Is toxic masculinity a common problem in the modern era or is it all just smoke and mirrors?

[Kayla45]

For the record I'm not on either side, men and women can be equally toxic and obnoxious. Thoughts?

[BossThe2nd]

I can't speak for other men, but I've personally never felt pressured to act "like a man".
I've cried whenever I felt like crying, I've turned down sex when I wasn't comfortable, I've worn countless boots and clothes that have earned me "lol you gay" from male friends and I've proudly shown off partners who I was told "looked like dude"s.

Those things don't bother me, I don't need other people's approval to "feel like a man".

What bothers me is when I also demonstrate certain "traditionally masculine" behaviors such as: not crying at times, not wanting to "talk", not "opening up", not being emotional enough only to then get labeled "toxic" by a certain demographic of modern women.

Women who don't respect what I am, who call my personality traits a defect or an unfortunate product of my upbringing and patronize me by insisting on treating me like a victim who just doesn't know any better.

I do feel pressured to act like someone I'm not in those cases.
Because I'm made to feel like a villain if I don't meet those expectations and my relationships suffer.

[globetrotter22]

I’m confused about what you wrote above. Do your relationships suffer because you acted the way you wanted to act or do they suffer because you are not acting masculine enough?

[genericname85]

i think the word itself is an expression of toxic femininity. men predominantly resort to physical violence to resolve conflict. women resort to public humiliation and deconstruction of ones character. online physical violence won't work. but what works is female deconstruction of character. and where do you see exressions of the so called "toxic masculinty"? nowhere but in the media ranting about how "oh so bad" cis white men are. in reality you find this shit incredibly rarely and it is usually individuals that show behavior that litterally nobody is condoning.

mean while toxic femininity is everywhere. in cancle culture, in the "me too" movement and in the "diversification" of the media (meaning oppression of the majority groups by the necessity of virtue signaling and forced quotas of certain minorities in everything).

[TruthBringer]

This is the best thing I've read on this website so far. Keep spreading the truth!

[genericname85]

@TruthBringer usually my opinions are fairly unpopular xD I'm surprised people seem to agree.

[Rogue77]

I don't know anything about your other opinions, but this one is spot on. 🎯

[TruthBringer]

@genericname85 You should definitely write more of these, mate. You've pretty much pointed out that "toxic masculinity" is nothing more but a buzzterm used to patronize men and give an illusion that anything bad coming from a man has to do with masculinity.

[genericname85]

@TruthBringer i feel slightly bad about using toxic femininity tho. Because that's an equally bullshit term obviously. I'm not sure if that came across.

[TruthBringer]

@genericname85 I agree. Yet it is effective in debunking "toxic masculinity" all by itself. Because if people would stand still and think why toxic femininity would be a bullshit term, the same could be said for "toxic masculinity". Unless you're a misandrist or a feminist that is. They will push the "toxic masculinity" agenda while claiming "there is no such thing as toxic femininity".

[genericname85]

@TruthBringer there's toxic individuals. Not toxic genders. That's the point.

[MzAsh]

It seems to be a big issue on the internet. However, most of these toxic men are much more meek and mild in person.

[leosp5000]

Masculinity is not toxic, you are just being a misandrist

[MzAsh]

Masculinity isn’t toxic but it can absolutely be used in a toxic way.

[leosp5000]

Women can be just as violent and evil as men. You just hate men.

[MzAsh]

Of course women can. But this thread isn’t about women.

[RichSD]

Toxic sexism of any kind is equally bad, whether it's feminism or masculinity. Toxic is toxic. I know about equal numbers of toxic men and women and neither are any better than the other.

[MzAsh]

Indeed.

[ADFSDF1996]

Toxic masculinity is just a term used by feminists to promote the abomination known as “effeminacy”.

[Exterminatore]

Perfectly stated.

[Shizunk]

As usual, different people use this term differently. One version is very political, blaming the problems of society on stereotypical male behavior. That is utter nonsense.
Then there are the simplistic versions pretty much defining toxic masculinity as violence and abuse, then only spending time pondering the causes. If that's all it is, we don't even need the term. Violence is violence.
The most nuanced approach mostly describes healthy traits and behaviors that may be problematic when exaggerated.
For example the idea that a man should not be easily discouraged by fear, discomfort and pain. Nobody wants men to be weaklings, but if modeled too insistently, supposedly it leads to emotional distance, risky or violent behaviors to prove one's toughness. The extreme end is gang members in London stabbing people as a rite of passage, but it may a lot subtler.
That last one may be occasionally defined in a way I wouldn't immediately dismiss. The issue is that the more applicable to real life you make it, the thinner the line between healthy and unhealthy behavior. And from there it is all too easy to disagree just how much stoicism, competition and disagreeableness is just right and how much is too much.

As soon as people try to suggest that it's a difference of kind not of degree, they quickly lose me and fall in the smoke and mirrors category. If it is about the degree, then what is toxic for one is cool for another.
I do have an idea of toxic stereotypically male behavior. But I don't know anyone who actually behaves like that in real life. And I know a lot of people. This leads me to the conclusion, that toxic masculinity is anywhere between a rare character flaw and a political propaganda strawman. Nothing we should be really concerned with. But perhaps I just live in a very civilized social bubble.

[Domanihatu]

Toxic behavior is not gender specific… There are toxic behaviors on both sides of this issue. The extreme feminist will tell you that any masculine behavior regardless of intent is harmful and needs snuffed out. The extreme misogynist will tell you that women are out of control and will use any dirty trick in the book to get her way. The truth lies (as it always does) somewhere in the middle. There are still men out there who long for the old days where women were nothing but ‘show pieces’ hanging on their arm and feel that a “good woman should be seen and not heard”. And, there are plenty of women out there who will use their assumed vulnerability as a weapon and accuse a man of gross misconduct (physically, mentally or emotionally) just out of pure spite regardless of whether the accusation is true or not. So, to answer your question, no I don’t feel that “toxic masculinity” is any more common of a problem than “toxic feminism”, both are insidious and dangerous. And, both need to be reeled in by non-toxic men and women respectively.

[fonduegirl]

Toxic masculinity, the way I see it, is society expecting men to behave a certain way. The criteria for heterosexual male, a fixed one. It isn't much since it's based on evolutionary perspective, but rigidity can cause problems to both genders.

For example, say a man is polyamorous. The fact that his wife has a lover is an acceptable fact for him, he doesn't mind. People with toxic masculinity, mostly other men would shame that choice? What kind of man gets turned on by other men thrusting his wife? What if they have a kid, what kind of loser raises someone else's kid? He must be sexually inadequate if she's seeing someone. He must be too much of a loser to break up! Are some assumptions.

It

1. Calls the lady his property
2. Doesn't respect consenting
3. Know no such thing as boundaries
4. Calling the child a burden too
5. Shaming his choice

Because a "real man" dates a "real woman" who gives birth to "real child" and they live happily for real. Anything else is crap.

[t-8900]

What's the point of getting married in such a situation exactly? You get married for exclusivity. Otherwise just date a bunch of people. Raising another man's child who knocked up your wife is actually... very very pathetic and weak. The marriage ends up benefitting just her and imho her love is just an illusion and it's all to her benefit in the end. I can understand poly relationships to some extent. But when you actually do go into full on cucking you are just her slave, not someone she really cares about. He dies tomorrow in I highly doubt she's gonna be thinking about him for very long if at all. Relationships are about compromise, not for one party to ha e everything at the expense of another.

[fonduegirl]

You're proving my point. Thank you.

[t-8900]

How so? Because I think relationships should be 50/50?

[fonduegirl]

No, because you're invalidating polyamorous community

[t-8900]

No I'm not. Read again. I am against the full on cucking. Also are these sane women allowing him to go impregnate other women and have sex with them?

[fonduegirl]

It's not cuckold if partners are poly

[fonduegirl]

Of course, if he's in relationship with the said other woman

[t-8900]

Yes it is. Anytime you raise another guys kid it's cucking read the definition.

[t-8900]

So why get married? I'm just curious what yj benefit is that you couldn't get from just being in an open dating scene?

[fonduegirl]

Not if it's group relationship.

[fonduegirl]

Because you love your primary partner and they're okay with more lovers.

[fonduegirl]

Open relationships are similar but slightly different.

[t-8900]

@anon1903 so again what's the point of marriage? Do you even know the words to the wedding vows? It's like upfront lying.

[t-8900]

and here is a hypothetical what happens if the husband said he was opened to the idea and you find him crying and the when you ask him whats wrong he tells you that he thought he could handle it but he can't. You just gonna up and leave him or cut ties with the other guy?

