I frame things in a way early on so she doesn't just assume I'm paying for her. So when I say, "two checks" at the end we're all good. I've had one girl my entire life actually have a problem with it and that happened to be the worst date of my life before that point lol.
But yes, for me I wouldn't date a girl like that again. Because of how I do things it would actually be weird for the girl to assume she's not paying for herself.
I do that mostly because 1. As a matter of principle I feel as if my time is enough for a girl. If she has a monetary requirement to spend time with me, then she doesn't really like me anyways and I'm wasting my time.
2. At no point in time is the girl pressured to do anything for me. Whatever she does she will do purely because she truly wants to. It's not something transactional.
3. If things don't workout I won't feel like I "wasted" my money on her. Because the reality is that's exactly how a lot of guys feel if nothing happens, even in a relationship after a breakup. If a guy spent money on a girl he'll think about the "wasted" investment. Because the reality is he was trying to buy her love. I want to stay away from that shit.
I'll spend money on a girl who is my girlfriend and I never regret it, even if we break up. I was in love. She loved me. We spent money on eachother for the sake of the relationship. That's different than spending money in hopes someone will like you for it.
I read an article a while back from a woman about who should pay on the first date. The article writer was actually writing about herself and her first date that she had the other night. Long story short... they had a great time and the date lasted like 4 hours. Problem was they had a really really good time and the bill came to $130.00. The man said wow hey want to split this with me? The writer said sure no problem. They split the bill. I wish the story ended there but it didn't. She continued with the story by saying she got really turned off by him asking to split the bill. She got so turned off that she ended up ghosting him. LOL if guys are expected to foot the bill like this they won't get very far in their search for love.. they will go broke though. My advice.. first dates should always be coffee dates or similar.
I'm an adult who prefers traditional men. So i don't ask men out and thus i do not pay. I think the asker pays. Having said that I'd be cool going for a cup of coffe or even just a walk that is "free". So its not about money. Its about the asker taking rhe effort to plan and execute said plan.
A guy who lets a woman pay or goes dutch on a first date isn't necessarily a bad guy. But a man who does this does have different personality traits then one who refuses and insists on paying. I know i am attracted to a guy who pays.
I used to offer, and it typically just led me to dating people for multiple dates I shouldn't have. Not bad guys... but guys who's personalities didn't mesh with mine. In addition, a guy friend of mine said, "why are you even offering? By offering you're just saying you don't think you're worth it." Which is true given my personality. I can imagine this would not be the same case for a women who offered to pay with a different demeanor and personality then my own. So i don't think its bad to offer, but it has to be sincere and true to who you are and true to the type of guy you want to attract.
Actually I think the contrary though not strictly. If a woman doesn't offer to pay at least, then I consider her someone who doesn't bother to invest in me or even thought about it. Basically the value I put in her doesn't mirror the value she put in me and thus makes me feel worthless compared to her.
Honestly that disgusts me in a sense because if we were to continue that relationship, I will always be at the bottom rung rather than an equal standing.
@Nivinxus this is why you and i would never date. We are two different. I'm no shortage of men who have asked me to marry them and or date them, so its just your opinion and those of a few boys on here i wouldn't date eithe, not a rule to find a quality guy.
The problem is you judge people who dont do things by your rules. I simply think we should do what gets us the type of mate we want and will make us happy, regardless if that means our actions and choices aren't the same
@Nivinxus also, your value should be within you. If a girls actions effect it i reccomend working on working on you. Your theory also means that you wouldn't date a woman who might not be wealthy enough to keep up with your lifestyle. That's concerning but your choice
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. The point here is, I have standards as well and you seem to think that a woman must be monetarily stable enough to date me. Stupidity aside, it's the gesture that is important. Of course I'm going to judge someone who doesn't invest into my standards, just as they will judge me when I invest into their standards. That's dating in a nutshell. After all, that's the whole point of finding an idea partner.
Yes, we wouldn't date, not because I think you are poor or anything. It's either because you give the vibe of being too traditionalist, lack initiative or in worst cases, I find you too pretentious (which I doubt). I do judge harshly to be fair, but if that is what it means to find happiness, I wouldn't mind taking the scenic route.
