Am I racist for not renting to African Americans?

[Anonymous]

My husband and I are running a side hussle buying and renting properties. We've previously rented to multiple African American couples and everytime they've trashed the place. With Asian and white couples we were begging then to stay because they actually improved the place and the property prices rose, whereas with black folks the property prices sunk.

Updates

11 mo

Was talking to some other landlords who just spent a year trying to evict tenants who wouldn't pay their rent, they trashed the place its going to cost them thousands to fix. You don't need to guess who they rented to.

[abc3643]

This is an AITA question and, yes, YTA, but I will cut you a lot of slack on that - you're really NTA, but...

I can understand your desires, but it's still racist to do what you suggest.

Not only is it racist, it's unlawful!

Not renting to Blacks or any other persons based on their ethnicity is a violation of the Fair Housing Act of 1968.

In fact, THIS IS EXACTLY HOW DONALD TRUMP INITIALLY BECAME FAMOUS (in NYC, at least) IN 1973!

Back in 1973, Donald Trump and his father were sued by the United States (aka The Federal Government) for violating the Fair Housing Act of 1968. Why? They wouldn't rent to Blacks or certain other groups. The evidence showed they were as guilty as sin. Luckily for them, the Trumps settled out of court, but this was front page news (*) in New York when they were charged in October 1973. This is why New Yorkers have always known what a profound racist douchebag he has been. The only votes Trump ever gets in NY is from fellow racists. That's why he made his permanent residence change from New York to Florida several years ago: The rest of us know in New York know what a rat fucking bastard he is. The rest of the country is just 30 to 40 years behind us.

So, don't be like Trump and don't commit a felony.

(*) Look at the bottom center of this NYT front page.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/10/16/archives/major-landlord-accused-of-antiblack-bias-in-city-us-accuses-major.html

Major Landlord Accused Of Antiblack Bias in CityBy Morris Kaplan
Oct. 16, 1973

The Department of Justice, charging discrimination against blacks in apartment rentals, brought suit in Federal Court in Brooklyn yesterday against the Trump Management Corporation, a major owner and manager of real estate here.

The corporation, which owns and rents more than 14,000 apartments in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island, was accused of violating the Fair Housing Act of 1968 in its operation of 39 buildings. Most are in Coney Island, Brooklyn, and in Jamaica Estates and Forest Hills, Queens.

Seeking an injunction to halt alleged discriminatory practises, the Government contended that Trump Management had refused to rent or negotiate rentals “because of race and color.” It also charged that the company had required different rental terms and conditions because of race and that it had misrepresented to blacks that apartments were not available.

At the corporation's main office, 600 Avenue Z in Brooklyn, Donald Trump, president, denied the charges.

“They are absolutely ridiculous,” he said. “We never have discriminated, and we never would. There have been a number of local actions against us, and we've won them all. We were charged with discrimination, and we proved in court that we did not discriminate.”

Mr. Trump and his father, Fred C. Trump, the principal stockholder and corporate board chairman, were also named as defendants. They are required to respond to the complaint within 20 days. The Trump family has been in the real‐estate business for more than 40 years.

In Washington, J. Stanley Pottinger, assistant attorney general in charge of the Justice Department's civil‐rights division, termed the suit the second major rental discrimination action begun by the department in the last two years.

The first involved Samuel J. Lofrak, one of the country's largest builders. The Justice Department had charged racial discrimination in the renting of 21,000 Lefrak‐controlled apartments in 150 buildings in Brooklyn and Queens.

Agreement With Lefrak

That case was resolved on Jan. 28, 1971, in an agreement between the Justice Department and the Lefrak Organization. Lefrak promised to prohibit discrimination in apartment rentals, and subsequently fifty black families were assisted in moving into predominantly white buildings.

The New York Urban League, whose Operation Open City had filed complaints against the Lefrak Organization, called the agreement “a great disappointment” to numerous other blacks and Puerto Ricans “who for years have been denied an equal chance at Lefrak”s housing units.” Occupancy by blacks and Puerto Ricans has risen “substantially” at Lefrak buildings since then, according to Mr. Pottinger.

He said the Trump case had been referred to the Justice Department by the New York City Commission on Human Rights and was based, in part, on allegations made by Operation Open City. Specific violations were not mentioned in the complaint.

The average monthly rental for a one‐bedroom apartment in the Trump “villages” is about $250, according to the younger Trump. A two‐bedroom rental is about $290.

=======================

If I was a smart evil conservative - and there are quite a few of those - the way out of this jam is to raise the rent on your property to the point that lower class folks (of any race or ethnicity) can't afford to rent from you. Furthermore, you could also elevate the security deposit.

