Is Morgan Bullock guilty of cultural appropriation?

[RolandCuthbert]

So this question came up in my meetup group. I am not certain why. The guy who posted it didn't really explain himself. I think he was expecting a different answer from me.

Morgan Bullock is an African-American woman who is passionate about Irish folk dancing. So she posts tik-tok videos of her going at it. She seems to be pretty good. But I am no critic. I know squat about Irish folk dancing.

So I responded the way I am going to respond.

"How the hell would I know? I ain't Irish."

I guess he was trying to prove I was hypocritical because I view certain things as cultural appropriation. But no. Only the Irish can make such a claim. They own their culture. How can a person who isn't Irish decide what is or is not offensive to Irish people? If she wants to be understanding of the viewpoint of Irish folks, she should seek out opinions of people who identify with being Irish. It is just being respectful.

But I am tired of folks pretending that culture does not exist. And that there is some federal law about this. It is just about being respectful to a culture you claim to love. She loves the culture, she should listen to the people who claim to be its members.

She reached out to the Irish community. Went to Ireland. Appeared on Irish radio, television, magazines, etc.

Now, after all of this, she could still be accused of cultural appropriation. But that is a matter for the folks who identify as being Irish. She had a nice exchange with the gentleman below. Unlike the nonsensical at GaG. This is how people talk in the real world.

[crmoore]

It depends on what definition of "cultural appropriation" you use. If you use a fair one, yes, she is. But I think cultural appropriation is very silly. Humans are highly social creatures. Not only is the sharing and meshing of cultures a beautiful, inclusive, and camaraderie-inspiring thing, but it's inevitable.


Not to mention, I feel cultural appropriation, and the negative connotation is has, is only a perspective we have while we aren't definitively aware of alien species. I think once we know there is other life out there, we will see ourselves less like "this human from this region and this culture" and more like "this human." Granted, we will still see ourselves as "this human from this region/culture," it will just have less significance. Once our perspective on living beings broadens, we will likely feel closer and see human customs more like human customs, rather than European customs or Japanese customs. Especially when compared to the likely much different alien customs. I think humans, upon being definitively aware of aliens and their cultures/customs, will feel much closer and less tribal or segregatory.

re-state://background_color_rgba (0, 0, 0, 0), font_color_rgb (77, 77, 77), justifyLeft

[RolandCuthbert]

But how would one define cultural appropriation for every single culture? Of course, human cultures blend and mix. Tell that to the racists who post in GaG daily. They admit to no such blending of cultures. Tell that to Russians and Ukrainians who think they are culturally distinct. Or to the Scottish and British. Or Igbo and Yoruba. Mexican/Puerto Rican, etc.

I could go on endlessly. You can build a discipline to objectively classify human traditions, language, rituals, etc. People would still claim group identities and claim differences based upon the groups they claim to see in society.

Perhaps you are right, if aliens arrived we would feel differently. But most people are not self-aware like you or I. They actually believe their subjective group identity is something real and permanent.

[jshm2]

Yes, in some circles. As having Americans do what you do, is creepy and rather unsettling. Like having Muricans turn up at Scotland and claim they are "Home" or "of royal descent".

But Morgan is not doing her thing to offend, and is doing it in her own style anyway. Hence not butting heads with the traditionalists, she just needs to rebrand her style and get a following.

Culture is mostly about traditions.

[RolandCuthbert]

I get you sir. I think you and I have spoken about this before. In Europe, there is no questioning culture and cultural identity. But the European descendants in American seem to have forgotten that Europe is made up of different cultural groups with distinct traditions and histories.

And they pretend this has to do with political ideology. When political affiliation has nothing to do with it. Do you think most Europeans would mind if "White" Americans made an honest attempt to reconnect to their European roots?

[NathanDavis]

well, this is quite complicated...

I'm Mexican... and about 90% of Mexican culture is not actually my culture, and that's because I am from the North-East of Mexico... and the vast majority of our ACTUAL culture has developed in the Centre and South of the country.

