There are many women who blame men for the patriarchy and claim men have oppressed them and is the reason why they can't (insert list here). There are far more such women than there are incels.
Lol but you see what she did there, she ask a question about a fringe group of guys who hated women, then related the question to her own person life there by making my conclusions obsolete. See that’s why I don’t have much hope for girls understanding guys.
@cykasenpai That's because men created a patriarchy that stood for thousands of years. Places like Saudi Arabia still operate under a patriarchy. If you don't want women to blame men for creating a patriarchy, then you shouldn't have created one in the first place. There are more women who condemn patriarchies than Incels because there are very few Incels compared to the entire population of men, there are more women than men in the world, and all women were affected or are still affected by the patriarchal system men created
@Giggletr0n Lol I think I could handle vegans more. I had a lady cook me some vegan food on a yoga retreat one time that was delicious. She didn't judge me for eating meat either, so she is much more of a pleasant person to be around
@Benedek38 Lol I'm not a feminist. I voted for Trump. Your incorrect assumption is the reason why women don't like you. Don't accuse women of being something we're not
Nah. Trump has revived our economy and brought unemployment to the lowest its been in my lifetime. I've paid more than $5 a gallon less for gas than I did during parts of Obama's administration. I don't see anything wrong with that
Voting for Trump ia not an automatic red pill. Plenty of so called "traditional women" out there who act like they are traditional at face value, but are actually career oriented ice queens, practically the ÜberFrau™ imagined by radical feminists.
You're worse than a feminists - you're a feminist in denial.
"That's because men created a patriarchy that stood for thousands of years. Places like Saudi Arabia still operate under a patriarchy. If you don't want women to blame men for creating a patriarchy, then you shouldn't have created one in the first place. There are more women who condemn patriarchies than Incels because there are very few Incels compared to the entire population of men, there are more women than men in the world, and all women were affected or are still affected by the patriarchal system men created "
This is blabla language for "I blame men for everything!" which is the exact same thing incels do. The victimhood narrative is the same, we just don't persecute women for acting victims and crying. However, we do for men, incels and low-status men in general.
@cykasenpai Not in the slightest. I showed you a women who doesn't blame men for everything and you lashed out at women. I explained their reasoning because you're clearly deluded in understanding how society works
What are you talking about? Where is that woman? All I'm seeing is a woman who's blaming the patriarchy for all dat woman-oppression and then ironically claiming that incels are terrible for blaming the society for their troubles.
It's only through the eyes of your ideology that women are oppressed. Every time you look at the details, you'll find they reveal a more complex picture.
I'll give you two facts to chew on. One, men die overwhelmingly more in combat zones, including saudi arabia. The worst of the worst befalls men, not women. Two, if you ask Saudi women, they'll respond with a perceived happiness number that's higher than that of men.
@cykasenpai Men die in war zones because men cause war. Women do not cause war. We fight sociologically without the need for physical aggression. It is the fault of the Male anatomy caller testosterone that is the reason for men dying in war zones
You're seriously going to deny female oppression and then defend it by using the country that has the most? Why don't you just go there if you're so misogynistic?
"You're seriously going to deny female oppression and then defend it by using the country that has the most? Why don't you just go there if you're so misogynistic?"
Resist your emotional outburst. Please, respond to the fact that perceived happiness in Saudi Arabia amongst women is higher than that of men. Why is this the case?
@cykasenpai There's nothing emotional here. Accusing me of being emotional is your problem. Stop being misogynistic
I highly doubt the credibility of that. If it was published by someone in Saudi Arabia, then the results were most likely skewed. Until a year or so ago, Saudi women were not able to drive, and the consensus was that women were not happy about it
If the claim is that women are unhappy but men are unhappier, I would believe that. Men who don't treat women properly will never experience the treatment of a woman who truly loves and respects him. So yes, I could see those men being even unhappier in the overall unhappiness. But that does not mean Saudi women are happier than women in non-oppressive societies
Yeah. I meant what you wrote towards the end. Women in Saudi Arabia are happier than men in Saudi Arabia. It's almost a universal constant, by the way - women generally report being happier than men, except in the West.