This is the sort of thing that Southerners did 60+ years ago to disenfranchise Blacks so they wouldn't vote. Southern Whites in power would have poll taxes - in essence, you have to pay to vote. Since Black folks were poor, they couldn't pay the poll taxes and thus couldn't vote. This kept White candidates winning elections... and why we have the 24th Amendment ratified in 1964:

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

So, you see, overtly discriminating is no good, so the Southerners used a symptom of many Blacks then - poverty - against them. That's why that amendment was written.

=====

OK, now here's something else you can do, but check with a lawyer...

Back to the security deposit...

When hiring a new employee, many companies have a "probationary period" of about 6 months. If the employee doesn't measure up in that time, they are let go. I lost a job this way 20 years ago.

Now, what you COULD do... maybe... and check with a lawyer... is do the same thing with new tenants... Have a high ___initial___ security deposit for a new tenant. Then, if the tenant is OK, you will refund half (or whatever) of the security deposit back to the tenant. If the tenant is not OK, you evict. This all goes into the lease agreement, of course.

I'd check for the legality of this, but I'd think it is possible.

=====

Again, I appreciate what you are going through, but you can't be racist and saying "Blacks" is racist.

Let's face it - what you really want are tenants who aren't going to trash the place.

Not all Blacks are going to trash the place.
Furthermore, trashing the place is not exclusive to Blacks; other ethnicities are quite capable doing so too.

So, you just need a better way to (legally!) screen or weed-out potential trashy tenants...

[Asker]

Like anything legal. it has to be proven.

[Jackblue]

Not in lawsuits, reasonable doubt only applies in criminals cases, if you get sued (since they aren't trying to send you to jail), all they need is a greater than 50% chance you are discriminating and the plaintiffs will get a lot of money out of you.

[Asker]

@Jackblue they can try. One couple did try. After contacting their previous landlords who produced photographic, video and legal documentation on them trashing previous residencies the case was thrown out and our legal costs paid. As well as $2000 for harassment and defamation.

[Asker]

I mean the cost to their previous landlords was huge.

[abc3643]

I am going to simply say this: again, if you violate the law you're going to get burned. And in this case, you're really going to get burned because you asked this question and this question will be admitted into evidence and it will be discovered. You know what you're doing, you have a background in this issue, and you are aware of the statute, that is the Fair Housing Act of 1968.

So, what you need to do is not discriminated against Black folks but to discriminate against trashy renters.

[Asker]

But it won't be discovered

[abc3643]

Yes it will. They got Trump 52 years ago. They can get you today.

[Asker]

Trump's dad.

[abc3643]

... And Trump. Read the indictment. Read the article I posted.

[Asker]

Trump took over the company after. I suppose they saved millions more than they were forced to pay.

[IHaveRespawned]

These days, everyone believes racism = bad. Sometimes it is pattern recognition, culture, and the overall social environment. If she has had very poor experiences with black tenants, she has every reason to be even more cautious. After all, these are HER properties. She should have the right to accept or deny anyone who uses her property.

[abc3643]

@IHaveRespawned she should be cautious absolutely. But she shouldn't be racist. In business we would say that she should do her due diligence. Have a background check done on any any prospective tenant. Ask for references and follow up and call them. Just making a blanket statement. "I'm not going to rent to black people" is both racist and unlawful.

One other thing: Convicts often say this: "Commit a federal crime, you do the time."

In federal court, you will have to serve 85% of your sentence if convicted of federal charges.

[IHaveRespawned]

You can probably identify which ones will be the reckless ones just by a quick glance. If they are under 50, have names like Lavonte or LaKeisha, the woman having an ass of a baboon, the male having pants that slope down to expose their boxers or sporting their "bling", blare loud base rap music as they pull in the driveway, or if they are accompanied by little snot-nosed creatures, they are likely bad news.

[abc3643]

@IHaveRespawned How someone looks I do not believe is a legally acceptable reason to deny someone housing.

LOOK ALL:
This is fucking simple.
You have a choice to make and are legally obligated by society to make one of those choices.

CHOICE 1:
Practice racist behavior by denying someone the possibility of renting from you solely based on their ethnicity. This is a violation of the Fair Housing Act of 1968 and is a federal felony. Committing a federal crime means that you are doing at least 85% of your prison sentence before they consider releasing you.

CHOICE 2:
Find other legal methods of discriminating.

BOTTOM LINE: After if you are a landlord, you don't want your rental place trashed. Therefore, you need to find a way to identify as best you can (meaning doing your due diligence) those people who would be good renters and those who would not. If you don't want to do that but, instead, just want to ban potential renters solely based on their ethnicity, then you're a racist... and a felon.

And, they can find you and, unfortunately for you, this very question is admissible in court as evidence to be used against you.

SO:
Do yourself a favor.
Look in the mirror and ask: Am I a racist?
Only you can answer that.
But, even if you are, if you practice it in who you rent to, you will be committing a federal crime.
And, it isn't a question of "if" that you will be burned, but "when" because, sooner or later, you're going to be caught.

