Should Student Loans Be Forgiven?

[MrSpine]

Yes, fully for each person that took out student loans

Yes, only some borrowers

No

[Aerissa_Jade]

There is already ways in place to do it, like the one method... pay your loans as required for 20 years then the rest can be forgiven.

Otherwise no, because it screws the tax payer, but even worse is there are a lot of people who have worked two or three jobs, increasing stress and potentially having health issues from it. That paid down or paid off, how does anyone think they are going to feel when they realize they could of lived a better life, not worked so hard to pay it off or down and had it written off?

Its going to cause a extreme amount of people being outraged and pissed off, it will be a great way to ultra divide the country even more.

Now there is a way to do this and be fair to everyone, rather than forgive student loans... just give every citizen 10k to do as they wish, those with student loans have it auto apply to their loans first, those who paid off the loans then get some of their money back and those who were never able to attend college, might be able to now.

I am not saying that is what should happen, just a way to make it fair if people insist on this folly.

[vald9inches]

Its not the tax payers that get screwed its the greedy banks and people who made the loans out? You do know that right?

[Aerissa_Jade]

@vald9inches You do know the government has guaranteed those student loans, thus banks don't take the hit. They did it that way so that banks would loan to people with zero credit for education. Banks will not lose much of anything.

But people who signed on the dot should own up and stop wanting to be a thief, just pay the loan they agreed to otherwise they are thieves... don't like it, don't sign it. No one held a gun to your head and forced you sign.

Only a fucking idiot would sign if they don't agree with the terms. Seems we have a lot of fucking idiots here who also wanted to become thieving fucking idiots.

[007kingifrit]

@vald9inches all student loans are given by the government, not private companies, not banks

[vald9inches]

@Aerissa_Jade well then stop being lazy and change your government if you don't want them to take your money and give it to some rich bankers? Why would you blame someone that only wants a shot at life and does not control those highway robbery prices for a simple education?

[vald9inches]

@007kingfrit um are you saying that those loans are backed by the government or are you saying the us government is in the banking business?

[exitseven]

I would go along with this but people will expect it eveyr year.

[exitseven]

@vald9inches nope, most of the money is from the government student loan program. Guess who funds the US government?

[Smoke-n-Growls]

@exitseven

Then forgive the loans every year. Decades of research have shown that free post-secondary education provides more GDP than making it impossible to afford higher education.

A more educated populous makes more money. That means more taxes. And also, educated people tend to support better policies and generally use less resources than non-educated people.

So making higher education more affordable will literally make your country happier, healthier, and wealthier.

[monorprise]

@Smoke-n-Growls The reason the loans are not being repayed is they went toward an education that failed to support a career which could repay them. Thus clearly it is not increasing the GDP at all.

Indeed its hard to see where you get such data, America has the highest GDP per-catia of any large nation on earth. The only countries higher either are selling natural resources or are tiny economically connected cities. So there is no place from which such data could come which would be relevant.

That said the school should be held financially responsible for the defaulted loan. Not only did THEY choose to issue the loan via their financial services department. They did so for their own 'education' product which subsequently failed to produce a career which could even repay it.

Yet they are asking we the Tax payer the only innocent party here to pay for the consequence of THEIR scam?

No business in America has sweet deal as they have now, a fact that is no doubt responsible for why they are able to get away with such absurdly disconnected from reality lifestyles and prices.

[Prettygurl12]

I think that you sign a legally binding contract when you get a loan and you are therefore morally and legally obligated to pay it back.

The fact that you were 18 or "didn't know" or didn't read the fine print or your education didn't result in a job that provides enough excess funds to pay the loan back is not the lender's problem.

I think that how someone treats a debt owed is a direct reflection on their character and integrity as a human being.

[vald9inches]

Ever heard of predatory loans? Do you have any empathy or humanity at all?

[Prettygurl12]

@vald9inches I have heard of predatory loans. But again, it's not my fault that someone signed something they didn't understand. By signing the loan paperwork you say you understand and agree to the terms. Don't sign shit you don't understand. And there's more than one way to skin a cat. People who put themselves in a corner where they think they're a victim and the only thing for them to do is to sign this outrageous loan agreement are idiots, honestly.

It's an honor and integrity thing. You said you would do X so therefore you must. Don't agree to do X if you don't plan on actually doing it. You can say that the loan company has no honor and integrity and you'd be right, but you can only control you. So don't sign shit you don't understand or enter into legally binding contracts with people you don't trust.

[notwoke]

not sure how I'm responsible to pay back the cost of predatory loans I didn't take. go after the person who lent you the money

[monorprise]

@Prettygurl12 Realistically most of theses people were kids who were both emotionally immature and ignorant. The very reason they were sent to the school which apparently took advantage of both selling them a bill of goods.

This is not to say the tax payer who had nothing to do with the predatory transaction has any responsibility, but the school certainly should not get the full payment when the kid defaults just like any other industry.

Even a car dealer doesn't really want to sell someone a car they know they will never be able to pay for simply because they lose money too. The scam here is Congress has already put the taxpayer on the hook in issuing the loans and paying the school upfront.

