Is it true that women can't have kids after 35?

[nella965]

[ODC2112]

Female fertility begins its decline after age 30 as shown by van Noord-Zaadstra et al. (1991). This decrease is not linear at the beginning it is very slow, after the age of 35 it begins to accelerate as shown by Menken, Trussell & Larsen (1986). Towards the age of 40 the possibility of conceiving is reduced by 50% as shown by Toner & Flood (1993), after the age of 45 the possibility of conceiving is practically reduced to zero. This comes from the change in the quantity and quantity of oocytes as can be read in te Velde & Pearson (2002) or in Nikolaou & Templeton (2004).

References
B. M. van Noord-Zaadstra, C. W. Looman, H. Alsbach, J. D. Habbema, E. R. te Velde, J. Karbaat, Delaying childbearing: effect of age on fecundity and outcome of pregnancy, British Medical Journal, 302 (1991), pp. 1361-1365
J. Menken, J. Trussell, U. Larsen, Age and infertility, Science, 233 (1986), pp. 1389-1394
Nikolaou, D., & Templeton, A. (2004). Early ovarian ageing. European Journal of Obstetrics & Gynecology and Reproductive Biology, 113(2), 126-133.
E. R. te Velde, P. L. Pearson The variability of female reproductive ageing Hum Reprod Update, 8 (2002), pp. 141-154
Toner JP, Flood JT. Fertility after the age of 40. Obstetrics and Gynecology Clinics of North America. 1993 Jun;20(2):261-272.

[nella965]

According to the video, female fertility at 27 is 86%, it only reduces down to 82% at the age of 37.

[NorthShoreCalling]

Isn’t accurate research supposed to be within the last 10 years since it’s forever advancing?

[ODC2112]

@NorthShoreCalling Your question leaves me quite dismayed, as if biology changes in the short term. Differently from what you think these are the standard data, in 10 years the biology of the human female does not change. The incontrovertible effect of ageing on female reproductive function is most notable in the decline in ovarian function. Science always advances to discover new things, non-new things for which there is a scientific forum are not investigated further because they already know each other.
At the demographic level, on the other hand, there is a decrease in fertility starting from 25-30 years and a net collapse in fertility after 40-41 years for women.
However, in recent years there are more and more cases of widespread early infertility, due to various factors such as Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, Premature Ovarian Failure, High levels of the hormone Prolactin, Obesity (BMI> 30), Psychological Stress.

[NorthShoreCalling]

I don’t see how, learning changes the way we approach things all the time! Many medical treatments have changed and advanced due to new emerging discoveries. You speak as though science has always had all of the answers when any scientist knows things are always moving forward... there are many other factors that rent genetic that reduce a woman’s chances such as the paternal age of her partner etc too, I’ve done enough reading to know that experts on the topic have somewhat varying thought on it due to varying complexities involved.

[ODC2112]

@NorthShoreCalling Did I mention medical treatments? I have not talked about biology and I have cited authoritative sources. Biology does not change. You don't like these sources, well show me evidence that they are wrong with equally authoritative publications.
If you can't understand the difference between biology and medicine, there's no point in arguing.
The literature I have cited does not speak of couple infertility, but of female infertility. As the question is about post-35 female fertility. Couple infertility is a whole other discussion and it is off topic to this question.
If you want to waste time trying to change the arguments, with meaningless discussions because the evidence goes against your ideological vision, free to do it, but not with me.

[nella965]

According to the video, female fertility declines only 5% from age 27 to 37, I wouldn't say there is a huge decline. The risk of defects going from 0.5% in your 20s to 1% in your 30s, is also not a very a significant increase.

My mom had me at 37 and my brother at 40, we both still turned out fine.

I believe that all the hype about female infertility is exaggerated.

Overwhelming majority of women can have a high chance of giving birth to a perfectly healthy baby up until 40. Sure risks go up, but its really not as terrible as people like to exaggerate it to be.

I'm living proof you can turn out perfectly fine from a late birth.

[shalt]

It's fine till they hit 45, then the % of likehood to have a baby with a genetic disorder increases incrementally until menopause, then it's basically all shot. But there's still a small chance. Just like pre-cum for men. Small chance

[Screenwriter]

There are risks after 35 that don't come up before 35, but with testing while in early pregnancy, you can avoid most fetal catastrophes. But chances are still very low until a woman hits her mid 40s.

But face it, do you WANT to be running after a toddler at 44? Attend high school graduation at 60? Finance college and grad school for your kid after your retirement? These are very practical issues that should be thought through before it's too late.

If you're marrying in your 30s, decide on child bearing and living on one salary for a few years while kids are toddlers... there's THAT too! Save like there's no tomorrow so you can send your kids to college or trade school and finance your retirement.

Most women of all practical childbearing ages, 18-45, have fine outcomes.

I had my son at 39 and had an easy pregnancy and delivery. He's goofy, but that has nothing to do with bad genes. He's 25. I did get chorionic villi sampling to search for Down's Syndrome and other genetic tests. Passed. Wish there was a goofy test though. No such luck.

[nella965]

sometimes you cannot decide on when you get married.

[btbc92]

NO! And none of that other lies either. 35 is still young. But past 40 and your somewhat risking it. It depends on the woman. Some end up with problems much younger and some much later. It is about your genetics and how healthy you are as well as who you get pregnant by. Sometimes your not compatible with who you have sex with. And may with another. However, only YOU can look out for you in that regard. If you don't check out how many eggs you have left it can get harder and remember that the older you get, the health of your eggs as is a man's sperm declines too.

