If you believe life begins at conception, do you also not agree with the use of hormonal birth control?

[Smashingdoozy]

[phraseology]

Any kid that took a basic biology class should know life has some sort of basic definition along the lines of

Life: An organized genetic unit capable of metabolism, reproduction, and evolution.

Thus there must be some sort of order, as in a single cell that contains organelles which carry out metabolic task within the organism to capture matter and energy and convert it to different forms based on a genetic code. The organism must be able to reproduce, meaning at minimum it needs to be able to replicate it’s genetic material and then divide into two functioning cells. To evolve it must be able to change, In a single cellular organism this might be absorption of new genetic material and integration of it into a plasmid. In multi-cellular organism growth and development of cells occurs, eventually you will progress to cell differentiation to specialize in particular tasks. Thus cells often have sensitivity and response to stimuli and are able to adapt to their environment as they signal other cells.

People that don’t believe a “clump of cells” are alive, have clearly never even taken an low level biology lesson designed for the mind of a child. So in other words they are operating purely on a religious position, rather than science. This is why Democrats need to consult a biologist to even know what a woman is. They are an uneducated lot. Being that I’m able to tie my own shoes, I’m pretty sure I can safely say life begins at conception. Thus why when you reference reputable medical dictionaries such as Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary you see something along the lines of

Life: The capability of using metabolic or biochemical processes to grow, reproduce, and adapt to the environment. The life of an organism begins at conception and ends at death.

So I don’t even know why people keep asking the question. You Democrats are hard core religious zealots. That out of the way, hormonal birth control impedes ovulation, thickens cervical mucus which obstructs fertilization, and reduces changes of implantation. In the lining of the uterus. As a result, it makes it difficult to conceive new life. If you’re not looking to have children, contraceptives are definitely the smartest play. I don't have an issue with you screwing up your own body and making it dysfunctional. You just shouldn't be doing that to other people's bodies. Once an egg is fertilized it takes on a new DNA profile begins to develop, reproduce into more cells, and adapt to it's environment, thus it is alive and is the body of a new human. The meaning of body is just the main part of a group, any number of individuals spoken of collectively. The reason you have a human body, is because you are a giant clump of cells that are spoken of collectively.

[236color]

I agree with all forms of birth control. As for "life" at conception, it would seem nature doesn't agree given how many fertilized eggs aren't born, even without deliberate intervention. I understand some people's objections to abortion. "All life is sacred" is a noble sentiment, but bears no resemblance to observed reality. Life is pretty cheap, sad to say, even to people that are "pro life". The Dobs decision by the US Supreme Court has laid bear how disastrous total bans on abortion are. A young woman in Texas just died after visiting 3 hospitals seeking treatment for a miscarriage. She is just the most recent of many of these cases that have happened in states with these strict bans. The religious right seem all pro fetus, but could give a shit about the mother or the baby once it's born. So I really have no patience for the proformative hand wringing of fundie Christians. When they support universal Healthcare, a living wage, and stop acting like pregnancy is just punishment for bad girls having sex, then maybe I'll take their concerns a little more seriously.

[Simslover92]

I do believe it does but I will say I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I've used plan b on more than one occasion.

But I won't do that in my future relationship.


re-state//background_color_rgba (0, 0, 0, 0), font_color_rgb (0, 0, 0), justifyLeft

[Daniela1982]

Doesn't that stop conception though? Therefore, it is not a problem. The same with using a spermicide. Prevents those tadpoles from causing mischief.

[Smashingdoozy]

Also prevents implantation if fertilization (i. e. conception) happens

[ChicoFromThe305]

Personally I don't agree with anything against life, we are reproductive beings, it's in our nature to reproduce, anything used to prevent that is against one of our main purposes, sexual intercourse is pleasurable but if it ever results in pregnancy trying to prevent it only shows selfishness, all these things that were designed to prevent or stop pregnancies or that's even said to justify it is all just denial that these people make the decision out of selfishness and to simply shake the responsibility, which I know people are going to bring up rape and all that just to justify it, these cases are the minority, just because someone had the unfortunate event of being raped doesn't give justification to every person in the world to prevent giving birth just cause they were too lazy to buy a condom, I think if people are going to kill a child the least they can do is accept and admit they were just being selfish and wanted to enjoy sex without any further responsibilities, prevention of birth is exactly that, no matter how its done, it doesn't shake the mal intentions of it.

[Maybe_Maybe_not]

I will not bring up rape, I just need to bring biology, ethics and dictionaries. Which says:
An embryo is not a person, nor a baby, nor a child therefore there is no murder.

This is not an opinion, this is an accepted and societally recognized point of view based on a lot of prior thinking about the topic, from several fields of research. This is not a random conclusion, nor moral dysfunction. I don't mean you are forced to validate this concept against your belief, I just mean this concept exists, and is recognized for valid reasons.

[Kaneki05]

The thing I like about this opinion is the implication that selfish is synammous with malicious.
Just tells me you have no clue what the word selfish means.
It's not synammous with been bad.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Kaneki05 do you believe healthcare and childcare should be free or supplemented then?

[ChicoFromThe305]

Selfishness isn't good, that's the best word I can put it in, that's your only argument to what I said? it's weak, it only shows you have no valid argument for what I said, you are just expressing your emotions cause you got triggered to what I said so you had to find any form of comeback and your desperate grasp was towards saying mal intentions, how about you stay within the topic of the argument and don't start beating around it.

[Kaneki05]

You mention selfishness multiple times and it's the entire basis of your argument. So yes obviously my point back to you was questioning you on why you even believe selfishness is a bad thing in the first place?
Selfish is just what all creatures are by nature. Reproducing and lack there of are both selfish acts. Yet you claim doing is this way is malicious without any other reasoning than it's selfish.
Figure it out your point makes no sense.

But hey you thought I was going off topic somehow, when I am questioning you on exactly what you said and expressed throughout your entire view. So I guess one can't reason with someone who don't even get their own point.