@Nivinxus a person who makes a "gesture" with no intent to follow through is just a fool. So really, its not about the gesture, because no one, regardless of differing standards, is particularly fond of a fool.
But then you go onto agree with my point. My dating approach is very traditional. Not because it "works" or its "right", but because it reflects me. And THAT is the biggest reason people dont have successful relationships. They aren't real. so I'm confused why thats a "disgusting" thing to you? Just because other people do things outside of your immediate world that you don't get doesn't mean your judgement is appropriate or warranted. Unless it directly effects you, i dont see why the condemnation. A world of only people like yourself with only your opinions seems... limiting.
Gesture with no intent... I stopped reading right there because you seem blind to the point I'm making. Whatever, let's just agree to disagree because it appears you and I seem to have different way of conveying the message.
To be honest and I know this will sound shitty. I absolutely expect a man to pay for the first date. It would turn me off if he wanted me to pay half. Reason being is, I've never asked a man out, I've always been the one asked out. If you ask me out then I feel you should pay for the date. Now I don't expect to go to some five star restaurant and end up with a 300 dollar bill. I'm more than happy going somewhere really casual where the bill is 20/30 dollars. However, after the first date I have no problem paying half or he pays for dinner and I pay for the movie or whatever. I think after the first date it's more than reasonable to split things. I'm not a prostitute and he's not an ATM. I shouldn't expect him to pay for everything just like he should expect me to have sex anytime he snaps his fingers. The goal in dating is a long term relationship which is a partnership. It's not much of a partnership if you're unwilling to take on some of the responsibilities.
So does that mean if he wants to have sex on the first date you let him? Because that is what I'm getting from this. You expect him to pay on the first date and act traditional but after that you will split things. So guess that mean on the first date if he pays then you're ok with him demanding sex from you? I didn't think so.
You are a hypocrite. You expect men to treat you like you are special because you are a women when it is in your favor but when it is your turn to play a more traditional role you don't want to go with it. You're literally asking for special treatment. The best thing is your last line shows how hypocritical you are. "It's not much of a partnership if you're unwilling to take on some of the responsibilities." Which is exactly what you are doing avoiding responsibilities in a relationship ie paying your share of the date. Let me guess you call yourself a strong independent woman too?
@LeoLionEye traditionally men wooed women and women waited for marriage. So your traditional shit just went out the window.
Also, I did say this. "However, after the first date I have no problem paying half or he pays for dinner and I pay for the movie or whatever. " So how exactly am I a hypocrite? Just said I'd pay my share didn't I?
Yeah but you won't on the first date. You even said "I absolutely expect a man to pay for the first date." So it's mandatory for guys to pay for you on the first date. Sorry but that makes you seem entitled. And in turn it makes you a hypocrite because you believe a man owes you something (paying your share of the date) while on a date, but you however believe you don't owe a man anything on a date. That makes you a hypocrite and seem very entitled. As well as if you think you are better them men and they owe you something. Why if there is no second date? Guess you just used the guy for a free meal then.
I agree with ur statement. The guys who take offense are just broke and self centered and expect everyrhing to be handed to them with no effort.. if im asked out on a date i will expect him 2 pay, i will sometimes offer and just because there isn't a 2nd date doessnt mean u use someone for a meal it just so happened it didn't work out.. its not intential. Most men are gentlemens and always offer to pay its these irrogant men that get on here n say ur a prostitute for a meall. Heck i buy peoples food all the time.. around here someone pays for a random persons meal its called paying it forward.. if i invite my girl. Friend to eat i will buy her food because i asked her to go.. if she dont have the $... these men are literally complaining about having to spend 10 or 15 on some food for a woman is absolutely disgusting.. that shows me you dont want to put forth any effort into me.. if im not worth a 10$ meal your not worth my time.. simple as that
@MeganForreal It isn't about the money. It's about the principal. Why do you consider your time more valuable then a guy's time to the point that you feel like he must pay for everything just to spend time with you? I don't care what you think of me and think I'm cheap or not a gentleman because I know you don't know me and that you are wrong. That and because you're opinion doesn't mean anything to me since you just come across as a woman who feels entitled to me. No man wants that. So from where I'm standing you're the undesirable one. Also only $10 on a date? And you call me cheap and broke haha.