[The_Maphio]

Completely and utterly false.
Only problem is, while women are young, their bodies are (generally) supple and elastic, thus having a 3kilos bump in the oven doesn't mean much in term of issues.
As age goes, they hit the famous "wall". They start losing their attractiveness (which reduces the chances of being knocked up by a guy), their bodies start losing elasticity (which would leave marks on their bodies for the stretching caused by said bump) and their uterus change shape and size, which could cause deadly complications for them, and higher percentages of malformations in the child.
That doesn't mean that's 50/50 healthy child or freak, but things are not surely as simple anymore.

[nella965]

what do you think of the video?

[The_Maphio]

That it's accurate, but none of my points are denied by it. If anything they state that the danger of miscarriage increases too, which I didn't list, and that could have nefarious effects on the mother's body. And sometimes mind. As I said, it's not a 50/50 chance. Far from it, but more attention is definitely in order.

[nella965]

my mother had me at 37 and my brother at 40. we both turned out fine.

[nella965]

it all depends on the woman , her health, and the way she takes care of herself.

[The_Maphio]

What exactly in "As I said, it's not a 50/50 chance. Far from it, but more attention is definitely in order." is difficult to comprehend? And if any of you came out botched, do you think your mother would have forlorn you? Unlikely. You'd still be borked though. That's the point.

[nella965]

well i didn't come out autistic or botched, I'm living proof that women in their late 30s can still have healthy babies. It all boils down to how the woman takes care of herself.

[The_Maphio]

Mother nature doesn't spare no one though. Taking care of yourself doesn't do squat for what regards the regular decay of the human body with age. Don't confuse things like personal care with bodily functions. We are not machines that you can fix the functionality of by swapping parts.

[nella965]

ok. so how did my mom have me at 37 and my brother at 40 , but we are still fine?

millionare Robert Herjavec's wife who is 44, also recently gave birth to healthy twins.

[Screenwriter]

I have no stretch marks of any kind. I was 39. It's completely according to the woman. I rode a horse when I was 5 months pregnant. Walked, biked, swam. But six to nine months, I was exhausted.
The uterus change in size is a normal change for pregnancy. There is no risk in that. That's why you have a flood of hormones.
The risk of Down's is still 3.4% for women age 45. But IF you're one of that three, well, that's worrisome. There are OTHER genetic issues to test for if anything runs in your family.

[elvitto]

No. It is not true, they generally can (but not all of them). However it is not very recommendable for a woman to have kids after that age, because the likelyhood for the child to be unhealthy "skyrockets" after that age, (but still chances are the baby is healthy). My mom was 39 when I was born (we are twins) maybe due to some of the anomailes which are more common in pregnancies at older ages.
But there is a sad true: women's body deteriorate very quickly compared to that of men when it comes to reproductive capacity.
Love to all the women out there ! You are freaking brave and worth taking care of.

[nella965]

what do you think of the video

[elvitto]

The video is good, they made good points. But they made no reference to any scientific paper or study. (I might have missed a link or something, I don't know)
It is a serious topic, the best way to address it is by looking for info and reading.
I am 26 now, and i feel pressure when I consider dating a woman my age. I haven't achieved any kind of financial stability yet, and these women are often already thinking about settling down and forming a family, which is good. I desire that as well, but I just don't have resources yet (haha, men feel pressure as well but differently). I am an ambitious guy, I don't think this is my right time to create a family. I am attracted to a girl who is my same age, so I meditate about all of these things.

[nella965]

they actually did make references to sources. Its in the white words posted on the screen , if you just pause it.

[ashley_85]

It's not true that women can't have kids after 35 it's not recommended that women have children very long after 35 because for every year after 35 that you become pregnant your odds exponentially increase of having a child with some kind of genetic disorder

[nella965]

It only goes from 0.5% risk to 1% risk. Not that much. My mom gave birth to me at 37 and my brother at 40. We both turned out fine.

[ashley_85]

The risk is actually higher than that for every year after 35 that you age I have a degree in nursing so I know of what I speak.

[nella965]

Even if it’s higher than 1% after the age of 37, the chances of it happening is still small. Nobody ever said your chance of having healthier offspring increases as you age

[modelUN242]

Well, it’s gonna be harder to bounce back into that pre-pregnant body. Plus, you’d look like a grandma for your kids and probably act like one (you won’t be as active). Also, the chances of having a “weird” baby goes up. I know many autistic children with mothers who had them late.

[nella965]

did you watch the video

[modelUN242]

Yeah, it’s propaganda

[nella965]

they have links to references to sources as evidence in the video.

[modelUN242]

I don’t care, I’m 21, I’m NOT waiting to have a baby at 30-35. It’s a waste of what you were born with. I don’t need to be spoon-fed this “scientific” video to know that promoting motherhood in your 30s is just a form of feminism.

[nella965]

whats so wrong about giving birth in your 30s? My mother had me at 37. I plan on having kids in my 30s too. So that I can have fun in life, build my career, so that i can have decent income to raise my kids well. Once those kids come out, I won't have time to pursue my hobbies or build my career. I want to raise my kids WELL.

