Why do guys have to initiate everything with girls? why can't there be more give and take?

Question

Why do guys have to initiative everything with girls? It's like this, if a guy and a girl want to start talking to each other, the guy starts the talking, the guy starts the conversation and keeps it going. Who starts the conversation first? the guy does. Who says I like you first? the guy does. Who asks who out first? the guy does. Who calls/texts who first? the guy does. Who picks the place to go out? the guy does. Who says I love you first? the guy does. Who has the place for sex? the guy does.

jdcpa · Accepted Answer

I'm confused what exactly you're complaining about.

Are you frustrated because you have to make all this effort? Are you just making a general observation of the inequality that's involved in the formation of a relationship between a man and woman? Or are you making a general observation about the relative effort a man has to put into creating a new relationship and the relative benefits he receives?

Let's get the last two out of the way, because they're rather short.

Men & women are both people. They have the same desires and needs.

Needs: safety, security, comfort, survival (and on that note; reproduction, or else their genes are permenantly filtered out of existance)

Desires: sex, status (feel good about ourselves relative to others), love

I'm not going to say anything anti-21st-century here, so let's assume that the man is no longer expected the be the provider for a dependent women. Let's assume that they are both able to support themselves, are independent, and don't look at one an other as a means of being able to better finance the kind of lifestyle they want for themselves (ie. K-fed & Anna Nicole)

With that assumption in mind, does a man satisfy more desires and needs of a woman, than a woman satisfies of a man? Is the benefit of entering into a relationship somehow more for one sex than the other? Does the effort that sex have to put into forming a new relationship reflect the benefit they receive? Is that what bothers you? Are you happy you got your answer in the open now? Shall we move on?

Guys have testosterone. I'm done being PC; it makes us stronger and smarter. (If you feel like debating, show me your college statistics and I'll kindly direct you to a history book or nobel prize list). We desire less, and are better able to provide what we need, not just for ourselves, but for our families, and even have extra to spare for society! We're a pretty efficient and productive creature. Women don't have that luxury. The playing field, by nature, is unfair.

What do you want women to do? To bend over and beg you? To tell you "please! I'm afraid of being alone and lonely, I want to feel pretty, and wanted, I need to feel safe, I want someone to take care of me, I need your hard throbbing manhood inside me, I want someone to take me shopping and pamper me like a princess, and listen to me, and a million other things; which are so much more than what you want from me or from what I could ever give you. I surrender! you win! I submit to your dominance. I'm yours"

If you were a woman, you'd think the same thing "like hell I'd say that". So instead, to compensate, and increase what little value you have to men, you make yourself less easily available! You demand that men work to have you, even if you'd benefit more, because it "LEVELS THE PLAYING FIELD" and "NOBODY WANTS TO FEEL POWERLESS!"

So give her the courtesy of making her feel you're "working & making an effort" to have her. It's lets her feel special.

bobair · Accepted Answer

In regards to your latest updates (start a new thread, this one's getting muddy)

"Update: Girls have it so much easier because they always or usually have the final say, the final approval or final denial before taking anything further sexually or socially, all girls have to do is say Yes or No. Girls have all the sexual and social power when it comes to dating and relationships."

Of course it's up to her whether or not she's going to have sex with you, but I'm unsure why you think that gives her any more power than you?

I can say no to sex just as she can.

As a man I have just as much power to be selective about the type of women I chooseto talk to, who I choose to sleep with, etc.

The reason you're complaining is because you're likely living a life of low value where you think women are only valued for the sex they can offer, and that you can only provide her value through money, social status or attention.

The truth is that those men who get any girl they want are men who see themselves as powerful valuable guys, who assume the status they display. They definitely don't whine about women, or complain that "women have all the power."

Take a moment and try to understand the importance of this mindset. Think of yourself as a powerful sexy man who women want to be with and you'll start to see the world very differently.

Good luck!

~ Robby

My Blog ( link )

Tamikaze · Accepted Answer

It's the natural order of things, for a very good reason, but not quite what you make it out to be.