So, although I am Mexican I should not just feel like I have right to decide for others what's right or what's wrong... or if I should actually be offended about how others appreciate or do not appreciate "our culture"

Like I said, there's no actual evident wrong or right in here... culture is one of the most abstract concepts to ever exist... and here were are trying to get all personal about it

is this offensive TO ME?

is this offensive TO ALL OF US?

these are two very different questions, that we tend to approach at the same time

[RolandCuthbert]

I think you are reading into my post and not reading it. I never claimed this was personal. I mean. . I ain't Irish. How could this be personal for me? But I know where some Irish people are. Why would I just start dancing like an idiot and claim I was doing an Irish dance? All I would have to do is go ask them about Irish folk dancing. If they didn't know "personally" they probably would have a good idea where I could find people who did.

The problem with culture in America is that so many of us look as culture as a box that traps us. . . but then use race to understand each other. When that is an even bigger box that makes even less sense. One would think folks would understand this is backwards. If you want to understand a person or use some grouping mechanism for them, why not use the one they use for themselves?

You use the term Mexican to describe yourself in one sentence only to then say you are not very Mexican. I leave it to you to figure out your group identity. That isn't my problem. Maybe you are offended when folks mock Mexican Culture. Maybe you aren't. Maybe it bothers you when the culture is misunderstood or stereotyped. . . or maybe it doesn't

But I know this, having worked in the Mexican community, having have so many Mexican clients in the past, I know there is a group of Mexicans out there extremely proud of that specific culture and history, even as you may or may not be.

[NathanDavis]

That was a lot... for you to assume, and assume wrongly

[NathanDavis]

1.- My opinion has nothing to do with you and your personal or not personal take, and I did not make it about you, my opinion was on my perspective on the premise of your question

" Is Morgan Bullock guilty? "

I do not give simple yes or no answers to very complex subjects

2.- The problem with culture in America? which culture exactly? or what do you actually refer to as "culture"? as far as I know, the USA is a multi-cultural nation. So perhaps, the box and the trap is the fact that some people think America has ONE culture, that is not the case.

3.- I do not use the term Mexican to describe myself, I am not describing myself... I merely pointed out my nationality (one of them, in fact... because first than Mexican, I am American, from Texas) And then I went on about Mexican "culture" so there's nothing really to figure out on my side, I know which, my nationality is , as well as my race, my ethnicity and also my culture, my background and more... So, don't worry about that as a problem to be solved.

And no, what people do try offend others is not of my concern, I am way too smarter and knoy way too much better about what's worth for me to feel attacked by... people mocking with stereotypes is not something that gets me offended, and that is just the way it is for me, personally.

4.- Yes, I am sure there are many groups of Mexicans that are extremely proud about THEIR VERY specific culture and history as well as others are very proud of "all of it as a whole" however, it is also true for Mexico... to be a multi-cultural country, there's at least a dozen different cultures and groups of people, with many marked and substantial differences,

And on that last particular aspect is where I went on and on, in my opinion... before we try to decide if someone is guilty or not, perhaps we should first be clear, on what actually constitutes "culture"

[RolandCuthbert]

1. You are trying to answer the question, that was not asked of you specifically. This is an illustration. I ask the question of one group and one group only. The folks who identify with being Irish. Did you see that?

2. Hmmm. . . I said that America has one culture? Where? When? You are accusing me of two contradictory things, defining multiple cultures in America and saying America is one culture. Maybe just accuse me of one thing or the other, then I can respond.

3. Okay, then why tell me that? Why not simply tell me what group identity or identities you choose? Why is this so hard?

4. You have to do you. You do know other people can and will make different choices right? What's right for you, isn't right for everyone.

Again, I am not here to litigate her guilt. I am not Irish. You should re-read my original post. It might shed some light on this misunderstanding.

