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No man should ever be allowed to tell a women what to do with her body EVER. We are in 2022 and somehow we are going back in time with these stupid acts. A man should support whatever a woman decides. PERIOD
Fine, simp. No woman should ever be able to tell a man what to do with his money EVER.
@msc545 agreed SIMP
If you mean should a specific woman require the permission from a specific man (e. g., her husband, father, etc.) for a reproductive healthcare choice, then absolutely not.
If you mean should women in general be subject to the laws of the land as determined by the electorate and should men be "allowed" to vote on such issues, then ab-so-fucking-lute-ly.
So, in that case if all women voted that men would need permission to masturbate so that the health of their sperm or any potential children or not lost. You'd be the first in line to wave the banner of our rights to control your body just because we voted on it?
You're damn right I would! But guess what. . . GUYS can vote too! And there aren't enough asexual guys to vote with the anti-jacking ladies for that to pass.
But yes. . . you understand how voting in a democracy works. Very good!
Doesn't require the entire country to vote for that. Abortion rights are actually in the majority support, it just requires getting your people in long enough to appoint the right judges it seems.
No--it doesn't require the entire country to vote for it. It requires state legislatures to vote for it. Abortion policy is determined at the state level by the people's elected representatives.
Also, from what I understand, there isn't a huge difference in how women vote on abortion restriction and how men vote on it anyway.
And with how gerrymandering works in some places it makes a fair vote nearly impossible to get the will of the people heard.
There is no good solution so rather than take away a right for a woman to chose you leave it as is.
It's all part of the democratic process in the US. The Dems control both houses of Congress and the Presidency. So if there's interest in passing a federal law it'll get done. If not, the states have the right to legislate as they wish. It's how our system works.
I'd say no. Women should have the final say to their own body, like how men have the final say to our own body. I'd be devastated if women have a say in what happens to my balls.
If it concerns our children's lives you bet your ass we should get a say. Thats the part you ladies all seem to gloss over. When it comes to your body I don't care what you do. But when you are talking about abortion it's the child's body we are concerned about.
This is just my opinion but if two people are having consensual sex then the conversation should be just as consensual about the outcome. The thing is either of the two can just say no to having sex. If they decide to have sex and it is consensual then the outcome from that should be just as consensual.
As I said, just my opinion.
Abortion is one of the most barbaric acts I have ever seen. I firmly put this in the same moral category as slavery and 100 years from now I believe it will be looked back on as such. I believe both parties should be held responsible for unplanned pregnancies and I want to see a complete overhaul and streamlining of our adoption processes and laws. There is a drastic increase in infertility and plenty of families to adopt children in need of a home.
When I was growing up, it seemed like woman had absolute authority over men's developmental and reproductive health. A man's testicles belonged too his wife upon consummation of that marriage certificate.
Since when? Have you ever heard of religious chastity belts?
Um, okay, so you want to know whether fathers should have any rights with respect to their unborn children (i. e., when they are in the womb), but you don't want anyone to consider ANY of the other things that come afterward which are so obviously related. Fucking brilliant you are. And so intellectually honest. I'll best you're a feminist. Am I right?
Do you people really and truly not understand why men have zero respect for you?
it takes 2 to tango. Except in the case of rape, they made the decision to bump uglies together. Of course they should decide TOGETHER whether to murder their unborn child or not. It's not the woman's baby, it's THEIR baby that's growing inside of her.
If it isn't THEIRS, then the law shouldn't be out there requiring men to pay child support if they don't stay together and the woman keeps the baby.
If you don't want men to have a say, then don't expect the man to provide if he didn't want the child, to begin with. If you think it's cruel for a man to have a right to what you do to your womb, then it is also cruel to force a man into becoming a father (and providing) against his will. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Men already do have a say, but it doesn't mean anything lol, always gonna have simps bending the laws so you ladies can keep fucking losers and then shunning the responsibilities of your consequences, and before you say rape and incest I say bullshit. That's the least likely reason y'all get abortions. Let's be real. And this obviously applies to the horrendous women who do all this, not the one's who don't, some of you have brains luckily, can't speak for most of the other women so much though.
