I believe she was 13 when he killed her, but your point is the same.
Far as I'm concerned the Juvenile system should not handle felonies. Sure for anything less than a felony it should not go into the adult system.
The guy that raped and almost killed me, got to go through the juvenile system and he got out at 21 years old. Had he been two years older he would still be in prison. He didn't even spend 5 years in state custody, which the juvenile system is a piece of cake compared to the adult system.
Of course had he actually killed me then he would of been charged as an adult and I would not be here.
So sure, do something major and they should be charged as an adult. Now there should be limits, such as if a 8 or 10 year does something like that, there is no way a 8 year old understands what they are doing and have learned it from somewhere.
That’s fckin horrible. I’m so sorry. Rape should be the same offense as murder in my opinion. But yeah cases like this make me lean that way. But then again, if we had more child treatment as well as imprisonment. It shouldn’t be a cake walk, and released at 21 is bullshit. But seems like a needle could be thread…
You’d rather be murdered than raped if you had the choice between the two?
@WakeSkateNut2126 No, that's not what she said.
@WakeSkateNut2126 what a stupid dichotomy. You think rape is less of a crime then?
Not saying less of a crime, just different…but yes I’d rather be raped than murdered. Personal opinion I guess.
@WakeSkateNut2126 not less of a crime but should be less of a prison sentence. Right.
@WakeSkateNut2126 I used to wish he had just killed me, really I did... for several years. This is likely why so many rape victims end up committing suicide. Even if the attacker didn't actually murder them directly, they do indirectly.
@WakeSkateNut2126 don’t mean to be hard on you it’s just this is the culture. Congress still hasn’t renewed the violence against women act. Repubs keep voting it down.
I have never been raped so I have no idea of what it must feel like to have choice and control stripped away like that and then completely violated. It takes a lot of work to come back from something like that. I do think that murder is generally worse tho in terms of how long they should be locked up. Of course there’s no one size fits all for this comparison but rape is something you can work through and come back from where as with murder that’s not an option.
Yes, if the crime warrants it. Normal children are aware when they are causing harm to others. If there is a pre-existing mental disorder then the judge should take that into consideration. Of course slaughtering other living things isn’t normal brain function, so..
It does make you wonder what the professional answers would be.
I never like this. It’s such a goalpost-move. “We have a separate legal standard for adults and minors, and the age cutoff is 18. That’s the rule. Except if we are particularly upset about a crime…then there is no rule. But those are the rules when we want the rules to be that way.” I’m not a huge Kyle Rittenhouse guy, but the kid was 17. Not an adult, I don’t know what to tell you. Either try minors as minors, or try everyone by the same standard. I don’t care what they decide on, just pick one, and stick to it, hard and fast.
No idea.
Feels a bit inconsistent to judge them as adults, and the convicting them of things that are only crimes if they are minors, at the very least.
It's not weird we agree here.
I've been showing again and again that I have an extreme distaste to inconsistencies.
But for you, if the inconsistencies are resolved and the deterrent remains, it's still a problem, while for me it might not be.
Like that little mass murdering girl that killed and mutilated several baby boys.
I think the legislation shouldn't judge her as an adult, but there's such a thing as a "reasonable child" standard that should exist, and children that have significant agency (basically motility and understanding) should both have their degree of constitutionally protected freedom and responsibilities that come with it.
But I understand why society fumbles in it's way to define such things in a more rigorous manner as one wise woman once said "Ain't nobody got no time for that..."
Opinion
38Opinion
People are saying that the brain isn’t fully developed until twenty something.
Yet in most states we allow a sixteen year behind the wheel of a four thousand pound vehicle that could kill many. At eighteen we teach them to kill our enemies. Give them control of weapons of massive power.
Allow them to vote in the elections. And now there is laws being changed to allow them to drive 80000 pound trucks.
Shouldn’t be both ways!
Whats the point of even having the ability to charge kids as kids if you're just going to charge them as adults anyways? The charge is and should be irrelevant. That being said I think the child justice system is broken as well. For example two seniors in high school rob a store, one is 17 and a half and one turned 18 a month ago. One goes to Juvie till he is 18 the other goes to prison for 5 years. Yeah that doesn't make sense either.