[Kaneki05]

@Smashingdoozy Of course. Contraception, prevention of birth etc should always be free.
And also there should be help if you want to raise a child.
I am for sure left so yeah.

[ChicoFromThe305]

That doesn't change that abortion is selfish, you are still beating around it, maybe malicious was the incorrect term, I'll admit that but it's still selfish, now this is where you tell me how I'm wrong, cause it still seems like you are avoiding the main part of the argument

[Kaneki05]

I literally just said it was selfish... Oh boy you really need to read.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Okay good as long as you admit it, good boy

[Kaneki05]

My point went so woosh over your head, you didn't even feel the wind.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Your point doesn't matter to me, I'm firm on my own opinions, actually I could argue your point because we aren't born selfish as children, children are pure hearted but it's not like you'll understand my point because I'm sure you are firm on your own opinions, to me you don't seem like the type to accept when they are wrong, I can read that off you just by how you approached my opinion, at this point I'm better off with a brick wall, so it didn't fly over my head, I just matrixed it and dodged it like STDs, my goal was to get you to accept it, how you personally combine selfishness with humanity isn't my problem, as long as you are aware child prevention is selfish, if I ever wear a condom I won't try to justify it that I'm doing it for my own selfish reasons, I wasn't born selfish but these selfish tendencies were formed as I grew.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Dude I'm a Christian, people disagreeing with me has become a part of my life, I'm used to it, I pick my battles, there's nothing important to argue here, unlike some people, I know when to walk when it's just a waste of time, I don't have that sudden egotistic urge to argue til no more words are said, I simply just throw my cards on the table and if it cycles back to a topic I already covered, I'm gone.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Or sooner if Im in a good mood, like now lol

[Kaneki05]

Yeah if you think children are pure of heart when born. And not taking into account actual nature and biological facts, along with psychological studies that are pretty expansive on our nature. Then there is nothing more to say that's for sure. But ya know I like to questions people logic on here.
I tried.

Oh I accept when I am wrong it's just rare cause I stick to facts, and facts don't really change unless if new information proves them to be wrong. So was just seeing if you had any.
But you don't. If it's just a faith based argument after all which then all I can say to that is ok. Because you are right it won't get anywhere.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Children can't even think for themselves, to think they are capable malicious intentions or being selfish for the intention of being selfish then psychology failed you, sounds to me like you lack the ability to think for yourself or outside the box, I ran into situations where teachings were wrong, a toddler can grab a gun and pull the trigger, not cause you took their candy and they want revenge but because they don't know better, there is a reason why parents are blamed for their children and because it's the parents responsibility as people that can perfectly reason to take responsibility for the little beings that aren't capable, the reason science links it to our nature is because eventually people grow these tendencies but humans are born as blank slates, if you are aware of what a blank slate is, you'll know that if you give a new born baby a piece of candy, it won't know what to do with it, if you give a 6 year old a piece of candy, he will make the choice (selfish or not) to eat it or give it to someone if they ask for it, if you teach that child to never eat or try a piece of candy, that baby will grow to not touch one until it chooses to do it on its own, which is something thats self taught, they werent born with it, your science failed you cause this is just common sense.

[ChicoFromThe305]

Unless there's a different definition to what they mean by our nature, for as long as I can remember something being in our nature it's something you are born with and since we are speaking about this seeing is believing shit, I've never seen a new born do anything selfish, it's brain is just a mush, like a brand new memory card that hasn't received the selfish software yet.

[Smashingdoozy]

@Kaneki05 sorry I tagged the wrong person I meant to ask @ChicoFromThe305

[ChicoFromThe305]

Oh if that question is for me then yea, there's many things I wish was free and I believe everything healthy related is a scam, insurances are a scam, did you know in the US it's about 3k dollars for being taken to the hospital in ambulance, thats the most expensive taxi I've ever seen, thats not counting the actual hospital bill, whoever created the health care system is a diobolical genius, im not saying doctors dont care but the people in charge of the health care system in whole just care more about their money, chemotherapy is another scam, a very successful one, I don't know if you are aware of the doctor that found the cure for cancer that died in an accident, the one that found the cure for aids was poisoned, they can cure it, chemo is just a gold mine, i think people going into dept to save their lives is inhumane, we know what black holes are made of or how big the observable universe is but can't cure cancer or aids, or is it just good for our economy and curing it isn't? There's many things that should be free but healthcare is one of the industries that brings in the most income and they give you pills to help cure one thing and harm you in another area so then you come back and yay more money, Asians live off herbs and they look better and live much longer, I don't think I even have to bring up the poison in our food right?

[Smashingdoozy]

Well at least we agree on that part. I hope you're voting to achieve this.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I didn't see it on the voting slip, I did vote for recreational marijuana in my state tho, I believe marijuana has far more benefits than they make it seem, it has over 100 cannabinoids just in that plant, each one with a different purpose, the control on this plant should have never been a thing, you can't even overdose on it without a huge amount of effort, so that being controlled wasn't for our health, most likely for the health of their wallets.

[Kaneki05]

@ChicoFromThe305 Ah so you are willing to argue on scientific ground then.
No, humans are not at all born as blank slates, no creature is.
We are born predispositions from our evolution already, if this wasn't the case a baby wouldn't know to do half the things it already knows what to do when born, or even what to do when it's birthed.
Some struggle with what to do but they aren't born blank, not at all. In fact many creatures like snakes just let there babies figure it out, they leave the eggs and don't teach them jack.

All creatures are this way we naturally know what we need to survive when born. Humans babies aren't as a independent as baby snakes that's for sure but they are born with primal senses and urges and thoughts. Very much not a blank state.

And if you think a baby don't know what sugar is... then you really don't understand much about us. Humans know exactly what sugar is even if we are yet to learn what it is called. Our bodies have been having sugar in our diet for generations our system knows what it is.
And if you give a baby anything the first likely thing they will try to do is eat it everyone knows that, that's not a taught behavior you just can make up on a spot it's something the baby already knows how to do.

