How feminism benefits males (A look at feminism from a different angle)

[apexalpha]

Here is how feminism is good for you and YES it affects your life.
I'm making this take short and concise.

A feminist mother describing how her upbringing of her boys made them see females equally as human and not sub-human hopefully this will also make them see others from different races and socio-economic backgrounds as equal.

“I used to think raising boys would be easy, comparatively. At least they’re growing up in a world that regards them as the default human being. But god, what a threadbare version of humanity we’re setting before them, one in which they’re not even encouraged to see personhood in women and girls.”

AWESOME SEX…

A study by Rutgers University:

“The study also found that feminist men & women reported higher quality and more stable relationships than their non-feminist counterparts. This study has thus brought on questions as to why feminism is tied with better sex and relationships. One theory is that feminist males are typically more supportive of their female partner's ambitions and goals than more traditional men.”

• Women who perceive their male partners as feminists reported greater sexual satisfaction.
• Men with feminist partners reported they had greater sexual satisfaction.

The juicy bits:

1. Splitting bills in a household and in dates of course (Going Dutch)

2. You can have more bedhair days you don`t have to be looking dashing all the time you can rock the (cave man look) more

3. Being the white knight and chivalrous no more need for that. Opening doors and giving up your seat it will make your life a bit easier won't it?( But you should still be helpful and courteous to your fellow human beings)

4. Extra expenses buying flowers and chocolate etc before dates. More money to spend on yourself (kerching)

5. You are Hot and rare commodity in women’s eyes you scored your self some bonus points (easy attraction booster)

6. Feminists are less likely to be golddiggers and have a strong determination of brining success to themselves (no more sleepless nights thinking she’s after your money)

7. Burden of war doesn’t only fall on men (women soldiers taking some bullets also)

8. A women given her rights is less likely to be bitter (Less moaning and more enjoying each others company)

[sdistotallyme]

I took the time to read your take. Although I don't agree with it, I don't mind rational arguments and discourse from people with different view points. It makes me think harder. However to be candid I believe you have an oversimplified an extremely complex and serious issues.

First off the proper name for equal rights between sexes is "egalitarian", not feminism. Feminism claims to be about "equal rights" but is really more about "womens rights". Inherently even the word "feminism" connotes a one way street. Feminism rarely, if ever explores topics of "mens rights" including suffering, discrimination and oppression against men (yes that really exists despite the so called "patriarchal" society feminist claim we live in.).

While I have met women who are independent, strong minded and yet concerned about male issues (here's a lesbians viewpoint

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU)

I've unfortunately experienced concerted bigotry and hated by so called "feminists" who are receiving public funding and political support. My experience attending a public university was absolutely incredible. The university approved and supported a "take back the night rally" for women where feminists were chanting "hey hey mister get the fuck of my sister" and screaming obscenities at passerby males. No university backlash, no media reporting, no resistance... nada. This was supposed be about "womens empowerment". Their hateful opinions were treated like fact. You call these women "feminazis" but why is our government, liberal media and public education systems referring to them as "feminists". We do they get political and mainstream educational support?

I used to write these women off as just losers who were looking for somebody to blame for their own failures. However as I got older I began the war on men has insidiously permeated more than a college freshman's experience. These women become teachers, professors, journalists, activists and politicians. They are manipulated the system to their own ends all the while calling themselves equal rights "feminists". Men and traditional women need to take a stand against this.

[oracle12c]

You are absolutely right, spot on.

[boringmurderer]

100% correct, sadly. :\ this has been my experience with most feminists but, being a woman who has already had multiple traumatic experiences with feminists, i have to tip-toe around the topic, say things i don't want to say, or don't necessarily believe, etc. just to keep them off of me. my anxiety is bad as i write *this* lol! just horrible what some of them are willing to do in the name of an equal rights movement.

[Pat8707]

@boringmurderer
I'm sorry to hear that. Let me guess, they called you a "straight white male" or an "internalized misogynist?"

[sdistotallyme]

made several typos in my response (I wrote this at 3AM at night). Hope everybody can still understand my point.

[boringmurderer]

@Pat8707 well, yes, but they do that all the time to all women that don't automatically fall in line with their opinion lol!

but what i've experienced was faaar more traumatic and agitating and just plain worrisome than any name calling could ever be and i'm not very comfortable talking about it in a public forum tbh. the bullying, the verbal assault, the flat-out /stalking/ and /harassment/ is just... astounding in that circle. stuff you'd expect from a crazed, psychotic, blood-thirsty ex-boyfriend or ex-girlfriend, you know?

[apexalpha]

I agree that some feminists like the ones calling for men not to pee standing up are extreme and that's upsured. I'm all up for egalitarianism but not at my expense as a man

[sdistotallyme]

This has to with greed. No human being, no matter if you are a minority, female, gay or st8 is beyond reproach when it comes to behavior. Nobody will ever be completely satisfied. Fundamental biology such as hormones, physiology and DNA should be taken in account on how things should be. Political correctness will not ultimately supersede basic human behavior.