[NathanDavis]

1.- You asked a question to a very specific situation yes, but such situation can happen with any other culture and groups being involved, so the answer to this, in principle, still applies... Now if you meant to request only answers from Irish people, and for only Irish people to decide is this wrong or right, you were not specific about that. And then, you made it about American and the concept of culture. So again, the principle still applies, as an answer.

2.-I am not claiming that you said this or that... and I am not accusing you of either... I clearly used question marks, so clearly I am questioning for clarification of what did you actually mean.
I pointed how you obviously say "culture in America" in your reply to me... so this is what I now, need to be clear... because most people use the concept of culture, wrongly... I will give you an example... "Mexican sombreros" are associated with Mexican culture yes... but we do not actually care for Mexican sombreros... what we mostly see used as a Mexican sombrero is actually a joke. So, for most Mexicans is not offensive, as we're on the joke as well. It is a stereotype, not a cultural asset. Some things just hold a lot more meaning than others, and this is from a true cultural aspect. That's all I meant, I wanted to be sure you're aware of these differentiations.

3.- Why do you need me to put a label on myself? This does not have to be about me personally... again, the answer I gave you, in principle applies to what you asked. I am not making this about you or about me... it is about the premise in your question, and the principle in my answer.

[NathanDavis]

4.- Yes, people make different choices and from very different approaches and perspectives... and this is exactly my answer for you.
Morgan Bullock is not right or wrong here, she is not guilty or innocent... because from all the Irish people, some will say "yes I care, she is guilty" while other Irish people will say "I just don't care, she's cool" and so... you end up exactly where you started, there will be no definitive answer, so asking in the first place if she is guilty or not, is indeed futile.

A more pertinent question would "how many of you think she's guilty, how many of you think she's cool... it should have been a poll, then you would actually have a balance as to how a fraction of people, perceive this.

So, you say you are not here to litigate on her guilty status, because you are not Irish, however you're asking Irish to do it, just because they're Irish?

Just like Mexicans will not ALL agree on these matters, Irish will not do it either.

That is what you should try to understand from a different perspective, other than your own.

[RolandCuthbert]

1. Of course, this could be applied to any culture. I mean, isn't my point? You kind of go into semantics now. I won't get bogged down here. The point is, individual cultures decide what is or is not indicative of the culture. I don't know how people at GaG think it works any other way.

2. I can't get into this whole discussion of what is or is not Mexican. I am not Mexican. I can only ask Mexicans about what is or it not indicative of their culture/history. You have turned this into a discussion about semantics. I just want my point about culture understood. I would rather not debate the phrasing of the question.

3. Because you will put a label on yourself no matter what. You will call yourself human or American or whatever. And if you do, that gives me an idea about how you identify. The funny thing is, that if I racially identify you. . . you will not see that as a problem, even as people hold to vicious racial stereotypes. So you would rather be labeled. . . than choose your own labeling. That's American society for you. In almost every other part of this earth, people select one or more group identities.

[RolandCuthbert]

4. You are looking to answer this in an objective manner. There is no objectivity here. I am not even trying to answer the question. I am saying that Irish people decide what is or is not Irish. If there were an outcry by Irish folks about Morgan Bullock, I would think she has enough common sense to listen. She did go to Ireland. She did reach out to the Irish press. She did interviews with the Irish media. I ain't Irish, but the Irish sources I accessed seemed to think this was enough.

If you want to ask this question, ask it. Why are you bothering me about answers you need for yourself?

My point is, cultural appropriation is real. But the only people who can decide what is or is not, are the people who are in the culture in question.

And if we don't listen to these cultural groups, we end up with this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7tyfQu4QJo

Instead of this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2npPRUi_kk

[NathanDavis]

1.- Of course, it applies to all other cultures, therefore my point is valid and it stands.

2.- I agree here, you should not made it about me needed to label, reduce or limit myself to "one group in particular" but you keep bringing up and questioning whether I am Mexican or not, or else. We can just quit this point entirely.