We humans are born opportunistic eaters, meaning we learned how to be predators and prey from the very start of us. And we learnt to become predators pray on weaker animals because we aren't pure of heart we are just animals who are doing whatever it takes to survive. These are very basic facts.

[Kaneki05]

Also the concept of morals themselves grew from us learning to work together as it benefited us. Nothing more. Not because we were been nice or kind but because it caused a symbiotic relationship that helped us survive as packs.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I'm using both, unlike some people I have the brain to also think for myself not expect everyone to do the research for me, again you are only telling me things others tell you, I've got my own opinions, science is not my God, I dont believe science is always right because at the end of the day it's just more clueless humans figuring out things for themselves, only you limit your knowledge based on what others said, my cards are all on the table, I believe what I believe and your science isn't going to change it, science being wrong one time is enough for me to consider it unreliable enough to not depend my whole mindset on it, im soeaking about humans specifically, there you go again bringing in your monkeys lmao, no matter what you say none of the scientists today know about the past, someone couldve carved human skulls out of bones back then and we find their art and start assuming human monkeys, the truth is that science on our past is all just one big theory, you aren't going to change my mind on my thought process, dont forget scientists have the power to to misinformed the weak minded, personally I'm my own scientist, what I see and what my brain tells me creates theories i speculate, none of your monkey science makes sense to me, kinda how nothing I say makes sense to you, I said what i think, your pink mush in your head can take it how you like, mine will remain the same.

I'm close minded to what you have to say because I know you'll just bring in monkeys like you always do 😂

[Kaneki05]

Then why you carry on the argument. I already said if you want a faith argument then I would just say Ok because we aren't going to get anywhere.
But if your speaking science and psychology, you are wrong because your saying things that aren't correct with all the evidence we have.
One can't just make up their own science and psychology without extensive research, degree's and evidence to back it up it's not faith.

But if you want the faith stuff to be your argument then let it be so but don't talk to me about psychology and science lol.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I'm replying cause it's rude not too besides you are on my comment, science is only right until science says they are wrong, thats not very reliable, im not saying its all bullshit but im not very hopeful on the accuracy of them trying to tell us how the past was, I can say it's got its moments were its not facts, because it corrects itself, its not very factual if it ends up being wrong at some point, I can say what I want about psychology and science and im saying that its wrong and faulty on many things as its been known to happen before, your facts are as factual as the scientists that don't know everything say it is, that doesn't necessarily make it a fact because if it's wrong, you were fooled to believe in misinformation, I think psychology is very faulty because even tho they might know basics of the human brain, they can't compare it all to the same thing, all you need is a group of people to be wired differently and that confuses the whole thing, the basics is the only facts about it, where each function of the brain is located and all the wiring from there is never truly the same, take our discussion for example, just to be clear i respect your part of the discussion, i dont fully agree with everything but either ways it shows differences in how our brains are, i dont think phycology can truly compare all brains for studying a few hundred, even thousand because both of our brain results will be different, so knowing that I don't believe they can truly break down what's in human nature psychologically, blank slates is a thing, brains and even their skeletons aren't developed.

[ChicoFromThe305]

, people find evidence and make a theory out of it and how much they research that theory is up to the specific scientist, i can go to school, cheat, get a certificate in psychology and go to a lab and half ass any science project and feed you bolony and youd believe it not knowing i was having a shit day and called it a day by only half investigating my project, created a theory and now its a fact, how many people do this is unknown, i can shit on the side walk then pick it up and put it on someones car, then say i shit on their car, the past of that situation is that it was on the sidewalk first and until you find the stain on the side walk, if it's there, just cause people say I shit on their car, you'd have no idea the past of that situation, i believe something similar happens with science, not just in the past but in general 😂

[ChronicTDS]

I just want to let everyone know that we can all be friends, as long as there's no orange man.

[Kaneki05]

Yeah but I was willingly to end this trying to reason logic if you are just sticking to a faith belief, and it sounded like you were too.

I see. The major difference then is you underestimate how accurate science has actually become. It's extremally hard to create a theory on lie in our modern society, we have thousands of people in those fields all studying the same thing and peer checking others work.
If you try to half ass it, it won't take long at all for others to figure out you aren't as smart as them and just cheating a way through basic stuff and not actually getting the science.

If your just pretending you know what black holes are and talk to Hawkings, he's going to laugh about 3mins in noticing you aren't understanding his point at all.
Evidence of what people come up for theories are fact checked, and always read over and we aren't talking just some random dude called bob is looking it over, we are talking about highest in their field or a large group in the field with good understanding.

You can tell someone you shit on their car but that person can look down realize you shit on the side walk first ya know? Check your hand see the shit? Or let's say you try to be clever and clean it. Forensics can tell if you did shit on the car it wouldn't be splattered in such a way like it is when you did it with your hands.
That would right away prove what you did. And you'd be caught a liar.

[Kaneki05]

Also our brains not been the same would be helping my point not yours. If we are all different due how our brains evolved, then that would prove they aren't blank states. It would be the idea that your brain was already unique to have a predisposition of different thoughts.
And I never said all brains are the same, just to be clear.
Just because we have the same instinctual thoughts from evolution don't mean one's brain has to be the exact same to someone else's, it only has to be similar enough which we know we are from behavior analysis's that are done all the time in psychological studies.

[ChicoFromThe305]

They are blank slates they are just wired when it comes to personality which effects choice and how they are in general, psychology is in its own ways trying to generalized brains with certain things, psychologically I don't believe there's a nature as people are wired differently, and half assing all relies on the sources, a source can be corrupt which is probably more than one person half assing, or the whole company half assing for the pay, I guess it all depends on how it all functions as well but at the end of the day it's all just humans on the same boat trying to put things together, I guess how reliable that is, is subjective, i dont believe its as reliable as its claimed to be, for all we know they are paid to misinform.