[Aerissa_Jade]

@monorprise You have good points, I personally think student loans should be allowed to be in a bankruptcy, but if they are the degree gets turned back to the school and taken away. After all what other asset does one get to keep when they file bankruptcy or don't pay for it? Everything is either taken away or given back.

At least it gives them a way out if they are really as bad off as they say so they can start over.

[nightdrot]

Voted No. Two problems ensue with a policy of student loan forgiveness.

First, at a time when the value of a college degree - below post-graduate level - is already in decline, this is a superb way to reduce the value of a degree further. Second, it would represent a massive transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

On the first, it has already been noted that a college degree is not worth what it once was. This is actually not a new phenomenon. Back in the day, when the economy was a mercantile/agricultural economy, a high school diploma was gold. It represented a degree of academic attainment that was not common in the economy of that age.

As the economy industrialized, a Bachelor degree became the gold standard. Rare and valuable was the employee. Workers who were trained in the management and/or science of an industrial economy were highly valued above the blue collar worker.

Two things have begun to change this. The first was two world wars, the Great Depression and the Korean War. The men who came home from all that vowed that their children would not have to go through what they went through, and so the student loan program and - for the returning soldiers themselves - the G. I. Bill.

Over time these made the Bachelors degree relatively common and thus less economically valuable. This then has been further exacerbated by the transitioning of the economy from a manufacturing/extractions base to a high tech/service base. This latter requiring, in its management, a higher level of academic training and thus the post-graduate degree is becoming the gold standard.

Student loan forgiveness will simply incentivize the further expansion of the Bachelors degree and even the post-graduate degree. This in due course devaluing it economically. Thus it may sound harsh, but by limiting the college degree - by both academic and economic means - its' value is preserved.

This also, paradoxically, has a knock on effect for those without a college degree and who thus make less money. Those who get college degrees make more money and to use tax dollars to pay off those with college educations, in effect, transfers wealth from the relatively poor to the relatively rich.

The impact of this is both to harm the poor in the short term, while in the long term undermining the economic benefits of a college degree as those degrees become more ubiquitous in the economy. Debt forgiveness is, of course, only one facet of this larger phenomenon, but it is not negligible. Not to mention that by absolving those who borrow by choice from their obligations, public policy is fostering an ethic or irresponsibility.

Put it all together and the case is strongly against student loan debt forgiveness. The better option being to create options outside the college route such a vocational training and the like.

[OlderAndWiser]

No, they are obligations which were voluntarily assumed. Why should I pay taxes to repay the $100,000 of student loans that you incurred to get a degree in art history which you now cannot repay because you are just a waiter at the local Italian restaurant?

[WhiteBoyChill]

This is so true lol

[OlderAndWiser]

@WhiteBoyChill Three downvotes, so there are at least three users here who are waiting tables at the local Italian restaurant, hoping someone else will bail them out from paying for their mistakes.

[vald9inches]

Lmfao thats easy for you to say when you and your generation had it so easy and tuition cost a few hundred dollars lmfao 😂😂🤦🤦🤦

[WhiteBoyChill]

@vald9inches That doesn’t change the fact that people our age have been known to act irresponsibly

[vald9inches]

And you dont think there were irresponsible people in their generation? Don't be delusional and buy that propaganda that our generation are somehow lazy and irresponsible if anything our generation has worked harder than any before and we got nothing out of it thats why so many people are opting out

[OlderAndWiser]

@vald9inches so someone else should pay your loans for you? As for easy, I put myself through law school while working 30 hours per week. And I had loans to pay off when I finished.

[vald9inches]

@OlderAndWiser Don't think you can lecture our generation about morals and virtues when your generation practically had everything handed to them. Also civilization is based on cooperation if you dont like that idea you can go live in the jungle and stop freeloading on all of mankind's achievements old man

[vald9inches]

30 hours per week! Lmfao this generation are working 40-60 hours per week or more and still not getting anywhere and you are actually complaining about working 30? Lmfao 😂😂😂

[WhiteBoyChill]

@vald9inches Clearly someone wasn’t reading because he clearly said he was working while studying in law school. What part of that didn’t you understand?

[OlderAndWiser]

@vald9inches

1. You are certainly entrenched in your victimization and I won't try to talk you out of it.
2. Be careful calling people names in a derogatory manner on this site. There are modertors who will hide your comments and possibly freeze your account for violating the posting rules.
3. I worled 30 hours per week, attended school full time, and graduated with honors.

[vald9inches]

Chill white boy there are people who work more than that while studying.

[OlderAndWiser]

@vald9inches Last warning.

[vald9inches]

@OlderAndWiser like i said dont lecture our generation when your generation had everything practically handed to them

[WhiteBoyChill]

@vald9inches Perhaps so but you made the false assertion that he had everything “easy” in life and that it was all just handed to him.

This man has had to work hard for everything he’s produced. So what do you have to say for yourself?

[OlderAndWiser]

@vald9inches You are misled if you think everything was given to me. I worked while I was in college, I worked in law school, I sold some possessions, and I still got good grades without a penny from my parents. I had student loans and I didn't ask anyone else to repay them.

