How about we all uphold the same standard, If you’re not calling for violence you’re not responsible for the actions people take. If we are going to hold the standard that even if you’re not calling for violence but someone does something violent in your name then Bernie Sanders should be in prison for the attempted murder of congressman at the 2017 congressional baseball game. Maxine Waters should be prosecuted for assault on Charlie Kirk and Candice Owens, as well as the assault of some as while tossing water on Tomi Lahren. Chuck Schumer should be arrested for the assassination attempt of Brett Kavanaugh. The squad AOC, Rashida, Tlaib, Ilhan, Omar, and Ayana Presley should all be arrested for inciting violence in America has major cities same with Lori Lightfoot and anyone who encourage the BLM riots of 2020. So if we want to hold the standard that you are responsible for someone using your words when you were not calling for violence to perpetrate a violent act then we would have to apply it evenly.
it’s like the standard democrats are holding against Trump when he was president declassify information because all the president has to do is point to a stack of papers and say this is declassified he could literally be the nuclear codes. The president has the ability to do that. If you’re going to try to prosecute Trump over that when it was legal, you definitely have to impeach and remove Joe Biden from office when he did it as vice president when it was completely illegal or you could hold the James Comey standard, where as long as you did not intend for a classified documents to fall in the hands of the enemy, then you cannot be prosecuted. This is what happened to Hillary Clinton back in 2016 because she was running for president or that standard was completely terrible. Horrible and should not be followed again and both Trump and Biden should be prosecuted. Especially Biden because taking classified Documents and holding them in your garage as VP would fall under the category as high crimes and misdemeanors.
By the way, do you notice the two main contenders for 2020 for Joe Biden and Donald Trump now have special investigations against them for possession of classified documents to the people really decide who’s president or is it the bureaucratic an elected state.
@OddBeMe This is why you don't ask simplistic questions without context or care.
You asked if Trump responsible for this shooting, so he immediately says you have to arrest Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, AOC, and Ilmar Omar. Because in his mind, those two things are equivalent. By asking if trump is responsible since he claims his election was rigged also, then you have agree to arresting every dem (no republicans mind you). Because someone who supported them may have committed violence.
He never responds to your point.
Then he repeats a bunch of things that are not true. Like Trump can declassify a bunch of documents by looking at them. Which is demonstrably false. And we all know Trump took the documents and wanted them to stay classified. Because declassification is a process. Supporting agencies go through a process such that the information become worthless because they are no longer using it as a part of their operation.
That means it would have little value to Trump because he needed them to be classified for them to have worth.
The problem is your questions are asked as if you are talking to people who are genuine and who debate in good faith. And the problem is some of the people who respond are neither.
The point should have been, how do you have a democracy, when one side claims that whenever they lose, they have been cheated?
If you listen long enough, maga just begins to sound like the Dallas Cowboys. It is never their fault or responsibility, the referees took their victory away.
@RolandCuthbert so let me get this straight according to you because trump was saying the election was rigged he is now guilty of inciting violence. Ok then again we have to go arrest democrats for saying trump colluding with the Russians won him the 2016 election. Violence occurred for 4 years and continues to this day on college campuses because of that rhetoric. You say you can’t have a democracy when one party doesn’t trust the election. We are at a point we’re neither party accepts the result of the elections. Do you really think we wouldn’t be in the middle of a civil war if trump had won the 2020 election? Of course not democratic would have broken up the country again.
You guys love your double standards. You have a (D) by your name your good and can get away with anything. You have an (R) they will try to get you arrested for sneezing while Nancy Pelosi is talking.
@RolandCuthbert it’s hard to respond to rambling 16 page list of claims. I meant this as an open forum to discuss responsibility not criminal guilt. Like that shittenhouse guy, I respect courts and don’t trample on their toes.
@OddBeMe But that appears to be exactly the point. To post craziness in response to actual facts and logic. But you can't let it go without responding to it. Even if you ignore his responses. Because then it just looks like you became a megaphone for his nuttiness.
It's a common strategy that Trumpists use when "debating" called the "Gish Gallop". They attempt to set so many little fires that it would take ridiculous effort to put all of them out. Where possible try to anticipate some or most of these and squash them pre-emptively in your statement or question. You likely already know what they'll hit back with anyway. Another possibility is to call them out for straying from the original point and ask them to respond to the original question. Steve Bannon said that the object is to flood the room with bullshit. Muddy the situation so badly that people question what they alreadi knew was true.
@Ill_made_Knight I think you nailed it. Dude went from claiming dems should be arrested if for claiming Trump has responsibility for a trumpist claiming election fraud. . . when he lost by 50 points. . . to
claiming trump can declassify documents by looking at them.
