Should men ever have a say in a woman's reproductive healthcare choices when women have no say in theirs?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Yes, this was inspired by the numerous posts about Roe v Wade today, but this isn't specifically on whether or not you think abortion should be legal or not. This is strictly about whether men should even get a say about what a woman chooses to do with her own body when they are not the ones forced to give up their body's health to carry a child.

Men at one time even had a say on whether women could have their tubes tied, but despite rumors of spousal approval being needed for a vasectomy, it wasn't true the other way around.

And just in case one of you brings this up, no this doesn't count if she has a male primary health care provider.

Yes

No

Updates

+1 y

So many guys keep bringing up child support which has nothing to do with what the question was. If your mindset is trading off not paying child support for women getting abortions, can we just stop pretending you care at all about the baby and instead are just wanting to control women's lives because something is out of your control?

[Anonymous]

Men absolutely should not have a say in the reproductive choices of women. Allow me to make two arguments.

First, vaginas and penises are called reproductive organs. That’s what they’re there for. They’re not toys for your entertainment pleasure, nor are they vital to your physical sustenance. Every time you choose to have heterosexual intercourse using your reproductive organs, you do so with the knowledge that pregnancy is a potential outcome. In fact, pregnancy is the primary. purpose of those organs. If we choose to proceed despite the risks, we can and often do mitigate the risks through physical and chemical barriers (i. e., birth control devices). Both the man and the woman accept the risks and choose the barriers. They are choices. Deciding to proceed is also a choice. With the exception of rape, no man makes those choices for the women. At that point a mutual decision is made; the risk is taken. If pregnancy results, it is an outcome that the woman knew was possible and accepted as a risk. Pregnancy includes carrying a child in your body until birth. Again, a known risk. No man forced the woman to make the choice. However, if you propose that a woman has a choice after the pregnancy has occurred, then you are suggesting termination of the pregnancy (the risk) after the risk was accepted. It’s also the willful termination of a human life. Morally, that’s not a choice. That standard is true for a woman or a man.

As an analogy, think about boarding an airplane. Each time you take a flight there is some risk the airplane will crash. It’s rare but it happens. You make a choice to board and fly anyway. You could argue that you should have a parachute in case the plane begins to unexpectedly hurdle toward the ground. Only in rare cases does a pilot/passenger have legal access to a parachute however. So when the door of the plane is closed before takeoff, you’ve made a decision to take a risk. It can’t be undone or reconsidered just because something goes awry.

As a second argument, perhaps neither women nor men should have make decisions about their reproductive healthcare. Perhaps all healthcare decisions should be left to the government. For example, the government could force individuals to take vaccines. Some of those vaccines could sterilize certain populations that would be considered less desirable. Health care could be similarly rationed via government health care systems so that certain groups could be favored over the weak or elderly or unborn. A reward/penalty system could be devised to encourage or discourage certain sexual behavior or practices, including family size. If you’ve read this far and found this to be abhorrent, you understand the sarcasm.

Thanks for asking this question. And thanks for cleverly trying to hide the moral issues. Rights aren’t rights when they are wrong.

[atiquahbby]

I voted no for two reasons. I believe that women have the rights to their own body but under the condition that the fetus does not have cognitive brain activity. From a scientific perspective, if the fetus has cognition, it falls under the argument of whether or not it is moral and it should not be up for debate for a change of mind.
Secondly, if the fetus is not of that stage yet, then it is the woman's body and her right to choose what she wants in her womb.

So the question is two foldered. Why do men think that they have to be part of it?

If it is for scientific reason that the fetus is viable outside the womb, then it should not be up for debate anyway. So if men just want to be part of it because they feel they are missing out, then it is simply just a means of asserting authority on someone else's body.

If men want kids, they have other options. Forcing one person to sacrifice their body for many months to have a child against their will shouldn't even be an option or part of a discussion anymore.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Perfect answer. I dont really like the idea of abortion itself but ill support a woman's choice to have one up through when the fetus is viable to survive outside the womb which is around week 23ish.

Men should be able to have an opinion but no say in what a woman chooses to do.

[lofii]

If only that poor unborn child could voice its opinion about it being aborted too

[Ez-Bri-Z]

It would probably thank them for not bringing it up in a neglectful or abusive home where it wasn't wanted, it didn't have to starve, or be shipped off somewhere and live in an orphanage where it would go unadopted especially in cases where it is a person of color as so often happens.

[lofii]

Or they can just keep their legs closed and retain their dignity as a woman and individual.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Their dignity remains unchanged whether they have sex or not. Stop shaming women for having sex

[lofii]

I will when y'all stop killing kids in the name of living your best life

[Sarahnah]

@lofii Why do you care about the "kids" when they're undeveloped, unconscious in the womb, and lack the brain development to process pain but you suddenly stop caring about the kids once they're born, fully conscious and capable of feeling the pain they'll go through from being raised by parents who were not ready for them? Did you know that according to a Freakonomics study, banning abortion increases the crime rate years later? Women who are denied an abortion are more likely to be unemployed, on welfare, and are more likely to suffer from domestic violence. Clearly these women won't be providing the ideal environment for our future generations to be raised in.

