go on to be PM, would take office.
Helping someone has nothing to do with gender. I dont understand the ego of some men just because men are physically strong. I open a door for everyone, help someone when I can etc. You are not something special for helping someone. I dont understand why is a man called gentleman just because he is nice and open a door for example. Sometimes I did not get a thank you for opening a door for a man or helping them and i dont expect them to thank me since you should not want something in return because you help someone. Being a decent human being and having manners should be the norm. This has nothing to with gender. So you are not special when you help women and vica versa.
I dont expect a man to protect me except he is a police/firefighter which is his fucking job and i would tell the same thing about men. Men are not bodyguards and so men are human beings too that need to be saved/helped too.
Not doing civil courage is illegal in my country. So it is common sense to call the police or try to help someone when you see someone in danger. I think should do civil courage if it is possible
So when the police come to your home in the distant future and say your breaking the law because insert unconstitutional reasons here... what do you expect to protect you. I’m curious when the police become the enemy where’s the buck stop because it’s not men’s responsibility?
Wait do you mean that police may become the enemy? We should respect police since they protect us. And i said everyone should help eachother when they can and i also said i dont expect men to help but i appreciate when they help me
because of you. To be honest humans are selfish to an extent. So why should anyone risk his/her life for anyone except for their own kids/parents/spouses
You’re pissing me of you straight up refuse to answer the question. Ignore the strange women getting raped or beaten in the streets. Her safety isn’t my concern. I got shits to take more important than some random woman’s safety. And if you think otherwise you’re sexist.
I stopped caring about a generation ago, after one woman too many gave me a mouthful because I held a rather large brass and glass bank door open for her. Okay, women can do anything. Women, fish, bicycles and all that. Practical application: bitches are on their own. Now, even if a woman was being assaulted on the street, I would probably not assist... unless she was wearing a Trump hat. If I know for sure that the female is a fellow Deplorable, anyone who assaults her is dead meat.
Nope. It's 2021 not the 1950s. Women are strong , independent, equal and can do anything a man can do.
Chivalry is part of patriarchy and patriarchy is bad for women.
We should give women the chance to start courting men, open their own doors, buy their own chocolates and flowers, pay for dates , and defend themselves if someone attacks them.
Women also need to learn how to use tools in case they need to fix something in their home or get a flat tire.
And don't forget your jacket if your going out. Can't expect a man to give you his and be cold himself
Yeah, I don't see the point. Unless the woman is obviously pregnant or something. I get some of the stuff people decide to stick with, (ex. opening doors) because I do that kind of thing anyway, regardless of gender. Might just be me though, I tend to fall into habits that are considered 'manly'? (can't remember the actual term rn for whatever reason) But with the more serious things, guys shouldn't have to feel like they have to take a bullet for someone just because they are female..
@VanillaSalt You don't have to ask women out. Plenty of women will make the first move. I think your age group tends to take a different, more traditional route when it comes to that kind of thing. Which is probably why fewer men are asked out by women.
Same problem with the court thing, not everyone is willing to give up on traditional 'gender roles'. just because I personally want a change, doesn't mean everyone does. However, you will probably see more changes made to that kind of thing when the rest of Gen Z grows up.
About the pregnant thing, I mean when it comes to 'give your seat on the subway up to a woman' and that kind of thing. When someone is pregnant this should be common courtesy, no matter your gender.
Good points. I struggle with my natural desire to protect and provide because all women do not deserve this. If you want to be truly equal then fine but all the extra privileges that come with being a woman should disappear with it. If you want the privilege then be prepared to pay for that extra privilege in an acceptable way like being feminine, homemaker, children, etc. I’ll be honest my preference is selfish. I work 60-80 hours a week. I’m not coming home and doing the dishes. What do I need you for? I could just as soon use plastic or be single and have less dishes.
