What I Think About Guys Paying for Dates

[ManOnFire]

This is a pretty heavily discussed topic on GaG, and while I generally don’t like wasting my time on these kinds of arguments and just try to tune them out - or any of the over-discussed topics here - I’m gonna spend some time on this one. Just once. And I do understand both sides of guys and girls on the issue.

Should guys pay?...

For me as a guy the idea of paying for a date does not bother me. That’s just what I think. If you have the money and can do it, why not? Even if she does have money and her own career or whatever, there’s still nothing wrong with showing a gentlemanly gesture of paying for a date, especially your first one. In fact you may want to do it the most with your first date.

It’s simply a gesture that says you’re interested in this girl and you really like her and want to treat her regardless of if she has more money than you or as much as you do. Forget about that, it's about the fact that you're showing how you like her. It has nothing to do with whether you can impress her with your wallet or not. It’s a sign that you like her enough to want to spend a little on her. The way I see it: if you’re going to have a problem with paying for your girl, then you’re either not really mature enough for a date yet, or you know you can’t really afford that kind of thing. And if you can’t afford it, that’s okay, there’s nothing wrong with that. Just do something else you both can enjoy. There really is no need to overcomplicate it.

Females who want to be treated too highly…

However, I can understand the guys who don’t like the idea of having to pay for a girl who has very expensive tastes and really just wants a guy to pay so she can show it off or get a boost for her ego. Those are definitely a turn off, and you don't have to date them. If a girl you're with wants you to start buying shit for her like fancy handbags, makeup, or going to really high-end restaurants, cut her off quick. It'll never really be about a serious relationship for her, it will almost always be about a thrill for her that she gets to use you as a financial taxi. Not fun at all. And there are definitely a lot of women out there like that, but it doesn't mean you have to date them or settle for them.

There's nothing wrong with you as a guy laying down the law and letting a girl know that you're not about to pay for everything she wants. She doesn't have to like it, and she can be angry, and if she is then she obviously is not the girl for you and you can do better.

Women pitching in...

I don't mind if a girl wants to pay for her part of a date, but I do mind if she wants to pay all of it. I'm not like some of these New Age guys going around talking about "equality" and feeling okay with a woman paying for him. That's really not cool to me. I maintain traditional values about men and women, especially with relationships, so for a woman to want to pay for us going out isn't going to be too acceptable to me.

Now if it's my birthday or some special occasion that really does revolve around me - maybe I got a new job, maybe I was successful in some area and she wants to celebrate - that's okay, I don't mind that. That would be normal in any situation for the other person who loves you or likes you to want to treat you. And I wouldn't even mind it if she did insist on paying for a date once in a big blue moon, but overall I don't want or expect a woman to have to do that, regardless of how much money she does have. If she really is okay with paying half, that's okay. I won't make an issue out of it.

Females who don't think guys should have to pay...

It seems to me that a lot of the females who are all in favor of girls paying for dates or at least part of it, and firmly supporting guys in how they shouldn't have to pay, are really in this mindset only because doing so would show financial might on their part as a woman. Females today know they can make their own money and have big jobs and all that, so they do want to try to prove that to men or impress us with it, and I really don't care. How much money you have as a woman doesn't change my mind about how I may see you as a woman or a person with values.

Just cuz you may have a lot of money - or even more than me - doesn't impress me or make me see you as an important person you think I should desire. It doesn't work that way. I'm more concerned about what you can offer me as a woman in a relationship, what kind of character, personality, and values you have. So showing me that you have money by wanting to pay on a date is irrelevant to me.

It's simply a gentlemanly thing to do...

A hell of a lot of guys here on GaG disagree with me on this subject, and that's really okay, I'm no stranger to disagreement. But take some time to think about what I'm saying. I'm not saying you as a guy are necessarily obligated to serve some girl. I'm saying that when you really like a girl, or you think you really love her, you feel like you want to do all kinds of things for her. I know I do. When I really like a woman and have feelings for her, I always want to make her feel special. I want to make something artistic for her like my swans or teddy bears or lotuses and watch her face light up when she sees it. I want to do things she would enjoy or that make her smile or feel good, things that she appreciates. And if she can't appreciate it, then I don't bother and I don't stay interested.

It has nothing to do with wanting to impress her or giving her something just to get something back. It's about the fact that you like her enough to show her that. It's about making her feel special. If a girl wanted to give you a blowjob out of the blue one day, didn't she want to because she likes you? You didn't ask, but she wanted to because she wanted to treat you. She didn't put up an argument about how you should eat her out too just because she's blowing you. While there are women like that, some others are sincere about giving head. So in the same way, paying for a date is about a sincere feeling that you like this girl and want to do something special for her.

