Another school shooting — this time with at least three dead and six injured.
At what point is it not simple common sense to outlaw firearms with strong enough consequences?
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+1 y
I thought I'd see a response from this.
We all know the stricter gun laws are coming; it's just when and how strict. What is said here has no effect to that fact. What is apparent is how worried some gun lovers are knowing many of their guns may be taken away.
And please, if you want to try and make an educated response, don't show your lack of intelligence by using vulgarities.
Can you believe no one with a conceal carry permit whipped out their gun? At what point is it not simple common sense to outlaw firearms?
We accept, with any right, the potentiality that it may conduce to evil as much as it may conduce to good. The method by which a right is exercised is less consequential then the social context and intellectual suppositions in which it is exercised.
The real issue with the Second Amendment is that rights are viewed by Americans in absolutist terms. As Burke pointed out, such "natural rights" do exist, but "their abstract perfection is their practical defect." Such rights are applied with too little regard to the cultural context in which they exist.
There is much to suggest that the culture is incapable of prudently and sensibly managing the rights it abstractly attributes to itself. Alexander Hamilton made the point that if you have a Bill of Rights you extend to the government the authority to regulate those rights.
Indeed, the regulation of those rights is actually routine. Free speech is limited by slander, perjury, defamation and copyright laws, among others. Freedom of religion is allowed consistent with public order - if a religion calls for human sacrifice, it is prohibited. There are other examples and the list is long.
However, in the matter of the right to bear arms, in part, guns are woven into the culture in various ways. An emphasis on self-defense - particularly in urban areas where crime tends to be high - rural areas where hunting is an important sport, gun collectors and gun clubs, and, as you noted, an ethic rooted in America's libertarian traditions of resistance to tyranny. (Though the notion that the government is a threat to liberty at this interregnum in the nation's life is patently absurd. So supine is the government that it cannot even balance its budget lest it ask the public to pay for what they buy.)
The segment of the population that tends toward absolutism on the Second Amendment is actually quite small, but is extremely intense. Whereas those who take a more nuanced view of gun rights tend to be less intense and more ambivalent. It is not generally their top priority and so the country tends, on the whole, to give both culturally and legally a wide scope to gun rights.
However, it is not at all clear that the culture, as it devolves into a populist tone and an abstract libertarianism with an emphasis on individualism at the expense of community standards, that the society can handle responsibly the rights it has accrued to itself. Including gun rights.
Burke said "men have no right to that which is not reasonable," and rights must be defined through the prism of the context in which they are exercised. What the nation has in the Second Amendment is a right that presupposes an ethic of community standards that are at this moment in the nation's life, at best, fraying. In short, that presupposition needs to be re-examined and, pace Hamilton, the right needs to be regulated in the light of such a re-examination.
In short, what matters is not the method, but the ethical and social context in which rights are defined and exercised. Americans are, in this time in history, inclined to view freedom as an end in itself and not a means to an end and thus rights are defined in absolutist terms. Here is where the problem begins.
Thus I am an advocate of moderate gun control. Things like gun confiscations, buy backs and the like going too far, but recognizing that no right is absolute but is always weighed against other rights and practical considerations.
However, what has modified my views somewhat was the recent violence in places like Seattle, where the state essentially abdicated its most basic and fundamental responsibility, i. e. the protection of life and property. Also, the recent "de-fund the Police" movement and the failure of prosecutors to go after offenders and such. This all in the name of an absurd quasi-Utopianism.
Thomas Hobbes famously wrote in "Leviathan" that life in the state of nature is "nasty, brutish and short." Therefore the state exists to restrain human nature and maintain order, stability and security.
Not surprisingly, when the state walks away - deliberately and consciously - from its most basic obligation, then people have no choice but to fall back upon themselves and thus guns take on a more urgent and elemental need. The public has been left then to the tender mercies of man unrestrained by morals or law and being unable to turn to the state for basic security, has little recourse but to turn to elements of self-defense, this including firearms.
Thus at the most basic level, the need for a prudent level of gun control has not changed. However, that conclusion being contingent on the reliability of the state to enforce the laws, protect the social order and give to security to the individual.
The state has - in places like Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, and San Francisco - proven itself inconsistent and unreliable in the execution of its most fundamental duty. No citizen of any nation should be obliged to depend upon such a feckless guardian.
And that's the problem. The ultra right wants to argue about running around with their beloved guns and will claim to their dying breath that doing so somehow stops more Violence.
The 'good guys' with their guns don't magically jump out to stop these shootings. It's way past time to get with the rest of the world on this!
You can't expect them to if you ban firearms from the school- you're suffering from cognitive dissonance. The school should have had resource officers, though- did it?
@MrShaun did you forget those two armed churchgoers who prevented a massacre inside that church? Oh I guess you conveniently did because your precious liberal media doesn't like to promote things like that because it contradicts your anti-2A agenda.
Dude… law abiding gun owners don’t carry in locations that they are forbidden to carry in. like schools. Putting up a sign that says “gun free zone” doesn’t physically stop anyone from bringing in a gun, I just stops law abiding people from doing it. Making that location the prime target for anyone for assholes to shoot the place up as they are way less likely to get shot back. But in locations where people are free to actually fight back… well you get something more like this
There was just something in the news today about a kid took a ghost gun to school to sell and the buyer tried to give him phony money so the guy shot him. I don't think they had metal detectors or any school resource officer either. The kids are basically sitting ducks at a turkey shoot.
They have gun laws that they don't enforce now, such as felons being in possession of a firearm. They are mostly always plea bargained down to a lesser charge instead of throwing the book at them. And you know damn well that even if outlawed crooks will always be able to get on as they do now. Assault type guns are banned in California yet gang members always seem to get ahold of them. Also, where did you hear that anyone at the school had a weapons permit? And even if they had one the schools might ban having them on school grounds as it is supposed to be a gun free zone.
Good post except the part where you confused me here: "Assault type guns are banned in California yet gang members always seem to get ahold of them." Do you just mean a rifle? A rifle painted black? Or do you mean full automatic firearms?
An AR15 is not an assault rifle. AR15 is the civilian semi auto version of the military full auto "assault" rifle. An AR15 is no different in function than any other consumer rifle.
