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For the first date, when I ask her, I expect to pay, and arrange everything for that date. When I get a second, I want to make it all about her, and what she likes, but I still expect to pay.
When we decide we are a 'couple' it comes down to who wants to go where, and eat wherever, and should be give and take. She pays when she chooses, I pay when I choose.
So I don't really have any dating experience so this is all hypothetical, but I guess it would also depend on how the date went. If the date went well than the guy offering to pay would seem nice, since you would want to see him again and pay him back later (by paying for the next date or something else). If the date didn't go well, than I wouldn't want the guy to pay for me, because it would seem like a favor which I would have no intention in returning.
i appreciate this.
You know one time some female co-workers were going out for lunch one day, and I said I would go and one of the girls said you are? Like surprised I would even hang with them, then I said yeah and jokingly said you buying my lunch? She got kinda snappy and said what I ain't buying you lunch you supposed to do that you the man. I ain't buying for no man. Then said to the others cann you believe that? I kinda got put off by the comment, I'm awkward and shy to begin with and making a lighthearted joke isn't something I'd normally do. Hurt my feelings a little
Wow... she seems old fashioned. She takes things too seriously. Lol
@Curious_Jane indeed
On a different note, i feel if a man takes his woman out, I'd say get anything on the menu, you only live once, keep the data happy and lighthearted and damn the costs! If you wanna filet mignon, get it. Dont settle for a salad, I like a woman who's not afraid to eat😛
"at least not for a wage and therefore did not have any money to spend of their own "
This is not true and is Feminist propaganda, women did lots of paid work in and out of the home.
The reason for the tradition is because men were legally responsible for women, if a woman broke the law her husband or father was responsible for the crime or debts and he would go to jail or pay the debt him self or go to debters prison and do hard labor until the debt was worked off. This was to shield women from many of the hardships of life so they could care for the children.
I think it should be 50/50 on the firsts couple of dates that because you don't know where things are going. At a time i've went on a date where I paid for the guy food and a movie to see what the guy thinks in that case but the guy felt bad bc he didn't like when a women paid for them.
If i happen to find a girl I expect her to be a team player, if women still wanted that tradition they wouldn't have killed chivalry. But they already have.
You're ending summary was very spot on. The more support women receive, the less they value the support. (Women are spoiled by these gestures.)
True they may be spoiled it doesn't mean they must act like it though. What is lost in a lot of women today is the compassion aspect, while males are the strong wall on the exterior, the woman is the soft gooey substance that holds everything together. I believe there is an imbalance in todays society and this is where it lays. Both genders are having to make up for the missing parts in the other gender.
"Many people also feel they have a sense of responsibility to pay if they're the ones who did the asking."
Is this the secret reason girls want guys to approach them? So they don't have to pay?
laugh out loud
I don't approach because I'm a wuss. I actually have to be really comfortable with a guy to allow him to pay for anything. I always tell the sever to split the bill the first few times we go out, then take turns thereafter.
I have always suspected this.
I go against tradition, not because I am trying to be a rebel lol. But I feel really uncomfortable with anyone else (man or woman) paying for me. So when I go on a date, I prefer to pay for myself, and let him pay for himself. No pressure, let's just have fun!
Men always have to bring more to the table than women do, in one form or the other.
In this case, the form is in finances, though it could also be in the form of better genetics, more power, more social desirability, etc.
This is because women invest much more energy into one reproductive event than men do. For a woman to have a baby, she has to sacrifice one of only 4000 eggs, 9 months of her life, and provide milk for the infant for about 6 months. Her body is never the same after this.
For a man to have a baby, he has to sacrifice one of the 10,000,000,000,000 sperm he will make over his lifetime. It takes about 2 minutes, and then life carries on as usual.
When a man and woman have sex, the woman is bringing (or giving the illusion of bringing, if contraception is used) exponentially more resources to the table in the form of reproductive currency. So the man has to have many objectively desirable qualities to be her equal, while she simply needs to exist.
Just because many women do not want to pay does not mean that women have become spoiled nor does that mean that it is an unequal right. Many women are asked out and why should the askee have to pay when THEY were asked out?
Gaining equal rights in law has nothing to do with the preferences that people have. I dont know what is so hard to grasp about this.
If a girl you just met asked you to get luch later, would you expect her to pay simply because she asked?
That is an aquaintance. NOT a romantic endeavor. Big difference. Stop being stupid.
Quit being so condescending.
Why is it different?
Your argument for why guys should pay is because they are the ones who asked.
No ones condescending. If i have to spoon feed you basic sense, that is your problem for not being able to think.