[lofii]

@Sarahnah or y'all can just keep your legs closed.

[Sarahnah]

@lofii... So you don't actually care about the kids. You just care about closing women's legs, even to the point you're willing to bring up more kids into poverty, throw them in jail when they turn to drugs and commit crime, drain the welfare system, and damage the economy and society as a whole. All so that you can stop people from having sex. Okay. Cool.

If promiscuity is what you're concerned about, I think you should be more focused on culture, not abortion. It's the cultural attitudes that people have towards sex that makes them have it. Even if you ban abortion, there will still be condoms, pills, vasectomy, sex without intercourse, etc. People will find ways to have casual sex, especially if they live in an area with a sexually liberal culture.

[lofii]

@Sarahnah never said I didn't care about them. Stop putting words in my mouth.

But it's clear that many modern women don't care seeing as how they just let every nigga have a turn in their pussy like a merry go round

[atiquahbby]

@lofii As I said, I specifically refer to the absence of cognitive brain in my argument. The 'poor unborn child' would have no voice because it doesn't even have consciousness yet. So please stop trying to use emotive language when appealing to facts. Absence of brain activity is the legal and medical definition of death, hence without the presence of brain activity the fetus is not at the stage of being a human life yet.
by the way, I believe in abstinence and sex after marriage, I am saying the case which fits all. Afterall, my opinion on the issue is irrelevant to the factual stance.

[atiquahbby]

@Sarahnah Exactly my thoughts. I believe in sex after marriage too, but abortion is a whole other issue. Just because I have a personal opinion about something, it doesn't mean I would go around making a legislation on what others should and should not do with their bodies. I understand if people say that after the fetus displays neurotransmission of electrical synapses (has reflex) it is immoral to have an abortion, I know I would never do it for myself after that point unless in extreme circumstances. But if it is before consciousness, I personally don't understand why people feel they need to dictate how others should live.

[atiquahbby]

@Ez-Bri-Z Exactly, thank you

[Anonymous]

To some degree yes, in the same way society has a say on what we all do to our bodies. It is federal law to wear a seatbelt on the road. It is also a law to not drink or be under the influence of any drugs when operating an automobile. It is illegal to do various drugs. Its a matter of opinion on weather it's only "her body" that is affected in things like abortion. I would say actions are not free from consequences and abortion should be illegal. Its not for the reasons of control or punishment this should be the case. It is simply because you are taking the life of a baby. You are killing your own flesh and blood. Imho if you do such a thing you're no better then the people locked up in death row. You're the same kind of evil and such evil people should not have the ability to freely roam civilized society.

I believe that both the woman who got the abortion and the man who got her pregnant should be punished harshly so there is no dispute that this is some attempt to control women. By allowing women the right to sleep with who they want to sleep with, when they want to sleep with them we have given them free will to choose. What they do after that is all on them. As far as I'm concerned the baby has it's own body and while it might be seen as an inconvenience to some very despicable females the fact remains they already made their choice. The argument often is "they'll get the abortion anyways and could die in a backroom botched abortion" to which I say; "A life for a life, if she's willing to kill her own flesh and blood then why should I view her life as having any value at all, the life of a baby killer no less"?

I dont view abortion as bodily autonomy I view it as an attempt to have freedom of consequences. No human being on this earth should ever have freedom of consequences. I believe swift justice should be executed upon all who do ill in this world. I would treat a woman who aborted a fetus for the sake of convenience as no different then any other violent criminal. The excuse is "women are often pressured by men". To which I remind people that we are supposed to be assuming men and women are equal. She's an adult who consented, period. Yes the guy is a jackass for pressuring her but she always had the ability to say NO. To try to make up any other excuse would be an admission she and/or women are not the equals of men because they need to be handled with kid gloves for their decisions. Only way I could see any argument for an abortion is rape or a life threatening emergency. Statistics say that roughly 98% of abortions are done as a result of casual sex. Therefore 98% of women who get abortions are no good, dirty scum that deserve severe jail time, 10 years or more. Same goes for the men if they willingly participated in the murder of their own kids.

[StrongMale]

Yes, of course.. unless the woman was impregnated by a martian.

Far too often it is completely ignored that pregnancy doesn’t happen without a man. Yes, I know, it’s a shocker, but it’s the inconvenient truth. No male = no sperm to fertilize the female egg. And because the potential human would not be possible without him, and is as much a part of him as it is of her, he should obviously and certainly have some input. Now, I personally don’t give a damn about nibby nosing into what private choices women in general make about their bodies. Their body, their business. But if an individual woman happens to have become pregnant through her chosen sexual interaction with me, then it’s not just about her body anymore, it’s about a potential human being with a body of its own, and it’s about me too, as that potential human being would be my offspring as well as hers.

So now that we have straightened that out, I want to say that, as the woman is the one whose body bears the incredible strain of 9 months of pregnancy, she should always have the final say in matters relating to that. But the idea that men have no involvement in “reproductive healthcare choices” (aka ‘pregnancy’) - and thus no say in the matter - makes absolutely no sense.