To me it really is a non-issue. Something that's not necessary to put so much thought and argument into. How has this kind of affection really been lost in these times? Why are we really throwing up the sandbags and digging the trenches to prepare for battle over this? Does every traditional gender role have to be canceled out now just because somebody doesn't like them? That even goes for women as well, who also have lost many feminine values and characteristics and cry about them being "sexist" yet want men to maintain theirs.

We overcomplicate things and destroy the beauty in what it means to be men and women when we fight for selfishness or the right to not have to respect and esteem the other side. Relationships are about showing love, and how do you show love? By giving. Not because the other person asked or expected to, but because you wanted to or cared enough to. It's that simple.

#BATTLEROYALE #MenOnFire

[AleDeEurope]

The problem why so many men don't wanna pay for dates it's because dating wasn't like it was back in the day.
Today, either you're rich, or you're gonna end up broke af by paying for dates.
Today many people go on many dates, it's not like you court this girl over a period of time, then when you both know you like each other you ask her out.
Today you ask on a date to the girl you just met at the park. You think she's cool from her first impression, so you decide to get to know each other over dinner... but then you realize you're not a good match.
Imagine that scenario very week... spending money on a stranger just for nothing? Most men aren't willing to do that unless they make good money.

Also, not paying is a great way to filter the girls from the women. Do you wanna date a kid or a woman?

Also, a woman that offers to pay shows that she doesn't see herself and her time as more valuable than yours, meaning she's down to earth and shows maturity (which goes back to my previous point about dating a woman).

Also, with all this dating around, you find MANY women who just want to have some fun without any intentions of getting serious, and many others who go on dates to get free food.

Also, the main problem is that many women have been brought up with this belief that they deserve a gentleman who pays for them... no, they don't. No one deserves anything, you gotta earn it. Many believe that because they're a woman, they're entitled to free food, when they put zero effort in the date. Men are tired of that. Spending your money on a woman who doesn't even care? That's a waste.

If you wanna pay, go ahead, it's your choice, but I'd rather split, since when I go on dates, my plan is to date women that are worthy, women that are gf/wife material.

[redeyemindtricks]

I speak only for myself, but... the reason you've given for women who prefer to pay for our own shit ("it's flaunting financial power") is way wrong, for me at least.

I've always been uncomfortable with having ANYONE pay for my stuff. There are 2 reasons, and neither has anything to do with "showing off".

1)
It just doesn't sit well with my conscience.
I really, really don't like feeling like I owe someone a debt, or like I'm being a greedy "taker".
This has nothing to do with the guy. He could really be treating because he just genuinely LIKES to treat... and it would *still* make me uncomfortable as fuck.

This is so deeply hardwired into my conscience that I've had to actively coach myself to accept certain favors in non-date situations. Like, I have a couple of friends, and a client or two, who are just... all about buying EVERYONE a meal, or a round at the bar, or some gift, or whatever, with nothing in return.
With these people, I've had to actively *remind* myself that this kind of giving is their "love language", so to speak, and that they'd be genuinely hurt if I said no.
It STILL bothers me, but, I understand them well enough to just shut up and accept.

2)
When men pay for a date -- or even just something they *think* is kinda sorta like a date -- my experience is that this comes with strings attached.
You may be the rare bird who really doesn't care and just tosses yr card on the table with no expectations at all, but... that's not how it goes with most men. Most men EXPECT something when they pay for things.
I hate expectations. Hate hate hate them. My gut reaction to just about any expectation is to stick out a big fat middle finger at it.

Better to not even take that chance.

[Puppylove94]

I do see what you're saying but every time a guy has offered to pay for me he's never assumed I owe him something afterwards. I think normally you can tell that by how a guy acts.

[redeyemindtricks]

@Puppylove94 I'm less initially trusting than a lot of people, and more attentive to subtle cues.
A lot of men will play it on the surface like they don't mind, but underneath there'll be little pieces of entitlement here and there that pop up. And/or little pieces of resentment, if they've paid for stuff and everything ISN'T going their way.

This goes especially for the guys who INSIST on paying. Ugh.

... Besides, this still leaves point no. 1, which is no. 1 for a reason -- it's more important (to me) than no. 2.
I'm just gna feel like I owe this person a debt, and that's not a feeling that sits well with me. ::shrugs::

--

In any case -- First dates shouldn't cost anything, anyway.
As I wrote about here
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a30346-the-real-answers-to-who-should-pay-when-dating

[ManOnFire]

@redeyemindtricks No, I do think most women with money want to flaunt that to men or impress them with it, if it wasn't true than they wouldn't need to put so much emphasis on how they have money and don't really need a man for anything. You do what you want, but there are always going to be people who do want to pay for you.