Also fear plays a role. Do you know how dangerous it is for a man to interact with a random woman? If a woman wanted she could run a man’s life just by falsely accusing him of rape. Then suffer no consequences depending on the situation. Nobody wants to put consequences on women for being unable to prove rape but then #metoo appears and does basically the opposite. And in the wake of all this very VERY few women stand up and protect men. Even if feminists are a minority their the vocal majority and that’s unacceptable. As far as I’m concerned ALL women are guilty of allowing it for not speaking up.
@VanillaSalt Yeah, again. A lot of this stuff is being changed/protested against (in smaller numbers) online and such, and things are slowly starting to change. The difference is, it is being done among the younger communities, and isn't being as blown up as other issues atm. One thing I should also mention, is, contrary to what seems to be popular belief on this site, feminists aren't evil. The kind of feminists you people seem to hate (understandably) are extremists, you just see more about them plastered all over because they are so dramatic they attract a lot of attention..
I hate extremists on both sides but I dislike all feminists. See here’s the thing. We all suffer together. With unique problems, rapes more prevalent in women where as murder is in men. My view on women is it’s their job to support men as they take on the world to not only protect them but their children. 10 years ago I never would have left a woman to change her own tire. After that story a man was arrested for rape and it was proven by video false I quit thinking like that. Few months ago 3 women were changing their own tire and I left them to it.
Did you see that video of a man raping a woman in a NYC subway in broad daylight and nobody stops it? In their situation I don't know of ide step in either. On one hand there’s my desire to protect. On the other is I could get hurt, die, be charged with some crime... for someone that don’t even appreciate me. I don't know if it’s spite of self-preservation stopping me but... I never though ide have such a question. It should be easy and obvious.
This creates a terrible society. People need direction. A+B=C. Gender roles are there as a template for a relationship for a reason. Men spend years moldings themselves into protectors and providers. Women grow supportive and feminine. These are roles you change depending on your mood. These are a lifetime of preparation and work. Without this template we’ve started getting superficial and selfish in what we look for in partners. Divorce, MGTOW, sexism, selfishness... these are all on the rise yet people think we’re on the right path. Feminism in itself is breaking society... no. The word equality and what people think of it’s breaking society. Men and women are not equal. Blacks and whites are not equal. Hell twin white brothers are not equal. Stop focusing on everybody being unique but equal and focus on being a good person doing the best you can for yourself and others... sexism, racism, feminism... all ism’s disappear on the spot if you do.
@VanillaSalt I don't really agree with most of that, but I also don't feel like starting an argument rn. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the interesting conversation ig ✌
It's a made up term invented by angry feminists to shame men into being weak. Any man who's raised properly should feel naturally protective towards the women under his care. If these feminists get the "true equality" they want by making it illegal for men to be protective, they'll quickly come to realise what a violent and chaotic world lies beyond the protections of men in their lives.
For me whether it's discouraged or not I'm still gonna be myself and I do try to display chivalry whenever I can. Whether I get called sexist or not is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned modern feminisme is hate-preaching cult and their opinion on anything is as null and void as their very existence.
Someone has be seriously go downhill to come up with that conclusion. If a guy feels like his kind women in serials providing emotional support to men attacks men/masculinity he'll be labled an idiot at the very least, and rightfully so. If being nice to someone or doing good for someone offends that someone... that someone likely has insecurity or self confidence issues.
The problem is women want it both ways. They still want men to protect them, their country and their society but want to maintain the fantasy that they don't need them to do it. What the charges of benevolent sexism amount to is wanting a benefit without having to acknowledge you are receiving it, express any appreciation for it or owe any reciprocating benefits in return. They want it both ways.
Civilians? In a house fire the civilian is usually the woman because the men are busy putting out the fire. In a war the civilian is the woman because men are fighting it.
For men, being polite and protecting a woman is the same thing. I'm not gonna protect a random man. He's a man and his fights are not my concern. A random woman on the other hand I have to put myself in front of her to shield her because according to chivalry I am duty bound as a man to do so or be labeled as a coward by society.
@DaisyM23 if you were being attacked would you want a man walking by to defend you or keep walking? If he just called the police, you'd be raped, beaten, or dead by the time they got there.