[Jxpxtxr]

I loved this take and I hope this disproved some people in their stubborn believes that "men can't be feminists" lmao.
I am fully aware that saying this will get me a lot of downvotes of people who are too ignorant to look up the actual definition of 'feminism'.
You know what? I don't even care.
I'm totally sick of this bunch of ignoramuses citing a small body of people as the face of any social issue. It really bugs me since how could a small percentage represent an entire population -which in this case is feminism. Calling all feminists "extreme and evil" is like calling all muslims "terrorists". Then be laughed at when you say, you believe in this cause or be mocked when you're trying to legitimately explain yourself. All in all, I am just tired of being narrow-minded in so many spheres, but in particular in this one. Wish people -men in this case- could literally take the stick out their ass, but hey on the bright side you know who not to associate with then.
Thank you for sharing :)

[apexalpha]

Most guys are pissed because of feminazi and because some feminists want more rights then men kind of like reverse descrimination

[Jxpxtxr]

yeah and that's what pisses me of - it's like I mentioned above, people just randomly judge an entire movement based on the outrageous actions of some feminazi and that is just wrong - And the women who mask their motifs to become superior to men behind the word 'feminism' are just spoiling the actual meaning of the word itself but you'll have to be pretty damn stupid not to realize that these women are so far from being feminists despite that being what they call themselves.

[apexalpha]

Agreed I go by the definition

[Sjeggy]

definition of feminism is female rights
so in other words not equality
it is the literal definition
so in other words the negative things are removed and positive traits kept thus causing unbalance by trying to create balance

also, if that were the case, then there should be no only male speeches about rape, since not every man rapes
it ishypocricy if one keeps not the rules oneself sets

[Watermelonoma]

@Sjeggy

"definition of feminism is female rights
so in other words not equality"

not necessarily. If you have one class of people above the other, the group fighting for the underprivileged class is not fighting for inequality. By trying to raise the quality of life for the underprivileged so that they meet the level of the privileged class, you are fighting for quality by default. Now one can disagree, as i do, with what feminists actually view as problems (as well as their solutions to fixing those problems), but I wouldn't jump to the immediate assumption that they are fighting for superiority

[Jxpxtxr]

@Sjeggy
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism
" the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes "
EQUALITY - WHY DOES THAT NOT REGISTER IN YOUR BRAIN
and why am I even bothering talking to someone who fails even the simplest task to google a definition..

[Anno_Domini]

Have you ACTUALLY done any research on the LEADERS of the modern feminist movement (60s onward) and what they have written/said?

[Sjeggy]

oh dear immediate intelligence insult
please, if there is anything fun then it's being wrong since i learn something
" the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes "
www.google.com/webhp :
the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminism :
the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/feminism
Belief in or advocacy of women's social, political, and economic rights, especially with regard to equality of the sexes

www.oxforddictionaries.com/.../feminism
The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

womens rights, so how can you say it is rights for BOTH sexes.
you keep the traditional advantages whilst removing everything that was negative accosiated with women. you throw away everything and make it impossible to talk and interact with women since everything can be percieved as sexist

male rape victims organizations budget cuts, and nothing about that with the feminists

[Sjeggy]

also the new trend that is sticking its' head out of the sand
false rape claims
you can always say you were raped as a woman and as long as you had sex you will be proven right

also, the fun little #killallmen is a joke
whilst rapejokes are evil and wrong
no i do not say that you say so

when a woman wants a baby and the man doesn't, tough luck!
you'll be a financial slave for 18years!

also custody, unless the mother juggles chainsaws whilst holding the baby, is going to get custody

i got punished in school for defending myself from a female bully since you wern't allowed to hit girls.
rape is serious, prison rape a joke, all these bullshit things.

the thing is
i am all for financial equality

but the social equality is the grass is greener on the other side
women are becoming like men bbecause that is supposed to be better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU

[Jxpxtxr]

I fear you did not manage to read what I've said properly, my darling - Read again, I've said EQUALITY. Now read the definitions you've found online again - They all say EQUALITY or EQUAL TO MEN.
You're welcome for me pointing out that flaw. :) @Sjeggy

[Jxpxtxr]

I did not even read the rest of what you've said since you have proven your incredible level of ignorance and self pity right after claiming '#killallmen' is just viewed as a joke and comlaining about rape jokes - Well, my friend, it is one thing to joke about something that will never even happen with a 100% certainty and another to joke about a thing that is happening every 2 seconds in the US alone.
Please THINK (if you can do that..), before you say anything more and READ and make sure you UNDERSTAND what I'm saying before you even think about typing another reply.

[oracle12c]

"men can't be feminists" oh sure, no doubt about that.

"Calling all feminists "extreme and evil" " ... yes, but calling feminism evil is a matter of political or ideological believes. Just like calling Islam evil, is a matter of perspective.

I don't mind the many men and women who identifies with feminism but really are not, I am opposed to those who truly believe in the ideology of patriarchy and their wises to undermine the freedom and justice for all by affirmative action legislation.

You need to respect that some of us are actually relates to feminism as it is both on paper and in real life. You clearly don't, you are reading the definition in a dictionary and think oh that sounds great I believe in that, and then disregards the actually policy done in the name of feminism.

Most who identifies as feminist are not like that, just as most Muslims are not terrorists, but the political feminism seen anywhere at all is like the Islamic terrorism - a very extreme interpretation.

[Sjeggy]

aww i was hoping you would point that out :)
problem is the objectives of achieving said equality:
achieving the so called "male privilege", in order to become equal to men right?
so how do you explain to me that this is going to be equal for both genders if females gain this male privilege?
also, if you watch that link though you said you stopped reading since you didn't like my example, you will see that male privilige is mainly ficiton. i found it really intresting to watch

and what you say is that because prison rape isn't happening "every 2 seconds"
it is not as severe to joke about it?
well then let's joke about other things that are immoral since it doesn't happen so often eh?

also, continuing to insult my intelligence truly makes me sad and does indeed prove your point a lot more than without those constant jabs at me personally

on a side-note, if feminist frequency feminis? or another of the many "bad apples".

