Why It's Totally Fair That Men Are Expected To Put More Effort Into Dating Than Women Are (From An Evolutionary Perspective)

So men are often like “men are expected to do so much more shit to get a girlfriend! they have to pay for dates, get a good job, etc!“

Even if we disregard the fact that women do need to spend money on dates (makeup, hair, etc - not only do men care more about looks than women do in a longterm mate, but women also have higher beauty standards to live up to, due to makeup and photoshop etc), I wouldn’t actually find it unfair that men have to put more effort into “acquiring a mate.”

Why? Well, “finding a mate” is very often interconnected to reproduction, right? Well, I was just thinking the other day about how annoying it is that it seems that we have to go through so much more effort to reproduce. Pregnancy, childbirth, etc. Then I thought - well, yeah, it does require a man more effort to “acquire a mate” to reproduce with than it does for a woman. So I guess the extra effort that men have to put into “finding a mate” (and thus reproducing) helps to balance out the extra effort that women have to put into reproducing after having already found a mate.

So not only is it totally fair that men have to put more effort into finding a mate, but it would be totally unfair to expect women and men to have to put the same amount of effort into acquiring and keeping a mate, because that would be giving women a double burden & making the effort required to be put into reproduction even more unequal than it already is. (I do still think that women overall put more effort into reproduction than men do, even with the extra effort that men put into actually finding a mate. It really can’t compare to pregnancy and childbirth.)

Why It's Totally Fair That Men Are Expected To Put More Effort Into Dating Than Women Are (From An Evolutionary Perspective)

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Most Helpful Guy

  • https://a.fod4.com/misc/darth%20vader%20fuck.gif
    Mostly because this is bebasing to women and not men. From a evolutionary stand point, both men and women have to put in maximum effort. Survival of the fittest yeah? Why do women assume that this only applies to men? Women are on the evolutionary curve too. Sorry, but everybody's gotta work hard.

    • I don't care how withers ex feels about what guys or girls should do. Im going to do what I want to do and if people disagree I don't care. If people agree then thanks for the support. If the girls I'm dating doesn't like splitting the bill 50/50, then I'll find someone else. Screw all this guys do all the heavy lifting. I'm going to go 50% on everything and she Woolworths other 50%. For all those guys out there who pay for all the dates and are required to do all the heavy lifting, your sacrifice has been noted lol.

    • I am with you on this one Cheif, in the evolution cyle women have to make themselvs very attractive and beautiful this will help show their potential mates that they are healty and are able to produce very strong offspirng if we are strictly talking simple bioligy :)

Most Helpful Girl

  • This whole take sounds like an excuse to me.

    • Of course it is!
      The take owner is just going to justify every point she tries to make simply because she wants to be right. Not even a bevy of logical refutes has stopped her from trying rationalize her entitlements.

    • @Jimrat86 sounds about right

    • We have the same opinion, and the same last name.

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What Guys Said 50

  • Biologically speaking, it is NOT at ALL, in the male's best interest to have a steady, single mate!! We have several 'brains', from evolution. One of the most primal, is the 'Reptilian' brain, that focuses on basal survival needs, among these: reproduction.
    It is only with higher-level brain evolution, the mammalian, then primate, then 'human' that the concept of love, dual parental care for offspring arose.
    I'm not trying to be an A$$ here, and I don't believe this, but What does a man gain, taking a mate, rather than just the casual 'flirtations' and casual sex with willing partners? Love? Companionship? a divorce, and alimony/child support?
    I don't want children, and I am complete, by myself, as I have found what I need. I am content, alone, without a woman, or children. Why do I need to make an effort for someone I don't NEED?
    If women want some guy, then they should put in that extra effort to convince him, or persuade him, or just beguile him, with her attributes, to make him want to be that partner, having children, and whatever.
    I HATE this fake, socially-mandated behavior!! I want the woman that I like, and she likes me, because we share something, in common! She tells me when she thinks I am full of sht, and she knows I love cuddling with her and I want to be with her, because she makes my life better, and we want to be together, because we are better together, than alone, regardless of children, or the idea of a 'mate'!

