Actually I think the contrary though not strictly. If a woman doesn't offer to pay at least, then I consider her someone who doesn't bother to invest in me or even thought about it. Basically the value I put in her doesn't mirror the value she put in me and thus makes me feel worthless compared to her.Honestly that disgusts me in a sense because if we were to continue that relationship, I will always be at the bottom rung rather than an equal standing.
@Nivinxus this is why you and i would never date. We are two different. I'm no shortage of men who have asked me to marry them and or date them, so its just your opinion and those of a few boys on here i wouldn't date eithe, not a rule to find a quality guy. The problem is you judge people who dont do things by your rules. I simply think we should do what gets us the type of mate we want and will make us happy, regardless if that means our actions and choices aren't the same
@Nivinxus also, your value should be within you. If a girls actions effect it i reccomend working on working on you. Your theory also means that you wouldn't date a woman who might not be wealthy enough to keep up with your lifestyle. That's concerning but your choice
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong even if you tried. The point here is, I have standards as well and you seem to think that a woman must be monetarily stable enough to date me. Stupidity aside, it's the gesture that is important. Of course I'm going to judge someone who doesn't invest into my standards, just as they will judge me when I invest into their standards. That's dating in a nutshell. After all, that's the whole point of finding an idea partner.Yes, we wouldn't date, not because I think you are poor or anything. It's either because you give the vibe of being too traditionalist, lack initiative or in worst cases, I find you too pretentious (which I doubt). I do judge harshly to be fair, but if that is what it means to find happiness, I wouldn't mind taking the scenic route.
@Nivinxus a person who makes a "gesture" with no intent to follow through is just a fool. So really, its not about the gesture, because no one, regardless of differing standards, is particularly fond of a fool. But then you go onto agree with my point. My dating approach is very traditional. Not because it "works" or its "right", but because it reflects me. And THAT is the biggest reason people dont have successful relationships. They aren't real. so I'm confused why thats a "disgusting" thing to you? Just because other people do things outside of your immediate world that you don't get doesn't mean your judgement is appropriate or warranted. Unless it directly effects you, i dont see why the condemnation. A world of only people like yourself with only your opinions seems... limiting.
Gesture with no intent... I stopped reading right there because you seem blind to the point I'm making. Whatever, let's just agree to disagree because it appears you and I seem to have different way of conveying the message.
So does that mean if he wants to have sex on the first date you let him? Because that is what I'm getting from this. You expect him to pay on the first date and act traditional but after that you will split things. So guess that mean on the first date if he pays then you're ok with him demanding sex from you? I didn't think so.You are a hypocrite. You expect men to treat you like you are special because you are a women when it is in your favor but when it is your turn to play a more traditional role you don't want to go with it. You're literally asking for special treatment. The best thing is your last line shows how hypocritical you are. "It's not much of a partnership if you're unwilling to take on some of the responsibilities." Which is exactly what you are doing avoiding responsibilities in a relationship ie paying your share of the date. Let me guess you call yourself a strong independent woman too?
@LeoLionEye traditionally men wooed women and women waited for marriage. So your traditional shit just went out the window. Also, I did say this. "However, after the first date I have no problem paying half or he pays for dinner and I pay for the movie or whatever. "So how exactly am I a hypocrite? Just said I'd pay my share didn't I?
Yeah but you won't on the first date. You even said "I absolutely expect a man to pay for the first date." So it's mandatory for guys to pay for you on the first date. Sorry but that makes you seem entitled. And in turn it makes you a hypocrite because you believe a man owes you something (paying your share of the date) while on a date, but you however believe you don't owe a man anything on a date. That makes you a hypocrite and seem very entitled. As well as if you think you are better them men and they owe you something. Why if there is no second date? Guess you just used the guy for a free meal then.
I agree with ur statement. The guys who take offense are just broke and self centered and expect everyrhing to be handed to them with no effort.. if im asked out on a date i will expect him 2 pay, i will sometimes offer and just because there isn't a 2nd date doessnt mean u use someone for a meal it just so happened it didn't work out.. its not intential. Most men are gentlemens and always offer to pay its these irrogant men that get on here n say ur a prostitute for a meall. Heck i buy peoples food all the time.. around here someone pays for a random persons meal its called paying it forward.. if i invite my girl. Friend to eat i will buy her food because i asked her to go.. if she dont have the $... these men are literally complaining about having to spend 10 or 15 on some food for a woman is absolutely disgusting.. that shows me you dont want to put forth any effort into me.. if im not worth a 10$ meal your not worth my time.. simple as that
@MeganForreal It isn't about the money. It's about the principal. Why do you consider your time more valuable then a guy's time to the point that you feel like he must pay for everything just to spend time with you? I don't care what you think of me and think I'm cheap or not a gentleman because I know you don't know me and that you are wrong. That and because you're opinion doesn't mean anything to me since you just come across as a woman who feels entitled to me. No man wants that. So from where I'm standing you're the undesirable one. Also only $10 on a date? And you call me cheap and broke haha.