If men are expecting something, I can't necessarily say that's necessarily either right or wrong, though I wouldn't think it's particularly right, but it's no different than women expecting something from men. Part of the problem with female logic is that it's okay if they expect guys to do something, but it's not okay if men expect something from them. Again, it's not necessarily right, but it is how it is.

[bbch25]

I really think this is a well thought out take and agree with it.
For me, my biggest thing with my ex's was, you don't HAVE to do anything for me, but if you love me like you say, shouldn't you WANT to do things for me like I do for you?

I don't do dishes and cook dinner for my partner, or get up at 4am with him to make his lunch because I have to, I do it because I care for him and want to make his life a bit easier and it makes him smile. I ask for nothing back.

You're right about, if you're interested in someone, you'd want to show that to a person, and showing that interest can simply be buying that movie ticket or meal, show them that you're invested in this date and spending time.

Expecting a return isn't showing interest it makes me feel like you're doing me a favour by taking me out, and I now need to return that.

And you're right about it not making you a bad guy to cut out the girls who are simply using you for free meals, or force you to take them to over the top expensive restaurants on first dates or other things that are red flags to you and your wallet. Nor is it bad that if the girl offers to pay for her share, a bad thing to accept etc.

[ManOnFire]

Eggsactly. You get it completely.

[rjroy3]

I think you overlooked th mindset a lot of people come from. Many men don't want to pay for the first date, because they feel like their company should be enough for the girl. That she's interested and not just in for a free. Her willingness to pay for herself proves that.

Also, many girls that want to pay for themselves and sometimes pay for the guy do so, because they recognize it's silly to just expect the guy to always pay. I was raised with traditional values and in my last relationship I paid for the first few dates, when the girl at the time insisted to pay for me. That I've already spent so much on her, that she feels bad and wants to spoil me a bit. I accepted, a bit begrudgingly. But I understood the mindset. It had nothing to do with her feeling like she should solely because she could or how much she made. I made more than her and she still wanted to pay for me.

What's getting lost in this subject is that it's a batte of two mindsets: Value and Tradition.

Tradition says that the man should pay, because that's how it's always been. Overlooking the fact that was only the case in previous history because women didn't work or made very little. So when a man made, it was his attempt at courting her.

Value says I'm worth more than my wallet. I am enough. If you can't accept that, then tough. People for the most part are not courting these days, which was signified by paying. If you are not courting one girl, then simply paying is really presumptuous.

I'm of the mindset that it's a nice gesture for a man to pay, but it should not be expected that the man pay. If this isn't going anywhere, then paying for the one and only date is kind of a wasted investment. Or better still if she orders half the menu, it's not financially wise to do so. Even if you can afford to pay for all of her tastes, there's an underlying principle saying that this relationship is transactional. Why shouldn't the man expect sex at the end of the night if he's paying for everything. He put in his share, so she should do the same. But if she pays for herself, that's not the situation anymore.

[redeyemindtricks]

You were doing so well... until that last part.

[rjroy3]

@redeyemindtricks

The cool thing is you don't have to agree with some or most of what I said, to agree with part of what I said.

[rjroy3]

@redeyemindtricks

Obviously that's what prostitutes are for lol. I'm not saying that's what I want. I'm saying what comes along with the expectation of the guy paying often times is an expectation for more ie. sex. Because the basis of the relationship was transactional from the start. In his mind, he has invested a certain amount and expects to cash in. That's the mindset of many men and what lumos and myself agree is best to avoid.

[redeyemindtricks]

Hmm, ok. The way that last paragraph reads, it seems as though you might be actually endorsing that point of view.

... so, then, you're basically in agreement with lumos (and me) here, then. All good, sry for any misinterpretation.

[rjroy3]

@redeyemindtricks

And that's fair. Last paragraph I didn't clearly separate where I stood from a commonly held mindset of a lot of men. There should be an edit feature for comments.

[redeyemindtricks]

The lack of editing is one of my favorite features of this site, actually.

[rjroy3]

@redeyemindtricks
Enjoy watching people shoot themselves in the foot, by not being able to lie about what they said? Lol

[redeyemindtricks]

Damn right. That just happened today, actually (see rjgraveytrain's thread)
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2108815-how-to-protect-yourself-from-falling-financial-victim-to-females

So much lying... (That's actually Macchione the cyber stalker again btw)

On top of the lies I pointed out on RJ's thread, he also spends half that page claiming he's a millionaire, but the other half talking about "if I had a million dollars". Lmaooo

[rjroy3]

@redeyemindtricks

That has "Dramaaa" written all over it lol. I hope you and RJGraveyTrain had fun with that lol. From what I can tell, she's a pretty cool chicka.