Yeah, if that touches the health of this man's child. Because it's equally his child. It's not his fault he can't let a child grow in his body. Why should her right to be healthy be granted when the babies right it's taken?
This only can be over ridden by marriage. Even then neither parties should be forced into something they feel is wrong..
I like your update. Makes you wonder are they prepared to pay for the abortion..
Yes. This isn't a question of "women's reproductive healthcare choices", it's a question of the rights of the unborn. Men have every right to voice their opinions about this as EQUAL CITIZENS of the United States, not some underclass.
Also, women get a say on whether or not I get my genitalia mutilated at birth without my consent, just saying.
There are certain things that aren't equal in life. When 95% of single parents are women, not men. It is women who ultimately suffer the burden of the consequences of unwanted pregnancy, not men. A woman should have the ultimate say in whether or not she wants to spend the rest of her life as a single parent.
There is no equality under raising children. Child rearing has always been throughout history including modern day , a womans job. Anytime a child is born, the sole responsibility falls on the mother. In the case of an illegitimate birth of a child, 95% of the time , its the woman who raises the child. Most single moms dont even receive child support
@shaysh87 84%, actually. Also, only men are subject to the draft (and conscription in many countries), represent 98% of combat deaths, and are the overwhelming majority of the military (85%+). Should women not be allowed to have a word on military affairs, then? Men are FAR more affected by it.
You weren't asking me this question, but I actually believe that the draft is unethical and should be abolished.
Also, when it comes to circumcision, parents are legally responsible for you, so they do get the right to have legal operations performed on your body without your permission. As a child, your parents can force you to get a vaccine even if you're terrified of needles. I don't think it's fair to compare that with abortion as most pregnant women are full grown adults who are responsible for their own body AND the potential baby that could be born. However this is not to say that I'm pro circumcision, I'm mostly neutral on that topic.
In 99.9% of abortions, it is not "healthcare".
@Sarahnah That was not my question. You said abortion impacts women more - military questions affect men way more (the draft literally ONLY affects men) - should women ever have a say in it - yes or no? Be consistent.
@Opinion owner,
99.99% of all wars are started by men, not women. Men are the more violent aggressive gender. If men start a war, its up for men to die in the war. Women shouldn't have to die in a war that they never started
@shaysh87 You're still not answering the question. Gonna give it one more shot then I'm out (because you're either being obnoxious on purpose or you're just that illiterate). Should women be allowed to vote on and have opinions on the draft and military affairs? You said men don't get to do that with abortion because it does not affect them. The draft does not affect women - should they ever have a say on it?
Not all military affairs include the draft. In fact we haven't had one in the US for decades. Those who willingly sign up for the military signed up to become soldiers who fight on behalf of the nation. With that in mind, all politicians responsible, male or female get to have a say in what military affairs the soldiers get involved in. It's what they signed up for, to become weapons used by the government to defend the country's interests.
Forced military service however (the draft), should probably be abolished because not even male politicians should be able to sacrifice other men's bodies by force. Just like how a woman shouldn't be able to force another woman to have/not have an abortion.
@Opinion owners,
[You're still not answering the question. Gonna give it one more shot then I'm out (because you're either being obnoxious on purpose or you're just that illiterate). Should women be allowed to vote on and have opinions on the draft and military affairs? You said men don't get to do that with abortion because it does not affect them. The draft does not affect women - should they ever have a say on it?]
we, as a human population, have no right to vote for a draft. Draft comes from the power of the government and congress / judicial courts.
@Opinion owner,
the reality is, men are the ones who start 99% of all wars and violence in the world. Take a look at crime statistics, vast majority of robbers, serial killers, murderers, fraudsters, child molesters are men. If anyone has to be drafted , it should be men.
Women have the biggest say in men's reproductive issues actually by giving or not them pussy. Eveyone seems to be forgetting the consenting to sex part in this whole abortion brouhaha.
If a woman and a man are in a committed relationship, questions about her healthcare should be discussed between the two of them. However, the woman is the one that should always make the decisions concerning what happens within her body.
