https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30047834/
The fact that they have given a hormone blocker to kids that was also used to chemicaly sterilize sex offenders is wild..
I suspect this might be a problem in the goof ole USA but it isn;t a problem in Australia. If a kid believes that they were born the worng gender and they want to change it then normally they have to wait until they are 18 to do so of their own volition. However it may be that after cosulting several doctors the child and the child's parent may elect to initiate gender changing "care" prior to puberty but this would be done under the care of multiple doctors and psychiatrists.
So the issue of parents abusing their children with gender changing drugs just does NOT exist here and I suspect that it doesn't exist in the USA either.
Some people have beliefs that homesexuality is a sin. They are entitled to their opinion but, remember, it's not compulsary so you live you life YOUR way but keep your nose out of other people's lives if they choose to live their life a different way.
I know this isn't about homesexuality but the same this applies to changing your physical gender to match the gender that you believe you should have been. It's not compulsary, no one is forcing YOU to change your gender but just because you happen to have been born into the correctly gendered body doesn't mean that all other people were.
Instead of being a bigot and trying to force your idea onto other people - just treat other people with the same respect that you expect from them.
And stop spreading misinformation.
It very much so exist in the US. If you look it up you'll see it:)
But thanks for commenting!
20 years and permanent loss of their children.
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u Hormone blockers are reversible and are given to cis kids as well. There should be no penalties for trying to help kids achieve the correct puberty later in life that matches who they identify as. Y'all need to stop drinking the kool-aid that these conservative talking heads are feeding you.
No thats incorrect you can do your research I put link above:)
But thanks for commenting!
You do the research if you want. Im not gonna force anything
It's not incorrect and let me help you along with your research
@kylee2437 yeah thats what I mean. Non of them will be able to go back to like they were before. Esspecially not when they take hormone blockers and hormones..
And here are a few for cis kids being advertised for precocious puberty
"Use of GnRH analogues also might have long-term effects on:
Growth spurts.
Bone growth.
Bone density.
Fertility, depending on when the medicine is started."
Your own source. Good source by the way! Many people dont know how to check if a source is valid or not and you do clearly. Thats why I added source too cause YT ain't trustworthy
@kylee2437 we never doubted we were girls growing up. Trans kids do. Hormone blockers just stop puberty from happening until they get old enough to start hrt. It still gives them time to change their minds if they suddenly decide they are not trans anymore, but even that is rare to where they change their mind.
@kylee2437 agree!!!
Let kids be kids! Plus even if you transition you still can't do the only thing the opposite sex can which is either give birth/get someone else pregnant
I've seen conflicting information on whether the treatments are fully reversible. Do you know of any studies?
@Ez-Bri-Z_v2 I’ve had body dysmorphia since I was age 11 years old that almost caused me to die and that is because I didn’t understand how my body looked. I am now a gymrat and look healthy, and that is because I matured, aged and learned my body more. Kids should not have the ability to determine “who they are” at that age.
Might have does not mean will. There are some side effects with every medication known to man. Hell, Tylenol can technically kill you but people still take it safely.
In most cases though, it is reversible
I'm also still stuck on this idea of fertility to begin with. Why is this the measuring stick of whether or not someone can transition? What if they don't even want kids? There have also been documented cases of transwomen getting women pregnant and trans men having babies so it obviously doesn't affect fertility in everyone.
@Ez-Bri-Z_v2 why should children be able to determine their life completely out though? My brother at age 13 told my dad he wanted to take body builder steroids. Do you think my dad should’ve allowed that?
@kylee2437 yeah im very happy you got to grow up to be who you always should have been! You are very inspiring!
That's the thing. It's not just the children waking up one day and determining they want to be a boy/girl. There is also conversations with the parents and therapists and doctors who are all involved and speaking with the child. Most times gender affirming care is just a haircut, change of name and clothes. When they get older, hormone blockers. When they become of age then they actually start hormone replacement.