  • Yes biologicly that is how it worked, however the issue is everything else ie refusing to acknowledge it and attempting to force so called "equality" while simultaneously demanding to be treated differently, either we are the same or we are different either is fine (technicly we are not the same this is provable) but its the treating women the same but also special that is the issue choose one or the other you cannot have both. Its the utter hypocricy of it that pisses people off. For instance a man put more resources into women for sex but if he is devoting all these resources to her and she is holding out then that is hypocrisy it is the singular purpose of a relationship biologicly speaking and the purpose of marriage and yet a man in a marriage is obligated to fullfill his duties as in giving his resrouces to her she is no longer obligated to fullfill her end of the deal ie reproduction/sex ergo it is hypocricy and utter bull. Choose one or the other your either the same and should be treated as such or your not in which case you shouldn't be treated the same. Again, you have to choose one or the other as they are mutually exclusive. @Bandit74 also made a very good point, their are conditiones to this arrangment and currently women do not wish to abide by them ergo they are undeserving of men abiding by them. Until such a time that women wish to reciprocate by following their end of the agreements she is not entitled to a man who gives her these things. In short, hold up your end of the deal or shut up and accept the fact that a man is not going to enter into an arrangment that only benefits the woman. Thanks to the sexual "revolution" women are putting out sex very easily and as such men now ironicly have more access to sex without having to follow these very rules women demand men follow (even while women don't). So consider your own contribution (or lack there off) before making any demands from would be suitors.

    • "everything else ie refusing to acknowledge it and attempting to force so called "equality" while simultaneously demanding to be treated differently," you can be different but equal. 5+5 and 6+4 are equal (both equal 10) but different

    • yes you can be different and equal, but thats not what is happening, you want sameness and special treatment at the same time and that is not equal. Its called a power grab you want the privledges that being a woman grants and you want the privledges that being a man grants all while ensuring that all the responsibilities fall soley on the man ergo an unequal situation. Its hypocricy, its sexism, and its wrong and men are now begining to realize this and turn away hence so many men opting out of marriage and even some going so far as to opting out relationships (Pick up artists) and of women in general (Mgtow/herbivores).

  • That is the most petty, completely bullshit take I have ever read.
    most men, like myself, prefer no makeup. Makeup is all about women, not men. so don't try and pawn that off on us.
    dna is dna, you can't pawn off childbirth on men.
    Basically, women want equality except when it comes to everything other then pay and jobs. You want the guy to chase you, you want use to pay for date, yada yada..

    • I don't want equality, I want equity (fairness). Women already have so much shit to deal with, it's only fair that men be expected to deal with some things in compensation.

      & You think you prefer no makeup but most women you see, who look good with "no makeup", are actually wearing natural-looking makeup.

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    • what do men go through that women don't?
      From what I understand, most of the things men go through that women don't, only happen to a minority of men.
      For example, more men than women get murdered... But only 1% of men get murdered. So it doesn't really compare because 81% of women give birth. Whereas most men will never experience something that painful. & Before you mention getting kicked in the balls, that doesn't last 8+ hours.

    • Opie, you are pretty fking ignorant. Men go through just as much as shit as women do. its just different kind of bullshit. And its not just minority men. And also , a man in his accumulative years of lide has usually gome through more pain than women. Even with the pregnancy. Thats why men have probably naturally more pain tolerance. So if i said that maybe delivery is a way of evening up that, wouldn't you think tjat would sound pretty fkinh ignorant? And by the way, at least its acceptable for women to bitch about it. As men you have to man the fuck up and walk it off.

  • Well "from an evolutionary perspective" it was never ideal for a man to share resources and sexually commit himself to one women who has slept with other men.

    Nowadays there's not much incentive to put in effort. Why would I want to be the guy who pays to take the girl on dates, waits months and puts in all the effort to romance her/prove my worth to aqurie her as a mate when its highly probable that random guys she got drunk with at a parties or met her on tinder "aquired her as a mate" with a fraction of the time effort and investment?

    Personally, I'd rather strive to be one of those guys rather than the guy who puts in all the effort while she just sits back and doesn't equally reciprocate my effort.

