Germany wants to increase its military budget up to 100 billion euros, will Germany break the balance of power in Europe?

[Julie4]

[genericname85]

I'm german and i can confidently say that we won't break the balance of power.

i mean just look at our defense minister. she looks like a freaking kindergarden granny. she's not competent to lead war matters. in fact she made sure that the german forces are "gendered and equal". she ensured, that german tanks "could" be driven by pregnant women if you can even believe that... i wouldn't believe that bullshit if someone told me.

germany is currently lead by ideologicly driven morons who are at best mindless puppets of the EU the NATO dictatorship that do anything that their moneygivers will tell them to do. you don't beleive me? try listening to our german foreign minister. i promise you her german is somehow not better than her kindergarden level English.

i am convinced the only goal they have is to fuck germany as hard as they can. i believe that for the following reasons:

1. the Corona crysis already lead to a forced budged of ADDITIONAL 50 billions of national debt over the next years. mind you this is igonoring the economical devastation that the lockdowns and the forced hygiene regulations caused in the last 2 years.

2. in order to "punish russia" the german government decided to not use "nordstream 2" to get gas from russia. this is a 10 billion € project that litterally was just finished in order to enable germany to keep it's co2 goals while also ensuring that energy and heating in german households will still be possible. they are now already starting a kampaigh "freezing for freedom", cause they know lots of people litterally won't be able to afford heating their house in the coming winter. this measure alone harms the german economy and people way more than it hurts the russian people. and since russian people are legally not allowed to even protest the war, it won't even do what it's supposed to do.

3. now they planned to borrow another 100 billion for military shit. you know who's gonna pay that 100 billion? yeah. me neither.

So in effect what they are doing isn't "adding the straw that breaks the camels back". it's breaking the camels back and then adding another ton of weight.

tl;dr: the german government isn't making germany fit for war. it actively kills the economy with brute force, empoverishes the people and leaves germany insolvent at the end of their reign. this is a germans view on the shit that's going on.

[maverick2022]

That's messed up. Germany is basically the abused child of the European Union. It's a communist tactic to destroy a country's economy to bring in a new one. Unless they are just robbing Germany blind of all they're worth.

[genericname85]

@maverick2022 well the European Union is a nondemocratic dictatorship installed with the purpose of overruling european national governments and rendering them basically useless when it comes to foreign affairs and even lots of internal affairs. it's not just germany. it's the entirety of Europe. no national government has. the EU has power. the NATO and the United nations, which are basically lead by the world economic forum in cooperation with the US-Government. and hence by people with a vested interest in "the people" staying poor and powerless in Europe in general, so they have the power to push their western agenda on russia and china.

[genericname85]

they always come around with noble sounding ideological projects that the national governments have to conduct on the backs of their people. we don't get to choose wether we want to pay 8 bucks a gallon of gas to "protect the planet". we don't get to choose that germany pays china billions of "development funds" for the building of coal energy plants at the same time... welcome in 2022 where nothing makes sense and the people have to take whatever bullshit their government says.

[maverick2022]

All this just to have power over Russia and China? How is that when the people behind the creation of the EU were the same people that allowed them to become powers in the first place? Anyways, I agree there are many new precedents being created and utilized around the world since the beginning of this "plandemic" and it's basically just governments telling people what to do. People accepted it at first since they were fooled that it was in their best interest. Now people are going along with it because other people are going along with it. See how they manipulate people like cattle?

[genericname85]

@maverick2022 well the question really is, if you actually believe that representative elections can be the foundation of a "democracy". i beleive they "can". but they are nowhere that i know of, cause the representants are not bound to anything that they promised in order to be voted for. they can just do the opposite when they're in power and nobody can do anything about that. you really thin what happens in the eu benefits the countries of the eu? everyone loses. it just keeps the individual countries of the EU powerless enough so that the us can mobilize them every time they want some country to be attacked. why else would the eu take part in the American war against afghanistan and irak? those wer not legitimated. but the eu isn't sovereign enough to just say no when america yells "attack".

yeah so true. yup. this pandemic was certainly a internationally coordinated coup to take controll. this is where you see that national governments don't really make a difference. it's a global power struggle between the western and the eastern world still. and the powers at play are USA, Russia and china. every other country is nothing but a puppet of on of those 3. cause what else can they do? they don't have the power to break free. UK tried with brexit. i would have loved to see how that plays out for them in a vacuum. but then there came corona and the war in ukraine, so we will probably never know.