[fonduegirl]

I'd talk to both of them. Have them seated. Ask their problems. Discuss. Lay boundaries. If my primary partner still doesn't approve, yes I might have to cut off the other guy or girl.

[t-8900]

imho if that happens you need to be talking to your husband, not the other guy. the other guy is a backseat to the guy you actually professed your vows and love to. that has nothing to do with being "owned" that has to do with the fact he's the one who stepped up to be with you. so yeah you would owe it to him to stop. and if you couldnt then you dont love him and aren't made for marriage

[fonduegirl]

That's exactly what I said

[t-8900]

right what i'm saying is you need to ask him IF he wants that sit down with the other guy or just with you. obviously if the idea has bothered him the last person he wants involved in that conversation is the other guy. another aspect of marriage is that confidentiality if he wants it. But I've talked to at least 2 girls here on gag that admitted they would leave their husbands if they didn't get to keep having sex outside the wedding bed. My point is that's simply not love. You basically married a shmuck as a security blanket while you go out to f other dudes. They are willing to throw away everything for some extra dick, which is abhorrent to me. Idc what anyone says. If you are prioritizing your sex life over the relationship you're not fit for any relationship, you're too self centered to really love. And for the record I have no problem with the poly community. I have a problem with the idea of cucking though. You have every opportunity to be safe without that scenario playing out. Have more respect for your husband. Imho such an arrangement should afford your actual husband exclusive reproductive rights and access.

[fonduegirl]

Honey, you're basically talking open relationship here.

[fonduegirl]

Polyamory is slightly different.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Just want to add a few things to this. Vows can literally be anything. It doesn't have to be the standard ones you are used to hearing. I can throw in a vow that says I promise to always wash laundry on Tuesdays if I wanted to. Probably not the best guideline to use there.

Second, I am also poly. I have 0 problem if my wife wants to go out and have sex with a guy. She has 0 problem if I want to. Should we be held to different standards just because it is not a heterosexual relationship? Of course not, but at the same time in my eyes the difference is in cucking vs poly, is whether or not the act of watching your spouse get railed by someone else is what is doing it for you.

In cucking, it is about being submissive to someone else and that feeling of helplessness to stop what is happening in front of you. (I am sort of guessing here as this isn't my kink, but anyone who is into it, feel free to chime in). There can absolutely still be love and respect, it's just the kink of the act itself. It could be considered like those who are really into degrading kinks. I know there are quite a few guys on this site who want girls to make fun of their dick size. I don't think their wife would love them any less if they did fulfill that kink for them. If anything it might show even more trust that they all do it safely and with controls in place for any of them to stop it at any time.

Poly on the other hand says, "we love each other, but I can also be in love with others and also sex is involved, or sometimes it is not love and it is just sex or maybe no sex and just love (the last one holds true in my case) and that is ok too. In the end, I love you just as much as I would if I am not in a relationship with others."

Sometimes marriage is more of a convenience than it is for love and really that needs to be taken into account. It might be that I have kids with one person so for insurance purposes it makes sense to be married to them while I also date others.

[fonduegirl]

Thanks, Ez.

[t-8900]

@Ez-Bri-Z well a cuck fetish and being cucked are different. To come full circle to the "cuck" you must be made to watch that happen but also be strong-armed to watch her be inseminated and then raise the deadbeats kid. This is not in the official term but it's derived from the Cuckoo bird which does this same sort of thing. Unfaithfulness is also involved. For it to be true cucking it would be unbeknownst to the man or cheating on her man. Is it cheating if he gives permission and its an actual controlled environment which could be stopped at any moment? The answer is probably a no. I believe in the system of equal exchange, things come at a price. What you do must also come with the expectations that the other can and will do. For me love and reproduction will always be exclusive for me and that's not negotiable. A wife can love her husband but also not respect him. There's a fine line that can tip the scales out of favor for the man in such a way that he is emotionally disowned or socially disrespected. I would never play that game tbh.

"Sometimes marriage is more of a convenience than it is for love and really that needs to be taken into account. It might be that I have kids with one person so for insurance purposes it makes sense to be married to them while I also date others."

I guess? Whats the other person getting out of it? imho relationships are about compromise, give/take and thats actually what makes them stronger than regular relationships.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Being "cucked" by your definition is just a wife cheating then. If you are watching it happen then that means on some level you are into it and it loops back around to being a fetish.

[t-8900]

@Ez-Bri-Z according to the definition it would need to require cheating and potentially raising illegitimate children without knowledge. This is just the history and the definition of the word. what you are describing is literally just a beta male, not a cuck. He's submitting to other men, pretty basic to understand. doesn't mean he's worthless but his place is at the bottom of the social hierarchy for sure.

[fonduegirl]

Um, birth control exists

[t-8900]

@anon1903 it does. many forms in fact. but you mentioned a scenario in which your husband would be raising another man's child. that imho is messy and not right or fair to someone who entered that marriage with you unless he wanted kids and was sterile. then thats different

[fonduegirl]

These things are cleared in communication of boundaries.

And there are poly people who'd willingly raise someone else's kid as their own. It's like adoption.

[t-8900]

@anon1903 if its made very clear and he still wants it he can go for it. that would be a true beta cuck. not that he is a bad person or worthless. but he is a weaker man imho, yes. a fertile man who wants kids should strive for his own blood line to succeed above all others. just my opinion though to each their own.

[t-8900]

my rule of thumb for that sort of thing is if you wanted that then you should be 100% fine with having him father children by other women too and be as involved with them as he is with the child not his own. I guess that sort of poly relationship isn't a toxic dynamic. But if thats not the case it feels like a "give my all the cake and let me eat it all too while you watch". which is a f'd up mindset to have if i'm being honest.

[fonduegirl]

Ez and I were pretty clear that if he were to become a father of another woman's baby, we'd still be supportive. That's healthy poly.

[fonduegirl]

And the beta male crap is bs.

[t-8900]

beta male crap is not BS. the stigma behind it IS. thats the difference. both sides are toxic on it imho. men who trash betas and women who deny their existence both aren't helping the situation. betas exist, accept them, accept that not everyone is the natural born leader of a pack, and recognize that a beta is still just as valuable because we are a society and species that requires cohesion and if everyone was an alpha we would have nothing but bloodshed on a massive scale constantly. Compliance is a submissive trait, yet it is necessary for the species to succeed.

[fonduegirl]

I'm done with this conversation

[t-8900]

also there is no one set, fit version of either.

You have the Alpha Alphas, the Beta Alphas, the Alpha Betas, and Beta Betas. Not all this other horse shit like gammas, sigmas, and all that. But just the ones i mentioned, yes. When push comes to shove some men won't fight back. Some men will give into other men and women. Alphas can be men or women and they lead the situations. it is what it it is. nothing wrong with it, nothing wrong with guys who are betas. But to deny they exist is actually harmful to them. When people can just accept their nature and everything is normalized it'll be fine. Just like people who denied their homosexuality. How much mental damage do you think that did to them? Just accept things as they are and let us live in a cohesive harmony and live our best lives. lying to ourselves does nothing positive.

[t-8900]

fair enough

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Wow, I go off to do a training course and come back to animal planet.

Ok, we really gotta stop with this alpha/beta mindset. It is toxic as hell. If your whole personality is based around the idea that you exhibit a dominant personality at all times, well, I am sorry but it just shows me that you are emotionally fragile. Someone who is secure with themselves, TRULY secure, wouldn't care about all that.

If a woman cheats on her spouse and he doesn't know, then yes, by the technical definition he would be a cuckold. That's why divorce exists. People throw this word around now for guys who even show the slightest understanding to a woman's point of view and that too is a toxic mindset to have for someone who just isn't being myopic. I am so over the word honestly.

I mean this with all sincerity, it is none of our business how other people run their relationships. Feeling the need to call them beta cucks and whatever other garbage people use is just a defense mechanism in my eyes to hide a person's own insecurities. If the couple have talked about it and are ok with the arrangement, then commend them for having open communication and let them get their freak on however 2 (or more) consenting adults wish to do.

[t-8900]

@Ez-Bri-Z I think you have the wrong idea about my PoV. but out of respect to OP we can take it PMs as per the usual. but dont want to blow up her notifications over it.

[TwinTonyz]

@t-8900 I see polyamory as being non-commital in all directions. One of my exes met up recently to talk about things and suggested I join her and her fiance swinging. It was uncomfortable for me. I don't understand how that's any different that just being with whoever you want. Why even get married or maintain a relationship at that point.