@bamesjond0069 Not according to California law. It doesn't have to be full auto to classify it as an assault weapon. Maybe if they were limited to a 5 round magazine.
Ah well california can make up terms all it wants an AR 15 is no different than any other rifle. Many many many rifles including some beginner/childs first rifles can hold more than 5 rounds. Even an AR15 can be equipped with a small mag and now its not an "assault" rifle? The magazine size is not a function of the gun because all guns that take magazines can have simultaneously a tiny mag or an extended mag. The gun doesn't change in any way.
@bamesjond0069 exactly, even glock hand guns can have a 30 round magazine, just because it has capacity does not make it an assault weapon. Soon liberals will call a glock 19 an assault pistol 🤣
@CreamySeed i have a tshirt that labels parts of a ar15 according to liberals and it calls the stock a "supercharger" and the magazine "holds 10,000 rounds" and all dumb shit like that. Lmfao. Honestly talking to them is just like that, they have no idea about anything that has to do with guns at all. Its like if i walked into a nuclear plant and told them they were doing it all wrong and used made up science jargon I don't know what it even means. Smh
@bamesjond0069 You just can't reason with some of the "logic" in CA. If it's something they don't like, they just hang a bad-sounding name on it. There appear to be some "environmental Barbies" that carry a Prop 65 Cancer warning on them, -- - - - - - --
You gloss right over the fact that society is just producing more and more psychos you just want to kill a ton of random strangers. You guys accept that with no problem. Think about that... in the last 60 years society has started seeing over and over people who just decide to murder strangers. That is new to the world.
You accept that and don't see that as the issue. You just obsess over the tool of choice.
The dude in Wisconsin just decided to do the same thing... he just drove his SUV through a crowd of strangers. He used a different tool.
You obsess over the specific tool. Guns have been around for 200 years. Psychos like this have only been around for 50 or 60.
The gang and city crime throughout the country will probably have 1,000s of death throughout the year. You know... criminals who get black market, illegal guns will kill 1,000s... but this kid killed 4... so you are on a quest to get all the suburbs guns taken... yet you don't seem to give a sheeeet about all the illegals guns the robbers, drug dealers, car jackers, rapists, home invaders will terrorize communities with and kill thousands.
You don't care that anyone can point their steering wheel at a crowd of strangers and hit the accelerator. You don't care how many illegal guns all the criminals have... you are just obsessed someone in the burbs will get a gun. You don't give a sheeet about all the drive by shootings, gang shootings, endless daily shootings in the cities... you are not on a quest to stop the black market guns. Just the legal guns in the suburbs.
You don't want to stop society from producing psychos. You don't care about criminal guns. You don't care about crime shootings and murders. You don't care about car slaughters. You are just obsessed that somebody in the burbs may get a legal gun.
I love how there is this sweeping problem... this blight but you are only concerned about this one tiny aspect of it. The 2-5 big shootings by some legal gun in the burbs per year... you don't care about the thousands of shootings that pile up all year with the illegal, crime guns. Just the legal suburb owner. The cartels, gangs, robbers, murderers, drug dealers, rapists and home invaders and just keep killing by the thousands and have thousands of black market illegal guns. You just want to stop these extremely rare suburb shootings.
While, I do believe that banning guns can be a solution to the problem, but it will not actually solve the problem.
If you go and take a look at many of these shootings, you will start to see a common pattern of them, there was warning signs. The Michigan one being the same, reports have a came out that 2 Teachers of this school had reported concerning behavior of Ethan (The Shooter) there was also Cell Phone Videos Ethan made of him referring to killing students at the school. The Parkland Florida shooting, many students reported to the police and FBI that they believed that Nikolas Cruz could cause serious harm to people. In the Columbine Shooting, The 2 shooters, made threats and videos saying they were going to shoot up the school.
In all of the cases I just mentioned, the all have the same problem, no one took these report seriously. Also, there is way more shootings like these, in that police or authorities of any kind, failed to take action from the reports they received.
Also, Most of these stricter gun laws are more a form of Security Theatre rather than actually a form of preventing shootings from happening. (Security Theatre being a way of making civilians feel safe, while actually doing nothing at all, like the TSA for instance) If we look at most of the stricter gun laws that have been mentioned or even used, most of them are only targeting certain guns, like banning the AR-15 and fails to look at statistics, like in 2015, only 3% of all firearm homicides were committed with riffles, which includes the AR-15 but also includes other rifles that are still attainable. Most of these stricter gun laws also fail to mention the fact that 64% of all firearm homicides are committed by handguns also known as pistols.
The only true way to start making effective changes is for the authorities at all levels to take reports and threats like these more seriously, also teaching authorities, schools staff and normal people, warning signs that someone may be a risk to themselves and or others. While also, if we were to create strict gun laws, it would be better just to abolish the 2nd amendment as whole, and not just ban certain types.
Side Bar, before I get yelled at by the other half of people, I do support the 2nd amendment and everything that it means. So don't yell at me about your rights to carry, as I do support that right, but also support someone's right to not be afraid to send their kids to school.
I own a gun and use it to hunt one week out of the entire year. I just got done hunting in fact and spending a week in the deer stand with a gun did NOT make me want to shot others or myself. It never crossed my mind. Other than that it’s home safely. If robbers or kidnappers break in and they got a gun and you don’t, you’re pretty fucked. The police can drive to your house, but is that enough time to defend yourself or your family until help arrives?
With what’s happening in America and other places in the world that people constantly fail to understand is that it’s NOT a gun problem. It’s a people problem. For an example they outlawed guns in Australia & Britain. Well what’s happening now that they don’t have guns? They’re just stabbing people now! Well what now? Britain just outlawed knifes! Some dude in Britain just got arrested for carrying a tool that has a screwdriver, knife, etc. that he uses for work. Well it’s on his criminal record now for just having a tool for his job. I’m not sure about Australia, but I’m sure knifes are outlawed too. Which is probably why people are stabbing everyone with broken bottles and hitting people with bottles. Clearly these people have issues and need help.
Take away guns and it won’t stop the violence. If your kid has issues or is getting bullied then get them the help they need or comfort them and help your kid! There’s plenty of help out there that people refuse to get until it’s late.