[vald9inches]

@WhiteBoyChill his anecdotal evidence is nothing i am talking about facts here. Just looking at inflation alone will tell you how easy they had it never mind the price of goods and services and how cheap homes were.

[vald9inches]

@OlderAndWiser yea like i said i dont care for your anecdotal evidence. There will always be outliers for whatever reason maybe you lived in New York or some other expensive city doesn't change if you tried to do the same thing now in the same city you are guaranteed to be impoverished and in debt and most likely homeless

[WhiteBoyChill]

@vald9inches Just because life may have been easier back then doesn’t mean people didn’t have to work hard.

[OlderAndWiser]

@vald9inches https://youtu.be/SVKKRzemX_w

[vald9inches]

louis armstrong is one of my favorite singers

[nitsuj86]

In 99% of cases... No.

You want to go to college but don't have the money? Either don't go, or borrow it. If you borrow the money you should have to pay it back, no matter how stupid of a decision it was.

I was stupid. I paid over 100k for a Bachelor of Fine Arts, private loans too, those don't go away, pretty stupid right? Because I was good at drawing... Well, knowing I would have to pay that back, I went into Graphic Design, the only field at my school that had even a chance of making the money to pay that back. I made consistent payments from the moment I graduated until they were paid off.

I worked for 12+ years paying back my loans, sacrificing vacations, dates, a decent home of my own, a reliable car, etc.

I finally found a field using my degree that makes me good money, and I was able to not only pay off my loans, but now I am making more than most people my age. What may have seemed like a dumb investment payed off, because I made it pay off. Might have taken me a bit longer, but lesson learned.

Now, why should I, who sacrificed so much of my life to pay off my loans, be forced to pay taxes that will be used to pay off the loans of others, who made the same decision I did, but "don't want to" or feel like "they can't" pay off what they agreed to. It's not the worlds fault that our parents didn't teach us about interest and how much your monthly payment would be.

So because I went to college a few years before everyone else, I had to pay 120k. While everyone else who chose to study some dumb major can get off scot-free, and on top of that contribute little to nothing to the society that is paying for their useless degree that can't even make them enough money to pay off their own bills.

Sure there are 1% cases where I can find sympathy, but most people are just looking for someone to bail them out of the stupid decision they made when they were younger. And they can afford to pay them, but that would require them living in a shittier place, or not being able to go on that vacation. A sacrifice most people can't make these days.

[JamesDiaz11]

I think they should. Take into consideration that a majority of my school was paid by the GI Bill, but the thing is that college doesn't help people anymore (except in a few select majors), it simply provides the bare minimum they need to survive in the modern economy; so, if it's necessary, the government should provide it.
Of course this would be incredibly expensive, so college needs to be reformed to cut out the garbage classes (African studies, gender studies, communication, etc.), and focus on career specific courses. Most of it could be implemented at the community college level, without even the cost of funding its own separate buildings (which are costly, justifying high tuition), and could utilize high school classrooms (after hours), and virtual classes.
A few select universities could stay around, but the standards would be so high that only a select few would make it in (including an abandonment of affirmative action, as blacks admitted are at the bottom of any school they're admitted to, which is typically 1-2 levels beyond their academic ability).

[libsaretards]

Normally I would be of the mentality of "You took the debt you pay it back", but in the case of millennials and older Gen Z, we were not properly educated on the consequences of student loans. They were pushed down our throat like they were a good thing. College was shoved down our throat as the only real path to success. In other words, we were mislead by the people we trusted to guide us. So, just this one time, I do believe student loans should be forgiven. However, now that we know better, this forgiveness should be a one time only thing and if we get into this position again we would not expect another bailout. Banks get bailouts so why not us? As for the "it is not fair to those who already paid their loans off" crowd, your cost of college was not as high compared to your potential earnings.

As for how to prevent such a mess in the future, education about the affects of student loans should be made mandatory in high school and not just some little 20-minute briefing. They should be incorporated in a mandatory finance class and explained in detail, drilled into the heads of kids and the lessons on student loans should require a 100% score to pass.

[Anonymous]

Forgiven.. absolutely. Education should not cost as much as a downplayment on a house… and high schools and parents in collaboration, should have done a better job at understanding what they are putting generations of kids into by making them borrow thousands of dollars.. not only doesn’t it set people back, it also sends a mixed message… “oh, never borrow more than you need too….. but for school, you need to make sure you take out as much as you can to go to a good school for proper education..” if I could do it all over again, I wouldn’t have gone to school.. id have worked and gotten experience in a field I enjoyed because going for a piece of paper if you aren’t going to be a doctor, nurse, business or law, isn’t worth the money..


And lastly, people say, well it’s not fair to the people that paid the money back.. well, I don’t give a fuck what’s fair to them are not.. life isn’t fair. Forgive the loans, stimulate the economy.. or raise wages and give incentives to do so.. otherwise, millions more Americans will default again. And what’s the point of making millions of people try to pay back money in full that they couldn’t even pay in monthly installments.. lol the system is broken and fucked up.. yet it’s mind blowing that people try to defend it.

