Why It's Totally Fair That Men Are Expected To Put More Effort Into Dating Than Women Are (From An Evolutionary Perspective)

[Anonymous]

So men are often like “men are expected to do so much more shit to get a girlfriend! they have to pay for dates, get a good job, etc!“

Even if we disregard the fact that women do need to spend money on dates (makeup, hair, etc - not only do men care more about looks than women do in a longterm mate, but women also have higher beauty standards to live up to, due to makeup and photoshop etc), I wouldn’t actually find it unfair that men have to put more effort into “acquiring a mate.”

Why? Well, “finding a mate” is very often interconnected to reproduction, right? Well, I was just thinking the other day about how annoying it is that it seems that we have to go through so much more effort to reproduce. Pregnancy, childbirth, etc. Then I thought - well, yeah, it does require a man more effort to “acquire a mate” to reproduce with than it does for a woman. So I guess the extra effort that men have to put into “finding a mate” (and thus reproducing) helps to balance out the extra effort that women have to put into reproducing after having already found a mate.

So not only is it totally fair that men have to put more effort into finding a mate, but it would be totally unfair to expect women and men to have to put the same amount of effort into acquiring and keeping a mate, because that would be giving women a double burden & making the effort required to be put into reproduction even more unequal than it already is. (I do still think that women overall put more effort into reproduction than men do, even with the extra effort that men put into actually finding a mate. It really can’t compare to pregnancy and childbirth.)

[Chief16]

https://a.fod4.com/misc/darth%20vader%20fuck.gif
Mostly because this is bebasing to women and not men. From a evolutionary stand point, both men and women have to put in maximum effort. Survival of the fittest yeah? Why do women assume that this only applies to men? Women are on the evolutionary curve too. Sorry, but everybody's gotta work hard.

[LiveFreeorDieHard]

I don't care how withers ex feels about what guys or girls should do. Im going to do what I want to do and if people disagree I don't care. If people agree then thanks for the support. If the girls I'm dating doesn't like splitting the bill 50/50, then I'll find someone else. Screw all this guys do all the heavy lifting. I'm going to go 50% on everything and she Woolworths other 50%. For all those guys out there who pay for all the dates and are required to do all the heavy lifting, your sacrifice has been noted lol.

[TheAngryBanana]

I am with you on this one Cheif, in the evolution cyle women have to make themselvs very attractive and beautiful this will help show their potential mates that they are healty and are able to produce very strong offspirng if we are strictly talking simple bioligy :)

[ClariceOwen23]

This whole take sounds like an excuse to me.

[Jimrat86]

Of course it is!
The take owner is just going to justify every point she tries to make simply because she wants to be right. Not even a bevy of logical refutes has stopped her from trying rationalize her entitlements.

[ClariceOwen23]

@Jimrat86 sounds about right

[Jimrat86]

We have the same opinion, and the same last name.

[Hariss]

Keeping your point of view in eyes, It is not necessary that the girl a guy is trying to date with all the effort will eventually become pregnant or reproduce a child, reproduction comes at very last, before that a guy has to keep asking many girls to date and present himself as a complete product package do the girl will show some interest in buying, I am 27 and still a dateless although I am very decent and honest and I am doing job well to do, it is still vwry sad to see that most of the girls demands nowadays are out of my reach even a girl who already have dated 10 of men is picky over me and I need to prove myself and chances are no luck 85%, although I get offer from only girls who are single mother, well I put in lots of efforts and I am not even responsible for her pregnancy and reproduction thing, I can't even say anything about that else girls will back fire and start labelling me and say different stuff to me, well when all the time I was trying to be a perfect match she have enjoyed casual sex with many guys and by her fault and mistake or maybe by her personal will she became pregnant to someone else so now it fair for me to have this? I spent all those lonely years put all effort but girls were picky never dated me even though i was ready to get married not just have fun and leave a girl I was sober and still lonely all those years, and count those all efforts I put in for single date and at last I get a call from a girl who have kid? And that is not even mine, don't you think it would be unfair? An asshole have fun with you all the time and leave a bump for me? Lets calculate what he got, he got fun but no responsibility he doesn't have to raise a child which is actually his outcome, he doesn't have to commit with anything, he was the first to have your body, I come at last and feels like I am just good husband material wasted my life just to raise someone else kid, this all things goes very unfair sometimes, I am sorry if i sounded rude and harsh but this thought almost make me cry on knees it sounds very unfair to me, If you are a divorced girl with a kid I respect you and marry you but if you wasted it all for fun and having sex with assholes in live in relationships without commitment then I am so sorry, I would prefer to stay alone then, I am not a use and throw material, I have my diginity, I was also starving for fun but I don't want to be unfair with people who thinks like me.