[Snsl153]

"This is strictly about whether men should even get a say about what a woman chooses to do with her own body when they are not the ones forced to give up their body's health to carry a child."
The problem with this whole issue as I see it, is the adversarial nature of it. I don't think it's as simple as whether or not a man should "get a say" about what a woman should do with her own body.
The answer to the question of whether or not people, whether male or female, should be allowed to influence what others do with their bodies is not so clear-cut, because:
a) What if the person in question is a minor, under 18? Do parents get to have a say in whether or not their daughter should, or should not, have a child?
b) What if the person in question is mentally handicapped?
c) Regarding the abortion issue, at what point is a "foetus" seen as being a child? At what stage of development?
d) What about the rights of the father? Yes, you know, the other person in this equation, the one who is often totally ignored, and who is just as responsible for the appearance of the child as the mother.
e) What about the, extremely biased, media coverage of this topic? We only ever hear stories about how, "Having an abortion was the greatest thing ever! It was just a clump of cells that I got rid of, like cutting my nails. No big deal". Well, what about all those women who ended up regretting the decision? We never hear their side.
And finally, what about the child/baby/foetus/whatever-you-want-to-call-him/her? Isn't human life intrinsically valuable? What crime did the child commit that warrants his/her execution?
I'll probably get a lot of criticism for this, but I don't care. What's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. Abortion is wrong, that's all there is to it.

[EmyyWolf]

If women don’t want children they shouldn't be sexually active with a man. If there were no doctors around, who thee “hell” is gonna terminate the abortion? NOBODY!

Im all for abortion. But a grown-adult-woman should be responsible enough to not become pregnant if she isn’t ready or financially ready. She should take full responsibility for her actions. There are condoms available everywhere, there is plenty of amazing sex toys available. There are birth control devices that can be implanted.

There should be no reason for an abortion to take place at all if you are smart enough and grown enough.
Rape is a different story. Incest is a different story. And being homeless is a different story. In that case yes. Terminate it. Sterilize the homeless. Lock up those who practice incest.

BUT IN THIS DAY AND AGE.. A SMART GROWN WOMAN WHOS GOT HER HEAD SCREWED IN RIGHT, WOULDN’T BE IN NEED OF PRACTICING ANY ABORTION.

(I’m 24, poor, going to school, living with mom and dad, and if I want to have fun and get frisky, I’ll use any of my 20 sex toys, or I’ll use condoms with my sex-friend)(I’ve never had to partake in no abortion)

[Sixgunsound]

If the question is about owning your own body, when women who are the gatekeepers to sex and can thus refuse pregnancy altogether, but after choosing to do activities that can lead to pregnancy have refused their exclusive access to almost every birth control option, have chosen not to use plan B, I do not feel bad for people who choose to be in this position.

Before we can even have that conversation, however, we need to be intellectually honest about who owns their body and who does not. Sexual assault has always been a crime, and means of abortion have predated written language, and have been recovered in very early examples of writing both in fiction and in medicine. Conscription, or the requirement for men to be abducted under duress to die in wealthy people’s international pissing contests, is as old as time. This fundamental lack of ownership over men’s lives or health or time is not applicable to women, so who REALLY doesn’t own their body and is subject to harsher external controls?

[ObscuredBeyond]

Killing babies is controlling women's lives. Especially unborn women! But also, the spiritual slavery of bondage to sexual sin. And furthermore, trafficked women are often forced or coerced into it, at behest of pimps. Not criminalizing baby butcher furthermore gives traffickers an easy way to bribe a surgeon to cover up innumerable crimes against mothers. And parents who would force their daughters to abort, can now be exposed as the abusers they are.

Killing children isn't the answer. It's making the innocent party answer with its life for the transgressions of prior generations. That practice needs to be erased. Period.

If that means making casual sex shameful again, so be it. This will force a lot of men, as well as women, to start cleaning up their act.

May the next thing to be reversed be LBJ's"Great Society" legislation. Its legacy has been nothing but destructive and demoralizing.

And if entertainers want to keep pushing the envelope of degeneracy, put them on notice. The charade is over. America is becoming America again. We will not remain sheep for the slaughter. We will not be China's guinea pigs any longer! And may Pooh suffer an agony for his crimes for which there is no word!

[Anonymous]

I agree with you. Men shouldn't have a say.
Personally I think nature has made females in a way that their ability to bear children, and also their most important yet overlooked and undervalued characteristic, MOTHERHOOD, is very unfair to them.
For starters, both males and females have sex. Males enjoy it, get an orgasm, and go off to enjoy the rest of their day. But the female gets pregnant, risks her health and life through pregnancy and childbirth, and if she survives, she is then chained to her offspring and forced to battle the world to feed and protect those children. The male is free to help or not help, and even harm those very children. He is free to stay or go. (Lots of guys are MIA and leave the poor mother of their children at the mercy of costly frustrating torturesome legal procedures and they do get away with it).
At least in the animal kingdom, females aren't restricted by the dictations of society. But in the human realm, ever since religion, women have been treated far worse than today's caged chickens that are imprisoned for their eggs.

Before religion, women's situation was mostly equal to a free female animal. After religion, all control was handed over to men. Women were forced to marry, expected to obey and have sex (which I think is the definition of rape), prevented from using birth control, forced to raise those children AND cook and clean and serve, and were even beaten in the process. Women were also forced to remain virgins until marriage and to remain faithful and were severely punished if they failed to do so. While men were free to do as they wished.