[modelUN242]

Explain “having fun in life”? Also, you’re likely to get stretch marks that don’t heal and a C-section. Was your mother able to bounce back to her previous body?

[nella965]

what makes you think women in their 20s, don't develop stretch marks, or gain weight during pregnancy? Your body's ability to bounce bank is all based on your genetics, not when you gave birth.

and whats more important:

enjoying life before you get tied down forever or never having fun in life until you're 65 and retired? the time you're 60, do you think you would still have the energy to party, go on vacataions? I don't think so.

I'm not gonna raise my kids on a tiny salary either. I want my kids to have a good decent upbringing where we can go on happy family vacations, feed them the best food, dress them with nice clothes, be able to pay for tutoring if they need it, buy them the toys and games they want, be able to pay for ANY COLLEGE they want to attend.

All these things are much more important than having a hot body. Your hot body will eventually get old anyways.

[nella965]

my mother was not a tremendously vain woman so she wasn't worried about how her body looked. But

Her body was fine and healed well after a C section when she gave birth to my brother at 40.

[modelUN242]

It's common sense, what makes me think that? Why do you think you're more attractive in your 20s compared to 30s especially for women? It's your biological clock that determines that, not this feministy culture you're brainwashed by.

And I don't believe in that genetics bs, it's also lifestyle and eating habits too. And I don't think you're vain in not wanting to look bad after pregnancy. I know women who blame their pregnancy on why their body looks like shit, which is pretty vain to me.

[nella965]

More American women are having babies in their 30s than their 20s

www.marketwatch.com/.../american-women-are-having-babies-later-and-are-still-conflicted-about-it-2017-05-19

More women are having babies in their 30s than in their 20s and studies suggest it's healthier in the long run

But studies suggest that women who wait until their 30s to give birth may be healthier later in life, live longer, and earn more income. They'll also be more likely to have twins.

www.businessinsider.co.za/watch-more-american-women-are-having-babies-in-their-30s-than-in-their-20s-and-studies-suggest-its-healthier-in-the-long-run-2019-7

[nella965]

I'm sorry but I care more about my own health and how my kids are raised rather than trying to look hot to attract men outside of marriage. Your priorities are wrong.

[modelUN242]

Look hot for men outside of marriage? Excuse me? Don't twist my words. I'd want to look good for myself and my husband. Also, autism and other mental illnesses have also increased, because it's correlated with older mothers. Also, I'm pretty sure older mothers tend to be helicopter parents and overbearing for the child.

[modelUN242]

Also, you don't need to spoil your kids.

[modelUN242]

And your idea of "having fun" in your 20s is getting drunk and sleeping with a lot of guys while on the pill? Wow, you're really doing your future kid a favour.

[nella965]

so why would you rather dump your chances of making decent income, dump your opportunity to explore the world, dump your chances to date around to find the best husband possible, dump your chances to make new friends / meet new people , just so that you can preserve your "hot body" as long as possible?

is it really worth it to tell your kid that you can't afford to send him to college, because you chose to have kids earlier , just to preserve your hot body for longer?

you don't sound like a decent woman with the right priorities.

why would you throw everything away to look hot anyways? trying desperately to attract other men?

[nella965]

reality is, your husband is gonna stay with you regardless if you still have that sexy body or not. there's no real reason why you would so desperately want to maintain that hot body. Unless you're trying to seek other male attention.

[nella965]

For me, there is more to life than having a hot body at 40. I'd rather enjoy my youth 20s, explore the world, travel, learn and build my career, build decent income so that I can give my kids a decent upbringing, date around so that I can find the right man to marry.

These are life experiences that I want.
At the end of my life, I want to have done everything, raise my kids well, enjoyed friends, traveled around the world.

I don't want to be full of regret knowing that I have done little to nothing in my life, never traveled, never had a career, gave my kids a subpar childhood because we were too poor, never made a lot of friendships. All I have done is to entertain my husband with my hot body.

Don't you see how ridiculous you sound? Is your vanity and hot body , the only thing that matters to you most in life?

[modelUN242]

The "hot body" is still not guaranteed, if you read what I said, diet and lifestyle are also a big factor. And I know girls around my age who are married and work, and still able to balance it with a kid. And I don't want to waste my time "having fun" dating, I don't find pleasure in that. Women in their 30s are much more jaded and desperate because they "had their fun".

Why are you obsessed with "being hot" all of a sudden, you sound like a broken record. I only mentioned it once. Are you that self-conscious of yourself? And no, AGAIN I DIDN"T SAY I WANTED TO ATTRACT OTHER MEN. You're the one who wants to sleep around. I have already found someone anyways and he would be my first and only.

I don't want to be some ugly fat woman who blames it on her pregnancy. I don't want to let myself go and blame it on my pregnancy. Honestly, I think you're that self-conscious of your own body because you keep nagging about the hot body lol. I never even said hot body.

You'd probably nag and spoil your kids and be an overbearing old mom. I know old moms like that and their kids are autistic.

[modelUN242]

And you're the one who asked "Is it true that you can't have kids after 35"? You already have a subconscious bias about that, you know deep down that you can't really.

[nella965]

"And you're the one who asked "Is it true that you can't have kids after 35"? You already have a subconscious bias about that, you know deep down that you can't really."

My mother birthed me at 37 and my brother at 40. So I VERY WELL know women are capable of birthing after 35. The reason why i asked this question was to disprove the culture of hating on women over 35, for not being able to birth kids. And of course to show the video as evidence.

