I won't have sex til im “in love” which is different from just loving them. We have to be committed and in love. I used to be all for waiting til marriage til i hit mid twenties so I don't know about that now. But the goal at the time was to see eachother naked sometime before we marry to see if we like what we see. I get that we may not like how eachother “feels” when it comes to the sex itself, but at least seeing what we’re getting ourselves into was that main thing that would determine how far we go. I say that because, if i dont like how the dick looks, I’m not gonna wanna fck it or suck it. And im not referring to the size but just the overall feel of like the skintone of the shaft, if he's circumsized or not, how big his balls, if the tip is too pink or not, and stuff like that. Belly also plays a roll cause i dont wanna feel suffocated if he has a beer belly or something, and so on. And like if he doesn't like how my boobs or vagina looks, then he has the right to not wanna marry it. I know it all sounds shallow but we have to be with eachother for a long time (if not forever) so its only fair that you marry someone you find both mentally and physically attractive (especially naked)
To answer your question, yea its more convenient
I don't think it sounds shallow at all, I think for it to be shallow would require no deeper connection being wanted if the people liked what they saw, ie only caring about the physical aspect is shallow but caring about that and the mental is not.
I just think since it's so much faster to determine, that the physical should be examined first because it saves however long one might invest in a mental dud that leads no where or a mentally compatible person thats physically unattractive.
Yea i agree. Thats part of why i hate when guys send dick pics because i’ll judge before i even know them. Like just save it for in person when we’ve reached the time ready for that
When i'm asked for dick pics I usually just send pictures of characters named dick, reactions vary, but I find it hilarious every time.
Lmao
It almost seems like people who care about the entire person, rather than just looks or just personality, are rare on this site.
Most questions go unanswered by most of the community though so I'm ignoring poll results, but it has been interesting to see reasons why someone might think what they think.
I agree and thanks for mho
Very good
How is it more convenient?
I think it sounds awful.
I fall for a person. How they think, speak, what they say, how they smell, etc etc.
What they look like naked isn’t part of the initial attraction, and doesn’t feature in the early dating phase either.
The initial? Are you sure? it takes about 3 years on average to figure out how a person thinks or acts in any situation and detect any lies.
Do you usually spend that long on each possible spouse option before seeing them naked?
That leaves a very limited amount of chances to date someone if you only live to 100. How on earth can you find the right match with such a small dating pool?
The way I see it, is see them naked first, spending 3 years getting to know a person only to not get aroused by them is a good way to make friends, but not a good way to find a spouse.
Very limited thinking you have….
Like I said, I don’t need to first see someone naked. That’s not how people are. They want to connect with someone. However, if you’re shallow, and need to see a person unclothed before you decide if you like them, fair play.
I’m much more about meeting up, chatting with and getting to know the person I’m falling for.
Unlike others, I don’t need to sleep with them on the first date to assess their appearance. Where you got all this 3 year BS from I’ll never know….
No. You already know a person's body type when you see them, and if you like their posture and overall charisma that's really all that you need, most birthmarks or flaws that you can't see will be acceptable to you if they don't make a big deal out of it. Basically we intuitively know right away what the person is like physically as we interact with them face to face, which is enough, I mean if you actually see everything about the person you like right away you're more likely to lose interest, cuz what's more to see, you know? Mystery keeps you thirsty for someone in my opinion.
All that would do is make most people even MORE shallow and MORE unrealistic about what they expect in a partner. Tinder has done far too much damage in that area already.
I don't think it would, it's not like most people are going to continue to date a person after seeing them naked and not liking it.
This would just avoid awkwardness of having to call it off after investing so much time dating.
I do not agree that having looks as a requirement is shallow, nor do I agree that a person is entitled to dating someone just because they are nice. like it or not, physical attraction does matter, it's what separates bests friends from spouses.
@MrOracle, you are only trying to argue against that because you don't see women as people, you don't treat friends like family.
How is it shallow to want someone who is mentally and physically compatible? shallow is when you are NOT picky, and sleep around without caring about the consequences. Shallow is when you don't care about their mind enough to want monogamy or shared hobbies and interests.
Caring about looks does not equate to ONLY caring about looks.
