Agree or Disagree: The 40 hour work week was created around the assumption you would have somebody at home doing your domesticated labor for free?

[coachTanthony]

Agree

Disagree

[sage2021]

Agree: it wasn't that long ago in history when people were married, bought a house, had children, and the wife was a homemaker while the husband was the bread winner.
It was kind of unheard of to be divorced in the 50's. But my parents did it. Then women had to get a job to support the children and without any child support in some cases.
Jump to the 80's when Reagan was president. America went into a recession and the family needed two incomes, so the wife had to get a job as well. And it seems like ever since then it's been that way.
I always thought the 40 hour work week was way too long as well as 8 hours was also pushing the envelope - after lunch I could hardly stay awake. I had to start drinking coffee ☕ to make it to the end of the day.
After putting in my 8 hour, really 9 including lunch time, I had to drive and pick up my son at daycare.
Somehow things never changed for me. Even when I got married I always worked.

[sage2021]

Thank you for MHGIRL 🌹😎

[Smashingdoozy]

This isn't something you agree or disagree with. It's a literal fact.

The 40 hr work week was implemented when households only had (and needed) a single income. The man went to work and the women stayed home to cook, clean and take care of the children.

Now nothing's changed for the men they still go to work and work 40 hrs but now the women also go to work and work 40 hrs then they come home and cook, clean and take care of the children, still.



All day, every day
Therapist, mother, maid
Nymph then a virgin, nurse than a servant
Just an appendage, live to attend him
So that he never lifts a finger
Twenty-four seven, baby machine
So he can live out his picket fence dreams
It's not an act of love if you make her
You make me do too much labor.

[Smashingdoozy]

I guess I should say that it's not like they thought about it, it's just how it was at the time, nobody would have guessed that in the future that two incomes would be needed in order to just be able to live, let alone buy a home.

[Soteris]

I disagree. You are making a big assumption that there was any regards for the well being of the worker when coming to that arrangement. Capitalism specifically encourages corporations to exploit their workers for as much as they can get away with. As such the 40 hour work week was a compromise forced upon them by labor unions as opposed to the much harsher worker conditions before then.

It is not something that the worker willingly chose and the corporations are also unhappy that they could not drag more hours out of you, although if you look at USA or Japan then unpaid overtime is fairly common so yeah.. Point is, its not something agreed upon with a plan for the well-being of the worker so no considerations was taken regarding any potential house work you had to do in the first place. That is squarely your own problem to solve so to speak.

[coachTanthony]

No need to make it personal. I just simply ask questions for spirited debate lol

[jshm2]

Nope. It was Henry Ford, I think, who suggested the 40-hour work week after he deduced that working more yielded only a small increase in productivity.

There are many countries that do not have the 40 hour work week standard and many are far happier and more productive.

[coachTanthony]

Yeah 40 hours is outdated and way too much. Most people only actually work 3-4 hours a day the rest is hanging out in the break room and chatting lol

[Jersey2]

This is a good quick read that answers the question:

www.npr.org/.../how-the-40-hour-work-week-became-the-norm

[Miristheiss]

For free?
Why did you use that verbiage?
The crux of the matter is that the house work someone is doing... they are doing it to their OWN HOUSE. They are taking care of the place they live. It is their own house. Why would you not take care of your own house? Who on the earth get paid money by someone else to clean their own home?
You get paid if you go into someone ELSE'S house and you clean THEIR house, then afterwards you leave and go back to your own home.

"Doing YOUR domestic labor for FREE"? Why did you use that verbiage?
A couple that lives together or is married. That is their home.

[Smashingdoozy]

Fact of the matter is that housework is still considered labour. When we look at it from a scientific view point women on average are doing more physical and mental labour than men and half of that labour is unpaid. That's not saying they should be paid for it, just that it is what is happening and it's not exactly fair.

[Miristheiss]

@Smashingdoozy
Fair... what do you mean?

[Smashingdoozy]

Not fair that women are doing the majority of unpaid labour.

[Miristheiss]

@Smashingdoozy
Not if he works and she is home.
Why are women so against making a beautiful, loving home for the couple?
If she isn't working outside of the home why wouldn't she?