I'm pleasantly surprised that you've also seen the statistics on perceived happiness. If I understand correctly, you're saying that the reason men's happiness in Saudi Arabia is lower than women's, is because their alleged oppression of women makes women not give them love. That seems contradictory to me. If women were so badly shaken by the rules of their society that they're unable to love, wouldn't their perceived happiness be lower than men? Why would men be hurt by this more than women? Where's the evidence that women in Saudi can't or won't love men in Saudi? Why, ultimately, if women are oppressed in Saudi, is their perceived happiness higher than men?
I'm not saying the rules of Saudi are perfect in any way. I don't think we should adopt them. But to look at only the formulation of the rules and conclude they are oppressive without neither you nor I having any clue about how ordinary life functions there, while also noting that the women themselves in Saudi aren't too unhappy with the situation, strikes me as a case of holier than thou.
This details the oppression women face in Saudi Arabia and describes how unhappy they are about it. Wen in Saudi Arabia are not happy. Men are just more miserable because everyone is
I never said women were happy. I said women were more happy than men, statistically. That's the only think I care about, because you're claiming Saudi is oppressive towards men (I assume by men) which is a silly claim when taking into account the fact that the supposed oppressors are less happy.
Being more content with life than your oppressor doesn't make sense.
That's because you've never been oppressed, so you wouldn't understand. Those women are forced to live this life, so they have no option but to live with it. But they can make the most of their situation for themselves and deprive their oppressors or what it is they truly want from it: obedience and love. A slave wife may sleep with you and cook for for you because you tell her to, but she will never love you or carress you or flavor your food with care. Those men are unhappy because they legally have everything they want, but it ultimately still deprived them of the emotional satisfaction. They're unhappy because they have the choice to give it up, but they've gone too far to backtrack now
Saudi men have oppressed their women, but in doing so they have also oppressed themselves. The men are less happy than the women because it was their choice to end up that way, and the women don't have to bear the guilt
It's a romantic take on it, with the women being silent victims who're fighting back in their own way, the guys having the short stick in the end. But it's pure conjecture with no facts to back it up.
No matter how you slice it, oppressors being less happy with a situation than the oppressed, goes against the definitions of oppressors and oppressed.
@cykasenpai You may think it's a romantic take, but I see it authentic. I know women and men from the Middle East and my ex was from there. He thought he could get away with treating me like crap and cheating on me because I prefer to be submissive and traditional in relationships. Ultimately he was the one who was unhappy because I left him for it. He never got over me and now I have a new boyfriend who is much more respectful and caring. He appreciates me more, so he will have my love for the rest of his life. If I lived in a society where I would've had to stay with my ex, I would've withdrawn from him and denied him love and affection
The definition of oppression isn't about happiness. Oppression is about control. But when you live in an oppressive society, everyone is oppressed, even the oppressors. It may not make sense to you and I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but it may help to look at political leaders. Hitler oppressed himself to the rest of the world by only giving himself the option for world domination or death. Kim Jong Un's uncle was a political leader there, but he was also oppressed because hs faced death by opposing his superior. When you give yourself ultimate power over another person, you destroy your own ability to have a real relationship with that person, therefore negating any sort of happiness you could derive from that oppression
Oppression isn't happiness; oppression is power. But power doesn't make you happy, it only gives you control
Your point about oppression not necessarily yielding happiness is a good one. I don't disagree with what you're saying about oppressive systems, I've heard North Korean leaders perpetuate theirs mostly because if they don't, they get shanked by someone else who is willing to. But I think your definition of "oppression = power" is where the issue with the Middle East lies.
