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33Opinion
You sound like you've been whipped a little. I mean what does it say about you that you know her expectations are different than yours but you go along with it anyway. Sure she's wrong to ask you out and then expect you to pay, but really you went knowing.. so maybe you and her belong together.
Nothing has happened yet. There is still planning. But I as a man give a little bit more flexibility because nobody shares my moral values when it comes to dating. For example, I personally believe that during dating bills should be split evenly. I even wrote a mytake about it that was viciously attacked. It would be impolite and foolish to reject 99% of dating opportunities because I believe in a dating style that 1% of people approve of.
Don't you think I would look like a dick if I said, "Hey on question 86 it says you think that guys should always pay for a date. I dont agree with that so therefore we shouldn't talk anymore."?
Who even goes out with someone that texts nudes before they've even met that actually wants a relationship? Ill tell ya who... no one. That's who. You re crazy... and apparently your only standard for the opposite sex is that they split the check with you. Which is about as low a bar as you can set.
I don't know how old you are. But, dating on apps such as tinder and other dating sites is a bit different than meeting someone the natural way. Secondly, hookup culture is different I suppose as well.
My only standard is not that they split a check with me. nice try there taking things out of context. By the way, do you think that dates should be split or the guy should pay? Just like differences in religion or race or anything, there is a give and take with dating norms and expectations.
Lastly, I received id say one saucy pic and the rest of the pics sent were cute ones with clothes on. I've gotten nudes from other women but I wouldn't "date" them. The chics I choose to date are as 'normal' as chics can be. The crazy sexters are more hookup chics. Gents, you know what im talking about. I date classy ladies, i have fun with naughty ones.
I agree with Opinion Owner on the comments about texting nudes before being in a relationship... Well, basically I think that's called "no standard" if a female could be doing that... Unless a female's intention was to get only sex, but uses nudes and dates to get a guy's attention, AND makes the guy pay...
lousy take, Y? it is a lousy example of double standards.
Men are the ones who invented double standards. Men complain that women dont pay their way. I went on a date and offered to pay, he refused to accept. Later on he says, I am not going broke just to see you. OH, the IRONY of SOME MEN.
First, I would have offered to split it. Second, I most likely would go on a second date with you if you had done that.
Third, maybe the guy has been trained to think that it was another "female test". Women test guys secretly all of the time. Society has brainwashed many men to think that they must buy a woman's affection.
I cannot disagree with you because that is who you are. It is true, about societies having great influence on our relationships towards each other. Which is a sad fact :( Unless, we all are determined to change from negative philosophies towards positive ones. Some Men/Women rather stress or give advisement to their peers on their negative views towards the opposite gender. It only encourages the great divide by conflicting views :(
Men want women as confused as possible so easier to control.
@azzntittiz LOL IT IS :D sometimes.
Wow that's stupid. Did you think that through? Men invented double standards? Men did? really? Your going to stick with that? Men created the double standard that they should have to pay and pander to women which only benefits women and not men. Men did that? Really? Didn't really think that one through very well did you? Or at all. As for offering to pay we all know how that works, you offer to pay he refuses and you get to claim your for "equality", however if he accepts he clearly wasn't serious about the relationship and you dump him. Its a catch 22, a double standard if you will where you are all for something when it benefits you and against it when it doesn't. Own it and move on.
@hellionthesagereborn get into history. thanks.
@hellionthesagereborn one more thing I wanted to add, I meant SOME men whom I have learned the double standards from, technically they are the one who invented/implanted that experience of double standard and its true meaning. They are the ones who told me about their standards and proceeded to do the opposite to do it themselves to me or their S/O.
@hellionthesagereborn To answer about the guy I dated, if he accepted my offer to pay my own way. I would have kept on dating him any way. It was his stinky attitude about everything that failed us.
Yeah I know history, that's why I said you didn't think it through. Why would history say otherwise? Women dictate the rules, men follow. You control reproduction so we have to do what you want, again a man isn't demanding that he pay for everything and work his ass off while the woman sat at home enjoying life because he liked to be miserable, he did it because this is what women demanded of men in order to reproduce with him. Its common sense. As for you continuing to date some one who took you up on that offer, fine maybe that's true but that's not true for most women ergo no man will accept that offer because 90% of the time the woman is testing him. That's why statistically over 80% of women said they wanted the man to pay for dates. This also disproves this idea you have that men created these double standards as its women who enforce them not men.