[Kaneki05]

If they are been paid to misinform, and it's wrong. Then all I can say is they are doing a good damn job, because I've done a lot of research into such things and I don't find many logical error and stuff that don't add up.
It always adds up and shows exactly why people act the way they do. So unless I come across an actual error in which things don't line up.
And how far does on really go when it starts becoming 'Oh they are lying to us it's made up' because that's how you get to 'The Earth is flat' or 'Bigfoot still out there' or 'Aliens are here'
At that point it becomes why trust anything shrugs.

[ChicoFromThe305]

I guess for the sake of the people hopefully they aren't paid to misinform.

[_piotr]

@ChicoFromThe305
What do you think about Natural Family Planning?

[MisterWack]

Life doesn’t begin at conception.

And if a female individual is raped, a victim of incest, sexually assaulted, victim of child sex abuse, her birth control methods & his birth control methods failed, suffered a miscarriage, etc. she deserves the reproductive healthcare she needs to help her life & sustainability because she comes first. It is her choice whether to consult a family member, church goer, or whatever though it is still her choice when it comes to choosing the healthcare she wants from a healthcare professional who will improve her quality of life.

Pro Life is Anti-Woman, that is why I no longer am a Pro Lifer. I rarely bring it up, though I became educated on the topic when I had to do my own research for Debate Class 2019. I originally did no research or listened to talking points on both sides, I stayed in my Pro Life scenario bubble same how I supported Trump. It is a disgrace and I’ve shifted beliefs to fit the more logical & more reasonable stance.

[Nik1hil]

Yes, Hormonal Birth Control is Toxic.

And it's a also the Cause for rise in Homosexuality.. Homosexuality did exist before.. but Birth Control confused a person's brain in their own sexuality..

An experiment done on Frogs Raised in Water with High Levels of Birth Control Made many frogs Gay.. same happened on experiment with Rabbits and Rats..

However, In Certain Cases Birth control can act as a Medicine for the women, where there is a Certain Faults in Her reproductive system that her periodic Cycle can affect her health and even cause death.. only There birth control is acceptable..

[Smashingdoozy]

You're joking right...

[Nik1hil]

Nope , none of that is Joke!.

Hormonal Birth Control is one of the worst chemicals out there for human society on average..

Barrier methods are best..

[Nik1hil]

Also Yes, Life Begins at Conception!..

Because abortion is basically death of Foetus. And Death can only happen to living things. Hence, life begins at Conception, not at birth.

However, I am not against abortion, and don't consider it killing... If there is genetic Defect or certain Risk, abortion is Quite Valid!..

[Smashingdoozy]

If life begins at conception then birth control such as the pill, implant and iuds are abortifacients as they prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg.

I also meant are you joking about the gay frogs. If not I'd love to see this experiment.

[ChronicTDS]

@Smashingdoozy while it's hilarious to talk about gay frogs, actual human studies proved that people or human embryos who wre exposed to higher progesterone are very likely to become bisexual growing up.

[mobiusforniner]

And the earth is flat. Let’s not forget that important part

[monorprise]

@Smashingdoozy
You are with hormonal birth control dumping an enormous amount of artificial human reproductive hormone into the environment with your pee. Surely you didn't think there would be no environmental consequences to that?

It has effected other sufficiently similar animals like frogs and likely is effecting other people downstream.

[Nik1hil]

Yes, in a Way pill, implant and iuds are abortifacients.

Life Begins at Conception, However complexity of Life is unicellular ( A Zygote) at first. So, it's not significant. Over time it does get Significant.
Significance is just imaginary Human way of Measuring , and quantization of situation. So it can help us determine our Morality. It doesn't actually exist in Nature.

If you don't want a baby but you abort is after +6 months pregnancy. When it becomes very significant. Nature doesn't care about it, However in Human Perception we as human become Concerned with morality of it!.

Our brain has a Habit of shrinking down the facts to quantify them and set standard to judge quality in everything. It's is part of Our survival Instinct. Taking decisions by this method help our ancestors survive. Ancestors who grouped up as high Morality individuals had a Higher Probability of survival and wouldn't turn on each other.

As far it's about Gay Frog experiment Google it.. or Go to research-Gate. com. Issue with these research report is that Pharmaceutical that sell Hormonal Birth control tamper with them. So it will hard to find. But if you use a Proper VPN and look up multiple research Reports. You will Observe Inconsistency in results.. The Inconsistency is because Tampering with Final reports are being done..

As @chronictds said..

Worst part about Hormonal Birth control is, It's molecules do not break down naturally, so it can persist in water bodies after Sewage disposal and can return Back into Homes in Tap water, when consumed by Males. Reduce their Testosterone levels and also affect pregnancy in females.

[Nik1hil]

@monorprise Bro, Please don't be rude to her. She isn't Dumping HUGE tanks of Pills into Lakes. 🥺

Behave!.. We are discussing thing here!

[Smashingdoozy]

@monorprise source?
@Nik1hil if you're going to make a claim you need to provide the evidence to back it up.

[Nik1hil]

Ok if you are patient enough to read..
Here are some references..

The reason I was not giving refrences was, you might think I was giving out selective fake articles etc.

www.sciencedaily.com/.../160404090836.htm

www.newsweek.com/female-frogs-estrogen-hermaphrodites-suburban-waste-369553

I was more talking about this articles, where Male frogs were Making making calls to Attaract other male frogs instead of Making the Making call to Attaract other female frogs.. this below..
www.scientificamerican.com/.../

[Smashingdoozy]

Very interesting. Just goes to show we need to figure out better methods of contraception.

[Nik1hil]

Indeed.. Abstinence and Masturbation is best.

Apart from that Using Barrier Methods is good like Condoms and Diaphragm.

And Dear, in certain cases. Where you know Pregnancy can lead to death of the mother and child.. Ins Such cases using such Hormonal Birth control is justified..

