Anyone involved in mental health or mental health awareness hates this ongoing almost promotion of Masculinity expected of guys by guys.
You can call it toxic or just plain stupid.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner
https://thedawnrehab.com/blog/the-burden-of-toxic-masculinity-on-mens-mental-health/
https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/a-to-z/m/men-and-mental-health
it is reckoned to be one of the main indirect causes of suicide in men, a lot starts with failing to get counselling when that black dog first appears.
https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-race-good-health/201902/mental-health-among-boys-and-men-when-is-masculinity-toxic
Quote
The American Psychological Association notes that “many characteristics of masculinity—such as courage, strength, compassion, leadership, and assertiveness—are often associated with positive psychological and behavioral health.”
On the contrary, the APA Guidelines are an identity that hegemonic or rigid adherence to masculinity norms can be detrimental to the health and wellness of boys and men. For example, males are often taught that showing emotions is a sign of weakness. Based on decades of research, emotional restriction—or not expressing emotions—is linked to increased negative risk-taking and inappropriate aggression. These factors also males at greater risk for psychological and physical health problems (APA, 2019).
Effects of Toxic Masculinity
Displaying traits of toxic masculinity can lead to numerous negative outcomes. As noted in a previous blog post, adherence to rigid masculine norms may lead to:
problems with dating and interpersonal intimacy
unquote
that last one sounds very common on GaG….
I would argue that some of that "don't be a pussy" sorts of comments are actually useful and genuine forms of emotional support. I think that the things men feel more strongly than women... a sex drive that more involves just a hunger for sex in general, whereas for women it's more about building an emotional bond with the person... for example, and increased aggression, for another thing... are just things that need to be suppressed at times, and teaching men it's always okay to share all their feelings all the time is just going to cause them more harm. "Don't be a pussy" acknowledges that life can be hard, and that sometimes you have to just suck it up. That acknowledgement can actually be a form of emotional support... and I think a lot of women don't understand that.
"Don't be a pussy" can be, in many ways, more complimentary and supportive than saying "it's okay to cry" depending on the context.
But I agree that toxic masculinity is a huge problem... but I think while a lot of it stems from emotional suppression... a lot of it also stems from focusing too much on one's anger or jealousy, rather than just ignoring it... noting that the phrase "don't be a pussy" can be, depending on the context, a funny, and therefore more friendly, way of saying, "Don't think about it too much."
It entirely depends on the context. When I grew up, I heard a society insisting to me it's okay to cry and feel things... and that was a very toxic message for me. I probably because a little narcissistic for that. Now... I have an unusual personality. I don't feel negative emotions very strongly... but I do think we have a lot of angry incels and MGTOW members, and I'm wondering if one of the major problems with them is that they're not being told things like "don't be a pussy" enough, and they're being encouraged to express their emotions too much... and then we get a lot of people who focus their mental energy on their lack of sex or their anger at women for the lack of relationships with them... as opposed to the healthier option which would be, just, moving on and not worrying about it too much.
I think one of the differences between men and women, typically, is that women's emotions tend to be more rooted in nurturing and supportive, caring drives, and men's feelings tend to be more rooted in aggression. That aggression can be extremely useful... but only if we learn to control it. So... I think that as chauvinistic as the phrase "be a man" can be... it's often rooted in some very useful aspects of culture.
That said, when I think of traits that I think of as manly... which I define largely as the skill at temporarily suppressing harmful emotions when important to do so (although if you permanently suppress those emotions, or don't know how to express them... I'd label that as toxic masculinity) I think of a lot of gay men, or transgender people, and people who are comfortable with themselves.
I think positive masculinity is about knowing when to suppress one's emotions, and I think, possibly, the most manly person I've known was a nerdy guy in college who wanted to be a professor, who almost never dated, described himself as a feminist, had lots of female friends who he was very respectful to, and who worked hard in college while maintaining a very healthy social life. He didn't try to show off much. He wouldn't have gained much from it. He gained his circle of friends just through being a nice guy.
But I agree that society has an enormous problem with toxic masculinity. I don't know how much that has to do with society's teachings, or DNA, so I can't answer your question about why that exists.
Toxic masculinity has so many definitions, I don't use that term. So I'll just focus on the aspects you spoke of here.
I don't see anything wrong with being tough. I think people in general would benefit from being tougher, emotionally, mentally and physically. Well, to generate fortitude; it helps with character in the long run.
Personally, I'm not into overly emotional men. I don't find it attractive; but that's irrelevant. I'm not against expressions such as "be a man", it depends on the context and what the goal is in the situation. There is a way to express one feelings without being overly emotional. I know it goes against the modern way of self-expression, but I don't actually see it as being productive. What I noticed instead is a prevalence of self-centeredness with constantly having to talk about one's feelings as opposed to an emphasis on responsibility. Or even a balance with responsibility. That's the observation I've made.
