US Military exonerates itself for murdering civilians in Syria. Is it only bad when Russia does it?

[Redhead999]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61492436.amp

Its only bad when Russia does it

No US politicians & Generals should be tried for war crimes

[Soteris]

Oh yes. You can definitely accuse American generals and even presidents of being war criminals. Problem is that we are talking about the Russian atrocities here. While what USA did is bad, what Russia does is taking that as a challenge and upping the severity by orders of magnitude. Not only is what Russia is doing on a bigger scale but also more deliberate, as in doing war crimes is a deliberate goal of their military campaign making it not just a limited problem in their military but a systematic problem inherent to their own organization and command structure.

They are only the same because we do not feel the need to invent a worse category above that.

[msc545]

Right, you really should tell the Vietnamese or the Native Americans or the Iraqis or the Afghans about your theory that "what the Russians did is worse". Total bullshit.

[Soteris]

@msc545 Easy. What Russia is doing right now is organized genocide. They are attempting to eliminate the culture of "Ukraine" be it leveling the physical existence of the country into the dirt, taking their children and indoctrinate them as "Russians" or just taking the easy option and murdering them all.

The only thing that USA has done that even approaches this would be the ethnic cleansing of the Native Americans. But again, that is bad how USA went after all those thousands upon thousands of Native Americans... Quick quiz: How many people live in Ukraine and identify as Ukrainian? 44 million or there abouts.

Its on a different level bro, deal with it.

[msc545]

So if your war crimes are "well organized" that makes them worse. I think not.

[Soteris]

@msc545 Actually it does. It shows an intent that does not exist if a small group of your military decides to do it by themselves which means the government is more responsible for the actions and also means that the reason for the whole operation therefore becomes to genocide rather than something that spontaneously happens as an afterthought.

There is also a question of scale. Part of what made the nazis genocide of Jews so horrible is that through their "well organized" nature they could kill so many.

[msc545]

That is simply your opinion which you are entitled to of course. I disagree.

[Redhead999]

The Russian military is basically made up of conscripts with 3 months of training, it has old equipment and small numbers of modern equipment and Russia has an economy the size of Spains by comparison the US is a military state that spends more on its military than most of the world put together with 900 foreign military bases in like 40 countries with nearly 1 million under arms another 900 reserve personel and probably another 4-5 military vetreans capable of serving again its huge. The US marine corps has an equipment inventory larger than the entire British military thats tanks, aircraft, helicopters, apcs.
Any country independent soverign nation that does not tow the line and become a client state like Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Turkey, yemen, sudan, Russia, Ukraine and allow US corporations to exploit them a regime change is organised, or sanctions or a client state is sent to invade or a civil war started, their enemies funded or their economy attacked.
By the end of the Ukraine war Russia will no longer be a regional power and might even end up a US client state but certainly countries it has influence over will either be US client States or Chinese client states.
https://youtu.be/YV4oYkIeGJc

[msc545]

This is about war crimes. Your response is off-topic.

[Soteris]

@msc545 On the contrary I am being fairly objective. What USA did towards the Native Americans are fairly similar, if a bit milder than what Russia is doing/planning to do against Ukraine. Only difference is that there is a whole lot more Ukrainians to genocide than there was Native Americans.

As such based purely on the objective number the Russians is worse.

[msc545]

death is death. Basing it on numbers is silly. Anything greater than 0 is a crime if done deliberately.

[Soteris]

@msc545 As the saying goes, the death of one is a tragedy.. but the death of millions is a good start.

Point is, the cost of a life is hard if even possible to quantify but that does not mean that you can't compare since everyones lives is equally priceless then 2 dead is still worse than 1. What Russia is doing/planning to do is objectively worse than what USA has done. This is an objective truth and it has meaningful consequences that goes beyond simply trying to equate them as if they are doing the same thing.. which I have continuously disproved.

[msc545]

How do you know what Russia is planning or doing?

[Soteris]

@msc545 ... I mean they are doing it.. and their goal is very obvious.. and they have openly come out and said it.. and its not even the first time they have tried to erase the very identity of Ukraine through every means they can including killing as many of them as they can get away with.

Putting aside how this is literally the only way for them to win the war, their primary reason for starting the war in the first place, the obvious reaction to losing the war and how losers tends to lash out when cornered. It is just a continuation of how Russia operates. Removing Ukraine is of vital national importance to the point where their very existence is on the line.

[DaveJord]

You obviously lack perspective. But with that said, Trump surrendered the US position in Syria, which emboldened Russia in the Ukraine... and it was a complete betrayal to the Kurdish fighters who were fighting for their own freedom and independence. So we are liars and cheats... but nothing close to what the Russians did to Aleppo.

