and... if you build a wooden ramp for a dirtbike over a canal there's a risk factor, but no one will stop you unless it's a city. Then you might need a motorcycle.
currently the male version can be done and/or undone much easier then the female version. also the average male recovery time is around 3 days until able to return to work. but the average females recovery time is 7 days or more until able to return to work. however if they find a way to do the female version more efficiently and effectively. likely to see more females consider it as an option provided it becomes less restricted.
True, female sterilization is generally inpatient, while male is outpatient, though shouldn't that reinforce the freedom to regret? The reason most won't offer to women under 30 is because something like 20% or higher will regret being sterilized with or without kids under that age, where it's lower than 5% after that. The reversal surgeries are also wildly expensive and ineffective, men tend to run at about 2% regret across the board, the wives at 3% oddly. 1 in 5 compared to 1 in 50 is a big difference before talking about difficulty of procedure.
well you see as a man you can freeze sperm, so you don't have that issue. i don't know how likely a successful reversal of such a sterilization is for women but with a vasectomy, you actually have quite good chances of reversing it.
I never thought about that, and feel stupid that I haven't, men can easily freeze swimmers for a low monthly cost ahead of time, it's more difficult and expensive for women to freeze eggs, though they can, and getting their tubes tied doesn't affect the uterus.
The irony being if they want to harvest eggs before being sterilized there'd be a period of time being ultra-fertile before not having it at all, the see-saw there makes for an interesting paradigm shift.
but generally i think for women the risk of serious complications is quite high with the methods we have. so since it's a way higher risk surgery, i would think it is actually sensible to say that this process is "inherently" less easy...
I don't know what number would ever be enough, I have 4 kids, and want more. If other women, you know, the ones I'm not sleeping with, want to make these decisions, I do not care, and just find it humorous how hard they'll push for the ability to have abortions anywhere at any time, but not to have the same to prevent becoming pregnant in the first place.
It is, so is the foster system, numbers have been falling for people entering both, in America at least, since the housing crash, slight bump around 2016-2018, then it drops off again.
So do you think men should have their balls protected more or that women should have easier access? I mean, I don't want to make assumptions on which way you might be leaning on that one lol
Interesting, I had assumed it was at least 18, but I was wrong. Medicaid won't pay until 21 for men or women. For men the minimum age is 16, for women there is no minimum. So if you can find the cash, and a doctor willing to do it, you could get tubals done on your children before they even know what reproduction is, but for a man it's 16, unless he wants to be a transformer and do away with the whole kit.
I agree with you, that's a service that should not be available until someone is at least 18, and then freely available if they have the cash. I also think giving children drugs or surgery to be transformers is gross child abuse as well, but that's just me. That's crazy though, depending on being a legal adult and of sound mind you can get a vasectomy, makes sense. Being a female and finding a doctor who will take the cash, any age. Maybe I had this whole thing backwards, there is no end of people who will do jacked up things to their kids.
Any surgery and modification to body comes with complications now or in near future so anyways there are more humans in the world so it's still fine whoever wants to have the surgeries. But it's health risk.
Hmm, I did not know that, from what others are saying a picture is starting to form in my mind, like large providers have some concrete rules there, and independent ones will act more autonomously. Is that close to the mark?
My friend had a child at 16 and another at 17 by a much older women, he tried to get a vasectomy at ,21 but was turned down by multiple Drs as he was "to young and vasectomies aren't really reversible"
Your friend was a victim, but no one will acknowledge that because he's a guy, just "how lucky" "man up". That's jacked up. I hope he's in a better spot today.
Whether it's harder to reverse or there are other options is irrelevant, either it should be difficult for men as well, or easier for women. Either making babies is important as a whole to the medical community, and our policy makers, or it isn't.
Anyway, men are already only 49% of the population, further reducing the amount that can reproduce is not a great idea long term as far as genetic diversity goes. Maybe it could be interesting a few thousand years from now and the selective breeding makes people like breeds of dogs. More likely it would just be horrifying though
I'd argue the only real difference with becoming an adult is making more mistakes to learn from. It's not like I hit 20 and suddenly divorced my cheating wife and stopped being a simp... wait, that is what happened. Anyway, I'm a fan of letting people make mistakes and regrets, even if they're permanent ones. Huff keyboard duster and drive a motorcycle, smoke some crack, rawdog a hooker, do that whole yolo thing
I disagree, genetic diversity is important for those willing to have kids, even if we're moving in an idiocracy direction. Forcing eugenics would just reward one ideology, race, religion, what have you, but not be able to shape intelligence or behavior from genetics meaningfully as we don't understand it well enough.