From what you have written, you don't sound like a decent woman. No decent minded woman would ever dump her chance of making better money so she can give her kids a better childhood. No good mother would be happy telling her son that he shouldn't ever go to college because she can't afford it. No good mother would enjoy telling her son that he should just deal with failing in school because she can't afford to hire a tutor. No good mother would ever be happy forcing her children to grow up wearing second hand clothes that have been used up / worn for years by their cousins.

Before you go accusing other people of being bad people, why don't you fix yourself? you clearly won't be a good mother.

[modelUN242]

You’re materialistic. I know people who grew up without those things and are happy. And you’re mom birthing you is why you have this bias? You know fertility rates are plummeting every year. Bad food, birth control, chemicals, etc. are causing it. And maybe you might be a bit autistic from the sounds of it because you keep sounding like a broken record. A smart kid doesn’t need a fancy tutor, expensive clothing, etc. to succeed. You’re a bad mom for SPOILING you kid and potentially raising a brat.

[nella965]

I grew up being poor. As a 5-6 yr old, I had to walk 10 miles to school on a daily basis because our family could not afford the bus fare. I did not get my first smartphone until I was 21 years old. I never got a single thing I wanted as a kid. The answer was always no. Every time we walked into the supermarket, we could only buy the things that were on sale. I could not have candy, treats, etc.
I didn't even attend a university I really wanted to study at because my parents couldn't afford the immense tuition. My family never got to enjoy a nice restaurant meal because my parents were too poor. I never had any nice clothes, electronics, video games. While other kids were able to go on vacation, have fun, go to summer camp, I had to work part time jobs to help my parents pay the rent.

This is not called being spoiled. This is called giving your child the NECESSITITES for a decent childhood. Kids need more than food and water to grow up. It takes money to raise kids, you can't raise kids without money. You're feeding cheap food to your kids while my kids get to eat the best food. They are going to grow up into strong, healthy adults. Your kids are going to be stunted in growth and nutrition. How about that?

And you do not have to make fun of my fertility. Because my mother had both my brother and I in her late 30s / 40, and I still turned out better than you did. HAHA

[nella965]

You don't have to shit talk on my kids because my kids will be college educated, hold great jobs, have high paying careers. On the other hand, your kids won't be going to college or obtain a higher level education. Because you simply can't afford to pay tuition.

Don't feel sorry for me. I feel sorry for you

[modelUN242]

You sound dumb to me lol. It’s common sense that you’re kids would become much better when you have them earlier and you don’t understand science. Welp you just made fun of me assuming that my kids are going to be starved nutritiously, uhh they’re not gonna have an old hag as a mom... lol.

And find a man to reproduce first instead of dreaming. At least I got a man.

[nella965]

there's nothing stunted, or disabled is not me. The one who is stunted and disabled is YOU. Because you obviously aren't a decent person with the right priorities, not being able to provide well for your kids won't bother you.

I turned out wayy better than you did. And guess what? my mother birthed me at 37.

You're living proof that giving birth early in life really won't mean better offspring.

[nella965]

"And find a man to reproduce first instead of dreaming. At least I got a man."

At least I will marry the best man ever. You only settled for an average joe.
I'm picky with the quality of man I marry. On the other hand, you will just marry absolutely anyone.

[modelUN242]

My mom gave birth to me at 22 and lol I would be in way better shape than you. At least she had lots of energy to take care of me. And by the way, I wasn't deprived lol. You're just making assumptions and excuses.
Every autistic kid had an old-ass mother. You should probably check you know, in case.
Lol this is the second time, a whore told me this. I'm not going to be sleeping with every average Joe like you. And you'll only end up with a simp because good-quality men don't like whores lol!! by the way, I'm a virgin.

[nella965]

Your mother had you at 22. And you grew up to be someone who finds it more important to maintain your hot body rather than to make enough money so that you can take care of your children as well as possible. You find it better to have never worked a career in life , never traveled, never made any friends, never pursued any hobbies simply because you want to have kids as early as possible, especially at a stage in life where you aren't even financially ready to raise kids well.

so how am i the autistic one? you're the autistic one with the wrong priorities. You're the one who is the terrible mom.

Do you ever think about what you say rather than just constantly name calling?

[nella965]

My parents raised me into a responsible young adult. I have no intentions of leeching onto my husband for his hard earned money. I intend to be the best mother that I can be for my children. This means I will work hard to give them everything they need to have a decent upbringing. I'm not like you where you think its more important to retain your "hot body" instead of focusing on raising your kids well. I have always focused on my education, work hard on my career to make my own money. I'm not a leech like you.

My mother birthed me at 37 and I still turned out into a better woman than you

[modelUN242]

No you didn’t, you turned out to be a whore who just wants to have their fun in their 20s. That’s pretty selfish. And my mom worked dumbass. And I know young moms who work as well. You’re a broken record literally spewing out nonsense. I hate traveling and materialistic stuff, and see it as a waste of money. So of course you’d need loads of money to spend on useless crap.

[modelUN242]

Also, you can still travel, have friends, have a career having kids. You think everything stops when you have kids? Wow, you’re dense.
Also, the more sexual partners a woman has the higher chance for divorce so I don’t see your kids having a bright future for a whore as a mother.