@hellionthesagereborn didn't you read all of what I said?
Yes I did. You said "get into history", at which point I addressed why that was a stupid statement not backed by actual fact or logic. You then tried to reverse your original statement that made a very specific statement that, "men are the ones who invented double standards.". I thought my statement proved otherwise. I then pointed out that while you MIGHT have been honest with your claim that you would have not judged him for accepting the bill be split the vast majority of women will in fact judge him so he, as all men, assume its one of your (women's) many many tests you give men. Did I not address one of your statements? I do believe that was all of them.
@hellionthesagereborn indulge me, tell me who invented double standards from the beginning of time, before when women weren't allowed to vote, work et-cetera?
It is funny because I emphasized, "oh the IRONY of SOME MEN" as the last sentence of my first opinion. If I placed that last sentence as a first sentence, maybe you would not over look my points. Ex: Some men publicly/secretly slut shame women and still go to look for them same type of ladies for casual sex, night stands, FWBs etc. even paying for one and some obsess over porn when they complained about women having too many partners and yet they had not complained when they got pussies from those slut-shamed women, even when
those men were promiscuous themselves. They did not complain when the ladies in porn, strip clubs, dating sites (those with exchange of nudes/half nudes etc.) gave them unlimited entertainment, then they keep talking shit about women altogether, that is a very degrading double standard.
I don't understand your argument. Men couldn't vote either but unlike women they had significant responsibilities that women didn't have and women themselves not only where fine with this but endorsed it, they would not be with a man who did not adhere to the very standards women shirked. Again, I do know history that's why I made the statements I did, I have already addressed these absurd points which could only be made by some one who never actually bothered to learn history instead learning it from the very people who have a vested interest in perpetuating lies and stereotypes. Men only got the right to vote 67 years before women (on the federal level in the US. In England it was only a few years, after WW1 that all men had the right to vote followed by less then ten years after all women having the right to vote) and that was directly linked to the fact that they are forcibly conscripted into police, fire and military services, something of which men are still required to do
and women are not despite us having the "Same" rights (women have considerably more then men technically, including voting as for men it is something they have to sign a social contract to get and as such can be revoked while for women they get it automatically). Women could and did work, that's absurd to suggest otherwise. We have documents dating back to the 1300s with lists of female master blacksmiths, in the 1800s they attempted to make it illegal to have women work inside of the mines (being at the mine and in the pit where fine however) because it was considered to dangerous (not to dangerous for the men and young boys who worked in the mines of course) at which point the female workers called out the government for this and the government reversed its ruling. This shows that one, women could and did work (they simply didn't want to most the time, it was necessity not a want), two, that women where cared about more then men (fear over women's safety) and three, that women had
the power to influence the public and politicians as they immediately rescinded the law at the request of women. So again, I pointed out historical facts to you and you ignored it. Further more women raised men, chose the men who would reproduce and thus had absolute control over how men behave. So again, no men did not create double standards, that's based on what expectations we have for each gender women create them men create them in order to maintain social expectations like women not sleeping around in order to preserve paternity for marriage, women put a double standard on men having more resources in order to ensure women's well being during the child birthing and rearing. Its innate and based upon our biology.
As for your "points" you stated that, "Men are the ones who invented the double standards." I was addressing that point and that point alone. You placed all the blame on men in that sentence and I was pointing out that this was not the case (and its a rather sexist statement in and of itself.). Some men are assholes yes. Some women are bitches, also true. Whats your point? I didn't state that some men are not assholes, I stated that no men did not invent double standards as you claimed. That's it. As for slut shaming women actually do it more often then men do, but yes men do do that. Its because its not beneficial for men to be in a relationship with a promiscuous woman (many studies have shown why that is). Some men, a few men do slut shame then go after sluts, I have argued with a few men like that on this site, but then so what? What does that have to do with this? Women virgin shame men, slut shame women, slut shame men etc. Again, so what? How is that pertinent to this topic?