Good point. I assume, and hope, juvenile courts have more expertise in child development and treatment. So that would be why they should handle even horrific crimes like above. And being juvenile court shouldn’t mean getting out at 21. They should be able to sentence life with parole and treatment.
Yes agree juvenile courts should have more leeway to punish. They should simply just take into account more their youth.
Yeah he should be tried as an adult because his crime was heinous, like you said and what he gets in prison is nothing compared to what he did to the girl.
For severe crimes, absolutely. Fuck this piece of shit
When 14-year-old Fucci was put into a sheriff’s office interrogation room and told by his parents that Bailey was dead and he was the last person seen with her, he replied, “How is that my problem?”
The autopsy confirmed what State Attorney R. J. Larizza said last month: that Bailey was stabbed 114 times -- at least 35 wounds are over the head and neck” -- and that many of the wounds were “defensive in nature.”
According to Larizza, Fucci’s knife was found in a pond in close proximity to Bailey’s body. The tip of that knife, he said, had broken off and was found by the medical examiner in Bailey’s body, according to an autopsy report released Wednesday.
My developing 14-year-old brain managed not to stab someone’s daughter 114 times. I dont’ give a fuck about his brain.
Nope. Game over, man. He lost his chance to breathe the same oxygen as me. Or compromise. Give the girl’s dad 45 minutes alone in him in a locked room.
Yes. If you do adult like crimes.. you'll get adult like punishments.
Gl fixing him in prison. Oh wait that's not what prison is for in actuality is it? I cut you off by accident in traffic; shame on me. You cut me off on accident. Shame on you. Shame on humanity. Why are we perfect. Shame on you. Shame on me. Oh you grew up around criminals and only saw gangbangers living the rich life. Shame on you. Oh you cannot lose weight and keep it off. Shame on you. Oh you lost all your lotto winnings. Shame on you. Oh you can't quit smoking. Shame on you. Oh you were born ugly. Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. Lets write a book on how to free humanity from bondage. We'll teach them about forgiveness and forgiving sin. We will teach them the law of liberty and it will set them free! The whole world turns the book into a SHAME ON YOU book. The End. Go to hell because... shame on you 😔
Depends on a crime, if he is a murderer or some kind of psychopath, absolutely. In fact I'll add to this statement, that parents should join him or her in a prison sentence too. 90% of all crimes committed by children happened because of horrific parenting and if parent is no where to be found, find people who gave them birth both mother and father and let them join the party together.
No. Charging a 14 yo as adult is ridiculous. It's about the maturity of a person and not the severity of a crime. If you can change this just because you want a longer sentence then there's no point in having the extra treatment for kids to begin with. In my country I have not heard of this... Usually it's the other way around so a young adult gets treated as kid because they too immature for their age.
Young adults get treated as children just because they're immature? Wow. Want a convenient cop-out!
@Jamie05rhs I think she means mental retardation or disability. If I may mansplain…. Which she’s right to point out. A teenage brain is still developing.
It depends on what crime they did to put them on trial as adults like if they did a school shooting any type of murder then yes they should be on trial as adults because they know what they're doing but the cause of them doing it should be addressed dealt with accordingly but that doesn't mean the kid get off easy just because he was bullied so now he's shooting up the school and killing innocent lives.
I think for serious crime, yes, the should be tried just like an adult. We have a juvenile system because kids make mistakes as they are learning. Stealing, trespass, fighting, those are all things that are bad choices but we sometimes get caught up in them. But for serious crime, Murder, Rape, etc... Those are things that any 14yo KNOWS are evil and wrong, and to choose to commit them should have adult consequences.
For murder, rape or other serious crimes, yes. Basically for any crime that's cruel enough that there's no hope of "fixing" that person because it's not a result of poor upbringing/circumstances. They're simply rotten. The juvenille prison should be a place for corrective behaviour for young people who are confused and on the wrong path.
Nope you have people like me willing to work with children that clearly need severe mental health services
I’ve worked in all types of clinical setting including inpatient with children. They need treatment especially if there was childhood trauma.
Yes it's right. It's always been daft that it wasn't seen as right.
If a kid commits a heinous crime willingly, then you've got a made criminal right there. Trying to "baby" the fucker and hope he "turns a new leaf" is the sort of stupid shit thinking that fills shallow graves in forests.