Another thing is that the high school I use to go to had a shooting range for students to use back in the olden days. Students even stored their guns in their lockers until after school. Not one problem with school shootings. Of course that’s not allowed now but that was an interesting fact I learned about my school growing up. How society is today, social media, internet, and how parents are raising their kids or hardly at all I should say. It doesn’t really surprise me how this shit came to be.
If you have a kid, raise them, love them, be there for them, and always check up on them. Same goes for your friends and family.
Yet again you show your ignorance. How many times does it have to be said that guns aren’t the cause of all those shootings?
American left wingers act as if the US is only country that allows citizens to own guns. When in reality almost every non authoritarian and non totalitarian country in the world allows citizens to own certain types of guns. Yet shootings are much less common in those countries or simply don’t happen in those countries. And some of those countries happen to be run by left leaning governments.
This shows that it’s a whole different problem that left wingers never address and that’s our society’s attitude towards mental health and bullying.
Schools punishing a kid for standing up to his or her bully
Society sympathizing with the bully instead of the victim
The stigma attached to mental health which discourages people with mental illnesses to seek help
The ignorance when it comes mental illness.
People being wrongly institutionalized based on misdiagnosis
So why should law abiding responsible gun owners have to suffer the consequences for the actions of an evil or deranged person?
You know what would happen? You liberals just don't get it. Guns are outlawed in schools now. Guess what? there was a shooting. Why are you such a dumb shit? The more degrees you have , the dumber you get.
If you outlaw guns , then only criminals will have them and shootings will only go up. Robberies will go up. Rapes will go up. How can you be such an idiot?
Guess what smash and grabs are illegal , are there smash and grabs?
I love liberals thinking laws stop crime. A decree by Obama is all you needed when he was president and all countries would kiss his ass and there would be peace and prosperity with all countries.
A protection order is going to stop a bullet.
Then liberals said lets get rid of police and we will live in peace and harmony. You say rob me , rape my wife and daughter. That is what you told criminals.
You put people in prison for life. That stops crime. That would stop shootings. You pussy liberals let these SOB's back out on the street in 6 weeks. You just told them they did something good by robbing a bank.
If you put a shooter in prison for life , can he shoot anyone else? If you put bank robbers in prison for life , can he rob another bank? Easy to figure and I don't have a PhD even.
Outlawing guns does not solve the problem. You are only hurting law abiding citizens and responsible fire arms owners by doing this.
Criminals that don't give a damn about the law and those that seek to harm others will find means of procuring weapons. And when they do, they will still do killing regardless if is on the street, a public parking lot, school, etc.
Concealed carry permits would only be able to be had by teachers in this case as you have to be a legal adult and fall within guidelines of your state's rules for concealed carry permits. Schools are off limits for concealed carry as well, pending certain states and laws as well depending where the license is issued. To go with that, you need to be 21 to buy a handgun.
So now your options are either have officers at schools and metal detectors at entrances that are enforced to limit the danger or you can ask lawmakers to make concealed carry legal on school grounds for individuals who are licensed and can possibly stop danger, but this also brings in individual accountability and responsibility in the event a shooting takes place in self defense and protecting others and collateral damages.
there are so many laws on the book about who can own guns, where you are allowed to carry, and using one as well as killing people. So why wasn't that person arrested for possessing a firearm on school grounds, why wasn't he arrested for carrying without a permit, why wasn't he arrested for having a concealed carry without a permit. That person violated so many laws to begin with to begin with, one more law wouldn't have made a difference to them. Guns are illegal on school grounds, it is illegal to shoot someone, it is illegal to kill someone, no matter what you use, firearm, car shovel... That said the reason that someone did not "whip" out their carry, is because they were following the law and did not have their carry on school grounds because they were following the law. Look at what happened in Waukesha, 6 people were killed at a Christmas parade by a driver in a SUV, and he injured many more. Now he was fleeing from a scene, yet there were laws on the books that it is illegal to kill or injure someone with a motor vehicle as well as hit and run which he also did. So would more laws on the books have prevented him from doing that? No.
Here's what I can tell you right now I don't know if you're from United States or not but you know we have a system of checks and balances here and up we have a representative government it's a republic it's not a democracy and thank God it is because no one can just vote our rights away. But the people player a very important role in the United States and we are like the 4th branch of government and a checking balance is if you try to take our rights away will just overthrow you. There's nothing in the Constitution about owning a firearm for hunting or sport it it's to defend ourselves and our guaranteed rights in the Bill of Rights. You can make guns illegal all you want but what you'll never do is you'll never get rid of all the guns off the street and then you'll just make the police the biggest gang are the only armed gang. Municipal Police are b******* they're hired by a municipality is basically hired thugs to collect Revenue very similar to a mafia. The sheriff on the other hand is an elected official and he points his deputies and he is the law and if you don't like him you vote him out but you can always rely on somebody else to come protect you if you want something done right you got to do it yourself. Mass shootings whatever those people are just unstable we have more guns then people in the United States everyone should be dead. People who want guns made illegal the reality of the ones that shouldn't have them because they would be the ones that would kill people because that's why they think that way. Those are the people who have in their head that would kill somebody if they had a gun so they think everybody's like that and it's not true
Outlawing firearms at this point would do nothing to solve the problem and would only make matters worse.
The gun industry employs tens of thousands of people. Most of which would lose their job if guns were outlawed.
In total the gun industry accounts for about 60 billion dollars of the US economy. Outlawing guns woud tank that.
There are 20% more guns in the US than there are people. It would be impossible to round them all up. Any attempt would just drive gun sales underground making them vastly more unpredictable.
The gun is not the problem. A gun is a tool. Tools can be wielded in different ways for different purposes. Guns are mostly outlawed in England, it didn't get rid of the violence, just shootings became stabbings.
The problem is our horrendous mental Healthcare system, poor educational support system and poor home environment.
Another significant contributor is the toxic environment created by social media, the internet, and mobile phones.
I don't own a gun myself because, among other reasons, I'm not the type of person who is afraid of her own shadow and thinks all the world's criminals are out to get me. If I find myself in a situation where someone with a gun and ill intentions is standing before me, I'll just talk them to death. They'll be running away from me in no time.