@jerdanro, I don't think that's a male responsibility, it's a human responsibility as far as I'm concerned, if you see another human in trouble, compassion dictates that you should help them. Otherwise, you're a dick.
As long as there's no ulterior motive or bad thought process it's fine. Chivalry is supposed to be done as a good thing you do because you want to do good. Not just being nice to women you're attracted to with the hopes of getting into their pants.
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Anonymous
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Here's the reality of benevolent sexism. Women complain about it in concept, but they love it when men do it and find men who do more attractive. Essentially, when it comes to gender roles, women want to have their cake and eat it too.
It should be encouraged. Women are too weak and dumb to do most things. If they were smart and strong they would have built the world, yet they need to cling to social dynamics like feminism and they still lose. If they were so smart they would just be a CEO instead of nagging everyone why there aren't many women CEOs like whiney helpless children. "Mommy Daddy make me CEO whaaaawhaaa" lmfao and then they say they are smart and strong and independent what a funny joke! So yes they need all the benevolent sexism they can get.
I agree but here’s the problem... look at some of the women in this post... you can’t treat all women the same and the law applies to these women and women like you. Why should I suffer for women when women, it don’t matter if it’s the majority or the vocal majority, wanna treat me like shit? Like I don’t see you screaming from the mountains for me.
This is the problem. ALL women enjoy the benefits of a having a vagina and the privilege that comes with it. Many want to act like hoes cheat, lie, steal, manipulate, just act as unladylike as possible but still enjoy the protections.
Women are paying alimony at a higher rate now and they’re complaining. Where the fuck were these complaints when they were the benefactors?
We HAD a system where women were a greater priority and protect by all men as a class. In return for said privilege they were expected to look nice, be feminine, act ladylike, and to not be anything that women are today. Feminism broke this system because a few bad things happened overwhelmingly to women. You didn’t defend the system so you don’t deserve to take part in the system.
Just be a woman and get back in the kitchen xDDD funny how much you'd hate it if the tables were turned. Apparently it's sexist to expect traditionalism from women, but it's not sexist to expect traditionalism from men?
Yes, yes it is sexism to tell him to "be a man", just like how it is sexist to tell a woman to get back in the kitchen. It carries a traditional expectation with it, which you are trying to enforce. If it's wrong to enforce gender roles on one gender then it's sexist for both genders.
I agree. Whoever is the strongest protects the weakest. I think that’s just natural human decency. But what women don’t like is being belittled for being women when they’re quite capable, and equally better than men in some areas. It should be about working together in a team and complimenting each other’s strengths and weaknesses. Not making out one sex is superior (which is what many men (not all) did very frequently not too long ago).
Yes. Too many guys out here simping, putting random women on pedestals, and giving them treatment that they haven't earned. Treat them like you would a guy until they prove they should be treated better.
I need constant protection from men that don't understand boundaries. I need protection from me that are not my partner who think it's appropriate to make comments on my body. I think it's inappropriate to be touched without permission.
@lilyanony1 You raise two, TOTALLY separate issues, here. Yes, if someone is in danger of dying, I would do anything I can, short of killing myself to help them, male or female. Of course, if there were kids, they would come first! As for your own issues with men, and 'boundaries', I think you need to talk with some trustworthy male friends, and find out what you are doing, NOT KNOWING, that makes those douchebags think that they can act in a way that offends you. Not saying it is your fault, but sometimes a douchebag guy needs a solid kick to the groin, to get the message. Can you do that?
A make colleague at work just started it was his first day, he was nervous and making mistakes. He apologisized. We ran late I told him it was OK as he was getting familiar with new systems. He divulged that he is divorced and his wife was unkind, he said working 7 days a week means he can't find anyone noone wants to date him, so I said "I'm sure there's someone out there for you, there is someone for everyone" I was being polite, also I thought it was OK since he was clearly feeling comfortable/uncomfortable. He asked me about the local area, where to get lunch etc so I guided him, he then suggested we go to eat once we come out of lockdown so I said that's very kind maybe we can invite the weekend working staff to celebrate. Over the few weeks He kept running late by wanting to talk in between so I would shut him down. At times he sit just looking at my breast so I would start taking to him or ask him whether I had something on my top to remind him, we were at work.