By then after years of therapy and living as their true gender, it should be obvious they are ready for hrt. That's why they don't generally give them hrt before 16. It's just the blockers.
The equivalent of your question though is saying no to the steroids (hrt) but buying him weights and exercise equipment (social transition and hormone blockers)
First - thank you for finding articles!
In www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9793415/ there is the statement:
" A. question that arises in the course of transgender care is whether GnRHa therapy has long-term adverse medical consequences, including effects on bone health. Over half of an individual’s bone density is acquired during adolescence, and transgender youth assigned male at birth are known to be at higher risk for low bone density even before GnRHa therapy.7 Understanding whether GnRHa use impacts fracture risk will be the critical long-term question that must be answered in future studies. "
That seems to imply that this is an open question
The other article www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/
referes to treatment of girls with a specific pre-existing condition, so not that relevant here
So, I disagree with your point - but very much appreciate the opportunity to talk about it rationally and to find references
So if your son says he wants to be a girl, instead of thinking it could just be a phase, your first instinct is to start him on puberty blockers? And you don't realize just how crazy that is?
@kylee2437 your experiences, while tragic (and im grateful you came out of them better), are not everyone else experiences and it would be unfair to say that others shouldn't get to make choices for their body when you got to make choices for yours.
@richardcory bone density has been brought up as a potential concern but not enough is known about it yet to deny the benefits that hormone blockers do bring. Would you also recommend we stop giving them to those with precocious puberty?
@JoeMichael67 no, I would start with therapy. He's only 10 so he hasn't started puberty yet. If he was persistent I would then allow for a hairstyle change, name change and wardrobe change. All of which can be switched back easily if he (then she) decided to revert back. Hormone blockers are not generally given as a first resort.
@kylee2437 hormone blockers aren't adult oriented. We don't go through puberty in our adulthood so there is no point in delaying until 18( to argue against something you said in your own post on this question). People need to stop being confused between the differences in hormone blockers and hormone replacement which are two very different things.
That's a bit of "head in the sand" mentality there. For 99% of transitioners, it's perfectly normal and welcome. Their dysphoria is lessened by it. Suicide rates go down when they are allowed to transition.
I don't know the medical risks of precocious puberty. Today is the fist I heard of that condition, so I don't have an opinion on that.
Do you know a study on the benefits of puberty blockers given to children? Any that have tracked them for say 10 years? (maybe the treatment hasn't been used that long). Ideally it would compare with similar medical expense / effort on therapy along with allowing gender identification just without medical intervention.
Therapy is what is suggesting they start transition so the answer would be both
Well, I have word of mouth from several friends who are trans for one.
Removed some comments from Shamalien for being rude and factually incorrect. Mostly for being rude though.
@kylee2437 and that's great! Transitioning wasn't right for them. For a lot of people it is and depriving them of treatment is just cruel
That's the point though, the blockers are reversible (except maybe a potential at bone density loss. This really still needs to be researched though, I'm just conceding this point to make it fair.)
If you want to wait til 18 for hormone replacement, I think I'd be fine with it, but don't make them go through the wrong puberty and require costly surgeries when they get older (IF they get older and don't commit suicide before then from dysphoria). Blockers are fine. Hrt is what brings about permanent changes and for that I'll concede the age of 18.
@kylee2437 I'm also ok with agreeing to disagree. Thank you for being civil in our debates once again.
You know what I've never understood is facial tattoos. It's not attractive at all.
As for tattoos in general for minors.. im torn on this one because tattoo removal exists and I believe in personal freedoms even for minors. We all do stupid things as kids and need to learn from them to grow as an adult. As a mother of two myself, I wouldn't want them getting anything that early. Hell, we still haven't pierced our daughters ears until she is old enough to make the decision for herself.
I think preserving personal rights to bodily autonomy is paramount. Not sure if that's more of a conservative or liberal stance at this point. Ask an anti vaxxer and it's conservative stance. Ask someone for abortions and it's a liberal one.