I was assaulted then 2 years later he found me somehow and attempted to break into my car after the protective order expired. The next day I was signed up to get my gun permit. And I made sure the police knew their wouldn’t be a 3rd time. So your statement although cute isn’t accurate.
@lovedejj_xo Well, it depends. On lots of things, like where you happen to live, and the people from your past. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never felt afraid to walk alone at night, and I've never had someone stalk me, so buying a gun for self-protection just wouldn't make much sense.
It doesn’t though people from my past? You lost me there. Yes chalk it on being lucky because that’s the only thing I can really say it is. I’ve never been afraid either but im not about to be naive. We have two different view points. I can’t fight off a grown ass man But I have something for him if he ever comes near me again.
@lovedejj_xo EXACTLY, women should be the last group of people to hate on guns because guns are the great equalizer and it stands between you getting raped/kidnapped/murdered/assaulted all things men DO NOT have to worry about...
Yes that is another sad tragedy, but for 99.7% of gun owners they are not causing the problem and will never loose their gun privilege's. Someone bent on causing harm will find a way to do it with or without a gun.
Always loved that logic. A criminal will always find a way to commit a crime... So why bother doing anything at all?
Clearly the status quo isn't improving things.
Never mind that every other country in the world has some form of gun control and restrictions in place and also have a much lower amount of gun related violence compared to the US... I suppose because it doesn't stop 100% of gun related crimes, there's no point, huh?
Could reduce gun crimes by 80-90%, but since there's still that 10-20%, there's no point?
Oh but then I suppose if they can't get a gun they would just get a knife. Well, even that would still reduce the chances of possible deaths and amount of victims compared to what firearms can do.
Oh well, no sense in getting into an argument since nothing will ever change in the US. I've already lost any sympathy or care for what happens in the US because you all bring it upon yourself and seem to enjoy it enough not to do anything about it.
Let’s remember that maybe there isn’t one simple solution. Maybe we need to fix PEOPLE. But PEOPLE don’t want to be fixed. We just want everyone ELSE to be fixed. Maybe that’s why things don’t change. A firearm is inherently harmless. It needs a human to do any harm.
Yeah, it was insane and the school could’ve prevent those deaths too. They were told by the student body that the future shooter was posting alarming content on social media but they did nothing, the school principal even sat down and talk to the shooter an hour before the shooting. The school and parents that allowed their kid around that gun need to be held accountable
As I'm a retired LEO and Security Specialist, are you SO FOOLISH as to believe the Shooter did not KNOW there ALREADY ARE EXISTING LAWS prohibiting carry in those circumstances?
Are you SO naïve as to believe such a person would OBEY such FURTHER legislation and would not seek to circumvent them?
Such lone shooters live in a personal fantasy reality, either to go out in blaze of glory (death by cop) that their name be remembered in infamy (Better to be notorious and vilified than to be IGNORED!) OR... that somehow they would be both nimble and cunning enough to escape the consequences of their homicides! ~
it worked in the UK as it was very specific ones and even then, most people never bothered owning one.
Before Dunblane, not many people bothered owning a pistol, in parts of the country including the likes of Dunblane people did not always lock their doors.
What needs to be done in the US is stop it being a political football, it needs to be a ‘sensible’ discussion that accepts banning won’t work, then work from there.
With 3D printing becoming more and more a thing, banning and detecting just gets harder.
Yeah most of the handguns here were miliary trophies or service pieces... my father's neighbour died over the summer and the police were called to collect his service issued pistol when it was found (his son has a farm and his licences allowed him to keep his dad's rifle and a couple of shotguns)
Yeah outlawing guns is totally gonna solve everything right?
Because if there’s one thing criminals are known for it’s their strict adherence to laws and rules.
the real reason that school shooting happened is because no one did any thing about it. People and the school knew that kid was unstable that the warning signs were there that he was posting alarming and disturbed content online and so much much more.
but no one did a thing.
Violence isn't a gun issue it’s a people issue. Banning guns isn’t gonna solve anything when the root cause isn’t being addressed.
People who are dead set on killing are going to do it no matter what with whatever is at their disposal.
if you wanna solve the issue of violence and killing then fix the root cause.. people. Otherwise it will never stop.
Well you have a problem with taking Weapons from people.
#1 we have nuclear weapons. The Geeny has been let out of the bottle and you can put him back.
#2 Then you have the question of who gets to carry or not.
#3 Every person on the Planet had a God given right Per The United States Constitution to defend his or herself from others and tyranny of The Government should they violate a person's Human and Constitution rights.
#4 if Police and soldiers are the only ones with weapons then you have a tyranny already in place.
#5 kinda Ironic isn't it that people with guns will take guns, and not give theirs up in the process?
In the USA there will be no way to outlaw guns, it just would not ever happen. We can't stop illegals, drugs or sex trafficking. Guns are already the 2nd most trafficked item as it is.
It would just turn all guns into illegal guns and there would still be a 100 million of them.
I can believe no one pulled a gun out because concealed carry does not mean do that all the time, it is a personal choice that many use for self defense, not necessarily in the defense of others.
They allow guns in schools here and there have never been a school shooting. Likely cause any potential shooter has no idea if every single employee is armed or not. The rule is, if its concealed its fine but if a gun is shown your in trouble.
I myself would not be alive today had I not been carrying and had to fire on a guy that was harming a woman. He stabbed and slashed me first though.
Well, I'm guessing no one whipped out their CC because it's a gun free zone... so kind of a silly question.
More laws aren't the answer, if someone really wants to hurt people they will find a way, if not a gun, a knife, or a bat or various other weapons of choice. It's a complex problem and I think a lot of it is rooted in mental health. I don't know what medications this kid was on but that's another contributor, violence in movies, games and music an kids getting exposed to this at an early age. Then as a gun owner myself, the irresponsibility of not keep the weapon secured and away from your kid.
As far as me being afraid about someone taking my guns away, not going to happen and we have the second amendment here for a reason.
Let’s ban law abiding citizens for the actions of criminals.
I’m not sure the criminals are going to follow this proposal and I can assure u that having a government with guns and the people with bandages isn’t going to work out either.
I am unaware of the situation u speak of but again, explain how the USA had trump and now has Biden in control, with so many raving lunatics With assault rifles n such vendettas against things.