If it's something you're dedicated to doing though you could make a cyclotron to create highly radioactive isotopes (how heavy depends on the size of your cyclotron), put them in a lead tube with a slide, and point it at people's crotches. You could also make a shitload of money from your cyclotron processing chemo drugs.
Or spend 100,000 for a neutron generator, but that would be more likely to cause cancer/death than simply bust those gametes into non-viability.
I don’t know why it’s expected that women take control of birth control. Very little option exist for men, basically only vasectomy and condoms, each with their own drawback.
I've always been curious about that one myself, I know when I get older I'm still going to want to get with younger women. But within the next ten years or so, won't want to be having new kids while trying to buy more property and retire, the two are a little incompatible, and I don't want to be running around the park at that point until I have grandkids lol
At your age I could see knocking a girl up because she's younger and I just care so so much or whatever (blinded by the puppy love), but at say 55, that's just not giving a damn. I'm not going to be around for that high school graduation, or at least not in a meaningful way.
@razelove my father had me at 45 - he died at 62. With his anal retentiveness - could of seen me graduate college - on my terms - but chose to fuck my life up. I graduated college the semester after he died (2002) - 20 years. I got my degree. But - he also didn't see me getting bitch slapped by society - getting high blood pressure, and a whole host of sicknesses. in addition to - Im taking 4 more meds than him when he was alive (end stage renal - diabetes) I mean shit - If I get someone younger - I know Id probably be dead of a stroke if its a girl - being the protective dad - or a boy - if he scratches my car..
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tubule ligation is a procedure that required being put under. that is always inherently a risk factor.
and... if you build a wooden ramp for a dirtbike over a canal there's a risk factor, but no one will stop you unless it's a city. Then you might need a motorcycle.
currently the male version can be done and/or undone much easier then the female version. also the average male recovery time is around 3 days until able to return to work. but the average females recovery time is 7 days or more until able to return to work. however if they find a way to do the female version more efficiently and effectively. likely to see more females consider it as an option provided it becomes less restricted.
i think the testicles are way more easily accesible for this sort of procedure.
True, female sterilization is generally inpatient, while male is outpatient, though shouldn't that reinforce the freedom to regret? The reason most won't offer to women under 30 is because something like 20% or higher will regret being sterilized with or without kids under that age, where it's lower than 5% after that. The reversal surgeries are also wildly expensive and ineffective, men tend to run at about 2% regret across the board, the wives at 3% oddly. 1 in 5 compared to 1 in 50 is a big difference before talking about difficulty of procedure.
well you see as a man you can freeze sperm, so you don't have that issue. i don't know how likely a successful reversal of such a sterilization is for women but with a vasectomy, you actually have quite good chances of reversing it.
I never thought about that, and feel stupid that I haven't, men can easily freeze swimmers for a low monthly cost ahead of time, it's more difficult and expensive for women to freeze eggs, though they can, and getting their tubes tied doesn't affect the uterus.
The irony being if they want to harvest eggs before being sterilized there'd be a period of time being ultra-fertile before not having it at all, the see-saw there makes for an interesting paradigm shift.
i mean even the procurement of the egg cell would be way more of a hassle than just jizzing n a cup xD
but generally i think for women the risk of serious complications is quite high with the methods we have. so since it's a way higher risk surgery, i would think it is actually sensible to say that this process is "inherently" less easy...
even outside of any moral judgement.
Whatever works for you, my girlfriend also considers it after we have one child or two
I don't know what number would ever be enough, I have 4 kids, and want more. If other women, you know, the ones I'm not sleeping with, want to make these decisions, I do not care, and just find it humorous how hard they'll push for the ability to have abortions anywhere at any time, but not to have the same to prevent becoming pregnant in the first place.
Well adoption is always an option too
It is, so is the foster system, numbers have been falling for people entering both, in America at least, since the housing crash, slight bump around 2016-2018, then it drops off again.
I recently heard about this as well. I think it's blatant discrimination.
So do you think men should have their balls protected more or that women should have easier access? I mean, I don't want to make assumptions on which way you might be leaning on that one lol
@razelove Sorry; let me clarify. I am agreeing with you. I think that women should have easier access to birth control.
They can do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies.
Not until 18-21. I don’t believe children should be making life altering decisions to their bodies until they are adults.
Interesting, I had assumed it was at least 18, but I was wrong. Medicaid won't pay until 21 for men or women. For men the minimum age is 16, for women there is no minimum. So if you can find the cash, and a doctor willing to do it, you could get tubals done on your children before they even know what reproduction is, but for a man it's 16, unless he wants to be a transformer and do away with the whole kit.