This question is based entirely on the false belief that men have the same legal rights as women, obviously we don't.
No. I think it’s something that nobody really gets a say in. It’s personal.
Women get to solely decide for men whether they will be a parent or not, it is literally the same thing.
Your failure to acknowledge this injustice is a good example of why you feminists are all full of shit.
Did he decide to put his dick in her? Congrats he made a decision to potentially be a father.
Your failure to acknowledge this basic fact is a good example why you should think things through before you try to sound smart on one of my posts.
"Did he decide to put his dick in her?"
Did she decide to let his dick in her?
Congrats she made a decision to potentially be a mother.
It's literally the same thing, except there is a double standard in favor of women and nobody cares about the man's right.
She sure did so now they are equal. Whats your gripe?
They are not equal at all.
Should she choose to not accept that responsibility, she has the freedom to do so via abortion.
Does the man have the same right?
CAN the man choose to not accept responsibility should he find himself in a situation where he can't afford to have a child in his life for whatever reason?
Yeah.. he can choose not to have sex if he can't afford it. Thats what guys tell women all the time right? Works both ways. Use your hand and find some alone time to yourself and you never have to worry about kids.
The pregnancy affects her body. That is not something a man has to experience at all. If biological men can get pregnant then you'd have equal standing, but they can't so you have no say in that part of it. If your complaint is strictly financial then please read my question update.
She should have chosen not to have sex and then she wouldn't have to worry about her bodily autonomy.
Just for the record, I'm fully in support of abortion.
What I'm not in support of is your failure to recognize that you are privileged.
Try being on this side. Try looking at this poll where nearly 40 men think they should control a woman's right to choose. Try experiencing half the things we are supposedly privileged on and then come back and have this conversation
Abortion should be legal in every country on this planet, men should only advice their girl and final decision should be solely hers only
However you feel about abortion, claiming that a demographic of people cannot speak or have an opinion on a subject is a losing argument in a free society. Stronger arguments should be pursued.
The GOP doesn't care, all they care about is getting their core fired up.
"Men" no but the father definitely yes he should have an opinion that has weight that can't just be ignored.
I'm pro-choice but agree, the father should be able to have an opinion, but I think the final decision does come down to the woman though.
So the man's opinion is basically pointless? If he says personally I think we should have the child because I love you and want a family. She could Completey disregard that and say "I love you too but I am not having this baby. The abortion is happening." And all is supposed to be done and that's it? The man must say "ok, hunny." And that's that? That sounds like a right a man doesn't have that he should. Maybe they should duke it put in court like they would in a divorce.
That is a silly idea as court cases can drag on before they are even heard further delaying the abortion and putting strain on the woman's body. There is a clock they are working with and once the cells become viable to survive on their own outside the woman in my opinion it is too late to abort.
So basically yeah, if he wants it then he better make sure she wants it too before having sex. Otherwise its her call and her body and he gets no say other than giving an opinion. He can't force her to have it.
Alright. Than that is why I am never having sex with a woman. Because I have no say in the matter, I will never give a woman the chance to utilize a right I do not get to have.
Sounds like its a win-win all around then.
Guess so 🤷🏻♂️
Just my opinion, but I think consenting to sex with a man is also consenting to his involvement with decisions regarding a pregnancy as a result of the consensual sex.
Still doesn't give him license to make a decision concerning what she chooses, just he is welcome to an opinion which she can choose to listen to
I guess it all hinges on when you consider the baby to be a life. At that point, I believe both parents have equal say in the decision of the child's welfare.
Do I smell double standards? Don't woman always tell their husbands "you can't eat this, it is bad for your blood pressure" = have a say in man's dietary health choices?
They can have an opinion but they should not imply that opinion on you and should not be the ones to decide what a woman does with her body.
The man is also responsible for the soul of the child. So he deserves to have a say.
Yes if that girl / woman is my girlfriend or wife. Abortion is non religious, unnatural, crime and dangerous. Giving a girl a power to abort a child is like giving her power to be slut or whore, power to hookup.
So basically the same power a guy already has?