[Redhead999]

The US has betrayed the Kurds before in Iraq, plus Turkey a country that has committed genocide against the kurds and still is in Syria and Turkey is a staunch NATO ally.
The US had no position in Syria when trump pulled out, the US failed in Syria when Assad choose Russia over the US and as a result the US tried to arrange a coup and civil war. The Syrian revels the US armed, trained and funded burnt them and joined ISIS instead. Russia checked the US in Syria by deploying troops and arming Assad. The US lost the proxy war in Syria before Trump was ever President.
Russia was already emboldened before trump with invasions of Ukraine, Georgia and Chechnya. The US has influenced Ukraine elections, foreign, economic and domestic policy for years to undermine the Russian economic policy and that was largely what the Syrian conflict was about also. The US wants to be the main supplier of oil/gas to Europe, they don't want closer economic ties between the EU and Russia and the want NATO countries in Europe to beef up their military spending. Trump has actually said exactly this himself as president and this is what is set to happen.
Russia has made a mistake in Ukraine.

[DaveJord]

Actually you could not be more wrong, I was a US Solider in Syria... and we had a substile position in Syria. But most American did not understand why we were there or how Trump betrayed the Syrians, emboldened the Russia's and complete screwed the Ukrainians.

The military objective in Syria was to defeat ISIS which we did very resoundingly. Then we were blocking Syria/Russia in the Manbij pocket from linking up with Turkey. So when the US pulled out two weeks later Russia and Turkey announced a oil pipe line from Syria through Turkey. This would allow Russia to connect Syria via the pipe line to the black sea... thereby bypassing US/NATO oil embargos on Syria/Russian oil shipments through he Mediterranean. Which is why Russia took the Crimea to protect its major sea port on the Black Sea and why it wants Ukraine so they can pipe oil all across Eastern Europe. Which all fine and good if Russia wanted to act like a honest broker... but reality is that Putin just wants to take us back to the days of the Iron Curtain and that is not going to fly with the Western Powers.

So your not really on target with your criticism here, you watch too much fake new or your trolling out false propaganda. But that's the beauty of living in a free courtly that protects personal liberties and rights... you don't have to know a dang thing about what your talking about in order to have an opinion and spread it with out fear of persecution. So thank you United States for giving people a voice in world, even when its false and misguided.

I never pegged you Red as a comrade loving Russian internet Troll. But none the less god bless you for trying.

[Redhead999]

The US military wasn't in Syria at the start 2011. What you are describing when you were there was the US military trying to clean up the mess the US government created in Syria when it empowered ISIS with operation Timber Sycamore which for four years from 2012 £1 billion worth of weapons, training and funding was given to the free Syrian army which was made up of many groups many affiliated with Al Queda, affiliates like ISIS who at the time was based in Iraq took control of the al queda leadership and all its affiliates including those in Syria armed and trained by the US government.
In 2009, according to WikiLeaks, soon after Bashar Assad rejected the Qatar pipeline, the CIA began funding opposition groups in Syria.
None of this is fact news, it's all out there.
Trump did say way back that European countries should spend more on nato, shouldn't be buying their oil/gas from Russia etc. Its just like a recent gaff Biden made about Iran, that's a Freudian slip. After 9/11 there was a list of countries the US was going to bring down one was Iraq, another was Libya, another was Syria, another is yemen, another was Egypt and the last one standing is Iran.

[DaveJord]

See you are talking about things you do not know anything about... lol
www.inherentresolve.mil

Wiki Leaks really, the CIA... what was the KGB doing during the same time period. . Are you British? Well I worked with the Brits in Syria as well.

Sure mistakes where made by the United States... but your not really comprehend all that was going on or the complexities of it. It would all of my 20 years of expertise to explain it and you would still fail to understand all the dynamics of it due to your simplistic one-sided perspective based upon loosely tied together erroneous facts. It was not like we randomly selected Syria there were global political and economic influences at play on all sides.

Iran, who is linked to Russia, for one was trying to create land corridor through Iraq to connect with Syria and then move oil to the Black Sea. ISIS was not some random grass roots thing that happened. Turkey wanted the pipeline for economic reasons... I am not sure you even comprehend the Sunni vs Shia dynamic, then the Pro- Russians Syrian Regime, and of course you have no way of knowing what was being provided to the Syrians and moving into Iraq to ISIS. There is so much you are not aware of, or accounting for.