  • Let's go over a few flaws:

    1) You assume that all women will eventually bear children. This is absolutely false. I've dated 3 women, none of whom I impregnated. So why was I expected to "do more" if she never had my children?

    2) Most of the women I know, who have children, requested maternal leave. Most of their husbands requested extra hours at work, sometimes "double shifts" to prepare for the child. That's where the "balance" occurs.

    I will agree that there should be some level of additional effort on the males part. But, not because the woman he is dating may or may not become pregnant.

  • Of course, your childbirth automatically outweighs everything a man can possibly do, whether or not she actually uses it. Her pain of childbirth means the man putting equal work to raise the child and then slave at work for the rest of his life still can't compare


  • Now that we are mostly autonomous, thinking beings who don't necessarily have to adhere to nature, would it be slightly unfair if neither of the partners wants or plans to have children though? It makes sense from a strictly evolutionary perspective though haha.

    I'm not sure if the thing about attractiveness is true (that women don't care as much about physical attractiveness) but it does just seem logical that if a person only wants to date people who are very attractive then they have to put more effort into it. It's basically the same with getting anything where there's a limited number of the "best" option.

    • True points about not necessarily wanting kids, but women are still screwed on the "has extra reproductive responsibilities due to evolution" bc of menstruation every month :/

      & Yeah exactly :) (Regarding the attractiveness thing.)

  • Keeping your point of view in eyes, It is not necessary that the girl a guy is trying to date with all the effort will eventually become pregnant or reproduce a child, reproduction comes at very last, before that a guy has to keep asking many girls to date and present himself as a complete product package do the girl will show some interest in buying, I am 27 and still a dateless although I am very decent and honest and I am doing job well to do, it is still vwry sad to see that most of the girls demands nowadays are out of my reach even a girl who already have dated 10 of men is picky over me and I need to prove myself and chances are no luck 85%, although I get offer from only girls who are single mother, well I put in lots of efforts and I am not even responsible for her pregnancy and reproduction thing, I can't even say anything about that else girls will back fire and start labelling me and say different stuff to me, well when all the time I was trying to be a perfect match she have enjoyed casual sex with many guys and by her fault and mistake or maybe by her personal will she became pregnant to someone else so now it fair for me to have this? I spent all those lonely years put all effort but girls were picky never dated me even though i was ready to get married not just have fun and leave a girl I was sober and still lonely all those years, and count those all efforts I put in for single date and at last I get a call from a girl who have kid? And that is not even mine, don't you think it would be unfair? An asshole have fun with you all the time and leave a bump for me? Lets calculate what he got, he got fun but no responsibility he doesn't have to raise a child which is actually his outcome, he doesn't have to commit with anything, he was the first to have your body, I come at last and feels like I am just good husband material wasted my life just to raise someone else kid, this all things goes very unfair sometimes, I am sorry if i sounded rude and harsh but this thought almost make me cry on knees it sounds very unfair to me, If you are a divorced girl with a kid I respect you and marry you but if you wasted it all for fun and having sex with assholes in live in relationships without commitment then I am so sorry, I would prefer to stay alone then, I am not a use and throw material, I have my diginity, I was also starving for fun but I don't want to be unfair with people who thinks like me.

  • Lmao why don't you feminist try getting laid? Why are you so sexually frustrated and bitter towards dicks? Is it because you can't get D?

    • I think its because some fucking white knights have been desperate to get into their panties have been giving them some sense of entitlement.

  • In the past both men and women had to work their asses off to survive, women mostly doing the easy safer work men doing the harder more dangerous work, generally speaking.

    In the modern age women are pricing them selves out of the market, men are walking away from having a wife, kids, career, building a home etc.. by the millions in every developed nation. No civilization has ever survived a birth rate below replacement level, no civilization has ever recovered once the birth rate dropped that low, every western country is well below replacement rate and still dropping.