I also don't agree that you can influence desire, if you think that hiding looks until later will stop it from impacting the relationship, or that sexual attraction preferences aren't dictated by the viewer's genetics, you are the one who is naive.
Also categorizing people on a numbered scale is stupid, what is or isn't attractive or aesthetically pleasing is extremely subjective, there is no such thing as a 10 thats not someone else's 1.
and vice versa
Seeing someone's naked body has exactly ZERO to do with seeing them as a person or with their personality. That's my whole point.
And? what of it?
I don't see how thats related to being shallow.
It's like saying a person doesn't care about gameplay in a video game just because they also want appealing graphics.
Why are so many people "one, or the other" types.
I want both.
@aliali8 That's like blaming a news reporter for CAUSING an event they're reporting on. I didn't create the biology behind age-related value - I'm just explaining it so that women (hopefully) learn to take advantage of their situation when it would most benefit them.
Here's WOMEN talking about this situation. Are THEY "trying to devalue women as they hit 30", or are they just acknowledging the reality? Why are they talking about it if it doesn't exist, and has to be created (by me, apparently)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II3c267XIM8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQFMiE3nRWY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbsiOZGQg1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8sZXTQgMN0
Is this all me? Really?
@MrOracle
Its also BIOLOGY to be attracted with women with hotter bodies! Its human nature to be attracted to thin women with large breasts, huge hips. This is why the asker wants to see women naked prior to dating them. We are supposed to be attracted to hottest bodies in order to produce the best offspring. You're gonna say this is shallow.
But dating women purely off of looks , is not shallow?
you're just contradicting yourself.
@MrOracle
For the First Time Ever, Thirty-Something Women Are Having More Babies Than Their Twenty-Something Counterparts
www.pewresearch.org/.../
slate.com/.../...than-women-in-their-twenties.html
Watch: More women are having babies in their 30s than in their 20s and studies suggest it's healthier in the long run
www.businessinsider.co.za/watch-more-american-women-are-having-babies-in-their-30s-than-in-their-20s-and-studies-suggest-its-healthier-in-the-long-run-2019-7
@MrOracle
www.theknot.com/content/average-age-of-marriage
The 2020 Average Age of Marriage
In 2020, the average age of marriage for female participants was 31, while male respondents married at age 33. The average age of marriage in the US therefore falls at 32 years.
I actually have statistics and numbers to back up my claims. Not random individual rants on youtube.
@aliali8 Yes, more women are having babies in their 30s than ever before - but they're also STRUGGLING more than ever before. They're doing IVF, freezing eggs, and even using surrogates. And that BS about it being more healthy is crap - doctors have been saying for decades that having children later is riskier for both mothers and children, and the amount of things like food allergies and autism are at crazy levels never seen before - and not seen in cultures with younger births.
Anyway, if the Feminists have it right, why are so many women depressed? Why are so many unable to find a relationship? Why are so many 35+ year old women alone, even though they desperately want a relationship? Why are older women starting to warn younger women that there are big problems with what they've been taught? I didn't make any of that up - it's all around you. The only difference is that most of those articles are written by women, and they all blame MEN for these outcomes, when it was WOMEN who pushed for those changes, and WOMEN who made the choices.
I'm just asking women to take responsibility for the choices THEY made. Men have not changed the rules - women did, and now women are finding they don't like the results. Oops.
@MrOracle
Most women giving birth are the ones in their 30s. Most women that are getting married out there are in their 30s. So why are you desperately trying to make women in their 30s seem so undesirable?
My own mother married at 34 and birthed me at 37. She also birthed my brother at 40. ALL OF THE 8 COUSINS IN MY FAMILY HAD MOTHERS THAT BIRTHED THEM IN THEIR 30S. My mother's cousin also birthed her daughters at the age of 32 and 34 without IVF. Her daughters are 8 and 6 years old by today, all healthy.
so quit fucking going around trashing women because I have overwhelming evidence that proves you wrong.
Take your misogynistic woman hating shit else where.
@MrOracle A typical man around your age who looks like shit, would be terribly lucky to be able to get a 30 yr old woman to look at your way. A man who looks like shit trying to bash younger women for looking like shit. How hilarious.
