Mr. Trump explained that he could leave NATO if the Europeans did not give in to his demands.
Personally, I don't believe it. In fact, even during the presidential campaign when he was elected, he made exactly the same kind of threat. However, the majority of European countries have not increased their defense budgets to 2%, and Mr. Trump has not abandoned NATO.
Personally, I think that Europeans should respect the 2% of GDP, in fact I'm in favor of the European strategic autonomy that Macron wants, and the abandonment of NATO by the USA could encourage European countries to finally accept this French idea.
But if I look at what Mr. Trump had already said on this subject in the past, and what he did concretely when he was in power, I don't think he would act any differently if he were elected again.
If Trump is elected, will he get the US out of NATO?
Its really difficult to predict what Trump will do, mainly because it does not make much sense. NATO is an American project, it is one of the main ways that USA can project its military and diplomatic power across the world. In other words, its USA's super power project that is part of the foundation for why USA is the worlds super power today.
Having USA voluntarily leave its own project like this, especially when it is critical for the success of the nation is unthinkable under normal circumstances. The problem is that Trump either does not understand the importance of NATO to USA or perhaps he does not care. He does not understand that USA wants NATO to rely on American troops and equipment rather than build up their own forces.
What Trump cares about is narratives, in this case to make a narrative of American allies not doing enough to support USA which either resolves itself in them changing at which point he can claim credit as a negotiator/businessman or they do not at which point he can use them as a scapegoat. You can already hear much of the right wing blame Europe for a bunch of things going wrong in USA.
I guess it comes down to how desperate Trump is to build his own support. If he feels like he needs to do something to improve his image while president I can very well see him pulling USA out of NATO just for the headlines and the opportunity to make a speech where he could try drum up support for himself like he sometimes do.
I'm not very up to date on global politics right now to give an educated answer. But generally speaking I do not see why the US would benifit from leaving NATO. Considering the US policy has never really changed from being the "police of the world" as a way to secure their own borders and interests.
Leaving NATO will put the US back into isolation in America (the continent) and increase the risk of the US's opposition to grow beyond control.
Putting all those facts into consideration I don't think the will of Trump alone would be enough to actually get this done
They could devote the resources they have to Asia, but even in this case, Europe is too important for the US to abandon Nato. Trump is bluffing like he used to. If he really wanted to leave NATO, why didn't he do it when he was in power?
Europe is the first line of defence against Russia and it's a useful place for America to launch attacks from or refuel. I can't see his generals wanting to give up that advantage
I did see some interview where Trump said - in effect - he was scaring the Europeans into spending more appropriately on defense. I would hope that is as far as it goes and would think it a fair suck of the sauce bottle.
As Defense purchases are multi-year, there really needs to be a sinking fund approach and a mechanism to keep grubby left wing politicians fingers from stealing the money.
I claim a right to comment on European Security after WW 1 & 2 and with Australia being a Nato Enhanced Opportunity Partner e. g. we currently have a Wedgetail surveillance plane operating out of Germany for the Russian war.
Why would anyone get the US out of NATO? NATO is the USA tool to controll Europe. Yes, officially, it's an international council bla bla bla but look at the decisions they made historically. the discourse is dominated by the USA and the decisions are never made against USA interest. Getting out of NATO would be an insanely stupid move.
Like why would you just let go of your political power in Europe? i mean i am german. i would hope that the USA gets out... but it's not gonna happen unless we kick them. And that's just not viable for us, cause then Europe is the playball between "eastern" and "western" military hegemons.
@julie4 If I remember correctly, Trump threatened to leave NATO just for the economic reason that European countries were just "not paying their fair share", as you stated to 2% of GDP... You are probably correct that he would not abandon NATO.
I know NATO can been criticized as an organization for not being effective in doing what it was originally formed to do.
Let's look at it concretely: the USA needs to devote as many resources as possible to Asia to deter China, which is becoming increasingly powerful. If the various countries were to respect their commitments, this would enable the USA to concentrate more on Asia.
The problem is that European countries don't realize that if the USA loses to China, the consequences will be disastrous for the USA, but for Europe it will be even worse. So, in reality, the USA wants to dissuade China, but thanks to this is also protecting Europe. If the USA is still obliged to devote so many resources to Europe, it will weaken its position against China. As long as the Europeans don't realize this, they'll be participating in the downfall of the USA, and consequently in their own downfall.
Devoting 2% of our GDP to defense doesn't mean that the US would leave NATO, just that it would allow them to concentrate on Asia more effectively too.
You are correct, and I wonder how much of Europe does realize what a threat Communist China is to the rest of the free world... indeed the rest of the planet
I don't think this is a particularly important issue. It's fine either way. But generally, my observation of Trump in office is that 1) he never really sought to increase executive power, and 2) he barely even tried to use the executive power he DID have. So I'd have similar expectations if he got back in to office. In other words, I wouldn't expect much of substance to change.
