any strongly held belief will look similar to a religion eventually.
nationalism and religion are both very helpful for society
religion gives people a greater purpose and calms them, depending on the religion it might also inspire good values that promote community, it also raises the birth rate which is essential to producing high taxable bases and soldiers.
nationalism is the glue that holds society together. the mythos we use to keep everyone on the same side. Nationalism gets a bad rap but i can tell you there are many genocides in history that happened due to not enough nationalism such as rwanda and yugoslavia
people went a little off the deep end in blaming nationalism and religion for their problems. truth is that was just the easy way out
Both are very good for society, look at the Balkans (i'm as well from one of thous countrys)
I can't even imaginate my country whidout one of them, if even both will somehow disapear from my country then i will belive my nation is death.
@Kaneki05 you are completly and ignorant child.
I definitely agree in many ways like I come from Kurdistan and without nationalism there would be nothing left there. there's a reason why we have the biggest population with no country, our people are United. Some are united with religion and some through their pride but I wish they would stop with so much religion over there because Kurds weren't originally muslim until the arabization happened over there.
The kurdush people remaind me of my country when whas separated between Hungary, Russia and Ottoman Turkey, we whas one nation who wanted to unite under the same ideas and the nationalism bring us more close and defet the enemy. Olso religion suport this ideas for us and help us very much many time.
This happen to all the balkan nation in the pohot that i posted.
I’m really not sur. But I’ll do some research and get back to you soon. Hopefully tomorrow
🙃🤪hey just so you know I use emojis A LOT. So it is a little confusing but for me it works. Hope you can understand them
😜😛
Opinion
12Opinion
Both are founded in dogmatic views so neither are good for society and just as bad.
Dogmatic and Tribal stuff needs to be wiped out for true progression.
Dogmatic is when a strong opinion is stated as fact and has cause many society problems with people just making laws over the fact they didn't like something therefore claimed it to be factually bad when in reality it don't effect them at all. For example trying to make out Gay's are evil, There is 0 facts or merit behind this idea.
Yet there is many through history who have tried to impose this as a fact other than just a strong opinion one has that is obviously false like most dogmatic views.
It's basically like declaring something to be true without any actual proof to why. Which religion and nationalism would just then say well god say's so, well our country say's so. Therefore it must be true. It's just simply people not thinking for themselves in a lot of cases.
And to answer that next question nah. People will always have these bad views. To say we could have neither is like saying people won't abuse people no more. Sadly people will just always have mindsets that lead to extremist views.
Even in area's were religion is becoming less and less there is actually proof people are now replacing religion with astrology sighs.
Nationalism and religion are a importand part of a society, thous ideologys keep people unitedin order to achive the same goal for theyr country and not dived them.
Nationalism is what make a country strong and religion is what they give them hopes, thous 2 things are what any country in the world need in order to prosper.
Ah thanks for been an example of a Dogmatic view.
You see here this guy say's it religion gives hope like nothing else in the world can do that then forgets to mention all hate and despair it creates to the freedom of sexuality's, freedom of expression, freedom of your choice to not have a baby, Nvm racism that is involved.
Christians for example used to call black people, devils no doubt some still do. And the way's religion is very close minded to other people of other cultures and people who don't follow that religion.
These are all things that you can factually check up just by doing any research into history of religion. What you cannot factually prove without religion, hope also wouldn't exist.
Then there is a lot i can say about nationalism to and point out all the factual points that is bad but cannot be bothered at this time. But it's pretty much similar to why religion is.
Why the way of how i do sex or you do must give us rights?
Religion suport the idea of having babys (adoptions/procreations) in a natural way whitch mean traditional family (a family can be started only whit a man and a woman been togeders) because is the only way that life is born.
What hate are you talking a bout the Balkans and East Europ have absolutly zero problem whit theyr religion Christian Orthodox and Islam from Turkey. Islam have more respect for us and we do for them more then the western countrys have.
A popular saying at the time was “Better the Turkish turban than the Papal tiara.” In other words, the Orthodox Byzantines considered it better to be ruled by the Muslim Turks than to go against their religious beliefs and give in to the Catholic Church.
What are you talking about, racism is only in the damn USA and western countrys, you guys invented this bullshit, now don't throw your diry shit on us.
From your talking about religion i can tell you don't know nothing about Orthodox.
Catholics and Protestants are shit religion because of theyr past.
Orthodox had been a victim of theyr agresion in the past, for your information
Orthodox never hurt anybody, we didn't invade other countrys to force our belives on them like you guys did and because you can't force your opinion on me you run away and ignor this conversation.
YOU COWERD!