I wouldn't date you in a million years, I have way hotter, younger, stranger young guys to go for.
@aliali8 Well, we know that when you can't defend your position, you switch to attacking your opponent personally. That's essentially admitting defeat. Anecdotal evidence isn't data, and you haven't answered my question as to why WOMEN are saying these things - it's not just me.
You can blame me if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the reality (and I didn't create the reality, I'm just reporting on it). Hopefully some readers will gain something from this, but it's clear that you aren't interested in learning anything, so I'm done here.
@MrOracle I have statistics and numbers that defend my position. If I have this on my side, I can attack you personally and yet I WILL STILL REMAIN CORRECT.
You have nothing other than a couple of personal stories on youtube. The last time I checked, data scientists are proving you entirely wrong.
Opinion
12Opinion
Not really no.
when in a relationship or married you really don’t see each other naked in a sexual setting as much as you do dressed.
I dated a girl, who when she was a teen had her breast and stomach scalded with hot water, it left her needing skin grafts and the usual scaring and marking from hot water on her breast and stomach.
She. Was however really pretty, great body as she did triathlon.
However, this seeing someone naked before you got in to a relationship, would be so shallow and a guy would miss out on an amazing girl.
At times the deal clincher that has made me want a relationship has been something minor, such as a little giggle at making a mess eating a cake or something else trivial.
this idea would instantly turn us in to a body orientated society faster than any social media could do.
on top of all that, I need the emotional connection as well, this means they could be as sexy as fuck, but without that link, it’s not happening.
i will never date a guy who insist on seeing me naked before dating me. why? because it also means that he's a shallow person and will be cheating once I gain weight after childbirth or grow wrinkles by age 40.
Your first priority should be finding a strong mental connection, not checking out hot how round her ass is. You clearly have the wrong priorities in mind.
You are incorrect. First priority should be looks because that takes seconds, if she passes that, it's shared interests, hobbies, likes, dislikes, and goals, which can take a few hours to ask about, then it's health inspection from a dr to check for infections because that takes weeks, then if she passes those, it's meeting in person and there is a smell test, then after that she has to pass a mental connection test spanning 3 years of getting to know her, because realistically speaking it takes that long to spot every possible lie they give me. then after that, a monogamous relationship is possible, then 1 year later of living as roommtes, if we still get along like two peas in a pod, sex and marriage is possible.
Another thing you are incorrect about: Sexual attraction is based on the viewer's genetics and has nothing to do with being shallow, the only people who aren't subject to this are asexual people, and they don't typically want relationships because best friends fullfill all non sexual needs already.
I for example care about looks, personality, hobbies, intelligence, likes, dislikes, habits, smells, and a laundry list of other things, if you only care about mental compatibility, then objectively speaking, that makes me less shallow than you are.
I would also never cheat on someone.
Also wrinkles are caused by damage that didn't get repaired, not from getting older.
Aging in looks is from disease.
@TheSpaceGnome If looks are so important to you, then you will no doubt cheat on your wife once she loses her looks. This is just the truth. Everyone will look old at some point in life. And no, aging is not related to disease. There is no 60 yr old that still looks 25. Wrinkles, white hairs, sagginess will eventually come. And if you're a husband who can't stay faithful to his wife because you're not attracted to her anymore, then you have no business being married.
This is why its so important to pick the right man to marry. There are a ton of "husbands" out there who cheat on their wives with the excuse that he's not attracted to her anymore. Imagine if your wife cheated on you because you hit 50 and there are way more hotter guys out there.
Sorry but you're completely wrong.
first off, I don't cheat, if a girlfriend was aging I would just stay with her and help reverse it like I've already done so for myself.
Secondly, aging is in fact entirely from disease.
As long as you start out healthy, it is possible to retain your first adult form indefinately, and aging does not happen in a healthy body (the problem is most people are both too poor and too dumb to know how to take care of themselves, and when they start aging they don't do squat about it, that and severe injury accidents, infections, etc.)
Your argument that it can't be done because it hasn't been done into centarian years yet is based on false logic.
It's like saying cars or computers can't exist, because at one point no one made any. It also ignores how people can look much older or younger than other people their own age, which, if you were correct, would not be possible.