When you ask friends out to hang out, are you trying to fuck them? Get to know them a little better for romance? Become exclusive? No. It has NOTHING to do with that. Is that clear?
Because they wanted to have a good time? to show they want to invest in a relationship as well? because they're grown?
I don't really care myself, just throwing suggestions out there :/
Go with friends. Go with friends. Go with friends.
It makes no sense for someone who is courting someone to ask them to pay. Its insulting quite frankly.
Hi. I think you're cute. Want to go to dinner?
Sure!
Just to let you know, we're splitting the bill.
Not a date to me. Just friends.
If I were to ask a woman out, I would pay. Id like to treat her, thank her for for agreeing, and get to know her better. I wouldn't insult her by asking her to split it.
Some women love to do that. Thats good for them. Some women insist on paying. Great. I dont really get it though.
(When you ask friends out to hang out, are you trying to fuck them?)
No, which was the point I made in my original post.
I said "Besides the tradition aspect of it, I think the reason is because your'e paying for the possibility that you might have sex at some point"
Bassically that the reason why the guy pays is because, he's paying for the possibility of sex at some point in the future.
My issue is about how common it is for girl to have sex on the first date with guys they meet at clubs/parties/tinder.
Why do I want to pay to takes girls out on dates for the possibility of something she gave away for free to other guys?
It doesn't seem worth it.
You're irrational-nothing new-if you think that is the only reason why men pay. Read some other answers on here and think outside of your small box.
So you dont want to pay for a date because of the possibility of the woman having given it out to a random dude (which you seem to have some made up number in your mind about the amount)? Then no woman who cares about how much some men sleep around should date you for the same reason--a lot of guys give it up to anything with a wet hole, why are you different?
You said it yourself (When you ask friends out to hang out, are you trying to fuck them? Get to know them a little better for romance? Become exclusive)
I'm not saying sex is the only reason but its definitely a big motivator.
It's different...
Scenario1. Guy has 5 hookups, and then meets girl 6 and wants a relationship, he agrees to pay to take her on dates wait Now he is paying to take her on dates and wait a month for sex.
Scenario 2. Girl has 5 hookups and then meets guy 6 and expects him to pay to take her on dates for a month before she sleeps with him.
The difference is guys don't give out free easy sex and then expect the girl they want a relationship with to wine and dine him before sleeping with her.
Essentially you are saying that you only consider sleeping with someone if they indirectly pay for it.
Smooth. My other replies to the same concept here are more refined.
Your stupidity is tiring. Not all wo/men do that. Use basic sense.
HAH! so the point is basically as long as you have something to gain from it, a sexist principle is fine. Amusing that you don't mind if a man assumes you can't make your own money... to keep your own money. Also implying that the person who is asked out (and is free to say yes or know) should have no investment in the affair is laughable, they agreed to take part in the courting, unless you think women have no say in the courting process? ;)
I don't think it is ridiculous to expect the other person to pay for what they got. That just seems obvious that they should at least pay for what they got and if the other person chooses to pay for them then good for them.
Your ideas are all over the place... You start off on the right track with the idea of once men holding most of the financial power but then you go to women are now in a feminist place and paying for dates is a manly thing to do (wtf?), then finish off by saying pride is the reason men are compelled to pay for dates (again wtf?).
I like the guy to pay for the first couple of dates. I am fine to alternate after that. It is a sign of interest for me. There is no dollar value for the "paying." We can go have ice cream. Or coffee. Or pizza slices. Basically for me paying is like showing me you care about my well-being when we are together. And it is the same reason I want my dates to open doors for me.
ah that good 'ol dollar worship
@TheSavageTruth not at all. I make good money on my own. It is not the amount but the gesture.
You can "pay" for cheap stuff - coffee, ice cream whatever. I am not judging. I find when the guy doesn't pay he wasn't that interested.
I let you pay but bring my own money just in case.
This weekend I went on a pricey first date. It was somewhat a special occasion and I thought we were "hanging out" so I assumed I would share in some of the costs.
When we were on the way he preemptively cleared up any potential confusion by saying "just want to make it clear, this date is my treat!"
And I kept my wallet in my purse at his request.
It's not society, it's evolution. The male of the species demonstrates his superiority over other males by proving he is a capable provider.
You will not change this. You can "socialize" males NOT to do it - but not 100 percent will buy into it. And those are the guys who will be the most successful with females.
Everyone believes in evolution - or think they do. Then they refuse to embrace it's scientific effects on society. You either believe it or you don't.
Most males who focus on 'game' avoid paying. It does not impress modern women, in fact, modern women are more likely to pursue guys who won't pay.