[hellionthesage]

Yes biologicly that is how it worked, however the issue is everything else ie refusing to acknowledge it and attempting to force so called "equality" while simultaneously demanding to be treated differently, either we are the same or we are different either is fine (technicly we are not the same this is provable) but its the treating women the same but also special that is the issue choose one or the other you cannot have both. Its the utter hypocricy of it that pisses people off. For instance a man put more resources into women for sex but if he is devoting all these resources to her and she is holding out then that is hypocrisy it is the singular purpose of a relationship biologicly speaking and the purpose of marriage and yet a man in a marriage is obligated to fullfill his duties as in giving his resrouces to her she is no longer obligated to fullfill her end of the deal ie reproduction/sex ergo it is hypocricy and utter bull. Choose one or the other your either the same and should be treated as such or your not in which case you shouldn't be treated the same. Again, you have to choose one or the other as they are mutually exclusive. @Bandit74 also made a very good point, their are conditiones to this arrangment and currently women do not wish to abide by them ergo they are undeserving of men abiding by them. Until such a time that women wish to reciprocate by following their end of the agreements she is not entitled to a man who gives her these things. In short, hold up your end of the deal or shut up and accept the fact that a man is not going to enter into an arrangment that only benefits the woman. Thanks to the sexual "revolution" women are putting out sex very easily and as such men now ironicly have more access to sex without having to follow these very rules women demand men follow (even while women don't). So consider your own contribution (or lack there off) before making any demands from would be suitors.

[myTake Owner]

"everything else ie refusing to acknowledge it and attempting to force so called "equality" while simultaneously demanding to be treated differently," you can be different but equal. 5+5 and 6+4 are equal (both equal 10) but different

[hellionthesage]

yes you can be different and equal, but thats not what is happening, you want sameness and special treatment at the same time and that is not equal. Its called a power grab you want the privledges that being a woman grants and you want the privledges that being a man grants all while ensuring that all the responsibilities fall soley on the man ergo an unequal situation. Its hypocricy, its sexism, and its wrong and men are now begining to realize this and turn away hence so many men opting out of marriage and even some going so far as to opting out relationships (Pick up artists) and of women in general (Mgtow/herbivores).

[SomeGuy37]

Biologically speaking, it is NOT at ALL, in the male's best interest to have a steady, single mate!! We have several 'brains', from evolution. One of the most primal, is the 'Reptilian' brain, that focuses on basal survival needs, among these: reproduction.
It is only with higher-level brain evolution, the mammalian, then primate, then 'human' that the concept of love, dual parental care for offspring arose.
I'm not trying to be an A$$ here, and I don't believe this, but What does a man gain, taking a mate, rather than just the casual 'flirtations' and casual sex with willing partners? Love? Companionship? a divorce, and alimony/child support?
I don't want children, and I am complete, by myself, as I have found what I need. I am content, alone, without a woman, or children. Why do I need to make an effort for someone I don't NEED?
If women want some guy, then they should put in that extra effort to convince him, or persuade him, or just beguile him, with her attributes, to make him want to be that partner, having children, and whatever.
I HATE this fake, socially-mandated behavior!! I want the woman that I like, and she likes me, because we share something, in common! She tells me when she thinks I am full of sht, and she knows I love cuddling with her and I want to be with her, because she makes my life better, and we want to be together, because we are better together, than alone, regardless of children, or the idea of a 'mate'!