I ask this of the guys here that are so quick to hate and blame and condemn women, how would YOU feel if anyone did any of those things to YOU? Think of it from a woman's perspective. Empathize.

[Sorn40]

I'm torn here. I don't want to tell a woman she should have a baby she doesn't want (if it is at a very low level of development). I don't, but I also think some ugly stereotypes exist to a degree about men (not caring about the child they might have). If the pregnancy was the result of a rape and the woman doesn't want this kid, they should not be forced at all to have it if they don't want it. Somehow, I feel most women would not go through with a pregnancy that came as the result from a man who forced themselves on them (even though the child born from a union isn't to blame from it).

With that said, there is this sense that the male here has no say at all involved? So I think at least a conversation should take place between the man and the woman involved here first before an abortion takes place (since once that decision is made) it's done forever.

I also think that some men and women who have sex at a certain point in their life, once making a decision to abort might have regrets later on doing so in life.

If a woman could die from having a baby, they should not be forced to have a baby that she doesn't want and could have a good percentage in killing her.

[VanillaSalt]

First off… The Supreme Court has women on it and their elected to make such decisions…


Second. I supported safe, legal, rare but that was taken far far beyond rare. There’s actually people bragging about having their 8th abortion… When you went to school the privilege of chewing gum or eating snacks was taken because some idiot stuck their gum to the bottom of the desk or their mess attracted ants…What privileges have you lost on a job because someone else screwed it up?


Ide love to continue supporting safe, legal, and rare but women have proven they can’t be trusted to make such decisions… although I’ll consider a compromise… outlaw sex outside marriage. Then both men and women are held to the same standard.


I also wanna be clear. Where have all the men gone? When I say this wouldn’t be an issue if women weren’t opening their legs to the wrong/every guy. The response I keep getting is if men didn’t simp, if men would be better men, if guys didn’t try and screw everything with 2+ legs… Women want men to be leaders and this is men leading.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Before I start, for the record, Salt and I are friends and I care for him dearly, but that being said I couldn't disagree with you more and furthermore it is beyond sexist this nonsense that you wrote here.

Who are you to judge what is right or wrong for women to decide for themselves? I dont care if it is their first or 15th abortion, that's their call. That is a right they have whether you agree or not. There are a lot of things you say and do that I don't agree with but I don't dare post to you and say that you can no longer be trusted to make the right decision. I support your actions time and time again because they are within your right to have those reactions.

This is not men leading, this is men trying to control women and their decisions through force. That's not a leader, it's a dictator.

[VanillaSalt]

Your not dumb enough to think this ruling only changes things for women. Fewer men will get sex, relationships will be more difficult to progress to the next level, men will have an even harder time becoming fathers…

Who are you to decide who it’s okay or not to kill? To me that’s a baby not cells. To me that’s murder. But because you disagree im expected to stand aside for something I had a hand in making? That’s just not acceptable.

I accept your life choices too girly remember that. Agree or not it’s your choice to do yours your way just cause it’s you. But involving a baby and possibly mine or my brothers is not.

Sometimes a leader has to do things harshly. It’s rare for a leader to be recognized for the “accepted good” they do but people will always point out the things that they do “wrong”.

Again I don’t agree with making it illegal either but Ide rather it be illegal then have millions die every year to “contraception”.

[Femphile_xoxo]

Men shouldn't have a say in women's reproductive choices. It's her body, not his. Men aren't the ones carrying the child, and putting their bodies at risk during and after pregnancy. There's the argument about "well but if he's the father", while it might be disappointing for the man's partner to get an abortion, it's her choice and he's not at all harmed. All the man contributes to pregnancy is sperm, not his wellbeing.

It's also popular enough to argue that "she should never have gotten pregnant" but who's saying she wanted to get pregnant. Many women get abortions due to social and economic reasons, meaning they most likely didn't want to get pregnant in the first place. Whether it be unsafe sex, a condom ripping, birth control not working, or the whole slur of ways to get pregnant.

[t-8900]

"Many women get abortions due to social and economic reasons, meaning they most likely didn't want to get pregnant in the first place. Whether it be unsafe sex, a condom ripping, birth control not working, or the whole slur of ways to get pregnant."

there's always adoption and there are means of getting medical coverage for the poor, so economics is a lousy excuse. If you dont want to ger pregnant then dont take the chance till you are ready. Once upon a time this was what women did because it was the smart/right thing to do. I would say a person's freedom ends where another's begins. As far as it not harming men, you're wrong. Mental health is a real thing and it does affect men very much. I've mentioned this before on here a few times. My dad had a friend who begged for his ex not to get an abortion but she did it anyways. A few weeks later after the deep depression he battled as a result he was found in his kitchen with a not on his table and he was hanging from the ceiling. He took his life because he couldnt live with it. So you're wrong that it doesn't harm men. It does and we are not unfeeling animals.

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 Never once did I say that men were emotionless. As much as it is certainly disappointing if your partner gets an abortion, you should accept that fact, and support them. Do you seriously believe that a woman should be forced to put her body and mind at risk for something that, despite what some might say, isn't actually alive yet? Being forced to give birth to a child she knows she doesn't want or can't afford to take care of?