[Smashingdoozy]

That's not what we are talking about though.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy If they don't have a career it IS paid. They're getting paid in room and board as opposed to having to get a job and do real work.

I've been on both sides of it. The stay at home is way simpler. It doesn't take 40 hours a week to ready a house. If it does then you're living like a pig.

[Smashingdoozy]

@BoopBoopBeep nobody said that it takes 40 hrs a week.

[Smashingdoozy]

You should read my opinion 🙂 maybe it will clear things up for you

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy Au contraire, people say that all the time. "You never help around the house." "I go to the office all day I shouldn't have to". If you're only working on the house 10 hours a week you're dang right I don't help you out, do it yourself or what are you brining to the table?

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy Haha this clearly did not include my house, where I was the bread winner and did most of the work around the house. I didn't get paid "extra" for the housework. I've lived with various women my entire adult life. I've never known any of them to do as much around the house as I do. Where are all these women in this study I'm hanging out in the wrong places.

[Smashingdoozy]

@BoopBoopBeep you're incapable of reading I see.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy Where is the disconnect?

You wrote: Fact of the matter is that housework is still considered labour. When we look at it from a scientific view point women on average are doing more physical and mental labour than men and half of that labour is unpaid. That's not saying they should be paid for it, just that it is what is happening and it's not exactly fair.

Yes, find and well. I've read it a few times. It does not change anything with my initial statement that this is not reflective of what I have witnessed with myself or a great many of my male friends that women are doing more labor than men. Any stay at home woman working less than 40 hours is prima facia doing less.

I'm quite interested in having this discussion with you but I can't imagine which part I'm not reading.

[Smashingdoozy]

@BoopBoopBeep "That's not saying they should be paid for it" you just skip right over that or what?

[Smashingdoozy]

We aren't talking about stay at home women. We are talking about working women as a vast majority of households require multiple incomes in order to function. As I said you should read my opinion.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy I'm sorry perhaps I have a framing reference error. I've never known a household that REQUIRED multiple incomes to function. It may have been desired for extra blow money, but required? No never seen that, which is typically why the woman is working part time at something she's passionate about. Actual wage slaves that NEED that money are possibly living above their means. If you're a barista in San Diego I imagine that would require more money, but you don't NEED to live in San Diego if you only have low pay skills. I apologize because I saw nothing of such need in what I quoted to you from your posting, perhaps that was in a different one. Sorry to muddle the point.

[Smashingdoozy]

@BoopBoopBeep well congrats on being incredibly privileged and surrounded by privileged people? Your experience isn't everyone's experience.

You also quoted my comment not my opinion...

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy Thanks, it is nice to be here. I wasn't always, but I said I'm not keeping up with the Joneses anymore and stopped living outside my means. Left the coast, took the pay cut that comes from that, but spent less afterwards. I spent years getting my spending in check and my credit score up from 500 to 820, even hitting 850 once.

When I Crtl-F'ed your name that's the first non-response I got from you. I'm real new to the platform so sorry if I missed a fundamental component of how it works. It happens ;) Best to you.

[Smashingdoozy]

@BoopBoopBeep as someone who has spent a lot of my life relocating, I know it's not cheap, you're looking at anywhere from 2k to 15k depending where you are moving to and that's just within the USA. Over half of people living in the USA are living paycheck to paycheck. Let's not forget to mention the hassle of finding a new job, a new healthcare provider, new schools if you have children, day-care if you need that, somewhere to live. Also leaving behind your support systems so If something goes wrong early into your relocation you're essentially fucked.

[Smashingdoozy]

So no relocation doesn't solve the issue of needing two incomes to survive for the majority of families. May have worked for you, and I'm glad it did but its just not an option for a lot of people.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy Yep. All those are valid points. But play the victim or be the hero. Choice is everyone's to make.

[Smashingdoozy]

@BoopBoopBeep this isn't that kind of situation. Poverty is systemic, if you are born into a certain class you are likely to stay within that class. Poor stay poor, rich stay rich.