[Asker]

So. The choice is between running a successful side buisness and going broke?

[abc3643]

No, The choice is being between a racist or not. If you exclude people solely based upon their ethnicity, you're a racist... and a felon. And I have news for you: They don't have all-White prisons, so you'll be getting a lot of fellow black "renters" where you'll be eating and sleeping.

[Asker]

White collar crime means you will be put in with mostly white people.

[Danzigdawson]

The neighborhood or the real estate industry in your area may be racist if they associate Black tenants with a lower value of property.

However, you associate Black people with "trashing the place". The color of their skin didn't make them trash the place. Yes, you have had bad experiences with more than one African-American, if what you say is true, but had these problematic tenants been white, would you stop renting to white people? I'm pretty confident to say that no, you wouldn't.

On the other hand, if you're one of those slumlords who's got a low rent "better than nothing" type of property, don't expect the cream of the crop, tenant-wise, whatever the color of their skin.

But, yes, it seems that you are sort of racist towards Black people.

[IHaveRespawned]

If the blacks remained in Africa, they would be living in dung huts. Even a black woman herself explained the only black achievements were under the influence of white people. Look at most of Africa today.

https://youtu.be/YClIfiwBD_8?si=Pv3yHJjZu0NDepAp

[Asker]

You also get their references from other their previous landlord or if they can't produce a reference and then you decide based on intuition and my intuition almost always never wrong. Like we passed on an African American couple six months ago and they actually moved in to the house opposite the one we are renting. They trashed it, cops bust down the doors 3 times. We know the landlords, it cost them thousands in property damage to fix and they are owed months of rent.
We are not slumlords. Our properties are well maintained and we quickly replace or renew anything that needs it. We specifically look for good white couples that will treat the place like their own, even allowing them to redecorate say with new wallpaper or paint, new tiles or hardwood floors. One couple even installed a jacuzzi bath tub. We've even lowered the rent a little to get couples like that in because they are essentially adding to the value of the house, maintaining it for us and paying off the mortgage for us all very hassle and stress free for us.

[Jackblue]

Ok then here is what you should do, require all tenants to have a good reference from a previous landlord. Hopefully then you will get black tenants who are better than the ones you have had in the past.

[Asker]

@Jackblue why take the risk?

[Jackblue]

I have said my piece, if it doesn't convince you then whatever.

[Asker]

@Jackblue but if its your property would you take the risk?

[Jackblue]

I wouldn't know, I have never engaged in that sort of business so it is not my place to say what I would do. I only know the law and I can assume that if I were black I would not be happy about your policies.

[Danzigdawson]

@Asker You take a risk with every new tenant. They can be white, black, Asian, female, male, gay, straight, christian, muslim, indian, australian, Canadian or any other feature that's not listed here.

You take a risk with every new tenant, but it seems pretty clear that Black people are to you an automatic "risk" that you don't want to take.

This, as well as the other racially-charged comments you've made here, are the reasons why you are indeed racist.

[Asker]

We do rent to some Nigerian couples, great tenants

[IHaveRespawned]

It is not so much skin color as much as it is with African American culture. Blacks over the many decades have adopted this hip hop, thug-glorifying culture centered around entitlement, violence, and aggression. There are a few exceptions to the norm, but there is a reason no one wants to be present in a predominantly black community. It is outright dangerous.

This black thug kid became uppity towards me when I ran into a grocery store in a rough side of town, all because I looked at him. All these LaQueefas, Latavius', Shantels, and Demitius' can be really ducking dangerous and destructive in the blink of an eye.

[IHaveRespawned]

*really fucking dangerous. Damn this autocorrect!

[Asker]

@IHaveRespawned I stopped going to fast food places because there often is a fight due to socioeconomics

[IHaveRespawned]

Predominantly black neighborhoods are shitholes:

https://youtu.be/c6qKR6fR01U?si=mWvEUeLpH6VXK_9V

[NoDecision]

Nope, it's business. Would you rent to a person who could not afford the monthly rent? If a certain breed of person, like a Gypsie, who are known to trash houses they rent, why would you be required to rent to them? You shouldn't have to take a monetary loss to rent to anyone. This is why they fill out applications, so you can check them out and see if they have any black marks.

[itsannalee]

In Singapore, also kinda hard to find an apartment to rent for Indian. It’s not because the skin color, but most landlords afraid of the smell of spices from what they cook.

[Asker]

Agreed. We 2 have apartments in an apartment block we rent. We kept losing good tenants and trouble finding good tenants because across the hall were indians and you smell their apartment, smelt like 1000 baby diapers.

