Is chivalry sexist, according to the principles of feminism and masculism?

[damionrain100]

I keep hearing of feminists who fight for equality and expect chivalry. I always tell them that they are being highly hypocritically sexist, since chivalry puts an unfair expectation on men to treat women a certain way, some women define it as respect. However, they don't quenstion why we find it as respectful? Why must a man pay for a woman's meal or why is it strongly advised for a man to pay for a woman's meal? Why must I open her car door, when taking her out on a date? Why must I hold the door open, in general? People say it is courtesy. However, this "courtesy" has historically been rooted in sexism. Can women be chivalrous too? Yes. But it is not on them to be chivalrous because historically chivalry has constrained men. Some women will state the person who asks is the person who pays. Yet, most women don't tend to ask men on dates. Why don't women pull out chairs for men? Why don't women hold car doors open for men? Because they are not expected to. Historically, chivalry was geared towards men because men but society has changed. This is why women are not expected to be chivalrous. So is chivalry sexist by the standards of feminism and masculism?

Yes

No

Updates

+1 y

I like how most men think the answer is no. Are you men saying no because of your values or because of logic?

[shyguy227]

To be rather fair chivalry (the way I have been brought up to believe ) Is pretty much is actions of showing mutual and even further positive respect for your fellow man. Its not that chivalry is dead in the modern age it is just that it is simply changed and transformed over the years and in this day and age we simply do not need to protect the maiden fair any more like yee olden times.

To me simply holding doors for people, helping them with a chair or any other form of gestures that you could called using chivalry is pretty much me going out of my own personal way to show some one I personally respect that person and am fond of them, be that via friendship, relationship and so on.

That being said since my own mother brought me up rather well considering the situation she has said that I should choose who I show the kind of actions to. I mean any one I choose to go out of my way for more than on once occasion has had to earn my admiration, respect and trust and if the situation does arise where I feel a person is taking advantage is simply without cause a fuss stop acting that way towards some one in a non aggressive manner and go on my way.

Having chivalry in the modern age is a good thing to have on my personal view but should only be given to those you feel deserve this personal choice to act this way.

If people or feminists dislike it if you show chivalry then the only thing i can respectfully is go to town.

Do not sell yourself short : )

[damionrain100]

So you are basing your opinions off of emotions not logic (your upbringing). The question was is chivalry sexist based on feminism and masculism, not your emotions?

[shyguy227]

Nope in my own logic people should have chivalry form some one if they deserve it no matter the gender pure and simply. I have had a rather egalitarian upbringing.

In general feminists say yes its sexist due to the fact that it objectifies the women and is apart of the patriarchy

masculism says let the women pull out their dam own chair and pay her own way and such things like that from what I understand

I simply say act as you wish, you wanna show some one chivalry then do it if not then don't do it, people shouldn't have the right to tell you how to be or act. They like me are entitlement to an opinion but not the right to dictate how other humans should live their life.

Agree or disaree its pretty much all down to personal prospective of the person at the end of the day I think.

[damionrain100]

With that logic, if it was down to someone personal perspective then i could say "expecting women to only be in my kitchen is not sexist."

[shyguy227]

Well if that is your opinion you are allowed it, do I have to personally have to agree with you? Nope not in the slightest way possible. Gotta love the power of free will right? : P

[damionrain100]

Okay so let me ask you this Do you believe that women should hold doors open for you? Split the bill with you? Pick you up at the door? and pull out chairs for you?

[shyguy227]

If she wants to genuinely do this then yes I would approve of this personally but not if she was forced to do.

[damionrain100]

Do you believe that men are forced to be chivalrous? Because if they don't in my view they are typically seen as less masculine. For instance, when a man doesn't pay for a date, other men shame him

[shyguy227]

Perhaps a decade ago that may have been the case where a man had to appear macho to gain respect considering this day and age the lines have become some what blurred on the matter as a whole with groups such as feminism and masculism and other types of groups of a similar nature popping up over the past few years.