[Jxpxtxr]

"equal for both genders if females gain this male privilege?" - Men do already have the privilege so by giving the privilege to an underprivileged body of people you make them equal with the privileged group hence = Equality. It's not so hard to understand once you actually think about it. :)

"well then let's joke about other things that are immoral since it doesn't happen so often eh?" - again, it seems live you've failed to actually read and process what I've said, I was comparing one thing that doesn't happen AT ALL to a thing that happens way too frequently.
This might shock you but I think rape is rape - doesn't matter who rapes who and it is always equally disgusting to joke about it.

"feminist frequency feminis?" - I did not even understand that, bother to rephrase/explain?
@Sjeggy

[Sjeggy]

and that is where you are wrong
this way females have both male and female privilege thus causing imbalance
equality is just so fragile that it is nigh impossible to achieve. it is the same as saying silence
doesn't happen at all? i guess the victims will be relieved to hear that
just searching prison rape statistics show 140000 prison rapes in america.

feminist frequency, is it feminist? or isn't it? since a lot of the groupings define themselves as feminist but then other feminist groups call them feminazi so i have a hard time differentiating certain groups

[Jxpxtxr]

"doesn't happen at all?" Oh please, you can't lack so much intelligence that you fail to understand what I'm referring to, really - I refuse to believe that already you have already revealed a lot about you're actual level of intelligence and your capability to understand things in these comments and just for you to see, this was not a direct/personal insult :)

And yes, there are extremists who are called feminazi and I do absolutely not agree with their ways of forcing their will upon others and many of their beliefs - just for the record.

[Pat8707]

Hahahaha this guy was just trolling. He literally tried to come up with an extremist post and make people mad, but you are obviously not bright enough to realize that.

[MistiGal]

Awesome sex... juicy bits... like really? you give this information to man who has been married... has children... is now separated or divorced... is now trying to find where his children are because the mother took them away from him in another country or to an unknown and he isn't able to see them due to red tape bullshit but YET!! still has to pay child support... and its been a long five year battle to get his children back to have some time with their real father... now tell me if this is feminism to what extent? and oh... what about the husband that has had to endure verbal and or physical abuse from his partner/ wife and is too worried about getting belted over the head in case he says anything about womens point of view... yes it happens and don't call him a weakie... because you don't understand the circumstances... the rate of male domestic violence is up there and it happens because of women... men don't get a fair chance to be heard... they are the ones that are silenced... and society does not get to see this or hear of this... the suicidal rate is up for the amount of men who can't cope because they have no one to turn to or there is no support for them... how many domestic violence centres are there for women around the country... I am yet to see one for men...

And while we are on that note... how many times do we hear this...
It's men's fault because they never speak"
"If only men would say what they feel"
"If men would just open up..."

Well ladies, stop shutting them down and dismissing them when they DO speak.
Not surprising that when men speak about how THEY feel, women want to dismiss it. Here's the thing ladies... you are only half of the equation. Like it or not, how your husband / partner feels is equally as valid as how you feel. It's a little thing known as respect. We have equality you can go to work and do whatever you want but don't dismiss men speaking out about how they feel, especially when you are constantly saying that men don't speak. How about you zip it and listen and maybe ask some more questions before you try and shut them down again...

In England.. barmen who wear skirts have to stop wearing them because too many women were groping at their penises... so they have to stop wearing their skirts because of this... now if a man put his hand up a ladies skirt that worked in a restaurant... what do you think would happen? So we have to teach women not to grope.. because they have no self control

[MistiGal]

I had to stop there as it was the last of my lines... but to cut it down... feminism really... its all a hoo harr to me.. and it appears that the USA is the biggest campaigner of all in the world in feminism... unless I am wrong if there is another country out there just as bad in campaigning it... so hence its any wonder there are massive relationship problems... problem is too many monkeys singing their own circus...

[BelfastBoy]

For me the problems are centered around law and social opinions of men. Without trust there can be no love.

[MistiGal]

@BelfastBoy... yes.. you hit the nail on the head... how can there be equality when the laws quite often pertain to a one sided view... I am hearing you and totally understand... there just simply is not enough support for men out there... it will happen one day... but its slow... its all about campaigning mens rights too.. but If it is to happen... it has to world wide... and that will never happen... that is why feminism isn't real... take a look at the women in Saudi Arabia... they get beheaded in front of public even in front of the police for a crime that they have committed... its horrifying! a women screams innocence until that sword has struck her head! Now show me where are the feminists for this? Have they bought their plane tickets to go and defend this unmoral act?