The issue is healthy Women using Hormonal Birth control, just for Pleasure and fun.. on a large scale.. it wouldn't be an issue if few individuals who used it during Menopause or due to specific medical conditions..

[monorprise]

@Nik1hil
Of course not @Smashingdoozy personaly but all the women constantly on the pill are together doing that.

Here is a reference:
www.scientificamerican.com/.../

[Smashingdoozy]

Unfortunately diaphragms are not very reliable without spermicide (even then only 94%) and there is many used for hormonal birth control.

[Nik1hil]

@monorprise
*Nod of respect*
*For being respectful to Smashingdoozy*

Yes that's the problem, medically only 5-6% of female population needs Hormonal Birth control as Medical Need.

But the Rate is much higher today around +50% females are on hormonal Birth control.

[Nik1hil]

Of course Diaphragm and Condoms have a risk, that is why I said "Abstinence" + "Masturbation" is best!.. ( I practice this).

[ohsheeT]

The sperm is alive

If the sperm is dead there's no baby

Is a caterpillar the start of a butterfly..
If a caterpillar transform into a chrysalis which turns in to a butterfly

There might not be any comparison but one thing no matter what they're both alive to metamorphosis into what they're supposed to
It's a living breathing thing before it turns into what it's supposed to turn into

Sperm doesn't look like a child

Caterpillar doesn't look like a butterfly

Cause and effectre-state//background_color_rgba (0, 0, 0, 0), font_color_rgb (77, 77, 77), justifyLeft

[Christian_Cartier]

I've seen birth control really screw women up. I have a hard time believing it is a healthy option. But yeah, there is no evidence that life begins at any other point than conception.

Some will try to argue that human life requires human consciousness, which can only occur with a formed and functional brain. they will say that everything prior to that is only the "potential" for life.

I think they are incorrect because if you think of the cases where someone's brain becomes dysfunctional or partially functional: do we consider them to be less human? If you got knocked unconscious and put into a coma, would you want people to consider you no longer human?

There really is no clear answer and it's better to heir on the side of caution regarding the lives of children, in my opinion.

[Smashingdoozy]

I mean we put brain dead people on life support and tell their families they're dead... Because they are.

Also nobody is arguing whether their human. It's personhood. Very different.

[Lucy68]

I'm taking hormonal birth control cause both my physician and OBGYN want my periods to be regulated (I have PCOS) and this is one of the ways that will you know help me have a baby/get pregnant. But I'm only taking it cause I want to have a baby someday and become a mother

[tiajoka]

It increases risks of infertility, the doctor should've told hou that.

[Smashingdoozy]

@tiajoka there is no link to infertility and birth control.

[tiajoka]

Yes, there is. I have pcos and took it to regulate menstruation as well... but it does increase risks of infertility

[Smashingdoozy]

@tiajoka no it does not.

[tiajoka]

And the earth is flat

[Smashingdoozy]

@tiajoka it also is not. I don't know where you are getting your information from 😊

[tiajoka]

I'm making fun of your lack of logic

[Smashingdoozy]

@tiajoka show me backed evidence it causes infertility. I'll wait.

[Danny_dan92]

Despite being an independent/republican voter.




I’m pro choice, because of simple fact that abortion applies to women only. And I am not a woman, so it’s wrong of me to tell women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.




That being said, I got in an argument with a guy that was pro life and he brought up the “life begins at conception”




So I used his logic against him and asked him if he ever jacked off. To which he said yes, so I then said “right so by your logic you committed an abortion when you nutted in your hand and not inside a woman”




To me, life begins when that baby has an actual heartbeat.

[Zack-Bann]

Its such a messed up concept to think that abortion only applies to women

Men can’t get pregnant that’s a fact of life but they can procreate
And a man having no say in the death of his unborn child simply because he cannot biologically carry that child to term is wrong on every level

Sure there are many considerations to be had.

But to close the debate and say “women get to make the only choice that counts” is not the answer

[BetaBucks]

Just a heads up for future arguments, conception means when the sperm hits the egg.

[bobby_bush_eater]

I don't have a strong opinion on this but if it was my girlfriend or partner, I have no problem waiting for sex because of this view.

I would respect the view of a girl who felt this way and would still date someone who outright said this, I want a wife and children.

I am Catholic but don't align with any organization over the individual issues like conception, birth control or abortion.

My only thing is I would like to be with my girlfriend not on birth control for a while before marriage, I think that's important.

[jshm2]

They tend to fall into many camps, not all of them scientific.

The idea isn't really around life, per say. But around the laws and regulation of immigration.

By allowing abortion, you increase reliance on migration to make up the shortfall.

[Smashingdoozy]

hahahahaha WHAT

[RavVid]

Oral contraceptive prevent an egg being released so conception is not possible. The two are unrelated.

You'd have to argue it is wrong to avoid conception which I think was the Catholic view but then they had the rhythm method which seems to be for same purpose of avoiding conception.

[Smashingdoozy]

Hormonal birth control and copper IUD works in 3 ways. 1. Prevents ovulation 2. Prevents fertilization 3. Prevents implantation.

[Smashingdoozy]

(copper IUD doesn't prevent ovulation)

[RavVid]

Well would think only 3 prevents implantation was akin to abortion.

[Smashingdoozy]

Those are what birth controls are designed to do.

[RavVid]

Is a condom equivalent to abortion? I really can't see a physical barrier as being the same. The classic quandary s that at birth termination would be murder. There is never a clear divide is the problem. One week, one day, one hour before birth?

Is it wrong for a virgin girl to be releasing ova without the chance of conception? We can split too many hairs. I am definitely queasy on late term abortions because it seems to be done by inducing labor. If very late it is ok to terminate a viable life.

[Smashingdoozy]

This isn't about barrier methods

[molonski2]

I kinda have a problem with the pill now , although I must admit when young I did not , I'm not sure its a healthy as we all came to accept , and it certainly causes mood swings in some , appreciate its certainly necessary , but I'm no longer a fan , at all.

