Women should not be forced to date a nice guy

[Anonymous]

I'm tired of society pointing us out as women stating that we're stupid for not going after a nice guy. So what if the guy is nice?

Because he's nice does that mean I should date him?

No that's not how it works. I'm gonna date you if I feel we are compatible, I'm gonna date you If I feel sexually and emotionally attracted you and most importantly I will definately go out of my way for you if I feel that you've literally caught my heart and I really adore you.

Being "nice" is a good trait yes but I mean what else do you have to offer me? US women need more than that. And before guys bring up the "So you prefer fuck boys" fiasco, no we don't. We are simply attracted to them because they bring what we've literally being searching for and can't find in other guys.

That may be charm, intelligence, wit or even looks or even a combination of everything except being the biggest ass wipe in this galaxy. And people, whether you're a boy or a girl, we all have to agree on the fact that sometimes it's hard to separate the good apples from the bad. No one walks around with a sign that says hey I'm a fuckboy or hey I'm a gold digger. No one and I mean no one is going to pick up on the bad unless proven guilty. People need to stop passing the judgments and learn from others mistakes, value their personal testimonies and make them useful by applying them to their lives. Thank you and don't stop bring a blessing to others.:)

[RedThread]

The problem with the whole nice guy versus bad boy thing is that it isn't that black and white. There are a lot of quality good men out there but there's an entire subset of nice guys who aren't really nice. There are nice guys who are bitter assholes in denial. They feel incredibly entitled to women and their bodies just because they're "nice". They don't realize that being nice is expected of people it isn't a unique quality. What else do they bring to the table? There are good men out there who are genuinely nice though but those men also tend not to have certain traditional masculine traits that women initially find desirable. We don't get bitter about it and instead work on ourselves because we know we will find a woman who wants to get with us and spend their lives with us. On the other end of the spectrum you have the bad boys or "fuckboys" as you call them. Many of them can be borderline shamelessly bold and confident. They exude traditional masculinity which women find initially attractive BUT they are just taking advantage of women which leads to heartache. They are the direct opposite of the good guy who may not be as exciting at first but more worthwhile to commit to. Unfortunately a lot of women who start a relationship with the bad boy think they can change them like a romance movie or TV drama which is usually futile. People only change if they want to change.

So ladies don't go after the nice guy but instead the good guy and pursue the bad boy at your own risk or if you just want a casual sex situation. Nice guys stop being bitter entitled douchebags because you give actual good guys a bad rap and push women right into the arms of the bad guys.

[Alwaysthere85]

@RedThread you said it and explained it so perfectly. Thank you!

[myTake Owner]

very well written👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[RedThread]

@Alwaysthere85 you're welcome!

Thanks mytake owner!

[myTake Owner]

can you please teach these other men how to think logically and critically😧

[RedThread]

I've tried doing that for many years on this site. Denial is a powerful thing though.. Lol

[Aeliuz]

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, except that being nice is expected. Politeness is expected. Don't confuse being nice with being polite.

[jacquesvol]

Nice guys are bitter assholes in denial, bitter entitled douchebags? Sure. :D

[jacquesvol]

Denial is a is a long river in Africa, no?

[RedThread]

@jacquesvol I meant some are not all are. The nice guys who only think they're nice but aren't actually nice.

[Bluemax]

I was going to write a response to this, but you've pretty much said what I wanted to, Red.
I don't agree with you that "nice guys" (as opposed to nice guys) "push women right into the arms of the bad guys." Women should take responsibility for picking bad men, as surely as men should take responsibility for picking bad women.

I also wonder, at times, how many truly good men's sadness at rejection is misinterpreted as being "bitter and entitled."

@ManuelMarquez
He makes a good point in the questions he asks. I do wonder if some, perhaps many, women misinterpret sadness and disappointment as "entitlement." I seem to think they do, since I know many sad, disappointed people, men and women, who are my age and are still virgins. Not a single one of them believes they are entitled to sex. It doesn't make them less sad or disappointed, but they know they aren't entitled to it.

[RedThread]

@Bluemax oh yeah personal responsibility is something I agree with as well. If someone chooses a bad partner despite all the bad vibes that's on them.

[ManuelMarquez]

@RedThread why did you mention me?

[RedThread]

@ManuelMarquez I didn't... Bluemax did

[ManuelMarquez]

@Bluemax I agre

[XRabbitHeartX]

Great take :)

The irony is, nobody makes a big deal out of the guys who fall for "bad girls" and then make them feel bad for it. Plenty of guys are in love with "bad" girls who don't give them the time of day, hurt them, abuse them and aren't nice to them. However it's never a thing to tell those guys that they are wrong for dating those girls and you never hear anyone attacking guys for not going after the nice girls when sometimes they actually do end up ignoring the nice girls for the not so nice girls. I see it daily on this website. Guys giving plenty of attention to girls who clearly don't give a crap about them.

Just another bad double standard. But well written take and you get me.

[myTake Owner]

lol you are my twin!!😁

[heavensgift2girls]

Most of the guys that end up falling for bad girls, are just desperate guys taking whatever woman will accept him. Women are far more often the gender that has the option of being able to be picky about the type of person they date. That is why telling guys they are dating the wrong sort of girls does no good. The kind of girl he really wants has too many options to consider him.

[XRabbitHeartX]

@heavensgift2girls yet another person living in the delusional land where they think women can all be picky and date whoever they want. Reality is many many women struggle to find dates ans also end up settling.

[XRabbitHeartX]

I really wish guys could be a girl for one day. I think they would all then get rid of these false perceptions about women.

[heavensgift2girls]

It isn't that all women have options, and the no man does. I am talking about on average it being far more likely that a woman will have more options than guys. Women are the ones that get pregnant. As a result they have evolved to be pickier about who they give a chance to. This is the reason why guys are more likely to feel desperate to get any woman.

If women weren't designed to be so picky, then we would see as many guys being sexualized in the media as there are women.. Women are clearly not so desperate they feel the need to flood the inbox of random guys with naked pictures of themselves hoping to be seen as sexy.