If your talking about the kid who shut up the school and their now charging the parents… no. That kids fucked up and needs professional help… his drawings were proof not of premeditation like they say but of instability.
I don’t support trying children broken by a society that we’re adults created as adults as acceptable.
I think when it comes to certain crimes they should put an age range in from 14-18 where they can be tried as adults but for those same crimes committed by those younger than 14 they should be handled in juvenile court. Nobody is mature enough under 14 to really understand what they’re doing the same way a 16/17 ur old might. That and the difference between and adult and a preteen when it comes to frontal brain development is vastly different.
Maybe for a 17 year old, but not a 14 year old. There should be something in between. It should be reevaluated when they turn 18. I don't know for sure how it currently works.
I don't like the idea of a 14 year old kid getting a life sentence or anything like that. I also don't like the idea of letting them go when they turn 18.
This is the kind of question that has no good answer. But we have to come up with an answer anyway.
at 14, I knew it was a bad idea to murder another 14yo. If nothing else, it's a clear indication of that youth being a significant danger to society, and should be locked up for life. Even if they are reformed after 10, 20, or 30 years, they will have lacked the education and experiences of life to function normally, and thus will be a danger again for those reasons.
It's sad, but that's the reality of it.
Yes. Kids are 12 and under. A 14 year old is very old enough to know his or her actions.
Such people like the teen above can't be left out of prison for the rest of life since he will most likely murder again if he murdered once as premeditated.
27? You don't need to be 27 years old which is grown man or woman to know right from wrong especially something heinous in nature.
12 is my cut off because you mentioned kids and kids by the population are generally considered to be 12 years old and under.
Depends. Child also can be proven non accountable. Also it shall matter what is ethical system of that person. And maybe other things, experts know which.
Either way the kid is fucked, but to me there's another question to answer first that requires a pysch evaluation: mental stability. Is there any chance this kid can be rehabilitated or was this the start of life cycle of would be murders? How pre-meditated was this, or was it an moment of insanity? These cases are rarely cut and dry.
An underage murderer should get the most severe punishment possible. So being charged as an adult is appropriate.
What I don't agree with is adding a hate crime specification to a murder charge.
Murder should always get the max sentence no matter what the motivation was.
Well the girl doesn't get to grow up and enjoy life so why should this loser get out when he is 18 and then enjoy his life? You do the crime you do the time. Have you noticed that most school shooters are kids under 18?
But I bet vigilanteism is up.
For very serious crimes. yes. From 13 years old and up, kids know right from wrong. Yes, teens are known for stupid actions, but there is a difference between stupid teen shenanigans and truly harmful and psychotic behavior.
By then the child is in middle school and has been for some time. They are going to know what death is and that death is a bad thing and causing death is bad (baring some mental health or developmental issues slowing their growth). Middle schoolers get very curious about things. That is the age where they start asking serious questions vs. just accepting things are as their parents say they are. Kids are not as dumb as adults seem to think. They know right from wrong. They may not be fully developed into thinking very far ahead, but at that age they know right from wrong well enough to try to hide what they do wrong because they know it's wrong. That means they can at least comprehend when they have done something wrong. Also by middle school they are going to know what physical pain feels like (big or small, pain is pain). Many kids' mental and physical growth starts to really speed up at that age as well.
7th grade is also when schools typically start giving out tougher punishments to children and start expecting children to hopefully start growing into who they will be later in life.
If he thinks he can carry a gun like an adult, sure
He's 15, HE SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD A GUN
For a heinous crime like murder, yes. But not for minor crimes like shoplifting or drug possession. Psychopaths are dangerous to society.
I think if you're 13, you shouldn't face harsh punishments for shoplifting. But if you're 14 or above, you should.
@Cherry234 maybe 2 nights in jail, plus community service. Not sure. What do you think?
@Jamie05rhs Yes that's a good punishment.
Okay. Cool
@t-8900 They don't go to adult jail until they turn 18. At that point they would be transferred from the juvenile facility to the adult facility.
@t-8900 Why should a 14-year-old not go to jail for stealing? And how else are they going to learn their lesson?
Its wrong. There was a black man age 15 almost 90 years ago sentenced to life in prison. They recently let him out because he was like 98 years old. Which just proves how insane it was to ever sentence a kid as an adult, even for murder.