Point is, that's why I feel so strongly about this topic. I have several friends and friends of friends who transitioned and are happier for it. For those who didn't transition in their teens, they would have killed for the opportunity to. We have to do our best to, yes, protect children but sometimes that means letting them make choices for their bodies that they feel is best.
Does that mean we let them go on a diet of only soda and cookies? No, of course not. But does it mean letting them express themselves in a manner that fits their personality? Yeah, I think it does.
Interesting. I've never had a tattoo so wasn't sure how that all worked. It gives them a cleaner canvas to work from though?
Oof. That is expensive. Hope my kids get good jobs if they ever get a tattoo cause I'm not paying for a removal lmao
@kylee2437 I think the point is that the kid isn't deciding this on their own. They have parents and therapists that are guiding the actual therapy so that a decision that is made is thought out. The only sad thing I can say is if you have a kid in this situation and you want to prevent therapy you're uncomfortable with then you should do that for your child. Worrying about what others do for their kids, as understandably concerned as you are, is not your business. I don't mean to say you can't discuss things like this here because this has been a healthy conversation mainly from what I can see. My point is parents and kids aren't just deciding to do things without doctors and therapist supervision.
What I think would be more helpful is that if parents could get along with other parents that are actually in the position of needing to find help for their child and that we all have empathy. Teach our kids to be empathetic to others that are different regardless of what is for you as an individual. I have heard from friends that are teachers at how one kid in a school can be completely ostracized and targeted from other parents like they're criminals for being different.
The only other thing not sad thing*
@Friendlybro79 that should be an even bigger red flag that it’s not a stand alone decision which it should be at the age of 18 or older.
@kylee2437 I understand your point but this isn't always that simple. It's easy to say this when you don't have a kid in this which brings me to my point. Parent your child as you see fit and let others do the same given doctors and therapists are involved. I don't think anyone can or should (not that you're saying this or mean to do this) force their will onto another parents child.
If you wanted to do this for your child then see how that pans out for you. Every parent (hopefully) is trying to do what's best for the kid. This means you're going to handle situations like this potentially different. As long as one group doesn't remove the option to care for another child you have to step back and let medical professionals do what they can with a child. Removing that option is partly why some kids commit suicide because their state won't allow them the care they need to live their life how they see fit.
Also at 9 I knew I was heterosexual even though I didn't know the word. I knew I liked girls. I didn't need to I turn 18 to know that was true. If you're not experiencing feelings of another person, or can't understand what that's like, then you can agree to disagree. You can also not prevent other parents from taking the advice of doctors and therapists because you don't agree. You may not be doing that but others are via politics.
I don't believe the data that suggests that hormone blockers are reversible and do not cause harm. I assume that those studies are performed by pharma manufacturers and those who profit n some way. Science has been corrupted by money.
It's like the studies that said mRNA jabs were safe and effective.
You can't just assume. Do actual research and not just go off your gut feeling.
I did my research on the jabs and, as it turned out, "The Science" was bogus and I was right not to get it.
I haven't done much research on hormone blockers, so I haven't read many reliable sources. All I can say is, I do not trust pharma or university studies or media reports because they have vested interest in pushing drugs and transgenderism.
I read quite a bit and seen enough interviews on the issue of "affirmative care" to know that it's not about helping kids. They are being preyed upon. Affirmative care is a profitable, fast growing industry.
The problem with research is, as with covid and the jabs, every effort is made to silence information that doesn't support the desired narrative.
@Friendlybro79 sexual orientation isn’t the same as gender
@kylee2437 I didn't say it was. It was the only way I could make my point personally. That being you can feel a certain way at a young age to know who you are. Maybe not the best analogy but the best one I could make personally.
