Should it be illegal for a Baker to refuse to make a wedding cake for a Homosexual or Transgender couple?

[Physics-Man]

Yes

No

[224466881010]

No. Almost nobody would be alright with refusing to serve a client because they are black. I can't accept different treatment for gays.
There's too much scientific evidence proving the existence of black people for you to disagree that they are authentically black and it isn't just some psychological issue.
Likewise there is too much scientific evidence in support of the existence of homosexuality for one to disagree that it's real.
Therefore, you can't argue that discriminating against homosexuals is based on the content of their character or some imagined bullshit, like exotic gender pronouns or identifying as an inanimate object instead of a biological male or female. It is instead discriminating against someone on the basis of something that is fundamental to their humanity, like race. It's just a hate crime.

Which brings up interesting questions. Like:
- What is the nature of "humanity" and why can't you discriminate based on an aspect of it?
- Isn't aggression a fundamental aspect of humanity? You can kick someone out for aggression. Why can you discriminate against some things and not others?
- What is a "hate crime" and why is it bad?
- If radical left-wing activists have all these fancy genders and identities, how do they reproduce? What do their mating rituals look like? Can someone who identifies as a lampshade be sexually compatible with someone who identifies as a tree frog?

Good questions. Find out on the next exciting episode.

[DJB72]

My business has a sign at the door that says "Right of Admission Reserved". That means I can ask anyone to leave for any reason and if they don't I can charge with criminal trespassing.

Same goes for any and every private business.

If a Baker is a devout Christian and advertises their business as a "Christian business" then they absolutely have the right to refuse service to anyone who blatantly lives a life opposed to those principles.

There have been a number of cases touching on this in recent years. What I have yet to understand is why a lgbtqfku couple would WANT the services of a business so vehemently opposed to their lifestyle unless they are wanting to pick a fight. No cake in the world is so good that it's worth going to court because your snowflake melted.

Every case I've seen so far has been the same: the couple getting hitched pick a business known to be devout in their religious beliefs then claim discrimination when the baker refuses to cater for their event. If the business is being run and advertises as a Christian business then the couple can't claim that they have been unfairly treated if the baker declines to bake their cake. The baker's religious integrity and freedom is on the line. Unless there are no other bakers in a 100 mile radius who will not be offended its not the baker that's at fault - it's the couple who are attempting to force their own religious beliefs on the baker.

[Daniela1982]

If Muslims are allowed to wear a head covering because of their religion when others can't, why can't a baker refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding if it is against his religion? My question is why make a big deal of it? Just go to another baker as any straight person would do if someone didn't want to bake them a cake for some reason. Why do people always have to play the "gay" card to get their own way? What if a baker didn't want to make the cake below because of religious beliefs? Should they be forced to also? A baker in Portland, Oregon was forced out of business for this very reason as they refused to bake a gay cake.

[KrakenAttackin]

@daniela1982. Exactly right.

[PinkMichae]

Not at all. Private buisness's can refuse service to anyone for any reason. Also I think it's wrong to force someone who doesn't believe in homosexuality to make a cake that goes against their beliefs.

Just like I wouldn't force an atheist baker to make me a Christian cake if he didn't want too. I'd just find someone who doesn't mind.

[OlderAndWiser]

I support maximum freedom for all Americans, including bakers.

[ohshee]

Any business owner has the right to refuse business from anybody but here's the deal no matter who it is that they refuse to do business with it's their loss because in time word gets around and the amount of money that he can make by making that cake and other cakes they're going to follow because business is Word of Mouth they would be fools not to make a cake and do whatever it is they want done to that cake and they better make it perfect and that guy 10 times more than business. No it's not against the law. And it's not illegal but it is stupid

[Kaneki05]

Of course. Not different to refusing sales to people of color.
Allowing people to be discriminators like this is what ends up with people of color getting forced to only sit in one part of the bus. Leads to harassment. Leads to people not wanting to come out as gay. Leads to people instigating hate.

People can say it's okay because at the end of the day owners choice. But they do not think past the bigger impact that has on society when multiple people are doing that and giving that thought out to the world.

If you allow discrimination to happen, it will only grow. Do you think people like Martian Luther King just said ah well it's the buses owners option if they make us sit in certain spots?
Do you think he would just go, I dream of a world were people are still refused to be served due to the color of our skin.

No doubt same arguments can be done to anything discrimination like this.

[hahahmm]

No. Forcing someone to make a cake for a homosexual wedding is denying the baker the right to religious freedom as there's long standing religious beliefs against homosexual marriage. It would also be wrong to force a baker to make a cake for a satanic ritual or that shows support for anything going against his/her faith.

[hahahmm]

And remember that all of the people saying the baker is wrong are the same people who told us it was a good idea to treat every trans person as whatever gender they claim to be... but now these experts & geniuses are whining because they realize that fake women can take over women's sports. Something the rest of us knew many years ago. Good intentions often have bad endings.

[BrosephBrostar]

I sure hope that wasn't your understanding of the Colorado bakery case.