Gosh ur pathetic.. u really are u have to be insane to come up with ur logic.. 10$ im cheapp. No your cheap for not wanting to pay.. most sit down restraunts is 10-15 as on first dates ur normally not going out to a super nice place.. i dont think my time is more valuable i actually dont think that at all. I was raised that the man works and the woman stays at home n raises the kids.. i am old fashioned im 35yrs old and every date i have ever beem on in my entire life the guy has always paid.. even when i did offer at times.. only 1 did a guy ask me to go dutch.. which i ovetlooked because i wanted to give him a shot but then he started whining about 5$ in gas and that i needed to drive my own car to his house which proves my point.. men like that dont want to put forth any effort at all.. and thats not my type.. you are outnumbered if you haven't looked throuvh this thread almost all men say they pay.. so im not the minority here u are and ur attitude..
@LeoLionEye you're right about everything you said
she sounds like an awful person.. shouldn't be friends with her in my opinion
@MrNameless after that night, I ended the friendship. I don't believe in using people
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The point of offering, is showing that you're considerate, it has nothing to do whether money come out of your purse or not
No it’s not. Courtesy is shown through politeness and behavior. How is offering to pay when you know you aren’t going to courteous? Courtesy is displayed on the date, not on the check.
Oh I definitely think that you should always be able to pay. I'm not saying you'll offer just for the sake of it. But if you didn't expect to pay for something you enjoy, you shouldn't be doing that thing
Also if I initiated she better not even touch that fancy shmancy purse.
I mean, if a girl expects that I have to pay for a date, that technically means she thinks I have to pay for spending time with her.. that's not how relationships work. At least not in my opinion. It's a two way street.
I completely agree. If the woman doesn't offer to pay her share she was not raised correctly. If the man doesn't pay for her he was not raised correctly. There is a lot to be said in the offer. He raises a good point when he mentions the fact that the first date is the most polite this person is ever going to be. There is a lot to be said about how someone acts on their first date. This is when the red flags are the most important to catch.
I love those bits too and yes we need to watch for red flags that show a person’s character. I live everything he says here - like how he says you should be treating your partner like your best friend and you wouldn’t expect your best friend to always pay. I also loved his talk about if she can’t contribute equally (eg he earns a lot more and wants to take her to nicer places than she can afford) she should still try to contribute. I love how he says it’s not about the money it’s about the lack of gesture. I always offer, all guys I have dated will decline the offer on the first date and pay. But next opportunity to pay I usually do, some guys are not comfortable with it.
I can’t believe that woman was dating that guy for 4 or 5 months and was arguing with him that he should still pay for everything!
Catch 22, women don't ask men out.
I asked out my ex so... I guess that's not always true
Just because women dont ask you out doesn't mean they don't do it. :)
Strong confident, assured women ask men out.
I agree, the person who invites the other pays. In Chile the phrase "I invite you to..." implies that I pay for it.
The vast majority of women don't openly ask men out. So your point isn't too strong.
@StickStickity13 Too bad you haven't met such women.
@pleasestopthis Why would I? I can ask out women myself. Works for me.
That's the thing, most women have asked a guy out before. In all my life, I have asked out 3. One being successful. When i did go out on that date, I ended up paying for the two of us to see a movie and get dinner. He offered to pay, but I said no. The next date was initiated by him, he reached for the bill, I offered to pay, he said no and paid. That's how it should be. After that most of our dates were held at one of our houses so it didn't cost either of us anything.
Maybe from your observations, but most men have never been asked out. Not necessarily a bad thing but you're just basing it off your observation.
My observation? I am a woman, I'm basing it off my own experience. If you're going to accuse me of basing my opinion solely on observations at least take into account that your opinion is also based on observations since you can't speak for every man.
Look at the amount of men who say it never happens. I could ask a question right now and the vast majority would say they never have or at most once in their life especially if they're older. It's just a rare thing.
Men on gag are hardly representative of the entire male population. You have to take into account different languages, countries with poor internet access, and the fact that most of the people who are online on a random app on any given Friday night instead of going out are those who may have more time on their hands because they may not be the kind of people who get asked a lot.
And time zones. There are several factors. Honestly any statistics gathered from this site are hardly evidence of anything because there's no way to account for all the variables.
If you had to guess, what percentage of all initiating is done by women?