Gosh ur pathetic.. u really are u have to be insane to come up with ur logic.. 10$ im cheapp. No your cheap for not wanting to pay.. most sit down restraunts is 10-15 as on first dates ur normally not going out to a super nice place.. i dont think my time is more valuable i actually dont think that at all. I was raised that the man works and the woman stays at home n raises the kids.. i am old fashioned im 35yrs old and every date i have ever beem on in my entire life the guy has always paid.. even when i did offer at times.. only 1 did a guy ask me to go dutch.. which i ovetlooked because i wanted to give him a shot but then he started whining about 5$ in gas and that i needed to drive my own car to his house which proves my point.. men like that dont want to put forth any effort at all.. and thats not my type.. you are outnumbered if you haven't looked throuvh this thread almost all men say they pay.. so im not the minority here u are and ur attitude..
When I ask somebody to go out with me, even just friends, I am expecting to pay. All the same, it means a lot to me when my friend or the guy pays his share. Though I think asking means you should expect and offer to pay for the other person too, I also think the person who agreed to come along should pay their part. That being said, I think it’d be more polite and would say really great things about the girl if she offers to split the bill on a first date. Even so, I don’t think it’s unfair for her not to pay if the guy was the one who was asking her out. Personally, I’ll always offer to split and every now and then I’ll want to treat my guy. I know that my last boyfriend would get upset if I didn’t let him treat me at times though, so we didn’t always split, but I always offered.
I always offer but I had one instance when one of my female friends got me to agree to a blind date so she could go on a date with this guy but he wanted his friend to come along. I got turned off when she told me she uses guys for food and entertainment - a reason why she usually didn't have food in her fridge. Then that same night, she claimed she had a headache and I was left to entertain both guys since we were playing pool. Girls like this are a turn off even for a friend, so I can imagine the impression they leave on a guy.
It's largely a non-issue. If she wants to pay for her meal, I'd rather she offer to do it before the date, while we're making the arrangements rather than when it's time to pay. If she expects me to pay (which is my expectation anyway), I'd rather that she just says nothing, because I'll do it anyway.
I stopped offering because guys never take me up on it when i did. What’s the point in offering when they always say no? It’s dumb. Men end up paying anyway so why are you turned off if she doesn’t offer? If you plan on paying, male or female, then don’t expect the other person to offer.
No it’s not. Courtesy is shown through politeness and behavior. How is offering to pay when you know you aren’t going to courteous? Courtesy is displayed on the date, not on the check.
Oh I definitely think that you should always be able to pay. I'm not saying you'll offer just for the sake of it. But if you didn't expect to pay for something you enjoy, you shouldn't be doing that thing
No I don't expect her to pay for anything or even offer. When she pays for things or insists on paying I take that as a signal that she's not into me and she doesn't want to feel obligated.
The best thing I had happen was when I had a girl see a need and fulfill it with her own money without me asking. We were driving and the sun was in my eyes. When we were out at the markets she bought me sun glasses. It was a huge turn on for me.
On this subject I dislike it when people won't accept anything as a gift. My soon to be ex-wife notoriously ruined every Christmas by returning almost every gift that I gave her.
At a first date i will ALWAYS offer to pay for half. Saying something like "what's my half?" When the bill comes and if he insits to pay, fair do's. I'll let him pay, but as far as i'm concerned there's no need for the man to always pay. It's nice to have food paid for but ut's not a neccessity to me. I don't mind paying my half of the bill.
The reason I chose "Depends" is because if the female I date can have the following: 1. She have an embarrassing moment of forgetting her funds from either her personal issue (s), rushed to look stunning for the courtship, or does not have enough. 2. If I asked a girl to go on a courtship with me, it signifies mostly toward me to actually treat her well and worry about the funds and let her enjoy the time with me to recognize that it's about her as a princess to me. 3. If the girl just acts impolite, rude, or any category along those lines, I would still pay the meal but will not have any courtship, dates, or any close relation with the lady except friends or acquaintances. It really depends and how we, as males would react to the situation and the thoughtfulness in our motive towards our decision (s). Hopefully that helps in some sort of way!