[BoopBoopBeep]

@Smashingdoozy I know. I was born into generational poverty. It's a MF, as they say. When you're hoping to find duct tape at your friend's house to mend your shoes nobody is like "yeah this is awesome."

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

People are so lazy these days… Like working 40 hours a week makes it impossible to do housework or cooking? Yet I do it and others do it… I mean come on, cleaning and cooking is way more eat these days with all the gadgets and technology out there.

[coachTanthony]

Well if that’s all you want to do is work and clean sure.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Cuz it takes soooo long to clean 🙄 and I work 40 hours but have 3 days off so… And even when I didn’t, I had a husband who didn’t think cleaning and cooking was woman’s work…We did it together and you know if there’s kids they can help too, it teaches them both responsibility and independence

[TonyMetal___86]

@Brainsbeforebeauty i'm watching sponge 👀

[coachTanthony]

40 hours a week doesn’t work anymore no matter who is cleaning m. It was created under a false premise of the woman being home cleaning.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@TonyMetal___86 what are you watching 🤷‍♀️

[TonyMetal___86]

I'm watching what you're saying naughty sponge ☻

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@TonyMetal___86 and? So?

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

People whine about working 40 hours but how hard did our ancestors have it without all the gadgets we have today?

[TonyMetal___86]

@Brainsbeforebeauty nothing ☻

[Lionman95]

I disagree because if the government thought every man has a woman at home than 40 hours of work a week sounds too low to me, that would have been more. Since 40 hours is nowadays at least where I come from the normal amount of work per week, some work 48 hours but few jobs here in Germany have a normal work load of more than that.
If you said 50/60 hours I´d say yes.

[nolabels]

Unless there is some secret that I'm not aware of, the 40 hour work week is the result of negotiations between workers organizations and employers, having absolutely nothing to do with domestic labor.

[NamerOfStars]

Right. We came DOWN to a 40-hour work week, not UP.

[OfMiceandMen]

I suppose, but, that is not the reality anymore. I know a lot of people that work more than 40 hours anymore. However, some only work it to avoid having to clean their own home and actually pay someone to do it.

[SaoirseS]

Not really sure, but I lean towards disagree. I found this piece interesting:

The History of the 40-Hour Work Week (and Why It Needs to Go) (actiplans. com)

[SaoirseS]

https://www.actiplans.com/blog/40-hour-work-week

[Red-Blaze]

Its cute there is an assumption it was done with any real consideration to someone life balance and not more about whats the max you can push someone

[Nikki1989]

You know there is not much housework to do if you don't make a mess in the first place.

[bolverk]

The 40-hour work weeks with five working days with no cut in wages was instigated by Henry Ford after he discovered that working 48-hour work weeks yielded only a small increase in productivity that lasted a short period of time. Other companies/manufacturers followed suit.

[Redstang88]

Not really. What’s the issue with doing housework on an 8 hour day?

[legalboxers]

40 hr work week... 8 hours a day (minus a lunch break and overtime)
9-5, 8-4.. Monday - Fri. Weekends Off..
typical.. But did not compensate for life...

[John_Doesnt]

It's a stupid idea to have humans working as much as they are sleeping 5 days a week.

[RobT312]

I don’t think so. I think 5 days of work was based on productivity and Sat. And Sun being easy off for rest and religious reasons

[NathanDavis]

is Andrew Tate free yet?

[coachTanthony]

Yup.

[NathanDavis]

he can leave his place and the country whenever he wants? or just out of jail?

[coachTanthony]

I have no idea lol

[Adam1978]

No because it was longer before and they already assumed it at that time.

[Avicenna]

No, it predated the growth of the middle class in the US

[CuriousMufuxka]

Domesticated labor? 40 hour work week to hook up your family? Look I know you're 8 years older than me and the '50's are long gone.. But even in the 70's both of my parents worked.

[TonyMetal___86]

Idc about what they think, if i'll get married, my future wife will become a housewife, period!

[Iron_Man]

Not free she gets a free roof over her head and everything else

[msc545]

I agree - and 40 hours is far too much.

[DizzyDesii]

I doubt it