[nella965]

you can't travel easily while having kids.
How would you feel about going to africa, with 3 infants and toddlers who constantly need your attention?

And being as uneducated and broke like you, would you even be able to afford to hire a nanny to care for your kids while you are on vacation?

Why would you not build decent income before having kids? You're not even afraid of your kids not having enough. You take pride in being poor and depriving your kids of a college education, having fun etc.

why would you prioritize having a hot body over raising your kids well? are you basically saying that women have no intrinsic value other than popping out kids and being sex dolls? this is a very misogynistic way of thinking. Women are worth way more than just giving birth and being sex dolls. This is why I am a better, more decent person than you.

So quit your immature name calling.

I'm not going to divorce my husband. Not everyone who had sexual partners prior to marriage divorces. But I'm pretty sure that your kids won't be heading to college , if your family is broke as fuck.

[modelUN242]

Why would I want to go to Africa? People from Africa want to come to the West because it sucks there? I'm not uneducated or broke, stop making assumptions lol. And I have family that would be able to do so. Myself and my brother pay for our own college education and our parents help a bit. We're not deprived. Plus college doesn't guarantee you a job as you can see, so you don't necessarily need it to get a good job. Especially when 80% of the population is educated, they still end up working menial jobs. Do you actually think college guarantees you a job lol? It doesn't. Plus, my family is very frugal, we don't spend money on useless things so instead of being overly materialistic, you can still afford college.

You're not better than me, because I don't give my bodies so easily to men to use for sex. I actually value it and believe it should be for my husband, not for random men. And being fit is also good for your health, and you have a better chance of living longer. And you sound like an SJW on this misogyny crap, I'm tired of hearing it.

[nella965]

Having kids while you are extremely young with an underdeveloped career will lead to a lack of sufficient resources to raise kids. Its been proven that married couples that are college educated, tend to stay married longer, have more successful marriages, and their kids have better childhoods.

Yea, how are you going to pay for college working a minimum wage job? A likely scenario for you to send your kids to college, is borrowing 100k in college loans, which you all will never ever be able to pay back.

Sure, college won't guarantee you a job. But you can definitely take pride in telling your child that they shouldn't ever go to college and that they should stay stuck working at McDonalds for life.

[nella965]

The findings are yet further evidence of the marriage gap in the U. S. along educational lines.

College-educated adults are more likely to be married than less-educated adults.

Among those who were ages 25 and older in 2014, 65% of those with a bachelor’s degree or more were married, compared with 53% of adults with less education, according to a Pew Research Center analysis.

While the research does not address reasons these marriages last longer, we do know college-educated adults marry later in life and are more financially secure than less-educated adults.

While more-educated women have the highest chances for a long-term marriage, college-educated men also stand out.

Roughly two-thirds (65%) of men with a bachelor’s degree could expect that, if they marry, their first marriage will last 20 years or longer, compared with 50% of men with a high school diploma or less.

In addition, men with a higher level of education are more likely to get married in the first place when compared with less-educated men.

www.pewresearch.org/.../

[nella965]

The experience of economic instability causes increased material hardship, particularly when families lack personal assets. Low family income negatively affects children's social-emotional, cognitive, and academic outcomes, even after controlling for parental characteristics.

What Are the Effects of Various Types of Instability on Child
Development?
Economic Instability
 The experience of economic instability causes increased material hardship, particularly when
families lack personal assets.
 Low family income negatively affects children’s social-emotional, cognitive, and academic
outcomes, even after controlling for parental characteristics.
 Children’s cognitive development during early childhood is most sensitive to the experience
of low family income.
 Literature on the effects of economic instability on child development is limited, though
there are bodies of literature on economic instability, and on the relationship between
poverty and child development.

www.urban.org/.../...ment-A-Research-Synthesis.PDF

[nella965]

There’s no denying that money plays a significant role in a marriage/relationship. Money problems are commonly stated as being the 2nd highest cause of divorce in the US (ranked just behind infidelity). While it is ranked as being the leading cause of stress in a relationship.

www.moneyforthemamas.com/financial-stability/

[modelUN242]

Don't you know colleges will become outdated? You're living in the past. A bachelor's degree is the same as a GED. A job in the trades is much more well-paying because the market is less saturated. Also, I plan on being a homemaker and working on the side for my boyfriend's company which does pay pretty well. I don't want to become desperate and bitter in my 30s and asking myself, "where have all the good men gone"? I'm in college currently doing a program in the trades because I know that a university degree is going to be useless especially the program I was doing before. I also have a lot of investments and save a lot from working part-time.

And those studies saying that college-educated people get married, well, they also forgot about religious people getting married (and are much more likely to). College-educated women have a harder time finding a guy especially the more educated they become, their options become limited.

I also saw a study saying modern women are less unhappy nowadays because of juggling a career and kids. They are also less satisfied in the marriage.

[nella965]

Do you think every single person wants to work in trades?

trade jobs are typically dirty, physical labor, and tend to be difficult to maintain when you hit older age such as in your 40s-50s. And plus, its usually folks who couldn't do well in school who pursue trade school. College degrees tend to pay more than trade jobs, generally speaking.

Not everyone wants to pursue trades. Physical labor is not something everyone can do. Especially if you're thinking about working until 65.

Especially if religious people like you tend to want to be stay home moms, while your husband was 25 when you both had your first child. I can definitely tell that your family will suffer financially to a very very big extent.