Sure, there are means of getting medical coverage. But they're hard. Just because there are ways doesn't mean they're anywhere near easy. Roughly 1.3% of abortions in the US are late termination, meaning that the abortions done aren't even relatively near anything "living". And even with late termination pregnancies, the fetus isn't alive.

[t-8900]

it would be a cold day in hell before i ever supported ANYONE getting an abortion.

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 Trust me, I don't think anyone thinks you of all people would be supporting someone getting an abortion. You seem to be just happy with women being forced through traumatic experiences.

[t-8900]

I forced them to go have sex?

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 Omg, you missed that completely. I was talking about abortions. Since that's the current topic.

[t-8900]

uh no, you missed what i said completely. What i said was on point. Freedom of action is not freedom of consequences. When you choose to sleep with someone you made a conscious decision and took a calculated risk. If we didn't have the modern medicine we have today would so many women still opt to so freely sleep around with dead beats they dont want the children of?

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 Condoms rip, teen mothers, pregnancies from rape and inceset, mothers recognizing they're not financially well off enough to take care of a child, the list goes on. People who simply just don't want to carry a child.

Also, you say sleep around like women are sluts. But actually, people would still sleep with one another. There used to be, I believe for the Romans, a plant that was discovered to be an effective contraceptive. They used it so often that it went extinct. Besides, if a woman gets pregnant from "sleeping around", nothing happens to that man. Accidents happen, and abortions aren't actually killing children so it's fine.

[t-8900]

@Femphile_xoxo rape and incest make up less than 1% of all abortions study show. This from left wing sources actually. Perhaps we can have something done but ONLY for those cases. If they aren't financially well off enough the can put the child up for adoption. That's the humane and ethical thing to do. "There used to be, I believe for the Romans, a plant that was discovered to be an effective contraceptive." Yet under all of the Abrahamic religions this was never a thing and women didn't just sleep around. Yes it is slutty and thats why women complain about "where have all the good men gone". Lots of em dont want a girl who's had a shitload of partners. It shows a laundry list of problems for long term relationships and it's also quite disgusting. Most men dont want prostitutes for wives, that's just a given. by the way weather the romans used that contraceptive or not is irrelevant. Rome was one society of many who didn't use that plant at the same time. This same civilization that enslaved and killed for sport and raped those they conquered. It says more about them and those that would use such methods like that. "Besides, if a woman gets pregnant from "sleeping around", nothing happens to that man" of she can track the man we have DNA testing. If he's the baby's father he has a legal obligation. In case you are unaware there are many men in prison for not paying child support. This isn't something new its been around for decades.

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 Wow! So you believe that only "slutty" women get abortions? What a joke, man. Even then, there's nothing wrong with having many sexual partners, as long as you're not cheating. People can either choose abstinence at any time in their life, come to the end of a sexually active era, or just continue having multiple partners. You speak as though every woman sleeps around and every woman needs to pursue a male partner.

If you're so against the legal side of child support, wouldn't you actually care for abortions? Whatever dude. Anti-abortionists aren't pro-life, you guys are just anti-woman.

[t-8900]

"Wow! So you believe that only "slutty" women get abortions? " Quote me cuz I didn't. I said the majority and thats very true.

"Even then, there's nothing wrong with having many sexual partners, as long as you're not cheating." till you meet a guy you're totally into that won't tolerate it. And yes that happens rather often actually. I've seen it multiple times on gag alone but other social medias as well.

"You speak as though every woman sleeps around" No I didn't, just the vast majority of those seeking abortions.

"If you're so against the legal side of child support, wouldn't you actually care for abortions?"
who said I was against child support? I am telling you men ARE held responsible, period. I never said that was wrong I said women also need to be held to the same standard if they want to be "equals" to men in that regard. Right now women are handled with kid gloves in the west.

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 I've had friends who've gotten abortions. And only two out of the dozen had been sexually active with multiple partners. The rest of them were all young and when they weighed their options, decided that they had a whole life ahead of them. And that they wouldn't want to be weighed down by a child from an unplanned pregnancy. There are a million reasons for women to get abortions that relate to economic and social reasons, that are other than "they're promiscuous".

[t-8900]

@Femphile_xoxo if they're that young having abortions, already off to a bad start. You dont need to be having sex before financial independence for one thing. Another thing where tf were their fathers? I personally would never have gone out with a chick who had an abortion anymore than I would a girl with multiple kids out of wedlock. Before you try to say I'm some terrible person or that I'm a rare species I'll say 1) Women dont look at the world the same way men do and 2) My viewpoints are rather common still, thankfully. The reasons why are simple, she lacks discretion and she doesn't choose her partners well. She doesn't think long term before taking actions which is childish, not adult. You might have lots of women agreeing with you but unless you are going to start dating women it's not in your best interests to be getting all kinds of strange or getting pregnant at all until you found someone solid. My dad kept a close eye on me and I'm very thankful for it. I wasn't even having sex till my mid 20's, when I had a job. Plenty of the most financially stable people aren't messing around like that in their younger years, they got their priorities straight first. Adoption is always an option and giving that baby a chance at life is something you can know you did and you can die in old age in peace knowing you did the right thing but letting them live and grow up and experience their own lives rather than snuffing them out. They, being your very one flesh and blood.