[monorprise]

@molonski2

It seemed perfectly harmless to me as recently as a decade ago. Almost nobody mentioned the effect it had on the girls who took it.
Fewer still were talking about the environmental effects of dumping enormous amounts of Artificial human reproductive chemicals into the environment.
All that stuff is coming out with the women's pee and going into the water supply downstream.

Its ironic too the medical community is well aware of the consequences of many of their other drugs which is one of the main reasons they try to limit their use.
I guess the "environmentalist" watching were too ideologically attached to the direct effect of the pill to bother telling us about the environmental consequences of it.

[molonski2]

@monorprise
Look even forgetting any environmental outcomes ( and you could say that of any medication ) , just take as little of everything that you can , I've taken no script medication in many years.

So good on you.

[monorprise]

It is certainly a good idea @molonski2 to take as little drugs as you can not merely for the effects of such drugs on the enviroemnt but upon you.

A well studied and frankly alarming example is antibiotics which are quickly becoming ineffective precisely because soo many people have been taking them.

[molonski2]

@monorprise
Oh yes , very aware of it. Thats why I have avoided and continue to...

[ChronicTDS]

Certainly anabolic androgenic steroids are healthier because they don't cause metabolic syndrome, or cancers, but these same pill takers would say taking testosterone causes permanent damage. It sort of does, but nowhere near as much damage as birth control does. And roids absolutely move you the opposite way on political spectrum.

[molonski2]

@ChronicTDS
There is absolutely no safe level of TRT , and this should not be a " go to " at any age , none of them are any good.

[ChronicTDS]

@molonski2 what is in your opinion the biggest issue with TRT?

The only significant issue that I see at reasonable doses is reduction in LH, which means suppressed size of your balls and natural test production. For that you could simply take gonadorelin which forces LH production back up, or a less expensive way is HCG which mimics LH.

Moreover TRT is always done using bioidentical testosterone which is easily metabolized and affects your receptors in a similar way as it naturally did.

Whereas those "experts" at female birth control decided to shove synthetics into women that act nowhere near the same way progesterone does, with truly irreversible side effects especially if they eventually do decide to breed. They are using literally analogues of notorious "tren".

In addition to those synthetic estrogens and progestins being known to make their way into men's and children's bodies. Bioidentical progesterone if taken orally largely converts to other non feminizing natural metabolites that are a usually beneficial even for young men, think of cholestrol rich egg yolks...

.. and for this reason it requires higher doses of progesterone to be eaten by women than if they were to inject it, for fertility suppression purposes. Another effective way is to take a pinch of progesterone powder and shove it deep into the pussy.

The issue here is not inconvenience, or dosage cost for slightly higher dosing orally. The issue is profits, they don't want men women and children to be healthier by using a healthier hormonal birth control.

Also there is no estrogen-only birth control, but there is progestin-only birth control, because they found out about side effects fast, but even without side effects the estrogen would only starve eggs that already were fertilized, not prevent fertilization as a whole like progestins do.

[PBandJ_Nerd]

If a person doesn't want to have babies, then they'll use birth control to help prevent from getting pregnant. Only way to get away from that is to get surgery to permanently remove any chances of getting pregnant (1% to zero depending on what you get done).

[BetaBucks]

I believe that life begins at conception and I don't care. People should be killing as many babies as possible, prior to the point of viability. We need less people in this world. And less scumbags having babies, in general. Whether it's using BC or a vacuum, it doesn't matter to me. re-state//background_color_rgba (0, 0, 0, 0), font_color_rgb (77, 77, 77), justifyLeft

[Zack-Bann]

I don’t like hypocrisy above all else to be honest


All forms of chemical or procedural interference with the nature process of procreation is akin to murder


That being said I don’t mind the existence of abortion nor argue it’s necessary:
I simply want it to be acknowledged as an informed decision to commit murder

[Anonymous]

I don't know what effects the other birth control contraceptives have. Condoms are effective and don't have side effects unless you're allergic to latex. I know that birth control pills have side effects and affect the women's health. I don't know exactly how they work in your body but I know they have given women really bad side effects. So I'm against birth control pills for that reason. I would never take a birth control pill. Plus I'm against pills. Medication destroys your kidneys. I don't need to take any medication. Unless I get sick which is rare. I'm a healthy person. Anyway, so I don't want to take birth control for like 5 minutes of pleasure 😂🤣 I'm saving myself for marriage.

[DrPepper12]

Better yet, ask the allegedly "pro-life" crowd if they support capital punishment?

Ask if they support expanded social services for children?

Ask them if they support Medicare for All?

They don't even see the ridiculous hypocrisy!

[Notherndude84]

The “Pro-life” people want babies to be born and they can shoot them later. If you want to be “Pro-Life start with funding education, child care, health care for everyone, access to birth control and a comprehensive sex education program nation wide. In my view that would be an effective pro-life policy

[Still-alive]

here ill answer for them because i've debated them soo many times now:

Better yet, ask the allegedly "pro-life" crowd if they support capital punishment? Yes they support captial punishment and neither see no contradiction nor do they care even if it is.

"Ask if they support expanded social services for children?" of course not, as george carlin said 'once you're born you're on your own (while flipping us off)'

"Ask them if they support Medicare for All?" nope!

The problem is you can show their hypocrisy until you are blue in the face. they just don't give a fuck lol.

[mobiusforniner]

I’ve had that argument before. Some Christians go as far to say certain kids were born to die; that death is a gift from god to serve a bigger purpose.

Fuck that shit.

[Notherndude84]

There’s no hate quite like Gods love

[mobiusforniner]

@Notherndude84 the irony is that Jesus came to tell everyone this kind of thinking was screwed up. And we killed him. and now we kill people in his name.