[ODC2112]

Germany currently has a paper army. It is not even remotely comparable to the army it had at the end of the Cold War.
In 1990 the two Germans merging had 18 divisions of which 8 were armored, 8 were mechanized, with a total of 7800 tanks.
Now the German army has two divisions for a total of 328 tanks of which 224 are in working order. On paper it has 141 EF2000s, but only 38 in tranche 4 are working, as well as tornadoes which are airplanes with 40 years on their shoulders. The German warship is now out of date, it has old frigates now outdated, the only force worthy of the name are the six U-212 submarines developed with Italy.
Germany has to make up for 20 years of absent investments, where all the cuttable has been cut. Germany issues a lot of debt to finance the army, all it has saved up until now.
In the 100 billion there is also the development of the new European tank with France, Poland and Italy, since the French and the Germans are too quarrelsome from an industrial point of view to develop anything together.

German fund of 102 billion euros to strengthen the armed forces. 34 billion euros, one third of the planned total, would be allocated to multinational programs including the European TWISTER project. It is dedicated to anti-missile defense also against supersonic missiles and the development of a cybernetic Combat Cloud and the development of strategic air transport capabilities.

Also in this bottom third there would be the resources assigned to the Franco-Spanish-German Future Combat Air System which, moreover, does not seem to be in "good health", in fact the Germans are arguing with the French to decide who should design the plane.

This also includes the French-German tank MGCS, which they also want to bring in Italy (because otherwise the French and the Germans just quarrel), the Eurodrone and a new air defense system in partnership with France; it would also include a new artillery and ammunition system to be developed in collaboration with Great Britain, the development of new frigates and helicopter carriers in partnership with the Netherlands and the U212 CD program carried out with Norway.

The remaining two thirds of the "fund" equal to 68 billion euros would be destined mostly to national needs with the Tornado replacement program at the top of the list with an expected sum of 15 billion euros with 35 F35As.

Another program that would be financed with 5 billion euros is that relating to the replacement of the current obsolete CH-53G heavy transport helicopters, with high maintenance costs; the “battle” for succession concerns CH-53K and CH-47F Block II.

A good 20 billion euros would be allocated to renew the ammunition equipment of the Army, Air Force and Navy, whose availability levels have fallen dangerously to minimum levels.

With 3 billion euros it is intended to finance the Digitization of terrestrial operations (D-LBO) by renewing the entire communications sector. It may seem strange but it seems that a large part of the German land departments operate with analogue radio systems with the sole exception of the special departments that have digital and encrypted systems at their disposal.

Two billion euros will be allocated to the German Navy for the construction of the new multi-role corvettes.

Finally, 600 million euros would be committed for the modernization of the MIM-104 Patriot air defense system.

Obviously, there would be other programs that would receive funding with 22 billion euros allocated.

[Elliegirl]

That’s quite an increase. My guess is it’s to be prepared if Russia decides to keep moving east.

[Bratsondanielle]

That depends how much a euro is and how much the gdp of the European country is

[OpenClose]

Well the nice thing is that ever since WWII, Germany has been reluctant to be too militaristic or actively claim too much leadership in Europe, generally receiving in by population with seats in the EU or it being deferred by others. At least as I've been hearing it.

IIRC, when Trump was president, European leaders were looking harder at what a leader of the free world would be distinct from the US. Germany was being brought up, but many of their leaders were like "dafuq?"

They have famously been some of the bigger doves in Europe. So when Germany is expanding their military, you can probably be sure it's for good reason.

Though most NATO members have under-contributed. While seeing Europe militarize is freaky, I do like them being more independent. America acting as world police is kinda freaky given our instability and polarization these last couple decades.

[Lionman95]

No necessarily because as German I could if one thing we´re good at than it´s officialism. The Germany army has spent a lot of money in the past without getting out much profit of that. Plus we´re already spending about 50 billion a year but at the same time the last military inspector is that Germany isn´t capable of defending itself.
At the current state many of our military weapons aren´t ready for combat. Also we don´t have a selective service since 2011 so our men power in service should be smaller than the French or other countries of Europe.

[ChrisMaster69]

No, an increase in budget is just recognising the high cost of modern next gen systems.

For example RAF Tempest next gen aircraft. I can very much imagine Germany joining with Sweden on the programme.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/OnyHedoty4A

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2022-02-16/growing-links-between-japans-f-x-and-anglo-italian-tempest

[DryGermanGuy]

Nothing dramatic is going to happen. The German Bundeswehr will use the money to modernize and re-equip, something they should have done years ago. These 100 billion € also are to be stretched for the next ten years, it’s not like we suddenly want to build atomic aircraft carriers or something of that magnitude.

[Astarlessnightsky]

That is not true.

Germany now wants to increase their military spending to the NATO standard of (at least) 2% of the gdp.