@Ill_made_Knight First off fuck Steven Bannon he is a alt-right money hungry ass whip who doesn't represent the majority of the right he's a David Duke type figure who is would agree with the idea of white privilege (which doesn't exist) because no race has privileges over the other especially in the united states the only country that can get away with racism is china but then again you probably love the way china is governed.
second off what's wrong with having 1 standard for both parties unless we're living is a justice system which you support clearly. tell me why there's a difference which you believe is criminal between Trump taking legally classified documents where the president can say nothing because there is no process the president has to go through in order to be be declassified. VP which Biden was at the time he had to goes through that declassification process. but according to you Trump is 100% guilty vs biden who is 100% innocent or it's no big deal.
Trump by saying he didn't loose the 2020 election is incited violence but democrats can get away with Russia collusion where was none. or bernie sanders saying "republicans are trying to steal your health care" which a left wing but case shot up a congressional baseball game. please explain to me the different or ate you so much of a left wing partisan Hack that you can't see how there the exactly the same or worse.
also yes i like trump but i'm not a trump loyalist frankly i prefer Ron Desantis over trump. please tell me how i'm wrong. the only one of you 3 who can understand that there is a difference and he has acknowledged that the rules and standard are in democrats favor is @OddBeMe we still get into debates we may agree to disagree but we at least can come to a middle ground AKA same standards for democrats and republicans. which you seem uncomfortable of doing. think about what both left and right and left are saying on different which argument is more conservativing. example the right is against legal weed vs me i'm all for legal weed. i disagree with a lot of right wingers on abortion. i view abortion as first degree murder first-degree murder is without exception exception the mother has actively hired a hitman to murder her unborn baby she is guilty of 1st degree murder the abortionist is less guilty then of first degree murder then the mother he's guilty of 2nd degree so life in prison for the hired hitman abortionist and for the women who actively plant out to murder their unborn child.
I think the point of the preaching is to always be in "convincing" mode. He literally has to convince other people that they should want less rights than he enjoys. That it is actually a good thing.
What I don't understand is why be disingenuous about that?
I mean, we can take an example
American Indians;
So a couple of days ago, I responded to a poster like this guy, who claimed this conspiracy about the importing of brown people to replace "White" folks. He claimed it was the liberal conspiracy to wipe "White" people out.
This without being able to realize, the great replacement had already happened. We are all immigrants from someplace else when it comes to this land. And the Indigenous indeed have already been replaced.
He tried to make some kind of legal argument for the replacement, without realizing that the Indigenous claims are not based upon morality or ethics. It isn't based on human rights and decency.
It is based upon the law. Legal documents signed by the United States government. And if they so wanted, they could take back huge portions of land from this nation, legally.
It is just up until recently, the Indigenous thought everyone understood who actually owned the land. But I think after years of hearing how racists own this nation and hearing them tell other folks to get out, they just had enough of it.
So I guess that is why the maga group's arguments are usually about property other people own, thoughts that other people think, etc.
Because thinking about things rationally can only led to one result. Them being wrong.
First, Trump called for violent groups as well as anyone he could get to go to the Capitol and take it over. That is calling for violence. And he cheered them on as they tried to find Pence to hang him. They already had the gallows erected. So Trump is responsible for the violence there. As for the "declassified" documents, there is a procedure to follow to declassify documents, which includes recording each document declassified, which he did not do. He can't just say he did. Further, even the president cannot declassify nuclear data which is restricted and the Atomic Energy Commission was the entity which could, till it was replaced by the the Energy Research and Development Administration (ERDA) and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC), which now are the entities which regulate nuclear restricted data, including declassifying. Consider also that the pictures released show that the documents are still carrying classification which would have to have been removed if declassified. And when documents are declassified, they are available to everyone since they are not classified. Would you want every terrorist to have access to nuclear secrets?
I’m not being disingenuous I want to stand standard for both Democrats and Republicans. If what Trump did was inciting an insurrection, then so is bailing out violate rioters like what Harris and Biden did. Saying “you can’t be respectful to republicans”. Like maxine Waters said, and then Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens get Mom out of a restraint and Candice Owens assaulted please tell me how that’s not the same thing as what trump did? It’s not the capital? That’s probably your answer. So next time republicans protest schools to not teach CRT maybe we should burn down the school. That’s what democrats would do. We had the same standard until Clinton why can’t we have it now
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This guy is just a nut. Nobody blamed Bernie Sanders for the guy that shot up the Republican softball team and almost killed Steve Scalise even though the shooter worked on his campaign.. It is not Trumps fault and neither was the kidnapping of the Lindburgh baby.
@OddBeMe It is because people feel marginalized. Thye feel like they have no voice in their government and no control over their lives. This leads to frustration and the next thing you know somebody shows up with an AK-47 and starts shooting just to make a statement.
Ok…and is it responsible for Trump to go around hyping up those feelings simply for political gain? and when those hyped feelings turn into dead bodies, does he owe some recompense?