[XRabbitHeartX]

@heavensgift2girls nothing of what you say justifies the fact that women get shit for not wanting to date Mr Nice Guy while guys don't. Humans have choices. It's a choice if a guy wants to send dick pics to every girl on the internet. Just like it's a choice if a guy or girl chooses to go after someone who treats them poorly. Nobody is forced to do anything. It just so happens that one gender gets hate for not picking a certain type while the other gets a free pass.

[Scrambledagain]

Fully agree, many men can't choose their women, like women can choose men. Men have to grab what they can get (which isn't much hence the millions on Ashley Madison, the amount of prostitution, etc). Women have this problem: they have to sift out potential suitors to weed out the bad ones from the good. Also a tough task. The only difference is, the bad guys get laid in this process and the good guys go home with their dick in their hand. I don't think a guy stands a chance unless he hits all 3 zones well: be relatively good looking, be relatively well off and have a reasonable outgoing personality.

[heavensgift2girls]

"Humans have choices." Yes, but those choices aren't always the same choices. While a woman does always have a choice not to send naked pictures of herself, most men don't have the choice to ignore women that will treat him well, and go after someone that will treat him poorly. Women more than men, are far more likely to ignore all the partners that would treat her well, then complain she can't find a nice guy. Both genders can have it tough, but in different ways. The lives of men and women are not carbon copies of each other, with some sexist double standards thrown in. You really don't understand anything about the different hurdles men and women face.

[XRabbitHeartX]

Yeah I'm not really going to waste my time any further by even commenting cause some men are just completely living in la la land where women magically get asked out all the time and have thousands of guys wanting to date us and be with us. Guess I missed out on that golden ticket. It's these delusional fairytales that guys believe that makes them become bitter guys who are so far off from reality that they fail to hear any female who tells them they are misguided. I'm out.

[zagor]

If most guys could be a girl for one day they would sit home and fondle themselves...

[XRabbitHeartX]

@zagor Agreed.

[Mysterio421]

Well, reading this take and the maturity of the owner and the comments, I can infer that she already has been with bad boys or wants to be. Let's sort this out right now. Before I begin, I would like to state that I don't give a rat's ass if you can't accept the truth. I am going to say it how it is. Enough of the politically correct bullshit. No one is forced to date ANYONE. You PICK them and choose to be or not be involved. Sure, there are some nice guys that pretend to get laid. I partially blame the brainwashing of Disney, single mothers who raised them like that, and the radical feminists. There are however guys who are genuinely nice. I don't see what's wrong with that. I hear girls say all the time that they want nice guys, but generally it's the opposite. They like guys who treat them like crap. Like it's come game. Just sit back and look at life and interactions between people. A lot of people don't care about their future. Just about the current here and now. To me that is ignorant. Then when their future is catastrophe they become desperate and start pointing fingers. Generally girls (more in the U. S. and western civilization) are in this category. This is why I will never date another American girl again. Sure there are exceptions but generally that's how it is. They go for the bad boys and the players. Meanwhile the nice guy or poindexter can't even get a date. When the girls hit their late 20's and early 30's they become desperate and look for the nice guy as the biological clock is ticking (Check out Craigslist ads for proof and humor). The guy who was "nice" and rejected now is looking pretty good. He is getting girls left and right. These nice guys should say no to a lot of them as a lot of these desperate women look for financial stability. We then hear the famous line "Where are the good men" or "All men are jerks". That's wrong. They were there all this time, but they were ignored and rejected. What amazes me the most is how some girls bitch about the bad boy that THEY chose to be with and try to change. WHO PICKED HIM? Nice guys aren't entitled to dates sure, but your not entitled to be taken on dates and your baggage taken care of when your desperate or when your burned. It's time people take responsibility for their actions. Any decision has a consequence whether you likely or not. There is no running from it. Anyone is free to choose and do what they please, but keep in mind of the consequences. @Owner, before you start respond, think.

[RationalLioness]

I was with you until your bigotry. Anyone can date who they want and their choice of dates is usually their fault unless---as you pointed out--someone tricks them. But just because someone is a "nice" guy does not mean anything. If a lot of women are NOT attracted to the nice guy (whether he's a pushover or confident), WHY should she date him if she does not want to?

[TheGuyFromMiddleEast]

@RationalLioness for the sake of stability and security she'll eventually need? He's trying to say, "you watn stability, go for the ones that will provide it while you're still young and they're still hungry for attention. Ignoring them while they needed attention to only come to them after some time, when they were nothing but hurt, just for the sake of your very own well-being is not 'nice' ".

[Mysterio421]

@RationalLioness Again, I personally don't care what you do. But don't be crying when the bad boy beats you or does this and that. It's like being warned not to put your hand on a stove and you still do it. You just know some things aren't right, but you still do it anyway. It's not me your affecting. It's you. So go ahead. Your just helping me weed out the girls that are a we're of my time or to what some guys call (booty call material). I don't understand how I had "bigotry". I clearly said that there are consequences to any choice. by the way, you can't be necessarily tricked. There has to be a sign or something. Even if you get tricked, why do you let it happen to you and why do you stay?

[dartmaul15]

sure, getting burnt once on an asshole is okay, but honestly, if you keep going after the wrong people, you'll be judged for it. Just saying.

And oftentimes "nice" is one of the traits usually found in proper guys. Mind you, that does NOT mean "fake nice" you often find in guys complaining about women only going for assholes, and hurr durr durr.

Stick to your preferences, but make damn sure to see through the lies some guys are telling! And don't try to change the bad boys, it won't happen. Look for a guy that fits all your desired traits, AND is nice! THAT is how you look for a nice guy, a nice guy that's compatible with you.

last but not least, remember than NOBODY force you to date a nice guy. And NOBODY force guys to commit either. So don't demand the bad boys to commit, don't demand the nice guys to settle for you when you've had your spin on the cock-carousel. Because just lik you have the freedom to say "no" to them, they also have the freedom to say "no" to you.
And you can scream PC as much as you want, but you will be judged for being promiscuous, just like they are judged for being nice.

basically what @TheGuyFromMiddleEast said in his comment.

[Mysterio421]

I love this. Couldn't agree more.

[GoodManDave]

Yeah, I always hated the nice guy comments from people. That's what they say when they don't know what else to say because they don't really know me.