3.- I don't need to be labeled, you seem to be the one in need to be able to identify me as something, what do you have that need, I am not clear, but I suspect it would be to argue about that, instead of your premise and my perspective on it. By the same logic, I could also point out that is is ironic and funny indeed, that you do not want to judge this girl, but you ask others to judge her.. to what end? I don't know that either. So, by your logic you're also part of the dynamic and not the exception. Judgment on others yes, that's quintessential America.

4.-I never argued about cultural appropriation being real or unreal, I did not question this girl actions, not Irish people judgment.

My only point is that, you're asking for someone to be judged by a group of people, and therefore decide she is guilty or not... and that's pointless in here... because of two reasons.

There will never be a consensus that includes all of the Irish people, and also there's going to be a discrepancy on the perspective about this, some will decide it is wrong, some will decide it is not a big deal... and then you end up at the some point you started, it will be unclear, and then you will decide which side to believe on this, probably the majority, and yes, the majority is a good indicator, but is in no way a decider.

So, at the end of the day you're just judging someone, but based on others judgment rather than your own.

[RolandCuthbert]

1. Not a response to what I posted.

2. It not about you needing to. You will. That's humanity. It doesn't matter what label you choose, it tells people about how you group identify. There is no one who says, they are "nothing". People say things like, "I am Mexican". "I am American". "I am White." "I am Klingon".

I am not sure why you are even entering this into the debate. It is like disagreeing that the sky is blue.

But if I throw you into a make-believe racial goup, then all of a sudden you are satisfied. That's what's weird. If I ask, I am wrong. But I group you based upon what I see, I'm right.

I don't do that. Group yourself. Then inform me.

3. Well, do you. Walk around labeless. I am not sure why you want me to believe that when people call you a human or an American or Mexican or whatever, you get highly upset. Whatever dude. It is disingenuous.

4. I am not asking for Irish people to do anything other than be Irish. I mean this is totally disingenuous. I don't know what is Mexican. I don't define what is Mexican. I ask Mexican people what is or is not Mexican. You can pretend those serious conversations have never taken place. You will be wrong. I will invite you to my Meetup so you can meet the Mexican people I have asked when it comes Mexican cinema, music, traditions, and culture.

So please stop being disingenuous.

[NathanDavis]

1.- Just because a response does not suit you, does not fit your agenda, or you don't like it, nor accept it doesn't mean is not valid... this is very much a matter of perception, whether you agree to that or not.

2.- I will repeat myself again... you're the one with a need to label me as something. So just pick any label you want to post on my forehead and that's it, suit yourself, I do not mind which one you choose.

3.- Nothing you've said has made upset, I just don't have a reason to be upset here. And is something is truly disingenuous in here is what you're trying to do, which is you refusing to judge someone but to bring her to the spotlight to be judged by others.

4.- "What do I know, I am not Irish" "I don't know what's Mexican" if you're having conversations with Mexicans and still pretend to be an ignorant about Mexican people... then that's quite disingenuous or you're just really not capable of understanding which I doubt, or perhaps you just don't care... but pretending to be an ignorant just does not suit you.

However, out of curiosity... these people in your meetups, are they Mexicans from Mexico? or are they Mexicans-Americans from the USA?

5.- By the way... as I just read the rest of the comments, I am sure you noticed that nobody agrees with your premise on this post, and most have raised similar points to mine... and one even said something that's practically what I said.

So instead of pleading me to "not be disingenuous" how about you just stop being in denial... either you're in the wrong, or your premise is lacking in foundation, and it just does not stand.

All you're doing here is trying to twist everything that is said to you... and just so you don't have to accept that nobody agrees with you, simply because your premise is absolutely and just wrong, it is pointless and that's it.

[NathanDavis]

by the way, the sky is not blue at night... the sky is not blue when is raining, the sky is not blue during the dawn and sunsets... the sky is not quite blue for all other animals... the sky is certainly not blue at the most contaminated cities/regions in this world...

the sky being blue is merely perspective... just like your claim or attempt on Morgan being judged guilty... or not... it's simply and merely a perception from many, and any

[RolandCuthbert]

1. You can color it anyway you wish. It isn’t a response to what I posted. You could have just told me about the weather.