-HOW COME ITS ALWAYS THE KIDS OR INNOCENT CIVILIANS BEING ATTACKED.
-HOW COME there's ALWAYS DODGY CIRCUMSTANCES INVOLVED THAT SEEM TO BE NON IMPORTANT.
AND HOW COME BRINGING UP THE SUBJECT OF ‘inside job’ CAUSES MORE CHAOS THAN THE SHOOTING ITSELF.
Open ur eyes to the smoke n mirrors n listen to those with nothing to gain.
R. I. P. Kidlets May the truth come forth n save us.
Legal concealed carry is not allowed on school property, so there would be no one there to stop a shooter. What consequences are you proposing? Even the death penalty has never been shown to be a deterrent.
"Can you believe no one with a conceal carry permit whipped out their gun?"
-Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol
"And please, if you want to try and make an educated response, don't show your lack of intelligence by using vulgarities."
-What's wrong buddy, can't handle a bad word? Just cause people use vulgar words doesn't mean that they are lacking in intelligence. Using "clean" words doesn't make you sound more intelligent.
-Don't be a sensitive clitoris, Shaun!
Also, you expect an "educated" response but yet you didn't do your research and educate yourself on how gun laws work before making this topic, funny.
You show your lack of intelligence by thinking taking guns away from law abiding people would somehow get criminals to give up their weapons. And people with a CCW can't bring their firearms onto school grounds. Of course you didn't know that since you are uneducated about the topic. Plus why not include a graph showing other countries with much higher homicide rates?
Unfortunately under MI law it is illegal for a person with a CCW to carry their firearm on school property excerpt from the reliant law MCL 28.425o below: "Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian" so that prevents any member of staff carrying a firearm even if they have a CCW.
From the information available the 15yo who carried out the shooting stole his fathers pistol that had been recently purchased.
When you make owning guns a crime, then only the criminals will have guns. How will we every defend ourselves? If you make something illegal, people who participate in illegal activities will still have access to it, regardless of it's illegal status.
Okay so laws are made to protect people then why shouldn’t there be gun laws created for perpetrators of gun violence to protect people? “Because law abiding citizens don’t break the law” wouldn’t make sense.
There is no barrier on the boarder. Any criminal who wants a gun can buy one from the cartels illegally and it will be untraceable.
The left wants the cartels to be able to bring in illegal guns, but not law abiding citizens to have guns.
It's almost like, they actually are trying to destroy America. They film kids getting shot and put it on the news to make the sheep afraid of guns while they let criminals go after violent felonies and welcome the cartel to sell guns and 8 year old sex slaves.
Then openly admit they don't understand the concept of a prison or why nobody had a gun on school property.
I mean seriously, if they aren't trolls... their brains have been eaten by worms and they're just walking around drooling over CNN.
You want to take about the success of banning guns, look want happened. The one place guns are banned kids get murdered with glee.
You want to talk about jails, look who's letting the violent felons out.
You want to talk about barriers to getting a gun? I could buy an illegal gun today, would take weeks to get a legal one.
So, maybe put some sort of Barrier between America and the cartels who profit off selling illegal guns, drugs, and child sex slaves?
But no, they want to solve it by banning guns for the whole country Instead of just at schools. Look what happened when DC tried it. The murder rate went through the roof.
I'm dead serious, nobody is this stupid. They are either beyond brainwashed or they actually want more people to die.
Yah, both my bros are teachers and I think it should be mandatory for educators to go through gun safety and be armed at all times. Those against it, well, probably should choose a different line of work.
Uh, no one was permitted to carry on campus there unless they had a resource officer or officers. No school allows a CCW holder to bring their firearm in.
Outlawing firearms would not have prevented this 15 year old from his killing spree- he could not legally possess a firearm.
Ummm... Dude, even with a CnC you can't carry on government property, including schools... So if they're a law abiding citizen, how can they whip out a gun they don't have? Two seconds of research, literally "Hey google, can you carry a gun in a school with a conceal and carry permit?" And then about two seconds of thinking and you'd realize, "Oh, they can't." Or at least that's the path of most logic.
It’s because America has a 235 year old constitution that everyone thinks is the only real way they can be free. Take away their right to bear arms and then they feel like they are in a dictatorship.
Actually the second amendment specifically calls for regulation. And if I saw a guy with an AK at my grocery store I'd scream "he's GOT A GUN!!" Dive for cover, run for the exit or assist others in their escape from an obviously disturbed person who's so paranoid they need an automatic weapon where litteraly babies in carts are the norm.
@CasaNorba Hitler Told everyone the press was "fake news" Liked to accuse the other side of what he was already doing himself Villinized the left as "communist " etc Said he would make Germany great again...
@Slartybartfast not so different than today ey? but I think you are also forgetting that he too was a medical tyrant that wanted to force everyone into medical procedures and again took everyone's guns away so no one would have anything to defend themselves with when he decided to initiate the holocaust
@Slartybartfast I've open carried my 9mm on my side plenty of times and it holds 19 rounds. If you did that where I'm from everyone would laugh their asses off at you. Talking about paranoid? If the site of an inanimate object scares you that much that you dive for cover just seeing it I think you're the paranoid one. Usually AK's and ARs are not carried in condition 1. So if its not in condition 1 then who tf cares? If you see them trying to load it in the store, obviously its time to rock and roll.
@TsumdereMatrix in the USA there are so many guns not registered it's impossible to get rid of them all if we tried. Plus I stopped 2 home invasions with a rifle. The sight alone sent them packing and one of them ended up dropping his spare mag and it was loaded. Y'all can preach what you want. I lived in the slums and only a dumb ass wouldn't pack where I grew up. You could go to my old neighborhood and buy guns with serial numbers scratched off. I don't know why you all think it's that hard. Someone wants a gun had enough they can get it if the have either half a brain or a little street smarts. Y'all are welcome to go shack up in Wilmington if you want and walk those streets at night unarmed. A bunch of whities will stick out like a sore thumb really quick and be targets.
Forget the gov they can't even keep the streets safe. How are they going to get the guns? They gonna bring back Eric Holder and Obama for another fast and furious? 😂👌
Removing the second amendment is a stupid idea, it's a recipe for the gov gunning down it's own citizens for any form of disobedience, just like it did before.