[hellionthesage]

the statment, "A feminist mother describing how her upbringing of her boys made them see females equally as human and not sub-human. . . " is itself sexist since it essentially states that men inherintly treat women poorley, and since it excludes any comment about women that women don't thus meaning that women are morally superior to men. It also ignores the fact that if this was the case then no one would care and thus there would be no argument to begin with. All studies show women are equally capable of being terrible people as any other and this statement completely ignores that which is ironic since the same people claim that men and women are equal yet obviously don't believe it. As for the better and more stable relationships, where are these studies and who did them (link)? The excerpt you presented was from the people themselves and how they percieved it and thus is not really concidered empirical data. Its opinion, was there any follow up to see how they were a year or more later, because it doesn't matter if they think the relationship is stable and then it falls apart the next day. According to most studies, men who are stay at home dads (sherking there male gender role) are more likely to be divorced, ( www.popsugar.com/.../Why-Mr-Moms-More-Likely-Split-Divorce-27331248 ) and men who do more house hold work tend to have less sex despite sharing the responsibility, ( www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...feminine-women-off.html ) Divorce is also much lower in conservative ie non feminist groups and higher marriage satisifaction, (www.evanmarckatz.com/.../ )
Also this neutrality opens the door for sever miscomunications, especial since gender/gender roles are biological in nature and we are attemtping to supplant them through social reconditioning, ( www.wealthysinglemommy.com/.../ ). Feminist are far more likely to hate her male partner then anything else since the very basis of feminisim is the completly wrong notion that men oppressed women through out all of history and even today (thus creating a me vs them mentality) which as I pointed out earlier is sexist and immediatley damages the relationship since you have essentially already told them you don't trust them and that you look down on them/objectifie them (in the sense that feminist demonize men through patriarchy theory, Duelueth model of domestic violence, don't be that guy rape campaigns etc, and as such have stripped him of his humanity or reducing him down to a thing or objectifying him) and instills the notion in the feminist woman that he is the enemy. As for the women in combat: www.westernjournalism.com/.../

[hellionthesage]

As for womens rights, the only rights women did not have, where do to the fact that they did not have the coresponding responsibility, they did not have the right to vote for most of history, but then neither did men. The only reason why, at least in america, men got it roughly 60-70 years sooner was because they were the ones going to war to fight and die (in fact one survey done in england showed that 70% of women did not want the right to vote because they did not want to go to war) something of which no women had to do, and even then they were still given the right to vote with out the legal ramifications that come with it ie being drafted or if refusing being imprisioned. Women could and did work however the reason why men were favored was because to pay a woman essentially meant the money was hers, to pay a man meant you were feeding his family. In short a womans money is her own, a mans money is his families.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

I'm not a feminist (anymore), I'm for equality. I'm one of *those* people.

All the sex stuff I would attribute to "You are Hot and rare commodity in women’s eyes you scored your self some bonus points (easy attraction booster)." But it's not about the sex anyway, it's about what is just.

It's women's notion of 'feminist' that makes it attractive on a guy, you've romanticised it and feminism must be quite gynocentric (when it's not supposed to be) in order to think like that, it's not a rare commodity at all to be a guy who cares about equality. If I'm for equality but don't call myself a feminist, do I lose attractiveness? Even though it doesn't make sense that I should, I think I would lose attractiveness. The problem is you're 'othering' people who are non-feminists in your mind. I think naturally you're going to like people more if you identify them as one of your own. Why is that any guy that isn't a feminist is automatically a "more traditional man"?

All the chivalry and paying for stuff doesn't really go away because feminists can still say they like when a guy does that (and then add in parentheses that guys shouldn't HAVE TO do it, like that makes it better). If you say you like it then that means we basically have to do it...

Ok, what else... I think you'll find 8 isn't true, even with their rights, whether justified in doing so or not, people will find things to be bitter about e. g man-spreading. Looking at 2 I don't see what that has to do with feminism and with 7 I'm like.. ok, but it's not like feminism has a monopoly on equality.

And since feminism doesn't have a monopoly on equality, has made such a bad name for itself and is vague to the point where I don't know what you mean if you say "I'm a feminist," why do you feel the need to cling to the word when egalitarianism is the same thing (as "normal" feminism) and hasn't been so spoiled.

I stipulate that 'feminism' as a movement and 'feminism' in the dictionary don't lineup in many aspects. I my mind, those clinging to the word must be too gynocentric to really value equality.

Lastly, if feminism was responsible for some benefits for me then thanks to those that came before but the 'equality' I think I want isn't the 'equality' I think feminists want anymore.

[boringmurderer]

since no one seems to have said it - this is a very mature, fair, thought-out opinion. thank you. this was an extremely pleasant read (mm, words!)

[AllThatSweetJazz]

@boringmurderer
Thank you so much for saying so!
It's very uplifting and reassuring to find females who can appreciate such an opinion. It definitely beats being accused of misogyny just for not being aboard the feminist bandwagon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d52hwV5n3ac

[AleDeEurope]

I no longer know what feminism is, what's true and what's not. It's starting to become really confusing, something that it's more up to the person's interpretation than anything else.
You hear women that call themselves feminist that fight for true equality, but then other that fight for equality when it's convenient to them. Then women who give fake statistics to prove a point, and others that use real statistics. Ones that shout at you, while others that act in a civilized and mature way.
I'm just starting to not give a fuck about feminism, I mean, I will support equality for all, but that's as much as I'm gonna say, I'm not gonna try to argue with anyone cause there's really no point.
The REAL feminist movement is very positive, but it's full of hypocrisy that they have to get rid off in order for others to get more people on their side. The real feminists need to step up against the feminazis, the ones that are hurting the feminist movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oqyrflOQFc

[apexalpha]

Yeah there is no clear mission behind the movement it seems to have been hijacked by feminazi

[oracle12c]

@AleDeEurope @apexalpha

Feminism never was, it have always been based on false premises, even in the days where their fight was justified. The ideology is based on false premises about patriarchy. They mix-up process and results, cause and effect, and did so from day one until this day. Only 50 years ago, the had a legitimate fight in the western world, despite the idealogical misconception, today they do not have a legitimate fight so they tries to invent one.