2. I am not the one with the need to label. You labeled yourself. You picked several names, Mexican, Human, American. What you label yourself is your affair, not mine. I merely asked. The thing is, you believe in racial definitions, so if someone racially identifies you, that isn’t bothersome. It is only bothersome if they ask you. . . no matter how politely. You can’t just say. . .”I don’t have a label. I don’t even identify as human”. Then I could know you are just disingenuous.

3. Again with being disingenuous. Where do I accuse you of being upset? I did not bring anyone anywhere. Morgan Bullock is safe in her home I assume. The question was put to me. And I answered it. Then I posted what transpired here. Again, read the post. I put effort into it.

4. Just because I have had talks with Mexican people does not mean I know their culture. I had no idea that Mexican and Puerto Rican Culture were totally different until I was in my 20s. But I learned that by talking to people who said their group identity was Mexican and people who said their group identity was Puerto Rican. Meaning that before people in those two groups explained, I was ignorant. They taught me. But using your method. . . I just know intrinsically without ever asking a person how they group identify and what that group identity means to them. That’s the backwardness of insane crazed racial identities. They are assigned a group identity based upon some obsession with skin color and phenotype. . . then cultural beliefs and behaviors are associated. . and there you go. I am suggesting that perhaps human beings are little more complex than you are. As for the meetups. . . I would say we have zero folks who identify strictly as being Mexican. We have many more who identify as being Mexican-American along with some other group identities.

[RolandCuthbert]

5. I am not pleading to you. I am telling you, you are disingenuous. You are defending a position that you do not have or believe in. You are just arguing your politics and your ego at this point. Neither is needed for this discussion. You pretend that based upon conversations with Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, I would know everything there is to to know about both cultures. The thing that is incredible is that I meet with people and discuss culture and group identity openly. Yet I am supposed to care what a bunch of scared trolls on the net think of me. I have three groups that number over 800 people in total. Maybe if I folks disagreed with my premise I would have heard about it before now. Because I would think the folks who have the testicular fortitude to confront me in real life would at least have the decency to tell me I was wrong and resign from my discussion groups in protest.
I didn't twist anything. I have several folks who get it. . . and a few here who are playing around on the internet.

You are here whining to me about what I believe when it comes to culture. You have to convince me I am wrong about my decision to stay out of telling Morgan Bullock that she is right. .. or she is wrong. I told you I cannot decide that. I am not Irish. But I do believe if Morgan Bullock wants to get this right, she needed to reach out to people who identify as being Irish.

That's when you chimed in. . . angry at me. . . in a situation that had nothing to do with you. You had to tell me about how you identify as though that matters. Cultural appropriation is a real thing. But you can't legislate it. I am just saying as a decent human being, you should reach out. . . when "appropriate".

www.blackenterprise.com/.../

[RolandCuthbert]

I don't think you even know what you said with that last post.

Again, I can't judge Morgan Bullock. . . because I am not Irish.

If you can, do so and go drink a coca cola.

[NathanDavis]

so it's quite simple here

"either you agree with me or you're wrong"

you only see what you want to see and the way it is convenient to you, that's quite clear

and, that's also pointless

which was my point, pointless from the get go

[RolandCuthbert]

I mean you can go away mad. . . or just go away.

But obviously we can't have a talk because of all the cultural baggage you got swinging around over there. Figure that stuff our first before commenting on culture. Because you look unhinged.

I can't be your psychologist. I can only tell you, I ain't Irish. I will probably never be Irish, therefore I won't, can't or will be forced into deciding what is Irish, what dance was done properly/improperly or what Irish traditions need to be respect. That is like. . . common sense.