    • "men doing the harder more dangerous work" Yeah because childbirth was easier and safer, smfh

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    • @tyber1 no they weren't -.- you people seriously underestimate the extent to which women have historically been burdened with heavy/dangerous labour, even during pregnancy

    • Lol are you serious right now? I'm not blind to the dangers women faced giving birth, but outside of that they were relatively sheltered.

  • Dare I explain the obvious?

    Okay, lets look at looks. Women are expected by society to have great hair, makeup, a great body and to dress a certain way.

    What about men? We are also expected to have great hair, body and clothes. We may not be expected to wear makeup, but what we ARE expected to have is height.

    Now let's look at children and pregnancy. A big pet peeve about you women is that you act like we are forcing you to go through pregnancy and have kids. There are many, many relationships out there were the couple doesn't have any kids and are perfectly stable. Nobody is forcing you to give birth so stop using that as a reason.

    One final thing. Why should we as men stay if you're not going to put as much into it was we are? You're not entitled to a man who puts in his 100% if you're not putting in yours just because of your biology. All not putting everything you have into a relationship while making him put in everything is going to do is show him you don't appreciate or care about him. Now I want you to tell me right now why any self respecting man would stay with a woman who shows she doesn't care. He wouldn't. He's just gonna leave to find a better girl who will appreciate him and you would have lost a perfectly good man.

  • Essentially this is sexual selection theory in a nutshell as I mentioned on my own MyTake. In other words, since women have a lower sexual output, they are the ones who are sought-after and thus possess the luxury to be extremely picky.

    However, I don't necessarily agree that evolution justifies it. If we were to base all of our decisions and moral values off of evolution, then you would also have to concede that rape, infanticide, and patriarchy--which happen quite commonly in the wild--are also justifiable. And I'm sure you wouldn't do that.

    Furthermore, the other issue here is that we are assuming that relationships are based entirely off of reproduction. Many humans are genuinely moved by emotion and the desire for companionship.

    So while evolution can maybe explain some tendencies we have, it can never fully justify them and/or account for the full picture.

  • Evolution of the Homo sapiens species has taken place over millions of years. I'm not a historian but I am pretty sure the "beauty" component only came into fruition over the past few thousand years. I'm fairly certain that prehistoric humans didn't have access to the Almay section at Sears.

    On a side note though... I don't ever pay for a girl on our first date... if she doesn't like it... well she's more than welcome to find someone else. That's me enhancing my evolution by protecting myself!

  • I don't care to be honest. Most of the effort I put is for/to myself, and myself only. I strive to be smarter, well, train myself mentally and learn new things, to be physically fit and stronger as much as I can, or have time to do so, and even though I don't expect to be a millionaire, I want to be succesful in my own career.

    If any girl appreciates that, and puts up with the fact that my career goes first then great, if not, then that's good too.

    From an evolutionary standpoint, as you say, men are supposed to be the catch if they wanted to, not the other way around. And men are also supposed to be the providers (finantially), and protectors (physically).

    That's why rich men, powerful men and physically strong/fit men don't have to do much when it comes to dating and meeting women. Because they're the flames, and girls are the moths to them. Bam! That's why egocentric and narcissist men are the most succesful in relationships. Not all of us have that attitude, but we all should strive for it
    .. "from an evolutionary standpoint".

  • To a degree true but really simplistic - The main reason I say this is I am not 100% convinced by this finding a mate theory - I am a great believer in things just happen, men and women should just look after themselves, do what they wish to feel comfortable about themselves and if they are lucky enough to find someone so be it - If they settle down and have kids, they should share the duties and responsibility as equally as possible according to their capabilities.

  • i disagree completely. Yes women have to carry children. But i disagree men care more about looks than women. It is easiar for a woman who isn't hot to get a great looking guy than it is for an ugly guy to get a beautiful girl that is of same statute as before mentioned guy. in today's society women is just as capable of making just as much money as men if not more. Men are also more welcoming to the idea of stay at home dads now days also.. I think men are more willing to also help with pregnancy issue's as men are more involved today than ever before. I think women should have to put just as much effort into getting a man as a man should have to for a woman. Im sitting here in house full of guys and girls as i write this and they all agree with me. Dont you think your sex is capable of being more involved in courting today. Guys have also became more laid back about being single with out women and no im not talking about being players. Man and woman should be equal in work to get mate and work after marriage in todays society just my opinion.