I can understand talking about feelings and emotions but not necessarily making them the basis of actions.
I can only give my own personal feelings about what my ideal should be like. He can cry, just not all the time. I want to feel a sense of security and feel protected by him. Too many times I've been with guys don't know how to make good decisions on their own, they didn't learn how to fix things or pay the bills. Basically I had to do everything while working 40 hours a week, doing the laundry, shopping, cleaning, the car, my disabled son, and the small animals. A guy can't be a panty waist when life calls on him for things other than getting laid.
Opinion
130Opinion
Explain to me how defending strength and masculinity in men is “toxic”
Why not point out how the left wingers are waging a war on masculinity in an effort to reduce men to effeminate second class citizens.
It´s still around because there are females that prefer men to be strong. Males and females are a bit like ying and yang. If one part changes the other will to. We guys often times suppress our feelings but that doesn´t mean that we do that everywhere and every time.
The reasons guys are so after that ideal is because we have the feeling that girl want us to be the way.
Imagine a situation where you freaking out and you ask a guy for help would you want him to reassure or do you want to be freaking out as well because that´s the way he´s feeling at the moment.
You´ll probably prefer the first option because otherwise you wouldn´t have asked him for help. Because I think you what you´re actually looking is a guy that seems to better at communicating how he feels.
It´s not necessarily toxic if a guy suppresses his feelings because in certain situations being able to do so that´s a necessary ability to keep humanity going on.
So as long as there are females that look for these abilities in guys there will be guys trying to suppress their emotions to get those girls.
It's the only platform with a clear definition. Overwhelmingly, the cast of silent, bold, and stern men is the image to behold and become.
While there are whispers of emotional acceptance throughout inter-sexual communications, it's less defined and has a lot more red tape than people seem to understand. It's frightfully easy for men to crossover from emotionally available to clingy. For some men, a single instance of vulnerability seems to irreparably degrade their value as a partner by making them seem less stable.
Men's outlets for their emotions have been crushed. Boy's night, Guy talk, Our aesthetic desires, Outs through video games; all are dehumanized in some way. [Why can't we spend all our time being your man] is essentially our only guidance. It seems that anything men do for themselves is inherently wrong. All the while, if we act the way you might explicitly describe we should act, we become the very last person you would want to be with. There were a few studies released in 2018 which appeared to suggest that feminists were more attracted to their definition of sexist men than the men they were trying to create.
Frankly, I don't really believe many women are ready for men to act less 'toxic', primarily because they don't want to lose the benefit of a headstrong man who never backs down. If I can perceive that, dense as I might be, certainly other men can.
TLDR:
Being a strong man is wrong because it's been viewed as toxic, but most women don't seem want emotional men as partners.
It seems like there are more than a fair number of women who also promote it as well. One Gag alone you will find this idea of all the qualities a man must have in order for him to even deserve the affections of a woman. Boys are taught one thing by women growing up and then taught something else in their adult years. This contributes to the problems too. People say toxic masculinity doesn't exist. Get a couple of war vets retelling their tales about how they bayonetted people in the jungles of Nam or plowed through a bunch of people with their machine gun. I can promise you toxic masculinity exists and it's the type of crap that makes it all the easier to justify sending boys off to die in droves.
But lets be honest I dont think girls in general woman and effeminate or emotional man. Most simply want someone who comes off with masculine vibes as their partner. I dont think these issues will ever be resolved because humans are actually very self destructive by their very nature. We are a volatile and violent species. It gets amplified 10x over with men being the only ones to voice their opinions. Even so their are plenty enough female enablers that refuse to help change things for the better. What we are left with now are men with an identity crisis because they dont know who to believe. We're getting too many different opinions and no one can even agree on what a "man" even is at this point... sad.
It is like this, toxic masculinity is still so prevalent for the same reason that toxic femininity is. It is nothing but a matter of perspective... Women feel that being masculine is toxic, just as much as men think that being feminine is toxic to us.
Seriously, how many women are into the "feminine man" for real, want to have that things kids... I think not. Men like their women to be feminine, just as much as women want their men to be masculine. I just find it humorous when women start talking about what they they think a man is supposed to be like. You don't have a clue what it is to be a man, just as I have no clue what it is to be a woman.
Toxic masculinity or as far as I'm concerned toxic femininity has always been some arrogant attempt to claim to know what it is to be the opposite sex. I can't help but think what my chances of being able to procreate if I were to stop being masculine, since it's toxic and was all feminine acting... That would be like nil to none. I'll tell you what, if you agree that you are a woman, and I'm man... I promise to stay in my own lane, will you?
There aren't such things as toxic masculinity or toxic femininity 😉
The whole subject has spinged from lobbyists from an ideology that has narcissistic foundation. an ideology that are after to demonize a whole group and tries to claim it isn't just as stereotypical person with personality does to get their way no matter what.