[theothersider]

The whole system is designed to be predatory. My mom had a 20k loan she paid 55k on the loan and still owed 20k on the loan. One of the first things I did when I got promoted to manager and with it the gigantic raise I paid off her loan in about a year. This is a common story most people will become indentured servents just to the interest payments. Unfortunately the gov can not forgive a trillion dollars in secured loan debt with out breaking the US taxpayer. Handing out trillions over the last 3 years is what kinda got us into the situation we are in now. Tho the way I see it if you have paid back 3 times the amount of the loan then it should count as squarsies.

[monorprise]

Dept has long been regarded as the path to slavery. Indeed the modern institution of slavery started that way. Even the Bible spoke of this problem which it refers to as usury.

Interest however was justified on the basis of offsetting the risk of non-payment. it seems to we have allowed interest rates and payment plans to become so low as to lull people into perpetual dept.

[exitseven]

No, these kids signed up for it and they need to be responsible for their own debts. If these snowflakes wanted to go to some fancy private college and get into debt to major in sociology or some other useless degree it is up to them to pay for it. My kids all went to local schools and commuted. They all graduated in 4 years with no debt. We paid the tuition in real time and I took out a home equity line of credit to cover any tuition bill I could not cover. I felled out all the FAFSA forms for my 3 kids and got zero help from anyone. I expect everyone also to pay their own way too.

[shaysh87]

No. Because if the borrower doesn't pay it, someone else is gonna pay it , which is the government. Then you will further complain when your taxes get higher because of this.

Loans should not be forgiven because there are plenty of people who achieved great career success and can pay it off. Lawyers or medical school students owe an average of 300,000. These people can potentially make millions throughout their lifetime. They can pay that off easily within less than 5 years.

When you tell students they dont have to pay for school, you are de-risking their lives. They would think its ok to fail or not get good grades in school since they won't be paying for it anyways. They won't lose anything by dropping out.

Would you focus more in school if you were paying 100k a year for it or if you were paying nothing for it? Of course the sstudent who paid for it would pay more attention in school

[vald9inches]

You have zero humanity at all dont you? How could you look at the price of tuition and all these predatory loans that comes with crazy interest rates and say loans should not be forgiven and they should work for their entire life working in minimum wage jobs paying it off to make some rich person richer? Where is your humanity? Have you been brainwashed so much that you would betray your fellow human beings?

[shaysh87]

@vald9inches

I am an educated professional. Vast majority of folks who attend college, especially graduate school, do end up having the ability to pay back loans.

I have seen dentists with their own private practices who have raked in millions over their lifetime, still are unable to pay back their student loans. They live in luxury apartments , drive nice cars , eat the most expensive foods YET they still have student loans left to pay. It all boils down to priority.

Because at the end of the day , If borrowers don’t pay it, you will pay it for them. Get ready to see half your paycheck taken away from you

[KrisPW]

So all of those people that were responsible and paid their loans are now on the hook for those that don't want to? Or those that didn't go to college because they couldn't afford the loans?

Should a loan made for a basket weaving degree be paid the same as an architectural or engineering degree?

These loans are voluntary. If you took out unreasonable loans to get a shit degree that will never be able to pay it back, then that should be on you.

[vald9inches]

Why would they be on the hook? Also no those loans are not voluntary you would have to be blind to believe that

[KrisPW]

@vald9inches Because "forgiving" these loans is going to take taxpayer funds, so all of those responsible people that earned degrees that paid for their loans...

How am I blind? There is no requirement that one goes to college. There are plenty of trades that pay very well without a degree. And even if one decides they need a degree, you get the choice on where to attend and what degree to work toward.

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches there is NO such thing as “free college, healthcare, etc.” Do you think this money will come out of thin air?

[motownplayer2000]

So let me ask you this… you said that it’s unfair that “taxpayers” have to fit the bill. My thing is 1) the government gets a cut of everything you earn or spend… food, gas, entertainment, income, they tax your property, etc.. everything of value they get a cut.. how much of a pain is it really to pay off student loans from outrageously high school prices. 2) why is it they get to charge interest on the loans itself. I’d be ok if it was just the principal I’m paying. But what makes it almost impossible to pay he is the interest that accrues.. so they get taxes off everything and extra money off the interest + the original money borrowed.. 3) if you grew up in this country. You would know that there has always been a heavy push for secondary education. My parents pushed that, although they had no way of helping, society, even High schools (who should prepare you for life, only prepare you for college). So if that is the push that 90% of families strive for, instead of teaching there kids that.. “hmmmm, that’s a lot of money, you sure you want to do that, let’s look at different options..” isn’t the common thing out of the older generations mouths.. what do you expect.

