I'm not big on guns. But if there are going uo BE guns in existence then thats the real problem. Because making sonething illegal doesn't stop bad people. Robbery is illegal. Murder is illegal. But bad people will do as people do. It's only right good people have equal ability to defend themselves. This is again problematic because. Because saying ok to guns also makes MORE bad people have easier access. So round and round it goes. I stand by no guns made at all is only way to prevent gun crime. Yes other methods will be used - knife crime instead - but it takes a lot more guts to physically go up to someone and stab than pull a trigger from a far distance.
After that Ukrainian woman got stabbed I've started carrying a revolver.
Yes good guys with guns stop more crimes and murders than leftist media will tell you.. doesn’t fit the narrative. At a Glance: Key Defensive Gun Use Figures
Lol uvalde effectively destroyed the ‘good guy with a gun’ myth completely for me.
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It would be a bullet proof cage with zero connection to people the only way to protect him retroactively.
This is honestly what pisses me off most from reactionary people. There's something catastrophic that happened is the only time to do anything.
This reminds me of the McDonald's hot coffee accident. 100,000s get small burns and nurse it normal in cold water or just go on without caring. 10,000 get super hurt go to a doctor and told be more careful until someone melts there genitalia close. With all the evidence of ignoring problems for decades until some is in the ICU or dead. Then there's consequences.
Sure dark money lobbyists gave turning point usa $85 million dollars to be a nazi propaganda machine. It's a sad way to go being a living target dummy for the real people who are bankrupting you.
It's a falacy because the event wasn't about physical weapons; it was a spiritual conflict. The assassin had a gun, but the real weapon was the spiritual power of the victim, which created a kind of spiritual shield that even a physical gun couldn't penetrate. More guns wouldn't have prevented it; they would have just been irrelevant to the actual cause. It just shows how blind our materialistic world is to the spiritual forces that are actually shaping reality.
Uh huh
Look at you, trying to use people's words against them. Here's the thing, the good guy with a gun argument doesn't apply here, considering this was a sniper that no one knew was there. He did his evil and fled, no one had a chance to engage him. But, you knew that.
First of all, "good guy with a gun" is not a fallacy. There is strong empirical evidence that it works. If you don't want to take the word of a conservative, go look up the report that Obama commissioned on gun violence. Check out the defensive use of guns part. Or look up any of the other studies on defensive use of guns.
Second, do you always cherry pick and draw broad conclusions from it? That's the real fallacy here.
Do you think one size fits all? "Good guy with a gun" would not apply in this case. That argument is about something entirely different.
There is zero empirical evidence that a "good guy with a gun" works and a mountain of evidence that proves it to be stupid and dangerous. Also, its cute that you bring up cherry picking when you point towards "defensive use" statistics as if its a comprehensive summary of the problem with guns in civilian hands.
But let me pose a little mystery for you. If 32% of adult Americans owns guns which is roughly 110 million people, why is it so rarely seen in practice? I mean, every 3rd person that gets assaulted or murdered should have ended in a mutual firefight right? And yet it does not. Almost like a "good guy with a gun" is incredibly inefficient and unreliable.
Furthermore, it introduces new dangers such as having your gun stolen, used against you, accidents or suicide. Not to mention that once a gun is introduced into a situation it goes from "someone might get a black eye" to "someone is coming home in a casket" and that someone might well be the "good guy with a gun".
@Syntosi
Yes there IS strong empirical evidence that people with guns prevent crimes a LOT. You are simply denying it rather than speaking with any knowledge.
"I mean, every 3rd person that gets assaulted or murdered should have ended in a mutual firefight right?"
You can't be serious. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are totally guessing and making stuff up off the top of your head. Why would you think there would be a shootout? That kind of thinking shows how little you know about it.
All you have to do is show a gun and that's the end of it. This isn't fucking Hollywood with bullets flying everywhere.
" it goes from "someone might get a black eye" to "someone is coming home in a casket" "
Just like the last part I quoted. And the same argument to refute it. Just showing a gun STOPS the crime in the vast majority of cases.