I mean if you want to talk about degrading double standards I have a whole list of them. Like when you claim men prevented women from working when in reality those women chose not to work, so we get blamed for what women in the past chose to do. Or how feminist claim how female circumcision is wrong despite the fact that not only is it illegal in the western world but we have male circumcision being perfectly legal and forced on us an infancy and thus against our will (and until about 15 years ago it was done without anesthetic). We have to pay for everything and like it but then women claim "equality", but only when its convient as again, they are perfectly happy with the inequality of men having to pay for everything. Then they give the double standard of who ever asks pays knowing that men are going to have to ask women out because women will not generally speaking do so. Then women claim that they should split the bill but if a man accepts that offer the same woman claims the
man clearly isn't interested in her and she dumps him, he then is forced into a catch 22 where either he just declines her offer and she claims moral high ground of offering to pay her share and thus men can't complain because it was his choice or he accepts and she dumps him for being cheap. Then you have the double standard of a man needing a good job yet she doesn't need a good job herself. The list goes on. So that's the issue here, that's the double standards and hypocrisy he is brining up which you are ignoring because you directly benefit from that hypocrisy as a woman.
@hellionthesagereborn that doesn't apply to me. Thanks for your wasted breath.
How so? Also you neglected to mention the whole history remark you made which I then proved wrong.(rather convient forgetting that don't you think?)
I only read the end and that's why so many people are getting divorced these days because of people like you. If you want everything split why get married at all. Prenups start a marriage on the basis of distrust. Guaranteed failure. Marriage literally is sharing your life with someone and becoming one unit. You are obviously single for a reason and don't have the first clue about women. You are too immature to be dating or to marry.
@burpzzzzz that means 70 percent of men are the ones that have pushed the woman in a state she needs to run away from them.
Marriage is dead women are like spoiled children.
bigthink.com/.../are-lesbian-marriages-doomed-for-failure
@Warmapplecrumble I disagree with that - in many of the divorces I know, the woman simply got bored. That's what happens after a couple has been together for several years. My guess would be that a minority of divorces initiated by a woman would be due to DV, infidelity, etc.
@10dsw do you have research articles on that or did you read it on a site?
Advertisement works by making you sad and single = consumerism
... so it all can be propaganda to create population of single people.
@Warmapplecrumble Umm no I have married friends.
@Warmapplecrumble Also I have been in lots of relationships and I prefer being single and hooking up
@10dsw how you know they are telling you the truth, what if they secretly don't want you to have women because they are single and it would make them jealous?
@Warmapplecrumble Guys don't think that way...
Especially guys who are past marriage age holy...
@10dsw don't trust anyone but you and your logic... friends aren't reliable...
@Warmapplecrumble I don't even know what you're talking about lol
The problem with you and most women is that your egos are bigger than the Great wall of China. You're basically saying that out of those 70% of marriages that ended in divorce all of them were the man's fault. How is it that women are perfect and men are always wrong? You don't deserve a happy marriage and you'll never get one
@Tasos96 I do have one child. I didn't say "All men cause divorce." It's any man or woman like yourself who is too confused to have a functional marriage. It's not meant to be a business transaction. What you are looking for is a roommate situation that you have sex with. You're right. YOU won't ever have a marriage nor a happy one with that attitude.
If you are splitting your rent and all this and keeping a tab, what you have is roommate period. People in a marriage shouldn't be keeping tabs on the other to make sure they split every penny. It should be a joint venture. Go watch some Dr. Phil and you'll see how silly it sounds publicly
With what attitude? And you know what I'm perfectly fine without a happy marriage, if it's not possible to find the right person for me. Better no marriage, than bad marriage.
P. S. Having one child doesn't mean you have a marriage let alone a happy one. I suspect something here...
@goddess87 I agree... you can't split finances like that it creates a barrier
Sharing Bank Accounts These Days Is Not A Good Idea, She Will Be In Charge Of The Money, Pay Bills, Shop For Herself And Kids, And When You Shop For Yourself, She Will Yell At You For Spending Money Needlessly...