The right to own guns was put in the constitution for the sole purpose of defending against corrupt government rule. Any other uses for that amendment are secondary.
Do keep in mind that the US exists because the founders and their allies overthrew British rule with guns, so at the time, it was not publically shunned to distrust governments, nor should it be now.
But a lot of people are idiots, and think that giving a few people all of the power makes them safer...
How many world leaders have shown that to be false time and time again? A lot... Hitler, Stahlin, Khan, the list goes on and on. You give them absolute power, and they become absolutely corrupt.
And yet we like star wars, the avengers, and other movies, shows, and games about overthrowing corruption, and yet somehow, the lesson still does not sink in.
Governments are supposed to be for the people, not against them, but you take away each citizen's right to defend themselves, and that ideal won't last.
The fact is that governments are just people, and if your argument is that people misuse guns, then so do those people, and they can't ban themselves from owning guns, nor can they regulate themselves, and criminals, by definition, break laws, so any regulation only negatively impacts law abiding citizens.
People who are pro gun restriction/ban, do not understand that when a gun is aimed at you or someone you care about, and you are not sufficiently armed, you lose, and you/your loved ones die.
There is nothing wrong with defending yourself, and people seriously need to stop demonizing it in an effort to stop attacks, it makes no sense whatsoever and is a self defeating argument.
@Lost_in_the_Woods Those same folks tend to forget that "Arms" in the US Constitution involves all weapons and weapon platforms. Cousin Tim could own a warship, which could level chunks of a city.
I think assault rifles should be legal for anyone who hasn't been convinced of a crime or deamed mentally unsafe.
I think nukes should be illegal for everyone.
And warships should require a deep and detailed background check.
What you don't seem to consider is that our government uses our tax money to kill millions of people, level cities and commit war crimes on a regular basis. But... I'm pretty sure they could have got Kony in a day and he is still out there.
They admit to killing over 300,000 innocent unarmed civilians and over 500,000 soldiers defending their own home in the war on terror.
They recently got caught lieng about the innocent children they blew up with a drone.
So we can assume 300,000 is vastly under reported.
My Friend was a marine. He was scared for life. I said I wanted to join and all he said was they made him shoot unarmed children in their homes and "stack their bodies to be counted"
But you can bet they don't out that on CNN and they fudge the numbers by a huge margin.
You folks who are so worried about Cousin Tim must have some really seriously untrustworthy cousins. Because the people you want to have ALL the weapons openly admit to killing millions of innocent people. Let's talk about the flamethrowers they used in Vietnam. I know a guy who was a child, born over there and grew up watching that in fear for his life.
Personally, I trust your cousin Tim 1000 times more than the United States Federal government, and I haven't even met him. My cousin's name is Tyler. They go hunting all the time and he loves his kids more than most liberals do. They aren't even his, he married a single mom.
Y'all have your brains all twisted. If the guys who killed 2000 on 9/11 were terrorists, what do you call the guys who lit babies on fire in their beds with fucking flamethrowers on purpose and kept doing that shit for deccades with kill counts in the millions?
The United States Department of "Defense" it's labeled about as honestly as the "Voter integrity bill" championed by the same folks.
My dad used to work at a lab testing Nerve Agents for those fucks. You better believe they have a bio weapons division and you can say what you want about covid but they'll kill us all by accident if they don't do it on purpose.
So yeah. Let your cousin get that warship. If he pays for it tell him I'll come along as a mechanic so long as he promises to try to keep the collateral to less than 30,000 innocent civilians a year.
And we'll call it fucking progress. Y'all like that shit so, guess it would be a win win.
Because I was reading whole books in like the third grade. 🤷🏼♂️
I wrote a college level thesis about US and Iranian relations for the history chair in 10th grade, after being the first at my school to ever get a college credit in World History as a freshman.
It's okay though. I don't expect you to be able to keep up. I understand that from that far behind all you can see is a small blurry dot with a lot of words coming out of it. 😉
@Lost_in_the_Woods So you're going to impotently bullshit me with two long fucking posts? I know in your pathetic generation reading a whole book seemed like a big deal, but that was the standard in the 90's when you were 8, and it's down right pathetic to flex about AP classes in High school. Back to the Point, The Right to Bare Arms covered all weapons technology available.
@TsundereMatrix I appreciate and respect that Canada took the approach they did with firearms. I do believe that should they ban gun in the US it would probably take a few generations before owning or buying many guns stops being the norm. Sometimes we have to just do what's right and wait to reep benefits. As a result you may end up with more violence initially due to the anger at said change. But I do believe it's about culture. Just my 2 cents
@lilyanony1 in the meantime how many women have to be raped? How many people murdered in their homes? How many people robbed and beaten to within an inch of their lives? I offense but so many outsiders have zero clues as to how many illegal firearms are really out in these streets. If I didn't have a gun would I have been murdered in one of those home invasions I survived? Would my uncle have survived a carjacking? Hundreds of thousands of lives have been saved every year with the defensive use of a firearm. They are far more likely to be used for defense than offense. Here are the numbers. Let's see if you still feel that way knowing the actual truth. https://www. gunowners. org/sk0802htm/
I hope they do, because it's never been hard on the streets to score a 'throwaway' piece. If law abiding citizens were disarmed, it would make our robberies so much easier.
Exactly. Japan has less shootings because the culture is different. They don't need guns, so there aren't many people who insist on having them. That leads to the sillybartfags pushing laws against them uncontested so they have strict gun control.
The gun control didn't "work" there was less violence to begin with. That's why people don't feel the need to protect themselves.
No doubt that would be ideal, but it's not going to happen in America any time soon. Especially if criminals are allowed to kill whoever they want because nobody can protect themselves.
My irish family says "who needs a gun"
But then they come visit and are afraid to walk around in DC after dark.
And that's fine if you just jump on a plane and go home but... some people actually live there.
What works in Japan doesn't necessarily work in the US. Watch people evacuate from Hurricanes and you'll understand why. 🤣
North Korea has the strictist gun control in the world.
Their citizens aren't safer than ours.
The coralation between strict gun control and less crime is not cause and effect.