[NoDecision]

1,000 baby diaper smell is not bad if they are unused. 😅

[abc3643]

I do know what you mean about the Indians... Yeah, you can smell the place where Indians live from down the street. 31 years ago, I was a took a room in an apartment which had 2 Indian guys, but the one was going on co-op. You could smell that building 75 yards away, the stench of curry was so overwhelming. At the time, I was basically homeless, so I had to do what I had to. I lived with it. Fortunately, the other Indian guy moved out within a month or two.

[NoDecision]

@abc3643 He didn't like the smell either it seems.

[mattthefatbat]

Its not quite racist based on your experience but by far this could have been seen before it happened with a background check of the people you rent to. But honestly i really understand where you're coming from with this.

Also i'd seriously love to be able to rent my own place and take care of it and im also black. But I dont make anywhere near enough for most places.

[IHaveRespawned]

I do not blame you at all. Plus, you don't want to turn a nice family neighborhood into a shithole

[IHaveRespawned]

There are few blacks whom I would consider outstanding citizens. The majority, sadly, will try to cheat themselves out in every way possible of taking accountability, will take advantage of circumstances when they see fit, or will be careless, impulsive or hostile.

[Danzigdawson]

Like you're an upstanding citizen 😄😄

[IHaveRespawned]

@Danzigdawson lol, not really. I have a troubled past, but I have made great strides to improve over the years. I am not like a wild pack of black thugs who would "put a cap in yo azz" if provoked. I tip my servers and waiters. I try to be generous.

[Asker]

Replacing doors in a property that the police have raided gets expensive as does fixing walls and electrics because your tenants stole the electric wiring to sell.

[DonaldDarko]

Yes

[FreyaRed]

Oh noo!!! my eyes burn because I've read the truth.

[RavVid]

I found out it wasn't good renting to two single white moms. They paid the first month and it took me three months to get them out.

Couples should generally be good.

[Asker]

Agreed. We don't rent to single mothers like if they are on welfare. Also no dogs.

[MackBoy]

It is not racist and you'll are doing the right thing. The place should be rented to the people who keeps the place clean and doesn't cause any damages. Please continue what you are doing.

[Bricealan]

You rent to whom you WANT to rent to. I find Asian people are the most respectful to/of other's properties

[Asker]

Depends on the Asian though.

[Jackblue]

Well it is unfortunate that you had problems with black people in the past, but the law is the law, you can't refuse to rent on the grounds of race and you could be sued if it was revealed.

[Asker]

Obviously I would never admit based on race.

[Staximus]

I'm calling bullshit on young people being able to afford to buy multiple houses for one, and any landlord who has common sense would check references

[Asker]

References can be faked. My husband was left property from his father and we've built upon it.

[Shiprex]

Yes you are racist. A free market doesn't do the colour of someone's skin as a reason not to do business.

[fonduegirl]

Yes, that's racist.

Make them clean the place before checking out. Problem solved

[Asker]

Cleaning is not the issue.

[fonduegirl]

Then what is

[Asker]

Giant holes in the wall for starters. Bad decorating. Fire damage. Police breaking down the door etc

[fonduegirl]

Oh I see

[exitseven]

It is easy to blame an entire group on the behavior of a few bad apples. You need to do a better job checking references and financials.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Gee, Mr. President, I didn't know you're on G@G!!!

[Asker]

How would you feel if someone trashed your property and it would take thousands to fix?

[beefcakebradybatson]

WHITE trailer trash do worse than that. When's your birthday so I can buy you a nice white sheet and hood, lassie?

[Jackblue]

Even if what you are saying is true, "white trailer trash" usually own their own trailers, that is how it works in a trailer park so their housekeeping habits are no loss to the owner of said park. Nevertheless, you are right that she should not discriminate on the grounds of race. Instead she should try to do better background checks and hopefully she will get some black tenants who maintain the place well.

[Asker]

Actually a nice white couple will add value to the property in its upkeep, renovation and property value.

[JesseP1nk]

"The Civil Rights Act of 1964"

Im pretty sure they could sue you for that.

[Asker]

Its been tried before but those that tried had been evicted multiple times and had trashed previous residencies

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Yes, that’s a discriminatory practice

[Asker]

But is it wrong if these people keep trashing our rentals and refusing to pay rent?

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

You have no proof that they will do that every single time, so it’s discriminatory.

[Asker]

A reference from a previous landlord proves it everytime

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

One reference is not proof and wouldn’t hold up in court and you know it

[Asker]

Its held up before where we were able to say that we didn't rent to them because they tradhed their last place.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

So you’ve been sued for this already?

[Anonymous]

Here you'd get taken to court for that, know of a landlord who has been sued for that

[Asker]

A few tried but then we were able to talk to their previous landlords who were more than happy to testify that they were bad tenants

[Sabretooth]

you should've seen my childhood trailer.

[Anonymous]

You should know if you are...

[austinbooth]

Yes you are.

[Anonymous]

Nice fake story