What you described was one-sided though. It reads like she can be with anyone she wants, but he must remain loyal to her. That's behavior I'd view as self loathing and desperate on the man's part, in your example, but would be just the same in a role reversal, respectively.

[t-8900]

@TwinTonyz I think no commitment is dangerous simply because anyone can walk out at anytime and then one is stuck with all the bills, the kids, etc. It's not fair to them. It's better imho to create a small network of swingers to get it out with. That way you stay loyal to each other but if you honestly yearn that variety and everyone is fine with it for once in a while then I think that's just a more stable system. Of course I've read some articles of basically letting people's pandora's boxes open and then it destroys everything anyways.

You really need the right temperament and mindset for that and its not for everyone. However with no fault divorces and divorces so normalized its hard to really see marriage as any sort of a security blanket these days sadly. I'm not for promoting "slavery" of people but there needs to be that level of respect and discipline enforced somehow. My parents went through a really shitty divorce and ruined the lives of my sister and I. I never want that for my kids and I do want kids. The idea of that history repeating itself would absolutely destroy me. I hope that will never happen in my life again. It's something I fear worse than my own mortality because of the grief it caused me. I dont want that for my kids.

[globetrotter22]

“ It isn't much since it's based on evolutionary perspective”

Ahh I have to 100% disagree with you there. I last I checked society isn’t teaching women to chase abusive assholes yet to the contrary too many (not all but way too many) do. Now why is that?

[Lorenz965]

So basically guys who call on the bullshit of narcisistic progressive chicks got it

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Do you care to expand upon that answer more or just want to leave the ambiguity of you being stuck 80 years in the past with your mindset?

[globetrotter22]

@anon1903 it is pathetic if a man dates and marries a woman is pregnant and/or recently given birth to a newborn whose dad is out of the picture. Only exceptions is if she was recently widowed.

In most of those scenarios she made a conscientious decision to spread her legs (most likely without a condom) for some random asshole. But she consensually MADE THAT DECISION. It’s on her. That asshole was sexually appealing to her.

It’s funny how “nice guys” all of the sudden become attractive when women are suffering consequences from the bad decisions they consciously made. And yes a man who plays safety net in those situations is weak. She would of friéndzoned him before she was in trouble. Now she needs his help and it’s bullshit.

[fonduegirl]

You. Are. Proving. Me. Right. Thanks!!!

[globetrotter22]

@anon1903 I’m proving that many women make very warped decisions on who to sleep with vs who to friendzone. Im proving that so called “toxic masculinity” is sexually attractive to women and men who don’t act this way get judged as feminine (and they get friéndzoned).

“Toxic” masculinity would quickly cease to exist if women suddenly stopped sexually rewarding guys who demonstrate those traits. Why can’t you just fucking admit that turns you on? Just admit it.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Its not warped. Its their decision and again, guys who refer to themselves as the nice guys, usually aren't as nice as they think. Toxic masculinity is not a turn on. The confidence they usually have might be enough to get our attention in comparison to the "nice guys" who feel entitled that they should be the ones to get a woman in comparison to another guy. Its just toxic masculinity of another form.

Those nice guys are not entitled to a damn thing. These nice guys invent things like "the friendzone" to put blame on women for not selecting them and then make up all these reasons why women never give them a chance.

It's simple. She isn't interested. You move on and find one who is.

[t-8900]

@Ez-Bri-Z I think he was saying like a guy she knew liked her and she would sideline until she was with all the other guys and then had an oopsie and just picked him up after the fact. and that sadly does happen sometimes...

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Doesn't matter the reason. He needs to have more respect for himself to not be a fall back plan of thats the actual situation. What ends up happening though isn't that. Its two guys show interest in a girl and both feel entitled to her because of different reasons. The nice guy thinks he can say a few nice things and load her down with gifts and that's enough, but honestly, for me at least, thats no better than the guy who expects sex after buying her dinner.

I want someone with a personality. Someone who is going to keep me interested not flatter me long enough to have sex and then slip back on their niceties. This is why the "bad boy" seems more enticing. He is interesting. Not because of a toxic personality, but because he is sure of himself and that confidence in himself is what help makes us confident he knows what he is doing.

It's not say start acting like a dick. Just stop relying on giving all your money and compliments to a pretty face. All you end up with then is the kind of girls who is going to leach that from you until you become bitter (think egirls/camgirls who get paid to pretend you are their favorite person in the world just so you drop more and more money on them). The rest of us are not sex workers and don't like being made to feel that way. Gifts are nice but if that is your only go to, it rings hollow.

You want a strong relationship? Find a good blend of both confidence and kindness.

[t-8900]

@Ez-Bri-Z true and sometimes that guy just needs a good friend or peer to nudge him away from that in the future. I have seen a lot of entitlement. I just talked to OP about this yesterday. A chick demanding a 10K diamond ring as a pre req. to marriage! LMFAO! Or a guy thinking that because he wined and dined you he's entitled to your panties. I get it, I do. I'm not on either side of the argument here. Just that things happen on both sides. its not just guys or girls its individual assholes.

[globetrotter22]

@Ez-Bri-Z mature men including mature and genuine “nice guys” know damn well that attraction isn’t a choice. They nor myself feel “entitled” to jack. We are usually nice for the sake of being nice. We are even “nice” to woman we aren’t attracted to.

Just a few days ago I met a so so looking woman at a profesional singles meet up. She wasn’t ugly but I wasn’t smitten by her either. I talked her up, treated her well and even bought her a glass of wine which she graciously accepted. I did all of this expecting nothing. We did exchange phone numbers. Im debating on following up. But even if I do follow up and she says “no thanks” i won’t be upset. I don’t regret being nice to her.

So I want to debunk that fucking bullshit myth that “nice guys” all have agendas and want one thing. They actually are just behaving in a way women “say” they want guys to behave. They want an actual connection AND sex. They are usually not pump and dumpers.

No this is a deeper issue of respect. If a pleasant man gives you attention and follow up contacts you it’s obvious he wants to be more than friends. You can make a respectful choice (and respect is a decision) and communicate that you are not interested before he goes through the effort, time, hope, energy, money and risk of trying to date OR you can decide to be a selfish POS and play dumb. You can play dumb that he just wants to be friends besides everything pointing to the contrary and exploit him for your own ends. You made a choice to NOT respect him there. You know what he wants but isn’t convenient for you to pretend otherwise?

[globetrotter22]

On the flip side a “toxic” male can act like a dbag and women are intrigued by the challenge of it. He’s clever and knows how to manipulate. He will push and pull. He will act arrogant, condescending and will usually throw other guys under the bus (who are usually no threat to him) in an effort to look more “alpha”. He’s the type who will throw out an asshole comment at someone at then pull back like “oh I am just kidding”.

Many women will fall prey to this. But again attraction is not a choice but respect including SELF respect is. Just because the female feels intrigued and attracted to the “toxic masculinity” (which she confused for real masculinity) she can respect herself and realize he’s no good. But many women go through with it anyway which perpetuates this vicious cycle.

I will say it once and I will say it again this so called “toxic masculinity” would quickly end if women stopped sexually rewarding these so called “bad boys”. But we both know that will never happen.

But instead of berating men into not indulging in “toxic masculinity” how about you berate women FIRST because they are ones who enable it.

[globetrotter22]

And quit using that bullshit euphemism “bad boys”. That’s just a toxic male you make excuses for because he knows how to manipulate your emotions. Your not going to be the one that “breaks him”. If he’s aggressive to other people don’t pretend he won’t one day turn it on you. Once your feminine charms wear off and he gets bored he can and will turn it on you. Don’t come crying to society when that day comes. The writing was on the wall but you just didn’t want to see it.

Instead focus on the gentlemen. He often gets confused with the nice guy but he is more mature and has a few rougher edges. He doesn’t expect sex for being nice to girls but if he doesn’t get respect he can and will call you out no it. He has a breaking point. He may have a long fuse and be slow to anger. But it’s still a fuse and he will be nice until he’s not if you push him far enough.

I called out and cut off a few bitches in the last few years. I gave them an honest chance but once I concluded they were in fact conceited bitches i slammed the door on them and never looked back.

[Jaysonava]

Smoke and mirrors!

It is deliberate way to train people to pose no threat to established hierarchies!

Men are descended from hunters and have the potential to be extremely violent and extremely scary. Just look at the history of hordes of men charging territories with guns and swords.

Academia and media are institutions that are in place to uphold hierarchy the privileges of the the people at the top.

Academia and media does NOT necessarily deliberately discourage male aggression, it is an automatic defense mechanism. It is a 'system' and it is in the nature of the system to preserve itself.