Can any of you mention a functional law still enforced, in any western country where women have less rights than men?

[AleDeEurope]

@oracle12c there's none, women have the exact same rights as us men, actually, they have more thoughtcatalog.com/.../
Years ago their fight was justified, today it isn't. Like you said, they just invent one.

[mangaka92]

A study at Rutgers? I don't buy it.
Contrary to popular belief, by this post's definition of feminism, feminism was replaced a long time ago and hasn't existed in a while. The current state of feminism is 3rd wave feminism which is, as this post calls it, "feminazism." Feminism hasn't actually been concerned about gender equality since 2nd wave (and I'm almost argue 1st wave if it weren't for some of the concerns raised during 2nd wave feminism).
I have never met an open-minded feminist. Ever. At least not a 3rd wave feminist. Even a lot of 1st and 2nd wave feminists were male hating, but the issues that were being supported weren't so much concerned with male hating or actually hurting the male population but just striving for equality. I'd consider myself a 1st wave feminist. Nearly every American would consider themselves 1st wave feminists. A large percentage would consider themselves 2nd wave feminist. I'd probably call myself 2nd wave, as well, even though there are some issues they went over I disagree with. However, 3rd wave is what people disagree with and it has nothing to do with gender equality. That's why people are arguing over it and so many guys disagree with it. If 3rd wave at least shows SOME concern for gender equality by helping issues that men struggle with, then I'll praise 3rd wave feminist and become a supporter because I would agree that it's actually concerned about gender equality and not just the selfish interests of a few rich women, embittered women that gain support by using words like "gender equality" and "equal rights to everyone" as a guise of their male hatred. Who would say "I actually WANT gender inequality!" Not very many people. Most would say they wouldn't. However, that's not what third-wave feminists (or "feminazis", the REAL feminists of today and not the feminists of the 1900s) actually want. They're embittered at men for whatever reason and are wealthy. They want revenge.

[oracle12c]

Actually even though feminism haven't been about man hating in what you call 1st and 2nd wave, they have always been based on the same false ideology of patriarchy, and never have they been concerned about men's rights. 1-3 wave doesn't really matter, it's the base that is wrong. 3rd wave is just the inescapable result of it.

[mangaka92]

Not quite. And it's not just me making up names of "waves." Their historical titles given to particular periods of time that feminists promoted more specific agenda. One of the biggest issues brought up by 1st wave feminists, for example, was whether woman should be able to vote. Woman absolutely should be able to vote. Everyone is going to agree to that and not feel like they're feminists. If they disagree, they shouldn't have the right to vote, themselves.
It started being more about the patriarchy during 2nd wave feminism. By 3rd wave feminism, that's all that it's concerned with. Actual feminists are concerned with patriarchy and male hating. Women that don't hate men, but still support feminism are generally just say they want things like "women should be able to pay for guys if they want to when they're on a date" or "she should get to pay her own bills" or other stupid things that don't really have any place in feminism.

[mangaka92]

All of those are just things you ask your boyfriend about. Not what needs to be passed in legislation. Feminism is about legislation. It's always been about changing the law. Whether a girl pays for a guy or not has nothing to do with the law and it never did. That's just what actual feminists tell women that don't hate men to believe because it "sounds good" to them. If you make the "agenda" of feminism innocent enough, of course people will believe it. It's not innocent at all, though.

[oracle12c]

Yes you are right, feminism is about legislation, I am not very knowledgeable about the waves though. I my country we don't use the expression 1st, 2nd and 3th wave. We just call it feminism or modern feminism, where modern feminism is what you call 3rd wave and some call feminazi.

[mangaka92]

Oh, the waves are specifically attributed to feminist movements in America. I apologize.
Yeah. Modern feminism is the real problem.

[BelfastBoy]

"see females equally as human and not sub-human" - Feminists often do this, you make an assumption in your question that women were seen as Sub-Human by men which is total garbage. Not only that but historical evidence shows the exact opposite.

Also the study you quote was done in 2007 by Laurie Rudman who is an old school die hard feminist. Also the research she quotes in the first page of her 13 page report, linked below she quotes herself as a source, which is like saying 'look i'm right - because I said I am' - typical feminist justification.

I wouldn't trust her study any more than I would the CDC's claim that 1 in 5 women are raped, which not only totally contravenes the US department of justice's official statistics (which were something like 0.03%) but has mysteriously disappeared off their website. THAT study had a 33% response rate and mirrored the 1990's study done by Mary P Koss which included the question "have you ever had sex after having a drink" - if the woman said yes, she put that down as a rape.

Feminists will go to extraordinary lengths to justify their hatred of men, including falsifying research (Feminist Harriet Harmon, UK Labour leader has even been ordered to stop misleading the public over rape statistics).

www.researchgate.net/.../225145092_The_Interpersonal_Power_of_Feminism_Is_Feminism_Good_for_Romantic_Relationships

So no I don't believe feminists have more stable relationships, based on evidence from a feminist anymore than I believe Macdonalds happy meals are good for me because they said so.

[heavensgift2girls]

There are many different types of feminism. Feminism is simply a women's advocacy movement. Feminism isn't a single set of ideals as there are many different ideas on how to best advocate for women. Some female advocates support equality opportunity, some support forced equality despite the different choices men and women make. Some female advocates hate or look down on men. Some are concerned with the legal aspects, and some are concerned with how people act in their private lives. The name "feminism" is a pretty big clue that the movement is about women, and not about what is best for both genders.