Prenups Are Good And Bad, I Have Seen Men Lose A House He Has Owned Years Before They Met, She Moved In They Married, She Then Divorced Him And Took His House, Car, Dog And Other Expensive Items All Purchased Prior To Meeting... And He Was Suppose To Trust Her... Right!!!
Guys stay away from the gold diggers who aren't even loyal they will divorce you when it doesn't suit them. There is no point getting married. There is no point even having a relationship. Men can get sex with those anyways.
More men want to die when they are married to shouty women like you. An egg can do better than you... it can get laid.
@Smoothshave Don't marry American women, American women are bitches. European ones are much better.
People shouldn't keep tabs on each other but women are DEMAND their partner to do more housework when he is a major provider or only provider of the house hold. What man in his right mind want to marry women like you? A maid is cheaper.
Not every girl is going to a bitch like that, some like it traditional and chivalrous while others will be cool going Dutch and having separate accounts. They'll want a more progressive guy.
We live in an ever-changing world man full of people with different ideas of how to get along, and yeah some will be bitches.
99% of chics are like this. If this was a random incident I wouldn't post this. This is common. Women's number one shit test is picking dinner..."i dont know..." riiiight.
You did right. Never pay for a low quality woman.
I heard someone talking about this meme and how people debate it all the time. Its funny.
People want "equality", and then want and expect chauvinism on a whim when it if fits them.
Exactly! Good point!
if you guys stopped paying women would stop expecting it, I only let they guy pay on the first date but I still put my money on the table when the check arrives
every guy I've dated gave me my money back and told me He asked me out and I was Not paying but from the second date on I demand to pay at least half of it
I appreciate a treat but he doesn't have to spend money on me unless of course it's chocolate lol who doesn't love getting chocolate? 😂
Yeah but the vast majority of women who do this will immediately dump/reject a guy who accepts, its a catch 22 either he pays and she offered or they split it and he is a cheap skate who clearly isn't interested in her because he accepted her offer of splitting the bill. This happens all the time (hell women have complained about this on this site on several occasions). Whats a man to do when he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't?
I've almost always spkit the bill. Led to long term relationships too.
@hellionthesagereborn I'm sorry you had bad experiences but if a woman won't date you just because you agreed to split the bill then I think it's for the best 😂
@Apope16 that's great :) I think those details are like a prelude of what a relationship would be, if a woman expects you to pursue her and pay for everything that's how she's gonna be as a girlfriend..
of course it must not be true for 100% of the cases, it's just what I've seen so far
Its not my experiences, this is quite literally what has been stated by others and the vast majority of them where women.(Their was one poster here for instance who offered to split the bill and when the guy accepted she asked if she should even bother going on aa second date with him.). Also, as I mentioned 80% of women surveyed stated they wanted the man to pay. That's just the nature of things.
"if you guys stopped paying women would stop expecting it"
I agree. Enough guys insistently do that to women to create the dynamic. Of course people want things for free (males with take things for free too!). If guys did that for girls rent or mortgage, I doubt there would be much resistance either.
if the guy has no money, YOU pay. YOU help him. Then he HELPS you. Make it a Win-Win
@cavmanier exactly, I hear (male) friends complain all the time about "having" to pay but things are not gonna change if they don't stop it lol free stuff it's hard to resist but it's unfair to make things one sided
@Epictimmytam that's up to me to decide and I don't think I would unless I was in a relationship with him and if I wasn't I'd rather go for a picnic or a coffe on the park, it's cheap and a nice way to get to know each other
From now on women must sign a contract with me: if I listen to her stories and pay for her dinner she must blow me.
Sounds like the gold digger from hell. Since 18 , I've (never) dated... although I've maintained 3 Ltr's and 1 marriage. I eliminated the dating process altogether to avoid such issues as this one. Works wonders...
nah she's a total douche. woman or man, no matter. in my books women still have to be charming, generous, sweet and adventurous. they have to try. i know girls like her and they are DOUCHES that I avoid like the plague. and so should you. no touchie!