This is why I laugh at the arguments of you took it out, you pay it back.. lol because your politicians don’t see it that way.. all they do is raise the debt ceiling.. but I’ve got to pay back something that shouldn’t be inflated that high in the first place.. not everyone is cut out to do a trade. Not everyone wants to be an electrician, or woodworker, or farmer or anything like that. But when most companies require you to have a degree.. and 5-10 years experience.. it’s hard to actually do anything. So what is the solution because going to a trade is not in for some. And student loan borrowing is a broken system

[KrisPW]

@motownplayer2000 So let me get this straight... YOU chose your degree path, YOU chose the school / schools attended, YOU took out the loan knowing the interest would have to be paid, YOU chose not to work while taking classes, YOU are the only one receiving the supposed benefit of the degree. How is it now OUR debt to pay back? Why should inflation and taxes go up because YOU made the decision to take out these loans?

If the degree you received isn't valuable enough for you to pay back the loan, then how the hell is it somehow a value to the country to pay back your loan?

[globetrotter22]

@KrisPW exactly.

[globetrotter22]

@KrisPW i went without a car and road a bicycle for almost two years to budget to pay off my student loans. I sacrificed. Now they people want to get bailed out on our dime makes me want to vomit.

Instead of looking to the government (which is our money via taxes) why don’t these people focus their attention on the universities and their insane tuition hikes? Why is no one pointing the finger at colleges?

[vald9inches]

@KrisPW there is no you or i in society there is only WE. When there are homelessness it is OUR problem and not their problem. When there are uneducated people it is OUR problem. When people are in massive debt because they simply want to live their life IT IS OUR PROBLEM. Everyone in this day and age in this consumer capitalist system are too self centered and selfish and inhumane. Civilization came into existence be everyone got together to solve we problems because they are ultimately HUMAN problems. If you dont like that if you dont like the notation of WE then i suggest you leave society and civilization and live in the jungle because you will be happiest because you seem to advocate the survival of the fittest mentality and nobody takes my stuff mentality and the jungle is the perfect place for that.

[vald9inches]

@globetrotter22 do you want a trophy or something for being a good successful person or something? If you dont like the idea of WE you can also leave civilization to live in the jungle lol

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches no I take f*cking responsibility for my own decisions. It seems that being self accountable for your actions is a foreign concept to a lot of liberals. So yes you people really do want to live in a jungle. Well don’t be surprised that you will never get a castle built with that mentality. Nor should you expect someone else to build it for you.

[vald9inches]

@globetrotter22 so why are you complaining that you paid off your student loans while other human beings are asking for debt forgiveness when you yourself admitted that the tuition hikes are insane?

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches because we should auditing the colleges for this crap NOT screwing over the tax payer.

Also what about people who did NOT go to college. Why should they pay more in taxes for people who did?

You are a man. Think like one. You know there is no such thing as “free” when it comes to government programs. It means either more taxes hikes and/or more national debt. Both we don’t need.

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches to be fair I am open to very low cost state sponsored 2 year community college programs. Let kids get their main credits completed before enrolling in a university.

This community college should be no glamorous than a high school. The universities have literally turned dorms and facilities into a high paid resorts to attract students. Why did you go to college in the first place? To get an education or party for 4 years?

[motownplayer2000]

Who’s fault is it that offers a degree that isn’t worth the money spent but the offer it anyway? If you can’t go into that degree field without a degree and/or 5 years experience.. if you don’t see the game that’s being played, you choose not too. It’s not a choice, it’s required that most things you go into they want bachelors or higher. And 5 years experience. Unless you are lucky to go in knowing some one that teaches the ropes and gives you the experience. Not to mention most schools require you to take bullshit classes just so they can charge more money. The system is messed up. Yeah, of course “you” choose not to go that route.. but you will probably end up doing something you don’t like and will likely bounce around aimlessly for the rest of your life… that will affect your life in a negative way.. as much as you think it’s a choice, for most it’s not.. it’s forced on them or heavily expected and reinforced.. this isn’t an excuse it’s a fact.. nobody says that they don’t want to pay a loan back.. but the point is educations shouldn’t cost this much in the first place…

Oh and that funny comment about why should taxes go up because of a decision we made… lol they raise taxes any way for the dumbest reasons, but y’all are ok with that.. but something that will help millions of people y’all ready to dismiss.. lol if you drive.. did you complain about gas prices.. you should if this is that logic. Just pay the over inflated gas prices with that same energy.. lol

[KrisPW]

@vald9inches "there is no you or i in society there is only WE." Ok... Society has decided that the degree / skills you possess are not worth the tuition you chose to borrow toward. Otherwise you would be earning enough to pay for your loans. So now you expect society to be forced to pay your loans anyway through forced taxation?

@motownplayer2000 "Who’s fault is it that offers a degree that isn’t worth the money spent but the offer it anyway?" The people that choose to seek that degree. If nobody sought the degree, the college would not offer it. And there are people out there with plenty of disposable income that can pay for and attain "worthless" degrees.

The government needs to be out of the education lending business. Let the lenders decide which degrees and which schools are going to get them their money back. If a degree and school become to risky, then so be it. If you want to go to school to further your underwater basket weaving skills because it's your life long passion? Go for it. On your dime, not ours.

[vald9inches]

@KrisPW again what you describe is the current self centered capitalist consumer system that decides some people can live and others not. Your mind is still stuck in that mode of thinking and can't see anything else because its all you have ever known and been conditioned to think this way and be self centered.