The 100 Billion € is planned to be a one time emergency budget in order to repair and replace the old, half broken military equipment and rebuild the Bundeswehr.

But yes, if germany is spending the 2% gdp their military budget is suddenly among the top 5, worldwide.

[front2back]

I'm not worried really, but $100B is nothing without the manpower and training to boot. Can Germany recruit & retain enough motivated and well trained men to make good use of that $100B? Because if it just goes to advanced aircraft or armor it won't change much.

[Entechad]

The US Budget is 10X that of Germany. NATO is a union of power. This isn't about a balance of power. It's about accumulative show of force and that takes money and balls. (Right now we {US} only have money)

[Avicenna]

No, absolutely not- Germany already dominates Europe anyway, and it's been skimping badly on its military for a long time. If Germany can build up its military, it won't be as dependent on the US.

[genericname85]

considering that our economy was already properly fucked by our co2 ideology, corona and the collapse of production chains through chip shortages caused by china and food shortages caused by the ukrainian occupation, this is way more than just the straw that broke the camels back.

[Andres77]

It's about fuqing time!
Instead of pandering to the Syrian male refugees as those coward bastards left their wives and kids in Syria.
Germany better get their head out of their ass or they're going to become irrelevant.
Shameful.

[bolverk]

'Will Germany break the balance of power in Europe'? Doubtful, Germany has been behind the curve on funding their armed forces for a while now, it will take a while for them to bring their forces up to the level that they were in the nineties.

[jshm2]

So? Have you any idea what military stuff costs?

A single fighter jet can set you back about a billion euro.

[Entechad]

They will need a lot of money to update their military with F-35's. The F-35 is actually a very reasonable priced fighter jet for what you get. It can outperform the Mig in every way and a discounted price of $250-350 Million, depending on if you get the starbucks cupholders and the ballsack massagers.

[ragooo8]

Trump told them way back they should contribute more money for their own defense and that they would pay in thd long run for being dependent on Russian gas.

[Jersey2]

Germany has not kept its promise of 2% GDP to defense. They are behind and have a hollow military according to the German commander. They need to invest now that the Russian Bear is awake again.

[Reijen]

So, like twice what it spends now.
Well, doing more military investments is good and all, but if your country is so dependent on the aggressor, might want to change that first.
Probably shouldn't have gotten rid of their nuclear power plants.

[sawno]

The germans already rule over Europe so wouldn't break anything.

[BCA6010]

No, other European countries will more or less follow suit.

[In_Trance]

I don't think Germany has that kind of liquidity. But I'm sure media throws around big numbers for military spending and all kinds of other things for the shock value

[tartaarsaus]

Germany arguably is the country with one of the best access to debt capital markets and a very, very good credit rating. They’ll be fine in financing this if they want

[Twalli]

Unlikely. It won't try anything with it. Russia invading Ukraine has shown that invasion is not as easy as you expect.

[nawtee_me]

No because they were below what they were supposed to be having for their budget to start with. Ukraine was an awakening for them.

[Fuentes]

Not really Germany had always been the main super power in Europe and Japan is also increasing their Mil spending too

[TheFlak38]

I can foresee Germany becoming a respectable military power again.

[driven159]

right now, doesn't matter they need protect them selves

[TallAnon]

No, people will keep a close eye on them, historical precedent and all that.

[SignedAutographs]

No. It's preparing for war against Russian aggression

[jimmy2]

US and Europe has held Germany back so now is the time for them to do it. Trump ask all NATO to increased and now they are

[Iron_Man]

Yes they will then attack France

[Iron_Man]

Lol 😂

[Cubus]

With left government this is not gonna pass

[genericname85]

trust me, our national government does not have any power at all. we just do what the EU and NATO sais.

[Cubus]

@genericname85 Isn't Germany the most powerful country in EU, next to France?

[genericname85]

sure. economically speaking. though if the nato says "go, do this", we do that. if people are against that, they'll be framed as nazis in the media as every time the people don't like what the government does. we don't live in a democracy in germany xD democracy is a hoax told such that people keep being compliant with being fucked in the ass by government.

[genericname85]

remember the german involvement in the crimes against humanity that the US commited in Afganistan and Iraq? yeah. nobody in germany wanted that... who cares? the EU and NATO determines what happens. not we, the people.

[Wise4myage]

All the European countries should do that.

[ManHater]

Laugh, 100 billion is nothing.

[Waldoe]

maybe, maybe not... I trust Germany... now

[Erron_Black]

they scared from russia? :D

[melanieeeB]

Lol no

[Anonymous]

yup their foreign policy has never changed