I'm kind, and that's a big deal. Being kind is a part of why I pick friends, but it's not a prerequisite. Being an ass, that's different. Being a jerk is different; I have no interest in remaining friends with a guy who's constantly nasty. BUT - While I like kindness, it's not the thing I want to know about you. Will you be the person who will back me up? Will you be honest if you think I'm way off out of line.

I'm kind. I'm at times, a recovering nice guy. But I don't want that to be my thing. I want to be the funny guy, or the guy who will be there for the right people, or a great guy. I want to be the guy who will not be so nice if you're way out of line and we all know it.

I've heard the line in business "So if others claim what you claim, what sets you apart? Why hire you?" and If a person hearing my "pitch" can say "So? Aren't you SUPPOSED to do that?" Then it's not a good "bargaining chip" or way to promote yourself. Same in dating. I hate the idea of whining about "Well, I don't beat my women" "Well... goodie for you. You get a cookie."

Now, yes, being kind.. that should happen. And sometimes genuine kindness can be rare. But... just because a lot of people are manipulative and are kind for that reason (or aren't kind at all), that doesn't mean that because you're genuinely kind, that that means automatic dating.

I stopped categorizing myself as nice when I was about 12 or so. But I do hate how that's something people who don't know me or know me a little categorize me; but I just role my eyes and move on. That's on them that they don't get it, or me, and I'm not going to waste a lot of time with that.

[Mysterio421]

Same here. These nice guy/bad boy terms and issue is very annoying. It's just a waste of time, but you summed it up.

[Dandeus]

I've said it repeatedly on here. If the best thing you can say about yourself is that you're nice, you're doing it wrong.

I tell you I've been to a few new restaurants recently and you ask me what I thought of them. The first restaurant, I tell you the food is delicious and the decor was stylish. The second restaurant, I tell you the food and atmosphere was "nice." Which restaurant are you going to visit next?

Nice is just ok, alright. Nice is boring. Nice is bland. You're also SUPPOSED to be nice, so expecting special attention for doing what is expected of you is pretty silly. If the best you can say is that you're nice, you're saying you have no talents, no skills, no interesting hobbies. If you were funny, you'd say you were funny. If you were artistic, you'd call yourself creative. If you were successful in business, you'd call yourself driven and focused. Nice-as-descriptor is the least-worst thing you can say about yourself before you start getting into negatives... on that scale of satisfaction from 1 to 5, nice is the 3... no opinion, not applicable.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

tl;dr

i agree with the fact girls shouldn't be obligated to date "nice guys". we all agree on that... pretty much everyone (almost). the problem is that when girls date "bad boys" or assholes and constantly get burned, cheated on, rejected, etc, and start wondering why "guys are assholes", "guys always cheat", "guys change", 80% of us just look at y'all like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAkJjPcofck

and just sit and stare like
https://makeagif.com/g1fHVp

as if it was some kind of master secret when essentially everyone else knew from the start he was pretty much just tryina hit and quit with you. no one hates you for making poor choices. let's get that straight. people get mad that you make poor choices, seem to not learn and blame it on the guys when the you actively choose the wrong people and ignore the right ones.

[Other_Tommy_Wiseau]

the second link looks like this:
https://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-26-2015/g1fHVp.gif

[the_rake]

I agree. Women should not be expected to date a man on the single proviso that he's nice. It's perfectly fair that they want a man in their league confidence and attractiveness wise.

BUT women should also be able to distinguish between (inwardly) confident / attractive men that are unsuccessful because they are not as aggressive or manipulative as their (outwardly) confident / attractive male counterpart. (Note: some outwardly confident men can be nice also, I just focus on the inwardly confident men because they are less likely to get noticed).

I would say that you're entitled to your preferences and should be free to date whoever you want to. However, society would probably be a nicer place and you women would probably be much happier, if more of you tried to find men who fit the bill of confidence (both inwards and outwards), attractiveness AND niceness.

Meanwhile, you should have a better radar for scoping out the confident / attractive men who are also aggressive / pushy or otherwise manipulative.

[Rloco]

What the "nice guys" need to understand us that being nice doesn't entitle you to anything. I'm not a nice guy I'm a good person. I do nice things to make someone happy and want nothing on return. All I can do is wait for the person who likes me for who I am. I want to date someone who is happy being with me not forced to. I can't say a girl will be happier being with me that's up to her.

[myTake Owner]

and this is why men like you will ALWAYS earn my respect.

[hellionthesage]

NIce guys don't think their entitled to anything, they are frustrated because women continue to claim they want a nice guy then ignore said nice guy for a guy who is a for lack of a better term an "asshole". Repeatedly being told one thing while repeatedly seeing the opposite makes them very frustrated and angry because they are being lied to and manipulated not because they feel entitled. Those nice guys that you talk about are what happen after years of rejection years of being manipulated and lied to. Its not really suprising they would become enraged. I have seen many nice guys and they are nice in all aspects of their life (unfortunatly its usually to their own detriment) not just with women ergo one would have to conlcude that its not some evil manipulative attempt at getting women (even if it was it wouldn't be very affective and would be quickly abandoned). The Evil nice guy idea is perpetuated by women who can't take responsibility for their own choices.

[Rloco]

This isn't about girls picking guys over others. Girls are going to like who they like. They can't make themselves like anyone. Be the best version of you and if a girl doesn't like you either be friends or move on. It's that simple.

[genuinlysensitive]

We know it doesn't "entitle" us to anything, that is a term used by "assholes" who don't like nice guys. "OMG he thinks he's entitled or something". What "Assholes" need to realize is that putting down other people doesn't mean you are somehow magically a better person for it. Quite the opposite.

[heavensgift2girls]

This has to do with the choice of wording women are using. Women keep complaining that they can't find a nice guy. Often women even lie and say "All I want is a guy that will treat me right". This makes it sound like the solution is simply pointing out a nice guy to the woman, and that will make her happy. Most women aren't being honest about what traits are most important, and those are the traits that make her sexually desire a man.

Men are far more honest about our priorities in what we want in a woman. Guys admit that we want a girl we are sexual attracted to, but that also treats us well. We aren't pretending we only care about her being nice. This honesty makes us sound more shallow than women, when in fact it is the exact same thing women are really looking for but aren't admitting.