Many of these branches like to claim they are the real feminists and the others are fake, but the truth is they are all real feminists. Some benefit males, and some hurt males. Saying a different branch of feminism isn't real feminism is not only a lie, it shows ignorance about feminism as well.

Currently no matter what a guy does, there will be a different type of feminist standing there telling us that we are scum and the reason why feminism is still needed. No guy with any intelligence is going to want to support a movement where he so often receives hatred, and discrimination as all of these different types of feminists all wave the same banner, as if that makes everything they do okay. All a woman has to do is claim to be a feminist and it excuses her actions against men, because people assume she is for equality, which isn't what feminism is always about.

Not being a feminist does not mean you believe women are sub human. It simply means you don't support a movement where everything is based on what we think is best for women, as oppose to what we think is best for both genders.

[Watermelonoma]

well, i've made a take already concerning why i don't consider myself a feminist. I don't really need a movement to benefit me personally for me to take interest in it. My view on feminism is that it should continue to exist, as i believe in equal rights for women, but it doesn't have my full backing, because in that simple definition of what feminism is, comes with it a whole host of other issues concerning what the problems actually are, and how to actually solve them. It's not simply a word that means "equal rights for women". If that were the case, then yeah, i'd be a feminist today. The issue is that in this quest to find equal rights, they get the interpretation of some very key "problems" incorrect in my view... and since there is little room for a nuanced stance within the feminist camp from my experience, I'm not quite invested in their cause... not enough to label myself as a feminist. Besides, doing so would go against one of my core philosophies in life, which is to listen to all but follow none. That's partly why i switched to an independent voter a few years back. Today, I merely remain tolerant of feminists right to exist and express their opinions

[apexalpha]

It sounds good only on paper but what goes on in reality is another thing. But still it has benefits for guys just saying

[muspelhem_5]

Yes Take Owner.

Teaching boys that they will grow up to be evil rapists is so healthy for their psyche. Making them feel guilty about their sex is going to make them become really great people. Jeez.

Have you ever actually met feminist?

[FakeName123]

"AWESOME SEX…"

Except there are contradicting studies to this as well. Here are two examples:

www.psychologytoday.com/.../why-gender-equality-does-not-always-work-in-the-bedroom

"Our mammalian brains come wired with very ancient sexual preferences, quite prominent in the most popular forms of male and female erotica preferred by Homo sapiens. Men are aroused by being dominant and by submissive women, women are aroused by being submissive and by dominant men. In the bedroom, inequality beats equality."

www.nytimes.com/.../...marriage-mean-less-sex.html

"Couples in which the husband did plenty of traditionally male chores reported a 17.5 percent higher frequency of sexual intercourse than those in which the husband did none."

[Kinstrome]

I agree with this for the most part, but it doesn't address everything. Equal rights and responsibilities are important, but saying feminism is about equal rights doesn't answer most of the issues that are actually present. If we were in the Middle East, espousing equality for women would be an actual point because so many people there don't believe in it. But it doesn't answer such questions as "Are statistics about wage gaps misleading or intentionally miscalculated?" or "Is censorship and excessive labeling of sexism inhibiting people's freedoms?"

For some guys, the problem really is just seeing feminism as inherently anti-masculist. However, for other guys the problem is that there are awful feminists like Zoe Quinn, Jessica Valenti, and Brianna Wu out there, and level-headed feminists don't often differentiate themselves from them. When people like them point out every little thing as sexist, it doesn't help the true cause. Nobody with common sense is going to look at Ms. Pacman and see sexism or think it matters in the least.

[Aztecwarrior480]

I am honestly confused with what feminism is now. First, I've been told it's equality for both genders. Then, people tell me it's female supremacy and making men's everyday life a living hell.

I don't know. I really don't have much of an opinion on this. All I can say is that I don't mind letting a woman be equal as long as she still treats me with respect as I would be already doing the same for her. I can still acknowledge that men and women will never be totally equal do to our biological differences but I still believe that it should never excuse women for poor behavior and self-entitlement.

I also don't mind men and women who still prefer to be traditional as long as they don't impose their traditional values on others. However, I have actually witnessed a lot of traditional men and women who have maliciously been shoving their traditional beliefs down on other women and especially men's throats, especially here on the internet (which is clearly already happening right now on your MyTake), which is what really irritates me about some of them. If that's what they believe, then cool. Just don't force your beliefs down on other people and let them live their lives however the hell they want as long as they don't harm anyone else and their freedoms.

[JimmyO]

Couldn't have said it better

[RationalMale]

Ahaha that's funny.

For one, "Feminist=bitch." Get used to it. You're not going to salvage the term, no matter how many takes manginas and feminists write.

For two. Marriage rates at lowest rate in record USA history. Funny, huh?

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...-rate_n_3625222.html

For three. If you believe that today's feminism means women want to pay their own way on dates, I'm really amazed you haven't been eaten by goats. Women don't want to pay their own way. That's their nature. It's like how they don't want to ask guys out.

Here's feminism in a nutshell.

Dress codes at school require modest dress. Girls whine that it's oppressive and SEXIST!

www.thenation.com/.../

Girls get to earn easy money for dressing slutty and walking around. Feminists get them banned because it's SEXIST AND OPPRESSIVE!

www.inquisitr.com/.../

If you're really dumb enough to kowtow to women on their "issues" you deserve the trouble you will get.