[modelUN242]

Lol, I did very well in school but I didn't like how brainwashed colleges are. I was miserable because the liberal professors don't allow you to express your opinions. Plus, a lot of what they teach you, you can learn from the Internet. Also, my friends from university are having a really hard time finding jobs in their fields (they're in engineering) and might have to do more schooling (take more debt) or do a menial job.

Well, I don't want to do a sedentary job where I'd end up miserable and fat. At least a trades job makes you more active. And my boyfriend is 29 and is very successful in his career as well as financially.

[nella965]

I saw that you just mentioned in another comment section that you didn't do well in college , which was why you decided to move over to trades. Your parents wanted you to go study a high paying career but you just academics just wasn't for you. From my experience, nobody wants to go into trades. Its only people who couldnt succeed in school, who go into trade school. The work is very dirty, dangerous, physical labor, which could mean that you will have a hard time supporting your family when you get older.

No sophisticated 29 yr old will be interested in dating a kid who can't be trusted with alcohol yet. I have worked with professional sophisticated men who make 100k+ at accounting firms / investment banks who honestly have no interest in dating a kid.

You may not realize it but you are just a kid.

Federal law doesn't trust you with alcohol until you are 21.

Federal law also makes it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to buy a gun from a licensed dealer.

Federal law also requires all police officers to be at the least age of 21.

What kind of a "cool guy" would be interested in a kid whose mental development isn't even fully grown?

[nella965]

Your lack of concern towards financial aspect of raising a family shows your lack of life experience. Any fully grown adult who has been responsible for paying their own bills , expenses, making their own money would understand the importance of having sufficient money to raising children.

You don't seem to care or understand what it takes to be a good mother either. You care more about your hot body and yourself over your own children. This is the typical mentality of a kid / child who hasn't grown up.

Lets see grown adult women have children. Not kids have children.

[modelUN242]

Okay, so you're stalking me lol? Uhh no. You know how shitty the education system is? It's easy to memorize random shit and regurgitate it for a useless degree. Okay, and those sophisticated men don't want you lol, cause you're cocky I suppose? And, I'm not a kid lol, I'm 21. And the legal age where I live is 19. I don't drink anyways because it's stupid.

And there are many stupid older people nowadays, look at the Boomers. Don't discriminate me just because I'm younger than you. At least I have my future set up. And, I think you're just jealous that I was able to find someone and you weren't. And, I'm pretty smart for my age, that's why I'm able to connect with older people.

[modelUN242]

Plus you literally said this, "I am more likely to believe that a 28-30 yr old man would have feelings for a 22 yr old girl."

[nella965]

Because I was 20 years old , once upon a time. I remember when I was 20, I knew almost nothing, still reeking of immaturity. 22 is a big step from 20 years old. 22 is not 20. A lot of development goes on in those few years. But different people mature at different paces. You may be 20 years old but only have the maturity, life experience of an 18 yr old. From the way you write, I can tell that you have never survived all alone in the real world. You have no concept of financial obligations / responsibility. You are also not aware of how difficult a job it is to be a parent. You also have the wrong priorities. Its clear that your kids are not your first priority.

I suggest that if you want to be a decent parent, you spend a few more years growing up and learning about the real world before you have kids.

I feel sorry for your boyfriend because having a "kid" who doesn't know anything as a wife , will only add to the burden of raising a family. When modern men look for wives, they are not looking for an additional kid to raise. They are looking for a grown woman to partner up with , in order to raise his children.

[modelUN242]

I’m 21 not 20. And growing up is not experiencing life with other men lol. My boyfriend says I’m pretty mature for my age and even more so than women his age.
And, you sound like a child asking this stupid question, why even having your first kid after 35? Why not 27 or 28? At least your career is still established.

[nella965]

There is a difference between maturity and life experience. Both are not the same things.
You must understand how the real world works and what your priorities should be , if you want to be a decent parent and wife.

From the way you write, it sounds like there are many many things you don't seem to understand about life and the real world. And the well being of your kids do not sound like your first priority.

You don't come on here and argue that raising kids without much money is completely fine. Because reality is, kids cost A LOT of money especially if you are deciding to have more than 1 child.

No parent would ever brag about saying "No" to their son who wants to go to college. Or depriving their child of the things they want to pursue in life. Or limiting their child's options to only trade schools. A decent parent would always want to give the best to their kids. The fact that you are not concerned about giving the best to your kids, its shows immaturity.

Dumping your career early in life so that you can have kids in your 20s, with no care towards the financial aspects of raising a family, just so that you can preserve your "hot body" longer regardless of whatever consequences your kids may face shows your priorities are completely wrong.

It really doesn't sound as if you understand how much money it takes to raise kids. Ultimately you seem more concerned about yourself and religious tradition than the realities of parenting.

The problem with religious people is that girls as young as 18-20 are forced to marry their first boyfriends, becoming mothers while they are still kids themselves, who do not understand how parenting works, or how the real world works.

[nella965]

On the other hand, if you were to tell me :

"I prefer to have kids in my 20s and I understand that kids will be a very big financial responsibility and will do whatever it takes for my kids to have a decent upbringing, even if it means working a job after birth."

You don't insist that money doesn't matter to raising kids. Or that limiting your child's opportunities in life is OK. Or that your biggest reason for having kids earlier is so that you can retain your "hot body" for longer.