[Steelcore1085]

I may be a traditionalist, but you are incredibly entitled, and I can tell that when I read this stupid excuse for a MyTake, trying to justify women not putting very much effort into a relationship and just "go along with the ride". Women like you are why I think the entire female half of the human race is entitled as fuck.

I don't think you understand that relationships are partnerships which require EQUAL effort from both parties. Not just one person putting in 90% of the work and effort. Do you even realize that when you expect the man to do everything and you do almost nothing in the relationship, he's eventually gonna walk out because he believes you didn't give a fuck about him? You can say "I love you" to him as much as you want. But actions, or lack thereof, speak MUCH louder than words, and your lack of effort to make him feel like he's loved and appreciated says a lot about who you are.

You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Maybe someday you'll figure that out when enough good men say "fuck it" and walk out of your life because they thought you didn't care enough.

[myTake Owner]

Women do put in a lot of effort via pregnancy and childbirth

[HeWhoPonders]

Dare I explain the obvious?

Okay, lets look at looks. Women are expected by society to have great hair, makeup, a great body and to dress a certain way.

What about men? We are also expected to have great hair, body and clothes. We may not be expected to wear makeup, but what we ARE expected to have is height.

Now let's look at children and pregnancy. A big pet peeve about you women is that you act like we are forcing you to go through pregnancy and have kids. There are many, many relationships out there were the couple doesn't have any kids and are perfectly stable. Nobody is forcing you to give birth so stop using that as a reason.

One final thing. Why should we as men stay if you're not going to put as much into it was we are? You're not entitled to a man who puts in his 100% if you're not putting in yours just because of your biology. All not putting everything you have into a relationship while making him put in everything is going to do is show him you don't appreciate or care about him. Now I want you to tell me right now why any self respecting man would stay with a woman who shows she doesn't care. He wouldn't. He's just gonna leave to find a better girl who will appreciate him and you would have lost a perfectly good man.

[jc1982]

i disagree completely. Yes women have to carry children. But i disagree men care more about looks than women. It is easiar for a woman who isn't hot to get a great looking guy than it is for an ugly guy to get a beautiful girl that is of same statute as before mentioned guy. in today's society women is just as capable of making just as much money as men if not more. Men are also more welcoming to the idea of stay at home dads now days also.. I think men are more willing to also help with pregnancy issue's as men are more involved today than ever before. I think women should have to put just as much effort into getting a man as a man should have to for a woman. Im sitting here in house full of guys and girls as i write this and they all agree with me. Dont you think your sex is capable of being more involved in courting today. Guys have also became more laid back about being single with out women and no im not talking about being players. Man and woman should be equal in work to get mate and work after marriage in todays society just my opinion.

[Anonymous]

The myTake Owner is very confused! It's ridiculous to claim: "[Men Are Expected To Put More Effort Into Dating Than Women Are (From An Evolutionary Perspective)". That is absolute nonsense! In an advanced, moderrn civilization, evolution is no longer the ultimate deciding factor! If we DARE to look at evolutionary human history, before laws were invented, men simply TOOK the women he wanted by force! It was exactly the same as for other warm blooded animals! Male dogs, bears and many other animals don't ASK females of their species for mating permission!

Human history is loaded with conqueror men who RAPED the women of the conquered people! THAT"S REAL HUMAN EVOLUTION! Advanced, modern societies are largely artificial and thus often stymie and defeat true evolution! The American Indians were physically superior to the European conquerors who took their land! GUNS overruled evolution!

Today in a dating context, evolution decides little or nothing! A man can win the genetic lottery and be naturally handsome, tall and powerfully athletic. But if he fails to supply the right mix of game, theatrics and manipulation, females will reject him! The same man who would have been a conquering KING who took any woman he wanted in a different era could end up dateless today! We have to face the truth that REAL EVOLUTION is not the foremost factor in a dating, social context!

With the artificial protective environment of laws, police, welfare assistance, make-up, wigs, breast implants, easy access to birth control and abortions and the full panoply of women's rights and legal powers, evolution hardly matters! Imagine a large, powerful man who defeats a woman's protector and throws her over his shoulder to carry her off as war booty! THAT"S EVOLUTION!