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 When I say young I mean mid-twenties, though some of them older. Whether it be from lack of proper sex education, a ripped condom (which obviously isn't her or her partner's fault), or just simply birth control failing.

Being pregnant isn't a small thing. It takes major tolls on the body, and there are just so many what if's from case to case. Putting your body through hell and back isn't worth it if you're just going to put that child up for adoption. Men don't have to go through pregnancy and deal with the physical and mental costs.

Saying that women should give up nearly a year putting their body through the wringer just to give away that kid is such a dude thing to say tbh. Probably cause you guys don't go through pregnancy so you'd never have to deal with that. The biggest risk for you is an STI.

[t-8900]

@Femphile_xoxo uh yeah "such a guy thing" but here's the thing 1) its how most guys like/want it to be and 2) and more importantly men still are held to a standard. There are legal ramifications if the guy skips out on child support or gets divorced. So yeah its not a walk in the park for the guy either. Some of us have experienced out of this world agony as well. Granted not child bearing but then again our bodies aren't built for it to begin with. mid twenties is the ideal age to have kids, that's not young. All these 30 and 40 somethings struggling to have kids. Their best chances have come and gone and it becomes MORE complicated as you get older. "Putting your body through hell and back isn't worth it if you're just going to put that child up for adoption" This is the issue with a lot of you women today. You think about "Me, me, me". Think about the greater good, doing for the kid. Make the kid the priority for that short time and do something positive about it for heaven's sake. Yknow I actually spent lots of my own free time helping kids in the inner cities. I know what that shit is like and I'm not ignorant to it. Being pregnant isn't a small thing, neither is terminating a pregnancy. You've been conditioned to be too desensitized to the situation. It's not a flippant matter and I'm tired of people treating it like it is.

[t-8900]

dont even watch the video, just read the comment section alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeE-csxMueY

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 As you can see with the anti-abortionist movement, women are often shamed for getting abortions. Already dealing with the mental scars that abortion can bring, shame can cause an immense amount of guilt. People often turn to religion when they feel shame or guilt. That video's comment section truly doesn't prove anything.

Besides, comment sections rarely ever prove anything.

[t-8900]

What it proves is that many women later live with the regret of getting an abortion. Many strong advocates later changed their tune after they had one done. You have been conditioned to accept abortion as no big deal. The people making money on fetuses want you to believe that

[Femphile_xoxo]

@t-8900 "Many" you say many like a decent portion. There are thousands of people, women and not, who believe that women should be allowed abortions. A small comment section says nothing. YouTube videos are bad enough but YouTube comments, I mean seriously. Should you know that's just about the worst source out there?

[t-8900]

more sources:
healthresearchfunding.org/.../

www.lifenews.com/.../

thelifeinstitute.net/.../study-96-of-women-who-couldnt-access-abortion-dont-regret-that-after-5-years

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8334275/

dailycaller.com/.../

www.christianitytoday.com/.../...ive-ministry.html

preciouslife.com/.../

afterabortion.org/.../

[SimpleGuy95]

Why isn´t their a button for the option it depends? Because I wouldn´t say that men should generally have a say in that because it obviously not their body plus most relationships don´t go very long so that would be too much responsibility given to a person she doesn´t spend time with for a very long time.
I rather say yes in some cases but rather in terms of him giving his opinion or giving a statement but not in terms of a veto rather as a second opinion if you know what I mean.
It´s rather meant as him saying his view in some specified cases. I would mostly reduce that on the question of procreation because most guys don´t know much about a woman´s body anyway so I wouldn´t say that they should decide something for her.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I think I didn't include it because I dont see it as a maybe and it sort of feels like a compromise on a topic that should have none.

Can I have an opinion on whether or not boys should be circumcised as a baby? (The answer is no they should not be) Yet, mothers across this country sexually mutilate their sons in the name of religion or because it "looks better". That body belongs to someone else and I should never get a say in stuff like that just like men should not have a say in what a woman does with her body and what may be growing in it.

[SimpleGuy95]

Valid point. Correcting myself I don´t think he should have a say, I´d rather say he could give his opinion.

[msc545]

@ez-bri-z When we sue women for getting their sons circumcised, are you going to support that publicly?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

100%

[msc545]

I'll be sure to hold my breath waiting for you to do that.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Go read some of my other posts. I whole heartedly think it is sexual mutilation, that its wrong, and I will absolutely support any ban on it being done on anyone against their will

[msc545]

No you won't. You don't give a shit about men other than how much money you can get from them. Stop lying.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Bruh i make more than enough money on my own and I married another woman. What money am I taking from men?

[msc545]

I don't know what money you are taking but I would wager that you are or you will.

[FriendlyDrugDealer]

I’ve talked on this topic multiple times and my response is best summarized by a comedian.


“ if you have a penis, you need to shut the fuck up on this one. No one has the right to tell a woman what she has to do with her body. A woman doesn’t have to discuss her body with anyone besides her physician of her choosing. With that being said, if you can kill this baby, I can at least abandon him. If I’m wrong then perhaps we are all wrong.”