We've deviated very much from incels by now, but having power over someone (regardless of how much power that is) does not equal an oppressive relationship. Parent-child relationships are the obvious example. Whether you have an oppressive system is really predicated on whether the checks and balances of responsibility and rights are properly set up. So for example, while women don't have the right to a job, they also bear none of the responsibility for providing an income to the family. From our high horses in the West, we see only the lack of a right and claim oppression. However, if your job is to manually extract minerals from a hazardous and toxic mine, working 16 hours a day, then it's unclear who's really 'oppressed'.
One thing you'll notice about Middle Eastern culture is that these systems aren't unilaterally propagated by men. The women are as staunch supporters of those systems as the men are. Either you think those women are brainwashed and stupid or you take a more nuanced approach (imo) and consider that those systems might have some degree of proper balance, given their particular circumstance.
Women is Saudi Arabia are not happy. Women in Iran are not happy. That's why they are trying to gain more rights for women
Your claim is that these women in oppressed societies are happy, but they're not. Simply claiming they're happier than the men isn't worth anything. Those men have plenty to he unhappy about
And yes those women are brainwashed by their religion and culture
> And yes those women are brainwashed by their religion and culture
Your sexism comes out clearly here. You assume that women have no agency and are sheepishly subjugating themselves to rules and regulations without anything to gain. Your presumption is that these women are unable to have any effect on society and that any opinions they voice in favor of the current system are the result of nothing but their own ignorance and weak will.
I'd like to say I'm surprised, but this is one of the pillars feminism stands on. "Internalized misogyny" is the polite way of telling women they're too retarded to assess their own situation.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
37Opinion
Show me a women who doesn’t blame men for her problem and you’ll have your answer
I don't blame men for my problems. On the contrary, my boyfriend has fixed many problems in my life
There are many women who blame men for the patriarchy and claim men have oppressed them and is the reason why they can't (insert list here). There are far more such women than there are incels.
Lol but you see what she did there, she ask a question about a fringe group of guys who hated women, then related the question to her own person life there by making my conclusions obsolete. See that’s why I don’t have much hope for girls understanding guys.
Found the incel. This is more fun then playing found the vegan
@cykasenpai
That's because men created a patriarchy that stood for thousands of years. Places like Saudi Arabia still operate under a patriarchy. If you don't want women to blame men for creating a patriarchy, then you shouldn't have created one in the first place. There are more women who condemn patriarchies than Incels because there are very few Incels compared to the entire population of men, there are more women than men in the world, and all women were affected or are still affected by the patriarchal system men created
@giggletr0n your comment just made my day 😂
@Giggletr0n
Lol I think I could handle vegans more. I had a lady cook me some vegan food on a yoga retreat one time that was delicious. She didn't judge me for eating meat either, so she is much more of a pleasant person to be around
So if there are more women than men in the world what stopping them from taking over everything? And ruling the world.
Aaaand she'a a briandead feminisr, with a white knight orbiter no less.
@Benedek38
Lol I'm not a feminist. I voted for Trump. Your incorrect assumption is the reason why women don't like you. Don't accuse women of being something we're not
Lol a women that voted for trump? You do realize that’s worst than incel
Nah. Trump has revived our economy and brought unemployment to the lowest its been in my lifetime. I've paid more than $5 a gallon less for gas than I did during parts of Obama's administration. I don't see anything wrong with that
Still does mean that girls hate that you like trump, and they will treat you as such, just like how people treat me
Girls hate me because they're jealous of me. Voting for Trump has nothing to do with it
Voting for Trump ia not an automatic red pill. Plenty of so called "traditional women" out there who act like they are traditional at face value, but are actually career oriented ice queens, practically the ÜberFrau™ imagined by radical feminists.
You're worse than a feminists - you're a feminist in denial.
"That's because men created a patriarchy that stood for thousands of years. Places like Saudi Arabia still operate under a patriarchy. If you don't want women to blame men for creating a patriarchy, then you shouldn't have created one in the first place. There are more women who condemn patriarchies than Incels because there are very few Incels compared to the entire population of men, there are more women than men in the world, and all women were affected or are still affected by the patriarchal system men created "
This is blabla language for "I blame men for everything!" which is the exact same thing incels do. The victimhood narrative is the same, we just don't persecute women for acting victims and crying. However, we do for men, incels and low-status men in general.