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches “the current self centered capitalist consumer system that decides some people can live and others not”

So you think communism is the answer?

[motownplayer2000]

So you are telling me that, meteorologists is pointless, that musicians are worthless, that teacher are worthless, that psychologist are worthless… those jobs aren’t well paying jobs which demand many years of schooling. But yeah, a teacher who owes thousands and thousands in student loans is their fault for going into a position that doesn’t pay them enough for teaching you or your kids.. sure, that wonderful logic.. 🙄

If it wasn’t for half those degree fields they offer there wouldn’t be advancement in many different fields of study.. but you are right, school is pretty much a waste of money and time… let’s go back to the old days where most of the nation was illiterate (since teaching is a “worthless” degree). Without the government, no one, and I mean absolutely no one would be able to accord (primary) or high schools let alone secondary schools (university). They fund it so kids have an opportunity to be able to attend and learn. But yeah, your bright idea is to have everyone illiterate. So I guess that works.. 😳 lol

[vald9inches]

@globetrotter22 anything is better than capitalism at this point. Hell even if we went back to feudalism it would be more humane than capitalism lmfao so yes Socialism/Communism is ideally necessary in the near future especially with all the advances in automation

[vald9inches]

@motownplayer2000 those are all awesome examples that people never think of. It really shows were people's priorities are in life especially americans lol

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches “anything is better than capitalism”?

Please give me an example of a successful communist regime were people were not oppressed and murdered.

Seriously why is that so many people tried to escape the heinous regimes of Cuba, the late Soviet Union (which is recently reinvigorated), North Korea and the PRC? Why do people complain about America yet so many people want to live here?

Capitalism isn’t perfect. Never will be. But overall it HAS improved the quality of life more most people far and wide.

[vald9inches]

@globetrotter22 why are you parroting arguments against communism when you know that you didn't do any research on those topics? First of all those countries you listed are socialist countries, there has never been a communist country. Also if america fails as a country (which it really does fail especially every 10 years with a bubble bursting) does that mean capitalism has failed? If any X capitalist country fails does that mean capitalism has failed? You can see how dumb of an argument that is right?

Second of all capitalism aka united states of america has killed more people than any socialist or communist country by faaar and continues to do so and is one of the most oppressive countries in the WORLD IN HISTORY! How can you not see that?

Third all those stories you hear of people escaping x country and wildly exaggerated and in fact people are escaping the US and going to live in other countries by the thousands. Also not to mention all the people that get out of the US to take advantage of better and more affordable health care and dentistry in other countries, famously Canada and Mexico.

Communism is not perfect and never will be but it will lift humanity out of this dark age and make us a multi planet species and the quality of life and humanity will be vastly superior to capitalism that is guaranteed.

Capitalism was useful after feudalism thats for sure! It had its place but now it is definitely out living that place and its usefulness and is no longer needed. We need a humane economic system that is better aligned with modern times, technology, and especially automation otherwise there will be massive inequality and human suffering never before seen around the world and thats ignoring climate change in the future which will also destroy life as we know it for a long time.

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches “ Second of all capitalism aka united states of america has killed more people than any socialist or communist country by faaar ”

Do you have statistics from a non partisan source on that?

[vald9inches]

Do you have any statistics for your claim that x socialist/communist killed more people than all of capitalism

[vald9inches]

I can gladly give you statistics if you give me some too! 😊

[vald9inches]

@globetrotter22 also we might want to take this to our own opinion and not drive @KrisPW crazy with notifications lol

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches fair enough. Feel free to friend me and DM me.

[globetrotter22]

@vald9inches so what kind of utopia do you exactly have in mind?

America is far from perfect. But again why do so many people want to move here vs. move out?

[NamerOfStars]

Emphatically not. Primarily because a loan industry that knows that its assets can be canceled at any time with no warning or compensation is a loan industry that will be INCREDIBLY conservative about lending money in the future (essentially wiping out people's ability to GET loans, unless they're very rich), but also because it's putting even more power in the hands of the government: telling people that they don't have to solve their own problems is only to make things worse.

What needs to be done is less at the bureaucratic and more at the social levels: stop the devaluation of college degrees, and start hiring people who don't have them. Starve the beast, and make it change its behavior. Ending student loans would kill it outright, and we'd lose any potential benefits we get from it.

[lightbulb27]

I assume the justification of this is so many got free handouts by way of the printing press (bailouts of FI's, businesses, etc..), that fed rising costs (as does anything govt touches), and so we should bailout students whom have hard time getting jobs to pay for those loans.

I'd say maybe, but probably not. I didn't agree with the other bailouts but they got them.

I don't know enough to say yes or to whom it would apply.
Everytime we do this, govt gets involved... prices go up which makes bigger mess. Get govt out of stuff... prices go down...

[megabamse]

I take it your American? We get paid to go to school here. And if we need more then what they pay we can take a loan, and it's max 100.000$ over the course of 8 years we can get, if we pass our classes we get a 30% discount. We don't pay in it til 1 year after, and we don't pay on it til we get a job. After that we pay just a little bit or months, but with option to pay more. The intrest is low, and we have 75 weeks (total) of breaks from the loan that we can use it needed, like if we can't pay that month or months.