The following week I changed my bra to a sports one to flatten everything, he said "oh you changed?" "what exactly have I changed?" (stern tone) "oh I'm mistaken I forget where I am, I work 7days different places sometimes I forget" I needed to ask him something to which I was told to do so by staff, when I blurted out "I needed to ask you something" he said "are you going to ask me on a date?" no I made sure he could see and hear my disgust through the mask and I said "No! Don't be ridiculous" I'm careful of how I speak to people at work because people have been sabotaging me which isn't cool and obviously it's due to job survival but I straight told my manager. When I was working with someone else he tried to talk to me in passing so I told him "can't chat really busy" and rushed off. We worked together one more week despite asking not to during which he decided he wanted to offer me a hug and I shouted no. I didn't engage in conversation, to which I would ask whether he needed help with anything then would leave the room. Because I've done this, last weekend he went out his way to try and speak to me. I was bending over and he came up behind me and said "hello" obviously I jumped. Another time he asked me why I didn't say good morning to him. So I told him my colleague responded and I was busy rushing as you could see, I thought you understood. The next step would be to tell he is inappropriate, he said he was leaving in June so I thought this would be enough.
During this period of time people have been saying how unkind others are including myself having lost a parent. Noone cares. Or cared enough to understand what im dealing with I have to work to survive and my job is essential so I can't take time out. Anyways showing people especially men compassion just seems make them think I'm into them. I was just being a decent member of staff. Especially when my other manager was unhelpful and basically threw him in the deep end without showing him things to get on.
Why don't we just un-sexist it the other way? Why don't we just encourage women to be chivalrous to men as well? That might fix the problem in a constructive way rather than destructive.
@Vetis even assuming that were true (which it is not), why would women starting to be chivalrous to men, mean that men would have to start being anything different than we are now?
@Vetis wait, do you mean you think men are chivalrous to women because we pity them? So in order to recieve chivalry men would need to be pitied by women, and the only way to do that is to become wives because wives are the most unfortunate things to be and women are already on that level? Or did I hopefully just misunderstand you, but I can't make sense of what you're saying any other way.
@Vetis how? Physically weaker? That's because as you said they are designed to further the species. One of us has to be able to grow a baby and the other has to be able to protect them while they do it. And it turns out women got to be the ones who grow the babies. Men being physically stronger is so we can protect the future of humanity that we wouldn't even have without women.
@Vetis I don't have any little mutants yet cause I haven't got her pregnant yet. But yes, aside from the environment and other animals, I would be protecting them from other humans, including you. Fortunately most humans don't have any reason or desire to hurt other people's children at this point in the development of the species.
@Vetis sorry but you keep saying these things that you see the connection but I don't see any of the connections so could you please explain? how does Hitler have to do with this?
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The problem is that sexism like any other "ism" isn't always overt or fully intended.
Yes there are r/niceguys and r/nicegirls but most people do not go out there way to target the opposite sex in every scenario.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
It doesn't matter what you or anyone one else thinks "should be encouraged" or "should be discouraged. What you're calling "benevolent sexism" or what normal people would call "chivalry" is known to biology and nature -- a. k. a. REALITY -- as a "successful mating strategy." And so it shall continue.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Depends, do they expect equality?
I’ve said this often on question about things like who pays on a date. The reality is that all that equality rhetoric was about changing all the things they didn’t like and keeping all the things they did. It had little to do with equality or gender roles. It’s about boobs for women.
You can tell from the pole, most want to be treated differently, not equally.
The thing about benevolent sexism is that it is still sexism and a gateway for worse kinds. The above examples of chivalry still promote women as weak and that we need constant protection.
Benevolent sexism and chivalry are the same thing.
It doesn't promote women as weak. We already know you are weak. Do you realize how huge the physical strength difference there is between men and women?