Do some research before posting nonsense. I already said where you can start looking. I don't usually even do that much because I think people should be responsible and research things on their own.
There is no empirical evidence. At most I have seen a bunch of studies done by pro gun lobbies which is highly suspect and most produce quite hilarious estimates that needless to say does not represent reality. Considering the estimates of defensive gun use ranges from 55,000 to 4.7 million in the same year.. Yeah, that is some prime bullshit going on right there.
Also, if you want to prove that defensive gun use prevents crime then you need to further refine these numbers into those where the gun improved the outcome, made it worse and where the outcome were unchanged. And I am saying that because pulling a gun on someone is a sure way to escalate the situation that might not have needed to escalate.
And no, I am not making stuff up. one in every 3rd person in USA say they are armed according to survey data and the shootout part was just me being hyperbolic for some colorful comedic commentary. Its not meant to be taken seriously but rather to highlight that in lack of overwhelming evidence of gun use it appears they are not particularly useful.
And here I sit, having done my research before we even started this conversation, owing to the fact that I have actually looked up the numbers of gun owners and the data behind defensive gun use, where as you are sitting here talking about Hollywood movies and naive beliefs that just displaying a gun will magically resolve a situation.
@Syntosi
Geez, where to start? How about the top...
"55,000 to 4.7 million"
I have never seen either of those extremes. The extremes are more like 100K to 3M. I never even saw the 100K figure until I read the Obama report, which strongly implied it was an outlier. Throw out the outliers and the range is more like 800K to 1.5M.
Yes they will vary. That is to be expected. Why? Because when crimes are prevented, no crime took place, so there is no police report. Most likely the police never even knew about it. So the ONLY way to come up with the numbers is by survey.
We also know that criminals themselves say that citizens with guns are a deterrent. That is also common sense. A criminal will pick an easy target rather than someone with a gun.
"just me being hyperbolic for some colorful comedic commentary."
Point taken. You didn't mean it literally. But I do think you meant it as more than an extreme exception.
@Syntosi
"I am saying that because pulling a gun on someone is a sure way to escalate the situation"
This qualifies as making stuff up. Pulling a gun escalates a situation? Do you think criminals have that little regard for their own life? Being a criminal and being suicidal are not the same thing.
Have you been in jail? I have, many times. I've been around a LOT of criminals: including armed robbers, rapists, and murderers ( yes those are all plural ). Not just in jail, but outside of jail. Those people aren't crazed lunatics who will charge someone with a gun, or start shooting back. They are actually pretty normal - maybe a little rough around the edges.
Why did I mention Hollywood? Because the things you are saying sound more like Hollywood than the real world. Hollywood not only shows "shootouts" as you called it, they also portray an image of criminals that is far from accurate.
The armed robbers, rapists and murderers I've known were just people. If they didn't tell you about their crimes, you'd think they were just normal people. The point is that they are like anyone else. If a gun is pointed at them, they do NOT escalate things. What would YOU do if a gun was pointed at you? Well, they would do the same thing.
Geez, why am I not surprised? Even if you have not found either of those extremes, I have. Even if you want to go with your 100k to 3m that would still be hilariously bad. Even if you want to throw out the outliers (for no apparent reason) and go with 800k to 1.5m that is STILL not giving much hope for accurate data even after all these compromises.
And no, the source being from surveys is not an excuse. There is no reason why you could not get reliable numbers from surveys since we literally do it all the time and the methodology is well understood. If anything this just feeds into my argument that the groups and organizations that conducts these surveys are not trustworthy.
I also dont buy the arguments that "criminals themselves say that citizens with guns are a deterrent" when 1/3rd of the population is armed and it is also an anecdotal argument and can therefore be ignored.
As for my comment that "every 3rd person that gets assaulted or murdered should have ended in a mutual firefight right?" it was in regards to how we dont really see the effects of USA's extremely high percentage of gun ownership, especially according to the effects that you predict such as crime prevention. If you for example compare US crime rates with other developed countries then there is no sign that USA is benefiting from any "good guy with a gun".