[Slartybartfast]

I'm getting close to 1000 credit hours , at first I took out small loans (which I paid off years ago) then I figured out the "system" and got paid to go.

I do think the government should refinance at the same rate the banks got the money from them (%1 interest or less) it's really not fair to give banks our money at near zero interest and then have them turn around and gouge students for what has become a deliberate barrier to prevent the poor and middle class from competition with the wealthy students who don't have to work while going to school.

Remember most job's that require degrees didn't require them when the boomers were taking those same jobs.

[Drumlin2001]

In UK you have to earn a certain amount before you start repaying, and it's wiped out after 30 years or so.
Persoanlly I think it ought to be split into 2 categories, tuition expenses and living expenses. If tuition isn't paid off and there's no prospect of it being paid off then sure write it off. But I think the living expenses should be paid. Why should someone live for free for 3 years? We all gotta pay those bills.
I also think there's an issue in the UK of pushing too many people to go to uni. It's not for everyone, and we ought to be encouraging more apprenticeships and vocational training.

[Anonymous]

Abolish college entirely… get athletes into the minor leagues, and get people into the workforce as soon as possible. Teach them practical skills. Invest in the arts and creative programs. We should just be spending our time learning and earning a living, not digging ourselves into a hole just to work our way out of it. That is, IF people are even able to earn a decent living afterward. College is a glorified scam to a lot of people.

The current system does nothing but hold people back. You’re developing on someone else’s terms and time clock, not your own, and THEY benefit most. It’s soul sucking.

[Rei02]

It is supposed that education should be a right, education is a benefit for a society, but there are contradictions. Why are university charges so expensive?, shouldn't there be scholarships instead of student loans?, why are the school charge fess get more expensive as time passes by?, what will happen if the student flunked out or stop going on to the school?, what if students can't pay them?

[joeldalton]

University charges are expensive because the government backs the loans to go to college.

[monorprise]

1: @joeldalton addressed why its soo expensive, in every business you charge as much as people are willing to pay. That is how market value is established, unfortunately when the Government gives we the tax payer no choice but to pay those rates go thou the roof.
This is as true of healthcare via 'insurance' tax subsides and mandates as it is education.

2: Yes, it is a conflict of interest to let the school issue loan to students for their own services at the credit of a 3rd party. Naturally the school just wants the money so they have ever reason in the world to drag out the "education" and dumb down its value as to get students to need to come back. The only thing they risk is "reputation" which in the modern world is easy rigged with advertising and cherry picked numbers.

3: Many students do in fact end up flunking out and this is where much of the student dept comes from. For the school this is the best sort of customer as they don't actually have to give them the product of a certification deflating the value of their degree yet still get much if not most of the money.

4: Under the current system as Congress has fronted the money for the loan on the backs of we the Tax payer, we end up assuming the dept after a comparatively short amount of time.

[joeldalton]

@monorprise let's not forget that these loans are issued without collateral. If you don't pay your car payment or your mortgage, the bank can reposses the items you purchased. They can't unlearn you.

[monorprise]

@joeldalton This is true, but even in such situations the bank takes a huge loss on the house because they have to sell it as a foreclosure and a repossessed car is even worse. The Standards for credit are high to hedge the bank bet. The same is true of any other loan the bank might issue, you have to make the case you can repay the money and for business loans that means convening the bank your idea is viable.

In education the school does almost none of this, they offer art's and English degrees for which there are no jobs unless you happen to be that exceptionally talented individual.

Wasting years of a persons life and 10s if not hundreds of thousands of dollars, that in the case of Government backed loans often ends up on the tax payers back.

[vald9inches]

@joedalton also dont forget that every industry benefits from a more educated workforce especially society as a whole. For them to expect profit from the investment into society is very risky and reckless its like building a park or a statue or a bridge and trying to profit from that. Not only is it unethical it also stagnates progress. Also i would argue that banking institutions are much like landlords they contribute nothing to society and only leach of it by lending or renting what they own and when they own a lot they have a monopoly on those goods

[joeldalton]

@vald9inches If your education isn’t important enough to you for you to pay for it, it’s certainly not that important to me.

[monorprise]

@vald9inches You can measure the value of a bridge by its use and there are a great many very successful toll bridges and roads including the famous Golden Gate.
Every industry might just as much benefit from an infusion of the same cash by which they might offer training in the actually needed skills to 4+ people for the amount of time and money spent on the university for 80% unneeded skilled to 1.

This is the problem with public education investment in today's world, there are still some skills like reading, writing, and civics still broadly useful mostly on the account of things we must do to acquire other skills as well as operate everywhere else in life.
While most modern jobs require very spesfic skills in very spesfic areas with relatively little else being of use.

Our one size fits all university system offers broad degree programs but even with and assuming they are targeted to actually needed areas of the job market, 80% of what you learn in theses schools never get used again.

So the university system is an extremely inefficient method of education designed for a very different far more simple world and sort of elite class of people. Think old Roman/Spanish imperial model where such broadly educated elites generally ran everything in a world who's technology was relatively simple.