[myTake Owner]

Yes other animals do ask females' consent for sex usually. They have mating rituals.
If you want to compare to other animals then why not the black widow spider who eats her mate after sex?

[Opinion Owner]

Well, I guess you had to try to figure out some kind of response! Bottom line remains the same! Animal mating rituals can include some teasing and play! There is a broad range of mating rituals in the various species! But there are also gross examples of plain RAPE! You should see ducks mating! That's forced sex! In human evolution history, males' greater size and strength were always part of the picture and force was often used!

In Sweden, since the mass migrant influx of Muslims, rape has increased 1,400 percent making it the rape capital of the world! New Year's 2016 celebrations in Cologne, Germany, included a huge number of sexual molestations by aggressive Muslim migrants! I mention it because we live in an artificial environment with rules, laws and police! Those poor German women rape victims received an unwanted introduction to REAL nature and evolution! Female mating choice is a warm, fuzzy experiment that civilized men allowed! Don't confuse it with real evolution!

[Humping_Tornadoes]

I don't care to be honest. Most of the effort I put is for/to myself, and myself only. I strive to be smarter, well, train myself mentally and learn new things, to be physically fit and stronger as much as I can, or have time to do so, and even though I don't expect to be a millionaire, I want to be succesful in my own career.

If any girl appreciates that, and puts up with the fact that my career goes first then great, if not, then that's good too.

From an evolutionary standpoint, as you say, men are supposed to be the catch if they wanted to, not the other way around. And men are also supposed to be the providers (finantially), and protectors (physically).

That's why rich men, powerful men and physically strong/fit men don't have to do much when it comes to dating and meeting women. Because they're the flames, and girls are the moths to them. Bam! That's why egocentric and narcissist men are the most succesful in relationships. Not all of us have that attitude, but we all should strive for it
.. "from an evolutionary standpoint".

[Andvari]

Fair. However, accepting double standards based on biology opens a lot of doors, some of which would disadvantage women.

By that same evolutionary principle, that because women bear children they *should* have to work less at finding a mate, you could also argue it's fair for a man to expect a woman to stay home, "barefoot and pregnant", to better care for the child she's bearing. By your argument, if the purpose of dating is to produce offspring, then it's equally fair to suggest that extra effort he puts in to ensure that shouldn't go to "waste" by a woman working, not breastfeeding for WHO's recommended timeframe, etc... If, by your logic, what's fair in dating is down to evolutionary principles surrounding offspring, it's "fair" for a man to expect a woman to be a housewife.

Not that I personally agree with this. Nor do I necessarily disagree with your point - whether dating is "fair" or not is irrelevant... it's a matter of choosing who to spend your life with, not a game, so fairness takes a backseat to compatibility and necessity. But it's also worth noting that the birth rate has decreased, and fewer couples than ever are even having children - thus the evolutionary principles of dating don't apply in every situation. If a woman doesn't want children, or doesn't want children until an older age when risk of birth defects increase, her dating life is counter-evolutionary, anyway - which is fine, and each individual's personal choice. But any arguments of evolutionary principles become irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

I disagree personally,
"Even if we disregard the fact that women do need to spend money on dates (makeup, hair, etc..."
Something you do for yourself shouldn't be the man's business because usually the woman looks however she wants and just gets the man that likes her current look.
“finding a mate” is very often interconnected to reproduction, right?"
Not really. That depends on a lot of factors. Hookup culture is on the rise and humans have sex for fun most of the time not like most other mammals who mostly have sex to breed. Your point for "fairness" even though I disagree with it, will only apply if reproduction is going to take place. And since most "mating" happens with no pregnancies, pregnancy can't be a constant variable in the equation..
"we have to go through so much more effort to reproduce. Pregnancy, childbirth, etc."
That's true. But pregnancy takes 2 people deciding unless it's accidental. And it doesn't end there, women currently have the option for abortion in worst case scenario so they don't have to go through the full 9 months of pregnancy unless they want to. If it's their decision, why are males supposed to be in the equation?