@0112358 I'm unconvinced. I've been a bouncer in a two-college bar now for years and I spend 12 hours a night talking to mostly college men and women. I can tell you, from what the gals are telling me... you're incorrect. I can even see it first hand... where the hotter gals end up with the guys who have the means to pay.
But I'm not trying to convince you. In fact, it's better for those guys if you REMAIN unconvinced - more opportunities for them.
Having the means to pay and paying are entirely different things.
Without question, women prefer men with money.
@0112358 Well, heh... a guy with the means to pay normally takes his girl out on more expensive dates. If she can't afford such a date - who do you think pays, brother?
"Game" would suggest that taking women out on expensive dates tends to subcommunicate that they're out of your league and you need to impress them. Those who try to report and share ideas on it generally find they get more interest from women by not taking them out on expensive dates at all, unless perhaps they're already a couple, and they don't expect to actually generate any attraction off doing so.
@0112358 Well, hopefully you ARE taking out women who are out of your league. Money kinds of puts them "in your league" ... right?
I'm a modern woman and if a guy made me pay if sneak out of there cause I wasn't prepared lol
I don't want man to pay me, it makes me feel awkward, as if I can't do it myself. So I think before going out we should deal that we pay our own. I like to feel that I am independent, self-sufficient and I do not need others to pay for me. Though if he really wants to do it, if he longs for it (as some men asked me to let them to pay) that's no problem. Just if I have money at the moment I prefer to pay for myself.
'Ultimately it all comes down to tradition. It's hard to resist it when it has rooted itself so deep into society's clutches.'
Sorry but this just makes women sound like too much like they are helpless victims of their circumstance, when realistically they just like the pampering and the male validation.
Let's be real! Anything else merely serves to justify their behaviour.
a lot of idiots on here. What about the fact that whoever is asked shouldn't have to pay? Some like pampering indeed, but thats not the reason for many.
a lot of guys on here devalue the true worth of men. Sad.
So what if I asked the girl, she must have wanted to come on the date or she wouldn't have agreed. If she expects me to buy her stuff, all I can assume is that she wants the freebies, and that that is more important to her than the value of my time and company.
Hard to see that I am devaluing the true worth of men since I am the one saying we shouldn't be treated as means to an end (and considering that I'm a man myself). Let's be real: if the person that asks is the person that should pay [whatever bollocks logic that is] then 9 times out of 10, it's going to be the man.
So what you're actually just sugar coating is the sexist belief that men should always pay on a date.
Not necessarily. Some women give men chances.
Basic reading comprehension is sorely needed. Its not about her expecting freebies. Some will want that. But if you are asking somene out romantically, it is very selfish and rude to ask them to pay half. YOU sought that person out. YOU pay.
@RationalLioness
basic reading comprehension, indeed...
My, girl, you are down right condescending, I seriously recommend a thorough reading of Dale Carnegie.
'[S]elfish and rude' sounds more like something that would apply to somebody that wants everything paid for them.
Please, we don't live in the 1950s anymore. Women demand equality, in this day and age, and it's something that comes with a little thing called responsibility.
If you want to go on a date with me, the value of going out must exceed the price of one mochaccino or caramel latte.
If it does not, you can't want to date me that badly, so there's not really any point in agreeing to go on a date when you can't escape your own obnoxious traditionalist dating mindset.
Why do men pay for dates? Because they have to if they are to have a chance with most women.
Why do women expect men to pay for dates? Because they can.
The words "taken for granted", "spoiled " and "entitled" ring true here. They describe most women today when it comes to anything gender related.
"Ultimately it all comes down to tradition, it's hard to resist it when it has rooted itself so deep into society's clutches."
Can we use this same argument to justify women staying in the kitchen and cooking for men?
Why the hypocrisy, ladies?
Dating it's like unofficial prostitution in a way.
@Roostah Exactly!
Fuck tradition and ideals. The only ideals that matter are my own and I'll never pay for a date unless me and her are already in a deep relationship. Then out of the kindness of my heart (not because I feel I have to) I might will do it. Other than that either she pays for my stuff too or we pay for our own food.
And this is why you're not in a "deep relationship" I'm sure.
If a guy asks the girl to go out, then he pays. If she asks him, she pays. Simple as that. I wouldn't ask my friend to go have ice-cream with me and then make her pay.
And usually girls don't ask.
If you go the equal gender way then forget about roles. As long as she's not a professional cook and maid at the house I'mnot gonna be a wallet either.
bu the problem you are getting the special treatment but i don't get that special treatment. and i do all this for you but at the end of the day she says i can do what ever you do so we both are equal which is unfair while i am do every thing for you even you can do and dont get the respect as much as women get in the society.