[vald9inches]

@monorprise well i can definitely agree with you on that the education system is grossly inefficient. We definitely need a better more modern system of education for all

[Mickbert]

Let me start by saying I paid off my tens of thousands in student loans already. Secondly, there needs to be better loan management courses BEFORE you sign on the dotted line. Lastly, I do think they should be forgiven IF you graduate AND get a job in your field of study. If we just forgive all loans then someone can take out hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans to go to school and party and then not learn a thing and all is forgiven. I’d rather my tax dollars pay for the people who are contributing to society in the field they studied regardless of the field.

[Smoke-n-Growls]

Yeah, especially if we're talking current US student debt.

Who will lose out? The banks and institutions that provide those loans have been making record profits and been getting billions in government assistance.

They can clearly afford it.

[Aerissa_Jade]

The people worked two or three jobs to pay their loans off early during the pandemic, suffering extreme health, stressed and other effects will also lose out, now they'll be pissed that they could of just ignored the loans had them forgiven later.

[Smoke-n-Growls]

Oh no, other people will benefit while I struggled! My experience was terrible but I have to make sure they suffer, too!

Do you realize that's what you're saying?

I've had many instances where I pay for others to benefit - would it be good if I got those benefits, too? Yes. But will I deny it to others because it's "unfair"? No.

That's a Boomer mindset.

[Aerissa_Jade]

Sad to say seems Boomers are more about being fair than other generations. Current generations are all about me, give me free stuff.

I say just give every citizen that amount, so like 10k or 50k give it to every citizen and auto apply it to student loans first.

That is the best way to do it, no one gets any more 'free' stuff than anyone else, fair and balanced.

Sorry if I sound like a boomer I'm all about being fair. It isn't about making someone else suffer it is about making lazy ass people who refuse to pay it back do what they voluntarily agreed to do with no escape routes.

Every single person who wants it forgiven is a lazy ass who doesn't want to work hard to repay it. One can already have them forgiven, if you make your payments for 20 years... then the rest is forgiven. But they don't want to work is the problem.

[Smoke-n-Growls]

Lmao, you are so out of touch for your age. It's worrying.

[Aerissa_Jade]

Sorry you don't believe in being fair. Have a nice day.

[northwestripper666]

@Smoke-n-Growls Like Trump said, "I hope we never find life on another planet because if we do there's no doubt that the United States will start sending them money!" Orangeman Rad - #fjb Trump 2024

[vald9inches]

@Smoke-n-Growls thank fucking god thank you thank you!! Someone with some actually braincells instead of all these idiots here! Thank you! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[Smoke-n-Growls]

@vald9inches Lol, aw, thanks, mate. Yeah, most of the userbase is idiots - but sometimes we get good folks. Hope you have a great day! ♥️

[vald9inches]

I would argue they are brainwashed masochistic americans but i would be splitting hairs and just agree to calling them idiots lol 😂 you too beautiful you have an amazing day and don't ever lose your humanity to money! ❤️

[Aerissa_Jade]

@vald9inches Ah a fucking lazy person, wants something free... no surprise there.

[vald9inches]

Yea thats you! Lol your so blind with greed and envy and uncompassion that you do not see all the free things you are getting living in modern society

[vald9inches]

@Aerissa_Jade do you think your mom or dad insulted you put you down when you were just a little baby sucking milk out of your mother's breast calling you lazy or a freeloader?

[Aerissa_Jade]

@vald9inches You are the one who started insulting everyone here, I NEVER start insulting I only return the favor, fucker.

[Aerissa_Jade]

@vald9inches There isn't a single FREE thing I have ever got, I have worked my ass off for everything.

Unlike lazy ass people like you... who don't know how to read a loan agreement. Maybe people should be required to read before they can go to college.

[vald9inches]

You got your moms breast milk free or are you so full of yourself that you actually think you earned your mom's breast milk? Lmfao 😂😂🤣🤣🤣

[vald9inches]

@Aerissa_Jade lmfao go ahead and block me it just makes you look like an idiot that can't argue your points because you know i am right

[Squaresquirrel]

No, if you were stupid enough to take out a student loan to go for a gender studies or a liberal arts degree, you should pay for it.
Useful degrees that actually contribute to the world like medical ones should be forgiven and in the UK nursing degrees should be made free.

[vald9inches]

Your username is square squirrel i dont think you should decide what is stupid and what is not if you want someone to blame for those courses blame the school that provided them and profited off the people and the bank that offers those predatory loans to pay for those courses

[Squaresquirrel]

@vald9inches Your username is as equally stupid, so why don't you keep quiet?
Gender studies degree? Pay for it fully if you were that idiotic.

[vald9inches]

Yes it is stupid but i am not the one saying other peoples education choices are stupid you are

[vald9inches]

People study what they want to study what they are passionate about what they want to learn more about there is nothing stupid about learning

[Squaresquirrel]

@vald9inches there is something stupid aboutit if you need to take a student loan

[vald9inches]

Yea i agree education should be free because everyone as a society benefits from that