I'm not trying to say men should do less work or women should do more work, people do whatever they do. But, I do agree with that women might have an easier time finding a partner. Note: I didn't say EASY time, I said easiER compared to their male counterparts.

[frozenhorizon]

Now that we are mostly autonomous, thinking beings who don't necessarily have to adhere to nature, would it be slightly unfair if neither of the partners wants or plans to have children though? It makes sense from a strictly evolutionary perspective though haha.

I'm not sure if the thing about attractiveness is true (that women don't care as much about physical attractiveness) but it does just seem logical that if a person only wants to date people who are very attractive then they have to put more effort into it. It's basically the same with getting anything where there's a limited number of the "best" option.

[myTake Owner]

True points about not necessarily wanting kids, but women are still screwed on the "has extra reproductive responsibilities due to evolution" bc of menstruation every month :/

& Yeah exactly :) (Regarding the attractiveness thing.)

[Kirah]

You gave an explanation, but not a proper justification. I was actually hoping you would touch on Bateman's Principle, since it makes a stronger case for the reason behind women taking a passive role.

There is no reason for us not to make the first move more often. You give birth, *if* you decide to have children. While it's a heavy 9 months, that does not justify taking a passive attitude.

"(makeup, hair, etc - not only do men care more about looks than women do in a longterm mate, but women also have higher beauty standards to live up to, due to makeup and photoshop etc)"

Actually, nobody is forcing you to follow these standards. Besides, men face standards too. "Oh you're under 6'0? Bye!"

[myTake Owner]

"nobody is forcing you to follow these standards." Nobody's forcing men to put more effort into dating than women do, either.
But it's expected. So is women looking their best.

[Kirah]

@mistixs "Nobody's forcing men to put more effort into dating than women do, either." Actually, this isn't entirely true. As I've explained in another comment, if a man doesn't devote a majority of his time and attention to "courting" a girl, he won't get a date. Men have to always approach.

I couldn't imagine the pressure that's put on shy guys.

[myTake Owner]

Similarly, if a girl doesn't do her makeup and hair and become pretty, then she won't get a date.

[Kirah]

@mistixs I never use makeup, I have no problems getting a date. Then again, I'm not afraid of approaching guys. Perhaps that's your problem?

[Sixgun77]

1 just last week I was dropped by someone who I was getting along with wonderfully because of my height. It really DOES happen lol, I was not expecting it.

2 the whole makeup thing can get really over rated. Lots of times women look amazing just getting out of the shower. That's also waking up and having what my bartender friend calls her "partied hard and fucked real good" look.

[myTake Owner]

@Sixgun77 most of the women who you think look gorgeous without makeup are actually wearing natural-looking makeup

[Sixgun77]

I was referring to peopIe i knew in rl.

[hellionthesage]

Well said, also its funny that men are not held to a standard yet on the cover of every single romance novel ever written (the most popular genre written almost entirely by women for women) their is alwasy a ripped half naked man on the cover. Its actualy quite funny that this is routinely over looked. Thanks for being aware of this, its quite refreshing. @mistixs Its still expected of men as well as previously explained, only of course you can't hide your height with makeup (maybe with stilts) you can't just do up a six pack and you can't diet your way to a six figure income.

[CancerianMan81]

@mistixs men don't care about looks all we care about is if you have good heart or not not every man cares for competition I'm a decent handsome man and me I don't care if i'm popular or not to me beauty is only skin deep it's not what's on the outside that counts it's what's on the inside that counts

[Jimrat86]

Good point.
But women don't like points like this.
Why not?
Because it shakes their delusional reality.