In general, guys approach a lot of women initially out of sexual attraction and could be very happy to enjoy sex with a woman and nothing else, no risk of falling in love.

In general, women are looking for a relationship. In fact, I would love it if I could be the one to start up the dating process and everything else. But, the reality is that if I do I am looking at you as a potential boyfriend, no sex would happen until I knew you were the one and we were in a relationship, and, this would all happen really fast. Like in a few weeks, maybe a month I would date you a lot, talk on the phone a lot and makeup my mind and we would be in a relationship. But most guys are highly uncomfortable with that and I get that. You need more time to process your feelings and decide if you really want a relationship. That is why you end up being the one to queu each stage of dating and a relationship, at least in an official way.

On to why you haven't quite captured the essence of what is really happening. Men and women alike seem to want to focus only on direct communication in relationships and negate all the indirect communication. I understand, it can be hard to tell the difference when someone does something, as to whether they are just trying to be friendly or they are telling you that they really like you and want to move to the next stage. But, I don't know, when I like a guy there just isn't much confusion on how I feel. I don't have to say "I love you", it is in my eyes, the way I act around my man, how I treat him and the fact that I want to see him at any point in time he asks to get together.

Luckily I do think there is also give and take in this. I have been the one to say "I love you first". I have no problem starting up a conversation either. I do leave the asking out on a date part up to the guy. I also try to let them set the pace on contact in the beginning so I don't overwhelm them and push them away. It has helped me to learn the difference in how much contact most guys tend to want initially and slow down what I would probably normally want. Oh, and the place for sex, well maybe guys put more effort into making sure they have a place to have sex considering you hope to have it more so than you hope to have a girlfriend.

QueenKatie · Accepted Answer

I agree with you! I think it's terrible that in the twenty-first century, some women still don't feel able to ask a guy out for fear of rejection or being called 'immodest'. The model seems to be that girls are supposed to 'wait on the shelf to be picked by guys' - essentially a very passive role, which places all the important choices in the dating game out of their control. Look at how many girls there are on this website agonizing over 'whether he likes me' and asking 'why doesn't he say something?' It's really depressing.

At base, there's also an assumption behind the inequality that men are only interested in sex, while women want relationships. There's still a view that the 'good girl' (i.e. the girl who wants to get married) must sit back, shyly, and wait, virginally, for Prince Charming. Meanwhile the aforementioned Prince Charming can sow his oats wherever he pleases with 'bad girls' (who are confident in bed, but not relationship-worthy). It's unbelievably chauvenistic, like something out of the medieval period! And it couldn't be more untrue. There are tons of guys out there who are desperate for companionship, and tons of women who just adore sex.

I think it's a lot more erotically interesting if the dating game is more equal, because women no longer have to wait around to be noticed, but can get out there and make empowered choices for themselves about whom they want to date, and why they want to date them. I also think that there is a big connection between having the courage to initiate things with a guy, and being confident in bed!

The best thing that guys like you can do is to help sledgehammer those reactionary sexual ideas that lie behind the inequalities that at the beginning of a relationship. Speak up! Be vocal about how much you like and value women who are independent, women with careers who make their own money, who know their own minds, and who aren't dependent on men! Get out there and help to level the playing field, so women get an equal deal not just in relationships, but in sports clubs, offices and boardrooms. Don't put up with a situation where women put their careers aside for childcare and chores, while men continue earning cash and kudos. Once we have equality in the home and at work, maybe we'll get equality in dating too.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

Of course guys have to do all the work on one-night stands and casual sex.  Girls don't want that.  They want a guy who will be their boyfriend, not a hookup.  They only go along with that because in the back of their mind they think it will lead to something more.  So, if you want to hit it and quit it, be prepared to work.  I personally wouldn't want to have sex with some passive guy who felt so uncomfortable saying hello.  It would make me wonder how uninvolved you would be in the bedroom.  Good luck.

bobair · Answer

Read David Deida books and you'll understand the deep genetic drives we have as men and women. ( link )

You're a MAN for God's sakes... why are you trying to force women to risk embarrassment, public rejection, and social upset!? Women already have enough on their plates... worrying about how they look, how people perceive them, physical dangers of dating, etc.