[Minyamo9]

You poor misguided fool. Generalizing us like that is like me saying "Men=Assholes", some feminists are bitches, some aren't. Some men are assholes, some aren't. You really should stop generalizing. Marriage rates are at the lowest rate because people realize that the majority or marriages end in divorce. I actually pay for full dates sometimes, and I ask out guys too. Stop acting like all women are the same.
The dress codes can be prejudiced because it's only enforced on women. I have seen guys walking around my school with half of their boxers showing but if I wear a tank top that doesn't even show my breasts I get sent home to change. They're unfair double standards.
If you're really dumb enough to think male privilege doesn't exist then you deserve to live in ignorance, have fun with all the hate you're gonna get.

[BelfastBoy]

Men=Assholes would not be a generalization it would be blanket sexism. A generalization accepts that there are exceptions to the rule so you need to get your terminology right otherwise it's just confusing to people. As for feminists, when I see an ideology based on hatred I abandon it, much like I would Fascism or a Nazi. To be sure there is one feminist whose opinions I agree with - her name is Christina Hoff Sommers. It is not however wrong to hate an ideology that is based in hatred and has 50 years of literature that proves it. As for your double standards, try digging ditches for 15 hours a day then going for a better job you're qualified for only to find out they're looking for more women to make up 'equality' numbers - 'equality' which strangely never existed in that ditch. Male privilege is a fiction invented by feminists to justify a victim industry and that hate you speak of was created by them like a self fulfilling prophecy.

[whatIsCreative]

im going to keep this short and sweet. feminism is for censorship. feminism has used a twitter hate mob to achieve what it has recently. there are rights afforded to women that are not afforded to men (the right to abort a child, genital mutilation, winning most custody battles, etc.) feminism is a joke and needs to stop.

also the wage gap doesn't exist, if you look at how they achieved the $0.77 for every $1 statistic, you would find that there is no gap. they took all jobs and the overtime that was worked and didn't break it up like they should have.

that and i dont want to be a self loathing mangina.

[Phoenix98]

Women already have equal rights, feminism has exceeded it's usefulness in the United States. And I have met very few if any decent feminists and honestly I prefer the traditional and old fashioned way of doing things, also your little housewife thing you have on your block of pictures is highly offensive and not true at all, housewives are actually pretty hard working individuals, also being a mother is one of the hardest jobs a women can have I learned that a long time ago after seeing all the stuff a mother actually does.

Also feminism has strayed a long way from the actual good core value's it used to have when it was first created if feminism when it was first created met the version we have today on the street the two wouldn't even recognize each other.

[apexalpha]

So you think that most goals of the feminist mission has been meet?

[MrZylister]

This man is right, feminism serves no fucking purpose here in the U. S. It's just greedy bitches that got rejected all their life wanting power.

[Phoenix98]

Here in the United States yes it has and it no longer serves a purpose towards equality here in the states, I can not say the same for other countries or lands though.

[Ozanne]

This is such a slippery slope. While I agree that feminism has been successful for many things the western world has now, I don't think it hurts to maintain what the original feminists fought for. When we see people outright rejecting feminism, they aren't being completely clear on what they're objecting to. It seems more that they are just tired of the maintenance. They see that we're in a happy place (somewhat) and now that we're here, let's just shut up about it and live happy lives now. But then what happens when we see once again women being treated unfairly about something? We call on feminism to get women out of their bind. I don't think completely forgetting about it and moving on is a great idea when feminism is still kind of fresh for humankind. In the western world it's only been in the last few decades we fought for the basics. I personally still have gone through setbacks because of a male-preferred industry I worked in. We're just not out of the woods yet.

[Phoenix98]

@Ozanne true equality will never exist though, some fields will always be male preferred and dominant because men are just simply built for that kind of work, women aren't. Women are also better in different fields then men, we each have our own skill sets and I think we should stick to em.

[oracle12c]

I completely disagree with your definition of feminism, no there not just feminazis either.

Feminism is the political ideology based on a certain world view of patriarchy. I am ideology opposed to this political ideology, and it's base on inaccurate informations and deliberate lies.

Equal opportunities to the sexes is not restricted to feminism, so there are ideological alternatives that doesn't promote single sided gender issues and misandry like the bulk of feminist movement does.

Equality yes please, feminists no thanks I'll pass.

[cipher42]

While I appreciate the sentiment here, I think this take is missing some of the more major benefits of feminism to men. For instance, the issues caused by our society's ideals of what manliness is, such as men being pressured to act masculine, men being seen as more threatening and as worse at caring for children, and men not being taken seriously when they report sexual assault. Also the whole thing where your "know the difference" image is actually pretty damn in feminist (the "feminazi", which is a offensive term in and of itself, is a fat ugly unfeminine woman).

[apexalpha]

but the feminazi is the ugly side of feminism and need to be portrayed as such

[cipher42]

First off, as I said, the term feminazi is offensive. Not to radical feminists, but rather to those who actually suffered and died at the hands of the nazis. Any comparison to nazis where the thing being compared has not actually and literally killed millions of people is not at all okay.

As for the picture of the "feminazi", using physical unattractiveness to denote metaphorical ugliness is also not at all okay, as it has some pretty shitty connotations in terms of the worth of unattractive people. My physical appearance has no bearing on my value as a person. And do I even need to explain how making the radical feminist look "man like" is severely unfeminist?