The reality is, that healthy humans have indeterminent lifespans, and that things like wrinkles, age spots, joint problems, halrloss, mental decline, etc, are all from disease, not time.
Most disease is reversable.
First off, there is no "most important thing", there is the full person, picking and choosing traits of a person is dumb.
Secondly, I do know what I'm talking about, I've pulled off drastic aging reversal on myself just via diet changes and patience, so it works.
Thirdly, it's because people don't take care of themselves that that damage happens, humans only lived to just under 30 ten thousand years ago.. and they looked like most of todays 90 year olds at that age, and we keep living longer each generation because of better self care.
There is a jellyfish species that is biologically immortal, it can still die from being eaten though, or any other severe injury, infection etc.
Why on earth do you think that something would stay healthy no matter what so long as it's own body isn't destroying itself? thats absurd! the world around it does plenty to try to destroy it, and those who look younger while older simply avoide more of those dangers longer.
I'm 35, I look like I did at 14, but in my early to mid 20s, I looked like several of my sick 40 year old friends.
@TheSpaceGnome there will never be an 80 yr old who looks 20 , no matter how healthy they are. What you’re talking about is complete BS. My parents are in great health, but they still look 60. You can slow down aging but you can’t prevent aging
Did you know the sun accounts for 80% of aging of the skin?
Anyone choosing a partner based on "whats more important" is going to end up unhappy.
looks, personality, hobbies, beliefs, intelligence, comprehension skills, goals, desires, it's all equally important.
if your parents don't look like they did as young adults, they are NOT healthy.
Sorry, but there eventually will be 220 year olds that look 20.
its not if looks or personality is most important, it's all or nothing. and if one fades, you fix it, because you love them.
if you don't do everything to keep a spouse alive and healthy, I would suggest you don't love them, or are too dumb to know you can help.
show me an example of a gasoline car thats 20,000 years old.
the idea that something can't exist because it doesn't yet is stupid.
it has everything to do with it, it's something that exists now, but didn't for most of earth's history, and by your logic, that means it existing it was impossible.
you haven't proven they can't.
I'm 35, not 100, and people who study this are rare, and most are old sick people.
I will prove it when I'm 100
I have however proven that there is no such thing as "looking 18" or any age for that matter.
if you just ask everyone there age you easily learn that aging happens at drastically different rates for people, which means I'm correct.
i look now just like i did when i was 14
i looked the same from14 to 18, so I DO.
and thats despite rapid aging in my 20s! i reversed it! like i already said..
I do though, I'm not going to admit to something thats not true
Yes I am, and I don't need to, I already explained why.
If you don't understand why that doesn't matter after I spelled it out for you, than the first person who does it still wouldn't convince you, as you would just be denying their actual age when you saw them, just like you are doing for me despite never having met me.
What am I supposed to do? posts before and after picks with id and birth cirtificate on the internet? fuck off, I'm not risking identity theft just because you're an idiot.
It´s not easy to talk about but I´ve watched quite a lot of porn in my youth and that changed me in many ways.
I fear that I´d see her naked too soon I wouldn´t take her seriously but instead objectify her when ever I see her by never looking at her outfit but always have her nude in my mind.
So my answer is a clear NO.
Convenient? Yes, some relationships fall off after one of the partners find out some secret about their partner's naked body.
Yeah I think you know what I'm talking about.
The thing is how would this work in the first place, perhaps the answer to this might change if it's convenient or not (?)
Either way, I think it's convenient, yep.
No, body shape is ok important, so he should not be hiding in baggy clothes, but else naked bodies are normally not that special looking. I've never been negatively surprised about a man's naked body if I liked how he looked with clothes.
I like baggy clothing, it's breathable and comfy.
I also like women in baggy clothing for several reasons.
ok. enjoy that
The way I feel about someone emotionally strongly influences how I see them physically.
That sounds like hallucinating.
To a degree, yes. As much as people say otherwise, attraction includes a physical component.
I met my hubby at a trail-running event, he was wearing a clingy T shirt and compression shorts. I knew what I was getting. :-D
No clothes doesn't hide that much so you should be able to determine that with the clothes on. Besides who wants to strip in front of strangers and be judged as a cattle.