DC banned guns and the murder rate rose so fast they lifted the ban and haven't tried it since. Turns out the criminals didn't give their up, they just a lot braver knowing all the good guys did.
It's apples to oranges. You can't compare US gun laws and crime rates to Japan or North Korea. You can look at the real life effects of when it has been tried right here.
Mass shootings have only really started in the last 10-12 years since Obama took office and wanted stricter gun control.
Our laws used to be much more lax, the murder rate was much lower and mass shootings were practically unheard of.
Australia banned and confiscated most firearms and it only took them two decades to start building camps and locking people in them against their will and without due process. The gun control crowd has completely lost their argument and deserve to be ridiculed.
Sure, what a great idea to ban firearms. Because criminals are totally going to obey that law. The only thing that's going to do is stop innocent people from protecting themselves against armed criminals. Haven't you heard the stories about potential robberies that were stopped by armed civilians? The criminals are going to get their guns either way, we just have to protect ourselves.
So even though there were already several gun laws broken in this shooting... not to mention murder... we need MORE gun laws to add to the list of what was already ignored by this kid? How exactly would this help?
Darrell Brooks drove an SUV in to a crowd and killed more people, and yet, no calls from the left for more driving laws. No calls to lock up everyone's keys.
We need to more mental health, and mental health institutions in this country. Not more gun laws.
People who support the "gun control" have no common sense, so how can they talk about common sense laws? They are incapable of doing research, either. All they do is consume mainstream media and support anything that is framed as liberal, even when it's actually the opposite.
If one looks at facts and evidence, the ability of honest citizens to defend themselves and others makes society much safer.
Considering that gun rights have expanded vastly over the last 20 years in spite of any shootings, I don't think it's going to be a problem. Obviously the answer is to fix your people instead of complaining about guns, which don't shoot themselves. There's no reason to choose to have unhappy insane people without guns over happy nonviolent people with guns. Without guns people just drive through a parade instead.
News is saying no metal detectors or bag searches. Just bag size limits, as if that’s helpful. The kid that shot up my old high school did it with a home built gun. If people want to kill people they will find a way.
Democrats can’t even pass gun control with supermajorities and the executive branch. The only people in favor of gun control are elites and privileged suburbanites, which are a minority in America. There are also more firearms than ever before and less trust in the government.
As for your initial question, no one was conceal carrying because the gun control lobby passed laws outlawing legal carry resulting in our schools becoming targets for terrorists and psychopaths.
True point fs. I know a lot of more left leaning people that are big 2nd amendment supporters n own firearms. Banning firearms would basically result in a more violent prohibition
Maybe because if you’re intent on committing murder you, by definition, don’t really care what the law says. You’ll find a way to get a gun, regardless of if they’re legal. People manage to get their hands on ILLEGAL drugs. Imagine that.
The father of the suspect should have locked up the gun he purchased before the suspect got a hold of it. I do support gun laws and this country needs to realize the done gun laws are taken seriously the sooner kids in schools will be safe. How many victims will it take to understand this? Meanwhile gun supporters will just blame the suspect for mental illness and send thoughts and prayers like all the other school shooting instances and leaving no constructive solutions.
School shootings occur BECAUSE Democrats and other irrational Socialist simpletons have had schools made gun-free zones. Psychos know that nobody will return fire. Democrats’ real agenda is to disarm the population, to prevent effective resistance to the murderous Communist tyranny that is their wet dream. Try to take the guns. Watch what happens.
You mean like the last guy Kyle the Kenosha killer shot? I think the argument that a good guy with a gun can take down an active shooter ended with that farce of a trial.
When you can murder two unarmed people with the ABSURD argument of "self defense" ak vs unarmed AK vs skateboard? It's all over for a civil society and we are headed to mad max territory.
When cops stop having guns, maybe citizens wouldn't need them. No, that won't happen. Attempt to outlaw guns and the people with guns will kill all of you and burn down your homes the moment you advocated to use deadly force for the purpose of taking away their property, something they paid for.
Good luck with that. Americans will die gladly before ever giving up their guns.
The consequences don't matter. The showers are committing suicide by cop but feel so humiliated and angry that they want to take others with them. We need to make it much more difficult to obtain firearms, like a mandatory safety course taking at least 8 weeks.
Urine. As in 'Urine idiot'. Outlawing firearms generally is never going to happen - we have god-given rights to defend ourselves and a constitutional amendment that commands the government to protect that right. It's part of the foundation of this country.
If you don't want to defend yourself then don't, but don't expect everybody else to just take it lying down. And just quit with the leftist bleeding heart bullshit. GTFO
If a person isn't afraid of commiting murder, they aren't afraid of getting a gun illegally.
Schools are one of the highest risk places, because no one can legally have a gun there, so no one is there to stop the criminal (by shooting them before they can fire off a second shot, or if you're lucky, a first shot).
In regards to the update, stricter gun laws are not coming to the US. If anything, with the recent events, they will become less restrictive, which is good.
Make it like in czech republic. This country has liberal guns laws unlike many european countries but it is also not so liberal like in america. I dont think that you can defend yourself with any gun when you dont know how to use in a critical situation. Are automatic guns or whatever allowed in america? If yes, it is ridiculous. Why would you need war guns to defend yourself? Whatever i prefere tasers etc since they can't be used against you but other guns can be easily used against you.
Damn Skippy they can. Every girl I have gone out with or will go out with I try to get to expand their horizons. I can't be there to defeat her always so if she's packing heat she has a better chance of getting out unharmed. It makes me sleep and breathe easier.
Because the cartels bring AK47's across the totally open boarder and sell them along with a kilo of fentanyl and an 8 year old sex slave to anyone with $1000.
I'll make you a deal. You get a bolt action.22, I'll come at you with an AK47, high on meth with a child strapped to my chest as a meat shield.
If you survive, you can tell them why you think you should have been allowed to have a bigger gun for your safety.
Especially if you are talking about the commercially available hand held ones.
They might knock someone down if you know how to use them but they won't work twice.
You better be ready to get attacked and faster than whoever is attacking you because it won't help if they see it coming and it won't stop them from getting up and chasing you.
If they are stronger than you, a they have to do is grab your wrist and boom, now they are attacking you with a stun gun.