So because male aggression is a threat, every day, to media and and academic institutions. They have historically been subjects of violent purges.

Just having angry men exist is a threat to the these institutions! Universities like Oxford and Cambridge have long been hot beds for protests and riots led by extremists. Largely angry men! The puritans of England came out of universities! And so did veitnam protests and revolutionary movements in Romania and Tsarist Russia!

The same with media outlets!

So the natural behaviour of these institutions and their collaborators is to try to protect themselves and secure themselves by nullifying the threat of angry men and angry mobs.
So they say 'toxic masculinity' cause they are running scared of men.
They have developed over time a dislike for their irritable and idealistic undergraduates who have the power to force people to lose their jobs and incomes and even start revolts.

At the same time these people pay to be there so...

[MJtheCoach]

If this horseshit of Masculinity is talk shit where do feminism get the power from to be able to bogeyman for example in Canada if you talk or challenge a feminist you get prosecuted who do they show up to arrest the guy who think they sent bunch of feminist twist your arm no it’s men!


You guys or anybody that claims masculine is toxins? learned nothing from Sweden becoming the capital rape of the world which is a number one most feminist nation in the world!


Masculinity is nature part of a man it’s very natural for men to act like masculine you get rid of that they will not protect kids your mothers random girls and I will actually watch them suffer I’ll give you an example 2 months ago a girl got raped in New York subway everybody watched no one did anything no one called 911 another example on myself been told is toxic masculinity bullshit so I became angry remember I was on vacation a girl fun of me fell if we was the old me I would’ve picked her up or protector her you know what I did I walked back and she fell and hit her head!

[Subarugirl]

Masculinity is not toxic however toxic masculinity and masculinity are not synonymous

[FlyMulatto]

I think the problem is there isn’t enough masculinity in men now days. Anyone can be toxic male or female, there’s no such thing as a male being too masculine, however it’s good for a man to have a good balance of some feminine energy as well. We’re men we are built to be born leaders, and providers. The problem with the world is men haters, I don’t know if y’all have daddy issues or what. Im convinced y’all would try to castrate us if y’all could. A lot of women think they can do everything by themselves without a man, raise a son for example, and exclude that son from having a relationship with their father the result a beta or omega male. Not to mention society now days is pussified and super sensitive in general. Men learn to be men from other men/Alphas “iron sharpens iron”. The result of children that grow up in fatherless homes really shows in prison, college/high school drop out statics, etc etc…Men were put here on earth to rule, women were put here to nurture. The sooner you except it the better your life will be. It’s not easy being a male into today’s age with all of you men haters. Not every man is bad. Maybe you should learn to love, and respect some men more then you wouldn’t have to hate us so much that’s probably why so many men struggle with mental health. Y’all have been fucking shit up since the beginning of time look at the story of “Adam and Eve” Eve put the pussy on Adam and tricked him into eating the Apple. Men are protectors, leaders, and providers, y’all are good at stuff too like nurturing, help guiding us, pushing out babies, bleeding on things, crying…etc 😂 I’m just kidding….. sort of 😅but I’ll say that women are just as important we just play two different roles, because without a strong woman, a man is handicapped ♿️ he lacks stability.

[Nomoturtle]

Smoke and mirrors. It's the contemporary batch of whiny authoritarians, not much different in demeanour from the puritanical Christians. They're problematising everything, even normal behaviour, not just "toxic masculinity".

But for men specifically, it comes down to basically viewed as defective women. Heck, some boys in school are put on meds because they apparently have 'ADHD' or other issues when they're actually just a damn boy.
It's based on the idea of the effective abolition of gender, tabula rasa, and the denial of difference between the sexes, all in service of the ideal of absolute equality. Lysenkoism 2.0.

[MuddyMole]

Of course it's a common problem.
I'm trying to think what the female equivalent (ie. toxic femininity) would entail, and I guess it would be things like over-reliance on others (partners and parents) for financial and practical support, lack of ambition, pressure to be a mother and primary caregiver - so while those issues obviously still exist, the feminist movement has made a lot more headway in tackling them. That's not really surprising, since they've been working on it since the '60s, whereas toxic masculinity has only fairly recently been recognized as a problem.

[NathanDavis]

in my personal experience, my life, my people... friends, family, relatives, workplace, schools, long etcétera... toxic masculinity has not been a thing ever

not as it is portrayed nowadays, there's no present systematic "toxic masculinity" making all men insensitive douchebags

sure, there are men who indeed are insensitive douchebags and a few are way way stupid, even criminal but those are few... and for that matter, there as many women like them, so no, is not thing about being "masculine and toxic"

it's not about genders.. is just that some (and fewer in numbers when all accounted) people are really stupid people and that's it

but again, this is just my personal experience and the people I live and have lived with

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Think of toxic masculinity in this way and see if it influences your decision:

Toxic masculinity is not necessarily a guy being a douchebag to women. Toxic masculinity can be a father telling his son to suck it up and be a man instead of crying when he is scared or hurt while a daughter is consoled when exhibiting the same behavior. That son starts to learn to repress his feelings over time and shoves everything down until getting to a point it finally snaps and either he lashes out in anger at people or ends up committing suicide over his depression. Had that son be taught to express emotions instead of repressing them, he might have a better shot of getting help instead of rejecting efforts to help him cope with issues.

Toxic masculinity can also be things like excusing sexual assault or making unwanted advances, sure, but also when experiencing interactions between other males. Bullying for example being a prime one. The idea that "maybe it will toughen up that weaker kid some" being probably some of the worst of it.

Now, having those two examples, would you say it still exists? For the record, women can be just as guilty of committing it too. There are definitely those moms who think that the method of parenting I described above makes their son "a real man", when all it is doing is making them an incomplete one.

A man can be brave, noble, a protector, a provider, a strong leader and all the typical male attributes everyone expects and still be ok at expressing feelings and knowing that condoning bullying is just toxic.

[NathanDavis]

@Ez-Bri-Z I think I was careful with my choice of words...

toxic masculinity as a systematic presence was not condoned in my life experience, because that is how it is portrayed for example... the Gillette commercial

in which all parents are pretty much the same, and then they, all men bear ALL the guilt, and well women, are not part of the issue... it is "just us, men and our manly ways" this is the message they portray and this is the message that is all a lie

the examples that you mentioned yes... those are particular cases, particular cases do exist of course, and I also mentioned it on my comment

now, since my comment was about my experience in life, yes I could bring up many examples from my own house, the houses of my relatives, my street... my school, my cities, my workplaces and more... about how nor men nor women... would condone bullying as a "manly" thing

and of course I can come up with dozens over dozens of examples in which a lot of males, both adult and children, teens did cry, expressed their emotions and showed vulnerabilities in public for many reasons... and this was just okay, it was fine... it is even normal... the real life I've lived is not like a Gillette commercial at all

[Ez-Bri-Z]

That's fair. I guess my own experiences were different. Males were definitely treated differently than females by my dad especially.

My grandfather (the Mexican side of my family) was different in some ways. Women were still expected to serve the men, but also expected to take care of themselves and to suck it up. He would bully everyone equally and he didn't want to hear you crying about it. You could try to stand up to him but he wasn't a pushover and worked in the steel mills of PA for years after leaving the army after the war.

[RagnarRedbeard]

I don’t think so. The issue is a lack of masculinity.

Plus the fact that we live in a feminised culture in which what women think is viewed as being more sensible or more correct. After all many boys are raised by single mothers, and even if not they’re taught in schools mainly by female teachers, as in they’re constantly being influenced by women more-so than men.

School shooters have been mentioned for example, and women think that these young guys end up shooting schools because they were never allowed to show their emotions. It has nothing to do with that. When you look at these guys they’re usually not the kinds of guys any normal person would consider to be masculine at all. They’re guys who never had any strong male influence growing up.

A lot of guys who come up with stupid ideas about manhood are that way for the same reason. They’re just confused guys lacking masculine guidance.

[Dargil]

Toxic masculinity is... masculinity. ""Toxic masculinity is a construct by "Karens" (radical feminists) to diminish the qualities of manhood. It's akin to "mansplaining" and manspreading. Although some men retreat into MGTOW, our solution is to not marry these women (you can read them easily). No sex, no children, no cohabitation, and let them curl up at night with their rabbit vibrators. If they think they can do without us, I think they should. There are millions of Latinas and East Asians waiting for the call. (I did this). And they can contribute to a reduction of cultural and racial tensions as well. It's all good.