It's a turn off for me, even though I'll pay anyway. It's more the sense of entitlement and the hypocrisy that annoys me than paying for the date. Most of these women talking shit about guys who want a girl to go dutch also wanna complain about gender equality and male entitlement, this is the same thing. I also just can't understand this idea that if someone asks you out they pay - if anybody asks me out anywhere, it doesn't matter who it is whether it's a girl, a man, family members, friends etc. I expect to pay my way rather than sponge off of them. I can't imagine expecting to sponge off of someone and then calling the "cheap" if they thought I'd be paying for myself. It should be appreciated as a nice gesture, not as an expectation.
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Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
I can't believe the number of cheapskate men who expect a girl to pay on a 1st date when it is most likely he has asked her to go out with him.
Later when a relationship has developed and is flourishing then sure, if the girl offers to contribute, or says ''it's my turn this time" then great.
Imho, the sense of entitlement some guys have nowadays is quite sad... whatever happened to wooing a girl, where is the romance?
Wonder how many men who EXPECT a girl to share costs on a 1st date - and get upset if she doesn't - will eventually end up alone and embittered, all because they lack a sense of romance?
I don't mind paying for the first date. However, i DO mind if she EXPECTS me to pay and doesn't even offer to split. I mean c'mon. This is the first date, we barely know each other. And since this is the first date, this is probably the nicest she's going to be to me, and she won't even offer to split? Says a lot about what a relationship with her would be like.
I mean, if a girl expects that I have to pay for a date, that technically means she thinks I have to pay for spending time with her.. that's not how relationships work. At least not in my opinion. It's a two way street.
For me personally it is a bit of a turn off. It makes her seem like she thinks she's entitled. Kind of like she's just playing me for a free meal. It wouldn't necessarily mean I won't want a second date but it will severely hurt her chances. If she does it again then nah it's done. I don't want a woman who can't pay for her share and expects me to pay for it. If she's going to be like that then she also better be willing to put out for it too since that's how traditionally it works right? I know it's not, I'm just joking. Bit it's kind of the same thing as what she is pulling.
On a first date, if he invited me I expect him to pay but I always offer to pay for my half, if I invited him then I pay for it and i expect him to offer to pay, but I wouldn't let him. Basically whoever invited the other person pays, that way if we both initiate equally then we both pay the same.
That's the thing, most women have asked a guy out before. In all my life, I have asked out 3. One being successful. When i did go out on that date, I ended up paying for the two of us to see a movie and get dinner. He offered to pay, but I said no. The next date was initiated by him, he reached for the bill, I offered to pay, he said no and paid. That's how it should be. After that most of our dates were held at one of our houses so it didn't cost either of us anything.
My observation? I am a woman, I'm basing it off my own experience. If you're going to accuse me of basing my opinion solely on observations at least take into account that your opinion is also based on observations since you can't speak for every man.
Look at the amount of men who say it never happens. I could ask a question right now and the vast majority would say they never have or at most once in their life especially if they're older. It's just a rare thing.
Men on gag are hardly representative of the entire male population. You have to take into account different languages, countries with poor internet access, and the fact that most of the people who are online on a random app on any given Friday night instead of going out are those who may have more time on their hands because they may not be the kind of people who get asked a lot.
And time zones. There are several factors. Honestly any statistics gathered from this site are hardly evidence of anything because there's no way to account for all the variables.
Ask just about any man, anywhere. I guarantee that the vast majority would agree with me. I am very confident with that, because in MOST cultures, MOST women take the passive role in dating. There are tons of stories, resources, and examples that I can search with a google search.
I have no idea, but I know that doesn't make my point irrelevant. There are plenty of men who have told me they prefer a women who isn't forward because it gives the idea that they are "easy" obviously I dont take that to heart and most women probably don't either. To suggest that I am scamming men into paying for my food simply because the majority of initiating is done by men is ridiculous. I have never been asked out by a man first, I've always been the one initiating when I found i liked someone. Keep in mind my opinion is not THE set guide on how to do things. If you want to do it differently then fine, but I initiate a lot so this is a method that works for me and it ends up being completely equal and fair.
Tons of women take it to heart. It's a very common theme. What I said was for the majority of women. Women simply initiate less frequently than men. A significant number never do. Those are facts. There are no numbers denying this. Yes YOU might ask men out, but you're the exception rather than the rule.