For the sake of argument and that it really exists it's the toxic femininity side that makes it toxic and even makes toxic femininity toxic.
Just think about it. who have done majority of the racing of children through time. whom do children usually go to. whom try to manipulate their way that the child should come to them if the father are the one they comes to.
Not that there are exceptions. always are and society trends that shift how common thing's are.
Life isn't as black and white like many tries to paint it up to be.
Also online media aren't really as it is in real life. that can you thank people with mental health issues triggering each other and build up reality about real life that isn't accurate. then do easily influenced mind come across it and get dragged into their shit and starts to become like them and spreads it or just buy it and spread it like in a belief of that it is true without even learned if it really is like that in real life.
I want to talk about someone.
Jorge Sampaio. Died recently, was a politician of my country, former president. A few things about him.
1. Tears came to him easy. (Guys here already calling him weak)
2. He lived in times of dictatorship and was part of the resistance. In a time where people suddenly vanished to never be seen again he was tortured, but never broke.
3. He dissolved the government, TWICE! Against population opinion. He was not afraid to do what he needed.
4. And here comes the interesting part. NO ONE! Not even in opposing parties said a single bad thing about him. He was so fair, such a clean record, an history to always do what was best for others and not him, that even members of the government he dissolved said "Political differences aside, it was a great man.".
Fuck ya he was!
This man, not afraid to show emotion and strong, was good.
Already on his dead bed he make sure afghan girls would have more scholarships in Portugal to help them run from their country after the US left. That was him.
That is a real man. Good and strong. Not afraid to shed a tear or to extend his hand to help others.
In my community (Asian/Pakistani) the men having a stiff upper lip is encouraged, I remember when I was young and I was crying in my bed (secretly) and my mum found out, she ripped the blanket off and was in shock to find me crying, I tried to put my hands on my face and she grabbed my arms and pulled away my hands, and then gave me a good beating for crying, and she said things in her native tongue which translate to: "You're not a girl, only a girl cries", "I'm going to beat you and get the girl out of you", "You have a female Jinn in you", etc, etc... but that was just my mum, she wasn't educated, neither was my father, however, my father moved to the UK in the late 60s and by the time I was born he had a small business of making pillows, so I was born in the UK, however my mum ws a homemaker and wasn't interested in education apart from learning to read Qu'ranic Arabic, and my dad was quite busy most of the time with the business, I guess it paid off in the end now that my family is quite well of (wealthy) and we are in the pharmaceutical business and have labs all over the world, so I am proud of my dad, however I am kind of a disappointment in the family as my brother and sisters are either doctors or charted accountants (very typical of a Pakistani family) however, I had a disability (Ucleartive Colits) so wasn't able to get through college I barely made it out of highschool, my father has invested a lot of money into me over the years, and I've been told by doctors, that I need to relax (as stress causes flair ups) sorry I digress, I don't think toxic maculaity is going away anytime soon maybe it's had an evolutionary benefit for the human species, we pretty much also see it in the animal kingdom specially in great apes which are our cousins in evolutionary terms.
"toxic masculinity" is the end result of a culture that views men as work horses and cannon fodder. If a man is broke he is worthless. Only women and children are loved unconditionally. Men are loved on the condition he provide something. So they work. Often dangerous and disgusting jobs. Jobs that require you to be tough. Jobs that don't give you the luxury of stopping and having a cry. So they hold it in. They channel those feelings in other ways. Why? Because that's what you have to do succeed. Men don't get to stop and cry in battle. They don't get to breakdown when stopping a criminal, and they don't get to be vulnerable when closing a business deal. Because society only cares about men when they're useful.
I very strongly do not agree! In fact the lack of natural masculinity is what’s toxic. A lot of younger men aka soy boys don’t even know how to change a tire, get their hands dirty, or fire a gun now days. They cry when there’s conflict and need mama to make them a warm cup of cocoa so they can “feel” better. They completely lack courage or the ability to be a natural protector, a father, or a husband. They are afraid of offending someone, speaking unless they are invited to do so by their girlfriend/wife, or even opening the door for a woman.
It’s a sick society and unless the problem is fixed, humanity in many areas of the world will be destroyed by itself either through no new children or from people not being able to be defended which is a masculine trait!
This right here is why people assume all victims of sexual abuse are female and all sexual predators are men. It also happens the other way around and this stigma right here is exactly why so many men aren’t getting help. Read one true story of a guy who said his female teacher locked him in a closet and told him he could never see his family again unless he let her have sex with him.
Most people commenting here won't understand what you mean and will be too narrow minded to try and understand.
They are somehow incapable of seeing the difference between masculinity and toxic masculinity. And that right there is the reason why it's still prevalent. They get automatically defensive and try to exaggerate anything sensible.