This is why I don't see you as a mature, fully grown adult.

[nella965]

Maturity is not defined by the way you behave, it is determined by the way you think, your priorities, and how much you show responsibility.

Just because you can act like you're 40, it really doesn't mean that you are mature.

[modelUN242]

Okay, you just sound bitter and resentful. Well, good luck finding a man when you're in your 30s, I doubt there would be a good selection tbh.
And, uh, I do know that children cost money, I'm not stupid, like duh.
I'm sorry, I'm not going to take advice from someone who asks if women can have children after they're 30. If you were happily married for let's say 30 years, you would have some credibility.

[nella965]

For the First Time Ever, Thirty-Something Women Are Having More Babies Than Their Twenty-Something Counterparts

slate.com/.../...than-women-in-their-twenties.html

Yea... if nobody were marrying 30 yr old women, then why are more women in their 30s having kids than women in their 20s?

[nella965]

I'm definitely not resentful here. You're the one who is resentful because I have evidence of you being immaturity and foolish. You wrote what you written. And it serves as proof of who you are. I have no reason to be resentful and bitter. If you were a mature young lady, then i would respect you as a mature young lady.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

No, not true. My grandma was age 39 when she had my Uncle on December 17, 1952
but then again my cousin age 35 just had a miscarriage, she was pregnant in the tubes and they had to remove the baby and the tubes but I believe she still has one tube to allow her to make eggs not too sure?

[genericname85]

no, that's not true generally. in rare cases, age related sterility can happen as early as 29 years old. most women are still fertile in their 30s. only at 41, 50% of women are biologically sterile or in otherwords infertile. but some women are still fertile into their 50s.

[Curmudgeon]

It becomes much much harder, and eventually the answer is YES. It varies from woman to woman, and 35 is NOT a magic number, but do be aware that the clock is running if that is something in which you are interested.

[nella965]

I'm definitely not worried because women can still have kids up to 40. I still have plenty of time. My mom gave birth to me at 37 and my brother at 40. We both turned out fine.

[Anonymous]

The children are less attractive and have many more illnesses like asthma and other pussy traits. plus most women over 35 are less attractive and it is harder to get them pregnant. most need to be inseminated like cows using turkey basters and hobo sperm

[nella965]

More American women are having babies in their 30s than their 20s

www.marketwatch.com/.../american-women-are-having-babies-later-and-are-still-conflicted-about-it-2017-05-19

[Opinion Owner]

that is a shame, out future generations weill be gentically inferior to those in the rest of the worlb

[nella965]

we won't because we have the best education, well fed kids here. In other countries, kids starve, do not end up finishing up school, can't pay for school.

[Opinion Owner]

i specified gentically inferior. your response ignore that

[nella965]

who cares about the rest of the world being genetically suprieror if their kids starve, lack education, lack many basic childhood necessities? they won't ever be better than us

[Opinion Owner]

they already are and they will be more resistant to disease and stronger and survive hardship more easily

[nella965]

modern medicine also makes up for it. Too bad in the rest of the world's poor countries, they don't have the access to modern medicine like we do.

[Opinion Owner]

yes that is too bad but medicine can't fix dna/genetic issues caused by an old woman having babies

[nella965]

it actually can. Old people are living longer than ever before due to advances in modern medicine.

[Opinion Owner]

genetics dont work that way. have kids early to avoid issues. also you'll have your pick of guys if you marry younger. I dont trust 30+ year old girls. they are looking for someone to pay for there children. no thanks

[nella965]

I'm gonna give you the harsh reality right now. Most girls in their early to mid 20s have no intentions of marrying. So even if you try to date a 23 yr old girl, it isn't likely that she will want to settle down with you.

[nella965]

you can definitely try to only date 23 yr olds. but just keep in mind , overwhelming majority of them are not looking to get married any time soon. You will only find yourself single at 40.

[Opinion Owner]

i am not concerned with ever getting married or having children. i am cautious of 30+ year old women though because they are and they are used up like dried up prunes

[nella965]

well there are more 30 something yr old women having babies than 20 yr old women. so it means that men are still fucking them and wanting them

[Opinion Owner]

those men are loser and these old hags are getting sperm from hot alphas like me from the sperm back

another thing to consider is that many guys wil dump their load in an old 34 year old women but never marry her

[nella965]

Put a Ring on It? Millennial Couples Are in No Hurry
Young adults not only marry and have children later than previous generations, they take more time to get to know each other before tying the knot.

www.nytimes.com/.../...x-relationships-dating.html

[Opinion Owner]

i dont click on links to the nytimes. that is a shitrag

[nella965]

nytimes is more legitimate than you

[Opinion Owner]

shitrag

[EternallyCorrect]

Blue anon is correct about genetics.

[Opinion Owner]

@EternallyCorrect science doesn't matter to the left except when they are trying to say that the right doesn't believe in science

[nella965]

It only goes from 0.5% risk to 1% risk. Not that much. My mom gave birth to me at 37 and my brother at 40. We both turned out fine.

[Opinion Owner]

Have you gotten married yet?

[nella965]

I believe I am too young for marriage.