I think you fail to realize you are the one who replied to my comment talking about myself and what works for me. I literally answered the question with my opinion and your only argument against it is that that's just my opinion. Well no shit it's my opinion, because that's exactly what it was intended to be. Since when is my opinion the guideline everyone should follow?
I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to the idea of "who asks, pays" I see that comment a lot and I pointed out that some women do that, then never ask anyone out. Which makes it a catch 22
It's not a catch 22 you have no idea who I am and how often i ask out guys. Again, these are not rules of thumb that absolutely everyone will use. This is my opinion that I have formed based off of what works for me, and if it turns out to be completely equal even though the majority of women dont do the same then why is it a problem? Why aren't you supporting women who ask out men if it's something you care so much about?
Once again, for the last time, it's a catch 22 in general for most women. I don't care at all if women initiate. I can initiate myself. I just point out nonsense when I see it.
That's the thing, never once in my post did I mention it was applicable for all women. But it is applicable for me, stop acting like you have a moral high ground here. You went into this and criticized me because you didn't know me, you "called out my bullshit" when you were just assuming that I am just like most women. That is not something to take pride in.
I completely agree. If the woman doesn't offer to pay her share she was not raised correctly. If the man doesn't pay for her he was not raised correctly. There is a lot to be said in the offer. He raises a good point when he mentions the fact that the first date is the most polite this person is ever going to be. There is a lot to be said about how someone acts on their first date. This is when the red flags are the most important to catch.
I love those bits too and yes we need to watch for red flags that show a person’s character. I live everything he says here - like how he says you should be treating your partner like your best friend and you wouldn’t expect your best friend to always pay. I also loved his talk about if she can’t contribute equally (eg he earns a lot more and wants to take her to nicer places than she can afford) she should still try to contribute. I love how he says it’s not about the money it’s about the lack of gesture. I always offer, all guys I have dated will decline the offer on the first date and pay. But next opportunity to pay I usually do, some guys are not comfortable with it.
i prefer when it isn't assumed i will pay, but i tend to offer to... i like the idea that the person who invited someone to a place pays, but i am not really bent out of shape about money unless i feel that i am being used...
I tend toward the "traditional" in some situations. However if she expresses "feminist" views and equality then I expect this to extend to all aspects. I don't care for cherry-picking when it comes to such things. Treat women with the respect they deserve based on their personality/actions.
You have to do the "check dance" at the end of the night it's the only way to know if she's the one fr lol.. It's how I met my current girl.. Did the whole check dance till she let me pay unknowingly she's already paid for it all already.. Then the waiter takes my money and brings back icecreams and some change I'm looking at him like wtf is this.. And she's just outside waiting looking at me like hurry up bruh.. From that moment on I knew she had to be mind
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
If she's working, and she doesn't offer to pay, I'd have to think about if I want to continue dating her
I always pay, it's the mans job to pay.. but, she MUST at least offer to pay, but only if she's working. If she's not currently working, id have to ask myself if I even want to be out on a date with her
If i knew she was not well off financially, then its ok. But if she has enough spare cash, and she expects me to pay, nope. Outta sight, outta mind. Not that i dont offer to pay, i always will, but i think its kinda basic consideration to at least offer.
After 20 years of marriage I re-entered the dating scene. I have yet to have a women pay for a drink or a meal. That covers women from 28-53 YO. But then again I am old school, and generally would cover it anyway. But it would be nice once and awhile.
depends on who started. If she asked me out and said "hey you want to have dinner?" then she pays (I will totally offer though) If I ask her out it usually looks something like "hey *dies a little on the inside* you want to have dinner your choice *fk kill me now please be sensible and don't pick that 5 star restaurant that costs 300 dollars for 1 person*? the * is me thinking after saying something.
I expect each other to pay half. Or if someone pays for one thing pay for another. That shit adds up with bills, life, gas, spending money forever on someone would just be exhausting, especially if you don't even know if its going to work long term.
I thhave bk for a first date it would be nice for the man to pay. I would definitely offer to pay my half and wouldn’t necessarily expect him to pay. I would be prepared. However when in a relationship I would want to pay for food or whatever we are doing every now and then.
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