Police style ranged tasers are rare, expensive, hard to use effectively, you get one shot, and plenty of people have ripped the prongs out and got back up.
But, a 9mm is cheap, accurate, easy to use, comes with 6-10 shots and it only takes one hit to stop the guy from 40 feet away. Not to mention, as an added bonus it's a lot faster than stopping to dial 911. Cops will be on their way immediately.
Not to mention, if the bad guy has a gun and you pull out a taser that looks like a gun you're gonna die. He's not going to stop and ask "hey it's dark, is that a gun or a taser"
But you can get a bright pink gun that looks like a cell phone or a little tiny one that you can hide in your purse and still have 2 shots.
But really, that's not the part that keeps you safe. 9/10 criminals won't rob a house with a security system. Even a fake camera.
If dude sees you carrying a gun he probably won't attack you in the first place. But, we sat around zapping eachother with a stun gun for fun.
Lot of noise, but it really doesn't hurt that much. It's mostly just surprising.
I thought tasers are like electro guns that can't be used against. Go look it up. So you are saying me you need automatic gun to defend yourself, idiot? It is also difficult to prove thst you defend yourself. You will get death penalty. I would be careful when defending myself in america
That's why my 9 was strapped clearly on my thigh. I was on disability, there is no replacing that money. I saved for a long time for that thing. And on the measly change I got on disability, (god only knows how some people can get four grand a month but you're only allowed two grand in the bank before they cut you off)
I have heard stories how people end up in jails in america for defending themself. Now can you both stop spamming. You idiots waked me up at 4:00 am!!!
Again I am not anti gun. I did not say we should ban it. I was just confused. Anyway i hate the antigun attitude in european countries. In germany you need a certificate for owning fucking alarm guns. I read your posts now. You make sense but no need to be angry at me at 4:00am
You dont know wth this is? I realize again how ridiculous Europe is after seeing your question. In my opinion it is a toy gun but for Europe it is an actual gun. Alarm gun looks like and sounds like a real gun. You can't hurt anyone with it unless you press the gun against someone's body and shoot it. It is dangerous as knifes although knifes are more dangerous in my opinion. "A gun fired to signal an alarm or give notice of danger." - definition by google
Not allowed guns on school property. Also there's been like very very few instances where an active shooter is stopped by am armed member of public. It rarely if ever happens.
You don't listen to someone for your news source. You form your own opinions based on what you hear. You can even listen to someone biased and paid to spread lies and propaganda like any major news network but it doesn't mean you agree with everything they say.
Yea and id rather poop rainbows and sunshine just because you hope criminals dont have easy access to guns doesn’t mean anything. This kid is 15 how did he get the gun? Whoever owns the firearm should be culpable
School shootings are extremely rare in the grand scheme of firearm violence yet they get all the publicity meanwhile Chicago is a killing zone every weekend
@CreamySeed they get publicity because it's kids. Innocent kids. Gun crime is bad no matter what but of course any crime involving children will be talked about more.
Chicago kids get shot all the time it’s a war zone there. Gun control won't stop it like prohibition never stopped alcohol and the drug war never stopped drugs. All gun control measures do it keep guns out of law abiding citizens hands when they are used for home defense or concealed carry
This particular one was a kid. How did the kid have access to a gun? Gun control is having a safe with a passcode that only licenced gun owners have the code to and having the amo in a separate safe.
Anyone remember the Prohibition in the United States? Remember how nearly everyone was trying to find a way to get their hands on booze? Literally the same thing would happen if guns were banned...
Also please check out conceal carry laws in the United States... Your lack of knowledge is showing...
"At what point is it not simple common sense to outlaw firearms with strong enough consequences?" millions of people die of lung cancer a year, which makes the victims of school shooting appear like nothing, does that mean we should outlaw cigarettes?
Schools are a gun free zone. So you paint a red 🎯 for cowards with bad intentions. Also it's comical if you believe that outlawing guns will stop them. Did you learn nothing from prohibition or the war on drugs?
No one had one. It's a school, a supposed "gun free zone", unless you don't care about the law.
Also, the shooter warned everyone, but the FBI was too busy covering for hunter, disappearing maxwell's jury, and plotting some false flags with 2/3rd of fed participation.
Yeah man that'd not gonna happen in a place in a gun free zone i blame bullying for making kids snap and school staff for not acting on bullying. Bullying puts everyone in danger in todays world. Back in my day it wasn't as bad. Today kids have social media and the whole world can laugh at you. You curve school bullying you curve crazy kids from snapping & school shootings.
@supercutebutt You're the one who has me blocked lol you clearly take me serious so serious you hide from me cause you hate the fact i know your a MAN.
@Juxtapose yeah its an angry man thats super sjw and tries passing off as a chick but types like a feminine dude and tried to get at me once i said prove ur a girl and it instead blocked me but everytime i post they always wanna see what i said like some obsession and safety net.
@supercutebutt Everything about you is SuS and your mad I'm only into strictly women so buzz off & go back to posting about accepting a "Trans-Jesus" because you want everyone to accept you & stop stalking me ill never want you take the rejection.
The reason the school shooting was not stopped by someone carrying a legal firearm, is because they are not permitted on school campus. Again only law abiding citizens obey the law, no matter what laws you have banning firearms, only law abiding citizens will obey them, no law would stop school shootings.
When's the last mass shooting on a gun shop or police station? They tend to happen in places where you are not supposed to carry. Just because you have ccw doesn't mean you can draw it on a shooter legally. In some states you have a duty to retreat first
Because its not common sense to violate people's fundamental constitutional rights. Furthermore it is common fucking sense that no one is whipping out their gun IN A FUCKING SCHOOL. Posts like this are a good example of why democracy is the worst form of government, its the rule of the very stupid.
Gun free zones to a criminals may as well be translated to target rich environment.
How about restoring our rights instead of giving more power to fascists. And maybe the public school system needs to be investigated as well.
Your solution is no different than any other dictator in history. Hitler did it, Stalin did it, Castro did it, Mao Zedong did it, and now you want to do it.
Home > Trending & News > Questions > Can you believe no one with a conceal carry permit whipped out their gun? At what point is it not simple common sense to outlaw firearms?
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