[joeldalton]

So wait. The people with penises in the supreme court upheld Roe v. wade as constitutional. Do you want men to shut the fuck up, or only men you disagree with?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Bruh go troll somewhere else.

[Still-alive]

I always say that no the father doesn't get a say... however it is highly highly recommended that the mother has a serious discussion with the father about this. the father must let her ultimately decide what to do but he should be informed and they can discuss pro's and cons about keeping the child or not.

Of course all this flies out the window if the father turns out to be abusive or is a rapist of course.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

If it is a situation where they are not the result of a rape or abuse then sure a conversation can be had and he can provide his feelings but in the end he shouldn't be able to pressure her into a decision that doesn't work for her.

[Still-alive]

i didn't say or imply 'pressure' i just say have a conversation about it. if she doesn't im sorry but thats really fucking shitty on her part.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I disagree. She shouldn't need his permission to do what she wants to do with her own body. A conversation is fine but by no means a requirement.

[Still-alive]

thinking this over a bit more. my answer is more when she hasn't decided yet and is just basically thinking it through and the conversation with the father will aid her in ultimately making the decision.

However if she has already made her decision but is just informing him to be nice then yeah he in turn she just be supportive of it. no attempting to talk her out of it or making her feel bad for doing it.

[Still-alive]

"She shouldn't need his permission to do what she wants to do with her own body. "

i didn't say permission... i said a conversation.. just healthy conversation with he father about it. and he should ultimately support whatever she decides.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Disagree again.

She can let him know and at that point he's allowed to have feelings and express them just as he would if she decided to keep it.

My niece just went through this where the father was adamant she abort and even got his mother involved who then tried to schedule meetings between the family. It was insane. In the end she kept it and I applaud her. (I personally disagree with abortion but support a woman's right to choose).

I know he was scared and I know a lot of men who hear their partner is pregnant may be scared. It's ok to be. It's a huge change. That conversation though is ultimately on her to have or not have before or after an abortion.

[Still-alive]

so for example if the father says 'you know i would love to have the child... i can help afford him'

but then she says 'well im not ready to be a mother yet.'

he should be silent and let her have the final say of course.

[Still-alive]

" Disagree again.

She can let him know and at that point he's allowed to have feelings and express them just as he would if she decided to keep it. "

im not sure what we disagree on here lol what you just wrote i do agree with.

"That conversation though is ultimately on her to have or not have before or after an abortion"

which is also exactly what i said... it is ultimately her choice... but i still think its highly recommended she does inform him.. if she cares at all about him or his feelings on the matter. to not do this just comes across as a bit heartless in my opinion.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I disagreed with you saying she would be "fucking shitty" on her part not to have the conversation

[Still-alive]

ok welp yes i do think that.. unless he's abusive or a rapist...

[Still-alive]

I mean we men do have feelings even about having children. not being considerate of those feelings is just heartless af to me.

[Kaytiee]

Swaying off the direct question a bit here, but if the man knew the woman didn't want a baby, but still persuaded/guilt-tripped the woman into not having to use a condom, and then the woman ends up pregnant, then the man should have NO choice, as he knew she didn't want a child and now she is simply taking actions to enforce that, unlike you refusing to wear a condom.

But no, a man shouldn't have the final choice in what a woman does with her body, he's not the one having to carry it for 9 months. Could the father have valuable input? Yes, but a man having the final decision will never happen in the western world.

[ZackBan]

As long as men are being made to pay for the woman's decision they should natrually have a say.
You want men not have say whatsoever?
Push to have involuntary child support abolished.

Because this isn't just about a person's body it's about a person's life. A woman decides to keep a baby and a man is stuck holding a very expensive bill for 18 years often eliminating his chances at building a decent life for himself.

So instead of talking about moralites let's talk about a solution that benefits everyone (except maybe the swindlers who try to trap athletes by having their kids, those can take their little scam and go to hell)

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I hate the child support argument. It is such a cop out. He agreed to have sex too. That woman is also on the hook financially so please don't try to compare the two. It's kind of insulting and negates the woman's financial and time commitments made when they do decide to keep the baby.

[ZackBan]

I'm sorry that you hate the argument but it's still a solid one.
Agreeing to 10 minutes of intercourse is not agreed to 2 decades of extortion, surely you can see how insane that sounds just saying it hypothetically.

The woman being on the hook financially is entirely her choice, if she can't do it then get the abortion afterall I said "the ideal would be women getting to make the final choice, and men not having to pay for that choice no matter what it is"

By doing it like that, you keep the baby if you can and wish to raise it. And you get rid of it if you can't handle it on your own.
Keeping in mind that it's a case by case thing, I am saying end involuntary child support, if the father willingly choses to pitch in it's a decision he gets to make.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

It was his choice to cum inside her. Its her choice to keep it.

The financial part is the courts choice in saying both are responsible for the care of the life they created together or that child gets taken away or the party refusing to participated in that care is punished. That isn't a choice either is making without court decisions being made.

[ZackBan]

Exactly. And since the court today is involved in that why should it not be involved in abortion? To go back to the original question.