[CancerianMan81]

@Jimrat86 well then they can just stay fake and just stay cold and bitter all their life and be lonely all their life cause I won't have anything to do with them

[Jimrat86]

@CancerianMan81 Amen brother

[myTake Owner]

@CancerianMan81 "men don't care about looks" dozens of scientific studies would disagree with you

[CancerianMan81]

oh so your applying that you know what I want

[CancerianMan81]

and by the way your in no fucking position to tell me what the fuck i want

[CancerianMan81]

@Kirah yeah well it's not easy for us shy guys that's why the suicide rate with men is going up

[CancerianMan81]

and in case you don't know about the suicide rate here's an article www.suicide.org/...ational-suicide-statistics.html

[CancerianMan81]

and here's a more recent one articles.mercola.com/.../...rate-risk-factors.aspx

[MikeGaultier]

Let's go over a few flaws:

1) You assume that all women will eventually bear children. This is absolutely false. I've dated 3 women, none of whom I impregnated. So why was I expected to "do more" if she never had my children?

2) Most of the women I know, who have children, requested maternal leave. Most of their husbands requested extra hours at work, sometimes "double shifts" to prepare for the child. That's where the "balance" occurs.

I will agree that there should be some level of additional effort on the males part. But, not because the woman he is dating may or may not become pregnant.

[Bandit74]

Well "from an evolutionary perspective" it was never ideal for a man to share resources and sexually commit himself to one women who has slept with other men.

Nowadays there's not much incentive to put in effort. Why would I want to be the guy who pays to take the girl on dates, waits months and puts in all the effort to romance her/prove my worth to aqurie her as a mate when its highly probable that random guys she got drunk with at a parties or met her on tinder "aquired her as a mate" with a fraction of the time effort and investment?

Personally, I'd rather strive to be one of those guys rather than the guy who puts in all the effort while she just sits back and doesn't equally reciprocate my effort.

[Relentless_Hippie]

Well I don't see how that's fair at all. Men can't be blamed for the way biology works, I don't see how biology is unfair in any way. A woman's body is different from a man's and functions differently but just because they work differently from each other doesn't mean someone was cheated and therefore has it worse. Childbirth and pregnancy aren't relevant at all to the dating world. For a marriage most definitely but certainly not a movie and dinner date. If a woman doesn't want to experience pregnancy and childbirth then don't have sex. It's as simple as that. Don't perform the act of reproduction if you don't want to reproduce.

[Jimrat86]

Wrong.
1. Child birth is a choice. Nobody forced you to get pregnant and bring another (god knows we need LESS humans, not more) screaming kid into this over populated world.
2. It makes sense from an evolutionary stand point, but we are above the animal kingdom. I would hope that a woman would WANT to put in effort. In my world, you get what you put in. If you don't want to put in effort to make me happy, why should I do that for you?
3. I don't mind being chivalrous at all. But I don't think all men have some obligation to do it. In the U. S., it's a free country. So don't force it upon people simply because of their gender. That's sexist.
4. Feminism kind of destroyed the need for it to be men chase women choose. You wanted equality? You got it.

[myTake Owner]

No one forces a woman to become pregnant, but no one forces a man to put more effort into dating, either. The fact is that in both cases, it's expected.

"You wanted equality? You got it."
No, actually. My feminism isn't about equality. It's about equity (fairness).

[Jimrat86]

Feminism isn't the topic at hand. Though I disagree, because having different standards based on gender?
I mean come on. That basically defines sexism.
Nothing should be expected. No-one owes you anything.

[myTake Owner]

Standards can be different but equal. 2+2 and 1+3 are equal (both equal 4) but different.

[Kirah]

@mistixs "but no one forces a man to put more effort into dating, either." This is completely false. If a man doesn't spend a majority of his time and attention approaching women, he won't get a date. At all.

[Jimrat86]

That is the most retarded way to try to make a point

[Jimrat86]

@Kirah Amen sister.

[buttheadkakakak]

Actually if someone gets pregnant from rape that's forced

[10dsw]

Evolution of the Homo sapiens species has taken place over millions of years. I'm not a historian but I am pretty sure the "beauty" component only came into fruition over the past few thousand years. I'm fairly certain that prehistoric humans didn't have access to the Almay section at Sears.

On a side note though... I don't ever pay for a girl on our first date... if she doesn't like it... well she's more than welcome to find someone else. That's me enhancing my evolution by protecting myself!