Trump is the law and order president. Don't you remember the summer of 2020? Democrats supported the rioters and kamala actually bailed some out of jail. To this day there have only been a few that have been prosecuted this is in direct contrast to the Jan 6th protesters. The FBI gas arrested over 900 people and most are languishing in jail two years later and are denied bail. Most have not been charged with a crime. A million people showed up in DC that day and it only resulted in a fewbroken windows and a broken door. The only fatality was an unarmed Air Force veteran who was murdered by a Capitol Police officer who was never charged.
In the summer of 2020 a white police officer strangled George Floyd. He was eventually found guilty of murder and sentenced. But it brought out the emotions of millions of black people who had been mistreated by your law and order police. They protested, and you would have too if you were black. And most of the protesters were peaceful until provoked by police. As for the Jan 6 protesters, they showed up intending violence and were extremely violent. Attempted to overthrow the election results which would mean to overthrow American government. They were beating police officers with poles and anything else they could find. Every video makes it clear that they were attacking out nation's capitol and the police who were protecting it. They were attempting to get to and harm the vice president and the Speaker of the House. Far more serious than the various protests that police amped up to violence. I don't know the numbers that were arrested, but I know that the Jan 6 insurrectionists were far more dangerous to the people in the Capitol and to America as a whole. As for the damage, you say "it only resulted in a fewbroken windows and a broken door." Many police were injured and many were gassed. The police were protecting the government officials and made it very visible that they were armed and would shoot anyone trying to get the crowd in past them. That woman caused her own death by trying to get in and let the crowd in. That incident was investigated and the officer was officially cleared of any wrong doing. He did not murder anyone. She and that crowd were acting under direction of Trump.
@OddBeMe Just when did Trump do that? It is Biden who calls anyone that disagrees with him a threat to democracy. He has his secret police investigating all his adversaries and stages early morning raids on their residences'. He is the real Nazi. Trump is all about law and order, freedom and the Constitution. You need to stop watching CNN and try to think for yourself.
@Red_Arrow Except January 6th was only one day. Not an entire summer. And its impossible to overtake any government unless you defeat them military or acquire their support.
You’re absolutely r*tarted if you think a bunch of angry guys smashing windows with flagpoles can overtake a government
@WhiteBoyChill Trump's idea was to get his followers to overturn the results of the voting and declare himself president for the next four years. And his idiot followers (like you) were supporting him. As far as retarded, if you did not notice that they did more than smash windows and they were trying to do much more, then you are severely retarded.
@WhiteBoyChill It is all available in videos and recordings, that is where I get it. It is the job of the military to follow orders of the president, not to decide for themselves what to do. And they were not there because Trump did not want them to prevent his followers overtaking the legitimate government officials inside. His followers had no legal right to do so, but he told them to and they tried. The shit you are shoveling is the BS!
The only - ONLY - person responsible for this is the gunman. No one else. He acted of his own free will, and could have decided not to do this, but he went ahead and did it anyway.
11.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
I don't think Trump told him to pull the trigger, but Trump is definitely responsible for the "if I lose, the election was rigged" attitude among Republican politicians. I have yet to hear A Democratic politician expressing such views. Ironically, almost all the people arrested for election fraud, all 33 of them are Republicans.
No, that guy is responsible for believing in and doing what he did. Trump is responsible for spreading bullshit and creating an atmosphere of hate, but only stupid people buy into it. They must be held responsible for their actions, as Trump must be for his.
@Cassie88 um yeah. Not saying trump is guilty here…this Q is a broad forum. But courts actually come down harder on those inciting or hiring others to do the crime. Ie, hitmen.
Hitmen are PAID to do what they do, and as for incitement, those responsible for acting on such encouragement are still held accountable for their actions, they still acted of their own free will.
@Cassie88 you can still be charged for inciting crime. Again, I’m not convinced really Trump did that. Though his other crimes are woafully just as bad…
This is so ridiculous and so blatantly partisan. People are responsible for their own actions and last I checked Trump wasn't the one to pull the trigger.
@msc545 Right, but I know you dopes are desperate for a distraction. When every one of you shitlibs condemns your own party for its violent rhetoric around the BLM riots and Biden's ranting speech about ultra secret maga resulting in a teenager getting run over then I'll consider that you have something relevant to say about current topics.
Is that how you cucks who are financially dependent on your wives console yourselves? Apparently it is. No one has to pay for sex- they can just bang the wives of cucks like you or, if they're in a pinch, fat single moms like you see everywhere throughout Texas.
Every day you remind us of the low quality of humanities education in Texas today. Go run along and ask Mrs. Odd for an allowance so you can get off GAG and leave the house. No one is willing to babysit you on GAG while you're on Personality #3 for a few hours.
You really need to get out more and spend less time in your leftist echo chamber. It's rare to encounter even another leftist as delusional as you. Maybe it's a cuck thing to be as delusional as you are.
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