[tyber1]

Exactly. Many of these 'manipulative' nice guys are really just naive, confused men who believe those lies. When you get told that women are attracted to kindness, it makes sense that some of the less socially experienced guys would try displaying their kindness as much as possible to 'win her over'. I've been that guy before and I wasn't trying to be manipulative. I was just displaying the traits that I thought women would like. And I did eventually get frustrated that it wasn't working. The reality is that these guys are the ones being manipulated by being lied to.

[heavensgift2girls]

@tyber1 I agree. Calling them manipulative is unfair. It only makes sense that people will show you the traits they think you will like. It is just fashionable to bash on the unpopular guys for some reason.

[Stephen10]

This just shows the stupidity and selfishness of western women. Western women have destroyed love and commitment between the sexes. Women have every right to reject nice guys and date ass holes and bad boys, but the end result is a society of broken families, high divorce rates, infidelity, single mothers, and fatherless children, and lots of misery and depression. It's no surprise that the good men are insecure and are giving up on women. Society is beyond repair. The brainwashing of feminism and the media has done too much brain damage to women. It's too late to repair decades of brainwashing. I've just had to accept that I'll be single forever and instead I have focused on my job and have saved thousands of pounds and will be starting up my own business and will look for other things to make me happy. Women will make their own bed.

[myTake Owner]

this just shows pure ignorance and self pity. A woman had every right to choose what she feels from. the heart, if she''s not into the nice guy then how is that a sin? if she's not into the bad. guy how is that a sin? That's because a woman didon't have feelings for the nice guy it has automatically made. her bitch because people aasume that she''s into nice guys. if there's no compatibility with a guy them all of a sudden she's labelled as something else. I gibe my applaud to those men who took rejection as part of daily life and didn't dwell in self pity and changed themselves to suit other women.

[myTake Owner]

be single if you want to be single but don't go around screaming hatred because things didn't go your way. "Women will make their own bed" speak for yourself Bro.

[Stephen10]

Like I said, a woman has every right to reject nice guys and date ass holes. But the end result is a broken society and good men will just go their own way. It all comes down to stupidity and selfishness of western women. Sleep with dogs, wake with fleas.

[myTake Owner]

okay so you're saying that nice men are nothing but butthurt human beings. cool story

[Stephen10]

Nope. Never said that.

[myTake Owner]

you make it sound like it

[jacquesvol]

"the stupidity and selfishness of western women."
Then I stopped reading your misogynistic rant.

[Stephen10]

@jacquesvol Truth always hurts doesn't it.

[TheGuyFromMiddleEast]

Sure. The problem starts when same women start to think that guys have to offer them commitment. The problem starts when women get hurt and accuse the guy they have been dating by being not nice to them. Furthermore, it starts when down the path nice guys don't want them anymore after years while they feel entitled to the nice guy's affection.

Stop whining about how your boyfriends treat you wrong, how "it is actually okay to sleep around" and noone will tell you to date a nice guy. Trust, if you stop whining, noone will care. And you can do whatever you want.

Oh oh, I forgot one. And this is my favorite. The problem starts when a single mom in her early to mid-twenties whines about how guys don't want to date. Guess what honey, if you had dated a nice guy to begin with, you wouldn't need someone to date after you give birth to a kid.

[heavensgift2girls]

This is so true. I never hear older women with several kids complain about not wanting to be forced to date a nice guy. They are the ones complaining they can't find a nice guy anymore.

[Marinepilot]

AMen. You're 100% right !

[myTake Owner]

@heavensgift2girls I don't know what to scares me. the fact that there's so many butthurt men on here or the fact that since I said a woman is obligated to date the guy that she feels attracted too the so called "men" on hear are spitting hatred. I'm just going to awkwardly walk away and assume that the age that most people claim to be is all a lie because of it were true... no comment.

[heavensgift2girls]

(so called "men") Everyone knows what you are doing. When men don't agree with you, you just make the assertion they aren't real men in an attempt to shame them into being quiet because you know you can't match their logic.

Most guys don't care that women don't want to date "nice guys". It is just that women commonly like to complain about there being a lack of nice guys when that is clearly not what they are looking for. We aren't spitting hatred, we are just calling them out on their bullshit. You are whining because people want you to end up with someone that will treat you well. There are no older women agreeing with you. Most of them know better than to complain about people trying to set them up with a guy that will treat her well, which is the point I was making. You are acting like a spoiled child that doesn't want to eat her veggies while everyone else tries to tell her, how good they are for her.

[myTake Owner]

@heavensgift2girls wrong again. The reason why I'm sayingthe men on here are pathetic is because they think that by throwing insults to a woman and literally giving no respect is justified for them. It's pathetic and if you feel like you don't like whata being said then by all means leave but please don't think just cause we don't know eachow other on a personal level that gives you the right to disrespect others and then claim that it's logic. Secondly the majority of you seem to forget that this is an opinion of what I think, you bringing your personal issues on here has nothing to do with me whatsoever. Thirdly I was simply arguing the fact that a woman is not obligated to date a guy that she doesn't have any feelings for. So I don't know why you're telling me that In whining because from what I've written I just wrote what was on my mind. Don't make your personal problems my fault. I didn't tell the women in your life to treat you like trash and mislead you

[myTake Owner]

@heavensgift2girls and for the millionth time a woman rejecting a nice man doesn't make her a bitch in any way. There are different reasons for different circumstances but you wouldn't know that because you refuse to listen to what other people are stating so you use idioms to justify the fact that you're actually just someone who wants people to applaud him because he has "logic" sorry mate you claim to be in your 30s yet you expect "kids" to eat your veggies. no kid in their right mind is going to eat veggies that come from someone who doesn't have good intentions.

[heavensgift2girls]

Firstly, you said "so called men" That isn't the same as calling them pathetic. That is making the claim that you don't find them to be real men and you know that. Secondly you seem to forget that this is an opinion of what we think, you bringing your personal issues on here has nothing to do with us whatsoever. Thirdly you say "I was simply arguing" yes you were arguing. No guy on here thinks you should be forced to date someone you aren't attracted to, yet you keep wanting to start an argument about it do to your personal issues.

All people are doing is trying to explain to you why people think women are constantly looking for a "nice guy" and you are taking it as a violation on your rights as to how you are allowed to date. You are whining about something no one even disagreed about.