Simple to say as long as the man is comfortable with his own personal masculinity that is all that should really matter to the individual really.

[damionrain100]

So do you shame men for not paying for the first date?

[shyguy227]

What another man does on a first date is his concern not mine, he is allowed to make is how personal choices on the matter has to accept the outcome of any given situation that may arise from it not me.

[shyguy227]

*his own

[Anonymous]

Common courtesy is not the same as chivalry, as common courtesy is expected by both genders. Chivalry is only expected by men. That means chivalry is a gender role. Since chivalry is a male gender role, it is therefore sexist according to modern feminism which claims to fights against gender roles. Most feminists would be very offended if they were told they needed to run head opening all of the doors for men, pulling out the man's chair so he can sit down, etc just because they were born as girls.

Any role placed upon the woman is seen as degrading to women, while any role placed on the man is viewed differently. Some even flip it around so much they claim the male gender role of chivalry is actually an insult that means the woman is too weak to do those things herself.

Feminist ideals were created by people with a lot of gender bias. You put the same restraints on both genders and they will come up with different answers. This is why they think women doing something for men because of her gender is degrading, but when a man does something because of his gender for a woman it is never seen as degrading for the man. They are not holding us to the same standards. Everything is about twisting reality to make women look like the victim instead of looking at it fairly and logically.

[Rawrzz]

Couldn't have said it better myself. But, you'll probably be called a misogynist for this post.

[Opinion Owner]

Any guy that believes in equality gets called a misogynist eventually. That is just how our modern culture is. Although I do see this mindset changing with the younger generation.

[Lena19]

It's not sexist. Being chivalrous is basically being common courteous to the other individual, both sides need to participate in it. If you don't want to pay for her meal, tell her before the date and discuss maybe splitting it. Though that's what my ex and I did and it worked great.

[LolliesChan]

It's sexist to think only men should tend to chivalry. If it goes both ways then that's respect and courtesy. I would never expect someobe to pay for my meal. If I get asked out on a date and don't have money I will ask if we can push the date forward or if I can pay him/her back.

[Jessicocoa]

Yes, I do believe the concept of chivalry is sexist and outdated.

[Anonymous]

You should try creating your own form of chivalry. I hold doors for everyone. I sometimes pay for my friends food. During dates I talk about paying for dates with a girl before actually doing it. A lot of them like the gesture but dislike the expectations. After talking to a few I quit purchasing thier food. It no longer felt chivalrous just unnecessary. But I still open car doors cause shit sometimes it's cute. I still give up my jacket in the rain and pull the car around cause hey no big deal for me. Just talk to people about it girls aren't monsters

[damionrain100]

Then you are assuming it is common courtesy. You are not basing your opinion off of logic. You are basing them off of emotions. Your common courtesy is define by old standards that, historically, come from sexism

[Opinion Owner]

Lol dude in correct. My common courtesy is born from bhuddism. I like being a helping hand even in the tiniest situations. I'd give a dude a coat in the rain if he need it but 9 times outta 10 he's gonna look at me kinda crazy and assume I'm hitting on him. I get what your saying I'm just saying it's a worthless argument. Your getting heated over some really irrelevant shit. If you don't wanna do that stuff then don't do it plain and simple. It sounds like at this point you'renot trying to choose how to act you just want to be right. And even if you are is it really going to change much?

[Mesonfielde]

Yes, chivalry by definition is benevolent sexism. Have you seen a female ever be "chivalrous" towards a male? No! That is called general courtesy, and it is not the same!

Therefore it is indeed hypocritical. If we want TRUE equality, then chivalry must perish. It comes off as trying too hard anyways.

[AssholeNumberOne]

Here's the solution. Ask if women or ANYONE wants special treatment from you before doing it, eg, on a first date; "do you want me to pay all the time?"

I hate special treatment, but it varies. That's why you should always ask.

[JackKerouac77]

Chivalry needs to be expected for both genders!

Genderqueers get nothing!

[GloriaS]

Why the hell would chivalry be sexist? It doesn't hurt anyone.