I agree with you, that's a service that should not be available until someone is at least 18, and then freely available if they have the cash. I also think giving children drugs or surgery to be transformers is gross child abuse as well, but that's just me. That's crazy though, depending on being a legal adult and of sound mind you can get a vasectomy, makes sense. Being a female and finding a doctor who will take the cash, any age. Maybe I had this whole thing backwards, there is no end of people who will do jacked up things to their kids.
Yes. 100% if they are sure they do not want children ever.
Any surgery and modification to body comes with complications now or in near future so anyways there are more humans in the world so it's still fine whoever wants to have the surgeries. But it's health risk.
Most drs won't give a vasectomy to men under 25.
Hmm, I did not know that, from what others are saying a picture is starting to form in my mind, like large providers have some concrete rules there, and independent ones will act more autonomously. Is that close to the mark?
My friend had a child at 16 and another at 17 by a much older women, he tried to get a vasectomy at ,21 but was turned down by multiple Drs as he was "to young and vasectomies aren't really reversible"
Your friend was a victim, but no one will acknowledge that because he's a guy, just "how lucky" "man up". That's jacked up. I hope he's in a better spot today.
For females the procedure is more complicated and harder to reverse.
Besides, there are long-term things like Norplant which make it unnecessary.
Whether it's harder to reverse or there are other options is irrelevant, either it should be difficult for men as well, or easier for women. Either making babies is important as a whole to the medical community, and our policy makers, or it isn't.
Anyway, men are already only 49% of the population, further reducing the amount that can reproduce is not a great idea long term as far as genetic diversity goes. Maybe it could be interesting a few thousand years from now and the selective breeding makes people like breeds of dogs. More likely it would just be horrifying though
Anything that removes wishy-washy insecure "career" women from the gene pool is good policy and I support it 100%.
No. People know shit in their teens
I'd argue the only real difference with becoming an adult is making more mistakes to learn from. It's not like I hit 20 and suddenly divorced my cheating wife and stopped being a simp... wait, that is what happened. Anyway, I'm a fan of letting people make mistakes and regrets, even if they're permanent ones. Huff keyboard duster and drive a motorcycle, smoke some crack, rawdog a hooker, do that whole yolo thing
based on certain factors, it should be mandatory for some
I disagree, genetic diversity is important for those willing to have kids, even if we're moving in an idiocracy direction. Forcing eugenics would just reward one ideology, race, religion, what have you, but not be able to shape intelligence or behavior from genetics meaningfully as we don't understand it well enough.
If it's something you're dedicated to doing though you could make a cyclotron to create highly radioactive isotopes (how heavy depends on the size of your cyclotron), put them in a lead tube with a slide, and point it at people's crotches. You could also make a shitload of money from your cyclotron processing chemo drugs.
Or spend 100,000 for a neutron generator, but that would be more likely to cause cancer/death than simply bust those gametes into non-viability.
I don’t know why it’s expected that women take control of birth control. Very little option exist for men, basically only vasectomy and condoms, each with their own drawback.
It's an extremely drastic measure when so many other options are available.
Sure I don't see why not
Ditto, it's America, as long as it doesn't hurt someone else, we should all be free to make decisions we may or may not regret later
wish I could.. lol
Be sterilized or cause it? That would be a horrifying super-power for the latter
@razelove be sterile and cause myself to. I dont think by the time I find someone who wants to have kids Id be already in a box or urn.. lol
I've always been curious about that one myself, I know when I get older I'm still going to want to get with younger women. But within the next ten years or so, won't want to be having new kids while trying to buy more property and retire, the two are a little incompatible, and I don't want to be running around the park at that point until I have grandkids lol
At your age I could see knocking a girl up because she's younger and I just care so so much or whatever (blinded by the puppy love), but at say 55, that's just not giving a damn. I'm not going to be around for that high school graduation, or at least not in a meaningful way.
@razelove my father had me at 45 - he died at 62. With his anal retentiveness - could of seen me graduate college - on my terms - but chose to fuck my life up. I graduated college the semester after he died (2002) - 20 years. I got my degree. But - he also didn't see me getting bitch slapped by society - getting high blood pressure, and a whole host of sicknesses. in addition to - Im taking 4 more meds than him when he was alive (end stage renal - diabetes) I mean shit - If I get someone younger - I know Id probably be dead of a stroke if its a girl - being the protective dad - or a boy - if he scratches my car..
Yikes