[myTake Owner]

@heavensgift2girls yes they are a pathetic excuse of the male species because I don't respect people who insult people and claim their arguing. "No guy thinks a girl should be forced to date a nice guy"wrong. keep scrolling and you will see what I'm talking about. It got to a point where a man in his mid 30s said all women deserve to get beaten and hurt. what is that to you? good logic?

[heavensgift2girls]

I don't even know why you brought the word "bitch" into this. I sure never said it. All I said is that there are reasons why women are encouraged to date nice guys, that don't evolve trying to take away your right to choose for yourself.

[heavensgift2girls]

He is a bad example and you know it. He is clearly a troll or crazy person. If you look hard enough you can always find some extremest in any group. He doesn't represent men as a whole which was clearly your purpose in writing this. That would be like me claiming feminists want to kill all men, then quoting a single crazy feminist as proof that I am not paranoid. Men don't care who you date. Some may get hurt when rejected, but that is the same for both genders.

[myTake Owner]

@heavensgift2girls wrong again. take a look at 95 percent of the posts specifically by guys on here. Men do care because if they didn't i wouldn't be handling a bunch of men who got butthurt that a relationship didn't work out and assume that all women chase after bad guys. therefore here comes the logic... wait for it... Why don't we throw insult , drown in self pity and take our shit on people. Might as well delete this post. people don't know know how to be mature. I give my applaud to one guy whom I literally learnt from because he spoke with respect and dignity. cheers.

[heavensgift2girls]

Just because guys are commenting doesn't mean it is for the reasons you think. Your question implies women are being forced to do something they don't want to do. A lot of guys take that seriously. We have more respect for women than that and are going to feel the need to speak up about that.

Other guys want to point out that is fine with them, as long as the women isn't going to have a double standards and feel that men should be forced into a commitment with a woman he doesn't want to be in a commitment with.

Other guys want to say they are fine with you dating whomever you want, as long as you don't complain about choosing a bad partner later. We don't want to hear someone complain about choosing the wrong partner, over and over again. It gets old.

[heavensgift2girls]

None of those groups of guys care who you date. I think your complaint was suppose to be about a small number of guys, the "nice guys" getting hurt over being rejected. Those guys don't understand how to attract a woman, so keep getting hurt so yes they do whine about it. Just like women whine when the guy they like doesn't like her. It is natural to be hurt when you are rejected.

If you wanted to change things, then make a take on how nice guys can develop the traits that will make women want them. That way they wouldn't think women only want assholes.

But then what do I know. I am not kissing your butt and agreeing with everything a woman is saying, so am am automatically being disrespectful, and a pathetic or so called man and therefore any nice guy reading this will think he doesn't have a right to his own opinion without being an asshole. Hence why so many of them think their only option is either a doormat or asshole.

[Anonymous]

Of course you can date whoever you want. However if you knowingly go for a jerk or bad boy, you should give up your right to complain later if you end up hurt. I mean there's girls out there who get physically abused and beat up by their boyfriends and yet go back to them over and over again. That's what the nice guys have trouble understanding. If you just go for toxic guys, you're somewhat responsible for your own situation. But many women will do this and then blame ALL men for what they suffered. Can't say nice guys have no reason to be disgusted when they see that.

[myTake Owner]

firstly there are reasons why a woman can go back to the abuser it could be self esteem, literally being scared to leave or the heart want what it wants. It literally disgusts me that people judge from the outside but don't have any clue what's going on behind closed doors because you literally don't know how the shoe fits. If that's how "nice" guys feel well then weren't "nice guys" to begin with. Real good guys would NEVER judge a woman by her actions let alone look down upon her. A real good man would always stick by her if not relationship wise then friendship wise and move on. Something most men in society can't even do. y'all play the "I'm such a nice guy" card and then when a woman shows her gratitude all hell breaks loose because you weren't able to get her to bed. Secondly there are so many men going around wearing this nice guy mask that literally the best women out there get trapped into he'll. stop judging and understand peoples scenarios in different aspects of life.

[hellionthesage]

No one has told women they have to date a nice guy. The issue is women claim to want a nice guy then said nice guy finds out that no, in fact women don't want a nice guy they want an asshole. The issue is women lying about what they want so the guy thinks if he is nice and respectful women will be more willing to go out with him only to find out again and again that this is not the case resulting in him being bitter since he did exactly as women said they wanted him to only to be rejected again and again. If you have an issue criticise women for lying about what they want not men who are pissed off because women tell him they want one thing when really they want the exact opposite. Its incredibly frequent that women claim to want the nice guy then run off and have sex with the asshole only to come back and talk about how they just want a nice guy all the while ignoring the nice guy. Stop complaining stop saying you want something that you don't and this issue will resolve itself.

[myTake Owner]

but then why would the guy change himself to fit a minority of a women's perspective? if the man stopped playing the victim card and realised that by hin being himself whether a bunch of women like it or not well then there's nothing to gain or lose. My full respect go out those guys who stuck to their personality and didn't change to suit a woman's needs. instead of pointing out fingers and dwelling in self pity because the opinion of others. do what you have to, to make yourself happy. no one asked half of those men to be clones of what women want them to be and no asked women to choose what they think suits them so. people literally need to grow up.

[hellionthesage]

Why do you think a nice guy changed for you? Most nice guys are nice to start with then become bitter as they are told how every body likes nice guys but then walk all over them, they get told how if they are nice women will respond so they continue to be themselves only to find out that no this is not the case. The problem is again, women. They claim to want a nice guy, they walk past dozens of nice guys to find that one asshole sleep with said asshole then cry to any one who will listen about how that guys are assholes and they just want a nice guy then proceed to push aside all the nice guys to find that one asshole in the room and the cycle continues. Nice guys are nice because they are nice, women claiming they want a nice guy simply causes them to focus more on that aspect. Eventually after being treated poorly for long enough a lot of nice guys treat women like crap and then they get a girlfriend so in fact they do change but they change to an asshole not a nice guy.

