Are you a history buff? I am. Were you aware of the history of Ukraine?

[Lliam]

I wasn't aware of the history of Ukraine until I read the following chapter from Cynthia Chung's book, ‘The Empire on Which the Black Sun Never Set: the Birth of International Fascism and Anglo-American Foreign Policy’, posted on her 'Through a Glass Darkly' website.

Just as I wasn't aware of the origins of WWI until I read, 'Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War' by Gerry Docherty and James MacGregor.

TRUE history can be eye opening. It is far more complex and nuanced than the simplistic, ideological versions that we are fed.

"Kievan Rus’ was a federation in Eastern-Northern Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century and was made up of a variety of peoples including East Slavic, Baltic and Finnic, and was ruled by the Rurik dynasty." (see map in attached document)

"Kievan Rus’ would fall during the Mongol invasion of the 1240s, however, different branches of the Rurik dynasty would continue to rule parts of Rus’ under the Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia (modern-day Ukraine and Belarus)."

Continue to read in the following book chapter. Learn about the evolution of Ukrainian nationalism, collaboration with German Nazis, dreams of a racially "pure" Ukraine, ethnic cleansing and, after WWII, use of Nazi (nationalists) by the CIA.

https://cynthiachung.substack.com/p/how-the-ukrainian-nationalist-movement-f4f

[Soteris]

Yeah, that is bullshit. The history of Ukraine has a lot more geopolitics and economics and a lot less "nationalism" and nazism. There was some, granted, but the idea of nazism and nationalism has infected the slavic world since around ww2 so that is not a surprise.

However, you can't attribute this to why they for example wanted to invite the Nazi Germans to overthrow the USSR since that was all about "Fuck the USSR" and less to do with "race purity" or whatever. The people living in the Ukrainian region of the USSR were routinely marginalized and discriminated against during the USSR period so obviously any invading force that promises to remove their natural enemy, even if it means replacing them, are a welcome and potential ally.

This is a phenomena you see repeated in history A LOT and quite frankly something you expect given the circumstances.

The actual Nazi and "nationalist" movement in Ukraine pretty much culminated into the modern Azov Battalion before the battle of Mariupol where it was partially destroyed but its accomplishments drew in more people that were not necessarily ideologically aligned. This battalion of far right extremists were not necessarily insignificant but at the same time they are not representative of the country as a whole either nor held any real power.

Trying to look at Ukraine from the lens of Nazism and "nationalism" is as such highly misleading.

[Lliam]

So, in other words, you don't read.

[Soteris]

Nope, I read plenty. Which is why I know that nationalism has not been pivotal in Ukraines history.

[Lliam]

@Soteris. You didn't read what I shared so you're just blowing ideological hot air and contributing to global warming. Ideologues aren't educable.

[Soteris]

I did. I just recognized that what you are trying to promote is Russian propaganda and responded appropriately.

[Staximus]

I find history interesting and need to read more about it. I've forgotten a lot of what I read in the past, which bothers me because I used to be able to remember almost everything I read.

[19magic]

I wouldn't say I'm a buff but I have studied and read up on a few various topics. I did quite a bit on ww2 and have always found that quite interesting. I've always liked learning about the Victorians and the Georgians. I've also spent a fair bit of time learning about the ancient Romans and Egyptians.

When I did my alevels in history they did a medicine through time course and I thoroughly enjoyed it, learning how it evolved and a lot of grave robberies. How various doctors went against the Bible or the king of the time, how people got things wrong cause the study of the human body was illegal but study of animals is okay. Also how various people somehow knew things, yet didn't actually have the technology to confirm it/do it in their own time.

[Anonymous]

Forst cities in Ukraine were built by the ancient Greeks.

[gorydetails]

Do you listen to Dan Carlin’s podcasts?

[Lliam]

I never heard of him.

[gorydetails]

Countdown to Armageddon is the best story of WWI ever. Do yourself a favor.

[exitseven]

I am so old that I actually lived history.