[Anonymous]

I don't think the issue on here has been who pays for dates in the broad sense of the word but more specifically who pays for the first date. The first date you don't know if you like the person. You're on that date to get to know them. And this is when guys don't want to pay for the whole date. . . or at the very least a woman making an honest offer to pay. When I say honest offer I mean she actually is offering to pay her half, or at least for her own meal, which in my experience is less than half of the whole bill, and won't think less of the guy if he accepts her offer for her to pay for herself. Vs the women who offer to pay but if the guy lets her pay she doesn't want to go on a second date because of that reason alone.

From what I've seen large majority of men on here have no problem paying for the entire meal once established in a relationship or the two have been dating for a long period of time but haven't made it official yet. At the same time, they don't want to be stuck with the entire bill every single time either. All relationships need give and take. In every aspect of the relationship... and paying for dates is no different. If the guy is always giving her a free meal on dates, then the girl is also giving the guy sex after the date. If the guy always pays and no sex, then there is no give and take... just give give give on the guys side and take take take on the womans side. And if the guy is always getting sex but the girl is not getting pampered with a free meal or shopping spree at his expense or whatever then she's giving giving giving, and he's taking taking taking. Neither of which are a healthy give n take. That's an oversimplified scenario but it gets the point across...

For me, a healthy give n take once I know I like the girl is we trade on and off on who pays and every so often go dutch. And at the same time we go on and off on who cooks meals and who cleans..

But on a first date, I don't know if I like the girl yet. All I know is that something about her caught my attention enough for me to ask her or something about me caught her attention for her to ask me, but more likely the former. That's not enough for me to pay for her.

With that said, if I really enjoyed the first date, and I went in with the mindset of splitting and even if we talked and agreed to splitting, if I felt like we hit things off I wouldn't mind footing the bill.

[Hopefuldreamer8]

For me, it's not about having money to show a guy I have it. When I was completely broke I felt the same way. I just don't like when anyone pays for me. It makes me feel guilty. I know deep down that they are doing a nice thing for me, but then my pride gets in the way. I grew up extremely poor, and we had to learn from an early age how to take care of our ourselves, and if we wanted something, we had to earn money when we were old enough to get it. When it came to school and everything, we had to work for it. My mother couldn't afford school clothes or supplies for us.

So this is just an issue I've had since I was a kid. For me, it's not about feminism or equality or anything like that. It's just about how I feel when someone else pays for me. I've been doing it all on my own for so long that it's hard for me to accept when someone wants to pay for me. I love buying for someone else, but not the other way around. Even when it comes to gifts, I have a hard time with it. And it's not that I don't appreciate it at all. I know they want to do a nice thing for me. My mother had to convince me just recently to let her treat me for my birthday. I feel guilty for accepting it.

[ManOnFire]

That's understandable, I'm the same way.

[redeyemindtricks]

EXACTLY what I said.

I'm positive that this kind of thinking is MUCH more common than "women trying to show off money" -- especially since men aren't even impressed by a woman having money anyway.

[Hopefuldreamer8]

@redeyemindtricks I agree. My best friend is similar to me. I think it's why we get along so well. It's why is bothers me so much when guys on this site assume that all women are gold diggers. Everything I have in my life, I earned all by myself and it feels good. I'm currently working on buying a house, and it feels better knowing that all my hard work is going towards it, and no one is helping me with it.

[QooLipBite]

Despite having the new idea in my mind of a lady being financially stable, and that she is able to pay for herself because it's 2016 and women don't have trouble earning money like in the past (which was one of the reasons how the tradition came about). There was still a deeply rooted responsibility that was engraved in me when I was raised as a child and that was to take care of women.

So my first date with this girl, I completely stuffed up and forgot my wallet as I entered the uber to my destination, and I was panicking. I then thought that I would later pay her back somehow by taking her out somewhere else or getting her a gift.

We had initially planned the traditional movie and dinner date, but she said that it was 'fine' and that she'd pay for it this time and as we got to the counter to pay for our tickets... She took out her wallet and paid in cash. That was by far the most emasculating thing I had to withstand. My confidence, masculinity was basically ruined. I couldn't make eye contact with anyone around me at the time. So she wanted refreshments and I knew that would not order anything. Even when she was paying for her own stuff on the date kinda rashed me (it was a subconscious thing, I don't decide what I feel).

So then as we get into the movies, I couldn't bare it. I made a quick call to someone to help me out and lend me some money and I'd pay back when I got home. So fortunately, I was able to receive the aid and I arrived back with a bit of restored faith in myself.

[Mrwoo99]

Unless we're living under a patriarchy rule then yes men would pay but women have equality now so they should contribute and by a man a meal for a change.

If women are wanting to be traditional when it suits then maybe we should stop this equality crap and go back to patriarchy.

