Households at Poverty /r Below Poverty Level Incomes Having Kids. Is it abusive to have children when adults can barely afford themselves. READ INSIDE?

[BigWhiteWolf87]

No poll because there's plenty of trolls on this site that just read the headlines. Not inside.

My father was a federal government social worker for 30 years. He investigated cases of abuse. He was asked to the Supreme Court as a witness on massive abuse cases. His primary job was child services & child protection.

I have worked with low income households working in addiction & mental health for 10 years

I have a very cut and dry REALITY about such households. And that

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Not only is a "parent" abusing the child in their care - by not having the money to provide adequte food or shelter or heating / lighting if they can't easily pay the bills.

But they are also setting the child up to be abused, harassed, bullied, etc at school because they can't afford $10 clothes at K-Mart or they can't afford school supplies.

Furthermore, average household that can barely afford the adults themselves - and is stretched to or past limits with children - is usually prone to higher degrees of:

Alcoholism.
Criminal Activities - Theft, Prostitution, etc.
Domestic abuse.
Drug abuse.

WHY do you think police more OFTEN respond to familial issues in the LOWER end of cities, in WELFARE area, on the WRONG side of the tracks.

It's not because the police are bored.

It's because STATISTICALLY issues in SUCH households & areas are HIGHER than elsewhere. Living hand to mouth & barely able to survive is hard. Many people can't cope.

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The comicality is

Society as a whole says that if you can't keep a dog or cat with adequate food, shelter, water & even toys that you are abusing the animal and guilty of animal cruelty.

But when it comes to children in similar situations society as a whole doesn't really care.

[lightbulb27]

I read all that, thank you for your service! Yes, having kids that can't be cared for is going to create risks of abuse, and put a lot of those people together, with broken families and fragile support systems and community, it's going to be a mess. That is what we have all over the place.

But that's part of the issue, what's the other parts?

I agree and disagree, eventhough I don't have your context, I best you by 20 years... so that makes me opinionated, but with an open mind to your insights.

My wifes family was poor... and every kid in the family and all the offspring turned out educated, successful, productive, and good members of society. Why didn't theyall turn into "nut" job psychos with guns? My grandparents were poor, my parents were very low middle class for quite some time. All the kids turned out at least ok.

Answer... good loving parents, basic needs met, values instilled, discipline, opportunity to learn and grow. We had low levels of stress and risk because we didn't live in a cesspool of corruption.

Some people, cultures are broken. It isn't the lack of food... although food is essential. It may even be more the quality of food, work ethic, values, cycles of trauma passed on that multiple, security.

This is all basic stuff to any animal. Hell... dogs be the same. Take a scared to death dog from a shelter and within a few months they are happy as a clam if given a good environment, caveat with some lasting damage.

Put leave the dog in a bad place, it will stay that way or get worse.

Humans aren't dogs, it's an analogy.

[BigWhiteWolf87]

I said below poverty line, for all your dithering you can't read

[BigWhiteWolf87]

Actually you're lacking about 20 years of experience when you consider between myself & dad there's 40 years of experience. More like 60 years total due to the work level & intensity he was doing.

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You are a rarity.

The majority of people on poverty or below and specifically on welfare do not succeed. If that was not the case then the poverty line would cease to exist. If that was not the case there would not be multiple generations within the same household on welfare.

Reality.

As for your analogy of dogs. Responsible persons sterilize dogs & cats that do not contribute successfully to the gene pool. Responsible persons sterilize dogs & cats that have unsavory genetics.

An addict having children
Majority of addicts or drunkards' children end up as addicts or drunkards or criminals themselves because they grew up thinking this sort of unacceptable behavior is okay as their parents did it.

It is far more damaging to put a child into foster care or orphanges where abuse - sexual, physical & emotional - can be quite predominant.

Never mind being shuffled from house to house & then tossed out of the system at 18 with NO real skills to survive in the real world.

Than it is to hormally sterilize people at this level of poverty or inability and if they happen to right themselves unsterilize them.

[lightbulb27]

You see the human damage caused by this and it sounds like you are suggesting such people should be sterilized to avoid propagating? Is that right?

You know as well then that none of this is "logic", not many people are making logical choices... their hormones and emotions are. They startup the mating pattern around 13+.

I'm not positive the poverty line for those I noted. All I'm saying is when you have parents with values, character whom love their children, their children do better... generally speaking... if they have a chance. The environment provides limits. That excludes "faith", eventhough I think faith can help people get through difficulty and provide guide.

All of what you are talking about is in essence... trauma creating more trauma.

As I said, it is abusive if a person cannot love their child and care for them, they are creating more trouble. This is a reason I disagree with republicans limitations they are now pushing.

[LazerBean]

Good answer. In my experience, it seems like people like this girl, who push that being poor is a form of abuse, have a lot of supremacist/eugenics ideologies. As she has well enough demonstrated that she does, in fact, have.

[gorydetails]

Let's hear your proposals to keep poor people from having children.

[BigWhiteWolf87]

Sterilization - they even did it in the US just a few decades ago. Career criminals & those with mental health defencies were sterilized. Now if only Americans knew their own history the world wouldn't be such a fuck up.

[gorydetails]

And if you become not poor, what then?

[BigWhiteWolf87]

Sterilization nowadays is mostly reversal even for men, insertion of hormonal implants make you sterile. Remove = fertile.

[gorydetails]

And who is paying for all this? Who is enforcing it?

[BigWhiteWolf87]

Hormonal sterilization can last years with one implant so it's relatively inexpensive.

Particularly compared to the money tax payers already pay into for people on welfare.

A large number of which are just scammers. I've seen multiple generations living on welfare. Anyone below poverty line & specifically on welfare or social insurance benefits should be hormonally sterilized. A LOT only have children because it only equals a bigger pay cheque.

If they happen to get above poverty line or off welfare & can maintain that for say 3-5 years then they can have the implant removed.

[gorydetails]

and how are you going to enforce it?

[BigWhiteWolf87]

And easy to enforce.

[gorydetails]

how?

[purplepoppy]

Here's something from the UK you might like. People saying they can't afford a toothbrush but churning out kid after kid.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nick-ferrari-toothbrush-poverty-comments-reaction_uk_63e20ae0e4b07c0c7e0c4afd

What amazes me is how proud these people are to have 8 kids and no job, plus they look down their nose at childless working couples.

The real tragedy is these kids are years behind their peers. Many can barely read or dress themselves. They're violent, literally don't know what No means but know every swear word going. They'll grow up unemployable
and perpetually pregnant.

[LazerBean]

No. A parent can and will provide adequately for their children of they want to, even the poor ones. If a child goes hungry in America, it's exclusively because a parent chose themselves over their children. If a parent wants to protect and provide for their children, they will. I know that as someone who has spent time in the poverty level as a child, and I know that as someone whose whole mother's side grew up in poverty. Its different in some countries, but in America it is 100% the parents choice and fault of their children goes hungry or gets neglected.

[jimmy2]

So true one problem is that you get on warfeare the government keeps you on that fisoucs circle then add drinking and drugs then it get supper bad for kids

[Jamie05rhs]

@OddBeMe just said this yesterday.