To answer the question as it is written, no, obviously not, you shouldn't discriminate based on protected characteristics. That wasn't the meat and potatoes of the bakery case, though. The whole point of the case was that the baker didn't want to make a custom cake for them, which they insisted on. Let's also put aside the fact that they trolled various bakeries, because that isn't relevant to the case at all. You can't force someone to make a cake that has a specific message on it, like "God loves faggots" or something. You can't compel speech.

[Stoner710]

If we want to get rid of freedom of religion in this country we have no choice but to say yes it should be legal. Islam Christianity and Judaism all see homosexuality as a sin and to comply to bake a cake for a gay wedding or a gender transition party goes against there religious beliefs. If you are a secular baker or atheist then yes it should be illegal for you to refuse survive because then your just being a dick, Religion is the only exception to this rule.

[Twalli]

If the cake is already baked and for sale?

[Stoner710]

@Twalli so it would be a matter of not telling the baker for what it’s for, If you bought a pre-made cake without giving an explanation what it’s for I’m sure the religious baker would sell it. Even religious bakers are willing to bake a birthday cake for gays and trans people it’s the wedding or gender transition parties that they have an issue with

[Twalli]

They bake wedding cakes you buy one that is already baked. Legally you can't denybthrm even if you know they're gay. It's in the public market.

[Stoner710]

@Twalli actually you can with a religious exemption. You do have a right to refuse service to anyone

[Twalli]

No they can't, that's why stores don't have signs in the window that say no blacks allowed or no gays allowed

[Stoner710]

@Twalli there is no religious examination for discrimination based on race. There is a religious exemption based on homosexuality this is the idea of freedom of religion it’s right there in the first amendment. Also is very likely that the civil rights act is unconstitutional due to the first amendment as well due to the right of Association. If you don’t want to associate with a black person that is your constitutional right (it does mean your a racist piece of shit and the free market will chew you up and spit you out because Americans in 2021 hate racism on both sides even though the left doesn’t realize it’s being racist most of the time) but technically the civil right bill and the constitution are in conflict with one another

[Twalli]

If that's the case it would have been repealed. Yet we have to also look at the 14th Amendment which is just as important as any other one. The Bill of Rights doesn't supersede any other Amendments

[Stoner710]

@Twalli yes the civil right bill should be repealed at this point. I could be legal if it was temporary like for 10 years to get everyone use to serving everyone of seton races.

Also when it says “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” This would include freedom on religion the amendments are designed to work with the bill of rights. p not against the bill of right. So for religious people they would be protected by the 14th amendment from the state coming in and saying “you can’t practice your religion in your business this has to be a secular establishment” would be a violation of the 1st and 14th amendment. Therefore religious people do have a right to deny service for a gay wedding or a gender transition party. He would not be allowed to refuse Service that they were asking for a birthday cake or a cake for a business party or going away party or coming home party.

Think peyote is illegal but some Native American religious ceremonies use peyote, and the federal government isn’t allowed to arrest them. Sam e logic applies to a religious baker

[Twalli]

Yet you can't exclude people from you place of buisness for race or sexual orientation

[Stoner710]

@Twalli no you can’t prevent them from entering the building, You can exclude yourself from participating is a gay wedding for religious purposes. This is what the 1st amendment protects. The constitution overrules any law passed by Congress. When a law is in conflict with the constitution then the constitution overrules that law.

This is why masterpieces cake shop is allowed to refuse survives for a gay wedding the guy is Christian so he refused to bake the wedding cake for a gay wedding. It is his constitutional right to do so. That is the law simple as that. And guess what another cake shop 15 minutes away agreed to bake the cake free of charge so everything worked out in the end.

[Twalli]

I know, but some people thought you could refuse entry to gays.

[Stoner710]

@Twalli well that’s stupid. No the law says you can’t decimate again gays if there coming in for a birth day cake or any other form of food. The only time you can refuse a type of survives to gays in a gay wedding due to religious exemption. Your Catholic and the Catholic Church thinking homosexuality is a sin then you can refuse that survive under the law same with a gender transition cake. If a trans person or gay person came in and said I want a birthday cake or a cake for an social event like a going away party of something like that then you wouldn’t be allowed to refuse survives.

So basically the only 2 thing they can refuse based off of religious exemption is
Gender transition cake
Gay wedding cake.
Nothing more and nothing less.

We do need to make this clearer to the public. The civil right bill gives gays protection for not being decimated against race sexual orientation and sex.
The 1st amendment protects your religious freedom. The solution is understand they have a religious right to not bake for an event they find sinful but should recommend a shot that will sell them a wedding cake and the gay couple agrees to go there

[Anonymous]

This is a slippery slope. I believe in religious freedom. However, it is discrimination. However, if that person believes in doing the cake, then they are going against their God and putting themselves at risk for eternal persecution, then who I am to say they are wrong. There's plenty of other bakeries. LGBTIA+ WHATEVER should just find another bakery. BUT then again, it is illegal because it's a form of discrimination. A baker can refuse to make cakes based on race, gender, religion, political party, etc. It's a difficult situation.

[KrakenAttackin]

Anon... why difficult? Do you have to let anyone into your home? Than why should your business be required to serve anyone? It really is that simple.