[Notherndude84]

Yes, Jesus was a first century version of a hippy. He was into changing minds using non-violent language. Somehow American Christian Nationalists identify as his followers. It’s truly a mind blowing 🤯 I would think they’d be more into a guy who promoted violence and division.

[Anonymous]

That life begins at conception is a scientific fact reinforced by the nature of all other life on this planet, nearly of which are only ever conceived.

Hormonal birth control isn't killing anyone except the person who uses it and occasionally other people in the cases it makes them crazy.

[Smashingdoozy]

Hormonal birth control prevents implantation m8

[Opinion Owner]

@smashingdoozy Hormonal birth control has questionable at best environmental consequences at such a scale. If your going to use it recreationally the very least you can do is collect and filter most of the chemicals out of our urine as to avoid effecting other animals and people.

If you will not or cannot do that the substance needs to be more tightly controlled as to limit its application to environmentally less pervasive numbers.

[Smashingdoozy]

More research needs to be done into jon hormonal birth control. If the effects are that great on the environment then a filtering system should be implemented into waste water treatment plants.

[RainbowMarinade]

@monorprise
“ If your going to use it recreationally the very least you can do is collect and filter most of the chemicals out of our urine as to avoid effecting other animals and people.”
For all medications? Or the BC pill?

[Opinion Owner]

@smashingdoozy If there is such a solution then such birth control would still need to be a controlled substance strictly limited to the 4% or less of women who needed it for medical reasons in every location that didn't have such filtering technology.

[Opinion Owner]

@RainbowMarinade For all drug and medications of such a nature that don't get broken down easily and are used on a significant scale.

A lot of drugs however do get broken down adequately and need not be cleaned up, or in lue of that restricted to a small % of the population using the. Artificial hormonal birth control just may not be one of them.

[Notherndude84]

Republicans politicians want exclusive control over a woman’s body. Many politicians won’t stop until we’re the Republic of Gilead. Men like Ken Paxton will have access to women in the form of a handmaiden.

[Still-alive]

yup. we'll make sure that never happens. we still got the blue wall so far.

[Notherndude84]

Demand the rights of women are protected as a man, if you don’t they’ll come for your rights next. Women are always the first casualties of an authoritarian regime.

[Still-alive]

Well one if the first. The true first targets are the free press. But yeah women are definitely on the list too

[Notherndude84]

I agree. I guess as my thoughts were exclusively about people.

[Anonymous]

Life begins when a egg is fertilized by sperm. What hormonal birth control does is prevent the egg from getting fertilized, so no I'm not against the use of hormonal birth control as it's preventing an egg from being fertilized and not killing living cells that will grow into a living, breathing being.

[Smashingdoozy]

Hormonal birth control also prevents implantation.

[Opinion Owner]

That's how it prevents the egg from being fertilized, the egg doesn't decend to be implanted. Female eggs aren't really much different than chicken eggs in that they don't contain life until fertilized. Problem with some pro lifers they don't advocate for birth control which is effective in reducing the number of abortions, and they absent after the birth takes place. It's not uncommon for abortions to take place due to financial difficulties, which is why pro lifers need to be advocating for more financial support for expecting mothers, so they have the financial means to take care of their unborn child when it's finally born.

[Smashingdoozy]

I agree that birth control should be more accessible and births should be free if not subsidized and accessible for everyone.

As for my comment on birth control. Hormonal birth control (and copper IUD ) often prevent fertilization from happening but in the odd case it also will prevent a fertilized egg from implanting.

[ChronicTDS]

As I understand estrogen based birth control starves the eggs that get fertilized, while progesterone (which is the natural mechanism of preventing a second impregnation after one already happened) actually prevents eggs from getting fertilized in the first place.

[Smashingdoozy]

@ChronicTDS there's combined hormonal which is oestrogen and progestin , then progestin only. Both work in 3 ways 1. prevent ovulation 2. Prevent fertilization 3. Prevent implantation

[Flower7]

I do believe that life begins at conception. Birth control prevents conception from happening.

[Smashingdoozy]

And sometimes prevents implantation.

[MicahRaine]

Yep. Obviously, that means chances of pregnancy are higher. Oh, and I do believe in a father providing for and caring for his child.

One of the many reasons I've always turned down hook up opportunities.

[Still-alive]

Unfortunately im sure you'll realize these prolife (lets be real they don't give a shit about life) people don't operate on logic anymore. but good luck anyways.

Keep on Fighting! *fist bumps*

[Smashingdoozy]

Yes of course. But they often preach access to birth control as a means to help with abortion rates which is infact true and a good thing. However, in the same breath will say life begins at conception which completely contradicts their stance on birth control as most birth controls (besides from barrier methods) when they fail to stop fertilization they prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg.

[Still-alive]

They do but you'll see that contradictions also don't matter to these people either lol. i guess you can show it for other people to see but to the individuals themselves.. you'll never convince them.

I sure hope when Harris wins she does pass something that codifies roe v wade. Women are literally dying because of these idiots you're arguing with right now.

[Smashingdoozy]

Yes me too. I also hope for better access to birth control and more research into new better methods that don't involve fucking up a womans hormones. Or at least having an option for all birth control pills to not have the placebo pills or to have them clearly labeled (the last ones I was on were just randomly in there so I couldn't skip them 😤)

[Still-alive]

We got this don't worry! im soo ready to watch these people lose their shit next week lol.

We aren't going back!

[mobiusforniner]

@Smashingdoozy they don’t care about logic. When they’re confronted with a conflict, they default to “God has it all worked out”.

[supercutebutt]

I agree will banning whatever the fuck this is

[mandyfire98]

All I know is that your question brought out some wild ass people with wild ass opinions. By the way I'm gonna go play with my gay ass frogs now.

[Still-alive]

[WonderingManII]

That's a tricky question. I think it is ok to prevent pregnancy. But once you are pregnant then you need to let it go full term. Prevention isn't murder, but killing it after the fact is. That's my view.