  • I'm not sure why so many people are up in arms about this. LOL

    I mean, it's an undeniable fact that women have FAR greater reproductive costs, and therefore they should be choosier as a result. And them being able to be choosy means that men compete for them in one way or the other.

    I really hope I don't come across as hoity-toity, but I think that most people who complain about this arrangement just haven't found success with women -- thus the griping.

    • What everyone is glossing over is the fact that we haves TOO many people already.
      Thus further reproduction, will only lead to note crime, war and famine.
      Being able to bring more of what there is already too much of IS NOT something you should attach value to. That's an idiotic argument.

    • More*
      Typing on my dumb phone.

  • I somewhat agree with you, but I also disagree. I agree that, from an evolutionary perspective, it would be fair that men put in more effort while women sit and wait for the right suitor.

    But one thing evolution didn't account for was over-population, and for us to create civilisation. Humans are more than abundant, we are excessive. Rendering most of us expendable, and that includes women. You see, we are not living in hunter-gatherer societies any more. We live in concrete jungles and are practically separate from the natural world.

    Women no longer have inherited value. Their goods are obsolete. We have more than enough humans, so what is a woman's bargaining chip if not child-bearing?

    • Not really. You have a point about overpopulation and us not *needing* to have many kids anymore, but regardless, most people still want kids. Because it's not enough for them there are *many* people *outside* their family. They want to have their *own* family.

    • Yes really. I get what you are saying but there is, objectively, barely any value in a single human life (and thus, barely any value in a woman's ability to bear children). So women don't instantly deserve special treatment or whatever, simply on the basis of their genitals.

      What if I don't want kids? Would I still need to put more effort in than I need to?
      What if the woman doesn't want kids? Would she still deserve to be treated like a princess?

  • Wrong.
    1. Child birth is a choice. Nobody forced you to get pregnant and bring another (god knows we need LESS humans, not more) screaming kid into this over populated world.
    2. It makes sense from an evolutionary stand point, but we are above the animal kingdom. I would hope that a woman would WANT to put in effort. In my world, you get what you put in. If you don't want to put in effort to make me happy, why should I do that for you?
    3. I don't mind being chivalrous at all. But I don't think all men have some obligation to do it. In the U. S., it's a free country. So don't force it upon people simply because of their gender. That's sexist.
    4. Feminism kind of destroyed the need for it to be men chase women choose. You wanted equality? You got it.

    • No one forces a woman to become pregnant, but no one forces a man to put more effort into dating, either. The fact is that in both cases, it's expected.

      "You wanted equality? You got it."
      No, actually. My feminism isn't about equality. It's about equity (fairness).

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    • @Kirah Amen sister.

    • Actually if someone gets pregnant from rape that's forced

  • Seriously, first you choose to use makeup. I beg my wife not to use it the female body is a work of art. Maybe your insecurity is the problem. Why don't men wear makeup, because we are not that hung up on our looks there are more important things about us we need to worry about. Women are to worried about what everyone thinks about them. Second, you have the ability to carry a living being inside you which any woman I know says is an amazing experience, you will feel a connection to your child a man will never have. You act like it's a curse yet it's not required for a happy/healthy relationship. Last both parties should be trying to satisfy their partner in every way then there would be a lot less relationship problems.

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What Girls Said 9

  • You gave an explanation, but not a proper justification. I was actually hoping you would touch on Bateman's Principle, since it makes a stronger case for the reason behind women taking a passive role.

    There is no reason for us not to make the first move more often. You give birth, *if* you decide to have children. While it's a heavy 9 months, that does not justify taking a passive attitude.

    "(makeup, hair, etc - not only do men care more about looks than women do in a longterm mate, but women also have higher beauty standards to live up to, due to makeup and photoshop etc)"

    Actually, nobody is forcing you to follow these standards. Besides, men face standards too. "Oh you're under 6'0? Bye!"