[Opinion Owner]

you better hurry. tick tick tick

[nella965]

I think you better hurry because in 5 years when you hit 40, you're gonna be too old to get a young woman to be interested in you. Only women in their 30s would be interested in you

[Opinion Owner]

Why are you hitting on me? We wouldn't get along after the sex was done

[nella965]

I wouldn't have sex with an old man that im not attracted to either way

[Opinion Owner]

yes, i believe everything that you say. that is why you keep coming back here, for my attention

An old mans attention. Dont hate yourself for the way you feel, its natural to want it

[nella965]

its unbelievable how desperate old men can get for a young woman's attention. Maybe thats why you're unmarried? No woman wants a perverted sex digger.

[Opinion Owner]

you would have sent me nudes if i wasn't anonymous. please try to control your urges

[Opinion Owner]

Why are you in denial?

[nella965]

I think you’re in denial

[Opinion Owner]

Were you on vacation?

[Feelicks]

They can, but the instances of problems goes way up in the last year's of fertility.

The extended period of neoteny our society has conditioned people to accept is not particularly helpful. You don't want to be paying for your kids college when you're 50 or you'll have nothing to retire on.

Thankfully death is a good alternative retirement plan. It seems like when I become to infirm to work I'll get the old bridge and river pension.

[MarkRet]

Women can have kids after 35, but I’ve heard that after 35, there’s an increasing chance the kid could have Down’s Syndrome, or something like that. That happened to Sarah Palin with her youngest kid.

[nella965]

It only goes from 0.5% risk to 1% risk. Not that much. My mom gave birth to me at 37 and my brother at 40. We both turned out fine.

[FilmGuy93]

The health risks just go up. The risks to the mother, the risks the the baby; the chances that they pregnancy won't be healthy goes way up as women get older.

[nella965]

what do you think of the video?

[FilmGuy93]

It's interesting that the 35 number came from Renaissance France, but it doesn't really change my answer. I never said that women hit a wall and lose all their fertility right at 35, after all. Natural aging takes its toll.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5264372/

[Screenwriter]

What you say is true. But the risks STILL remain low for older mothers. You gotta be on life support , in a coma and 65 to have extreme risks. Then machines do the work because of technology. 60 years ago even that didn't work.

[nella965]

according to the video, the risks go from 0.5% to 1% chance of birth defects etc

[FilmGuy93]

So what? Humans are meant to reproduce; this is pretty well understood. There's only 7.5B of us on planet Earth.

[Astarlessnightsky]

No, but the older the woman are the more risky pregnancy becomes and the more difficult it gets to become pregnant, and 35 is the magic number, when these things are becoming significant.

[VanillaSalt]

No it’s just as they get older it’s harder to attract men, it’s harder to get pregnant, and if they get pregnant they have a higher chance of complications.

[Ms_Vanderquack]

No, it is true however that it is harder to conceive, and the risk of birth defects go up with age.

[warrenstone]

My mother had me at 39 and all it did was give me an oversized penis (because at the age the testosterone levels in the womb are at an all time high) ... the more you know.

[NorthShoreCalling]

🤣🤣

[MasterOfReality]

No, a woman can have children up to menopause. But the risk of having a child with Down’s syndrome increases after age 35... Them eggs get old and go bad.

[nella965]

according to the video, the risks only go up from 0.5% to 1% chance of birth defects. 1% chance of birth defects is not very high.

[MasterOfReality]

The older you get over 35, the higher the percentage gets.

[nella965]

1% is not that high

[MasterOfReality]

True, 1% not high. But the older you get over 35, the higher it goes.

[nella965]

in the video it says, that its only 1% risk in your late 30s compared to your 20s

[MasterOfReality]

Look at the graph. It goes way up past 40, but you are right.. not terrible in late 30s.

www.cdc.gov/.../data.html

[nella965]

how far can it go up from 1%? Even 8% is a very slim chance

[NorthShoreCalling]

Same with men and producing offspring with schizophrenia, bipolar, learning difficulties & autism etc. Men don’t seem to understand the paternal effects of age. If a woman the same age as him had a baby with a younger male, their child would have less chance of these too, it actually works both ways. The speed is also his organ that grows in her, so he needs to be healthy (young enough) to prevent miscarriage etc too.

[NorthShoreCalling]

*placenta (not ‘speed’)

[nella965]

@NorthShoreCalling Actually it doesn't. An older woman with a younger man having a baby , the baby will still be at higher than average risk. But it really doesn't mean that things will always turn out terribly. Most of the time, it doesn't turn out badly.

It only goes from 0.5% risk to 1% risk. Not that much. My mom gave birth to me at 37 and my brother at 40. We both turned out fine.

[IveGotNoName]

Generally having a baby at ages 40 to around 50 (but probably more like 45) comes with greater probability of genetic disorders. After 50 it's unlikely a woman can conceive

[jasco]

No not all. The chances of not being able to get pregnant usually stop somewhere around 50. It starts going down around 35. However men, well some men don't date 35 and up due to child related reason's but that's not all of them

[OddBeMe]

there is a natural “drop off” in egg production or some shit in women. But not impossible. Oh and guys can become less “potent” as they age. But biology just likes men better. Sorry...

[nella965]

just because a man can still have kids at 50, it doesn't mean there would be young women who want to have kids with an old ugly dude that age.

[OddBeMe]

Very very true. I just meant as far as fertility, I think women have shorter time limits. But it’s wheneve4 menopause hits.

[jshm2]

No.

But a lot are going to get murdered by their kids/thrown into dirty homes, because they did so.