[globetrotter22]

“Toxic masculinity” exists for Freudian reasons. Most men are driven subconsciously to make decisions that will improve their chances to procreate and women respond to that. Just look at who they generally decide to date vs. reject or sleep with vs. friendzone. A lot of the “toxic” male qualities are subconsciously a turn on to women. If these so called “toxic” males were rejected romantically they would change their behavior real quick.

But we all know that will never happen. Also there is never any mention of “toxic femininity”. Women are definitely not beyond reproach on several issues.

[dudeinohio]

No, of course toxic femininity doesn't exist. The Politically correct squids wouldn't allow that.

[globetrotter22]

@dudeinohio it’s always one sided isn’t it. People don’t want to own that they might be part of the problem.

I swear if women suddenly overnight became less attracted to “bad boys” then domestic violence rates would be cut in half. If you pet a snake then don’t be surprised when it bites.

[dudeinohio]

I agree 100%

[Friendlybro79]

I definitely feel like there's a joke here if I mansplain my opinion on toxic masculinity lol. That said, people are jerks with how they behave towards others, and I agree @Kayla45 that anyone can be toxic. Some are men and some are women. I tend to lean this way with just about every question here when people ask about behaviors of people that are being designated into a group. Whether it be sex, political, religion, etc. Some people suck and being people no matter what group they are stuffed into.

[doopayo]

Yes. My grandma was abused by her husband which is the reason why she ended up moving to America. She lived in a small island country that didn’t have much access to domestic abuse resources so saving up money and fleeing was her only way.


This is the reality for so many women, my grandma was lucky she could even escape. Other women are financially dependent on their spouse and stuck in their situation

[Hallo626262]

Lol as if men don't get abused

[doopayo]

@Hallo62626 I’m this close to blocking you for trolling

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Yay more anecdotes.

And also "I’m this close to blocking you for trolling" <-- I know you're not talking to me but is that suppose to be a threat? That would be more of a self solving problem at least for me.

[doopayo]

It’s not a threat, I’m just saying I’m close to blocking the dude because he continues to reply rudely to all my posts and comments.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Then there's no point warning anyone if that's not really a threat. But still I find it hilarious

[Hallo626262]

@doopayo don't get what your problem is.

[leosp5000]

Many women are toxic towards men

[doopayo]

@leosp5000 never said men they weren’t, dumbass

[TruthBringer]

Sad to hear that your grandma got abused byy her husband. At the same time, what does that have to do with toxic masculinity? Isn't that just being a bad person? Because often those who claim toxic masculinity existing refuse the idea of toxic femininity existing. So with that being said, if a man got absued by his wife, does that mean she has toxic femininity? If not, then why would your grandma's abusive husband have "toxic masculinity"?

[Anonymous]

Here you go

[TruthBringer]

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity. The same people who say toxic masculinity existing claim there is no such thing as toxic femininity. This goes to show it's almost always are the misandrists who throw this around.

"Toxic masculinity is invented by women nobody wants to fuck to describe the men they do want to fuck".

https://www.youtube.com/embed/PlpFMTx4FHs

[Anonymous]

Toxic behavior is not a gendered thing. Both men and women do it. Ascribing it to masculinity is just a feminist tactic to shame men and divide the sexes. That's just what feminists do.

So called "mansplaining" is another example. Feminists use the term to describe a behavior that both men and women do, but feminists created the term "mansplaining" to paint men as assholes and women as victims. It's toxic and divisive and pits men and women against each other, which is exactly what feminists want.

The irony in all of this is that feminists themselves are some of the most prolific examples of the behaviors they describe as "toxic masculinity" and "mansplaining".

[worldscolide]

ridiculous idiotic feminist bullshit.. If toxic masculinity exists, so must toxic femininity, But feminists refuse this citing nothing feminine can be bad. All the term ammounts to is shaming men for doing things that are typically male.

Here is a funny stat for you.. Lesbian couple domestic violence is twice that of hetro couples, and 4 times that of gay couples.. But feminists are not ready to address that conversation yet. They are too busy pushing the narrative man=bad.

[Oigit]

It's past time to be honest. Humanity can be toxic. We love to point the finger at one group and put our group on a pedistal. We love acting as our group does engage in the same behavior despite knowing that we are lying to ourselves. We are all human before we are anything. Denying it is an outright lie. So take the blinders off, stop lying to ourselves and accept the harsh realities that come with doing so.

[dudeinohio]

"Toxic Masculinity" is a term the squids invented to beat down men who dare to be masculine. As in every politically correct subject, it is taken to an extreme.

Women complain men today aren't "manly enough"

This question is a clear example of why men avoid being manly.

[Subarugirl]

Toxic masculinity isn’t the same as masculinity, they aren’t synonymous

[Subarugirl]

No one is calling men toxic. Toxic masculinity is a set of attitudes and ways of behaving stereotypically associated with or expected of men, regarded as having a negative impact on men and on society as a whole. And yes it is extremely prominent and perpetuated by men women and media at large.

[CamembertAnus]

You should visit the Guardian's news site. They call men toxic several times a week.

[leosp5000]

Feminists keep calling men toxic 24/7

[Baredog69]

Why is it toxic to be masculine in the first place? If it weren't for masculinity we wouldn't have the very country we're living in today. I don't think very many Sissy boys would have picked up weapons and fought for the revolution, I'm just sayin. Hard to fight when you're hiding behind Mommy.

[Guanfei]

Toxic masculinity is just a box where feminists throw everything they can in, so they can control men better. Anything that isn't in favor of the feminists is labelled as toxic masculinity, and until they finally get it banned or shamed, they won't stop crying in the medias.

[Exterminatore]

Smoke and mirrors. This is one more opportunity the left is taking to shame and bash men. They even did an anti bullying Gillette commercial about toxic masculinity. People, bullying is toxic period. Men don’t have the market share in the bullying industry. There’s plenty of female bullies.


It’s reached the point now where nearly every masculine trait is being labeled toxic.


I encourage all of you to not buy Gillette products for that little stunt.

[bamesjond0069]

Usually if someone talks about toxic masculinity they mean ALL masculinity. Actual toxic masculinity is femininity. Ie if a woman has an emotional outburst she might cry this is normal for women. However men when they have emotional outbursts its more often violent because men have testosterone. This is why men are supposed to embrace masculine behaviors such as stoicism or great emotional control as one example.

[Mossberg500]

We love being masculine. The toxicity the leftists feel is truly palpable. The truth is you fear men taking all their power back, and there's nothing you can do if they decide to do so. I personally am done with equal rights for women entirely. They had it and they created "clown world" with it. Or at least were a significant factor.

[Bogoboj]

Again with this crap! People just keep cummin up with ways too avoid there OWN responsibilities for what they have done and blame what they have done on some greater then them power! Why for fu*k sake have women attached themselves on to this? This is only a detrimental to women and not beneficial. Just keep giving people excuses for being horrible!

[boxxie2002]

No, I feel that man call other men out much more now days when they use terms or actions that people class as toxic masculinity.

There will always be those who are that way inclined, as there are men who are overly effeminate.

It is definitely a buzz word some groups or agendas like to throw around

[Julielamar2]

I don't know what toxic masculinity means. I know toxic behaviors in both men and women, and it has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity but just human nature.

[kyleelyn199723]

If toxic masculinity wasn’t a thing, majority of our serial killers and school shooters would be of mixed gender. No coincidence that majority are male.

[PuNishant]

Well man kill more man then women. Check history.
Some of us thirsty of blood and some of us got to defend what we love.
We don't think everyone will be same.

[kyleelyn199723]

@PuNishant toxic masculinity is literally men depriving themselves of basic emotions because they are told they are too weak if they express those emotions. Serial killers/ school shooters are a result of toxic masculinity

[PuNishant]

1970- 2000 was the golden era of These serial killers. Most of these serial killer was raised during war time and they had daddies issues.
This might be an example of toxic masculinity

I think when she said morden era she was talking about current time

[Hallo626262]

Uhm you notice that school shooters are a new occurance and a inevitable outcome of the feminist education system. Men are getting extremely disadvantaged in society. Then women cry about the outcomes and still want more special treatment.

[Hallo626262]

It's no coincidence men don't get treated as well as women. You don't know that? Crazy. It's honestly disgusting how you act i have no sympathy for women anymore.

[Hallo626262]

Its crazy that you don't even understand action and reaction. Crazy. Wtf.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Hallo626262 school shootings don't happen because of feminism.
Ever heard of Elliot Rodger? He wanted sex. He didn't had it. So he shot a bunch of people. What about this is feminism?
It is however like she was describing a result of men believing they have to be a certain way. When they don't fit that role, they freak out. Don't seek help, in fact they isolate themselves and it ends in tragedy.