So from my perspective, the prospect of Trump getting back in to office shouldn't really fill anyone with great hope and jubilation (unless you really, REALLY like things as they are now), nor should it fill anyone with any particular dread (since he doesn't really do anything except Tweet, or X, or Truth or whatever.
Nevertheless, I suppose we can look forward to 11 straight months of a bunch of retards telling us how this is THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EEEEVVVVVEEEERRRR! and how the FUTURE OF OUR DEMOCRACY IS ON THE LINE!!!
That is the answer to missing million dollar question why putin interfered with the 2016 hacking into Hillary Clinton email server. The muller investigation did conclude Russia hackers wanted Hillary Clinton emails and wanted trump to win but never got to why.
With Biden winning the 2020 election and putin invasion of Ukraine and how much global support for Ukraine got and sanctions on Russia hurting them. putin wanted trump to dismantle nato from the inside being best of friends.
No, presidents don't have such power to do that. America and like many countries that are not dictatorships the appointed leader have no such power as there is a whole system that stops that leader just doing whatever they want. Unlike a dictatorship. And trump like many leaders claims to able to do something when they can't, because it's all about buzzwords and attention nothing more.
Fairness, now- what he said during the last election was a suggestion, not a promise.
In any case, he couldn't; he doesn't have the authority. He'd need Congressional approval, which I don't think he'd've gotten, and I KNOW he wouldn't get it now, with Russia on the warpath.
NATO is the tool to dictate US hegemony over the Western world.
Trump is trying to pose as if US can just decide to get out of it, but truth is, what then? They can easily turn fascistic and go traditional and US with its huge trade deficits, would stumble upon another crisis.
The origin of this thing is obvious, USA had an hegemony over the non-socialist world after WWII. It managed to keep it up for a tremendously long period but it doesn't work anymore.
Macron has allied with the Chinese. As for Trump, I posted a question before about kicking Turkey out of NATO and it's not that simple. The other members would need to sign off on the USA's departure. He did pull us of the Paris climate accord. Knowing him, I think he would try, but it wouldn't succeed.
He didn't even try when he was in power, he didn't even take a step in that direction, even though he was already criticizing NATO at the time. However, when Macron said that NATO was brain-dead, Trump didn't like it, even though he spent his time criticizing NATO during the presidential campaign.
Macron is trying to advance French interests on this point, and it's not without risk, but he's right. And this sentence could be applied to the majority of political leaders in international relations, so it's irrelevant.
I do agree that it's stupid for NATO to get involved in Taiwan. Taiwan isn't a NATO member, but I guess it threatens U. S. and global security. I agree with the Montenegro argument as well. The concept of NATO is fine, but I do think it's stupid to include members from other regions. The U. S. was only supposed to meddle in Latin America, but somehow that changed. And I will admit, it would be nice for the U. S. to stop spending money on other people's wars. So while I think his idea is good, it's not practical. The narrator is correct that NATO relies too much on the U. S. and was completely unprepared for a Russian attack. And I agree that China is a far bigger threat than Russia.
Yes, China is a bigger threat. And Macron didn't criticize Nato, I just said that if Trump really wanted to abandon Nato, then this would be the ideal opportunity for France to seize to build strategic autonomy, because the other European countries would have to find a solution to the catastrophe that the end of Nato would represent. Even for France, the disappearance of NATO would not be without consequences, as it would have to devote more resources to Europe and less to its projection capabilities. But it would be the ideal opportunity to build strategic autonomy, and I think France would seize it.
But even for American interests, abandoning NATO will have great consequences. In fact, the US has no interest in abandoning NATO, just as European countries have no interest in NATO's disappearance.
There are many Americans who want to pull back from being the world policeman. Europe would be a better US Allie if it were in its own. I say that because they would HAVE to invest in their own defense.
Somehow the world thinks we want this role, we don’t. There would be more chaos in the world but why should we defend the Middle East, Eastern Europe and Asian. We can defend ourselves and simply trade with others.
No, he won't, because it would make no sense whatsoever. It's just another one of Trump's blowhard rhetoric ("Build the wall!", "Lock her up!") to rile up his uneducated fanbase.
He probably did try, but as President he only has so much power.. Other powers that be probably prevented him from doing anything or heavily discouraged it.. He pulled out of the Paris accords after all..
It's a possibility.. But he did say that he wants to reevaluate NATOs purpose and the fact that it's costing the U. S a lot of money.. And that Europe isn't paying it's fair share for the protection provided for them.. A lot of people do criticize the U. S for trying to be the "World police".. So I guess it's in line with that.. Lol..
Trump can't do it with Congressional legislation, but what he really wants is for NATO members who aren't spending the 2% of GDP they agreed to back in 2015 to finally do so.
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