[hellionthesage]

As for victim cards, the fact is again women claiming they like nice guys then treating said nice guy like crap. Its not that they are playing the victim card its that they are frustrated because women do not admit to what they want but instead play games. If he knew that women didn't want a nice guy he would be able to come to terms with that but the fact is he is being told one thing and treeted another. Now again as for victim cards this is what women play and in all probability so have you. You immediatley decided that nice guys where not nice, this way you can justify not liking them ie your the victim they are the manipulator. This again is what infuriates so many nice guys, no body cares what kind of guy you go after but at least be honest about it. So many women find that asshole sleep with him then complain that he is an asshole, its like kicking a dog and being suprised he bit you. You find the asshole guy you want and he cheats on you like he did with every other girl he was

[hellionthesage]

with then you complain and cry that he cheated on you. This is what is frustrating for nice guys. Its obnoxious and pathetic. If you chose to be with an asshole and he treats you like crap don't play the victim, you made that descision and you must live with the consequences. Its about women not admitting to what they want and refusing to take responsibility for their choices. So again you want this issue resolved simply be honest about what you want and take responsibility for your descision instead of trying to portray yourself as a victim (you know the whole thing where you complain that your asshole boyfriend is an asshole or that your boyfriend who cheated and treated his past girlfriends like shit is also doing the same to you. Or the part where you claim the nice guy isn't nice because otherwise you would have to admit that you really don't like nice guys who treat you well so it must be their fault not yours).

[hellionthesage]

So as I stated before, stop complaining stop saying you want something that you don't and this issue will resolve itself. (by you I am reffering to the empirical you ie women not necessarily you specificly)

[VampireEmpress]

I agree with u that people should take responsibility for their bad relationships... so that applies to nice guys right? they allow themselves to need some womens' attention so badly that they get treated like crap. there are lots of nice girls too, but guys like to go after bitches and mean girls a lot.

[tyber1]

The issue here is the deceit. These guys are being lied to and are doing what they are told is right.

[Bandit74]

I think a big issue is people being too pc and saying shit like looks don't matter" or "all I want is a good guy".

People take that litteraly but in reality looks and excitement matter more.

Being hot, exciting, asshole gets you more girls and easier sex than being average looking, reliable, and nice.

looks and excitement carry more weight but girls never admit that and thus guys become confused and bitter.

[hellionthesage]

@VampireEmpress Absolutely but as i stated the issue is that they are being told one thing and the inverse is true. Its not so much that they are using beign nice to get women but rather they are nice people in general. They are lied to that is the issue if we are upfront about things then the issue would resolve itself. The problem lies with women saying they want a nice guy, fine if its true, but it rarely if ever is. That is the issue if women are honest about things then yes these men would have to own the fact that women don't like them because they are nice but the problem is they are not given the opportunity, its the lying part that is the issue not the women not liking nice guys part that is the issue.

[hellionthesage]

@tyber1 Exactly. Its the repeated lie that convinces them not to change that is the issue.

[hellionthesage]

@Bandit74 Precisely. Its the deciet, the refusal to admit what they want that is the issue that is why its frustrating to see these questiones because they essentially attack the nice guy and blame them for the lies (many) women tell. If they are upfront and honest then this would be a nonissue. I don't understand why women can't figure out that a guy doesn't need to be an asshole to be confident and strong but that doesn't mean I have an issue with them being into assholes. Same reason why I don't understand guys who like domineering women, its not my cup of tea but again as long as everybody is upfront it doesn't matter. Its the deciet that is the issue.

[RachelBrigs]

I don't understand men who think that if they're nice (and most of them label themselves as nice without even being unusually kind or caring) that's all that should count. They don't have to be intelligent or funny or charming or attractive or deep or any trait that someone looks for in a bf/gf. They're nice isn't that all that matters?

And a lot of these self proclaimed nice guys aren't even nice at all. A lot are complete jack asses. If you go around going on about how nice you are you're probably not nice. Especially if you think that entitles you to something

[cjmtherfcker]

Women don't miss out on dates for not being funny or charming or confident. And those things are typically meaningless to you being a good partner. Far less than honesty, loyalty, respect, caring , unselfish lover. You know the things that really matter in a relationship. Yet women never look for this until they make sur your confident and charismatic and funny. Shallow

[RachelBrigs]

@cjmthefcker because a lot of guys will date a girl soely bc she's attractive. If you don't care if your potential girlfriend has a good personality besides being nice then obviously all you're taking into consideration is her face and body. That makes y'all shallow. But regardless that's not all or even most guys. Just a lot.

[RachelBrigs]

@cjmtherfcker

[RachelBrigs]

I won't ever date someone just cause they won't cheat on me and they respect me. I need to be able to laugh with them, both be interested in doing the same stuff, have deep conversations, etc etc. A lack of bad traits doesn't make someone worth anyone's time. You need the good traits too.

[genuinlysensitive]

Nice guys don't say "I'm nice and that is all that the woman should want" we wonder why a guy who treats women well, like us, has so much trouble getting women when the men who literally treat them like shit, ignore them, insult them, cheat on them, lead them on, get all the women.

[cjmtherfcker]

right it s guys jobs to keep women entertained or there worthless got it. you will never convince me they aren't shallow. Also some people just are not naturally entertaining etc, why should that be held against them. Especially if they have other more important qualities. Reality is women expect far to much. if I find a girl attractive, and she's nice and respectful to me, we have great sex and she's faithful what more do I really need. Entertaining and charisma should be at the bottom of the list of qualities people look for. I personally feel women focus on these qualities as an indicator of status which just means there all fucking shallow

[RachelBrigs]

@cjmthefcker I can turn around and say you're shallow for needing good sex. Isn't that more "shallow" than wanting someone who's funny?

But the truth is, neither is shallow. I don't want to be "entertained" so much as I want someone I can have fun with, someone who has fun with me. How is that shallow? Are you friends with people you sit in a room with and get beyond bored?

I don't know about you, but I want my boyfriend to be my best friend, and no one is best friends with someone they don't have fun with. I don't understand how that's a shallow trait to look for. Its a personality trait. How is valuing humor more shallow than valuing good sex?

there's nothing with wanting either in my opinion.

[RachelBrigs]

Oops @cjmtherfcker

[RachelBrigs]

@genuinlysensitive actually I've heard a lot of guys explicitly say that they're nice and that's all that should matter.

Assholes don't get ALL the women. A lot of assholss get girls. A lot of good guys get girls. A lot oh assholes can't find a girlfriend and a lot of good guys can't find a girlfriend.