But personally, I really appreciate you trying to talk about it. I spent a lot of time trying to deal with toxic masculinity in me and I feel so much more free now that I got rid of it. I am learning how to be masculine without needing to be toxic.
u If we are to survive as a society, one thing that we really, REALLY need to do is drop this dopey idea that men being physically, mentally, and emotionally disciplined and stronger is somehow bad for the world. It's not. Likewise regarding men admonishing and shaming each other into acting so.
Men do in fact hurt. We feel pain, sorrow, suffering, and yes, fear. We fear death, uncertainty, failure, rejection, anything there is to feel afraid of. Male thinking however is simply sometimes a zero-sum game; we either win or we lose. How we act and what we choose can effect the rest of our lives, our families, or communities. And sometimes, that means we need to force ourselves to be stronger than we are, or admonish others to be.
There is nothing toxic about that. So can we please move on from this?
The biggest problem with "toxic" masculinity is the fact that most women don't realize that men and women process information differently, on a neurological level. Men have evolved to be able to look past our emotions. That's not to say we don't feel them, but we can look past them for a time and focus on bigger issues. This is a trait that men evolved with before the dawn of human civilization, when men were the protectors of the family unit and this needed to maintain a more logical outlook. This is something that women never needed, so you never evolved for it. This isn't to say that women can't be logical, or men can't be emotional, you can and we can, I'm merely generalizing. The only truly toxic part of masculinity are assholes, and being an asshole is not a gender exclusive trait.
Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. There is no such thing as “ toxic” masculinity, it’s a term imagined by some blue haired leftist feminazi dyke, to rail against that which she can never be, a masculine male. Masculinity and femininity are meant to complement each other, not compete against each other. Remember this stupid term the next time you get a flat tire and the lug nuts are over torqued, either a male passerby MIGHT help you, or he might just tell you to fuck off, depending on your attitude… or, you can call AAA and another MAN, with muscles and masculinity will change your tire out. Fucking feminist trash, I bet when you’re dyking out with your girlfriend you use a penis shaped dildo….
"Toxic masculinity involves cultural pressures for men to behave in a certain way."
You mean like cultural pressure for men to cry and wear dresses and be feminine? There's cultural pressure to act like a gay simp constantly so I am assuming thats what you mean.
Toxic masculinity is a new social construction. There is no such thing. It’s a new buzz word or phrase to control the minds of people. There is only and ever has been masculinity. Just plain old masculinity. Basically feminists brought this phrase into out culture. If your a man and your old fashioned or just disagree with a women your toxic in their eyes. It couldn’t be that being a man is natural. Also the irony is if a man displays masculinity he is toxic if a women does it she is strong. Complete bullshit for lack of a better phrase. It’s just the newest buzz phrase to exacerbate the double standard that already exists. Have y’all noticed marriage rates are going down? Reason men are not getting married it is not a good deal for us. Women are responsible for 80 percent of all divorces. They also cheat 69 percent more then men do. Women have options men do not unless they are the little symmetrical f-boy you all seem to love so much. If anything modern feminism is toxic.
While there is some of it, I don't think masculinity is any more toxic than today's femininity, which is in love with her self, her social media status, and her ego when weak men glorify her. She can't get along with her female co-workers, her mother, or her other female associations.
She takes excessive pride in her ability to attract and have sex, and craves sex and relationships with men who do not regard her as a human being and who think being a punk is the definition of a real man. She will drive these guys around in her own car buying them take-out, while thinking less of the guys who are working at these take-out places but in college too.
She also has no sense of responsibility, does not believe her thoughts and actions are wrong, and her only concept of change for the better is to switch out boyfriends, girlfriends, and anything or anyone else that she feels is draining her instead of looking inward for change.
It's really really the affects that are toxic. Not the statements because they are true. The reason men is tought to not cry is that it doesn't solve anything. It's not like men aren't allowed to cry, it's seen as a pointless action. No one will come to their rescue if they do, like kids or females. If anything it opens up for toxic people to pray and attack them in their weak moments. That another reason we are tought to keep it in. Nothing good will come out of it. If more females would support men instead of todays complete opposite. You could get men to open up. But as long as men is blamed for everything it won't happen.
The idea that men necessarily must be emotional and show emotions otherwise they are "bottling it up" and "not sharing their feelings" is also harmful.
Men are psychologically different from women, we don't benefit from venting and emotional support the way women do.
And such men do not appreciate if you label them broken, pretenders or even perpetrators of toxic masculinity.
If you aren't aware, the "toxic" part about toxic masculinity is the pressure to adhere to a social expectation lest you are deemed inadequate.
Not saying that push back against toxic masculinity isn't justified, but it's getting dangerously close to also being "pressure to adhere to a social expectation".
There are men who are aloof naturally, because they deal with emotions in ways other than expression, and those men feel they are caught in the crossfire.
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