"Time for women to court men" - which was what she did... but I think that anyone who ask another person out, but expect ye, yardless of gend
Excuse my malfunctioned keyboard...
"Time for women to court men" - which was what she did... but I think that anyone who ask another person out, but expect the other person to pay, lacks social etiquette, regardless of gender.
A man asked me out to eat for the first time, but did nothing when the bill was given to us. He watched me as I paid for both of us. Later on, I questioned him how he let a woman pay. I don't expect nor require a man to pay when we go out, but I'm fine with splitting. I said to him that he should have at least offered to pay, not letting a woman pay. He said one time I paid, and the next he would pay. ... but why was I the first to pay, not him? He was clearly taking advantage of me, and I didn't think he would pay the next time, as I didn't believe we would go out again, plus I wouldn't go out with him again as I was very disappointed in him.
I know a female that went out with a man, letting him pay $400+ for a dinner, then later on said she was not interested in him... Both of these 2 examples show that you can tell how a person's manner is. I think that gender equality is important, and it should not be either a man or a woman who's paying on a date.
It's cool. I write typos all of the time.
Yes. If you ask someone out. Its pretty bad if you don't offer to pay a dime. I'd say in my longest dating relationship (1 year and 2 years) I offered to split the meal in the early stages before being official. It set the terms early. For whatever reason, it worked out for me. But not offering to pay at all is shocking. That has been my experience and as a guy I have felt used.
Actually, literally last night I was with two extremely hot blonde female co workers. They were twins. And they openly talked to the other ladies in the group that they flirt with guys to get free meals and drinks. Right in front of me!
This is why I have chosen to stay single. Women are so immature and selfish, it's just not worth the hassle anymore. Let the muslims have them.
I don't even want equality if this is what happens to relationships. 😂
"People who ask to meet for coffee rather than the night life are asking to be friendzoned"
So you're saying I am guaranteed to be friend zoned since I refuse to drink alcohol?
They use double standards to get all possible advantages and so it will alway's be.
Thank GOD, i ve never met a jerk like u...
Nobody owe u anything, cope with that!
If u can't afford to pay for meal for ur girlfriend-then u will never get one
So he isn't owed anything but women are? I'm sorry but I don't follow that reasoning.
@hellionthesagereborn
Nobody owe anyone anything...
I have absolutely no prob to pay for myself, but, when i see guy who i date do it (his decision), i can tell, that he cares for me, want to make an impression on me and interested in me...
Then later in rel-ship, i can buy anything or he, sometimes i even want to buy to make him feel good...
Its just how healthy rel-ship develop...
If guy from the beginning r like u, count everything, who pay who not, then sorry, but i better dont date that guy...
But thanks god, i ve never met anyone like u
Okay well you said he was a jerk because he was upset that she wanted him to pay, wanted him to do all the planning etc so how is that not her expecting something from him, believing it is owed to her? Further more him doing all of this for you shows he cares, fair enough, what are you doing in the mean time? I mean what have you done to show you care? Why is the gesture one sided? Why do we live in a society where women demand equality then conviently stop wanting that equality when they want free stuff from men? That's the problem here, their is a huge discrepancy between what men have to do and what women do in these situations (namely he does everything and she takes everything). I mean don't you think that's a bit unfair? He is being forced to pay because he knows, as you have admitted, that she will not take him seriously if he doesn't so he has to do it if he wants a relationship but what is she/you giving in return?
I mean, despite popular belief, men don't like feeling used, they don't want to be a womans paycheck. So what is she to do to give him the same sense of investment that he is giving her? I mean it has to go both ways or its not really equality and its not really fair, its a sexist double standard and an entitlement women believe they deserve rather then a mutual investment.
@hellionthesagereborn I don't know where u meet that girls, who can't afford to buy themselves a food and they go to date for 1 reason -free food...
I really don't know where those girls exist and why they so poor so that they want a free food
Multiple women on this site have stated that, its not me its not some anecdotal personal experience, its quite literally women themselves stating this. I'm just pointing it out. Then you have other women who use these men for free food like this one: abcnews.go.com/.../story?id=15107409
Or this one: www.huffingtonpost.ca/.../...ating-_n_4173996.html
@hellionthesagereborn i don't open unknown sites
so for myself I can say, If I really like guy and he invites me out and we eat in restaurant or café, the fact that he pays for me would be the fact that he likes me. i don't live in 3rd world country to expect a free food.
if i don't like this guy, i will not let him pay.