But I can always pick up the phone and call some Irish folks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwioxJLW02s

[NathanDavis]

at this point is just hilarious...

this thing you do, create the scenario in which I am "just a guy who is mad" at you... lol

with " a heavy burden within you" but hey... if that's what it takes to protect yourself from this situation, go ahead by all means... you're the one who needs to validate itself... not me

like you said it yourself... you can pain any "unhinged fantasy" from up there in your high horse... that does not bother me... you're the one in the need to create this unnecessary nonsense

and last... since you say "I can leave" I do not have to leave, but if you want to block me or delete or plainly just ask me to leave your yard, then go ahead... feel free to try that

[RolandCuthbert]

Yes, you just another ranting troll angry over nothing. I mean nothing in my post was mean to offend you right? Like we have never written each other before. But you made it about you.

I have no Irish background and no understanding of what it means to be Irish especially to a person who identifies as being Irish.

And I am going to keep posting videos about Irish folks. . . since you are disputing the obvious fact that there are folks who believe they are Irish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oC3dUqEXaY

[NathanDavis]

" Yes, you just another ranting troll angry over nothing "

that's just cute... and disappointing at the same time, didn't want to believe you had such a weak ego within you but oh well.. the root is never the most apparent at first sight

You still have time to grow up emotionally though... never late for that

[RolandCuthbert]

Weak ego?

Dude, now I am going to be in bed thinking about this all night.

Please don't go! Stay with me insane ranting troll. I need your guidance. . . your nonsense. . . you hypocritical contradictory psychobabble to keep me company!

Please!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbrwUaiUyj4

[NathanDavis]

see? more acting and pretending...

just remember you could only fool yourself... and not others, surely not me

whatever keeps you safe, is fine with me...

[RolandCuthbert]

Man, I remember one time when I was watching Joe Biden speak. And you know what? This dude had the nerve to begin his speech with "my fellow Americans". I couldn't believe it!!! The dude labeled me an American. I was so upset, I cried all night. And then there was this one time when I was in a store and this guy identified me as a "Black" man!!! The outrage i felt in my over this. I wanted to scream and cry.

Finally, I met Worf the Klingon, on the set of Deep Space Nine. . . and he called me a Human. And that was it. I was done with life because everyone labeled me something or another. I couldn't believe it. Because I had never been labeled before in life.

I get where you are coming for insane ranting troll.

People should listen to you guys more often. Because you make spectacular nonsense.

[NathanDavis]

that's quite elaborated...

shows the lengths you have to go just to avoid being in the wrong...

see, this is exactly what I mean by the weakness of your ego, such a fragile flower...

[RolandCuthbert]

What really tore it was when my mother labeled me her son. . . I was done with the human race at that point. Then I got angry with myself, because I labeled everyone else a human! What's wrong with me labeling folks human. . . oh no. . . I labeled everyone folks. . . oh no. . . I labeled humans. . . everyone. . .

[NathanDavis]

I'm sure she was quite busy recovering... most likely, a nurse would do the paperwork, the labeling, and all other stuff

[RolandCuthbert]

I will be with you in a minute. I just have to figure out how to refer to ______ without labeling _____..

You master this process long ago when you labeled yourself four different things. You showed me that labeling yourself is really someone else labeling you because they asked you.

Mind blown!

[NathanDavis]

If you have mastered denial and avoiding any check on your fragile ego... you can master so many other things as well

but why would you want to... you're already so invested and prolific at this, if this works for you why change it, so... I do not question that, I just pointed it out

[EmbraceThePain]

Well, I don’t agree with you that only the Irish can judge.

That’s kind of a weird statement to make in my opinion.

What if one Irish person says it IS cultural appropriation and another Irish person says it is NOT cultural appropriation?

They can’t both be right.

I think we all can judge, but only if we know the cultures involved. There are Irish people who don’t know their culture, tradition, etc. So, I don’t think they’re in a good place to judge anyone on Irish cultural appropriation.

Likewise, there are historians who are experts on the history of Ireland and the Irish people and these historians are NOT Irish.