@grega239 perhaps once and perhaps sometimes this will happen. I think the point is that sexism implies that it is always the case that women are defenseless. I have studied self-defense specifically for women because yes most women cannot overpower a man but it doesn't mean a that is the only way to fight back.
Chivalry is sexism by definition. Sexism is discrimination based on sex. Chivalry is a code of conduct that states that men are obligated to help a woman.
Men don't offer their coats or jackets to men do we? I'm not gonna help a man pick up 20 kgs because it's not hard to do for a man.
Unless you train to defend yourself or have a weapon for that purpose, you are defenless. I know it sucks to hear , but you're gonna have to accept this fact.
And hey, I'm not too find of going out of my way to spare women such inconveniences as opening doors, and lift things that are heavy for women and all that. But I, like a lot of other men, have been borderline brainwashed as kids that it's the right thing to do because we are men and to not do those things makes us lesser men.
Maybe instead of complaining how it's sexist and makes women look weak (which it doesn't) you should be greatful that you're afforded these privileged simply for being female
Then what about men? Some strange man has to die because your valued by society more? To get this kind of privilege comes some kind of responsibility. Men should get something out of the deal for being less important...
I should restate that. Your prioritizing kids over adults and I agree. But if that’s the save he have better luck grabbing the kid and running then dragging you along.
When your husbands not there... you just gonna die or do you want a man to jump in and fulfill his role? I agree with your side I’m playing devils advocate. Why should you and your kids lives be more important just because he has a penis?
They are important because we would give our lives for them. I agree if he could take one and I take the other that’s the beat chance. We would send our kids off without us if we had to but they need an adult. They won’t survive on their own. They are too young.
I think he forgets that women died in childbirth time and time over to have his children. Most men have that natural instinct. Just like women are prone to nurture. I guess some just don’t.
@lives2learn your children are a good point though. Their the future. Do you want your son growing up being taken advantage of because he’s a man and society has expectations of him while not of women to balance it all out? What about your daughter? Do you want her to die alone because more and more men just don’t want to commit because of the dangers of getting involved with the opposite gender outweighing the benefits several fold?
I prefer a society where women care and men protect not just where couples look out for each other because the fact is... today’s woke women provide nothing to a good quality man to incentivize him to say fight or die for them.
Biologically, men are more expendable than women. One healthy male can impregnate multiple women. Social ideas and attitudes are as ruled by social evolution as physical traits are ruled by biological evolution. The traits that lead to the most reproduction tend to persist.
Also biologically women are weaker and need a man to protect them from the works. Take away welfare and police and see which sex survives. They dropped a group of women on one island and a group of men on a different island for the same time with the same time. The men succeeded abs the women had all kinds of failure. Look up the video and understand is society that men but that allows women to act like their better.
@love2learn are men incapable of caring for children?
I love how you hold traditional expectations of men but not yourself. When it benefits you, tradition must stay, but otherwise you abandon it without a moments hesitation. If you're gunna make this traditional argument then at least be a traditional woman. Like you make the bullshit argument of pretending like women are the only ones who can care for kids, but also you don't think women should be working full time instead of raising and caring for kids.
@devilman666 you are taking what I said completely out of context. What I’m saying is if I were to send my children off away from me I would need to know they would be cared for.
At this point, feminists can go fuck themselves. I'm tired of bitches wanting to make anything men do some sort of "aggression". Fucking idiots are just so sexist and hateful they'd forbid men to breathe if they had the opportunity.
If women are really independent, then they should handle their shit without the help of a man
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Let's come back on this subject when it will be time to die at War. Suddently , the mâle priviledge to do these tasks won't be criticized.👌👌👌👌
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
Of course it should be discouraged. Women will pay you back with false accusations, #metoo bullshit, and child support.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
women no longer deserve protection or preferential treatment. Men need to look out for their own interests first and let women take care of themselves.
I don’t think anything like this should exist but I think it’s better than the original. You know, if everyone had hi or, there would be peace. Learn more about that in my book that Willa be shared in some years. But I still haven’t even designed the guy who will be explaining it all
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