I never got my power card... Would you happen to know where I can get it?
Yes we have the power. 😆😅😂🤣
Dave and Busters sells them for their arcades.
@ez-bri-z are you single mom? Single moms are hot. I want to date you.
Both parties decided to have sex without protection to prevent pregnancy, therefore both parties have a say in the matter of abortion.
So in that same thought, a woman should be able to tell a man to go get a vasectomy and force him to have one just to prevent pregnancy even if it is a one night stand then?
No, because there were other options of preventing pregnancy.
So it is hypocrisy then you opt for. You want a say in how women need to mess up their bodies with birth control but not for women tell you how to stop pregnancies with your own body
I never said she had to be on the pill, don't put words in my mouth. There is a thing called the "condom" ever heard of it? Its a cheep little thing that goes over the guys penis to catch the invaders. Also its as simple as DON'T HAVE SEX unless your ready for the responsibility that sex brings.
If you are married, both should be on the same page / agree / work it out (as best you can).
If you are single, do what you want….. but if you do what you want and your partner/SO doesn’t agree with your decision, you can’t hold that person accountable for anything.
Uh thats gonna be a BIG maybe on what you mean by can't hold that person accountable for anything.
An example, the reverse to your question….. the guy wanted the female to get an abortion and she said no, I am going to have it. In this case the guy shouldn’t be required to pay anything or do anything, if that’s what he choses (it wouldn’t be my choice or action, just an example).
He has that choice but the courts aren't going to be ok with that just like they wouldn't be ok if the mom doesn't do her part in childcare either. The child support part of this argument is a cop out answer because it is the legal system keeping you from not paying.
So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that a female can say she doesn’t want the child (and abort it) even if the father doesn’t agree…. But if the father doesn’t agree to having it (want to abort it), and the female moves forward with the pregnancy (and has the child) then he should be forced to support it (even though he was opposed). Is that a correct assessment/summary of your thoughts/belief?
Horseshit and you know it. If the woman decides she doesn't want child support, the man does not have to pay it.
The sexual revolution and its cosnequences have been a disaster for the human race.
If women shouldn't be forced into motherhood, men shouldn't be forced into fatherhood. In other words, no, he shouldn't have a say-so in whether you kill it. But you shouldn't have a say-so in whether he pays.
If you believe you should have the right to affect his financial future, then he should have a right to affect your lifestyle future. And this isn't about Women's Healthcare Choices, so stop using that argument. You're making a lifestyle choice, plain and simple
As I said on another post, this is such a cop out answer.
Men whine and cry about child support and alimony and then try to place their own greed on women.
You are a father at the same point she is a mother. If she decides to terminate the pregnancy then congrats, you are off the hook.
If she doesn't, then she is just as responsible financially as he is, if not more, and she uses up more of her hours in a day caring for it. This is not even bringing up the physical toll it has on her body before and after birth.
Stop whining over a bit of your paycheck. If you want to avoid it, don't have sex. That's what guys always say about women having sex right? Just stop pressuring us to have it with you too.
It's not a cop out. Both people should be equally able to opt out of parenthood. Period. You just don't want to hear the argument because you have no sound reasoning against it.
I'm sure that if the courts saw fit to give custody to the father and make the mother pay him support, this would be a lot easier for you to understand
That does happen already and I already understand it.
Its still a copout answer.
Child support orders are not enforced against women even if they are issued.
Women get custody over 90% of the time, and men get child support orders at the same rate.
You can call it a cop out all you want. Just like you call killing children "women's healthcare". Whatever makes you feel better
Responding to your update:
You want an abortion why? Because you don't want to support a child. But banning abortions will force you to. If the man doesn't want to support the child, he doesn't have a choice. It's the same reasoning. So you're gonna have to come up with something better than "stop using that argument". You don't get to pick what I think and say
He has a choice. He just suffers consequences just like a woman would.
My argument is valid. You are just being a cheapskate and care more about controlling women and your paycheck than you do about the actual life of the child. Its simple
And what about you? What is your reason for wanting abortions? Oh, yeah, you don't want the expense and inconvenience of caring for a child, either. So you're just as much of a cheapskate, but at least I wouldn't kill my own child.