Ask just about any man, anywhere. I guarantee that the vast majority would agree with me. I am very confident with that, because in MOST cultures, MOST women take the passive role in dating. There are tons of stories, resources, and examples that I can search with a google search.
I have no idea, but I know that doesn't make my point irrelevant. There are plenty of men who have told me they prefer a women who isn't forward because it gives the idea that they are "easy" obviously I dont take that to heart and most women probably don't either. To suggest that I am scamming men into paying for my food simply because the majority of initiating is done by men is ridiculous. I have never been asked out by a man first, I've always been the one initiating when I found i liked someone. Keep in mind my opinion is not THE set guide on how to do things. If you want to do it differently then fine, but I initiate a lot so this is a method that works for me and it ends up being completely equal and fair.
Tons of women take it to heart. It's a very common theme. What I said was for the majority of women. Women simply initiate less frequently than men. A significant number never do. Those are facts. There are no numbers denying this. Yes YOU might ask men out, but you're the exception rather than the rule.
I think you fail to realize you are the one who replied to my comment talking about myself and what works for me. I literally answered the question with my opinion and your only argument against it is that that's just my opinion. Well no shit it's my opinion, because that's exactly what it was intended to be. Since when is my opinion the guideline everyone should follow?
I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to the idea of "who asks, pays" I see that comment a lot and I pointed out that some women do that, then never ask anyone out. Which makes it a catch 22
It's not a catch 22 you have no idea who I am and how often i ask out guys. Again, these are not rules of thumb that absolutely everyone will use. This is my opinion that I have formed based off of what works for me, and if it turns out to be completely equal even though the majority of women dont do the same then why is it a problem? Why aren't you supporting women who ask out men if it's something you care so much about?
Once again, for the last time, it's a catch 22 in general for most women. I don't care at all if women initiate. I can initiate myself. I just point out nonsense when I see it.
That's the thing, never once in my post did I mention it was applicable for all women. But it is applicable for me, stop acting like you have a moral high ground here. You went into this and criticized me because you didn't know me, you "called out my bullshit" when you were just assuming that I am just like most women. That is not something to take pride in.
I criticized the notion in general, I am focused on the idea itself, not you.
Yeah, yet instead of making a separate comment on why it generally doesn't work you decided to comment on mine and start this huge debate.
Because I saw the comment, and I posted. This is a forum of sorts. I have the right. You can block me if you want. I will not lose sleep.
I'm not going to censor you, I don't believe in that. You can comment what you want but don't think it won't be criticised.
You can criticize it all you like.
I'm done, it's too late to argue. Agree to disagree?
I'm glad I didn't have to take that class, I'd be braindead half an hour in.
I second her statement..
Taken care of? So basically you're a lazy shit that's essentially no different to a prostitute.
She said she thinks a guy should pay for the 1st date and i agree if a guy asks me out i will expect him to offer.. because thats how i was raised and man i know act like gentlemen so thats what im use to and thats what i like.. just becwuse its not your style doesn't make us. prostitutes
A guy paying for a first date doesn't mean he's a gentlemen.You not offering to pay or split does mean you're just a tosser.
😂😂😂😂 so I sell sex if I have old fashion views when it. Comes to dating? Got it's not like I have the capability to take care of myself and I am taking care of my self and I have a job but because I like dominant men I'm a prostitute... ok and I guess we know who lacks the capability to support himself or a family if he has one and his wife will definitely wear the pants but hey some women like weak or submissive men
A man's duty... right.
Men are supposed to care for women
I like your train of thought, and the reason that you can't afford it is perfectly fine, but if he offers to invite you after you gave your reason, you may as well accept the offer. (If it isn't too much)As much as I dislike it to be expected to pay for both at the first date, it's honestly annoying if we can't meet just because of 5€, and if I really liked you, I couldn't care less about such a little sum.
You don't have to put up with that.
@pleasestopthis They kinda do to tbh. It's not a risk worth taking, better to just pay and not think about it. There's a point where it's just too high a standard and you're cutting yourself off from too many women.
I think some guys get turned off because they're afraid the girl might turn out to be a leech if she never contributes to anything.
I get your point. But why do you ask someone for a date if you think negative even if you haven't get out with that person yet?
Because we want to date that person but it's hard to get out the back of our minds that she could be a leech. It's a risk we take. And the truth is well, a lot of girls are like that.
Well how can you know if not even started you already judge that person? Thats why some people relationships are unsuccessful coz of the questions in your minds what if?
Give people a chance , thats the only way you get to know the person do not be afraid to give chances thats the only way you learn
Id would say be ready either way it doesn't matter who pays on first date. If its a problem for the guy talk about it. Its about getting to know her as a caring friend and she should be thinking this way also and be ready to express that in all ways.