I don't agree at all, clothes do a great job at hiding lots about body features. I don't really ever interact with women who walk around in clothing so skimpy that you see everything.
Well I would say that I wouldn't date a woman that dresses up as big bags. I would just assume she is fat like a pig under that, that and I would want to date muslim women. Due to not wanting to deal with religion of any kind in a relationship. And regular clothes aren't hiding your body shape, I am not talking about slut outfits that doesn't leave anything for the imagination. It's strange that you would want to see her completely nude but wouldn't want to date her if she shows some skin. Are you a ferengi otherwise you are a hypocrite. Because do you know how many guys that will see her nude if something like this would be the norm? Next you probably want to get a free try in bed too.
I tend to prefer women who dress in baggy sweatpants and hoodies.
No it's not a horrible style, its comfy and looks nice.
nah, I think it looks cute af on women, especially when she has long thick hair and the hood is down and the sleeves and pants are a bit too long and slightly bell shaped at the end.
To me is dresses, or suites, or having tons of makeup, or jeans, or high heels are all bleh.
Maybe for guys.
It’s easier for girls to get a picture in her mind of what I guy looks like under his clothes once we’ve seen the outlines a few times
I don't believe that, girls can't see through clothing or guess random hidden features accurately.
No, I'd much rather let my imagination run wild building up the anticipation :) I see the female form in a casual setting then my mind runs rampant; it's VERY motivational:)
Should be Unconditional. Sexy no Matter What. xx
That ideal is unrealistic. What causes sexual attraction is automated, its a response to looking at someone thats dictated by the viewer's individual genetics.
People are attracted to what their genes force them to be attracted to, you can't influence attraction in people in any way, not through media, or religion, or moral arguments, or even logical debates.
Love is not the same thing as lust, lust has nothing to do with compassion or logic, its a reflex, kinda like when the doctor hits you on the knee with that tiny hammer and it forced your leg to move.
Sexual attraction happens without any say from the person that crotch is attached to.
A guy looks at someone, and they either get a boner or they don't, a girl looks at someone, and they either get wet or they don't, neither of them get to choose what shapes, sizes, colors, or movements cause that to happen.
Also lack of lust does not equal lack of love, people love their family, friends, kids, pets, etc. and those involve zero sexual attraction, so claiming I'm heartless is misplaced.
Just because you love someone doesn't mean they are a compatible mate.
I'm sure I'd like it, but it's not likely to be a deciding factor.
Well, maybe if she had a penis or something. Nothing personal, it's just that I already have one.
Hard to keep my interest regardless of it.
But it'd certainly save my efforts if I'm thinking of seducing them for good..
Being picky is a good thing.
Difficult is more like it
Difficult =/= bad imho
Okay
Should wait until both have reached a comfort level to want it.
I wouldn't be able to reach a comfort level to want them that way without seeing first.
Okay i didn't expect you to mean like day 1 @TheSpaceGnome … i thought you meant before marrying or something lmao
Unless you live in a nudist colony where people are nude 24/7, I don't see the point.
No because I don't chose the person I'm with based on what they look like naked.
It's a bit weird if that's what you base things on but look up Naked Attraction.
So lets make dating even harder you say. Well overpopulation problem does need a solution 🤔
That's not fair if this is the sole determining factor when it comes to dating them or not.
No it wouldn't be as exciting then and I'd feel awkward around them having seen them exposed
Why the fck would that be a dealbreaker?
For the same reason being straight makes a person not date the same gender as themselves. Or why best friends aren't sleeping with each-other just because they are best friends.
Why would it not be a dealbreaker?
No, I'm more interested in their face/personality
I personally don't see the point of picking and choosing features, I'd rather find someone for whom i like the face, personality, body, skills, talents, hobbies, sense of humor, comprehension skills, etc. essentially the whole person.
It's hard to find a perfect match so I'd rather see the visual parts first so I can skip investing time into those that my genes aren't auto attracted to.
I will know him first
that takes 3 years minimum though.
Lol at the guys saying yes and girls saying no.
No, Eww! Why?
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