Wrong.
I'm actually not for abortions personally.
I'm for a woman's right to choose no matter her reasons.
And I'm not all for a man refusing to uphold his obligations, but I'm for a man's right to choose no matter his reasons
Women want both abortions on demand and child support on demand. Called having your cake and eating it too.
Then find a way for men to get pregnant and give up your bodies for nearly a year just so you have less to whine about when it comes to equality on that front
Make your own money and keep killing babies. I am past caring.
Wait a minute. I thought this whole discussion was about not getting pregnant, and the right to abort so you can go back to not being pregnant in case you get pregnant.
Where the hell does this "find a way for men to get pregnant" idea fit in?
Well they exist and have opinions, so yes. That’s going to continue to exist and it needs to be addressed. But secondly, it’s their genetic material too except it’s being carried by another person, that’s it’s own issues of rights.
Well, the almighty conundrum. Child support... So you wantz to off the child. Fine, then the dude is totally in his rights to not support said child if the woman wants to keep it.
Not unless he's my partner and we're married at the end of the day if I want it it's my child if he doesn't he just donated the 💦 I wouldn't even put his name on the birth certificate if he didn't want it
People should stay out of other people personal lives
No, as long as women have no say in men's financial decisions, like deciding to be fathers and paying them child support.
Yes, I would like a say if my wife is pregnant with our child on the care that child receives. Wouldn’t want her to go it alone.
Let me approach this from another direction. Indians did not have a conversation like this. Money did not exist.
Lol, of course not. They really never can as it is our body, and therefore always our choice.
I think we should all have a say in the life of an unborn child.
If he had his dick in your snatch , he has a say in the issue.
My sperm , my choice?
No. But men should have a say when it comes to money and wether they want to be a father
You want to get abortions, fine. But child support is very valid reason when it comes to abortion because men have no say. She can get an abortion without even telling the man. But if she keeps it, he's obligated to pay or be a father. We need equality there
The two aren't equal. She is just as responsible if not more so if she decides to keep it. That's where so many of you guys are getting a disconnect. You keep trying his financial responsibility to the abortion itself instead of to her financial responsibility. If she was making absolutely no money, didn't care for the child and STILL took his money THEN you'd have a more legitimate gripe
Yet you ignore the fact, she could get rid of that responsibility at any time and a man still has no say. But if she keeps it, he has to be financially responsible for that kid now?
And you're right. Men and women aren't equal. We're very different
If she gives up rights to the child he can too and they can give it up for adoption.
If she keeps it she is just as responsible as well as giving up her time on top of that.
If she's keeping it, who has to stay and help? And yes she is, but one is forced to help. Why can't you process that?
A man is not forced to stay and help. He can send a check and be done with his commitment. We don't always get that choice unless we put it up for adoption and we DEFINITELY don't get to just take off a pregnant stomach and hand it over when we want to. Womens commitment is MUCH greater than a man's. What don't you get about that?
Lady where have you been lately? Men can't just sign their rights away and that's it. He's obligated to pay for a kid until 18 years of age. Again she can terminate that responsibility and that's that. But men have to stay and help if she chooses to keep it. Women only want equality when it benefits them without having to deal with any responsibility
Yes we should and why you ask? Because you need sperm to become pregnant
@ez-bri-z where did this whole idea come from that men don’t care about our children is it because women fuck guys who are pieces of shit? And generalize all men? And yes we should have a say because pregnancy doesn’t fall out of the fucking sky
So you just generalized all women. Way to make your point..
Also you get an opinion, but you don't get to force a woman to do something she doesn't want
Oh I agree women should make their own decisions and pay the consequences
Also that’s not a generalization 90 percent of the women want 10 percent of the men why do you think women lose their virginity younger than men?
You aren't even getting your dating site informal poll statistics right. Supposedly it is 80/20 which is still BS.
Okay just forget about it then because you just it’s actually 80/20 and still called it bs you’re not even straight you don’t know
I'm polyamorous. I still date guys i just don't have sex with them.