Amazing how after we pulled out of Syria that Iran went quiet, North Korea stopped launching missiles, and Turkey got paid off by the Russians. What deal do you think Trump made with these people? He set us back years, and now Ukraine is being invaded... please stop trying to sound like you understand or comprehend the power plays that went on and are going on. And do not put it on the military guys... it is all political. Military did our job and we did it very well. We are just victims of our own successes as we see in the Ukraine with the Russian shit show of a military operation... the US military is seriously that much better at everything we do militarily.

[Redhead999]

The kgb doesn't exist. I doubt the CIA's equivalent today in Russia doesn't have a billion dollars to fund terrorists.
Iran already has a pipeline into Turkey its neighbour who has access to the black sea. With talks of more through Georgia and Pakistan. Iran has links to Russia but these days are turning more to China.
Iran does not want another US Arab client state on their boarder like Saudi Arabia or Iraq so naturally its involved in Syria on the side of Assad.
Turkey is still in Syria fighting the Kurt's and other rebels on their boarder. The Turks were happy with the Russians because they took down Assad and brought stability to their boarder the opposite of what the US was doing.
As for what equipment isis got well all the ex Libyan weaponry, all the NATO equipment they had, all the convoys of Toyota hiluxs they had need I go on. Whenever Trump ended operation Timber Sycamore ISIS fell apart, no more money or guns.
As for Trump, he didn't really make any deal as no US president has any real power. These are 10-30 year plans. From Bush Sr to Biden they are all singing off the same hym sheet.
What was happening in Ukraine was going to happen after Russia interfered with us economic policy and directly challenged them on the global stage in protecting their ally Assad in Syria.

[Redhead999]

The Russian military is basically made up of conscripts with 3 months of training, it has old equipment and small numbers of modern equipment and Russia has an economy the size of Spains by comparison the US is a military state that spends more on its military than most of the world put together with 900 foreign military bases in like 40 countries with nearly 1 million under arms another 900 reserve personel and probably another 4-5 military vetreans capable of serving again its huge. The US marine corps has an equipment inventory larger than the entire British military thats tanks, aircraft, helicopters, apcs.
Any country independent soverign nation that does not tow the line and become a client state like Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Turkey, yemen, sudan, Russia, Ukraine and allow US corporations to exploit them a regime change is organised, or sanctions or a client state is sent to invade or a civil war started, their enemies funded or their economy attacked.
By the end of the Ukraine war Russia will no longer be a regional power and might even end up a US client state but certainly countries it has influence over will either be US client States or Chinese client states.
https://youtu.be/YV4oYkIeGJc

[DaveJord]

Well. whatever Red, I think you got your mind made up... somethings you just can't learn from news articsl.

[Redhead999]

Exactly. You have to look past the American propaganda machine. Watch what happens in the next few years as a consequence of Ukraine and see how it great benefits American intrests more than anyone. Watch out for central asia, its an important region that the US can't access except through the black and caspian seas.

[DaveJord]

I understand your golnsl. perceptive... but honestly I don't agree. It's all do conspiracy theory'ish to me. Bottom line US good, Russia bad. Everything use is a matter of what you want to believe. If play nice with world then the US leave you alone, cause problems and US will smack your ass. Russia is an antagonist, you can try lump US general's and Presidents into the same basket as Putin and his oligarchs... but its apples and oranges. Trying say what the US has done is worse that anything the Russian have done or would do is naive, but your not naive Red... so your either flat wrong, a Russia loving commie, or misguided. But you sound more like a paranoid smart person, that might go active shooter... lol

[Seinna]

Nobody gives a damn abotu civilians anywhere. The only reason why we hear about Ukraine is because it's a wild west state where American and israel criminals conduct their businesses. That's what they care about, not civilians.

[jshm2]

They did the same in Iraq and Afghanistan as well. Robert Bales wasn't the only one.

[Кураж]

It's collateral damage vs deliberate genocide.
I'm not sure what's so hard for your anti west shills to understand.

[Redhead999]

Only collateral damage is buildings not civilian lives. Its PR spin.

[msc545]

Many US politicians have ordered activities that constitute war crimes. None of them will ever be tried.

[slatyb]

If US military personnel deliberately target civilians, then they have committed a war crime.

[Bklynbadboy12]

Wow I'm tired of everybody pointing the finger at us we should just mind our business and let all these other countries handle that own business stop help the world cause nobody appreciates it

[Redhead999]

Nobody appreciates getting bombed ☹️

[Bklynbadboy12]

Nobody appreciates the protection we give them either

[Anonymous]

Dude just say you hate America. Or chant allah akbar or whatever the fuck you people do.

🇺🇸☝🏻💪🏻

[Redhead999]

Does the truth offend you?

[Fuentes]

I see war as war and people die