Feminism is narcissism people. It's one or the other girls. Women don't get a penny out of me unless I'm guranteed sex otherwise am just throwing good money away just so a whore can have freebies and then decide after 2 or 3 dates that we don't have a connection or that I'm just too nice like they always say.

I advocate escorts for sex and companionship becuase dating is no different than prostitution. If a women makes you either earn, work, pay for sex or time and companionship then she's a prostitute. Guys if dating is costing you time, money and work just for an average girl, get an escort becuase its a better investment and they're smoking hot. Your always guranteed great sex and companionship with a model escort.

[lumos]

Eh, I personally don't like adding money to the mix on the first few dates. Less pressure. Too many men think they can just buy women with free dinners, lunches and gifts, and then feel cheated if the woman ends up losing interest. I'd like to avoid that kind of pressure. I don't want to feel like I owe him something after just one or two dates. And if we have to buy something, like a coffee, then I prefer paying for whatever I decide to buy.
I don't mind involving money later on, when I know for sure that we're both equally interested in each other. Then there's less pressure and I won't feel like he's trying to trap me by buying me dinner.

[10dsw]

I wish more girls were like you

[redeyemindtricks]

Yep. Pretty much exactly what I said.

[ManOnFire]

So basically we have a problem here: women are expecting men to pay for dates, which doesn't bother me, but then you don't want men to expect something in return for paying for you. I'm not saying that neither is necessarily right, but it is happening.

[ManOnFire]

Most of the women on this post are agreeing with what I said so what you're saying can't be all that much of a thing.

[lumos]

*I* don't expect men to pay for dates just as I don't want *them* to expect me to suck their dick or anything after just one date. To me it doesn't matter if most women on this myTake agree with you. I wasn't writing my opinion for other women, or for you. I merely expressed that *I personally* think dating + money can be a bad mix, especially early on.

[funny_strange_man]

@ManOnFire Basically you have a problem. Just because a lot of women on thus site do not agree with lumos does not mean what she says is not a thing. There are plenty of women out there in the world that would agree with her.

[ManOnFire]

@lumos And that's okay, but what I'm saying is that women expect men to do certain things, and men expect women to do certain things. It is what it is. It certain situations it's right and in others it's wrong. That's just how it is.

@funny_strange_man I'm not saying that what she says doesn't exist, I'm saying that it can't be all that common, as I also know many women in real life who don't have her experiences and wouldn't change their minds about guys paying just because she said what she said.

[jjesica346]

Who sucks dick because of a dinner? We are simply saying its basically the gesture.

[10dsw]

@jjesica346

It is a nice gesture, I agree. However it is not economically feasible.

There was a period where I was going on a date a week for almost a year.

If I spent $50 on both my dinner and the date's dinner each week, that would amount to over $2500 a year... on a student's budget I might add. A lot of women can't seem to grasp this for reasons beyond me.

The Opinion Owner also made a good point: she feels like men can just buy women. To date, I have spent a total of $2 on first dates over 7 years of dating and I have found three gfs. So in the long run, if a girl really likes me she won't mind me not spending money on her, which filters out those who are half-heartedly interested or just looking for a free meal.

[SarahsSummer]

@10dsw The economically feasable part is maybe where you are going a stray. I dont think there's any expectation or requirment for you to take your first date to $100.00 dinners. You set the date AND the place. If you are going on 50 first dates in a year, maybe you should spend the money on therapy instead to find the root of that problem.

[redeyemindtricks]

@10dsw First dates should cost $0.00.

[legs_n_sheets]

Sounds completely reasonable. I agree.

[jjesica346]

@10dsw well that's a lot of dates. After you get to know someone its nicer to just stay home and watch tv/cook.

[10dsw]

@redeyemindtricks I agree... all though a lot of girls at my age expect a lot more. I dated only grad school level girls as I am in grad school myself... they have ridiculous expectations hehe

[10dsw]

@SarahsSummer Ugghh as for you... it's hard for me to take someone who recommends therapy and misspells feasible in the same paragraph seriously

[10dsw]

@jjesica346 Yep I agree

[SarahsSummer]

@10dsw LOL, When all else fails, become a grammar nazi.

[SarahsSummer]

@jjesica346 i agree. netflix and chill

[jjesica346]

@SarahsSummer yep, going out is a hassle anyways.

[SarahsSummer]

@jjesica346 And I just noticed the time. that's what I'm doing tonight with my guy.
Noce chatting w/you all.

[rjroy3]

@redeyemindtricks

This is what I was referring to. Avoiding the expectation.

[redeyemindtricks]

@rjroy3 The expectation is bullshit no matter how you cut it. If you want an "expectation" of sex after forking out a certain amount of money... that's what prostitutes are for.