So you just waste mens time basically 😂
Nope. I am always up front about it and still find guys to date anyway who don't care about the sex. It's more about the experience of a relationship which I can provide. Though admittedly there have been those who thought over time I'd give in and it's always been a no.
Ma’am that’s called a friendship not dating people usually court with the goal of marriage
That’s literally a waste of time for both parties involved
It works different when you are poly. I can't be married more than once. And I certainly don't do some of things I do in a relationship with just friends.
It's a relationship without sex or as some people call it..."year 10 into a marriage"
You sound like you’re in high school
How so?
Because grown women don’t do mess like that you’re too incompetent for a real relationship so you keep reserves to have something to fall back on you’re incapable of risk being alone and dating comfortably probably do to some type of trauma
Bruh.. I've been with my wife from dating and marriage for nearly 20 years. I'm pretty sure I'm set there. This isn't about a fall back plan, its just us exploring our own sexualities in different ways.
Again that’s how little girls behave your time for that was done when you got married and it shows that you aren’t truly committed
We are committed just fine. You know nothing of our marriage. If anything it's stronger because we implicitly trust the other one enough to let them go explore.
This isn’t about your marriage it’s about your character and immaturity
Whatever makes you feel better in the end. We are way off topic and im done talking to you about stuff you clearly don't understand and is way over your head.
If you want to talk about this posts' question I'll be glad to continue anything else outside it will be removed and ignored.
I think yes because men are responsible for making women pregnant.
There's no such thing as men and women that's what's liberals say lol.
Trans women are women.
Transwomen ARE women and I won't tolerate transphobia or any other kinds of hatred towards lgbt on my threads
I agree. With u lol. So that's why men should have opinion. You don't know what those men identify as
Reproductive rights is such a dishonest framing of what it is, you're killing babies, it's fucked up
Women have the right not to get pregnant... Why don't women actually take control over their reproductive systems and exercise that right and not get pregnant?
Now we can identify what a women is? What about pregnant men?
Well once you let a dick in your pussy there so many things that can go wrong. So i think it best to stay out till the one who want to marry
I think so especially if he's willing to take Full Responsibility for the baby she was going to abort. She could sign the rights over to him.
I would even agree with that, but the problem is that the baby is a helpless life
Abortion is murder and is not a reproductive decision. The decision to reproduce happens before pregnancy begins. Birth control or abstinence.
Wrong but you are welcome to your opinion. Abortion is removing a clump of cells similar to cancer. Some women are not given that choice of abstinence and is another reason abortion is an important step in their Healthcare needs.
I guarantee if men had to carry babies their tunes would change in a heartbeat.
I see women are still trying to dodge the responsibility from making a decision to open their legs 🤣
All these comments prove is that women are selfish and want to be absolved of any responsibility from opening their legs.
There are many preventative mrausres out there that stop pregnancy yet you still ended up pregnant. Amazing.
How about if you don't want a baby. Just keep your legs closed. It's that simple
And what about in cases where they were forced open against our will?
Yeah rarely.
But usually the woman is just selfish and doesn't want to give up living her best life to raise a child
@Lofii crickets of course
It is wrong of anyone to kill a human being.
That really wasn't the question but thank you for the response
Wasn't your question about abortion?
Not specifically
But he doesn't have a say legally.
Men can get pregnant today so I’m not sure why this is a men vs women thing.
Whats the point? Thats a man talking about his own reproductive health care
If men can get pregnant men can get abortions right? Which means that the attack on the right to choose in not just an attack on woman’s rights but on men’s rights also. It’s an attack on the rights of people who are able to give birth regardless of their gender.
Sure but then it derails from the original topic where I'm now fighting transphobes on top of the whole abortion debate. Not a conversation I'm willing to do right now.
I acknowledge transgender men can get pregnant and so therefore are not being excluded in thought only in name.
I feel like we are being excluded by thought if we’re being excluded by name.
My apologies then. Not the intention.
Fuck no
Nope :)
Men can get pregnant too.
😂😂😂
women don't know when to keep their legs closed...