As for pulling a gun causing the situation to escalate? You misunderstand. I dont believe criminals are suicidal. On the contrary, I expect that any sane man or woman would be afraid or panic if someone pulls a gun on them. The problem is that people who are afraid or panic are not rational people and often do stupid stuff. Furthermore, I would even argue that the person holding the gun is an even bigger problem because they are more than likely also afraid and prone to panic which is also a recipe for disaster. A situation where people are afraid and acting irrationally is like the worst place I could think of to introduce firearms, no matter who gets to hold it.
The people with the guns should have cleared those rooftops. Nobody else needed any it wouldn't have helped. Just like nothing would have helped the Las Vegas shooting but professionals.
It isn’t the number of guns. It’s the laws restricting them need to be removed. We can’t have them in schools, post offices, bars, liquor stores, most churches etc yet we have had mass shootings in all those places haven’t we? It’s proof you can put all the restrictions you want on a gun but criminals don’t give a fuck about your laws or restrictions. You’re only preventing law abiding citizens from protecting themselves and giving criminals the advantage
It's a person who pulls the trigger. If there were no guns, people bent on killing would find other ways to do it, like the heinous stabbing of a woman on a train in Charlotte.
GTEAT!!! Stabbing is less efficient than shooting!! More survivors
@DrPepper12 the Ukrainian girl is still dead and the killer…. Well if the left had their way would be back on the streets.
Now if everyone was armed he stabs girl and someone shoots him dead. 2 deaths are much better then this guy on the streets stabbing as many people as he wants…. It’s not the immediate results as much as it is stopping evil from continuing to do evil. This guy was arrested and let go 14 times.
George Floyd was arrested more then 20 times (google was sure of an exact number) before he died from a fentanyl overdose.
This BS pattern of catch and release wouldn’t happen in a society that could protect themselves. They took away guns in England and then they took away knives… only from the citizens. They still have gun and knife murders although lower it’s the law abiding who are getting killed. Criminals don’t turn in their guns when asked. Law abiding citizens do.
@AviatorTom you are correct. In a world without guns a man with a hatchet could do horrible damage to small school children and who could stop him? A 22 year old female teacher? Only if that teacher carried a gun, and was trained properly how to use it.
Every school shooter was stopped by a gun… a policeman’s gun or their own….
Why not volunteer to be a target for a sniper while you are surrounded by armed people and let us know how that worked out for you if you are still around.
you spelled "fact" wrong. More guns, can't prevent ALL shootings. That's like saying more condoms prevent ALL pregnancies. But they do prevent some. Case closed. I win again. Nice try. But not really. A low effort rage bait on your part.
Yeah, pretty much it would be like the old West, balance of power
If only we could keep the guns out of the hands of angry leftists.
@crimsyjo It's ironic that you, a European, have a wiser perspective on gun issues than many in the US. You're a good egg.
Yeah. That's the problem according to FBI & InterPol. 😑🙄
Evidence, please.
Try Google. Or reality. I don't give lazy MAGAs handouts. I'm barely giving a fuck away.
I already did, that's why I asked. Admittedly, I did not search InterPol, but the FBI sources I found do not support your claim. That's why I gave you the opportunity to show evidence to support it. Apparently you have none though.
And I'm not MAGA. Never voted for the man. But Tyler Robinson was an angry leftists, which is why I said what I did.
I still think that being armed is safer than being unarmed, especially when the other guy has a gun.
Newsflash, Dr. Pecker. It is a WW2 Mauser hunting rifle. I guess the Democrat poster boy, Adolf Hitler did not ban them.
@Metaworld Or blow your head clean off. Guessing it might have been a fatal graze through the neck. Like what would have happened at Butler if Trump has not turned.
Im advocating for you on the left to be arrested for your violent rhetoric
Your logic is flawed.
Are you really comparing armed, law abiding citizens with counter snipers? 😜😜😜
Newsflash to Dr. Puker. They are.
no but less libtards would make us safer
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