[ManOnFire]

@redeyemindtricks The thing that's not adding up here is that you guys are claiming that when men pay for dates they're expecting something in return... yet a lot of guys are complaining about having to pay for dates, and since that's the case it can't be "MOST men" expecting something. Your argument isn't lining up.

[lumos]

I never said "most men". I said that too many men feel that way. Not that most, or all. "Too many" isn't defined. It just implies that there are a lot of men who think like that, and I'd like to avoid that kind of thinking.

[ManOnFire]

@lumos Redeye is the one who said most men. But even "too many" men isn't really adding up. If it was that common of a thing there wouldn't even be so much argument from guys about it like I said.

[Linhlilypops]

Same! Recently I went on a lot of "online dating" dates, so I tried to pay for my part or bought some drinks in return for the dinner. It's not just only I don't want to owe them anything but also I feel bad for the guys that he has to pay for many first dates so i don't want that becomes a burden on them!

[BETTERNOW]

If the guy is the girl out he pays for the date and vice a versa. If you don't want to pay for the date don't ask the girl out. It's kind of rude, ridiculous and very presumptuous to ask a girl out and then say to her that you expect to pay for half the date. Don't ask me out if the next sentences and I expect you to pay for half

[BETTERNOW]

I have asked guys out and I expect to pay the bill. An example was a new seafood restaurant opened in Manhattan and I didn't want to go alone. And it was big bucks. I went up to one of the guys in my class and basically asked the guy who wanted to have dinner with me and told him the reason why. He said yes. It was no big deal. And the vice a versa would've been no big deal either

[ManOnFire]

I guess I could understand that.

[Kuqezi]

Girls that think that way don't ask guys out because they don't wanna pay lol

[BETTERNOW]

I went to college in Atlanta Georgia. I had a car and I drove to New York for vacations. People would come up and say hey, can I have a ride? Sure will split the gas money. Hey no problem. Why is it so easy to ask sort of Dutch treat for gas money yet it becomes the United Nations when you negotiate and paying for a date?

[Kirah]

That's pretty easy for you to say, isn't it? You're a woman, you are not expected to ask a guy out.

[legs_n_sheets]

I pretty much agree with everything you said. In other guys' defense, though, just as you do, I also see where they are coming from.

Why I still do it? Generally, I have a good judge of character so I know that the girls I go out with are pretty easygoing. And in some cases, those girls have done favors, or saved me themselves at some situation at work or college, or wherever else. So I don't mind paying if she's cool. Admittedly, I still hold some traditional values, very much like you do, too.

Now that I think of it, I've only payed a date to one girl who was truly a bitch. She was quite an asshole and I'm glad I fucked it up (maybe a bit conciously) around our third hangout. So yeah, I know I have a good judge of character except for that one time (she didn't even want to have sex) and I'd never date, less pay to a woman who I knew wasn't worth it at all in the first place, anyways.

[MusicLover8098]

Yes I agree. Especially when you said "when you like a girl, or you think you love her, you want to do all kinds of things for her". And, you even took what I was going to say next, "I know I do". That is why I think this first date argument is pointless. I mean, if you really like the girl, wouldn't you want to show her a little romantic gesture by at least offering to pay? I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[ManOnFire]

Dude! High five!

[MusicLover8098]

Yeah!! If only more thought like you and I 😊

[AleDeEurope]

Dude, but dating today is not like back in the day. How do you know if you really like a girl if you just met her 5 minutes ago?
Today it's all fast. You meet a girl, ask for her number, and then take her on a date the same week.

[MusicLover8098]

Yeah a lot of people do it that way but I would prefer to get to know the girl I am going on a date with. To me a date is meaningful. I don't want my first one to be with someone I barely know who I may not even see again. It's crazy how dating goes these days honestly.

[MissFabulous]

Well said! :) I agree, there's no need to over complicate things. There's nothing wrong with a man or woman paying or if they go dutch or they take turns paying for dates. It's not meant to hurt nor demean anyone in any way. Unfortunately, there are people who use others when it comes to this topic, which sucks and just shows what kind of person they are. Also, I understand some may not have the money to go out on a date or pay for the other person, which is fine. There are fun and free things one can do to have fun on date without the pressure of paying, just got to be creative. :)

[Jamesol1]

If i cared about the girl and knew she was a nice one... and generally someone who is keen to split it.. i would happily treat her if i had the money. But women who expect men to pay are such a turn off. You can say what you want... but chivalry going by gender equality is sexist. Men having to open doors, pay for women because... they are women? ... do what you want though if you can afford it. It seems a lot of the girls on here are feminists but also want the benefits of traditional values. Quite hypocritical.