@Friendlybro79 yes but who is to say that doesn’t change for other people? If we are going off of sexual orientation, I know many people that experimented while young and now are fully with men and only want to be with men. You can’t say that your sureness fits all scenarios. Kids go through phases all the time depending. If someone is truly trans, I don’t see the difference on them waiting until 18 to make permanent changes.
Because by then, puberty will mostly would have occurred, so blockers won't do anything. Starting them on blockers earlier prevents the wrong puberty from happening, and if for some reason they decide not to transition anymore, easy, just take them off blockers and puberty resumes again like normal.
@Ez-Bri-Z_v2 saying that “wrong puberty happening” when it’s natural puberty is such a red flag
Maybe it sounds that way but for them that's exactly what it is. Transmen forced to grow breasts just to be forced to have them removed later in life as they transition. Or transwomen who end up growing beards and need to pay thousands of dollars in electrolysis to have it removed.
@kylee2437 @Ez-Bri-Z_v2 feel free to continue going on. This conversation is not going anywhere. Good luck
@Friendlybro79 will it ever? It’s very hard these days for people to take into consideration that they just need to allow kids to be kids.
I don’t have a direct answer for this but hormone blockers should be banned until age 18.
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Opinion
13Opinion
Life in prison, - after they are checked out for Munchausen syndrome by proxy (MSP) -- or Munchausen by proxy -- is a psychological disorder marked by attention-seeking behaviour by a caregiver through those who are in their care, as they must have a serious mental disorder to put their children through the pain and mental distress just to keep them in the limelight - and not let off with the soft option of a mental care facility.
Yup..👍🏻
Sterilize them so they don’t curse any more children with their idiocy.
life-long community service in support of other kids de-transitioning and helping clean up the scene of every suicide in their city/county until they reach the age of 65.
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The issue is the doctors providing this treatment. I'm opposed to medical treatments for gender reassignment for children.
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So if you have a kid that is in this situation and you want to deny these sorts of treatments for them then do it. Hopefully your tough love works. Not sarcastic seriously mean it for the kids sake.
@Friendlybro79 it’s not about “tough love”, it’s about leaving it up to your grown adult child at that point. People need to stop with the “if you don’t agree with this you are a homophobe, transphobe” saying. If I have a child and they decide at 18 they want to be trans, I’ll be supportive towards it. I will NEVER entertain the idea of my kid permanently changing their body under the age of 18. Even with tattoos. My parent allowed me to get a tattoo with 17, and to this day after my own life choices , my child can wait until 18.
@kylee2437 I didn't say any of the things you're bringing up. To say it again in lesser words, I said you should raise your child your way and not tell others how to raise theirs.
I'm not going to debate the same thing over and over. You're not being stopped from raising your kid the way you see fit.
@Friendlybro79 yes however you ARE affecting your child’s grown life when you make such permanent decisions for them at a young age. That deciding factor should be on them selves ONLY with the help of a therapist. And you have debated down a bunch of comments. Everyone on the left side need to stop calling people transphobes because they don’t want their kids because unnaturally coaxed into that life
Convict them of felony child abuse and permanently re-home their children with a prohibition against ever contacting them. Also, permanent sterilization so that no matter where they go, neither one of them can ever have kids again.
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Depends on why the kid is getting it. In most cases, life in prison. But I can understand it if a kid is getting it if the child gets puberty extremely early. If used for trans shit, absolutely prison.
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instead of killing livestock like cattle, pigs, chicken etc. to feed carnivorous zoo animals like tigers, bears, crocs etc. these parents can be the replacement
I think they should not be allowed near children as they are clearly a threat to the child’s safety. I see them as no better than drug dealers
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What is the standard sentence for child abuse?
Depends on how severe it is. Can be anything from a few month to years
then 10-20 years.
So, instead of teaching our children they can and SHOULD BE whoever they want to be, we'd rather do this shit?
A prison sentence of few years because i how is the lineage going to carry on, i want kids.
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Sterilize them, then close them in a sanitarium
I don’t understand their morality here!!
Life sentence
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Third one
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