The sentence should be realistic, 10 years of rehabilitation. And then give them an exam. At 18, let him enroll in online school. Prepare his future. Dont get revenge.
I think the whole thing comes from the "scared straight" tactic. Which doesn't work at all. Yes they committed heinous crimes and deserve to be punished for that but rehabilitation programs are far more successful than sending kids to jail.
Absolutely they should no matter the crime they commit you know right from wrong go and commit a crime and the full force of the law should be thrown at you no one should get special treatment just because they are a minor
Depends on the offens... Trial doesn't always mean guilty. It's just a means to find the truth. It doesn't mean that they are going to be put in jail.
Each case is examined on its own. If the youth charged with the serious crime understands that what they did is a serious crime, then they may be tried as adults.
Some kids are sociopaths and will continue to kill people if given the chance. They need to be locked up because they cannot be rehabilitated. If they murder somebody they should be tried as an adult.
14 year olds totally understand right from wrong. Nothing wrong with trying them as adults for crimes like that.
Yes, they should be tried as an adult. There should be one law for both adults and teenagers and even little kids. If one commits murder, their life should be forfeit.
You don't have to be an adult to know what heinous things are and not to do them.
Most "kids" being tried as adults are 16-17 year old gang bangers and rapists.
Minor shit, nah, but even a 14 yo understands that murder is bad so I don't give a fuck, throw the book at him and let him never see society again.
In Germany, being 14 makes you an adult when it comes to breaking laws. You're expected to know right from wrong at that age.
Here in America a 25 year old is still a "kid" When I visited Latin America young teens there act like grown folks.
America has a huge immaturity problem which is a sign of under deployment mentality. It's a health concern for a country that has 30 year olds acting like they are 13 years old.
When I was 14 I never thought of doing anything close to that, because I understood how wrong this is, so what's the reason to not treat this 14 year old as capable of understanding that?
Im pretty sure kids know better than to murder people. The only time they should get off free is when an adult negligently leaves a firearm out for a toddler to play with. Id say any age below 10 they should have some kind of immunity from the law
Yes it is. If not, it creates a sense of impunity that encourages teens to commit crimes, knowing that they can't be condemned
No kid thinks like that
They do, they aren't dumb
No kid thinks "Ill kill them cuz Ill only get 10 years"
Personally I think that the guardians of the minor who commuted the crime should be in part be healed partially responsible.
I'm no lawyer, but I believe you can only hold the parents responsible in some way if you can prove they were negligent and had indications that their son was unstable, violent and potentially dangerous. I don't know this particular case. Let's say for example he was your basic A student, no real trouble, happy and friendly, but was into violent or war video games. He has a moment of anger and madness and commits this crime. Are the parents at fault for that? Did they let him watch too many video games with violence, or TV shows with violence? Without actual proof of negligence, I don't think you have a case. Don't worry though, the parent's lives are ruined now too. Between their own despair and public condemnation, they're fucked too.
@loveslongnails As a guardian you are responsible for your dependent, if they do something they shouldn't, the guardian should be held responsible for what that minor did under their care. Just like the owner of a dog is responsible if the god does something it shouldn't. It's not that much different.
Do children under the age 18 infect a statistically significant amount of people with COVID-19?
Yes, I’ve seen little kids do absolutely deplorable crap.
If they can do a big boy crime they can do the big boy time
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time
Don't do it...
@OddBeMe I believe kids should be trialed as adults if they committed an egregious crime such as first-degree murder.
If any person commits repulsive crimes, then that person should be tried at a court regardless if the culprit was a kid or adult.
For murder? Yep. Granted any circumstances portraying towards this particular case have not been revealed in the description.
No, kids are kids. They shouldn't be tried as adults.
i think that it depends on if they knew what they did was wrong if they show remorse for the crime and what they did.
no bc their braids r not developed fully
Yeah. If you do an adult crime, you do adult time.
His brain was developed enough to tell his nervous system to tell his musculoskeletal system to commit the act.
Yep.
It is right.
When they commit really bad crimes
Honestly it depends on the severity of the crime.
Yes,
if you can do the crime yes.
Yes because they need the harsh consequences
No, that can never be okay
murder im fine with
Once you know what you doing you stand accountable
Yeah they deserve it
Not right at all.
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