So your religion supports same sex marriage? Your religion supports abortion? Your religion supports and allows people to be atheists? your religion don't mind if scientists are directly saying what you believe just simply cannot be true? Your religion supports the right to sex work between consenting adults? Your religion supports Trans?
If any of these are a No. Then yes your religion hurts freedom and rights based on dogmatic views. If all are yes then well great!
1. Yes, my religion suport same sex marriage, because is the only way life is born (from sex/love between a man and a woman) 2 mens or 2 womans can't NEVER make a kid.
2. My religion don't suport abortion, but doesn't condamn it because ther are situation that hapen whidout our will. My religion don't force people to give birt of to abort if they don't want to. But it suport the idea of responsability and help thous who want to be helped and need to be helped.
3. My religion doesn't suport anybody to be anything, any person is what they want and belive they are, my religion OTHODOX CHRISTIANITY (EASTERN ORTHODOX) suport any person to be a good person. Jesus had say "let thous who make good to make good and thous who make bad aks to make bad akts"
4. Sciences and Religion are conected and even NASA had been prove that a real story from the bible whas true, when God move back the Sun on the sky for some ours. (REAL FACT FROM NASA)
5. If by "sex work" you say prostitution, then no and is not a safe or noble work. The simple fact you are seling your own body, the only thing that you will alwase have it for yourself to take care of it and just give it to other to do what they want is not right, lets not talk about all the desises, depresions, accident and crazy people who want to do other things that may be painful or hurt. SO NO IT NOT SUPORT.
6. Trans doesn't exist, ther are mens or womans. Learn som biology, my religion suport education, not ignorance. Not just man have penis and womans pussy, but olso man have prostate whitch can't be removed or even live whidout same for woman whit uterus, olso womans and mans ai diferent from any internal sistems biologicly. Boys had a much bigger heard rate, more muscular no mather how much they train.
In biology mens had, are and will alwase be superior to womans. In any sport mans and womans don't play togeders because mens can alwase hurt a same lever girl.
The gender differences is the moust absurd thing that had ever been created.
Somebody one say "We should treet a men who is akting like a woman as a woman?"
Therefore your religion hurts people and has dogmatic beliefs. And this part was just totally untrue lmao Sciencesand Religion are connected and even NASA had been prove that a real story from the bible was true, when God move back the Sun on the sky for some ours. (REAL FACT FROM NASA).
Good day.
You say this, but your views towards dogmatism and tribalism is very tribalistic in itself "tribal stuff needs to be wiped out for true progression"
Irony.
@Kaneki05 So like since you think it's nearly impossible to have neither (I agree) then what do you think the best thing to do is? I feel like you should be able to see how nationalism can be good at least because I come from Kurdistan and our people are very united by their pride for people and soon to be country. I think without these things they would have been wiped out by surrounding countries just like the Chaldean people were.
@disgustingweebtrash nah cause mine view is based of factual bases. Fact 2 men getting married hurts no and is none one business to outlaw it or shame or anything negative towards then by fact most if not all do shame/outlaw and the rest.
Now if i said that but then factually no religion have stopped gay marriage then it would be dogmatic because i couldn't defend it with actual proof for why i know this to be the case.
The true path out of tribalism is secession from anything that holds you to tribalism, but you are inherently tribalistic about "progression" and the "greater benefit of humanity" thus you practice what you hate.
@disgustingweebtrash Nothing triblisitcal about using facts and history to come to conclusions but you entitled to your own opinion.
Society will collapse and these feelings will rise again, empires crumble and turn to dust and that is no exception today.
Just going by everything i've seen, Anything that opens the door to you can follow blindly will lead to bad things. Whether it be religion, nationalism and hell probably science too (Though i would say if you truly understood science you would question everything not just follow blindly). People use such things to their own gains and history shows nationalism and religion are the two highest things that people follow blindly.
If you mean generally, yes, I find that most Christians don't follow their religion properly and to the word, but instead what the church of Man preaches.
Your views are accepted as long as society is within a golden era and we are in the greatest of them all, but all good things come to an end and people will be captivated by words of dogmatism and tribalism for it is inherently human to be tribalistic, to wipe something as that out you would need a golden era spanning thousands of years to fully domesticate humans to the psychological level, their generational years are not as fast as other mammals so evolution takes longer for them to feel. The alternative to this is modifying genealogy, but at that point you have created a new being entirely.
Nationalism and Religion answer humans to a very deep level so I cannot see it ever disappearing unless you instituted mass surveillance on the masses to weed out people suspected of it and in my personal opinion such systems should be opposed because they are methods of control for governments.
I personally accept both of them in society as they are indicators for how stable your society is, when everyone is comfortable and happy, even if they expressed extremist views they would be too cowardly to act on it out of fear of loss of comfort. People will only act on these if robbed of comfort to which.