[Library]

If a guy pays for a date it means he really is serious about the girl. Girls interpret it that way too. If a girl offers to pay, it shows me that she's not going to use me and be selfish throughout the whole relationship which is a good thing.

[ManOnFire]

That also is a good point.

[Rocket_Queen]

There is still hope for men who are men and women who are women! I love it. Not looking to get my hands on any guys funds but I appreciate and admire and respect a man with traditional values like that. So refreshing in todays world.

[Kuqezi]

Do you you hold to women's traditional values?

[Rocket_Queen]

@Kuqezi like stay in the kitchen? No. But I'm not a supporter of feminism at all. I lean towards more traditional ways though.

[Kuqezi]

If you lean towards traditional ways that means kitchen and cleaning duties lol
My parents were traditional due to our culture. Dad pays everything, mum cleaned and always cooked.

[Rocket_Queen]

@Kuqezi sir I mean like barefoot and pregnant. We both cook, because we both work over 40 hours a week. My shift is from 6:45 to 7:15 if I get out on time so he cooks those days. I pretty much clean our house. Make sure his uniform is clean and ready to go. Make sure he has what he needs. By traditional I mean I appreciate a guy paying for the first date. I appreciate when a man offers me his jacket. I appreciate a door being held open for me. Just like I appreciate being a woman for him. I like having the house clean and ready. I like buying his favorite foods. I like surprising him at work with his favorite stuff on his bunk. I like dressing sexy for only him. I like exploring him. I like good old fashioned men and women who take care of one another. If that's wrong, sue me.

[Kuqezi]

Yeah my parents are still kinda like that.
I just guess since I'm a part of the new generation where guys and girls are looking for "equality" plus I have Dutch friends lol

[Rocket_Queen]

@Kuqezi lol! And man, I hear you, we are equal at this point and honestly women have tipped that scale in favor of women for a while just because we have a vagina. Equality isn't about being equal anymore. That should have died out years ago.

[Kirah]

You're traditional? Better get back in the kitchen, traditional women aren't allowed to express their opinions without their husband's permission.

You aren't traditional, you just cling to traditional values whenever it benefits you.

[Rocket_Queen]

@Kirah sweetheart don't talk to me like you know me. Are you seriously ignorant enough to believe that tradition ONLY lies around women in a kitchen? Because that's your own stupidity and not mine. Traditional is many MANY things. Like not being jumping on every dick that walks by for example. Like believing in marriage and a man who ask your father for your hand. Like believing in fighting for your marriage instead of giving up. 2 people who take care of one another. 2 people who compliment one another. So please don't speak to me like you know anything about me and any benefits I'm looking for lol. Because me andy husband? We take care of each other. Neither of us is leeching off of the other one. We are a team and got each others six. So you run along, act proud, be little mrs. Independent thangggg. Plenty of these boys will take you up on your offer. ✌

[Guy83]

Nothing wrong with this article. For me it's not about the money, it's about the attitude behind it. I just have a dislike for spoiled princess types. I mean, if I paid for dinner and then drinks after dinner and uber/car service I want to do it because I just want to be a gentleman towards an awesome girl. Not because some chick thinks she deserves to have me pay for everything. It's no better than me thinking "well if she thinks I owe her this, then is it okay for me to to think she owes me some dome?" Obviously, that's ridiculous...

[SarahsSummer]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!
Best GuyTake Ever. I hope some of the boys out there read this.
I got attacked so harshly for suggesting the same thing yesterday with several guys going all out hostile saying such things as "I love how women eagerly destroy their own love lives over like 20 bucks and then complain that there's no good men. Yeah there are, you just ignored them because you're petty. "
I feel that comment could have easily been converted replacing the word women with men and vice versa. And made more sense!
So many guys dont see that if you make an attempt, a simple gesture to treat us just a little special, a world of love could come your way.
LOVE <3 LOVE <3 LOVE <3

[10dsw]

What have you done to deserve to be treated special lol?

[SarahsSummer]

@10dsw Fortunately for me, You will never ever know.

[10dsw]

Based on the creepyness of the comment, I don't think I want to know =P

[TripleAce]

Cha ching = love

[Kirah]

@SarahsSummer and? Why isn't it true the other way around? You think men don't appreciate a woman who pays for a date?

[AriadneSky]

I dont think women pay to show off, its the same for anyone. you like someone you treat them. also you just said you don't accept women not letting you play your traditional role... doing certain traditional things then turn around and say woman want to drop their role but expect you to maintain yours,..

i thik you should have the relationship you and your partner want, but its too much having to complain every which way. she wants your money you'll put her in her place. she wants to treat you you'll put her in her place. and the the problem is women about you to be traditional but don't want to be themselves.. i dont see that. i see men holding onto 'tradition' bc it makes you feel superior,. and bc a bj feels better than a meal. If she pays for the meal where does the bj come in.