[Anonymous]

Yep. It can starve a fetus to death by not allowing it to implant. But this can also happen naturally, especially with conditions such as endometriosis... so there's no way to tell what is responsible.

[strateguy632]

Hormones are used before conception called "the pill"

[Smashingdoozy]

No shit. This is the topic m8

[Garud]

No, I think life begins when the brain develops, maybe after 3 months of fertilization. Before that, It is a biological process

[Anonymous]

the primary purpose of sex has always been reproduction

hormonal birth control has side effects that are very damaging in the long run

and life does begin at conception

[Smashingdoozy]

There are no long term side effects of birth control.

[BetaBucks]

There are well-documented long term side effects of BC. Studies and packaging materials will clarify the specifics, but I don't think it's ethical of you to lie about things to do with people's health.

[Opinion Owner]

there's plenty of long term side effects of birth control. all drugs have side effects. it's ignorant to think otherwise

[Smashingdoozy]

Side effects yes. Long term ones. No.

[Opinion Owner]

there is when you take them repeatedly

[Smashingdoozy]

Still no

[Opinion Owner]

saying no repeatedly doesn't mean you're right. a chronic smoker who's been smoking for 20 years non-stop isn't suddenly going to be healthy again immediately. steroid users often suffer hair loss and never grow it back. hormonal BC is designed to reduce fertility as much as possible for as long as possible.

[Smashingdoozy]

Show me evidence.

[BetaBucks]

Smash, just Google "long term side effects of birth control" and you'll get countless studies and legally required documentation from the pharma companies.

[BetaBucks]

Here's the top result in case you don't feel like searching: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2092241/

[Surely]

I agree with birth control over abortion. Regardless of the method used.
Not sure. But doesn’t some BC stop ovulation and others prevent implantation?

[Smashingdoozy]

They do both plus prevent fertilization. Copper IUD just prevents fertilization and implantation

[Miristheiss]

Not a fan of hormonal BC and what it does to women's bodies.

[Smashingdoozy]

Sucks that non hormonal methods haven't been researched since the 80s. Stuck with things that either aren't reliable enough, cause more pain, or cause infections

[MoonFace2]

I agree with the use of birth control. It’s better not to have children, than to give birth to a child you’re unfit to parent.

[Gwendoline]

hormonal birth control stops you conceiving.

[DizzyDesii]

I dont agree with abortion nor believe in birth control nor day after pills

[BoobMan]

That's because you only date Jedi knights of pulling out!

[DizzyDesii]

@BoobMan lmao but had it been up to me, they wouldn't have been pulling out 🤣

[BoobMan]

LOL! That's WHY they needed to be Jedi knights! lol!

[Dargil]

Nope. I also don't disapprove of The Rhythm Method, AKA Vatican Roulette. No conception, no problem.

[genericname85]

well birth control prevents conception. so that would be a very logical thing to think.

[Smashingdoozy]

Prevents ovulation, conception and last resort implantation

[genericname85]

without ovulation there can't be conception.

[Smashingdoozy]

They're fail safes. If ovulation does happen to take place, then fertilization is prevented, if both somehow manage to take place then implantation is prevented. If all fail you're pregnant 😀

[genericname85]

anyway. it's not conception.

[Smashingdoozy]

Implantation happens after conception...

[genericname85]

implantation is one of the 2 defining aspects of conception. fertilization AND implantation equals conception. you leave one out, you don't have conception.

[Smashingdoozy]

Conception is literally just the sperm fertilizing the egg in the fallopian tube...

[genericname85]

No. Cause a fertilized egg, that never implants won't generate viable offspring.

[Smashingdoozy]

If that's what you want to believe then fine. But it is incorrect.

[genericname85]

So you're saying that a fertilized egg does grow into a viable fetus if it's not implanted in the womb?

[Smashingdoozy]

No. I'm saying you're wrong about what conception is.

[genericname85]

If that's not what you're saying, then you're not saying that I'm wrong.

[Smashingdoozy]

Me "Conception is literally just the sperm fertilizing the egg in the fallopian tube..."

You "no"

[genericname85]

yeah. cause fertilizing the egg isn't enough for conception. the egg also needs to be implanted in the womb. so you need both these things or else you're not having a baby. there's a reason "fertilization" and "conception" aren't the same word.

[Smashingdoozy]

They're used interchangeably... "Conception happens when sperm swims up through the vagina and fertilizes an egg in the fallopian tube. "

"Within 24 hours of ovulation: Sperm fertilizes an egg (conception occurs)."

my.clevelandclinic.org/.../11585-conception

[genericname85]

and what happens when a fertilized egg never implants in the womb? doesn't have to be because of birth control. can be for random reasons cause biology is weird. then you're not pregnant and you're not having a baby and it's not an abortion at all.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Life begins when it's born which is why we celebrate birthdays and have birth certificates for everyone. No body cares when everyone is conceive.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

*conceived

[Anonymous]

Yes I personally plan on never using any form of birth control although I won't lie I did take the morning after pill before

[_piotr]

Only natural family planning seems ok in some cases.

[TheStaleMarshmellow]

I've committed genocide with every ejaculation then

[captain_voidwalker]

Contraception is fine, but aborting a baby is murder.

[Smashingdoozy]

What's the difference

[captain_voidwalker]

Contraception prevents conception from taking place. Abortion is taking a living human being and killing them in utero

[Smashingdoozy]

Contraception also prevents a fertilized egg from implanting

[captain_voidwalker]

Most just prevent fertilization from occurring

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

No. I believe in birth control if the woman choose to use it.

[WhatLurksWithin]

I believe life begins once the fetus is separated from the host. Otherwise it is just an attachment, an appendage.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe that life begins at conception and I support the use of hormonal birth control.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Sounds like a catholic lol

[Anonymous]

The egg is never fertilized so….. Nope

[Smashingdoozy]

Birth control prevents implantation if fertilization takes place