@cykasenpai
Not in the slightest. I showed you a women who doesn't blame men for everything and you lashed out at women. I explained their reasoning because you're clearly deluded in understanding how society works
What are you talking about? Where is that woman? All I'm seeing is a woman who's blaming the patriarchy for all dat woman-oppression and then ironically claiming that incels are terrible for blaming the society for their troubles.
@cykasenpai
Men were responsible for oppressing women when they had a patriarchy, and they still are in places like Saudi Arabia. That's a fact. That is history
Yes incels are wining about their pathetic lives and they need to stop
It's only through the eyes of your ideology that women are oppressed. Every time you look at the details, you'll find they reveal a more complex picture.
I'll give you two facts to chew on. One, men die overwhelmingly more in combat zones, including saudi arabia. The worst of the worst befalls men, not women. Two, if you ask Saudi women, they'll respond with a perceived happiness number that's higher than that of men.
@cykasenpai
Men die in war zones because men cause war. Women do not cause war. We fight sociologically without the need for physical aggression. It is the fault of the Male anatomy caller testosterone that is the reason for men dying in war zones
You're seriously going to deny female oppression and then defend it by using the country that has the most? Why don't you just go there if you're so misogynistic?
"You're seriously going to deny female oppression and then defend it by using the country that has the most? Why don't you just go there if you're so misogynistic?"
Resist your emotional outburst. Please, respond to the fact that perceived happiness in Saudi Arabia amongst women is higher than that of men. Why is this the case?
@cykasenpai
There's nothing emotional here. Accusing me of being emotional is your problem. Stop being misogynistic
I highly doubt the credibility of that. If it was published by someone in Saudi Arabia, then the results were most likely skewed. Until a year or so ago, Saudi women were not able to drive, and the consensus was that women were not happy about it
If the claim is that women are unhappy but men are unhappier, I would believe that. Men who don't treat women properly will never experience the treatment of a woman who truly loves and respects him. So yes, I could see those men being even unhappier in the overall unhappiness. But that does not mean Saudi women are happier than women in non-oppressive societies
Yeah. I meant what you wrote towards the end. Women in Saudi Arabia are happier than men in Saudi Arabia. It's almost a universal constant, by the way - women generally report being happier than men, except in the West.
I'm pleasantly surprised that you've also seen the statistics on perceived happiness. If I understand correctly, you're saying that the reason men's happiness in Saudi Arabia is lower than women's, is because their alleged oppression of women makes women not give them love. That seems contradictory to me. If women were so badly shaken by the rules of their society that they're unable to love, wouldn't their perceived happiness be lower than men? Why would men be hurt by this more than women? Where's the evidence that women in Saudi can't or won't love men in Saudi? Why, ultimately, if women are oppressed in Saudi, is their perceived happiness higher than men?
I'm not saying the rules of Saudi are perfect in any way. I don't think we should adopt them. But to look at only the formulation of the rules and conclude they are oppressive without neither you nor I having any clue about how ordinary life functions there, while also noting that the women themselves in Saudi aren't too unhappy with the situation, strikes me as a case of holier than thou.
@cykasenpai
faithwentz.wordpress.com/.../
This details the oppression women face in Saudi Arabia and describes how unhappy they are about it. Wen in Saudi Arabia are not happy. Men are just more miserable because everyone is
I never said women were happy. I said women were more happy than men, statistically. That's the only think I care about, because you're claiming Saudi is oppressive towards men (I assume by men) which is a silly claim when taking into account the fact that the supposed oppressors are less happy.
Being more content with life than your oppressor doesn't make sense.