We have to answer to ourselves,

What is cultural appropriation exactly? People, including myself, can be very confused on the question itself.

[RolandCuthbert]

Actually, it is much weirder to claim that the very people who created Irish folk dance. . . should not be the ones to decide whether or not it is offensive.

I mean. . . I don't know what to say to that. If you don't study Irish people who have done the dance, how do you even know you are doing it correctly? You think she figured out how to do the dance this way by studying Chinese martial arts?

I mean. . . just try to be logical.

Irish people disagree with each other all the time.

We are both human beings, you can I will never see eye to eye. Yet we are both human beings and apart of the One World Culture. You have concepts that you cling to, that have nothing to do with the study of human behavior.

Maybe you need to read a good book on cultural anthropology? Just sayin',

I am certain there are Irish folks who know more about Irish history than other Irish people. Again, that isn't saying anything. I wouldn't ask you about which Filipino movies you find enjoyable. I wouldn't ask you about Filipino cuisine. Because nothing about the Filipino experience seems valuable to you.

My Filipino friends, former employees, etc? I ask them quite often about their culture. Life in the Phillippines, cultural traditions, etc. Because they treasure their upbringing, their cultural viewpoints, history, etc.

Because I am curious about different cultures. But I never ask you.

Again you are obsessed with a universal definition. Every defined culture decides what is or it not cultural appropriation. The historian comment make nonsense by the way. You get that, right?

[EmbraceThePain]

Well, I don’t know where I said that “nothing in the Filipino culture is valuable.”

I just disagree with your opinion that only a specific subset of people have a say in what is cultural appropriation.

I’m Filipino, but if someone wants to adopt my culture or the culture of my ancestors because they think of the culture as positive for them and they like the history of it, then that is fine.

We’re all human and I think it can be selfish or unfair for us to deem some things permanently a thing of one culture because they happened to invent or come up with something first.

I think everyone should be open to exploring and adopting positive cultures or ways of life without repercussion or criticisms

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, leaving the semantics argument for a minute. It is common sense to say not everyone who claims the Irish identity have the same level of concern when it comes to Irish traditions, history and culture. I disagree that just because they debate what is or is not Irish, that means the Irish tradition of folk dancing ceases to exist. That's not a rational argument. We call Scottish bagpipes Scottish, because the Scottish folks made them. We call French fries French because they come from France.

Again, you can disagree. The basis for the disagreement is rooted in beliefs that don't conform to common sense. Why would you think non-Irish people know more about being Irish? That is a nonsensical statement. How can I know what is Irish and what is not by asking people who know nothing or care nothing about the culture?

And for other Filipinos it might not be fine. That does not destroy what it means to be Filipino. Because there are Filipinos who have an intense love and care for that culture, that history, and those traditions. Why do you pretend to care about something you already said you didn't care about? I mean, doesn't it bother you that this is hypocritical? Maybe it is okay to not care about it? Just sayin'.

The last paragraph is just an odd statement. So if the Igbo adopted Irish dancing and claimed they invented it, everyone should just believe them?

I mean again. I am just talking about logic. Irish folks chimed in and claim Morgan Bullock was okay. Getting an okay from you or me, should mean nothing to anyone. Because we are not Irish.

[Thegreendagger]

It depends if you were a person saying cultural proportion the yes she should stop.


If you were offended by people saying cultural appropration and now for it.
Then your a hypocrite and she should continue

[RolandCuthbert]

But how could you do that, without knowing a thing about Irish Culture? If you read my post, someone in my meetup group posted the video and asked me if this was cultural appropriation. My answer is above.

[Snakeyes7]

Who cares? Nobody died or got hurt from this supposedly horrible action of a black girl dancing so I'd say let her do it.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, we have talked about cultural appropriation before. And I wanted an honest conversation about how it works. We have really weird conversations about cultural identity in this forum.

[Snakeyes7]

If someone were to get offended at the fact that a black woman is doing an Irish dance, that says more about them more than it does about her provided she doesn't make any obscene gestures or mock it in anyway.