The reality is that the rejection we get from a "I don't give my number to strangers" is harmless.

Perhaps complaining that you're too insecure to tell a woman she's beautiful isn't the right approach?

Instead take action, learn how to build your confidence, forget about your useless ego, and start surprising the beautiful women who come into your life by being MASCULINE, proud, and unashamed of your direct approach.

~ Robby

Anonymous · Answer

I wish it was easier to meet a guy and enter a relationship. It is easier to meet a guy if you don't mind being their one night stand or booty call. But most guys are very uncomfortable to nicely tell you that they don't see you as relationship material, so instead they just make you feel crummy and call you things like clingy or just don't respond to your messages and ignore you. Or they make jokes about girls behind their backs if they think the girl is beneath them.

Most guys just are not like you at all. You and your friends are unusual. Again I think a lot of guys in theory joke about wanting a girl to jump their bones, but in reality they do not like girls trying to put the relationship moves on them.

MrNameless · Answer

Because too many women out there are morons and still stick to old tradition of "waiting" for guys to ask them out. The men who support this old tradition are idiots too.

Listen... If you like a girl, by all means.. make a move on her--not because of stupid old stereotypical washed out gender traditions.. But because you don't want to risk losing a potentially good girl friend.

But if you keep on making more moves than her, and she doesn't reciprocate much.. Forget about her and move on. If you like her still.. wait for her to come crawling back, or get to know another woman.

Anonymous · Answer

Love is not partnership. At least in my opinion. Confessing demands courage, guts, nerve… you name it. Courageous woman is certainly appealing, but courageous man just blows my mind! I want him to blow my mind, that is why. In addition, in a relationship, if a guy has to initiate, a girl has her own 'duties', she has to manage it so her man is happy and feels complete. All I demand is to show me he likes me, I will do the rest for him. In other words, we don’t have the same 'tasks' in a relationship, I don’t want to do guy's job and I will not let him do mine.

vmw2008 · Answer

It's because experience has taught girls that if we chase the guys, we lower our value in a guys eyes. We never see a guy tripping over himself, picturing a marriage with a girl that's calling him and asking him out. It's always the girl he had to chase to get. We hear you guys complain about those annoying, easy, "ho's" that call too much, show our feelings too much, act too desperate. So we learned. Girls that let the guy chase get placed at a higher value. Just the way it is. Girls are turned on when a guy chases. Guys are turned off when a girl does.

InquisitiveMale · Answer

Its a woman’s virtues that are the problem. Their rights have come a long way but their virtues remain much the same.

All those statements you made about what a guy does and a girl doesn’t are vastly untrue. Aside from the initial introduction and asking for a date it is pretty much 50/50.

MY opinion, not yours.

Cheers.

xxsocalgrlxx · Answer

we are scared of rejection... but I have said I love you first, I have texted first, and I have said I like you first...but it really all depends on the female... because I know what doesn't kill me makes me stronger... and I look at it as its their loose not mine!  the other stuff maybe true.. I don't bring a guy to my compound unless he for sure is the one...

armyant · Answer

That's just how it works. Men are attracted to some behaviors in women and women are attracted to some behaviors in men. This is one of them.

Don't think women are happy with their role in male-female interactions either. Hell, this site is full of complaints about how relationships are so unfair for women and society this and society that. You're part of society. If you don't agree with it you can go play by your own rules, but I imagine the company might be dull.

frustratedchump06 · Answer

It is tradition, and since our culture and society has made that the status quo, why girls women risk rejection when they can let all the guys come to them? They can get away with doing nothing, so of course they are going to get away with it"

"Why should girls take it upon themselves to approach guys and ask them out, start a conversation when siting back, relaxing and waiting for the date and right guy puts them in a position of absolute power?"

lala-b · Answer

girls are just scared of rejection

HateBeingSingleAspie · Answer

life was never meant to be fair

ihatetakingcharge · Answer

easier to do nothing than to do something

Why do guys have to initiate everything with girls? why can't there be more give and take?

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