@cykasenpai
That's because you've never been oppressed, so you wouldn't understand. Those women are forced to live this life, so they have no option but to live with it. But they can make the most of their situation for themselves and deprive their oppressors or what it is they truly want from it: obedience and love. A slave wife may sleep with you and cook for for you because you tell her to, but she will never love you or carress you or flavor your food with care. Those men are unhappy because they legally have everything they want, but it ultimately still deprived them of the emotional satisfaction. They're unhappy because they have the choice to give it up, but they've gone too far to backtrack now
Saudi men have oppressed their women, but in doing so they have also oppressed themselves. The men are less happy than the women because it was their choice to end up that way, and the women don't have to bear the guilt
It's a romantic take on it, with the women being silent victims who're fighting back in their own way, the guys having the short stick in the end. But it's pure conjecture with no facts to back it up.
No matter how you slice it, oppressors being less happy with a situation than the oppressed, goes against the definitions of oppressors and oppressed.
@cykasenpai
You may think it's a romantic take, but I see it authentic. I know women and men from the Middle East and my ex was from there. He thought he could get away with treating me like crap and cheating on me because I prefer to be submissive and traditional in relationships. Ultimately he was the one who was unhappy because I left him for it. He never got over me and now I have a new boyfriend who is much more respectful and caring. He appreciates me more, so he will have my love for the rest of his life. If I lived in a society where I would've had to stay with my ex, I would've withdrawn from him and denied him love and affection
The definition of oppression isn't about happiness. Oppression is about control. But when you live in an oppressive society, everyone is oppressed, even the oppressors. It may not make sense to you and I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but it may help to look at political leaders. Hitler oppressed himself to the rest of the world by only giving himself the option for world domination or death. Kim Jong Un's uncle was a political leader there, but he was also oppressed because hs faced death by opposing his superior. When you give yourself ultimate power over another person, you destroy your own ability to have a real relationship with that person, therefore negating any sort of happiness you could derive from that oppression
Oppression isn't happiness; oppression is power. But power doesn't make you happy, it only gives you control
Your point about oppression not necessarily yielding happiness is a good one. I don't disagree with what you're saying about oppressive systems, I've heard North Korean leaders perpetuate theirs mostly because if they don't, they get shanked by someone else who is willing to. But I think your definition of "oppression = power" is where the issue with the Middle East lies.
We've deviated very much from incels by now, but having power over someone (regardless of how much power that is) does not equal an oppressive relationship. Parent-child relationships are the obvious example. Whether you have an oppressive system is really predicated on whether the checks and balances of responsibility and rights are properly set up. So for example, while women don't have the right to a job, they also bear none of the responsibility for providing an income to the family. From our high horses in the West, we see only the lack of a right and claim oppression. However, if your job is to manually extract minerals from a hazardous and toxic mine, working 16 hours a day, then it's unclear who's really 'oppressed'.
One thing you'll notice about Middle Eastern culture is that these systems aren't unilaterally propagated by men. The women are as staunch supporters of those systems as the men are. Either you think those women are brainwashed and stupid or you take a more nuanced approach (imo) and consider that those systems might have some degree of proper balance, given their particular circumstance.
Sorry for the long-windedness by the way.
@cykasenpai
No it is absolutely necessary
Women is Saudi Arabia are not happy. Women in Iran are not happy. That's why they are trying to gain more rights for women
Your claim is that these women in oppressed societies are happy, but they're not. Simply claiming they're happier than the men isn't worth anything. Those men have plenty to he unhappy about
And yes those women are brainwashed by their religion and culture
> And yes those women are brainwashed by their religion and culture
Your sexism comes out clearly here. You assume that women have no agency and are sheepishly subjugating themselves to rules and regulations without anything to gain. Your presumption is that these women are unable to have any effect on society and that any opinions they voice in favor of the current system are the result of nothing but their own ignorance and weak will.
I'd like to say I'm surprised, but this is one of the pillars feminism stands on. "Internalized misogyny" is the polite way of telling women they're too retarded to assess their own situation.
In short yes.
l dont like them
For the most part.
I blame the feminists.