[RolandCuthbert]

How so? It isn't about her being "Black". It is about her not identifying as being Irish.

[Snakeyes7]

Ok and why is her not being Irish a problem?

[RolandCuthbert]

Let me explain this again, because people are getting confused when they use terms like Irish, British, "Black" and "White" every single day.

Now, of course you are just being disingenuous, but I will play along for a second.

How do you know she is performing an Irish folk dance?

Who determines that?

[Snakeyes7]

The video provides says it is and its not the main criticism this girl got so I don't think that's the issue. She's being criticized for being black and doing an Irish dance which isn't valid.

[joeldalton]

It shows how completely stupid the whole concept of cultural appropriation is.

[RolandCuthbert]

How so? Do you doubt that Irish people created Irish folk dancing?

[joeldalton]

No, but no Irish person gives a flying fuck if a black girl wants to do Irish dance. Just let people enjoy things.

[RolandCuthbert]

Y'all are kind of into her race. I keep forgetting where I am. This is not about her skin color. This is about her not identifying as being Irish.

The question would be the same if she were "White" American, Latino, Chinese, or Nigerian.

Who invented Irish folk dancing?

[joeldalton]

I don't know, and I don't really care who invented it. It's cool to watch and she's good at it.

[RolandCuthbert]

Right, you don't know who invented Irish folk dancing.

Haha!!!

[joeldalton]

how is that haha? It doesn't matter to anyone who invented it.

[RolandCuthbert]

I asked you a simple question and you pretend like you don't know the answer. Outside of this forum, you know what culture you know culture is. Here you pretend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeyyB20z674

[joeldalton]

So what? Get to your point. You asked if I doubted Iris started Irish folk dancing, and I said “no”

[RolandCuthbert]

Dude, you post is on the page. I asked you who invented Irish folk dancing and you said it doesn't matter who invented.

Tell that to the Irish.

Tell them it doesn't matter that they invented Irish folk dancing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbhQeJGvAHk

[joeldalton]

Good for them. I'm still waiting to see how this applies to the nonsense of "cultural appropriation"

[Juxtapose]

Cultural appropriation is bullshit, it's a childish game of "I did it first".

[RolandCuthbert]

So you mean Mexicans invented Irish folks dancing first?

[Juxtapose]

Don't know, don't care. Let people do what they want.

"Actually dreadlocks were first invented by blah blah blah.."

Yeah, nobody worth a damn cares. Let people dance or style their hair however they want.

[RolandCuthbert]

Why do all the people who don't care, keep stopping by and getting into arguments?

Do you think I created the thread to make you care?

This might not be about you.

[Juxtapose]

It's pretty obvious that I care about getting rid of the concept of cultural appropriation but I do not care about "who did it first?"

If I start dancing and somebody tells me another culture came up with the dance first, I am not going to hesitate for even a second to keep dancing.

I will think: "and?"

[EnglishEuropean]

Cultural appropriation isn't a crime, it's just some bullshit made up by racists. You go, girl!

[RolandCuthbert]

I am quite sure most folks agree that it isn't a crime. That doesn't change the fact that if I wanted to find Irish folk dancing experts, I wouldn't be traveling to India.

[Anonymous]

If you believe in cultural appropriation, and I think it dreadful idea, then yes you could make an argument.

[White_Boy_506]

Bullshit. Americans drive Japanese made cars. Is that cultural appropriation?

[RolandCuthbert]

That comparison doesn't even make sense.

The Japanese sell cars to Americans to make money.

We are talking about something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSoR8PLorTw&t=245s

[White_Boy_506]

Oh well. I couldnt care less

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, that makes perfect sense. To stop by a thread and post about a subject you care nothing about.

Now I understand what the block feature is for.

Must be a slow night over there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs

[White_Boy_506]

Wait what bro?

[RolandCuthbert]

Listen to the song.

It is a good one.