[KrakenAttackin]

What's to stop a gay couple from opening a LGBTQ only bakery and refuse to serve straight people? I would have no problem with that.

[Opinion Owner]

@KrakenAttackin Because it is illegal for a business to discriminate that's why.

[KrakenAttackin]

Op... I don't think it should be.

[purplepoppy]

There was a case like this in northern Ireland recently. The baker argued that he'd happily bake the gay couple a cake but not write on the progay slogan because of his religious beliefs. He won the case. It boils down to You can't legally discriminate against people but you can't be forced to support their beliefs either.

[KrakenAttackin]

@purplepoppy But look at all the time and expense the baker had to go through. This is wrong. An individual, a business, should be able to refuse service to anyone for any reason.

[purplepoppy]

Does that include political beliefs, religious ones, race, nationality etc. Do we let business return to the good old days where they all had signs up saying "no dogs, blacks or irish"?

[KrakenAttackin]

@purplepoppy. Absolutely. If you are a black owned business and you don't like white people you should not have to serve them. To me the question is ensuring equal opportunity to start a business.

[Amy7777]

The baker isn't refusing to make a cake for a homosexual couple, he or she is refusing to make a homosexual cake. How would he even know their sexual orientation, unless it was apparent in their cake design?

This is no different than someone asking the baker to make a pornographic cake. If the baker isn't comfortable with that, the customers are welcome to go somewhere else.

[Lionman95]

No because people should always have the choice of what they wanna do, therefore they need to decline something. If you take the right to decline away you reduce their personal freedom.
I don´t think it helps homosexuals that everybody else is made to accept them because would make the gender topic look an ideology.

[CuriousJC]

It's kind of by law, can't refuse a wedding cake for any type of couple regardless if it's lesbians homos or transsexuals. Because you're basically robbing them if they gave you the money for that particular wedding cake and they expect you to pay up.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Illegal? Absolutely not.

Are they very bright for turning down business and inviting bad reviews? Not at all.

You are free to run your business like that, but please don't come whining when it makes news and you lose business over it either. That's people on both sides using their rights.

[JimBeams]

And please don't whine and sue the poor baker, and make him lose a lot of money becaused you whined about it. But that's what this is all about. He's now on a gay hit list, and they will target him.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Conspiracy theory much?

[JimBeams]

Don't pay much attention to the news, much?

[KrakenAttackin]

@ez-bri-z. You just validated the conspiracy theory by talking about "bad reviews". We know the left will immediately seek to "cancel" anything they don't like.

One huge victory against cancel culture happened in the town where I went to college. Check out "Gibsons Bakery Lawsuit".

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I just don't have it in me to fight this right now. So ok, yeah.

[Cro_Laura]

I don't think it should be illegal but I will say thats messed up.

I mean its a cake for wedding it's not like they gonna turn you into LGBT member by make one. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone does reject it tho world is full of different.

I will just show what type of person he/she is if they refused to make a cake.

[Twalli]

As per the SCOTUS case it is legal to deny making a speciality cake. Any speciality can be denied for any reason. Yet if they ask for a cake and don't request any special additions you cannot refuse. You sell cakes, they can buy or order a cake. You can't deny them that, but when you design something unique you have the ability to deny service to anyone for said designer piece that is ordered. If it's for sale at that time though, they can buy it

[andreasderjuengere]

If I can be told by others what I produce in my own business and what I can't...
that's not longer my own (ed) business.
I was recently approach by an 'unwanted' customer; I just called for a price that he could not afford - and I never heard from him again.
The Baker in question could have done the same.

[andreasderjuengere]

(forgive the typing errors :))

[FinalFantasyBro]

Truthfully most businesses can allow anyone they see fit but they should also get criticize for discrimination. If the baker doesn't want to allow gay people access they legally could but they will not only breaking civil rights but they technically be earning less. Also I think people who forbid people for discrimination purposes tend to be real assholes and I wouldn't want anything to do with them.

[Recurrence]

I make pottery, and I’m an atheist, I’m not going to turn away a Christian family wanting a dishset just because they’re Christian. 🤷‍♂️ Would it be the same the other way around? Probably, but I feel like Christians have a bigger problem with me than I them.

[AliceTheNguyener]

Refusing to bake wedding cake for an lgbt couple is discrimination and illegal, BUT refusing to write pro-queer message on the cake is legal. The same applies to interracial couples, interreligious couples, or any other pairing you disagree with.

[Nachowedgie]

Its not actually illegal

[JimBeams]

The baker didn't refuse to make a cake because of the people asking, he refused to make a gay cake.
There's a big difference.

[Rob17792]

it's not illegal. businesses can turn down whatever clients they want and refuse to provide service to people

[GhostMochi]

It shouldn't be illegal. That's just stupid. If the baker has an issue with it, just go to someone else who is willing to make it with no problems.

[doopayo]

Yes because that would break civil rights laws. I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to discriminate anyone on the base on color, gender, sexuality, or gender expression in most states.

[Amy7777]

The judge disagreed with you.

[dustybiker]

@Amy7777 Human interpretation of the law.

[Amy7777]

@dustybiker

LOL. Yeah, as apposed to the other kind.