If guy i like didn't pay, i ll pay for myself, but it will be the last time he sow me
Those are news sites. It literally says it in the link abc news and huffington post. Their not unknown they are well estabilished. So yeah, that's exactly what I said, you feel entitled to his money and if he doesn't give it you will not give him the time of day so you do feel like women are entiteled to his money but she/you are not entitled to give anything back in return. So you want the free food. I don't understand why you would claim that you don't then immediately turn around and admit that you do, its really confusing.
@hellionthesagereborn
And what u want from girls?
U stupid? I told u many times, its not about money, its about how he treat me, i can fucking buy those salads and coffee myself.
I bet u never had girlfriend, or if u had-then ugly old sugar mommy, who desperate for anything that happen to be males. U r gigollo, alfonso (male who live with sugar mommies)
Fuk off, alfons
Okay yes you said its not about you not being able to buy the food yourself, but then you turned around and stated that he had to do so in order for you to ever pay attention to him or be with him ergo you want his money. Okay you say its a way for him to show he cares, him wanting to spend time with you, complimenting you etc isn't enough for you, he has to spend money, he has to buy your affections by your own admission. So if that's all he can do to acquire your affections then that means you want his money, not his time, not his affections, his money. I have no sugar mommas or anything else like that. What I stated is that your argument does not hold up to scrutiny. If he has to pay for your affections what are you paying him? What does he get out of it? Are you putting out if he pays for dinner? I'm guessing not. Are you cooking him homemade dinners? No because then he wouldn't be spending money on you. So what are you doing to show your investment?
What are you doing to show that he is not a paycheck but a potential partner? Nothing, you are doing nothing. Why not just get a hooker then? I mean they are probably cheaper and they are absolutely going to give sex unlike you who will absolutely take his money and then probably give nothing back. If he has to prove himself to you why don't you have to prove yourself to him? Because its inconvient for you to do so. If you did that then it wouldn't be a one sided situation now would it? You would actually have to do something for some one else and that thought is revolting to you, to have to earn a persons affections, to have to prove your worth to him. Personally I have no problem with a man paying, I have a problem with women who take take take and then expect that they shouldn't have to give anything in return. That's called entitlement, the very thing you said men should not have, perhaps because you want to keep that entitlement for yourself.
In short, he pays for your time, that makes you an escort, and considering that your not putting out it makes you a pretty shitty one, your failing twice.
If we are still fighting about equalities and feminism men and women might hate each other more and more and till the end, the human race has gone extinct.
The fact that you talk as if all women are the same is incredibly off-putting and condescending
kind of like how when girls say "ugh ALL guys are all assholes who use girls". Even though some guys in this world are virgins.
@Armourdillo I don't disagree with that. But two wrongs don't make a right. They're both embarrasing and discriminatory attitudes.
The way forwards after being lumped in with all the scumbags is not to stereotype the other side and make them feel how you were made to
I'm not saying either is right, it's just that guys have to put in extra effort to prove their not a sexist pig, while girls are innocent until proven bitchy
@Armourdillo not true. Women do not have it easier than men
I'm not saying they do. I bet girls get approached by creeps and rapists all the time and it sucks. But it doesn't make begin a beta male and having to watch everyone else live life while having to sit there alone feel like a good thing
It's actually pretty common.
@burpzzzzz which part?
If you know what your looking for you can suss out a no-user in seconds. Just let them talk they give it away in a few seconds. They can't help it
Stop it. YOIre making yourself look bad and bitter and pathetic
That's why I'm asking how to be happy about being rejected, because im sad about being rejected im a bitter pathetic beta like you say. But real alpha men are never sad, im trying to stop it, but i need to learn how, hence why im asking.
@Armourdillo in my opinion the best way to get over rejection is to ask another girl out. And if necessary, ask another after that... rinse and repeat until you find someone who is interested in you.