[PuNishant]

I don't think any sane person will blame feminist for school shooting. I will blame 2nd amendment.
It's easy to get mad in current society where everything is divided. And it's more easy to get gun and kill innocent.

[David_Kek]

Are you aware the majority of people who kill small children are women?

[PuNishant]

And most of time it's the guy who don't want to take responsibility of kid

[Hallo626262]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 feminism promotes exactly that. Not sure what you don't understand here.

[Hallo626262]

@PuNishant no pretty much every sane person does. It's a obvious thing. Wtf

[kyleelyn199723]

@Hallo626262 school shootings have nothing to do with women directly. They have to do with men not being able to express their traumas of possible abuse/bullying. They have no outlet of receiving help and feel like they don’t so they develop aggressive tendencies. You sound arrogant and just want to blame women for actual issues

[globetrotter22]

@kyleelyn199723 check the profiles on these school shooters and serial killers. Most of them were misfits to begin with and had deep psychological issues. Of course that’s no excuse for the heinous crimes they committed. But what’s really going is we live in a “one up” culture. These guys are constantly seeing images (social media, movies, TV) of people who are happier than them. They are seeing better looking guys with attractive girlfriends, people with more money, people with popularity, just happier people in general.

Also boys are being raised in a feminized education system where they are not allowed to rough house and supposed to kiss girl’s asses. They are being taught how to be supposedly be a man by WOMEN. They will get harshly disciplined, berated and even medicated if they are just being boys.

Anyway just being a man doesn’t mean everything will magically work out for you in life. Men are gain respect though AGENCY i. e. what they do. They aren’t special just for existing. This especially true when it comes to dating. Men are expected to make something happen.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Globetrotter22 I disagree. School shooters I’ve researched plus serial killers have active fathers. “Most were misfits to begin with” so I’m just going to say this. I’ve been a misfit my whole life even though I don’t look like it. Being a misfit gets lonely and when you add abusive parents into the scenario I can see how violence can come into play. So it feels like you have no one and then on top of that you have people at school bullying you. These men feel like they have no outlet and they are most likely in means where they feel like they can’t see a therapist. They do rough house and they do more than just that. They usually are into guns , practice guns and even kill animals beforehand.

[globetrotter22]

@kyleelyn199723 I agree with the no outlet part. I was a misfit but i got involved heavily in sports and fitness. That was my outlet.

But still these young men are getting constant reminders by society that they are missing out. That’s not good for self esteem. Compound that with other issues and then you have a “toxic” brew but that doesn’t mean it’s “toxic” masculinity.

[kyleelyn199723]

@globetrotter22 just because you thought of healthier ways , doesn’t mean everyone does. But it does mean toxic masculinity in a way because it’s men suppressing their feelings because society tells them to “man up” from traumas. I feel like men have mixed feelings about toxic masculinity because not all guys experience or feel it. I’m happy as hell that I got out of my somewhat destructive few years and I am in a better place now myself

[globetrotter22]

@kyleelyn199723 I am a born sensitive guy who used to wear my emotions on my sleeve. When I was younger this harmed romance potential with women 9 out of 10 times. What was their default response to that behavior: almost always friendzone. Even grown ass women in their 30s still do this shit.

However I learned to self discipline myself to be more stoic in my late 20s and it was amazing how women responding differently. But it takes me more effort and self control to be that way vs. the average guy.

But quit I mean fucking quit encouraging men to become something women truly don’t want. Albeit very special circumstances women do romantically NOT like men who cry. They do romantically NOT like guys who share their feelings. They do NOT like sensitive. Don’t tell me otherwise because talk is cheap. All you have to do is take a look around to see what women usually go home with vs who they friendzone and you see the ugly truth.

My romance life in my teens and early 20s was horrible given that I was sensitive. Thankfully I’m tall and athletic so that got me some action but still it was a struggle.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Globetrotter22 I disagree again. I openly let my man cry. I’m his circle of comfort and he’s mine. Not every woman wants a man that is emotionless. Most women don’t. Why on earth would a woman want a romantic guy but also want a guy that has zero feelings? That makes no sense. I know they’re girls out there that will use a man’s emotions against him, but many others of us would never ever do that. Your romance life in your 20s was probably bad because lack of confidence. I think you are mixing sensitive with lack of confidence. Notice how you said tall and athletic. You didn’t specify anything about emotion. You specified things that make you more confident as a person

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Hallo626262 feminism incentives men to search for help and to be free of social stereotypes. That would avoid the shootings

[Lorenz965]

And the fact that men are on average 20 kg heavier, much stronger and produce much more testosterone than women has nothing to do with them being more capable of killing someone...

This people and their cultural reductionism

[David_Kek]

How do i turn off the notifications for this post? I'm genuinely sick of listening to you people and your nonsense.

[PuNishant]

Me too
😂

[Hallo626262]

@kyleelyn199723 i am no blaming women i said feminism. Obviously there was lots of good feminism too.

[Hallo626262]

@kyleelyn199723 i don't get why women don't think they are part of society and only men responsible for everything. So childish.

[Hallo626262]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 lol no it doesn't feminist groups actively speak against and successfully shut down help centers for men. Feminists are the reason why men can't legally get raped in the UK. You live in a fantasy world.

[Hallo626262]

@Lorenz965 testosterone doesn't increase aggressiveness go away with your bro science.

[Hallo626262]

@David_Kek ok kek

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Hallo626262 That is false. Feminists never were against building more shelters for male domestic victims or make rape possible against a man by a woman.
Note that the law that makes legally impossible for women to rape men, also makes impossible for women to rape other women. Just a note people forget to mention. Another is that around 70% of the parliament are men. Blame them not feminists.

Think about it logically... Even before feminism was a thing did we had the law that you want? Did you had the shelters that you wanted? No. Why? In both cases is because men are supposed to be stronger and so can never be victims of women. This is toxic masculinity at work not feminism!

[Lorenz965]

@Hallo626262 www.researchgate.net/.../7939681_Testosterone_and_aggressiveness

[Lorenz965]

@Hallo626262 snelab.nipissingu.ca/.../...Bird-et-al-chapter.pdf

[Lorenz965]

@Hallo626262 Bro science... right... Dunning Kruger much bro?

[kyleelyn199723]

@Hallo626262 I’m not sure why you are trying to only blame women for toxic masculinity when they’re two genders. I said abusive parents which can be a mother or a father. I said bullying which isn’t limited to one gender

[Exterminatore]

Since when is murder a strictly masculine trait?

[Hallo626262]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 lol that's not debateable it's a fact. You're just not informed at all.

[Hallo626262]

@Lorenz965 people who don't know anything about the subject like you shouldn't link things they don't understand. Testosterone is proven to not increase aggressiveness in human studies. I won't argue with you about facts.

[Hallo626262]

@kyleelyn199723 i guess you're just too dumb.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Hallo626262 nice deflection. Feel free to answer my last point if you can.
Why even before feminism we didn't had the things you say we don't after feminism?

[Hallo626262]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 we didn't have school shootings before feminism.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Hallo626262 You also didn't have shcool shooting before wifi was invented. Does it mean wifi is to blame?
Feminism existed for a long time before school shootings became so common.

And what about a law that makes possible for women to rape men in the eyes of the law? And men shelters? Why didn't you had that before feminism?

[Hallo626262]

@This_Is_My_Opinion8 because feminism changed the education system wifi didn't.

The second point is ridiculous feminism has nothing to do with progression. Femists are the reason why some men shelters don't exist. That's a fact.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

@Hallo626262 education system has nothing to do with school shooting. They didn't woke up one day feeling like kiling people because their tests were hard.
Also in what way feminism changed the school system?

No it really isn't. Reason more men shelters don't exist is because men are not seen by society as victims as much women are. That is not feminism, that is sexism. Sexism that feminism fights.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Halo626262 imagine calling someone dumb because they don’t agree with your OPINION. Fuck off my comment 🤡

[kyleelyn199723]

@Exterminatore never said it’s just a masculine trait. It’s not a masculine trait, but statically they’re more men serial killers and school shooters. That’s all facts.

[Exterminatore]

@kyleenlyn

Thank you for correcting me. I must have misread.

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity. I will not debate this with you. there's simply evil bad behavior. It would be true to say either gender is more predisposed towards certain types of bad behavior, but there is no such thing as toxic masculinity.

This is just one more term to target the favorite scapegoats of leftists: straight white men.

If toxic masculinity were a thing then by nature of rationality there must be toxic femininity. How come this is never discussed? Oh, that’s right because women are the keepers of all that’s good and pure and holy and right and men are evil and stupid and inept and pigs. This is the message I keep hearing. No wonder disturbed young men shoot up schools. Should we expect anything less from the evil male gender?