A lot of straight up bitches get bfs but girls who treat guys nicely don't sit around bitching.

When a girl is abusive to her boyfriend it reflects badly on all women. If he stays with her he's a sweetheart.
When a guy is abusive to his girlfriend it reflects badly on all women. If she stays with him she's a stupid shallow masochistic bitch.

[genuinlysensitive]

Ok so assholes only get technically an. Overwhelming majority of women. The fact you are more concerned woth symantics than the fact is very troubling. I still have yet to get an answer from wome on WHY SO many choose assholes.

[RachelBrigs]

@genuinlysensitive nothing I said was about semantics. At all.

You're saying the majority of guys with a girlfriend are assholes. Um how do you arrive to this conclusion?

You're just labeling guys who have what you want assholes bc it makes you feel better about yourself.

[genuinlysensitive]

I never said anything about all men who have gfs, you either have poor reading comprehension skills, or you're just putting words in my mouth in a poor attempt to troll. I still have yet to get an answer from anyone about WHY so many women choose these assholes.

[RachelBrigs]

@genuinlysensitive okay so you're saying the majority of girls date assholes?
" Ok so assholes only get technically an. Overwhelming majority of women. "

It simply isn't true. Some women end up with assholes and some men end up with complete bitches. Tell me why so many guys do end up dating bitchy girls?
I couldn't really tell you. That depends on the individual. Some people may date someone like that because they're just as bad themselves, or they might have low self esteem, or maybe they thought that the person they're with was better than they are only to find out that they're not, but at that point they don't want to leave them. Who knows. Depends on the person

[genuinlysensitive]

Right so as I said either your reading comprehension is poor or you are intensionally trying to put words in my mouth in a poor attempt to troll.

[RachelBrigs]

@genuinlysensitive either you're not very bright or you're purposely pretending you're not saying what you obviously said.

[genuinlysensitive]

Ah so you're just trying to put words in my mouth. Thats disappointing most trolls do a way better job than that.

[RachelBrigs]

@genuinlysensitive 😂😂😂😂😂 you're like a child. by the way, its "genuinely. " that's been bugging me

[tiredoftrying]

I am not sure if anyone else mentioned it but I have found that most "nice guys" are not actually nice anyway. They are some of the biggest jerks who are convinced they are nice and use it as an excuse as to why women won't date them. I love nice guys (the real nice guys, not the pretenders) but being nice is not enough. If I am not physically attracted to a guy then I will never see him as anything more than a friend. I don't know why in our society we women are expected to forget about our sexual needs and then to add insult to injury even the least physically attractive guys expect to get super models. It's so ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

I think females need to stop telling guys they're nice when they really mean "I don't hate you or anything" It's misleading. I made that mistake when I was younger. The guy wasn't otherworldly nice - he treated his mom like a maid, he was self righteous and judgmental, he told racist jokes and thought women should wait on him. Furthermore, we had little in common outside of a few superficial activities.

What I really meant was "I appreciate that you're infatuated with me right now and trying hard, but we aren't a great fit." Because I felt bad, I lavished him with compliments about how great a guy he was, when he was just a normal guy with good and bad points. I shouldn't have said so much trying to soften the blow.

[KENKONG]

Going to explain where nice guys go wrong with women:

1) Women get with men because they look up to men. Men are women's own personal superhero. Confident, strong, and decisive. Hence why guys who lift do so well with women. Women wants a man who she can look up to and go god damn this guy is better than me. Men who act nice, white knight or act as women's lap dog/attack dogs are the exact opposite.

2) Nice guys and white knights worship women. The exact opposite of how a man/female relationship works. They've been fed a lie that women like this by women, society and their mothers and get bitter when things don't work out for them.

[RationalLioness]

1) I don't look up to men. Why would I? Because he has a dick?

2) Relationships work in many ways. There is not one set dynamic for it due to the varying amount of personality traits.

[Kira88]

Good take. I'm trying to change this shift by not calling guys nice. They're nice because they want something from us, regardless of what that is the bad boys start off nice as well just because others don't see what they're like with us doesn't mean they're bad from the start. Nice is a way of saying not attracted to you but don't want to be mean about it. I'd rather be honest and go for what I want, not what someone else decides I need because it didn't work out with someone else.

[Aeon_Flux_21]

Man you got some nice teeth. I bet your breath smells very nice. I'm thinking maybe a fresh minty lettuce scent to your breath?

[evenlift]

No one is forcing you to date 'nice guys'. Expressing a negative opinion about your actions isn't force.

As for this general subject, I have already written the definitive myTake:
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a22747-women-need-to-stop-whining-about-nice-guys

[the_rake]

Putting aside the question about the superiority of selfishness as a personal philosophy, I think it's fair to say that niceness alone is not a sufficient proviso (especially when that niceness is not coming from a genuine place). But, before any assumptions are made about where I stand on this, I'd like to point out that I DO believe women should be pursuing more nice men. It's just that they should not choose an aggressive or manipulative man over the nice guy when the nice guy is roughly the same attractiveness. They often do this because the aggressive man is more adept at cutting in front of the line so to speak, and they either don't notice or don't care about the tactics being used. This is where I can agree with your negative sentiment about the way women treat nice guys in spite of their also being inwardly confident and attractive.

[evenlift]

@the_rake I address the "Nicenecess is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient one" falsehood in my article.

[the_rake]

@evenlift

In that case, I can conclude that this is an ethically consistent principle only on the proviso that you as a man are willing to date a woman on the basis of personality alone. This means that other features you may consider attractive like physique, looks, confidence, etc. are not considered. In fact she could be the polar opposite of all of the factors you would typicaly consider attractive but you are wiling to date her on the basis that she is a nice person alone.

If you believe this, then I can conclude that your stance is reasonable and fair in my and other people's (subjective) opinions and that there is no hypocrisy involved in any of your judgements. If you can concede this, we can leave the discussion there. In fact, I will even applaud you on the basis that you are less shallow and have far greater ethical consistency than I do if you adopt this personal philosophy.

[evenlift]

@the_rake Where did I say that niceness is good? On the contrary, in my article, I say it is bad. However, I consider the women who criticize 'nice guys' to be bad also, worse even, because of the enormity of their hypocrisy.