Everyone is in an uproar about the court wanting to make a decision of behalf of a woman but it's already been doing that for ages on behalf of men and no one batted an eyelid.

Which is why I'm saying let's fight to end the court's control over childbirth all together not just pass a law that gives women all the power at the expense of men, many of whome did wear a consom but it broke still got their lives ruined.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Its been doing it financially on both parties. Women have to pay if the father has custody too.

[ZackBan]

And they shouldn't have to, I'm not arguing agaisnt women I just want a fair outcome for everyone.
And by fair I mean "no one person having power over another person through a child"

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Then stop comparing the two. This is strictly about the Healthcare part of it not the financial responsibility of both parents.

[ZackBan]

They go hand in hand.
I'm not comparing I'm pointing out the issue as bigger than a question of who choses if a woman gets to abort. Because if you change a system from it's roots it becomes easier to get people used to the new Apprach.

And by adding that aspect to the demand you gain the support of a large part of the male population and as a united front it's easier to have the law changed

[Ez-Bri-Z]

There is already a majority who support abortion rights but the religious minority is forcing their way anyway

[WonderBell99]

I'm pro-choice, but the father (as long as he isn't a deadbeat/abusive) should DEFINITELY have a say on what happens to the child. It takes two to tango. The father's feelings should be taken into consideration.

The woman should sit down and have a conversation with the father and make a decision that would be best for themselves and the baby. If both are adults, they should act like it. On the other hand, if the woman does not want to raise the baby, she could either give the full custody to the father/put it up for adoption.

If she does not want to carry the baby up to term, and is sure that she wants to terminate the pregnancy, they should come to a compromise. I, personally, think if a woman does not want to carry a baby, she should not be forced.

If the mother's in a bad place mentally or is not ready to carry a child, it will take a toll on her mental health which will be detrimental to the baby's development.

[WonderBell99]

I would also like to add this: If the couple decides to keep the baby because the father said so, he should pay child support. Many men don't care about women's rights, but they care about their bank balance, don't they?

If a woman really does not want to carry the baby, she should NOT be coerced into it. While I personally do not like the concept of abortions, it is a necessary evil. Parents should be responsible for their kid and every kid deserves comfort and love. Abortions should NOT occur after 24 weeks because the pain perception of the baby begins around 23-24 weeks.

[ManOnFire]

If a woman can tell a man she won't sleep with him unless he wears a condom - which is having a say in a healthcare decision for her benefit and not his, why can't a man in a relationship with a woman have a say on whether she should abort or not?

I am still puzzled with this whole pro-life/pro-choice debate with genders because women want to have a right to do something that they would demonize men for if men wanted the women to have an abortion. A man becomes a selfish asshole if he wanted a woman to have an abortion, but a woman is not a selfish asshole for wanting to do it because she doesn't want her future ruined.

[Apple1996]

Nah all these men bitching about how abortion is murder can get fucked. They have no idea how difficult it is being pregnant, giving birth, and having to care for a child. And it's just impossible for them to understand those things so they really need to keep their months shut when it comes to abortions and women's health.

[SolitarySolace]

1. Abortion isn't a form of Healthcare
2. Men should have a say regarding the decision because it is also HIS CHILD TOO. This is why I keep saying women are selfish. Because once they're pregnant all they think about is themselves. As if they got themselves pregnant and didn't willingly give her body away to a man in the act of consenting to having Sexual intercourse with him. I honestly don't care if an abortion is had or not. I only care that both the woman AND THE MAN both agree to it because if one agrees and one doesn't there should be a court hearing or something like with divorces. Instead, the women can completely disregard the man's opinions on the matter as if his opinions mean jack shit. This is why I'm never having kids. Apart from the fact that I'm voluntarily celibate and find jamming my piss shooter into a woman's lifeless flaps to be absolutely disgusting. 🤮

[sunflower00]

Absolutely not, it’s the woman’s body so it is her decision. Of course, on topics like abortion, the woman should listen to her partner and take their opinions into account, but she should always have the final say - who would want another person to legally be allowed to have a say in what happens to your body? Men - how would you like it if women got to decide if you got a vasectomy or not because they are your partner and they don’t want kids?

[Kaamraj]

I will vote no if men have a say in whether the child is born or not. Meaning whether they are going to end up having to pay child support for a child that they might not want necessarily or not be prepared for. I agree that one should you protection always but that goes both ways and there is a slight chance of its failure. Secondly, do female politicians have a say in the selective service of men, or matters of the armed forces which is almost exclusively a male domain? - What about labor and risk intensive job sectors? If those conditions are met than I agree that men and women should not have a political say in matters that affect the other exclusively.

[Sarahnah]

No, the final say should be up to the woman. He's not carrying the fetus, he won't be the one giving birth, and it's not his body that the abortion is being operated on.

However, I think men should have the right to sign away the obligation to financially support the child at least two weeks before abortion is illegal in their state of residence. Say if in his state abortion was illegal after 15 weeks, then the man has until the end of week 13 to refuse child support. 2 weeks is enough for the woman to decide if she wants to keep the pregnancy or not after she is notified that she won't be receiving financial support from her partner.