[kyleelyn199723]

@Extrwemimatore that’s your OPINION. 😉 opinions are opinions. What you said has no relevance to my point.

[kyleelyn199723]

Also “no wonder men are school shooters” so you just excused school shooters” ? What a disturbing comment made.

[globetrotter22]

There is no excuse for school shooters. But there is a much deeper question going on. Why do men have such higher suicide rates, issues with domestic violence and occasionally going psycho?

Some of these guys would of be screwed up in any time era. But I bet you million bucks that more than 3 quarters of them would of turned out better 50 years ago. Probably gotten married and started a family.

Nowadays dating is absolute shit show for most guys and radical feminism is a MAJOR contributing factor to screwing everybody up. It’s not the only factor. Men created technology which has exploited and sexualized female bodies. But still radical feminism has confused both men and women.

[Exterminatore]

@globetrotter22

I think your exactly right and agree with everything you said. Some of this is largely in part due to living in a gynocentric society.

Our culture is becoming increasingly toxic and unhealthy for men. It has become geared towards women and their needs at the expense of men. It is all about setting men up for failure so women can succeed.

Of course none of that has anything to do with her point. She wants to control the narrative.

[This_Is_My_Opinion8]

Dating lives are not going great. So let's shoot a bunch of people. And you blame the movement that tells girls to not be afraid to have sex, instead of blaming the society that tells men they are nothing if they can't get girls?

A big reason for suicide in men is because society tells us to be strong, tough and never seek help. Men have a much higher tendency to isolate themselves to deal with stuff because that's how society deems it's right to deal with things. Of course this doesn't work long term and ends in tragedy.

Feminism tells men to open up more and that they don't need to be hunks to be men. You are pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Exterminatore except women do not need men to live a fulfilled life anymore. Women were more high demanding back in the day, and it’s RARE in this day and age to find a man that actually wants to provide for a woman. So I disagree. We aren’t as demanding anymore.

[PuNishant]

This will never stop

[globetrotter22]

“ Women were more high demanding back in the day”

Okay i think I finally found something we agree on. Finally.

But as for the “women don’t need men anymore”. Unfortunately lots of women have that attitude. From a societal perspective it’s true and easy to feel that way when your young. But I don’t think how much you are self sabotaging yourself in the long run. There will come a day you will regret that attitude.

[kyleelyn199723]

@globetrotter22 I’m self sabotaging? Who said I didn’t need a man? I have one lol. But I know women that have survived their lives without one and they are doing just fine.

[globetrotter22]

@kyleelyn199723 are there are men who have survived without women. But modern feminism has done nothing but drive a further wedge between both genders in the grand scheme of things.

Congrats on having a boyfriend. I’ll reserve judgment on his character. However women have always been more picky than men when it comes to dating. Some criticisms are justified but others are just insanely over the top.

At the end if you believe in “gender equality” you won’t hold someone to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

[kyleelyn199723]

@globetrotter the issue here is, is you are trying to make everything I say personal, when reality is, is there is plenty of women around besides me that live comfortably without your gender. You seem to be offended over that. Who said I believe gender equality? I believe emotional equality. Again, you keep assuming so much, but know very very little.

[kyleelyn199723]

Aside from me** not besides me.

[kyleelyn199723]

And how offensive that you think negatively about my boyfriend because I don’t agree with your opinion. You don’t seem like a kind person. I place all judgement on you.

[globetrotter22]

@kyleelyn199723 You misunderstood what I said. i said i would reserve judgement. That means i don’t know him nor do I know about your relationship so I will NOT judge him.

I say this because a few years ago I was in a relationship with a woman who had very different political views than myself. But in some ways this made things more interesting because we got in very good debates (different then arguments). I learned a new perspective and her vice versa.

But this was back in 2014. From late 2015 and on I observed a radicalized shift in many liberal women. Many of them (not all) think modern day conservative males belong to a neo third reich or some other insane bullshit. Nothing could be further from the truth. Unless the guy is very good looking and/or charming they will cut him off like the plague if they found out he voted for Trump.

So considering you brought up “toxic masculinity” i wonder what kind of man you would date and tolerate or vice versa. Most guys would on here would say “he’s probably a white knight or cuck”. Maybe he is but maybe he isn’t. But I was neither of those types but yet I dated (and really loved) a very liberal woman back in 2014. But she went from moderate to radical later when Trump ran. Broke my heart to be honest. I’m actually more open minded then most people give me credit for.

[kyleelyn199723]

@globetrotter22 sorry for misunderstanding. Me and my man share the same political views and hopefully I make my boyfriends life great because I allow him to be emotional around me. He comes from a very bad family situation and I noticed he has a hard time expressing himself. I don’t want him to fall into the stats of men being violent because they don’t feel loved and also don’t feel like they can’t have the same emotional feelings as women.

[Lorenz965]

@globetrotter22 "people who don't know anything about the subject like you shouldn't link things they don't understand. Testosterone is proven to not increase aggressiveness in human studies. I won't argue with you about facts" ... Bitch... im getting a degree in psychology... Human behaviour is literally my filed of expertise and the facts are right fucking there telling you that Testosterone does correlates with agression wich is not necesarily bad but it does mean than poorly socialized men will be far more likely to kill someone over a fit of rage than a poorly socialized woman (Women tend to go for social violence)

[Exterminatore]

@Lorenz965

I fully agree with you and I think you just made an excellent point.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Lorenz965 thank you so much for coming out of no where and explaining this to these guys 🤦🏻‍♀️

[Hallo626262]

Your idiocy is amazing

[kyleelyn199723]

@Hallo626262 my idiocy? You just got schooled by someone that has a psychology degree.

[Hallo626262]

Who has what deegree? And why exactly should I care about that? Most psychologists are major trash. Everyone knows.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Hallo626262 do you ever admit when you are wrong, or do you just want to keep making yourself look like an arrogant asshole?

[globetrotter22]

@kyleelyn199723 women often confuse “toxic masculinity” with confidence.

And what exactly is it to he “confident” as a man. It’s to be outgoing, assertive, etc. Okay no shit. But being “confident” as man in dating is also approaching women, getting numbers, setting up dates, going for a kiss and last but least making a move for the finale. Women EXPECT men do this.

But what has happened in the last few years? Feminism has been demonizing men for decades. But they really upped the ante with #metoo. How do you expect men to be confident with women while risking being called a creep or in the worst case scenario being falsely accused.

Maybe that sounds like an oversimplification but it isn’t. Women consciously say they want men to behave in one way but subconsciously (where mating decisions are made) they want something else.

Now is this all women? Hell no. But honestly most women do not truly understand nor even care to try to see the position men are generally in. The only time they care if there is something in it for them (e. g. they already have a crush on the guy). But men are expected to be respectful to all women (whether we are attracted to them or not) but vice versa sure as hell isn’t true

[kyleelyn199723]

@globetrotter22 someone with a psychology degree just corrected you and you are still rambling. Why on earth do people continue to argue nonsense after being corrected. Jesus Christ

[Exterminatore]

Kyleelyn

I’m not sure why you’re so happy about Lorentz comments. They don’t prove toxic masculinity is even a thing.

There are bad people period. Being toxic is not a sole trait belonging to the male gender. The term is deliberately used to attack masculine characteristics. Like Gillette’s toxic masculinity aimed at bullying. Bullying is not a male trait. There are plenty of female bullies. How come toxic femininity isn’t a term…oh that’s right women are the keepers of all that is pure and just and good and right in the world and could never ever be toxic. That’s the domain of men only.

In a time where equality is a buzz word why are we not talking about bad feminine behavior? Because the truth is the term toxic masculinity is complete garbage. It is a term used to link bad behaviors to men. It’s utter nonsense.

Also, Lorentz said he was GETTING a psychology degree, not had one.

He was quite correct in this statements. His statements don’t back yours up at all. You act as if something he said helped prove your over all point. He did not.

The bottom line is there are evil people. Men will be more likely to act in evil ways differently from how women typically will. So how about we drop the term toxic masculinity and just say poorly behaved people. Is there really a need to differentiate how the sexes engage in evil? The toxic behavior women engage in is no less destructive or dangerous then the ones men engage in. How many men are jailed on false rape charges? How many have been fired on false sex harassment charges? How many are slapped by a women and punch her lights out with one shot as a natural instinct and have to go to jail for it? How many have lied about being on the pill and made men fathers against their will? If you’re going to talk about badly behaved males, be sure to exhibit equality and call the gals out on their piss poor behavior too and be sure to admit toxic femininity is a thing if you think toxic masculinity is a thing.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Extrerminatore because a person with a degree will forever know more on this topic than any random people on GAG. You guys are just preaching dumb opinions at this point. Idc about the nonsense anymore. Stop rambling on a comment that was made a great time ago.