[the_rake]

ok, so do you believe therefore that other features, e. g. an attractive physique, common interests, etc. are preferable to niceness? after all a truly selfish individual interested in their own survival would only pursue an individual with the best genetically darwinistic traits.

also, when you say '[e]xpressing a negative opinion about your actions isn't force' are you referring to your own negative opinions or the opinions of others if a woman prefers not to date a nice guy?

If the latter, then why mention the opinions of others (which are not your own) in this particular context?

[evenlift]

@the_rake I don't know how much more strongly I need to say this. Niceness is bad. It's not merely less good than other things.

If you're implying that personality doesn't matter if one rejects niceness, you are wrong. Personality is most important.

Yes, survival is the concern of the truly selfish individual. But, no, the objective requirements of a human life are rather different from the objective requirements of any other life.

I don't want her to date 'nice guys'. I just want her to stop being a hypocrite. I am referring to the negative opinions of those who believe that she should date 'nice guys'.

She mentioned other people's opinions as being force, which is wrong. That is why I corrected her.

[the_rake]

'If you're implying that personality doesn't matter if one rejects niceness, you are wrong. Personality is most important.'

Ok, so allow me to rephrase my initial question: would you be willing to date a woman based on personality? And how would you define a woman with a positive attributes of personality, e. g. benevolence, friendliness, compassion. Aren't you just playing a semantics game by saying that this is not 'niceness' (as the term 'niceness' is commonly defined by most ordinary people).

'the objective requirements of a human life are rather different from the objective requirements of any other life.'

If these are not survival related, could you please explain what they are. If they are survival related, then do you concede my point that reproductive fitness abilities should be the only attractive feature to a woman following your own logic about the superiority of mating selfishness?

[the_rake]

'I just want her to stop being a hypocrite.'

Perhaps you should provide a clearer explanation of why she is being a hypocrite

'She mentioned other people's opinions as being force, which is wrong. That is why I corrected her.'

I can agree that it is not force but why confuse matters by raising this side discussion which could very easily be misinterpreted as you saying it's a bad thing she avoids nice guys by anyone who does not have extremely proficient skills in the philosophy of language.

[SomeOtherGuy]

The myTake is nice, but it only holds up in the confines of it's own environment, or petridish if you will.
It has a lot of merit, but what happens when we begin to take into account the rampant and various needs in our society from a multitude of relationships.
Polyamory, monogamy, asexuality, aromanticism, social classes, and a number of other needs within a multitude of relationships that encapsulate homosexuality, heterosexuality, pansexuality and transexuality.
What of the "nice guy" then?

A person need not be "benevolent and kind" to be desirable to a partner, but there exists partners who do seek "benevolence and kindness" in a mate.

The problem with almost all mentalities I see is that people are frustrated when they offer something and no one wants it.
If all you do is make cake, and no one wants cake, don't go around telling people they need to eat your cake. Find someone who likes cake. Don't tell everyone they need to eat cake.

[SomeOtherGuy]

I'm afraid society has evolved way beyond it's most basic primitive side. Humanity is capable of supporting minds and bodies that otherwise would be destroyed or pushed out long ago.
Survival is no longer our strongest instinct. We do things that defy survival and reproduction now.

Women seek a partner that can fulfill a need. Men do the same. Even beyond the gender binary, this holds true. That need may be sex, romance, desire to be cared for, arousal, fame, wealth, strong children, love and kindness, the list goes on. And it's not usually just one thing. It's a combination of standards that change throughout ones life. What one woman may scorn, another man may become turned on for.

Just because you don't have what a woman wants, but she has what you want, doesn't mean she is wrong and you are right.
The only time you should be concerned is if it will DIRECTLY affect that persons well being.

[Imasanegirl]

I've dated, bad boys and loners. i don't want those types. I just want a nice guy. But will nice stay for good or be gone quick? I want the stay. I want to be treated nice for once. Both of the sayings are true, like attracts like and opposites attract.
But nobody is forcing you, just a suggestion.
If you don't want the nice guys, i'll take them. I just hate they're harder to find.

[myTake Owner]

I have a lot of nice guys that I'm not interested in, you can. have them.. they are truly Kings

[myTake Owner]

and they're not hard to find. stop trying to look and let the rest play into what you're looking for.

[supernerd99]

the fact you go for the extremes and that you are 20 and had many failures only talks about you not your exes... .

[Imasanegirl]

upernerd99 I like when people know my story. Because they're always wrong. I don't go for those types, I'm not picky but im not desperate either. If a guy liked me, was nice to me, funny and sweet. Then i liked him back. He'd ask me out, i said yes. Months later they always dumped me, leaving me for another girl, got bored of me, cheated on me, or they said i was just something to pass the time. If i liked guy, i felt attraction. I don't care if he was fat, short, tall, skinny, handsome, ugly, awkward, outgoing, all i cared was that he was nice. But it never lasted long. But they always came back to say sorry for hurting me, using me, they should've treated me better, i was the best girlfriend, they can't find anyone else like me, and most of them wanted to get back with me but i refused. So maybe it is me.

[genuinlysensitive]

I wish girls who wanted nice guys were easier to find too :(

[Dan2287]

Nice guy just means shy and afraid to really go after what he wants. He'll be nice, friendly, go out of his way to help when he can in hopes it makes up for the shyness and fear. Then he sees what he wants taken by someone more confident and so we are left to wonder 'I'm a nice guy, why do they always pick the other guy over me'.

I say this as a 'nice guy'. I used to get so frustrated everytime this happened but realized I don't even know the guy the girl fell for. He might seem like an ass to me but I can't really say as I truly don't even know him.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

You do realize women in their 20's hate being approached these days, right? They find guys who approach them "creepy" and "weird."

I've had better luck NOT approaching girls. I know other guys who say the same.

[genuinlysensitive]

@EnglishArtsteacher Lol, I know a few guys that should be the biggest ladies men on the planet, Oh, but they aren't because women refuse to approach, and you are probably just trolling.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

No, I'm not trolling. Girls, at least here in the United States (I can't speak for Canada), think it's "creepy" when a guy approaches them.

Women these days approach guys: It's just the guys loaded with money.

Oh, and I've known guys who have had several girlfriends who rarely or never approach girls.