[godfatherfan]

That is the most petty, completely bullshit take I have ever read.
most men, like myself, prefer no makeup. Makeup is all about women, not men. so don't try and pawn that off on us.
dna is dna, you can't pawn off childbirth on men.
Basically, women want equality except when it comes to everything other then pay and jobs. You want the guy to chase you, you want use to pay for date, yada yada..

[myTake Owner]

I don't want equality, I want equity (fairness). Women already have so much shit to deal with, it's only fair that men be expected to deal with some things in compensation.

& You think you prefer no makeup but most women you see, who look good with "no makeup", are actually wearing natural-looking makeup.

[godfatherfan]

no, I was married 25 years. I have seen a lot of my gf's in the morning with no makeup on. I prefer them with no makeup. It isn't that they don't look amazing with makeup on, I just don't need them going through the hassle for me. but they do it for themselves. That is why you can't pawn it off on men. Your whole argument is just nonsense. Men go through plenty that women don't. it is just the way it is. You seem to look at giving birth as a negative. I bet I can find more mothers out there that wouldn't give it up if you paid them.

[myTake Owner]

what do men go through that women don't?
From what I understand, most of the things men go through that women don't, only happen to a minority of men.
For example, more men than women get murdered... But only 1% of men get murdered. So it doesn't really compare because 81% of women give birth. Whereas most men will never experience something that painful. & Before you mention getting kicked in the balls, that doesn't last 8+ hours.

[slimstiffy]

Opie, you are pretty fking ignorant. Men go through just as much as shit as women do. its just different kind of bullshit. And its not just minority men. And also , a man in his accumulative years of lide has usually gome through more pain than women. Even with the pregnancy. Thats why men have probably naturally more pain tolerance. So if i said that maybe delivery is a way of evening up that, wouldn't you think tjat would sound pretty fkinh ignorant? And by the way, at least its acceptable for women to bitch about it. As men you have to man the fuck up and walk it off.

[Jager66]

In the past both men and women had to work their asses off to survive, women mostly doing the easy safer work men doing the harder more dangerous work, generally speaking.

In the modern age women are pricing them selves out of the market, men are walking away from having a wife, kids, career, building a home etc.. by the millions in every developed nation. No civilization has ever survived a birth rate below replacement level, no civilization has ever recovered once the birth rate dropped that low, every western country is well below replacement rate and still dropping.

[myTake Owner]

"men doing the harder more dangerous work" Yeah because childbirth was easier and safer, smfh

[Jager66]

easier? maybe, depends what your comparing it too, safer? most likely but still depends what your comparing it to. Child birth had a 1-2% chance of death.
What do you think your chance of death was if you had to walk off into the woods and kill a pack of wolves that are attacking your tribe with nothing but your bro's and a pointy stick?

[tyber1]

myTake Owner, women were shielded from dangerous work to allow maximum chances of reproductive success. Childbirth in itself is dangerous but this was a time where disease, carnivores, rival tribes and hunting were significant challenges and threats to life. These would have been greater threats than childbirth.

[myTake Owner]

@tyber1 no they weren't -.- you people seriously underestimate the extent to which women have historically been burdened with heavy/dangerous labour, even during pregnancy

[tyber1]

Lol are you serious right now? I'm not blind to the dangers women faced giving birth, but outside of that they were relatively sheltered.

[JRICHARDS1996]

Essentially this is sexual selection theory in a nutshell as I mentioned on my own MyTake. In other words, since women have a lower sexual output, they are the ones who are sought-after and thus possess the luxury to be extremely picky.

However, I don't necessarily agree that evolution justifies it. If we were to base all of our decisions and moral values off of evolution, then you would also have to concede that rape, infanticide, and patriarchy--which happen quite commonly in the wild--are also justifiable. And I'm sure you wouldn't do that.

Furthermore, the other issue here is that we are assuming that relationships are based entirely off of reproduction. Many humans are genuinely moved by emotion and the desire for companionship.

So while evolution can maybe explain some tendencies we have, it can never fully justify them and/or account for the full picture.