[Exterminatore]

@kyleelyn

Ahhh. More BS. Guy has a degree so he’s smarter than you Exterminatore. You lack ability to reason and be objective without a degree. Stfu with that babble.

You could not even objectively debate my points. You could not deconstruct them piece by piece.

Pay close attention gents. This is when you have won the argument with a female. When they do this or cuss you out and scream and throw a fit It means they’re out of ammo and their game is week and they know it and they’re trying to save face because they’re too arrogant to admit you got a point.

Again…the man said he’s getting a degree in psychology not that he has one. You’re just as bad as libtards pointing to some dude who made up CTR and being all “he’s got a doctorate so certainly he can’t be wrong.” Guess what? Imma use that same stupid logic and throw it in your arrogant face. I’m a male and your not, so you’re not qualified to talk about maleness or male issues or male behavior.

Go back to slip and fall school.

[kyleelyn199723]

@Exterminatore would you rather go to a doctor that has a degree or a person that claims to be a doctor with no degree? One more reply from you and you are blocked.

[Exterminatore]

Kyleelyn

Uh ah. I don’t do ultimatums. I will say to you whatever I please and embarrass and make a fool of you as I desire. You may block me but as soon as I send this I’ll be blocking you. You don’t give me ultimatums. You don’t threaten me regardless of how insignificant.

You don’t get to control your feminazi narrative and promote it over truth and silence opposers. That’s exactly what you’re doing.

Ever heard of an educated idiot? The world is full of them. I’m sure Top Nazi officials who earned degrees in Nazi indoctrinated schools loved to call opposers uneducated. The quality of one’s education is only as good as the degrees of truth and lies it teaches.

Are you implying one must have a degree to be smart and one possessing a degree is never mislead?

Now block me.

[kyleelyn199723]

Blocked. Goodbye. Not tuning into your nonsense anymore

[Hallo626262]

@kyleelyn199723 wtf are you even talking about? You need help.

[Hallo626262]

@Lorenz965 testosterone does not increase aggressiveness. Actually men with too low of testosterone have higher aggressiveness and men with hormon imbalances. I don't care about your cute psychology degree.

[Lorenz965]

@Exterminatore To be clear, when it came to murder i was just quoting the data and mainstream evolutionary psychology but i do agree to the fact that "Toxic Masculinity" is largely a buzzword that is poorly defined and mostly used by activists. It is not the main factor in murder and never has been.

[kyleelyn199723]

Halo626262 you are now blocked also

[tytyN503]

It's hard sometime to have a prospective or to look at it from both sides. My opinion is if you have one person trying and the other refusing to try or unwilling to compromise or talk about the issue at hand the. It's obvious who the toxic one is. Two wrongs don't make it right

[Friendlybro79]

@tytyN503 remember when this was called being stubborn or thick headed lol

[Astayuno]

It is better if we split the world into 2 parts. For man and one for a woman. This way a man can live freely. What ever a man does is a crime nowadays. And most of the women just enjoy athis show.

[Floppy2112]

It's a bunch of bullshit. It's hardcore feminist talking points made mainstream by an activist media. It's an unfalsifiable argument. And by default, arguments that cannot be falsified are not real arguments.

[Toldol2]

We live in a very demanding society. And from childhood to grown ups we barely have Time to take care of ourselves and our personal needs. It s not easy to be keep a perfect soul

[t-8900]

Toxicity is toxicity, it is genderless. You just have good and horrible people. Dont associate with the latter.

[TruthBringer]

Precisely. Funny how the ones who claim toxic masculinity existing either deny the existence of toxic femininity or try not to deviate away with all means necessary. Toxic masculinity is nothing but a flawed buzterm with the sole purpose to patronize men. I invite you to watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlpFMTx4FHs

[t-8900]

Like basically you can throw aspects of gender into a toxic conversation but it all stems from just toxic people. And like a true racist or sexist it's the ones crying wolf the loudest that are the worst of what they claim to hate.

[TruthBringer]

@t-8900 Very well said!

[Anonymous]

Yes. If you ask someone who preaches about toxic masculinity, how non-toxic masculinity should look like, you don't get any answer or in best case ridiculous one with lot of contradictions.
It's a term developed to divide society and to dehumanize virtual enemies.

[bean2k21]

It's always been a problem. Ancient Sparta was the worst form of male discrimination on Earth. If you looked like you were a poet growing up, you weren't likely to even live.

[Exterminatore]

Not true. Greek warriors studied poetry.

They had a eugenics program to weed out deformed, and sickly infants. Yes, this is pure evil. Has nothing to do with males or toxic manhood. It was practical. Evil but particle. Their culture was a warrior culture and they wanted only the strongest to carry on their genes. As for poetry it was studied in the egogi along with all forms of warfare.

[HighValue]

Single mothers raising kids badly is the main problem. Too many of them are terrible parents and for many it is their own fault that they are single mothers.

[thian2021]

I let my 19 year old brother shave my pussy. I know that's not natural, but it's a great turn on for me. I sometimes masterbate in front of him. We haven't sex though. What is your opinion on this topic?

[BCRanger10]

As with feminism, I'm not so sure that the people talking about it the most have a consistent definition.

[Slayerrrrrrr]

Rightttt... let's make men more feminine... get over yourself, love.

[Cheechee4me]

I think a lot of people are toxic because of entitlement. It does seem like more men online are displaying it though.

[Anonymous]

For the most part it sounds like made up bs to me to be honest. Terms that are very poorly defined (as this one is) are functionally useless. Rather than using a made up word, just say precisely what the fuck you're talking about.

[FinalFantasyBro]

I personally don't consider it a real issue like you stated both genders can be assholes towards each other.

[disgustingweebtrash]

Toxic masculinity is often a meme feminists push because they dont really want to engage in social issues concerning men but brush it off as "omg men are the worst"

[andreasderjuengere]

There are people we get along with; with others we don't.
There's nothing more to it.

[Strightwhitrepub]

Just another obstacle for men to navigate and women to critique a Man with. Also trying to feminize men

[Anonymous]

Toxic masculinity is a term used to demonize masculinity. Proponents of that phrase might say otherwise but they cannot say one positive masculine trait that is unique to men and not also shared with women.

[Sillyhuman99]

To be a man and be what your nature intended you to act like... Is not toxic.. if you think it's toxic for a male to act masculine.. then it's toxic for a woman to act feminine.. toxic feminity

[Sillyhuman99]

Trust me... If we all lived alone and never saw another human in our life... Males would still be as masculine as they are... It's nothing to do with society setting a "typical male behaviour" that we must follow... We act how we wanna act.. and that happens to be masculine.. it's in our nature

[Subarugirl]

Masculinity isn’t toxic, toxic masculinity however is extremely damaging

[Sillyhuman99]

@Subarugirl What exactly is that tho, is it jus a made up word by feminists who hate men?
I've never actually seen any man acting "toxicly masculine" in real life.. and I've been out a lot...

[Sillyhuman99]

Just normally masculine

[Sillyhuman99]

If you're talking about abusive boyfriends.. they don't count as men... They're little kids

[MountAverage]

Once you understand what it means, it becomes very obvious how prevalent it is in society.

[Manuel2]

I feel it is women who have a case of toxic masculinity. They seem want what we have but not share what they hsve

[JRC1611]

Toxic masculinity, toxic femininity, anything toxic is bad, no matter the sex

[grega239]

Its a made up term by feminists to try to shame men.

[leosp5000]

Thats the truth

[Friendlybro79]

@leosp5000 @grega239 All men aren't being shamed by this term. People try to shame each other all the time. I think the people that are called out for this term are just jerks but don't forget there's some truth to it. Also men shame women too, women shame men... Men shame men, women shame women etc. Why because people shame people. We're all idiots who can't get along and mind our own business lol

[leosp5000]

Feminists are emasculating men.

[zagor]

It is a convenient buzzword that covers a variety of misbehaviors.

[crmoore]

It technically can be but it is most definitely blown out of proportion.

[Shiningtempest]

@Kayla45 Toxic masculinity is all just smoke & mirrors used by psychotic feminists to stir up tensions between people.

[007kingifrit]

its not even a real thing. we used to call this "immaturity"

[cloud9vortex1234]

No, it's not a problem at all. Toxic People are the problem.