[ManOnFire]

"also you just said you don't accept women not letting you play your traditional role... doing certain traditional things then turn around and say woman want to drop their role but expect you to maintain yours,.."
- That doesn't contradict what I said.

"i dont see that. i see men holding onto 'tradition' bc it makes you feel superior,. and bc a bj feels better than a meal. If she pays for the meal where does the bj come in."
- It doesn't add up. If this is really all that common then you wouldn't have as many men out there as you do complaining about having to pay.

[dragonfly6516]

My response to a similar take:

I don't think it's fair for guys to always have to pay. If it's a first time meeting up like this, then you should both pay for yourselves. What if someone has a horrible time, and then has to pay on top of that? It would suck.

If you already knew each other, and are taking the lunge to ask them out, them whomever did the asking should pay. HEY LADIES: You wanted gender equality, so this applies to you! It's now acceptable to ask a guy out and take HIM on a date!!

Once you've established that you want to go out again, or even put a label on it, take turns paying for the date, or splitting it. Cooking counts as buying dinner, and maybe the other party could do dishes, or help.

[Puppylove94]

This take deserves a metal of honor. Awesome job!

However, I'm one of the girls who thinks the guy should pay for the first date and for me it's not stability. It's just the fact that he knows how to put others before himself. I agree a woman should do that too- but there's give and take in a relationship. I agree with everything else you said to a T.

[TripleAce]

At 22 what stability do You expect from a guy. Most guys are just starting their lives. There is no stability lol

[redeyemindtricks]

@TripleAce May wanna check that again... she said she's NOT thinking about stability.

[Puppylove94]

@TripleAce exactly what @redeyemindtricks said

[Kirah]

If relationships are "give and take", why are you taking more than you are giving on the first date?

[Puppylove94]

@Kirah it's part of that traditional thing that were talking about on the other post. I'm not about to have two separate arguments with you on different posts. Pick one

[jennsmith99223]

men generally make more money but its about respect too... men should pay

[Kirah]

@jennsmith99223 I find it hilarious how 90% of the people who think "men should pay" are women themselves. Easy to say from that privileged position of yours. The wage gap doesn't exist in the West, by the way.

[Kirah]

@Puppylove94 okay, but how are you contributing if not through money? "Emotional labor"? Do you have a job? If yes, why not contribute? If not, you really should grow up. Gotta be self-sufficient some day.

[Puppylove94]

@Kirah I have a job and am going to school. The guy im talking to is in the same situation financially. It's not that I don't want to contribute. I will when the time is right. I think, speaking traditionally, a guy should pay. Yes tradition has evolved over the year but I personally think that aspect of it should not change. I have never been out with a guy that didn't INSIST on paying.

[Kirah]

@Puppylove94 tradition doesn't evolve, that's basically the point of tradition. You are just picking and choosing the parts of tradition that you like. That's incredibly sexist. And yes *of course* you think tradition shouldn't change. After all, this tradition benefits you! Nice hypocrisy.

So, how else are you contributing, if not financially? If you have a job, why aren't you contributing anything? Unless he earns six times more than you do, there really isn't any excuse.

[Puppylove94]

@Kirah I said I WILL contribute. When we start dating the guy pays for the first few dates (I'll always offer to put him a drink, some snacks, little things like that.) further into the relationship we start switching off who is paying. And yes he will be making about 3x the amount I will be salary wise. It doesn't matter rn tho.

I'm not sexist.

[Kirah]

@Puppylove94 it makes sense in the context of a longer relationship, but in dating, not so much. Quite a few first dates will not lead to a second date, and at that point, he will have paid 100% of the time. This is one of many reasons why people should split the bill. It's 2016, not the 1950's. I mean goddamn, everyone makes money now, and some women still insist on having the guy pay for everything?

But fine, do whatever you will. I'm so glad I don't live in the US, this whole culture of sexism and entitlement doesn't exist over here. Don't bother replying any further, there's no sense in arguing with you.

[Puppylove94]

@Kirah lmao you're the one who started this argument. If I don't feel chemistry with a guy on the first date, I will force him to split the bill with me, no doubt.

[lyssabugg35]

I don't let a guy pay if I know I'm not interested. And at least the first 3 I insist on paying my half. I know Financials are hard on everyone.

However, the current guy I'm dating doesn't pay for anything except an occasional coffee. He doesn't understand that it's the gesture. It's the planning something special. Take them where you can afford once in a while. Generally (not always) girls are better at expressing emotion either through actions or words. Paying is a way guys can let girls know they're charishe'd.

I never thought I cared if a guy ever treated me until he never did. (He held the fact he would buy coffees over me last week so he lost credit for that).