    • "nobody is forcing you to follow these standards." Nobody's forcing men to put more effort into dating than women do, either.
      But it's expected. So is women looking their best.

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    • and in case you don't know about the suicide rate here's an article www.suicide.org/...ational-suicide-statistics.html

  • Well I don't see how that's fair at all. Men can't be blamed for the way biology works, I don't see how biology is unfair in any way. A woman's body is different from a man's and functions differently but just because they work differently from each other doesn't mean someone was cheated and therefore has it worse. Childbirth and pregnancy aren't relevant at all to the dating world. For a marriage most definitely but certainly not a movie and dinner date. If a woman doesn't want to experience pregnancy and childbirth then don't have sex. It's as simple as that. Don't perform the act of reproduction if you don't want to reproduce.

  • Some sort of a quid pro quo. I concur with the idea, but you'll be getting A LOT of BUTTHURT comments from dudes on here... o. O

    • Well how about I tell you that because of your genitals, you automatically are assigned a job-you have no free will of your own, and the main purpose of your existence is to cater to my needs.
      How would you react?
      Telling a man he owes women special treatment simply because, is no better than telling a woman she owes me sex simply because.

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    • Ok. Just point out what others are doing instead of actually participating in the discussion.
      That's helpful.
      A moderator should remove you from this thread.

    • MyTake Owner. Explain to me why Theodore Roosevelt has supreme authority, and why his opinion trumps any argument that stands in it's way?

  • GREAT take! Most republican and democratic men would agree with you. Unfortunately beta liberals make up the majority of the population these days, so they expect women to take on traditional male roles and vice versa. It's a bit sad. If you're a man, be a man! If you're a woman, be a woman! Nothing wrong with that.. in fact, it's natural.

    • So what are you giving in return? If he gives resources for the rights to reproduce do you then provide unconditional sex to him seeing as how he is expected to give unconditional resources to you? Most women think that they should be pampered but then not actually do anything to earn it. A man gives his resrouces to reproduce and to have his child cared for yet in our society a man gives his resources, reproduces when SHE decides it and then he and her care for the child equally (even as he workes more hours then she does (statisticly proven)). He wishes to have exclusive rights to reproduction but she wishes to give those rights away for free while demanding that he pay for it. In short you can live in a traditional way which makes perfect sense it follows our biology very well which is why we did it for so long, or you can do the modern thing and do as you wish when you wish without obligation, just don't expect him to feel obligated to follow the traditional role that you shirk.

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    • @CancerianMan81 Yes it is, laws don't work unless people follow them and enforce them but since the very people expected to apply them are bias themselves it really doesn't change things (courts favor women in all respects, hence women getting a third of the sentencing that a man would for commiting the same crime). Yet its constantly being twisted as if the father getting to call his children once a week is the same as full or partial custody.

  • We are passed that... we are not living along side the neanderthals anymore! The reason for that is that homosapiens EVOLVE and CHANGE if we stay stagnant in our neatly packaged little roles forever we will stop moving forward. If we refuse to change we will end up extinct like the rest of our ancestors.

    • Yeah but if women still have to have their evolutionary reproductive burden (pregnancy and childbirth) why are we going to get rid of men's? So that women are the ones left with all of the burden. That's unfair.

    • You are overcomplicating things, it's a bit immature.

  • Women should quit making excuses why guys should try harder.

    Their you want a man or not
    Don't expect him to give you the world.

    You want money get a job,
    Then you can afford make up etc..
    As for dates it's better to go half and half.

    Women's standards are so high
    If I was a guy I would turn gay.
    Or be single.

  • i feel that both need to put the same amount of effort! this doesn't work one way... it should be balanced

    • But then after that, women have to put more work into reproduction. That's not fair.

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    • You've clearly never been pregnant if you think that men "dealing with our morning sickness" is ANYWHERE near equality with the pain women go through during pregnancy.

    • but still my point is guys anyways do a lot for us in their own ways... relationships r about equality

  • True to an extent.

  • SO true. Women have higher standards to by men to be pleasing to the male eye so that they can be worthy of any kind of relationship. All a man's gotta do is have a good personality and be average looking.