[Nuqood]

Do you not realize that the vast majority of men WANT to fit the classic male role? Men aren't suffering from maleness; men are suffering because there's women who are threatening their maleness.

Feminism also does nothing for the 180,000 male rape victims/year in prison; Feminism does fuck all for the average male and only does things for the weak, loser men.

[Nuqood]

Shit, didn't even read past the bit about traditional male roles.. you're actually convinced that feminism isn't responsible for making men look threatening and bad with kids or not taken seriously when reporting sexual assault? I guess you haven't paid attention to the whole "Teach men don't rape", all the feminist endorsed abuse ads depicting men as the aggressors 100% of the time, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0, the ample amounts of protest against men's shelters because "it'll take away from women", etc.

[MickyMouse1231]

@nuqgood I consider myself a feminist and the good ones out there are concerned with the fact that nothing is being done to help the male rape victims or to make men seem less like monsters. We openly admit that the movement fucked up a bit in some places and there are people out there who say they "want equality" because of the power trip. However, there are some of us who really do want to change the way things are handled for men as well. We're saying that it's not right to force a woman to become a housewife because "she's a girl" anymore than its right to force a man to take a bullet for his country because "he's a guy". Not all feminists are fucked up...

[MickyMouse1231]

@nuqood

[oracle12c]

Can you be more specific and document how feminism have benefited men:
*pressured to act masculine?
*men being seen as more threatening and as worse at caring for children?
*men not being taken seriously when they report sexual assault?

[Tarvold]

This is so full of shit.

1.) Going Dutch is like communism - Great in theory, but never works out in real life.
2.) Feminism doesn't change what women find attractive and unattractive.
3.) So long as being chivalrous helps men get laid, we'll continue to do it. Added bonus is that some of us actually enjoy being nice people.
4.) So long as buying flowers and chocolate helps men get laid, we'll continue to do it.
5.) You could have a big dick and be hot and rare. You could be rich and be hot and rare. I've never heard of a guy getting laid just because he was a feminist.
6.) Just untrue. I've encountered many feminist gold diggers who used feminism to amplify their gold digging.
7.) Just bullshit.
8.) Again, only in theory. Never happens in real life.

[WesTheGuru]

agreed

[Creative_Catbug]

Feminism in theory sounds good... equality and all that jazz.
however... when "free the nipple" and attempting to remove the word "bossy" from common usage... are rated a higher priority than stoning in a country for marrying a man your family doesn't like... its pathetic.

Feminism is no longer about being equal.
it's not even about empowering all women anymore.
It's misguided people falling into it for its promises who fail to see the big picture.

Want equality?
Follow Egalitarianism
or heck... just treat people with respect

[oracle12c]

"Feminism is no longer about being equal." it never where...

"it's not even about empowering all women anymore."... actually it still is, only you and I just don't agree with the methods used and the idealogical background.

[gotc147]

In regards to number 7, I will reserve opinion until the first female soldier is killed in battle.

Everything else is superficial, things that happened once a relationship was on stable ground anyway, at least in this generation.

Feminism has no redeeming qualities anymore, the mission was accomplished decades ago but the activists didn't want to get a real job and opted to make a career out of "charity" so to speak. The Al Sharpton's of women's rights, they can't let the issue die because they'd be out of a job, they're litterally career antagonizers.

Just like every other left-wing cause, it is detrimental to society.

[darkroses758]

Wow, so many negative comments on this. Honestly, I'm not a feminist but I think that if guys can't accept a woman who want's to be independent in society and not depend on anyone else. than that man should go gay or find a woman who simply is okay being partial or completely dependant. Arguments over feminism are ridiculous. Regardless of what anyone else thinks about it, women are going to act or be however they want to be, and just because we are different from each other doesn't mean we need to be organized into categories.

[BelfastBoy]

No one here has any problem with your life choices. On the other hand women generally speaking seem to have a BIG problem when men decide to make their own, not marry or defend their rights. You said it yourself

"If guys can't accept a woman who want's to be independent in society and not depend on anyone else then that man should go gay.."

You've already jumped to the conclusion that my disagreement and the disagreement of others over the actions of feminists is somehow an 'attack' on your independence and frankly that only shows your own bias, not mine.

I celebrate differences in men and women, what I do not celebrate are changes in the law and social opinions towards men that paint them as lesser than women or punish them and take away their rights and choices...

[darkroses758]

No, honestly, what guys think of women (as a sex of human) in general, really doesn't matter. Everyone has different opinions on how you as a person "should" act. The term feminism just directs it all to one sex. Think what you want. As an individual man (or woman even) who may or may not accept a woman because they think the woman should act differently, it's really just making his or even her life harder or easier. Also, it was you who chose not to look at the bigger picture, or in this case, the entire sentence... "if guys can't accept a woman who want's to be independent in society and not depend on anyone else. than ****THAT**** man should go gay or find a woman who simply is okay being partial or completely dependant."

[M_A_X]

Some men might, but most don't have a problem with equality. The problem that most men have is that the most outspoken feminists are batshit insane and think "women can't be sexist".

We have a problem with the fact that you women who believe in feminism want to call yourselves feminists, and put yourselves on the same level as those batshit crazy women. It makes it hard for us to tell who we're supposed to hate, you see

[darkroses758]

"I'm not a feminist" vs. "you women who believe in feminism want to call yourselves feminists" do you see why I might be slightly confused?