You might oppose these two things but in any future case of societal collapse which is becoming increasingly likely in my opinion, these views could be used to your advantage for survival when you come to understand them.
@disgustingweebtrash I love that! I think you put it perfect.
"you instituted mass surveillance on the masses to weed out people suspected" yeah that's never a good idea i agree. Plus that would be hurting people's rights just the same as what they would do.
It's more about trying to shift Christianity and etc to be accepting not about wiping them out. Although Christians are on a natural decent anyway and losing people daily.
But other religions are on rise cause people just follow whatever. But making them whatever's more less hurtful is all we can do. But i don't think there anymore useful than that really.
You would say it's a good idea for yourself, but the people you elect next term could advance it to say... "anyone that talks bad about the state" it's a slippery slope, do not obtain short term goals without thinking for the long term, do not give the state institutions it can use to advance further tyranny, instead take those institutions from the state so that even if the people you fear get into power they cannot use any of the tools you've put in beforehand.
People are becoming less religious in the West only, worldwide it still grows because your values are only applicable in the West whilst it's going through a golden era. If you look to history, there has been many collapses and it is prideful to say that it cannot happen to us within our own life time.
My opinion isn't really talking about society collapse and all that. So wouldn't really know. And no one can really predict that stuff. Your acting as if what you say will factually happen but who knows. I am mostly just stating my thoughts on how society is now and if it continued.
In times of hardship, your morality and you as a person will change.
This is a good question, I think it really depends. In a perfect world religion would be first but in the real world I'm taking nationalism any day. It's also something people lack nowadays like you said especially in westernized areas.
The one that is best is the one where everyone respects everyone beliefs
we can never respect everyone's beliefs and such a world can never exist. some beliefs directly contradict one another and we can't live beside them
the more tolerant we are, the less integrity we have
Our world is not perfect
And we don't want it to be a perfect world we cannot learn if it's perfect but there's no reason do we have to bash each other or belittle each other are put people down to make yourself feel better I say this bullshit there's a lot of things that people do that I don't like but I look at it as if that is them that's who they want to be that's their choice we all have a choice and our choices either to be 1 and make our planet the best place to live or we can be against each other because it's chaos and it will turn into destruction
If you're playing sports what team do you want to be on the one that is in sync did everybody is there for one goal to win to be the best to make things flow to be happy are you want to be on a team that nobody helps anybody else succeed and you get nowhere you end up losing
live and let live only works in times when the disagreements are small. but as those disagreements get larger you will have to make choices about who to tolerate and who not to.
a group of people who minds their own business will end up on the corpse pile of history
Religion is less harmful than nationalism as it at least has pro social elements. Both can be harmful though if dogma instead of individual interpretation becomes the focus.
nationalism is essential to a society's survival. multiple genocides in history have happened due to a lack of nationalism
Other way around
it doesn't need to be one way around. its both. nationalism could cause genocide and has. but a lack of nationalism has also caused genocide. such as yugoslavia, or rwanda
They are often come together but one can be religious and not a nationalist and one can also be a nationalist but not religious.
this ain't a question I'd ever expect you to post 😂
yes ma'am 🤐
Somewhat.
Ideologies have a tendency to look like religion because it's how people think.
Yes they have some similarities. I think they can both be good and bad for societies
Anything compared to religion is better.
religion has done a lot of good for the west. christianity is the only reason we have rights. its because of them slavery and human sacrifice are gone
infact; 90% of all genocide is done by atheists
@007kingifrit We only have rights because the fore fathers made the US Constitution that way and didn't trust Christians or that religion at all. Plus the spread of Christianity has destroyed more than protected through it's missionaries, Crusades, Inquisition, destruction of native cultures, brainwashing, intimidation, and fear tactics. Then you have the Holy people like Jim Jones, David Koresh, Westboro Baptist Church among others.
the constitution is literally built on christian values dude. our money says one nation under god for a reason. the first line of the dec of independence says creator
your list of bad religious people is instantly overridden by my statement that 90% of genocide is done by atheists
@007kingifrit The Fore Father were Deists. They believed in God but not in organized religion. And "IN GOD WE TRUST" first appeared on the two-cent piece in 1864; then printed on paper currency since 1957. Both way after the US Constitution was written.
i don't think the term deists has any real world application. nor do i think its true here. they were christian. they wrote extensively about how islam was bad
have you ever even read the federalist papers or any of the founding father's writings?
@007kingifrit I have. Plus other writing from them. Jefferson warned not to trust Christians in a letter to another founding father.
that needs a source and context because the entire country is founded on judeo christian beliefs
They’re both good up to a point
Dm me in private I have to discuss something
Religion
